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The AIH Transcript for April 19, 2018

Hosts: Susan Bonner and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

SUSAN BONNER: Hello, I'm Susan Bonner sitting in for Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

SB: Alchemical reaction. She came in third in her event at the 2012 Olympics, but after two athletes tested positive for steroids bronze has turned to gold for a Canadian weightlifter Christine Girard.

JD: Cases case closed. He was charged for taking a 2-4 of beer across provincial borders. And tonight a New Brunswick man who fought all the way to the top says today's Supreme Court decision was a cold one.

SB: He's been around the blocks a few times. And tonight an Icelandic teenager tells us how his gigantic Lego replica of the Titanic has helped him deal with his autism.

JD: Bring her back. Months after a Canadian-Iranian Professor ended up dead in Evin Prison his widow is stuck in limbo in Tehran. And her sons are pleading with authorities to help her return to Canada.

SB: If you’re stuck in Folsom Prison Time stopped dragging on. At least it did for the length of this week's concert by the legendary Mexican group Los Tigres del Norte, fifty years after Johnny Cash's famous show there.

JD: And…Smooth snailing. They can't do a jeté and any pirouette will be slimy and accidental — but our guest still hopes the audience will be enthralled by this weekend's six-hour ballet performed by 176 snails. As It Happens: The Thursday Edition. Radio that assures anyone watching a slow snail ballet dancer — this tutu shall pass.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Christine Girard Olympic Gold, Lego Titanic

Christine Girard Olympic Gold

Guest: Christine Girard

SOUNDCLIP

ANNOUNCER: Oh, unlucky. She misses out on the silver medal, but she’ll be delighted she gets the bronze medal, and after the disappointment of finishing fourth in Beijing Christine Girard goes home with a medal.

JD: That is a clip from back in 2012 when Christine Girard became the first Canadian woman to win a medal in Olympic weightlifting at the London Games. It was a bronze, but today that bronze turned to gold. Because back in 2016 two of Ms. Girard’s competitors, from Russia and Kazakhstan, were found to have used anabolic steroids and were later stripped of their medals. But it took until today for the International Olympic Committee to officially confirm that Christine Girard would be receiving the gold. We reached Ms. Girard at her home in Vancouver.

SB: Congratulations, Christine.

CHRISTINE GIRARD: Thank you so much.

SB: What's going through your mind now that you know for sure you'll be getting that gold medal?

CG: I'm actually pretty excited. It's been a long wait. We learned that about two years ago that with all the positive tests, so it's been a long wait but I'm really excited because now the next step is to actually receive the medal and I can already call me an Olympic champion. So it's a really exciting day for me.

SB: Christine, take us back to that moment in 2012 when you were receiving the Bronze medal. How much sweeter would it have been if you were getting a gold around your neck, the gold you deserved?

CG: It's a good question. Unfortunately I will never know. And that's what happened with doping, right? It steals a lot of moments from a lot of clean athletes. I'm not the only one in this situation. The only thing I can say is that it feels really great to be recognized, even years later, for what I've done as a clean athlete. Receiving that gold medal will mean a lot to me and I think it should mean a lot for Canadians because it's the win of our values and within our country we believe in true sport. So it's a huge win for all of us.

SB: Why did it take so long for you to be officially awarded this gold?

CG: Good question. I knew it would have been a long process because it's a lot of it's a lot of paperwork and they had a lot of positive tests, but the IOC has been working really hard on that and they also had to organize the Winter Olympics and I understand they had a lot on their plate and they’ve been working really hard to get that done. So it has been taking a long time but I completely respect that. And I'm just thrilled that we're finally there.

SB: As well as being an Olympic champion you are very patient. And this isn't the first time this has happened to you. Tell us about the medal for 2008?

CG: Actually, yeah I learned about both medals the same summer in 2016. We learned that it was in the process and that was the possibility. That fourth place in Beijing was really hard for me to take. And it's a big reason why I kept going until London. So yeah I will receive the bronze medal actually at the same time as the gold medal, although the bronze medal is already in the country. So yeah, it will be good to have two in one.

