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The AIH Transcript for January 31, 2017

Hosts: Helen Mann and Kim Gordon

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening, I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight:

HM: Paying personal tribute. A Quebec professor remembers a colleague shot dead in the attack on a mosque as a father, a husband, a teacher and a friend. He vows not to allow the killing to destroy his faith in humanity.

KG: Mistaken identity. In the chaos of the massacre, a member of the mosque was arrested by police. But he turned out to have nothing to do with the murders. Now he's been released and he says he doesn't blame the officers.

HM: A mystery solved. Last year, we told you about a disoriented man with a North American accent who was living in a British care home. Now a BBC journalist has uncovered the dark story of how he wound up in England.

KG: Political protest. A U.S. senator explains why he and other Democrats are introducing bills to rescind President Trump's immigration travel ban, even though they'll be blocked by Republicans.

HM: Leader of the pack. The man responsible for the iconic ‘80s video game Pac-Man has died. And we'll bring you an interview from our archives with a student who racked up such a high score. He blew the machine circuits.

KG: And dating ape. When a Dutch zoo sets a female orangutan up with a tablet that will ask her to swipe right on an attractive male.She gets so impatient she smashes the screen. As It Happens the Tuesday edition, radio that suspects she may not be a Tinder-hearted creature.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: QC mosque: victim’s friend/reporter/witness

QC mosque: victim’s friend

Guest: Larbi Yahia

KG: The mourning process has begun for the community that surrounds Quebec City's Islamic Cultural Centre. Six of their members were killed on Sunday shot in the back as they completed their evening prayers. 27-year-old Alexandre Bissonnette has been charged with six counts of murder and five of attempted murder in what Quebec's premier has called an act of terror. But the community has asked of the six men who died be remembered as more than victims of their killers hate. They were fathers, they were sons and they were friends. Larbi Yahia was at the Islamic Cultural Center on Sunday, he saw the gunman kill his closest friend Laval Professor Khaled Belkacemi. We reached to Mr. Yahia in Quebec City.

HM: Mr. Yahia, first of all, we're very sorry about the loss of your friend.

LARBI YAHIA: Thank you very much.

HM: What can you tell us about Professor Belkacemi?

LY: Yeah. Mr. Belkacemi, was a professor at the University of Laval and we were friends because we knew each other since more than 40 years. We were students together before in Algeria before we came here. So I know him, so when I came to Quebec, we got in touch. So we were always meeting every day almost. We our things like practice sport, we do all our social and spiritual activities together. From time to time it happens that we go to the mosque, it’s not quite often, but from time to time we go to the mosque.

HM: You were there when he died. Can you tell us what you remember about the attack?

LY: The only thing that I can say is that no one can stand this kind of violence. So I don't really want to speak about the event itself. The minutes that I spent there were too too too long. You know I really… the fact that I don’t want to talk about it. I'd like to talk more about other things to provide like message of peace and love because I can tell you that Quebec City and all of Quebec, it's really a wonderful place and wonderful people and where I shared love, I shared activities. I have a lot of friends, I've never had single problem in 20 years or so we never thought that those things could happen here. So Quebec people, they are very very nice and very friendly. What they showed yesterday all the solidarity movements that went through all of Canada, especially here in Quebec City. I hope that this movement will continue. Enough is enough you know; the world is very sick. Enough is enough.

HM: We spoke yesterday with a member of the mosque who said that he was at this point, still frightened about his safety and the implications of what happened. Do you feel the same way?

LY: No, not at all. Personally, I don't feel like that you know. I am confident that it is a separate act that happened because of the hate. It would be really really difficult I mean to put solutions to avoid this kind of event. But at least we can make sure with a good relationship with. Because there is a lack of communication there is a lot of ignorance. People they don't know who is that people and they just listen or go through the mass media or social network and take things that they have that has nothing to do with the reality. I live here in Quebec, I'm very happy with my Quebec friends and I’m very happy with all the people that I’ve met in 20 years.

HM: You spoke with such praise for your friend, Professor Belkacemi. Can you tell us a little bit about his family, who he has left behind?

LY: To tell you the truth, I spent the two of those days in their house I just came home; I had to take some medicine.

HM: How many children has he left?

LY: He has three children. He has three children. One girl, she is a lawyer and the other one is a student at university and his young one his college school — secondary school. So he's left three very nice children. His wife, she's a doctor exactly as him. She works at the University of Laval with him at the same department. So they are really educated people. To tell you the truth, the people that were killed are all nice people. They’d go and pray from time to time.

HM: Do you think that Mr. Belkacemi’s family is getting the support that they need right now?

LY: Right now, to tell the truth, there was a solidarity movement. So yeah, I think we're getting what we're looking for. And to make things happen easier for all the administrative work and the support issues. The only thing that I'm thinking of is about how they will work? How they are feeling? And how they will face the situation after this event? They have of course to go through this period that is a very very complex very hard for everyone. So I wish that they can support them.

HM: Finally, before I let you go, I just want to know where you're getting your strength to support the family, to help out the way you are and to speak to us today?

LY: You know thanks a lot. To tell you the truth, I'm still in shock, but it's my personality. I've been always like this positive to give and receive love. That's my message now and for the future and you know you have to be tolerant, you have to respect yours and you have to bring love. And you have to know each other and let the other comes to you as well. Because you are two parts you know? Not only one part could do the job, but the two parts could do the job. Right not there has been plenty of messages from Quebec friends and Canadian friends. So it's really what I said before, it's a really peaceful place. Quebec and Canada are a really peaceful place and I hope that it will continue like this. And I hope that the world as a whole will talk of this question of hate. All these hate messages have to stop; enough is enough. We have to be humans. That's it.

HM: Mr. Yahia, thank you for your message and for speaking with us and once again, our condolences to you.

LY: Thanks a lot. I Appreciate it.

HM: All right. Goodbye.

LY: OK. Goodbye.

KG: Larbi Yahia was a friend of Khaled Belkacemi. Professor Belkacemi was among the six men killed in Sunday's attack on the Quebec Islamic Cultural Centre.

QC mosque: reporter

Guest: Vincent Larouche

KG: Right after the attack, the police told reporters that they had two suspects in custody, including a man of Moroccan descent. That prompted widespread speculation about Islamic terrorism. But those stories had to be corrected and they should have been. By Monday, the police were admitting they'd made a terrible mistake. Far from being a killer, Mohammad Belkhadir had been trying to save someone's life. Mr. BelKhadir told his story to Vincent Larouche of La Presse. We reached Mr. LaRouche in Quebec City.

HM: Vincent Larouche, what was Mohammad Belkhadir doing at the mosque when police arrived that night?

