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The AIH Transcript for November 30, 2017

Hosts: Rosemary Barton and Angeline Tetteh-Wayoe

Prologue

ROSEMARY BARTON: Hello, I'm Rosemary Barton sitting in for Carol Off.

ANGELINE TETTEH-WAYOE: Good evening, I'm Angeline Tetteh-Wayoe sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

ATW: Tonight…

RB: Out of the darkness, into the unknown. All members of the boys soccer team were trapped in a cave in Thailand are out and safe and our guest has some insight into what they could face now.

ATW: Robe to ruin. If he's confirmed, U.S. President Trump’s pick to fill a vacancy on the Supreme Court will be Justice Brett Kavanaugh, but our guest has a different honorific for him — Lord Voldemort.

RB: Pulled out by the roots. The end of Greyhound service in Western Canada has one Manitoba Grand Chief prescribing a new plan for getting sick people in northern communities to the health care services they need.

ATW: All they wanted was to drive home a friendly point. But a tractor trip across Canada in support of their fellow dairy farmers ends tragically for a couple from Ontario when an accident kills one and injures the other.

RB: Locked room talk. A burglar in Washington state winds up as angry as all get out when he finds he can't — because he unintentionally broke into an escape room.

ATW: And…Unplanned theft auto. A woman in Cornwall, Ontario leaves a rental place with one vehicle and returns two weeks later with another — to learn she's unwittingly become the prime suspect in a stolen car case. As It Happens: The Tuesday Edition. Radio that guesses it was the last car she returned, but it was not leased.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Thailand: Chilean Miners, Greyhound Update, Stolen Rental Car

Thailand: Chilean Miners

Guest: Héctor Tobar

ATW: There was celebration and immense relief today in northern Thailand. After weeks stuck in a cave, the last members of the boys soccer team were rescued. And when those four remaining boys and their coach were freed it meant a surprisingly successful end to the rescue mission involving dozens of divers and hundreds of others who showed up to help. Earlier today Chiang Rai province’s acting governor spoke at a press conference through a translator.

SOUNDCLIP

TRANSLATOR: Today the Thailand government team, with international support have done something that nobody thought was possible.

ATW: After the rescue, concern has now turned to the lasting effects and the trauma at the boy's time in the cave could have caused. Héctor Tobar has covered a similar story. He is the author of Deep Down Dark: The Untold Stories of 33 Men Buried in a Chilean Mine, and the Miracle That Set Them Free. You'll probably remember the story from 2010 when dozens of miners spent about two months stuck underground before being rescued. We reached Hector Tobar in Los Angeles, California.

RB: Mr. Tobar, as you've been watching this rescue come to this, you know, very happy ending, what's been going through your mind?

HECTOR TOBAR: Well, you know, the human drama is something that is just so similar to the human drama that I covered back in 2010, 2014 for the book that I wrote about the Chilean miners who were trapped and who went through this horrible experience of being trapped underground. And to see the world unite behind these boys and to see the best of their country and the best of humanity rally around rescuing them out of the dark, it's just such a powerful echo of that experience of the Chilean miners.

RB: I know you still talked to some of those miners. What do you think it's been like for them to watch it?

HT: I think for many of them it's triggered memories of their own time underground, which was a powerful and traumatic experience. And I know that they know that those boys went through something similar to be trapped in the dark, uncertain if you were going to live, thinking that these might be your last moments to die of starvation in a dark and damp cave. That must have been incredibly difficult for those boys and I know that the miners really have a lot of empathy for them.

RB: I wonder, too, what the age of the boys, you know, 11 to 17 — I wondered whether there maybe wasn't some benefit to them being younger. I wonder what you think about that?

HT: Well, I think that there is benefit and there's also dangers because, you know, the Chilean miners who were trapped were mostly middle-aged men, men in their 20s, 30s and 40s, 50s and they had a lot to reflect on when they were trapped. You know, they were conscious of their mortality facing death. I think that young people it's more difficult to be in those kinds of situations where you're facing death. And so I think that that would have been really, really difficult for those boys to face. On the other hand being young makes you stronger, it gives you more physical endurance. I hope that that sees them through at least the physical aspect of what they've been through. The psychological aspect might be a little bit more difficult for them to deal with.