SB: I bet. Do you feel like you missed out on opportunities, on sponsorships, on the perks that come your way from being a gold medal winner?

CG: For sure. I mean, I would have been one out of two gold medal in London, so obviously I would have had a different coverage, different opportunity for sponsorship, a lot of opportunity that I missed out on. But at the same time I think receiving my medals now gives a much stronger message and it means more to me now than it would back then. So I want to focus on that positive side of it and keep going.

SB: Well good for you for focusing on the positive side. But do you ever think about the money that you lost because of this?

CG: I’d rather not think about it too much. It's obviously quite a bit most likely but it's hard we can really get lost in the ifs and wonder. So I’d rather focus on what's coming out and what's there for me in the future.

SB: How do you feel about the athletes who cheated you out of your gold medal in 2012?

CG: Actually I feel bad for them because, as we can tel,l I'm pretty sure it wasn't their decision but it was their country’s decision. And it's just so sad that they had to go through that and that they damaged their body for a really long time and it makes me so proud to be Canadian because I never got offered anything and I started to be tested when I was 14. I'm just so glad to come from our country. It makes me really really proud to be Canadian.

SB: At the time did you suspect that your opponents were cheating?

CG: Well, the correlation between doping and results in weightlifting is really strong, like it shows right away and it makes a huge difference. So we always knew that it was a strong temptation for a lot of countries to cheat their way through. So we suspected it but what really matters is that now we know that it was not worth it. Like, I got there the clean way and I really hope that those medals show to the world that it's possible to reach the highest level while staying true to your values and true to yourself.

SB: One of the athletes who beat you in London is Russian and the Russian team was banned from the most recent Winter Olympics. They could not participate under the Russian flag. What do you think should happen at the Summer Games?

CG: A good question. I wish I could have a strong opinion on it but I know that the IOC has a lot more information than I have and I don't feel like I have enough information to be able to judge what should or shouldn't be done. The only thing I really hope for is that the message goes strong to those countries who invest money into hiding doping and that of promoting clean sport. It's also for those athletes that has to go through that. So I really hope that the message is sent strongly that those countries that do systematic doping understand it and changed their way of doing it.

SB: What do you know about how you'll be presented with your two medals?

CG: Well, I didn't think about it too much until it was official, because I didn't want to have big dreams. But now we're just starting to talk with the COC to see how I can receive those medals and what kind of ceremony I can have. And what's the most important for me to be able to share that moment with as many people as possible. I want my family, my friends to be there, of course, everybody that helped me to get there. But also I want to share that moment with people who believe in clean sport because, like I said, it's the win of our country, it’s that win of our values and I want to be able to share that with as many people as possible.

SB: You want a big party.

CG: I want something that people will remember — that it is worth it to stay honest and to stay to stay true to yourself.

SB: Well you deserve a big party and congratulations once again.

CG: Thank you so much.

SB: Goodbye.

CG: Bye.

JD: Weightlifter Christine Girard is now officially an Olympic gold medal winner. The IOC confirmed that today — six years after she competed at the 2012 Olympic Games.

[Music: Lo-fi Hip-Hop]

House of Commons: Facebook

JD: Facebook's apology tour arrived in Ottawa today. The company sent one of its Canadian executives before a Commons committee and had another appear via video link from California. They wanted to say they were sorry, specifically for what they call the allegations that they had allowed the personal data of hundreds of thousands of their Canadian users to be Hoovered up by political consulting firm Cambridge Analytica. They also wanted to say that they were sorry for keeping that a secret for more than two years. What they didn't seem to want to say was anything about the new privacy protection laws that Europe just imposed on companies like Facebook. Nor were they terribly forthcoming about reports that Facebook has rerouted hundreds of millions of accounts to avoid those new rules. Here's NDP MP Charlie Angus.