VINCENT LAROUCHE: Well, according to what he explained to us, he went to attend the prayer with other participants. And as soon as it finished, it was snowing that day and he went out to clear the stairs outside the mosque. He was shoveling and he was outside when he heard the gunshots. He told us he heard gunshots for around 15 to 20 seconds. As soon as the shots stopped, he rushed inside to help the wounded. He explained to us that he came in, he didn't see the shooter and the shooter already had left. He called first 911 then he kneeled and took off his coat to help one of the wounded who was lying on the ground.

HM: Did he say anything about that decision to run back inside having heard those shots?

VL: Yes, he said Of course he was afraid. He had just heard the shots, but he says everybody has that reflex that when people are wounded you just rush to help them you don't leave them on the ground alone. He really just reacted quickly and ran inside.

HM: What happened when the police arrived?

VL: He said, I just had this image in the corner of someone holding a gun. He just saw someone coming in with a gun. And what he understood later it was the first police officers, who were rushing in to the rescue. But he reacted very quickly. He was afraid and he saw someone holding a gun and he thought it was the shooter coming back to shoot some more people. So he just rushed outside and ran for his life. And of course the police coming in on the site of a terrorist attack or a shooting, seeing a young man running very fast just as they come in they jumped him. They arrested him, handcuffed him and took him as a suspect. And it was very interesting to hear Mr. Belkhadir explain that he understood very well that the way police handled this matter. And he thought they were doing actually their job and doing a good job. He said of course for them, they come in and they see someone fleeing the scene. So, it's logical that they think he's a suspect and they have to arrest him.

HM: How long was he in custody?

VL: He was arrested Sunday night and he was released after lunchtime on Monday.

HM: Did he describe what that was like for him?

VL: Yes, he said Quebec Police were very nice with him. They arranged the handcuffs when he complained that they were hurting him. They loosened up the handcuffs and they gave him tea, food, they gave him a mattress to sleep on, which I don't think every inmate has. They finally told him good news, Mohamed you're not a suspect. You're just a witness and now you're free.

HM: Do we know how police realized that mistake and at what point that happened?

VL: It happened around midday on Monday. He really had nothing to do with this. He didn't know the other suspect. They had eyewitness accounts. You know it was pretty easy I think for them to clear him up. And plus they had the real suspects in custody too. And he was talking. And I must tell you that while we were waiting for the release of Mr. Belkhadir, many of his friends, we met several of them and they all said I can assure you I'm 100 per cent certain that he has nothing to do with the shooting with the attack. They said he's a he's a regular at this mosque. He participates in the prayers; he liked the people who were there, so he had really no reason to attack them.

HM: What do you make of Mr. Belkhadir’s understanding attitude given what happened to him?

VL: It was really surprising for me because I really thought it would be really angry and it was also refreshing I think, to hear him so much understanding. It was really really interesting to hear him. And we were I think there were three of us reporters asking him questions when he got home. He had slept very very little, he was really tired, he was standing in the cold it was freezing cold in Quebec city that day and he was just answering all those questions and everybody was pressing him: Are you not angry? Will you asked for anything in compensation? And he was just so calm and he showed so much understanding and so was respectful and even thankful for the way the police had handled the matter. It was really something to see.

HM: So what are you hearing? How are people in Quebec responding to his story?

VL: Well, when we published the story online like 20 minutes after I finished talking to him and it got so much traction. It was shared so many times on social media. And I got many calls from many radio stations, from many other media outlets who wanted to hear about him. It was really really a story that everybody wanted to hear because I think everybody could put themselves in his shoes.

HM: Vincent Larouche, thank you very much for speaking with us.

VL: No problem. Thanks to you.

HM: OK. Bye

VL: Bye bye.

KG: Vincent Larouche is a reporter with La Presse. He was in Quebec City.

QC mosque: witness

Guest: Mohamed Labidi

KG: Mohamed Labidi is the former president of the Quebec Islamic Cultural Centre. He was among the first to hear that one of the mosqueès members was a suspect and then that he'd been cleared. We reached him in Quebec City.

HM: First of all, Mr. Labidi, please accept my condolences.

MOHAMED LABIDI: Thank you. Thank you so much.

HM: How did you feel when you heard the incorrect reports that a member of your community was involved in the attack and then the police announced that they'd made a mistake?

ML: The sadness was doubled. It is true that it wasn’t the attacker because for us it's an act against Muslims. And today it's very very very sad for us to have this kind of thing happen. When we hear about his innocence and liberation it was good news for all the community.

HM: Mr.Belkhadir told journalists that he understands that the police were doing their best at the time, but he went through a very difficult experience. What do you make of his attitude? His expressions that he understands?

ML: He understands because the situation for the policemen is not easy at all. They came to a crime scene and saw someone suspected and they arrested him. It’s comprehensible.

HM: Some news outlets have not corrected the false impression that was left by his arrest. What message would you like those news organizations to know?

ML: I want them to correct this false news because it will give another false image about the crime and it will contribute to increase Islamophobia worries.

HM: So you're fearful that if they perpetuate that story that it will make things worse?

ML: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It will make the situation worse and worse because now what's happened it's the fruit of the Islamophobia — the fruit of this kind of message.

HM: How are you and members of your mosque holding up generally today?

ML: It could be better, but the sadness is still there because mosque is still closed. Police are still around the mosque and the situation has not changed until now.

HM: Mr. Labidi, again we are very sorry for what you are all going through and I appreciate you taking time to talk to us today.

ML: Thank you very much.

HM: All right. Good bye

ML: Bye bye.

KG: Mohamed Labidi is the former president of the Quebec Islamic Cultural Centre. He was in Quebec City.

[Music: Piano]

Brent Hawkes verdict

KG: He's a well-known Toronto pastor and LGBT activist, who officiated at former NDP leader Jack Lincoln's funeral. And today, in a Nova Scotia courtroom Brant Hawkes was found not guilty of sex crimes he was accused of committing against a teenager in the 1970s. The judge said the complainants testimony was not reliable enough to support a conviction. After the verdict Mr. Hawkes spoke briefly to reporters outside the courthouse, along with Doug Elliott, chair of the Brent Hawkes Support Fund. Here's part of what they had to say starting with Mr. Hawkes.

SOUNDCLIP

BRENT HAWKES: I am so glad that this is over, so that I can return home and serve my church and my community as best that I can. And I'm sorry that I can't take questions, we have to get to the airport I have a flight.

REPORTER: How do you explain these charges sir? Did they come out of nowhere?

REPORTER TWO: Are you worried at all about your reputation following this?

H: I made the statement and I can make and I appreciate your questions.