RB: I know it's not the same experience but it is, you know, it is — there are lots of similarities certainly, and one of the things that struck me from the reporting you did was around what it did to families, because that's now the next part sort of how these children are going to be reunited with their families. What would be some of your concerns there?

HT: Well, I think that, first of all, it's a powerful reaffirmation of family love and community love. And so these boys have faced the possibility of not seeing their loved ones again. Their loved ones had sort of at least think of what the rest of their lives would be like without these boys with them. And so that's this really powerful reaffirmation of their family bond. At the same time, these boys are going to be like veterans of warfare. I mean, they're going to have post-traumatic stress. And as many people in North America know when someone comes back from Afghanistan or Iraq, from a war zone, they change, they’re different. Sometimes they're more distant because of what they've been through. That definitely happened with the Chilean miners. Their relatives were very perplexed to see these men who were being called heroes by the World withdrawing into themselves. So that's something that I think the families in Thailand need to be aware of.

RB: What happened to some of those miners after the rescue happened, all the media went away, the attention went away — you were there but everyone else went away. What happened to some of them?

HT: You know, most of them returned to normal working lives and they found that the quicker they returned to some kind of routine the quicker they healed. There were a few who thought they were going to become rich and famous and partied to excess, and they did not do as well. Many of them endured a post-traumatic stress that lasted several years. So I think that it's a mixed bag, you have in the case of the miners 33 men, you had 33 different ways of relating to this traumatic experience and the fame that followed. And I think for the boys the same thing will happen.

RB: You know, the boys there's already talk about turning the cave into a tourist attraction. There are soccer teams that want to bring them to games, there's talk about a movie. What would you say about all that? Because some of that seems to me, even regardless of their age, given the experience to be a lot to deal with.

HT: Yeah the spectacle that the miners faced did not help them. It made many of them believe they never had to work again, they really did come to believe that they were national heroes and at the same time they had this sort of small person inside of them, this person that’s been beaten up by the trauma of being trapped. And that psychological back and forth was very unhealthy. In Chile it reached levels of incredible spectacle I mean, these men were feted up and down the country, travelled to many corners of the globe and it became in a way its own kind of torture, you know, to be constantly exposed to these adoring crowds. I remember the minders telling me they went to Disney World and people just wanted to touch them. One of the miners told me it's like we were Jesus walking in the Sea of Galilee, people just want to reach out and touch us. And that adoration can actually be harmful to — and especially I think to a younger person.

RB: So what would be — I'm sure you're watching this you know gripped by it particularly given all you've you've covered and the people you've talked to. What would be your hope now for these kids now that they're out there alive?

HT: Well, I think they should take some time to enjoy the moment, to enjoy the adoration that surrounded them, to just appreciate the fact that this entire country rallied around them and that their families did not give up on them, that their families were present there waiting. They should take time to enjoy that and really see this as an experience that stopped them a little bit about how big the world is. They’re from this small place in Thailand and now suddenly they're seeing how big the world is, how much attention is paid to them. Take a moment to appreciate it but then get back to the business of childhood, the business of growing up, the business of going to school. Now those are the important things in life and they should treasure those ordinary things as well.

RB: Get back to the soccer game.

HT: Get back to soccer pitches, yes.

RB: Mr. Tobar, thank you, do appreciate your expertise on this.

HT: Thank you so much.

ATW: Hector Tobar is an associate professor at the University of California Irvine. He's also the author of Deep Down Dark: The Untold Stories of 33 Men Buried in a Chilean mine, and the Miracle That Set Them Free. We reached him in Los Angeles.

[Music: Acoustic Guitar]

Greyhound Update

Guest: Grand Chief Sheila North

ATW: Greyhound is abandoning the north. That's how Sheila North describes the bus company's decision to ditch its western Canadian roots. She's the Grand Chief of the Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak, and she's responding to Greyhound's announcement yesterday that it's shutting down service along all but one of its western routes by the beginning of November. We reached Grand Chief Sheila North Nanaimo, B.C.

RB: Grand Chief North, when you say that Greyhound is abandoning the north, just who are you worried about in this situation?

GRAND CHIEF SHEILA NORTH: People that don't have other modes of transportation or other resources to get to the services that they need for their health conditions, whatever that may be. And so these are not a matter of just choice, this is critical for them to have access to some sort of transportation, especially for people that live in the north.