SOUNDCLIP

CHARLIE ANGUS: Facebook in my region has been revolutionary. I represent a region that's bigger than the United Kingdom. I have communities that have no access to roads. I have some of the poorest communities in North America. The access of Facebook for young Indigenous people, for people contacted my office — I don't use the phone anymore. If I’ve got a medical crisis in Kashechewan I get a message on Facebook, they get a response. So the power of Facebook to do good is incredible. But we are here because the power for Facebook to be misused to do terrible things is also at issue. And it is the question before us is the failure of Facebook to respect the absolute power it has. A sense in some ways that it thinks domestic laws are somehow quaint. I was very surprised this morning to learn that Facebook has shifted 1.5 billion users from Facebook Ireland to Facebook California to escape the GDPR. So Mr. Chan, will you tell this committee that as an act of good faith you will immediately implement the GDPR for all users in Canada for Facebook?

KEVIN CHAN: I think I'll let Rob address that one.

CA: You represent Facebook Canada. He represents Facebook California. I want to know will you put the GDPR — will you commit today so that you don't have to be regulated to do it? You will self-regulate freely in Canada with the GDPR, yes or no?

KC: Sir, I'm not aware of the point that you just raised, I'm not familiar with that point that you say you've just learned.

CA: We're talking about 1.5 billion users that were shifted to escape European law. Simple question, will you just say we'll implement in Canada and then we can move on to the next question?

ROBERT SHERMAN: Mr. Angus, our plan is to provide the same privacy controls and settings that we're offering in GDPR, the same engagements on the same topics to people in Canada that we're offering in GDPR.

CA: Will you implement the full GDPR? You're telling us you’re going to do tweaks. Why would you need to move 1.5 billion users out of the range of European law?

RS: So I want to be clear. Prior to today, prior to our data policy changes, Canadians were served by Facebook Inc. in California, and the entity with which they contract as Facebook Inc. that remains the same so there's no change with regard to Canadians.

JD: Facebook's Deputy Privacy Officer Robert Sherman and Kevin Chan, Facebook Canada's head of public policy, fielding questions from a somewhat frustrated looking Charlie Angus of the NDP. Mr. Angus did however have more success than our colleagues in the parliamentary press corps. Here they are trying to get some answers from Mr. Chan after the Committee wrapped up.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: Mr. Chan, you’re the one that’s testifying so we want to talk to you. What about the local block status scrape? Why aren’t you sharing that information with 48 million users who could have had their data scraped?

KEVIN CHAN’S LAWYER: We’re happy to do interviews later, but no interviews today.

REPORTER: But you’re right here. You guys are trying to build trust with the public and you're running from reporters. How does that work? Would you accept regulations in Canada? You said you were happy to do interviews, why not just do it right now and save everyone some time?

JD: That was Facebook Canada executive Kevin Chan not answering reporters’ questions in Ottawa today.

[Music: Ambient Guitar Plucks]

Lego Titanic

Guest: Brynjar Karl Birgisson & Bjarney Ludviksdottir

JD: Five years ago Brynjar Karl Birgisson built the world's largest Lego replica of the Titanic. No small feat considering he was only 10. Since then the Icelander has been accompanying that model to different countries where it has been exhibited. Right now he is in the United States. A few years ago the idea of speaking to a stranger, let alone a journalist in a foreign language, would have been unthinkable to Brynjar. He was born with autism and he used to find it challenging to speak at all. But since building this model he has found communication much, much easier — as you'll hear. We reached Brynjar Karl Birgisson and his mother Bjarney Ludviksdottir in Tennessee, where the replica is currently being exhibited.

SB: Brynjar, what made you want to create this replica of the Titanic?

BRYNJAR KARL BIRGISSON: Well, when I was around 6 or 7 years old I went to Legoland and when I came in I saw all of these huge like real scale models. And when I walked out I thought to myself, I want to make one real life scale model myself but I wasn't sure what to build. So I took some time to think. After four years I was searching around the internet about steam trains because at that time it was a big train fan. And when I was searching through the Internet the recommendation list said the biggest ever steam ship and I was very curious about it. And then the Titanic came, it was amazing. I was fascinated by it. So after that I chose to build the Titanic.

SB: And what kind of research did you have to do to know about these measurements and to plot out your building?

BKB: Well, my grandfather is an engineer so he told me how long it would have to be and he estimated the amount of bricks needed. He was a big help for me.