DOUG ELLIOT: He’s not going to make any more statements today. My name is Doug Elliott, I'm the chair of the Brent Hawkes Support Fund and we have been supporting Reverend Hawks through this ordeal. We're very grateful for the decision this morning and I want to thank all of those who have provided financial and emotional support to Reverend Hawkes. It was our view from the beginning that this is a case that never should have been brought to trial. It's based on charges that have long since been repealed and on evidence that was very weak. As the judge said in his summary of his ruling, it's not clear what happened that night. And that is not the kind of case that ought to be brought to trial.

REPORTER TWO: What do you think that this does his reputation? As you mentioned quite prominent, he's a prominent pastor, but what does this do? I mean these charges were obviously unfounded…

DE: I think that his reputation has been cleared now the judge has found him not guilty. He was entitled to be presumed innocent, but has been has been observed many times the legal presumption of innocence sometimes gives way to a social presumption of guilt, especially in a case like this. A lot of people believe that charges would not be laid unless the police had strong evidence against the accused. Well, we've heard the judge today to say that there was not strong evidence against Reverend Hawkes.

KG: that was Doug Elliot, chair of the Brant Hawkes Support Fund and before him you heard Toronto pastor Brent Hawkes. Today Mr. Hawkes was found not guilty of sex crimes he was accused of committing in the 1970s.

[Music: Piano]

Pac-Man creator obit

[Sound: 8-bit arcade music]

KG: If you came of age in the Pac-Man era that may have been a sound you came to love to hate. You loved it because of what immediately preceded it. The thrill of gobbling up all those little yellow pellets Well deftly avoiding Blinky, Pinky, Inky and Clyde and of course you hated that sound because it signaled “game over” and you either had to surrender the machine to the person waiting behind you or fish in your pocket for another quarter and start from scratch. You probably didn't know it at the time, maybe not even now, but the man behind both your elation and your frustration was Masaya Nakamura. Mr. Nakamura died last week. He was 91. Well, Mr. Nakamura didn't invent Pac-Man. He hired the young programmer who did. The young Namco employee drew inspiration for the game's hero from a pizza with one slice missing. The name was derived from the Japanese word “pakku” meaning to “munch” or “gobble.” Of course, it goes without saying that soon after its release in 1980, Pac-Man exploded into a worldwide phenomenon and it didn't take long for someone to beat the game at its own game, so to speak. In 1982 computer science student Eric Schwibs told As It Happens host Elizabeth Gray how, over eight hours, he racked up such a high score that he caused the machine to melt down, but not before it exacted a toll on his own peace of mind.

SOUNDCLIP

ERIC SCWIBS: I've had a few nightmares about that, but not too many. I have had nightmares. If I play a really long game I can go home and I can dream about it.

ELIZABETH GRAY: What's the longest game you’ve played?

ES: That’s the eight hour game. Basically I was playing for only two or three hours at a time. I gave up the game and have two or three Men left. I just say I've had enough and I’d give up. You’d flip the machine over once and incentive to go on wasn't there because I doesn’t have that extra million digit. When I found out what the record was I found it is probably only about 2.7 million, so I thought I’d go for it.

EG: And then the screen split?

ES: Yeah, what happened is on the board 251 when the board started all of a sudden it was just on the left side of the screen it was half the maze. And on the right side, the machine spit out a whole bunch of numbers and letters and all sorts of meaningless symbols and I tried to move. And what happened was I cleared a few of the dots and all of a sudden I got sucked into one of the walls. It dragged me in and the two prongs on my mouth — two parts my mouth — got jammed into the wall and I couldn't move. And the monsters were going bananas; they were going all over. Around in a circles, falling off the screen where they're not supposed to go, going through walls, through letters and the machine just went bananas.

EG: How did you feel?

ES: Well, I was quite excited because I've only read of one other person that has done that. So it was quite a thrill.

EG: How did you stay awake that long and concentrate that long?

ES: I was just determined to go for it. I was pumped up and I had one of the guys here at the bar was giving me water the whole time. I must have drunk about a gallon of water during the game.

EG: No uppers though?

ES: No, well it was hot and there was a band playing. In fact the speaker was sitting behind me near my ear. So I was getting an ear-full of music and I was quite happy when the band got done.

KG: From our archives, that was computer science student Eric Schwibs in 1982, speaking with As It Happens host Elizabeth Gray after he caused a Pac-Man game to crash with his high score.

Part 2: US ban: senator, Roger Curry update, orangutan Tinder

US ban: senator

Guest: Ben Cardin

KG: Today, protests against US President Donald Trump's travel ban are moving from the streets to Capitol Hill. Democrats are working to delay confirmation hearings for the head of Health and Human Services, the head of Treasury and for attorney-general pick Jeff Sessions. This comes the day after Senator Dianne Feinstein introduced two bills to rescind the travel ban, bills that were promptly blocked by Senate Republicans. Senator Ben Cardin co-sponsored those bills. He's the top Democrat on the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

HM: Senator Cardin, the Republicans blocked immediate consideration of the bills you co-sponsored to rescind the President's executive order on immigration and refugees. So what is next?

BEN CARDIN: Well, obviously we're very concerned about this executive order. We want to get this executive order revoked either by the White House or by Congressional action. It doesn't speak to America's values. It speaks to concerns about who can come to America imposing a religious test. That's not what we stand for, so we’re going to do everything we can to get this issue before the Congress and before the American people so that we can repeal as quickly as possible.

HM: Why did you decide this was the way to fight the ban?

BC: Well, this a democratic country and we think the people of this nation understand that this is wrong. We go through a very extreme vetting process already in regards to refugees. The travel ban is looked upon I think globally as an attack upon Muslim majority countries. That's not in America's interests, that makes us less secure rather than more. So for all those reasons, we've got to do everything we can to make it clear to the international community that there's a large number of people in this country who disagree with the President's executive order and we're going to take every step we can to make sure that we get rid of it.

HM: You are the ranking Democrat on the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Was the committee consulted ahead of time or informed ahead of time about the ban?

BC: I'm not aware of any committee in Congress or any members of Congress on either side of the isle Democrat or Republican that was consulted in regards to the executive order before it was issued.

HM: Would that normally be something that would happen?

BC: Absolutely. Normally the President would consult not only with members of Congress, particularly from the relevant committees, but also with departments that have input with the legal counsel. I'm not sure that was done in any great detail before this executive order was issued.

HM: So why do you think that happened? Why was there no consultation in your opinion?

BC: Well, President Trump has already shown he said that as a candidate now he's showing as President that he's prepared to do things without consultation without running it through the experts in our agencies that could perhaps have helped him in developing our policy.

HM: So as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, what effect do you think the ban could have on the United States relationship with the rest of the world?

BC: Well I know it's going to have an adverse effect. It's going to have an adverse effect on countries that we need in fighting the extremists. It's going to isolate America. It's going to put us at risk in regards to being a recruitment tool for terrorists as well as Americans traveling abroad. All that I think puts our nation at greater risk and prevents the type of relationship with other countries, particularly Muslim-American countries that we need in order to fight extremists.