RB: I too am from Manitoba, and I know that a lot of people — I remember the Greyhound bus terminal down there when it was in downtown Winnipeg, taking it in to, as you say, to get into the city. So what are you hearing from people about this decision?

SN: I think people are anxious to see how that is going to actually translate to their medical appointments. And I think some people are not even believing that it's actually happening or that it's true that the services will be cut. So it's shocking in a lot of ways, but at the same time I think it's also very concerning to people that have to find ways to get down to the south to get services that they need or even just to other urban areas that they have to get to in Dawson or Thompson, in those places.

RB: And would you say that a lot of people take the bus, not only because it's practical, but because it's affordable?

SN: Absolutely. And sometimes it's the only way to go. People in the North know there are a lot of people that are financially able to afford a car but there are many others that don't have that luxury and so they have no other choice but to get on the buses. And it's also about safety, we know that people are vulnerable and they have to go on the highways and try and catch a ride and that’s going to make people even more vulnerable when the services are cut and they really don't have any other choice but to get on the highway to try and ask for a ride.

RB: You mean hitchhiking?

SN: Yes.

RB: Greyhound has said that it realizes it's going to have an impact on people, but that that it is just not financially viable at this stage. Well, what do you say in response to that?

SN: I get that, and it should not just be about the bottom dollar. And it's easy for me to say that but I'm also thinking about the lives of our people. People need this service and it has to be about that. People's lives are much more valuable than the dollar. And I know that it might not be profitable as it could have been or it has been, but we're talking about people's lives here. And I think it might be a matter of life and death. Also the bus wasn't always the best mode of transportation, especially when you're sick. When you're going down for medical appointments you don't want to be riding on a bus for eight hours or longer or even a short time when you're not feeling well, but people simply don't have a choice sometimes. And as it is Health Canada for our First Nation, they try to find the most economical way to transport people back and forth. And so unfortunately, that meant the bus. So we'll have to now figure out a way forward to make sure that people are going to get to where they need to after the bus stops running.

RB: So what do you think could happen here? Would you expect a government to step in because that seems like a big ask but — and I know that already the government of Manitoba has said this won't be subsidies to keep it going, but what would you like as a solution here?

SN: Well, I think there has to be some interim measure, because we can't just sit down and people like that we have to figure out something until we look at the bigger picture and also a more solidified plan going forward. And that plan going forward has to involve Indigenous leadership and First Nations themselves. It's time now that we take care of our own needs in our own communities. And this is part of it, this is a huge part of it.

RB: Could that be part of the solution? Perhaps a group of First Nations communities, you know, starting their own sort of transportation system?

SN: Absolutely. We're told by officials that medical transportation in Manitoba alone is about $150 million a year that goes to transportation companies, so that's a lot of money. And there are better ways to bring people down to their appointments and to other things that they need to get to in a more efficient way, and if we're not going to be taking resources up north ,which we want to, that's what we're working on. But in the interim we have to find ways to make sure our people are getting services that they need.

RB: Have you ever taken the Greyhound?

SN: Yes, I have. And when you're just starting out it's normal to take those modes of transportation, and when you're a student especially, of course, yeah.

RB: So how critical is it, would you say, to the communities you represent?

SN: It's very critical, especially on the west side of the community. A lot of the east side is mostly isolated and served by airlines. And then on the other side where they have all weather roads, they rely more heavily in the central part on the bus. And thankfully there are a few communities now that have their own medical transportation system. I know that Norway House does that, there’s a few other communities that bring their own patients down and we'll have to see how we can support them so they can do it in a bigger way and also to the other communities that be able to do that.

RB: OK. Grand Chief, thank you.

SN: Thank you.

ATW: Sheila North is Grand Chief of the Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak. We reached her in Nanaimo, B.C. Meantime, there are signs that other companies may pick up at least some of the slack that Greyhound leaves behind. Casper Transportation in Thunder Bay announced today that it will add five new routes through Manitoba and Saskatchewan in October.

[Music: Acoustic Guitar]

Stolen Rental Car

Guest: Constable Tommy MacKay

ATW: Last month, a woman in Cornwall, Ontario went to return her rental car. But when she got to the Enterprise Rent-A-Car location she learned a couple surprising facts. Fact number one: The car she was returning was not the car she had initially rented. Fact number two: She had stolen said car — by accident. And it took her two weeks of driving a stolen car around to notice. That's where Constable Tommy MacKay comes in. He was the attending officer in this whole ordeal. We reached him in Cornwall.