SB: How long did it take you?

BKB: Eleven months and 700 hours to build the whole ship.

SB: Wow, that's a long time. Did you have any difficulty obtaining the required amount of Lego bricks?

BKB: My mom and myself did a video talking about what I wanted to do and that message throughout YouTube got attention and the Denmark company reached me and they gave us a discount.

SB: That was handy.

BKB: Yeah, it was really handy.

SB: Can I bring your mother into this now?

BL: Hello there.

SB: Hello. Bjarney, I want to bring you into this conversation. Tell me what your reaction was when your 10-year-old son came to you and said, I want to make a Lego replica of the Titanic?

BL: I thought it was just another game. But when he started to come again and again and again and again, I thought to myself I have to listen to him, I have to give him space to explain to me what he's thinking about. Then he told me, really, what he was thinking about. It was not just a small project, but he wanted to build the Titanic out of Lego. Giving that a Lego man would be the same size as an average person. And we decided to go ahead with everything and follow his dreams and support him all the way.

SB: Did you think he could pull it off? Did you think he could do it?

BL: Well, to tell you the truth I didn't know. I just decided to not think about it too much. At that point he was struggling in school. He was not communicating. He was in a fog. It was not a good time for him so I thought maybe this project would help him and it really did. I say it saved his life. I mean, it saved his personality. He came out of the fog and was able to communicate with people. I mean, he had to. People who were coming to him and asking him what are you doing, why are you doing this. And slowly he started to speak more, look in people's eyes, listen and answer. We never, never knew that his story would gain such attention. But what happened in the end is truly, for us, a miracle. I mean, there's a boy isolated in his autistic world. And then all of a sudden he's standing on stage sharing his message and encouraging other kids to follow his dreams — unimaginable.

SB: Can I talk to Brynjar again?

BL: Yes, here he is.

BKB: Hello.

SB: Hello Brynjar. Your mother describes this process that you went through building this ship. How did your autism help you with this project do you think?

BKB: Well, my autism helped me a lot because some autistic people have very big obsessions. They want to finish something, so that kept me going. So it was a big help for me to finish the project.

SB: As well as providing that drive, can autism also make things more difficult?

BKB: Well autism is a little bit hard. For instance social interactions that's difficult. Many autistic people have difficulties to like look eye to eye. But we are still human beings. That's the most important part.

SB: You're a pretty impressive human being with a lot of drive. Do you understand how enormous your achievement is?

BKB: Well, first I did not understand I was going like this far with this but it was only the beginning and when I was coming through, like the first mall in Iceland and showing the ship it was amazing. I was not expecting this. I just thought it was just a simple big project but I just wanted to finish something and I did notice that it would get this much attention.

SB: Your mother describes a boy who started out on this project as living in a bit of a fog and not really communicating with people. How have you changed?

BKB: It was just like a maze. I always thought about like the fog was always controlling me. But when you talk more and more to people you will get over the fog and you will become a better citizen. My advice to give everybody is just keep talking to someone and you will become a better citizen.

SB: That's pretty good advice. Can you give me your mom again for a minute? How proud are you of this boy?

BL: There is no scale to measure how happy and proud we are. It's really emotional.

SB: It's quite something. Thank you so much for telling us about it.

BL: My pleasure.

SB: Let me just say goodbye to Brynjar please.

BL: Yes.

BKB: She is crying.

SB: What's it like to see your mom get so emotional about what you've done?

BKB: Well, it's really emotional for me. I'm very happy that she is glad about this project and also for my grandfather as well.

SB: Brynjar, what's next for you, any more building projects?

BKB: Well, no sadly my Lego days are over. But the ship days are not over. I'm planning to become a captain someday. And if that doesn't work out my thought is to become a professional soccer player.

SB: We don't have any doubt that you'll be able to do whatever you put your mind to. Thank you so much for telling us your story.

BKB: Thank you very much.

SB: Good luck with whatever you do, whatever you choose.

BKB: Thank you.

SB: Bye-bye.

BKB: Bye.