HM: So what are you hearing from your constituents in Maryland about this?

BC: Well, the numbers are great. Last night we had a rally on the steps of the Supreme Court. Many Marylanders were there. I talked to many Marylanders I've heard individual stories. And we hear different groups that are engaged and recognizing that this is something that is wrong and they're going to speak up out.

HM: On the one hand you have this public outcry, but on the other the latest polls shows a slight majority of Americans actually support this initiative by the President. Why do you think so many of them think this is actually a good idea?

BC: Well quite frankly, I think if we inform the American people that the vetting process that takes place today in regards to refugees the fact that we've had so few refugees come to this country from Syria that not one this cause a problem in our country as far as terrorism is concerned. That we point out that this is a nation that strengthens in our diversity. The fact that we've been able to grow the way we have because people have been willing to come to America. America's historic role in regards to refugees after World War Two, or roles in regards to Cambodia and Vietnam and Cuba. I think all that will help change the way that America's strength is in our values and one of our values is that we don't discriminate based upon ethnic background or religion.

HM: Last night, the acting attorney-general Sally Yates refused to defend the order. She was of course promptly fired by President Trump. The incoming attorney-general Jeff Sessions is expected to defend the order. Will Democrats attempt to block his nomination?

BC: I think there are many issues concerning Senator Sessions, whether he's the right person to lead our Department of Justice. I have concerns about his commitment to the Civil Rights Division of the attorney-general's office and his views on immigration. So there are many concerns that I think will be expressed and we expect that debate will take on the floor of the Senate as early next week.

HM: The blocking tactic though was something that was undertaken by Republicans and Democrats criticized that. Why would it be any different now for your party to do the same thing?

BC: I don't think we've ever criticized a member of the Senate voting the way he or she thinks is right. So I expect you're going to find many of us will use our votes to express our views and to carry out our constitutional responsibility.

HM: So it's an expression of your views, but given that the Republicans have control of the Executive and Congress can it realistically make any difference?

BC: Well, there's no question the Republicans have both houses of Congress and they have the White House, which means that we don't have all of the options that we would otherwise have. But there are checks and balances in our Constitutional system and we will use them the best that we can.

HM: In the coming days, what other efforts might we see you and your fellow Democrats take in in an effort to address some of these issues?

BC: Well, we've already used the floor of the Senate asking consideration of legislation. There will be amendment opportunities. The bills that will be bills we will able to vote on. There will be nominees that we can question. There will be opportunities and we will use every tool to support our country. We want our country to succeed. If President Trump moves in the right direction we'll be supporting him. But if we think he deviates we will use every tool at our disposal including our voices, including our votes, including the introduction of amendments and legislation to speak to America's values.

HM: Senator Cardin, thank you for making the time to speak with us. I Appreciate it.

BC: Oh my pleasure. Good talking to you.

HM: Thank you. Bye bye.

KG: Senator Ben Cardin is the top Democrat on the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. He was in Washington, D.C.

[Music: Percussive]

Rodger Curry update

Guest: Darragh MacIntyre

KG: The man's sudden appearance in Hereford, England stumps just about everyone. In fall of 2015, an elderly man was brought to a British care facility. He spoke with an odd accent and carried no identification. When asked who he was, the man offered a name, just once: Roger Curry. We told this story a year ago when his care givers were trying to find leads for his identity. Here's a short clip of what Mr. Curry sounded like then.

SOUNDCLIP

RODGER CURRY: Yeah sure, pretty good.

KG: In the months that followed, there were countless theories about how Mr. Curry landed in Hereford. And now new allegations that Roger Curry was abandoned there by members of his family. Darragh MacIntyre has been following this story for a year now. He's an investigative reporter with the BBC. We reached him in Belfast.

HM: Darragh MacIntyre, when you first heard that clip last year of Roger Curry speaking in that accent what intrigued you?

DARRAGH MACINTYRE: The case was completely baffling not just to me, but to the authorities. By the time I met him last March, he had been found, as it were for four months. And the police had checked DNA databases, they checked fingerprints, they'd gone through missing persons lists in Britain and abroad, in Canada and in the USA and had come up with nothing. The assumption then was because he spoke with an American accent that he was clearly from the continent of North America. There was no sense at that point whether he was Canadian or American; simply that he spoke with this North American accent. The other intriguing element to it when he was found he was wearing head to toe clothing that had been purchased from a Tesco Superstore. So everything about this case was completely intriguing.

HM: So if you could take us back to November of 2015, when this man first appeared in Hereford. What theories did people have about how he ended up there?

DM: Well, there are all sorts of theories. One theory was bizarrely that he might simply have bumped his head and become unconscious and then when he came to the first person he met was somebody who spoke with an American accent. Another theory was that he was from North America and had been staying with a caregiver, with a relative and the relative had passed away, but had not been found. And Roger had simply wandered off into the countryside around Hereford in the West of England. But no one actually I think came to the conclusion at that stage that he had been effectively dumped.

HM: And that's what you now believe. That he was abandoned by his own family, really much more disturbing than those other theories. So what have you learned about how he ended up where he was?

DM: Well, there was one big breakthrough in the case for us when a viewer of a BBC news bulletin was so moved by the story of this man with no real identity, Roger. But she spent hours and hours on the internet searching for any information she could find about this man, Roger Curry. So you've got to remember that at this the police weren't even convinced this was his name. He'd only use the name once when he was speaking to care staff at the care-home where he was staying. So this particular viewer eventually she comes up with a photograph of our Roger Curry from a 1958 high school yearbook from a school in a place called Edmond's, which is on the coast between Seattle the Canadian border.

HM: You had this yearbook photo you describe as “our Roger Curry” did you know instantly this was who it was?

DM: Not at all because the photograph was taken more than 50 years ago. However the likeness was there. So we just had that as a starting point. Then we started to tie his life together and we traced his movements down to a suburb of Los Angeles.

HM: So you get to this suburb, you start looking around and what do you find?

DM: We get to Roger's last listed address we discover in the midst of relative affluence we discovered this one abandoned, burnt-out house. We speak to neighbors and immediately they identify him. Almost immediately we realized we had stepped into a pretty dark back story that involved the burnt-out house. It involved a son, who had a record. Of one of the items we discovered on his record was that 17 years ago, his father had had to take a restraining order out against him, so we realised there wasn't going to be a happy ending to this tale.

HM: And you described as this burnt-out house. Roger's wife, as I understand it was actually living at the house?

DM: Well I’ll just take you back a little bit. Tragedy and illness have really beset this family, while Roger has dementia, his wife is also ill. In November 2014, their house burned down in the middle of the night. The couple weren't at home at the time, but they did have to move out. Neighbors didn't see Roger again until August 2015, when they found the vulnerable couple camping out in the yard of their burnt-out house. The son, Kevin had been bringing them food and they appear to be locked in behind the chain-mail fence around the house.