RB: Constable MacKay, you got this call about a stolen vehicle in Cornwall. At what point did you realize this wasn't just a regular stolen car story?

CONSTABLE TOMMY MACKAY: Well, initially when I got dispatched to the call I was told that there was an elderly female attempting to return what she believed to be a rental vehicle, which turned out to be a stolen vehicle. So right off the hop I was kind of thinking to myself this is not normal, who brings a stolen car to a rental place and tries to return it as something that they've rented. So my initial thought was I'm going to have to find out where she got this vehicle from, or my God, how am I going to put cuffs on this elderly female who was in possession of stolen property. Basically right off the hop I thought there's a little bit more to this story.

RB: So it was this woman though, who had stolen the car, but by accident?

TM: That's correct. She had absolutely no intent to steal the vehicle, but she was in possession of that vehicle since it was reported stolen.

RB: Which was how long?

TM: Two weeks to the day.

RB: How does someone steal a car by accident?

TM: Well, this elderly female had gone into that car rental establishment and rented a vehicle, which turned out to be a black Nissan Sentra. She explained how the key fob worked and that she didn’t need a key, that as long as she had the key on her, or the key fob, she could get in and out of the vehicle, she could start the vehicle and drive. So this elderly female rented the vehicle, left the car rental place, drove three or four minutes to the local Wal-Mart, ran into the Wal-Mart to get some groceries. Shortly thereafter she exited, walked over to the area where she had parked her vehicle, saw a shiny black vehicle hopped in and drove away. The elderly gentleman who had the black Infiniti accidentally left his key fob in the vehicle, which obviously is a bad idea.

RB: So one was a Nissan Sentra, the other was an Infiniti, and they were both black right?

TM: Yes.

RB: Do they look the same?

TM: No, they don't. But they're both shiny. They're both clean on the outside and they were basically parked if not side by each, very close proximity to each other. So I could see where her confusion was, she literally was in the vehicle for three or four minutes and walked back to where she believes she parked the vehicle and there was this shiny new vehicle and she hopped into and drove off. The best part is when she returned this vehicle and the manager at the rental company tried to inform her that they didn't want rent type of vehicle and she started giving the manager the business because they should be renting a vehicle in the condition it was. She was upset because the ash was dirty, there were papers in the glove box and there were golf clubs in the back, and she was given the manager of the business on renting her a dirty vehicle.

RB: But that didn't tip her off at some point?

TM: No it didn't tip her off. She was just upset that they had the audacity to rent her a vehicle that was unkempt. So when she returned the vehicle she made sure to tell the manager this.

RB: So then how did the car rental company start to figure it out?

TM: The manager of the car rental company through discussions with the elderly female ran her name in the system and established that she did indeed rent a car from them exactly two weeks prior. So they took a ride down to Wal-Mart and sure enough the black Nissan Sentra the children who were still sitting in the park lot.

RB: And it had been there?

TM: For two weeks. She drove around and did her daily business in the stolen vehicle for two weeks. It was actually all put together by the manager of the rental agency. He remembered the elderly gentleman coming in to get a rental through his insurance because his vehicle had been stolen. So in conversation with him he knew that the elderly gentleman had a black Infiniti — which this elderly female was trying to return.

RB: Okay wait. Because his car was stolen he went to the same car rental company?

TM: He went to the same car rental agency to rent a vehicle through his insurance until there was a replacement. And in conversation with the manager of that establishment it came out that he was the owner of a black Infinity that was recently stolen. So when this elderly female came in with his black Infiniti the manager was like I think I know who owns this vehicle.

RB: He had solved the case. And how did the woman feel?

TM: Well, obviously she was — when it came to light she was a little bit embarrassed, but she shrugged it off. She's been through a lot of years in her life and she just like it is what it is. She went about her day, no more than that. I'm sorry that happened but you know it is what it is.

RB: And how about the guy who got his car stolen?

TM: He had a good chuckle. He was happy that it was returned with no damage to it, but he had a good laugh about it.

RB: Have you ever seen anything like this? I don't know how long you've been a cop.