JD: That was Brynjar Karl Birgisson and his mother Bjarney Ludviksdottir speaking about his record breaking Lego Titanic. We reached them in Tennessee, where the replica is currently being exhibited. And should you like to see photograph of Brynjar and his model, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Prince Investigation

Guest: Angèle Regnier

JD: Minnesota authorities have investigated how Prince got the Fentanyl that ended his life for two years. And today Carver County Prosecutor Mark Metz announced that despite all those efforts they still don't know. And so criminal charges will not be laid in the singer's death. Prince was 57 years old when he was found unresponsive at his Paisley Park estate on April 21st of 2016. Here is part of what Mr. Metz said about what they did learn in the investigation.

SOUNDCLIP

JD: Prince did not die from a Vicodin or Percocet overdose. The toxicology report is clear that Prince died from an overdose of Fentanyl. The evidence suggests that Prince took counterfeit Vicodin containing Fentanyl on or about April 21, 2016. Unfortunately the subject counterfeit Vicodin pills are an exact imitation of real Vicodin and pills but the counterfeit pills contain the potentially deadly opioid Fentanyl. Representative samples taken from Paisley Park of the counterfeit Vicodin pills tested positive Fentanyl. Nothing in the evidence suggests that Prince knowingly ingested Fentanyl. In addition, there is no evidence that any person associated with Prince knew Prince possessed any counterfeit pills containing fentanyl. In all likelihood, Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him. Others around Prince also likely did not know that the pills were counterfeit containing Fentanyl. There is no evidence that the pill or pills that actually killed Prince were prescribed by a doctor. There is also no evidence to suggest any other sinister motive, intent or conspiracy to murder Prince. The evidence suggests that Prince had long suffered significant pain, became addicted to pain medications but took efforts to protect his privacy. In fact ,Prince did not even own a cell phone and so that was one important piece of evidence that law enforcement was not able to examine.

JD: Carver County Prosecutor Mark Metz announcing that no criminal charges will be laid in relation to Prince's death. Also today, the Prince estate released the original recording of one of his best known songs, Nothing Compares To You.

Part 2: Supreme Court Beer Border Ruling, Snail Ballet

Supreme Court Beer Border Ruling

Guest: Gerard Comeau

JD: Gerard Comeau failed in his bid to change the way we buy beer and wine in this country. The New Brunswick man had been fined for trying to haul more than a dozen cases of beer across the provincial border from Quebec. Mr. Comeau didn't think that was right and so he found himself a lawyer. Well today, six years and three levels of court later, the Supreme Court ruled that no, Canadians do not have the right to shop for beer or wine or whatever else they'd like, across provincial borders. We reached Gerard Comeau in Campbellton, New Brunswick.

SB: Mr. Comeau, how are you feeling after today's decision from Ottawa?

GERARD COMEAU: More or less disappointed because I mean, when you're talking about the Constitution it's quite clear that you can go and buy your merchandise anywhere in this country in any quantity and take it home, as long as it's Canadian produce or a Canadian product and duty’s been paid on it.

SB: Well every justice on the Supreme Court saw it a different way.

GC: Well, maybe they saw it a different way, but did they look at the individual point of your trade point of view?

SB: What do you think?

GC: I think they looked at it in trade point of view. Another thing too, the provinces don’t want to lower their revenue. And according to what I can understand from the Constitution, if you read Articles 121 that’s what it says.

SB: You've been at this fight for years. What made you want to take this on?

GC: Well, I don’t think I’m taking it on. I just went to buy beer in Quebec one year and then got arrested and stopped and they seized my beer and I went to court and in between time we found this clause in the Constitution and I said to myself I'm a Canadian citizen, I don’t see why I can’t go buy merchandise at a cheaper price in another province if it is cheaper.

SB: So this was all about the price for you?

GC: Yes. I mean, if you're going to pay an over price for a product a here to pay debts for the province. I’m not the one responsible for the provinces debt. I pay my share when I work in income tax and all that — more than my share.

SB: What kind of support for your arguments, your position, do you think you have across the country?