HM: After that the neighbors report what? Did they notice Roger wasn't around?

DM: Well, Roger next appears on the streets of Hereford. Three months later.

HM: Now you have suggested — you have found — that he had his family allegedly abandoned him. What's your evidence?

DM: The L.A. authorities have written how they believe that Roger Carey was surreptitiously taken to England and abandoned by his wife Mary-Jo and by his son Kevin. And all the evidence that we have seen supports that. I mean we've spoken to Kevin himself and Kevin told me he wouldn't speak on camera, but he did tell me that he had taken his dad to England. Then he told me a story, which wasn't very convincing about how his dad had become ill and had to be taken to the hospital. But he couldn't explain why the family make no attempt to speak to Roger Curry in the eight months that he ended up staying in England.

HM: Do you know why they chose England?

DM: I don't know for certain, but I do believe that the family has a connection with England.

HM: Has anyone been charged in connection with Roger Curry’s abandonment?

DM: One man in Britain has been arrested, but he is on continuing bail. But he has not been charged yet.

HM: So where is Roger Curry now?

DM: Roger right now, is in a care-home in Los Angeles. He was flown back I should say in July of last year and then pretty much immediately taken to a care-home in Los Angeles. I visited him there and I have to say that while I am certain that his medical needs and basic need are looked after. The same type of intimate attentive care that I witnessed when I visited him in his care-home in Britain was not evident when I saw him. His hair was matted, He was unshaven, there was a wound on top of his head, which had not healed and I also saw that there was a pillow on his bed which had blood stains on it. I did see him a second time and he had been tidied up.

HM: But it sounds like you don't think he's in a better place than when he was in the U.K.?

DM: No I don't. You're left wondering after this particular case whether in fact Roger Curry's best interests were served by him being properly identified. We hoped it would end with a reconciliation with his family, with a big happy reunion. We didn't expect it to end like this, No not at all.

HM: Mr. MacIntyre, thank you very much for talking to us.

DM: Not a problem. Thank you.

HM: All right. Goodbye.

DM: Goodbye now.

KG: Darragh MacIntyre is an investigative reporter with the BBC. He was in Belfast. For more on the story, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Sombre]

Orangutan Tinder

Guest: Mariska Kret

KG: Dating has changed a lot over the years. These days, you sign up for an online app, swipe left or right until you find someone you're interested in. That's not just for us humans. Now researchers in the Netherlands are using this approach with another great ape. The experiment is called “Tinder for Orangutans” and it will have an 11-year-old female use a touch screen to select a mate before meeting him in real life. Mariska Kret is the lead researcher on this project. We reached her via Skype in Amsterdam.

HM: Professor Kret, why is the zoo having a female orangutan look for a mate on a touch screen?

MARISKA KRET: Well, you know zoos are working really hard to protect endangered species like the orangutan and they collaborate with each other on breeding programs. So it's often necessary to transfer individuals from one zoo to another. Like in a wild or anything you know they don't stay with their parents forever. But these transfers unfortunately often fail and it would be very very useful to develop a method with which you can predict the success of the transfer and actually let apes speak out their preferences, which individuals they might like or which individuals they might not like before actually meeting those individuals.

HM: So how does the process actually work? Does she swipe left or right. Like on some human apps?

MK: Well, you know eventually that could be one option. But this project is still really in its infancy, it actually started just last week. It's part of a much bigger project actually where we study how different species of great apes receive the emotions of conspecifics and we do that by having them perform experiments for psychological tasks on computer screens and touch screens. So we measure how they are looking at the emotions of one another and which characteristics the pay attention to for example.

HM: So you're actually showing her potential mates at this point right?

MK: Exactly. Yeah. And the first question actually is what grabs her attention? Are they interested in emotions of conspecifics? ?hat are they looking at exactly? Which individuals are looking at? And does that say something about their preferences? So all of those questions we will first have to answer right? Before we can finally really develop that method.

HM: What kind of potential mates have you shown her so far?

MK: Unfortunately we took the experimental setup that we’ve using for two years without any problem. And then on day two, one of the female orangutans actually broke the complete set up. So we've just been training the orangutans on the use of the touch screen in a very very first step. And now we have to replace all the equipment. And so we’ve contacted a new company that promised me to really deliver a very solid touch screen. They said you can even drop a bowling ball on it and it will still not crack. So I'm looking forward to that and then yeah, I will have to train the orangutans you know to use the touch screen, to touch it and to look at the pictures that I'll be showing on the screen. And then in the final step, I will investigate preference.

HM: What is the name of the orangutan who broke the screen?

MK: It was Samantha.

HM: Samantha, is it possible Samantha was just so excited by what she was seeing she was hitting the screen extra hard?

MK: Actually it's even worse than that. So my PDHD student, who is conducting this research, she was maybe a little bit slow with starting up the computer program. So she was waiting for the experiment to start and she began to get impatient and started playing with the screen and then she managed to crack the screen actually, so she didn’t even start. But she had a lot of fun breaking the screen.

HM: I can imagine.

MK: Yeah, we were quite shocked. But it's interesting to see the difference between the great apes because we're working in in the same zoo with the bonobos in that I worked with them for two years. And they are always so patient and so kind and so interested in the task and to see pictures of other bonobos on the screen. So I was quite surprised to see this behavior.

HM: It's funny because as you said you were looking really into the role emotions play in these animal relationships and then you see this kind of excited response from this orangutan. Is that potentially something that would play into your research on mating?

MK: Yeah. Definitely, so there is so little known about the orangutan and also about the bonobo. So we hardly know how to perceive the emotions of conspecifics and how they pick out a Mate. We simply don't know what they pay attention to, but it’s very very important if we want to protect the species right? And also from a fundamental point of view, what I'm really very much interested in is how emotions work? Also where do our emotions come from? So I take an evolutionary perspective to compare how we process emotions in comparison to… well… our closest relatives: the great apes.

HM: Now any human being who has used a dating app or even been shown a photograph of a potential partner knows that you don't always know how you're going to feel until you actually are face to face. Do you think that's potentially going to be the case with the orangutans?

MK: It's better than nothing. Finally I can design a task where I can really measure preferences of the orangutans with whom they want to be with. If you prefer a group of orangutans in Cologne better than the group of orangutans Antwerp for example and then maybe we can also set up a Skype setting to really observe behaviors. And then finally we can see if that predicts good relationship building in real life.

HM: So you would see Samantha having Skype interactions with some of these other potential mates?

MK: Sure, I think she'll love it. They are interested in a screen.

HM: Do you think she'll actually be able to find a mate this way?