TM: This is a first. In speaking to some of the sergeants who have been on for 20 plus years, they've never seen anything like this.

RB: What's the lesson constable?

TM: Don't leave your key fobs in your vehicle at any point in time, somebody could walk up and take it. And this this poor gentleman, it was a complete accident that he left his keys fob in the vehicle. He was there to do groceries and accidentally dropped his grocery list under the seat put his key fob down to grab his list and forgot to pick it back up. It was as simple as that.

RB: And maybe check what your rental car is before you get out of it?

TM: I would be checking my rental car and probably be aware of what type of vehicle you have rented.

RB: Constable, it's a good tale with a happy ending.

TM: There was a happy ending, yeah. We don't we don't get a lot of stolen vehicles that are happy endings. This one was good. It was amusing and nobody was upset, everybody had a good laugh about it.

RB: Us too. Constable, thanks for your time, appreciate it.

TM: Absolutely.

ATW: Oh yes, I hope that put a smile on your face. Constable Tommy MacKay works for the Cornwall Community Police Service in Cornwall, Ontario, which is where we reached him. To learn more about how on earth someone steals a car by accident. Just go to our website, we will attempt to explain. That’s www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Jazz]

Escape Room Burglar

ATW: He tried everything but he couldn't get out. So he called for help. That's normal for an escape room. You try to find clues, which lead you to other clues and eventually to a way out. And if you get stuck, you just press a button and someone gives you a hint — it's a good time. Although, this particular guy didn't find it that much fun. For one thing, you usually do an escape room in a group and work together to solve the puzzles. This guy was on his own and he couldn't solve anything. Also he couldn't get a hold of anyone at the front desk for a hand so he called the police, who arrested him because among other things he hadn't paid to get in in the first place — he'd broken in. What I'm saying is a guy in Vancouver, Washington tried to burglarize an escape room, and once he was in he couldn't figure out how to get out. If you're asking how that's possible. I don't know. The story isn't clear about how the suspect managed to wind up stuck in there in the first place, but he did. And you might think that's pretty good advertising for an escape room, but the owner of Northwest Escape Experience doesn't feel that way at the moment. He told Oregon TV station KPTV quote “Our goal is to bring fun to families and businesses and it doesn't feel good to get taken advantage of,” Unquote. Well if you're in the Vancouver, Washington area and are looking for a challenge, grab some friends and try out that escape room, but don't just drop in out of nowhere because if you do it's a real tourist trap.

[Music: Laidback Jazz]

Part 2: SCOTUS Pick, Tractor Death

SCOTUS Pick

Guest: Professor Bill Snape

ATW: The descriptors for Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump's U.S. Supreme Court nominee, have been what you might expect, a law and order appellate judge, a staunch conservative, and according to President Donald Trump quote “one of the finest and sharpest legal minds of our time,” unquote. But our guest has another name for Judge Kavanaugh — Lord Voldemort. And he feels pretty qualified to say that since his name is Professor Snape. Bill Snape is an environmental law professor at the American University and he has concerns about where Judge Kavanaugh might sway the Supreme Court on environmental issues. We reached Professor Snape in Washington, D.C.

RB: Professor Snape, let's start with this part. Does Judge Kavanaugh know that you call him Lord Voldemort?

PROFESSOR BILL SNAPE: I have no idea. I've argued before him, before the D.C. Circuit, but I have no indication whether he saw those press accounts or not.

RB: I get the Harry Potter reference, of course. And your name is Snape, so it makes sense. But are there actual genuine reasons, real reasons why you think that he is the dark lord, in terms of a pick?

BS: Yes, certainly from an environmental and energy law perspective, I figured as my name really is Professor Snape it was appropriate to accurately needle him on, I think, one of his huge Achilles heels heading into the hearing process before the United States Senate. And that is through the five years he's been an appellate judge before the D.C. Circuit, arguably the second most powerful court in our country, he has demonstrated a pretty consistent bias for big industry, big corporations, polluters and a hostility and hesitancy towards public interest plaintiffs, plaintiffs that use cutting edge science or, you know, climate change, God forbid we talk about that. And his skepticism has revealed itself in his opinions. He has ruled against environmental groups and public interest groups and the environment many, many times, it's absolutely a theme of his judicial career, along with his antipathy toward the agencies themselves like EPA. And in one case it was so extreme he was actually overturned by the United States Supreme Court 6-2. He comes in, I believe, with his mind made up on a lot of issues. He has been a lawyer for the far-right wing of the Republican Party for over 20 years. And as it relates to the future of our planet, while I was being tongue in cheek and having a good time, it was not meant to be a compliment.