GC: Well, everybody that had a chance to talk about it seems to be in agreement with me that we should be able to go buy merchandise wherever we want. We can go buy anything else, clothes, shoes cars, groceries — you can go buy whatever you want and take it home. Why is there a problem with beer?

SB: I can see it if it's a controlled substance. But beer isn’t a controlled substance as far as I know.

SB: You sound like you're just shrugging this off and oh, well it's just the way it's got to be.

GC: It’s going to be the way it’s going to be. I’m not going to fight this for years. I just decided to find out what is the law and what am I allowed to do. Now I know.

SB: Every Supreme Court justice was involved in writing this decision. They were unanimous and they all took part in writing the decision. What do you make of that?

GC: Pretty hard to say because I don't really know how the Supreme Court operates, but there’s judges from all different provinces and all different provinces are looking at protecting revenue, so I supposed they didn’t come to it independent. But what pushed them to do that? I don’t know. There might be something behind it, but we’ll never find out.

SB: Would you still make a trip to Quebec to get cheaper beer?

GC: No, not really. If it’s against the law, it’s against the law. If I happen to come this way I’ll buy some.

SB: But your beer smuggling days are over, are they?

GC: I wasn’t smuggling. I was going there bringing beer for my friends. If they wanted a case of beer I would bring them one for them and it wasn't smuggling. I wasn't bootlegging or anything. I happened to go and my brother wanted a case of beer, or someone in the family, their friend — bring me a case of beer, I brought them a case of beer. Bring me two cases, I brought them two cases. Everybody wants to buy stuff as cheap as possible. That’s what the government doesn't seem to understand. Bring the price down they're going to sell more. You keep putting the price up and you're going to just push this problem further and further.

SB: If you could say one thing to the Supreme Court justices, what would you tell them?

GC: I’d tell them so much for personal liberty in this country. When the provinces decide to tax whatever they want now they are free to do it. They can make a virtual slave out of you if they really want to do it.

SB: A virtual slave? Personal liberty? You really think that's what this is all about?

GC: No, but what they said is the provinces have got the right to limit whatever comes into the province so they can just limit anything. When is it going to be the day that they're going to say oh we're going to put a stop to that.

SB: Well, Mr. Comeau, thank you very much for your time.

GC: You're welcome.

SB: Bye-bye.

GC: Bye-bye.

SB: Gerard Comeau was in Campbelton, New Brunswick.

[Music: Ambient Bass]

Starbucks Protests

JD: You have likely heard from the protesters boycotting Starbucks, from the city's police, from the Starbucks management. But today for the first time the two men at the centre of the Starbucks controversy spoke up he men Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson appeared on ABC's Good Morning America this morning. They're the two Black men who were arrested at a Starbucks in Philadelphia last week. You may have seen the video. In today's interview, the two men said that they went to a Starbucks for a business meeting. Mr. Nelson asked to use the washroom. He was told it was only for paying customers. He sat at a table with his friend. And that is when an employee approached them, asked if they needed anything, maybe some drinks. They said no. After that the police showed up arrested them and took them away. Reportedly, the men arrived at the store around 4:35. The 911 call was made at 4:37. Here is part of host Robin Roberts’ conversation with Mr. Nelson and Mr. Robinson this morning. The other voice you're going to hear in the middle is their lawyer Stewart Cohen.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBIN ROBERTS: When you were arrested did they tell you what you were being arrested for?

RASHON NELSON: No, not at the time. We weren’t read any rights, nothing. Just double locked, handcuffs behind our back, escorted out and put into a squad car.

RR: What do you say to some people who say rules are rules, that Starbucks has a policy, you violated that policy. The police asked you repeatedly to leave and you didn't. How do you respond to people who say that?

RN: What I say is I understand that rules are rules. But what’s right is and what’s wrong is wrong. And that’s in any situation, whether it is race involved or anything.

STEWART COHEN: Robin, I'm sorry but what is that rule? Starbucks holds itself open as a place for people to meet and to have public conversations. Those are words from their website.

RR: What do you want to see happen here, Donte?

DONTE ROBINSON: I want to make sure that this situation doesn't happen again. So what I want is for a young man or young men to not be traumatized by this instead motivated, inspired.