MK: I really hope so. I think she will be ready for it.

HM: It’s entertaining to hear the story, but I'm sure it's important in terms of the research you're doing as well. Thank you very much for talking to us. It's fascinating.

MK: Thanks for calling.

HM: OK bye.

KG; Mariska Kret is the lead researcher of “Tinder for Orangutans,” which is part of a larger project on apes and their emotions. We reached her via Skype in Amsterdam.

Part 3: Idaho moose rescue, New Brunswick power outages, app teens

Idaho moose rescue

Guest: Julie Emerick

KG: A barking dog alerted Julie Emerick in the middle of the night that something was up. Soon after, there would be several people in her basement trying to get an intruder — of sorts — up the stairs and out the door. To explain, we've reached Ms. Emerick at her home in Hailey, Idaho.

HM: Ms. Emerick, what did you find after your dog woke you up on the weekend?

JULIE EMERICK: I looked out my window and there was a very large Moose head about a foot and a half - two feet away from the window.

HM: And what happened next?

JE: Well, I turned around to grab my phone to take a picture of this sight. And when I turned back around the moose had taken a step forward and try to eat off of a bush right outside the bedroom window and then she fell into a window well right below my window. That is the access to a bedroom down below me in our basement.

HM: Did it make a very loud crashing noise?

JE: Yes. And she cried terribly and started trashing. And I ran and got my husband, I called 911 and by the time I came back she was gone. My husband ran downstairs to see if the window had been broken. And that's when he came back up and said she's standing in the bedroom downstairs.

HM: What did you think at that moment?

JE: You know between my husband, the 911 operator and I we were all like OK. Everybody is awake right? We're awake, this is really happening and he had to close the doors so the moose was contained in that bedroom and had not broken the window. The latch was not hooked on the window and it swung open and she stepped right in or kind of fell probably backwards in, we're speculating. We were just like oh my gosh, now what? Now what? And they dispatched the Hailey Police Department and then the real fun began.

HM: How was the moose acting all through this time?

JE: You know this has been the funniest comment about all. Is that if you ever had to have a moose in your house, this was the most polite move you could ever imagine having come in your home. She was quiet with the exception of charging at the police officers a couple of times because they were trying to get her to go upstairs. She was mellow the entire time. And for a good period time she actually laid down in the family room on the ground. You know the whole ordeal went until about 5:45 in the morning. So it started at about 2:30 a.m.

HM: How do you try to get a moose to go up a set of stairs?

JE: Well, because the moose was in the bedroom and the exterior room that you know was kind of like a family room had a bunch of furniture in it. So we moved it all up against the wall and kind of tried to create kind of a barrier that she would go towards the door that would go out of the basement and up the stairs toward the front door. And then the officers went down into the bedroom. One of them opened the door from the other side. So she went into the family room and then they tried to you know yell at her and bang on the walls and try to get her to go up the stairs. And every time they would do that she'd turn around and charge them, so they'd run back and hide behind the door again. She would not go upstairs. So we waited about two-and-a-half to three hours for Fish and Game to come with a tranquilizer gun and they shot her in the rump and about you know not even five minutes it was you know probably 30-45 seconds. She stumbled a little bit. We were all upstairs. We could you know be down there. That's way too dangerous. And then we heard her kind of thunk against the wall and then he said OK, you can all come down now and so we all got to go down and see this beautiful creature, who was very scared. It was actually a little heart wrenching watch. But they very gently got her on to a big tarp that had handles. Eight police officers and a Fish and Game patrol picked her up and got her up the staircase and took her outside in the streets and laid it down and about fifteen minutes later, she stood up and ran away.

HM: It sounds like a big task to haul a moose up the stairs in your house?

JE: Yes. Yes, it was. They speculate around 600 pounds.

HM: Wow. Any of them ever heard of anything like this before?

JE: Actually the Fish and Game guy that was here. I don't know his name to give him credit, but he had an incident last year with an elk. I think it was a juvenile elk, so not as big had gotten into a basement, had done a ridiculous amount of damage before they actually got the elk to go out of a door that was in the basement. So they did find get it to go out, but it did a lot of damage. I had a really really polite moose and all she did was leave a lot of moose poop all over the basement.

HM: I was going to ask, a lot of poop, any other damage?

JE: No.

HM: Really?

JE: Which is just mind blowing. I mean literally by that evening, a friend of ours who cleans carpet had come and cleaned the carpets, furniture was all put back into place and we were doing quite a bit of laundry because she did you know wreck a little havoc in my son's bedroom, which is where she came in through the window at. You know it was done. It was all cleaned up and we all stood there sort of scratching our heads going there was a moose scene here tonight.

HM: I trust your son was in the room when she came crashing through the window?

JE: You know he wasn't. Any the other night of the week he would have been there. He just happened to be at a friend's house that night and it would have been very very terrifying had he been in that bed.

HM: I can imagine. Is there any sense like are you're hearing from the Fish and Wildlife people why this moose would have been so close to your house in the first place?

JE: Yeah, we're having a really really epic snow load here in in Idaho, especially up here in the mountains where I'm at. I'm hearing people say it's been 40 years and could have this kind of snow and it's really caused the wildlife here to kind of come in for one, food sources. They can't get to their food sources because of the snow and this moose has been hanging around our neighborhood you know for a couple of weeks now and I actually have another picture of what I'm pretty sure is her just walking down the side of the road you know like a week and a half ago I took the picture.

HM: So she's still hanging around?

JE: I haven't seen her. I've not seen her and I have barricaded the window well now. So there will be no more wildlife falling in the window well.

HM: Ms. Emerick, thanks very much for telling us your tale.

JE: You're welcome. Thank you.

HM: Bye bye.

JE: Bye bye.

KG: Julie Emerick found a moose in her basement over the weekend. She was in Hailey, Idaho. If you'd like to see a video of official carrying the moose out of Ms. Emerick's house visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar]

First Nations suicides

KG: The meeting started as meetings normally do. There was a lot on the agenda at the Nishnawabe Aski Nation winter chiefs assembly in Thunder Bay today. But 20-year-old Valerie Ooshag changed that agenda. Over the weekend, yet another Indigenous person died by suicide. It was the fourth suicide this month including two 12-year-old girls from Wapekeka. After a moment of silence, here is what Ms. Ooshag said.