RB: There are other people that give a couple of examples where he ruled in favour of environmental things and sided with the EPA, namely to an example in 2013 where he upheld an EPA decision to retroactively veto a mining project in West Virginia. There was another one in 2014. Do you think that he's really anti-environment or do you think that he's against the EPA trying to overregulate or against the idea that the Supreme Court should be making laws?

BS: I'm aware of those two cases. I'm not aware of many more beyond them. It's tempting to say that even a broken clock is correct two times a day. But on the two cases that you mention, which I've read and I'm familiar with, those are pretty straightforward cases in my view. One was literally just applying the Clean Air Act statutory language, and another the environmental degradation was so extreme that it was sort of hard to miss. And so we're grateful for those two decisions, but I think when you look at his overall 12 years of decision making under the Clean Power Plan, under Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs), under the Endangered Species Act — time and time again he has ruled against the public interest. And those two cases are certainly nice but they are far outweighed by the dozens, if not hundreds, of cases that stand on the other side of the ledger. We were hoping that it would be someone else. He really was the one of the final four that was giving us the most heartburn and now that has become realized.

RB: It's interesting because when we think about Supreme Court nominees in your country, the contentious issues tend to be things like abortion, the death penalty, those kinds of hot button issues. Do you think that he is riskier for the environment than he is for those social issues that drive so much of the decisions around who should be a Supreme Court nominee?

BS: Well, I certainly think there will be a lot of questions to him about women's rights, about worker’s rights, about fair housing, about the issues you just railed off. I think that on all these issues, and I do feel qualified to speak on almost all of them, that he does seemingly already have his mind made up a lot of times, that he is a part of this new generation of conservative lawyers that likes to dump on federal agencies. And I think on issues relating to the Constitution he'll just have to hopefully answer straightforwardly some questions about Roe v. Wade and the Casey case. I do predict for those who have never seen the United States confirmation hearing that he will be very adept at not answering questions, there'll be a lot of Kabuki theater. And I think the viewers, certainly those who have a vote in the U.S. and are going to be influencing the Senate, ought to be listening to his real answers not ones where he sounds pretty and talks pretty but ends up not really saying much of anything.

RB: Do you think that this is ultimately about the Trump administration wanting to roll back many of the environmental regulations that were put in place by Obama?

BS: I do think that particularly the second nomination by President Trump is a lot about President Trump. I mean, the first one Gorsuch that was replacing Scalia, even though Merrick Garland was sort of screwed over by the Senate Republicans, I think some people felt that ‘Whatever, that's the way it goes .’ This one, with elections coming up in a few months, huge dissatisfaction with the administration, yes, I think there is a meta political question ‘Why is he ramming through a far-right judicial nominee to replace one of the most centrist justices we've ever had?’ Particularly at this point in time with this president. So I think when you listen to the Senate deliberations they’ll not only be deliberations about Brett Kavanaugh and some of his deficiencies, but also about the man who nominated him, yes.

RB: Judge Kavanaugh has written a lot of decisions and that will be obviously fodder for the confirmation hearing. What would you want to ask him if you had one go at him at the confirmation hearing?

BS: I want to ask him exactly how far he thinks EPA can go Under the Clean Air Act. Our view of the Clean Air Act in the United States that gives EPA all the authority it needs to reasonably and cost effectively deal with climate pollution. He seems to have a contrary view and I just want to know where that view is along the spectrum of not believing in climate science vs. actually doing something about it, what he thinks EPA ought to do besides just have a secret red phone to Paul Ryan's House to figure out what the House Republicans like that particular day or not.

RB: Do you think he believes in climate science and climate change?

BS: I have no idea whether he believes in climate science, he’s obviously a very intelligent man. I would imagine that he understands the argument for climate science and why climate science ought to be taken seriously. How he would translate that into law on the Supreme Court can only be informed by the fact that he ruled against every single Obama climate initiative there was. So, to me, that’s not a good starting point.

RB: Professor Snape, thanks for making the time, appreciate it.

BS: Thank you for having me.