SOUNDCLIP

VALERIE OOSHAG: We all know that we have lost a lot of people. Even before I was alive, there's suicide. But I know for a fact that it was not talked about as much as it should be. Our youth need to know that our leadership is there for them to take care of them. Because I was one of those youths that used to be suicidal and now I help people back home. We need to come together and have our youth involved to let you all know what they want. What they need to take care of themselves. And like some people don't have parents to take care of them, so I think we got to acknowledge our youth. Because we're going to be the leaders of tomorrow. We need to share knowledge with our youth, show them there's a light in life. That there's better ways to cope than taking your own life. I am sure we have all been there at one point. And we're still here today. We've got to show our youth that it's worth living. I work as a counselor back in my reserve like a mental health counselor. And I wonder when someone attempts suicide they get sent out for like a few days and they get sent back to what? What do they have to go back to? We need more resources or even just a safe place for youth to go. When I heard about the deaths in Wapekeka and Deer Lake, I was very emotional. I did not know the people, but I could feel the pain and that was just the week after an accident happened back home. And it's so sad to hear that it's still happening. So I ask you all, all leaders, what are you going to do?

KG: That was 20-year-old Valerie Ooshag, a mental health worker from Fort Hope First Nation and a member of the Nishnawabe Aski Nation youth council. After she spoke today at the meeting in Thunder Bay, chiefs changed their meeting agenda to include an emergency discussion of suicide.

[Music: Electronic]

New Brunswick power outage

Guest: Jim Lebreton

KG: People in New Brunswick are dealing with the provinces worst power outage ever. As you've heard on the news, they even called in the army to help people who are stranded. The ice storm hit last week and knocked out power for more than 200,000 customers. Workers are repairing lines, but 14,000 homes are still without power. Many of those affected are in New Brunswick’s Acadian Peninsula. Jim Lebreton is staying at a local shelter along with his wife and daughter. He was in Pont Landry.

HM: Mr. Lebreton, How are you managing at that shelter you're staying in?

JIM LEBRETON: well I'm here. It's my third night that I'm going to sleep here the shelter and the people here help us a lot. And like they say we do breakfast for the person, we do dinner and we do supper. It is always 40-60 persons every morning. It can be 40 people eating and then dinner time same thing you know and all that all day. And the people really do appreciate it. And lots of people — those who have electricity — and can bring in food, they bring it in. with those food we give like Christmas box of surplus that we have today, that's what we're doing with it. We take all the names of the person that had Christmas box and we do that again for them and we called them today and they can come and get those boxes today for a person who needs it.

HM: I can hear people behind you. What's the atmosphere like there in that shelter?

JL: you know they’re talking about that they just they never saw that they’ve never seen this happen here since maybe 30-40 years. And some of them are eating and talking between themselves and telling their stories. But nobody has the moral down. Everybody seems to be OK.

HM: Yeah. So can you take us back to last week and the point where you realized you were going to have to leave your home?

JL: Yeah that's it. Like I had an older sister stay with me and when sometimes a little older you know they don't want to go out of the house, so we couldn't leave them because of that. But we stayed there three days and then my other sister came down and they convinced her to go to another place where there was heat and something. So when she did that, me and my wife and my daughter came here.

HM: How were you keeping warm those first few days?

JL: Well, we just had a little fireplace. OK, just a little fireplace and we had a little generator. We just put that down. But it just gave a little bit of heat just to stay you know. So we had a little hotplate there that we could do tea on and something like that. But we were glad to come here.

HM: Yeah. Now I understand your daughter has special needs. What does it mean for you to bring her there?

JL: Yeah, that's what was most important. That's why I wanted to get out of the house. She has a dislocation of the two hips and she have Down Syndrome. But she's doing well, she really do as well.

HM: She's coping OK with all those people around?

JL: Oh yeah. She's still OK. She just worried after we left the house we had a cat at the house there and she was worried about her cat. So I went in there and with her and showed that the cat was all right.

HM: Is the cat a little chilly maybe?

JL: No, he’s got his really big blanket there and he's all right. We got food for him and she would get him water and everything.

HM: OK well, you mentioned taking gift boxes or food boxes to people who are stranded in their home. How many people are you helping out?

JL: Oh we don't ask question when somebody's here we don't ask them do you do or don't you have electricity. We give them a box no questions asked.

HM: What kind of stories are you hearing from the people that you go out and talk to?

JL: Well, we're all in the same thing you know. But a lot of people are already receiving electricity like just about five minutes ago a road back home only about five minutes from us, they just received it.

HM: Does a cheer go up when people get their power back?

JL: Jesus Yeah, that's for sure. We had one person here, she works for nothing you know and she's here since the first day and she just received electricity and she went right away up to her house. She turned on the heat, but she's going to come back here until the house is heated real good then tonight; she's going to go home and do her things you know. But she never stopped she was here in person with us and helping us. And even if she was in like in the same conditions.

HM: Yeah, it’ll be nice for her to be sleeping in her own bed tonight.

JL: Exactly. And we did have one person here that we had sent home. He was older person and he was on dialysis you know. So every two or four days he had to go get dialysis. So we called some special ambulance and some special people and they came to bring him in bring him into the hospital and they checked in on him to see that everything is all right.

HM: To make sure he gets the dialysis?

JL: Exactly right.

HM: So Premier Brian Gallant said today that some people are going to be stuck without power till Thursday. What do you think of that?

JL: Well, there's nothing that we can do. We know they're doing the best considering the power system, but the only thing that we hope is they help the families that need financial help. You know not only do this and do that, but they really need to help the families that need financial help.

HM: And is that because of the things they've lost in terms of food and maybe pipe damage?

JL: Exactly. There's not only the electricity problems it is those who really needed it. There's a lot of people that are having a hard time and they need the help. Like let's say they go to the food bank if they can help them financially they go to the store and buy their own the things that they need and everything you know. That would be a good good plus if they can get that.

HM: Have you heard of anybody having damage to their homes? Either through the roof or anything else?

JL: Oh yeah. I heard someone that had the pol that gives electricity to the house...

HM: The hydro pole.

JL: So that came right off and they had to pay that of their pocket to get it fixed. And NB Power doesn't fix that and the insurance won't cover that. So that's the person who has money to do it. That's all right. But the poor guy who is on welfare he going to have a hard time getting that fix you know.

HM: Right. And generally are you. Are you OK with how the government has handled this crisis or do you think they could have done something differently besides the money?

JL: Tell the truth. I know they're trying to do their best. That's for sure. They might have able to do a little bit better, but it's hard to say. My most important thing is that they help the persons that really are in need.

HM: Are you surprised it's taken this long?

JL: No because it was really really bad. You know it's more than 500 polls break everywhere and it's a hard time in winter. They're doing the best.

HM: Anything good come out of this?

JL: Yeah, for me more friends even learn to have respect more for the persons and everything and yeah everybody's helping each other and I think something good is going to come out of this.

HM: Mr. Lebreton, thank you very much. I hope you get back home soon.

JL: OK thank you very much. Bye bye.

KG: Jim Lebreton is a resident of Pont Laundry in New Brunswick’s Acadian Peninsula. He and his family have been living at a local shelter since losing power at their home last week.

[Music: Marching band]

AI poker player

KG: He did it or she did it? No “it” did it. Libratus, an artificial intelligence computer program has beaten four of the world's top poker players at a tournament in Pittsburgh — human poker players. Last week, midway through the no limit Texas Hold'em competition. Helen spoke with the creator of Libratus, Tuomas Sandholm. At the time, he told us that if libratus was to win it would be a major milestone. He said that while AI programs have defeated humans in games like chess and go, poker is different because players don't see each other's hands and bluffing is the key to the game. Today Jimmy Chou, one of the defeated human players said quote, “The first couple of days we had high hopes. And every time we find a weakness it learns from us. And the weakness disappears the next day,” end quote. Go libratus… I think!

[Music: Marching band]

Minister learns English

If you were looking for kind of National Revenue Minister this month, you wouldn't have spotted her in Ottawa or her Quebec riding. Diane Lebouthillier spent all month in Fredericton, New Brunswick working on her English and it was one of the most difficult assignments she's had since she took on the revenue portfolio in 2015, the unilingual Francophone minister has had to decline requests for English broadcast interviews including one from As It Happens. But after living with a host family and taking a language boot camp, she did her first English language interview with CBC Fredericton. Here's part of that conversation with the CBC’s Jacques Poitras.

SOUNDCLIP

DIANE LEBOUTHILLIER: I have really good host family. I get up early and I participate, wash the dishes around the table during the supper. I spoke with my family and for me it's important to practice my English. And really I appreciate my host family.

JAQUES POITRAS: And the rule is all English all the time, right?

DL: All the time. 24 hours by day and seven day by week and it’s not easy. The first the first week, when I return to the host family, I'm dead. Go to the sleep for all the night. It's not easy, but the effort for me is really important.

JP: So now I'm going to give you a test.

DL: Oh boy! This interview is a test for me.

JP: So I'll give you some sentences and you can try them in English. OK? [Speaking: French]

DL: You call at the Canadian Revenue Agency and press two.

KG: That was the CBC’s Jacques Poitras speaking to Canada's Minister of National Revenue Diane Lebouthillier.

[Music: Jazz]

App teens

Guest: Zach Rooney

KG: Teenagers are always being told to get off the Internet. So these ones did. Zach Rooney, Cooper Gagnon and Lochlan Graham are students at Lockview High School in Fall River in Nova Scotia. They've developed an app called “Off Net” that connects to the Internet without a WiFi or data connection. And their motivation for creating it was much loftier than simply keeping themselves online at all times. We reached Zach Rooney in Fall River.

HM: Zach, how does “Off Net” work?

ZACH ROONEY: So “Off Net” works by sending text messages from the user to a server we have set up. So for example, if you were out on the go and you did not have a data plan and you did not have WiFi you can then text us saying, hey “Off Net” what's the weather for you know Mississauga, Ontario? And within seconds we will have a program that will text you back and give you the weather for Mississauga, Ontario.

HM: So is it just basic facts that I can search using this?

ZR: That's right yep. So right now we have the technology to get news articles, whether, Wikipedia articles, Twitter yeah those are the main ones.

HM: OK, so what sparked the idea of creating a text-based app like this?

ZR: Yes. So Cooper and I, we were in grade 10. So this is May 2015, and we entered into what’s called a Hackathon and we had a week to create something cool that was techy. And Cooper and I, we both experienced the bad WiFi is our school. So what happens is the school will block certain sites and the WiFi will turn on and off. So we decided OK, we need to have a solution to this problem. So we decided to create an application that would allow people to access certain parts of the Internet without even being connected to the Internet.

HM: How complicated was it to figure out how to build it?

ZR: Complicated. Cooper and I, we started this out and Cooper did all of the back-end server-side development. So he is the one who created the program to read the text message and send out the relevant information. And I’ve done the front-end of the development, so that means I have done the app you can download on the Play Store.

HM: How has it changed from your original conception to how it is now?

ZR: So we’ve added a lot more services. We started out with just Reddit and from then to now, we have added news articles, Wikipedia, weather, Twitter, definitions as well.

HM: And you were just 15 when this started right?

ZR: That's right. I was 15 then and I'm 17 now.

HM: What kind of mentorship have you had to guide you along and in building “Off Net”?

ZR: My dad is an entrepreneur here in Nova Scotia and we've also reached out to a few other tech companies in Nova Scotia and they have been very helpful in mentoring us.

HM: Was it expensive to do this?

ZR: Not at all. The only investment we really put into this is our time. We have a lot of sweat-equity in to this.

HM: Right. So in trying to get that on the market, have you found out if anybody else has created something similar?

ZR: We have found one other one that is that is even slightly similar to what we do. It's a company based in France. What they do is they do almost the same as us, but they charge way too much for it. So we've found a way to make it much much cheaper.

HM: Why is it important to keep that cost down?

ZR: Because we want to attack the developing market right? There are loads and loads of people who don't have access to the Internet, right? Something that we here in Canada take for granted and we want to be able to implement this app over in developing countries, so we can get that next billion users onto the Internet.

HM: So it's not just developing the app that has to be have low cost, but also giving it to people at either low cost or free. What's the plan?

ZR: Our plan is probably to go with a low cost. We haven't really discussed this very much with the team and other companies. Our goal is to either get it you know super cheap or free for those people.

HM: And what difference do you think it might make to the lives of those who would start using it?

ZR: Someone out in let's say Ecuador might not have this kind of access. They might not know what's going on in the world. And I think that everyone should know what's going on in the world with the Internet.

HM: So what's the next step for you in achieving that and getting this out into the world?

ZR: I think our next step is to partner with a company that would have the resources to be able to implement our app in developing countries.

HM: What message do you have for other young people who are either on their own or as part of a Hackathon might have an idea?

ZR: You know I just try. You know Cooper and I, we had no idea that would blow up so big. All we wanted was a simple solution to our high school WiFi. And we were at that time, we never would have thought that we could use this to help other people in the world.

HM: Is it true that Chris Hadfield tweeted about this?

ZR: Yes, it is true that Chris Hadfield tweeted about this. It's funny because all three of us, we all slept in this morning of course and I woke up and our phones were buzzing off the hook right? And lo and behold they got a text from my friend that said you know hey Zach, you got a tweet from Chris Hadfield. I'm like you mean the astronaut? They're like, yeah the astronaut. I’m like whoa, that’s so cool.

HM: That's your biggest high profile endorsement so far?

ZR: That is, yeah.

HM: Well that's great. Congratulations. A pleasure to talk to you.

ZR: Thank you. You as well.

HM: OK. Bye Zach.

ZR: Bye bye.

KG: That was Zach Rooney one of the developers of the app “Off Net”. He was in Fall River, Nova Scotia.

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Jan. 31, 2017 episode transcript

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