RB: Okay, good to talk to you.

BS: Bye, bye.

ATW: Bill Snape is an environmental law professor at American University in Washington, D.C., that's where we reached him. And if you're wondering why Professor Snape called the latest Supreme Court nominee Lord Voldemort, he swears it's more than just a Harry Potter joke. Go to our website for more. www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: 90s Rock]

Tractor Death

Guest: Laurel Adams

ATW: On June 22nd Elmira, Ontario dairy farmers Henk and Bettina Schuurmans began driving a tractor across Canada complete with a big model cow named Maple and a sign saying ‘Honk to support quality milk produced by Canadian farm families.’ Yesterday morning their tractor was struck by a semi-trailer in North Saskatoon. Henk was injured in the collision, Bettina was killed. Here's Henk speaking to CBC Radio's Up North last month.

SOUNDCLIP

HENK SCHUURMANS: We thought of going with a white car or a motorcycle. We’re not really motorcycle people, I guess, and the car is kind of boring. You know, I thought ‘What's the next thing? We're farmers, why not think a tractor across Canada?’ We have had a little space for luggage and a fuel tank in the front because you can't just buy fuel everywhere. So we have to make sure that we can make the long stretches and, yeah. They sure notice and we have a few slogans on the tractor. If you have a slow moving sign on the highway sometimes, you know, you get annoyed with being behind it and, you know, you're always in a rush. But we have so much support with thumbs up and honking horns, people even slowing down and driving behind a tractor for a while just to enjoy the scene, I guess. And if you see us honk the horn and please support us.

ATW: That was dairy farmer Henk Schuurmans speaking to CBC last month. He and his wife were hit by a semi-trailer in North Saskatoon yesterday. His wife Bettina was killed. Laurel Adams is a spokesperson for Dairy Farmers of Ontario who knew the couple. We reached her in Barrie, Ontario.

RB: Ms. Adams, what did you think when you heard about the accident?

LAUREL ADAMS: I was absolutely shocked and I was extremely sad. We'd just seen the video of them leaving their last farm, and had seen them waving and I was just completely shocked when I heard the news.

RB: Is there any sense of what happened at this stage?

LA: So what we know right now is that they were driving on the Trans-Canada Highway and they were hit from behind by a semi ,and Bettina passed away on site and Hank was in critical condition and he's still in the hospital in Saskatchewan.

RB: Other than what do we know about how Hank is doing?

LA: So we know he's going for surgery on Thursday. We don't know all of the details of that. The family is there now with him and we know that he's coherent and he's aware of what happened and we've been told that he's in a lot of pain.

RB: So let's just try and tell us a little bit about what Henk and Bettina were doing with this, you know, with this tractor and this fake cow attached to the back. Why did they want to do this?

LA: So, about three months ago they semi-retired as they put it, so they'd been succession planning, their three sons were taking over the farm and so they were sort of looking at things they could do in addition to being on the farm. And while that was happening they were watching the news and reading all about what Trump was saying about dairy and listening to a lot of anti-supply management information and they're very passionate about the system, they're very passionate about being dairy farmers. And it came to them that they had always wanted to see Canada but they wanted to do something more and they wanted to share with comedians what they do and they felt very strongly that the message that was being missed was that Canadian dairy farmers are farm families as opposed to factory farms that we all hear about. And so they just wanted to really share that message across the country.

RB: And they thought that they'd do it on a tractor, they had the tractor modified?

LA: Yes, so Henk called me about a week before they left with the idea and said ‘I think I have a crazy idea and I need you to tell me if it's super crazy or good crazy.’ Okay and then he said ‘Well what do you think about driving a tractor around Canada?’ He told me about it. So the idea came to him and they sprung into action.

RB: They looked from their pictures like they were in great shape and were loving life. How would you describe them?

LA: I would say that's a pretty good way to put it. They were just lovely people and they were very passionate about what they were doing as far as farming. And Henk has been very involved more with the dairy community and also as he's been able to sort of pass the farm to his sons he's been more involved with the different committees that you can join to talk about things like animal welfare and trade. So they've really joined that, and I know Bettina had a horse and she was a horseback rider in addition to owning a farm.

RB: You said they had three sons, I think, who were taking over the farm?

LA: Yeah, so they have three sons and two daughters, and their three sons are taking over the farm.

RB: And have you spoken to any of them, how are they doing?

LA: So I have not spoken to them directly, I've spoken to a very close friend of theirs, and it's pretty much from what I've heard, just the same sort of shocked reaction and = really just trying to come to terms with it.

RB: Because there were sort of planning the next part of their lives, I guess?

LA: Yes and they were trying to make it back — or the importance of making it back by a certain date was because one of their sons was getting married, so there's that piece of it as well like they're young families and they were really rushing back for this wedding.

RB: What about the community of Elmira, not very big and I would imagine that's affected everyone there too?

LA: For sure. There's been — I’ve received a lot of phone calls and I know people who live in the area, who farm in the area have received a lot of phone calls and it's just grief, but also an outpouring of support. What we're seeing is just people they don't just want to say ‘I'm sorry this happened,’ they want to do something they want to take action. And I said to one of the farmers who called me ‘It's so nice to see people wanting to help,’ and he said ‘But that's what Henk and Bettina do for everybody in the community.’ And that just really struck me because that that's how they're perceived and loved.

RB: Well, I hope Hank is on the road to recovery and our condolences to everyone about Bettina.

LA: Thank you so much.

RB: Thank you.

ATW: That was Laurel Adams, spokesperson for the Fairy Farmers of Ontario. We reached her in Barrie, Ontario.

[Music: Ambient Bass Tones]

Tab Hunter obit

ATW: In the 1950s Tab Hunter was a Hollywood sex symbol, and the star of films like Battle Cry and Damn Yankees but Tab Hunter had a secret — he was gay. And while his sexuality was the subject of speculation during his career, he didn't confirm the rumors until 2005. Mr. Hunter died this week. He was 86. In 1982 he spoke to the CBC program The Entertainers. Here's part of his conversation with host Al Oster.

SOUNDCLIP

AL OSTER: It's been a good 20 years since we've seen Tab Hunter in a major motion picture and it's amazing how little he's changed. He's still a preppie and he still looks like he really ought to be called something like Tab — even though his real name is Arthur.

TAB HUNTER: Well the thing is this, nowadays people can have their own name doesn't make any difference, you know Burt Humperdink, I mean, you name it. In those days — I was around the business when there was a certain naiveté and glossiness about the business in the 50s and 60s. And that's part of the charm of a film like Grease too, because it has a naiveté with those young people. Life was sort of a Ross Hunter movie all the time, everything was Doris Day and Rock Hudson and pillow talk. It's not terribly realistic, but it's great fun, and that's part of the charm of that an those prior to that. When they wanted to give me a Hollywood name they said we've got to Tab you with something and that's how that came about. And I show horses, hunters and jumpers I used to show them a lot. And it could have been Tab jumper as opposed to Tab Hunter.

AO: But the name was a good choice. And Tab Hunter fit it well. In his day there were very few around who looked as much like movie stars as he did.

TH: I sort of fell into it because I was what they label a product of Hollywood, which is very bad, particularly in those days because right away people take pot shots at you. But I sort of fell into it, I ran into people in the business. My friend Dick Clayton really started me. He is now Burt Reynolds partner and has been for the past 15, 17 years. But Dick really started me in the business, he became an agent of mine, he became my agent, started me thinking along the lines of growing and developing as an actor. Then he became my manager and he handled people like Jimmy Dean, Jane Fonda, Tuesday Weld and so forth.

AO: And so how did it happen that all those others went on to make careers in Hollywood while Tab Hunter disappeared?

TH: Well I’ll tell you something, when I couldn't get arrested in Hollywood I went out to work. That's the name of the game. Los Angeles a place you go to bed you wake up in the morning, you're 65 you haven't done a darn thing. And I'm just not cut out for that. This country is everything the newest, you know tomorrow's. Driving here today you're seeing a cathedral that people are thinking of tearing down to put up a skyscraper. You know, there's no staying power, unfortunate, you know. I mean, any nation that has to have a new car every two years something has got to be wrong. Like Geraldine Page once said to me, “Remember this tab, if people don't like you that's their bad taste.” So, you know, that's how I look at things now.

ATW: That was Tab Hunter speaking with Al Oster on the CBC program The Entertainers is in 1982. Mr. Hunter died this week. He was 86.

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July 10, 2018 episode transcript

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