RR: And what do you want, Rashon?

RN: So, you know, take this opportunity as a stepping stone to really stand up and show your greatness and that you are not judged by the colour of your skin as our ancestors were or anyone else. You know, this is something that has been going on for years and everyone's blind to it. But they know what’s going on, if you get what I mean. And you know, just really taking those actions and putting them into place and help people understand that it's not just Black people thing. This is the people thing.

JD: That was Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson and their lawyer Stewart Cohen speaking about Mr. Nelson and Mr. Robinson's arrest at Starbucks on Good Morning America today. Following their arrest Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross was criticized for his comments. This afternoon Commissioner Ross issued an apology to the two men. Here's part of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

RICHARD ROSS: I'm here to discuss the unfortunate incident that has been in the news about this great city. An incident that I fully acknowledge that I played a significant role in making worse. For starters, I should have said the officers acted within the scope of the law and not that they didn't do anything wrong. Words are very important. While it is no excuse, my lack of awareness of the Starbucks business model played a role in my message. While this is apparently a well-known fact with Starbucks customers, not everyone is aware that people spend long hours in Starbucks and aren't necessarily expected to make a purchase. I've had multiple discussions over the last few days and it is a, I shouldn’t say a well-known fact, but a widespread belief that everyone knows that about Starbucks. I'm here to tell you that I did not and it is also reasonable to believe that the officers didn't know it either. As I've spoken to a number of people who are not Starbucks customers who are not aware, I was under the belief that people went there and they spent hours and hours, but that the expectation was that they bought something first. I was aware of that and so that is on me.

JD: That was Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross speaking today. He also said there was a new policy to guide officers in similar situations. The CEO of Starbucks has described what happened as quote “reprehensible.” The company has said it plans to close thousands of company-owned stores next month for racial bias education. The Starbucks employee who called the police is no longer with the store.

[Music: Upright Bass]

Snail Ballet

Guest: Elizabeth Saint-Jalmes

JD: Let's hope stage fright doesn't make the performers feel sluggish. This weekend a performance art piece will premiere in London. The creators call it a ballet. The dancers are 176 snails. The piece lasts, an unsurprising perhaps, six hours, accompanied by a musical soundtrack, which will be partly controlled by the motion of the snails themselves. Elizabeth Saint-Jalmes and said Cyril Leclerc have brought the show, which is entitled Slow Pixel from their home in Paris to the U.K. and we reached Ms. Saint-Jalmes in London.

SB: Madame Saint-Jalmes, what exactly does snail ballet look like?

ELIZABETH SAINT-JALMES: It is a huge installation taking place in a room. 176 nations are hanging around. Each one is carrying a light on the shell. So it looks like the sky at night actually.

SB: So the snails actually have little LED lights attached to their shells?

ESJ: Yes, exactly.

SB: And they're crawling around on the floors and on the walls. Can you describe the scene?

ESJ: At first, this nails are disposed in geometrical shapes nearby speakers which are transformable and made of cardboard, which can be moved in the space. Then the snails go their own ways and so they move in an anarchist way. And then we handle them, we hold them, we move them we put them on the walls and in baskets.

SB: And what is the audience doing through all this?

ESJ: The audience first really arrives in the scene in the first suggestion is to get very close to the snail and to have a very close look.

SB: How do you get close to a snail? You've got to get down onto the ground?

ESJ: Yes, yes. The audience is most of the time lying down on the floor, on their knees and across the space. They take like a child position actually, like the children.

SB: And I understand there's music playing as well. What's happening with the music?

ESJ: The lights which are on the snails are moving actually, changing the music, which is created by DIY electronic devices and they are linked to light sensors which reacts to the light the snails.

SB: But snails don't move very quickly, so how does that affect the music?

ESJ: Actually the music is drone, minimal drone. So it changes slowly. And for example when a snail moves around you can clearly hear the difference in the music because it is pre-programmed to react when the light is strong or low on it.

SB: This isn't the first art installation that you've done involving snails. Tell me what else you've done involving snails in the shop?

ESJ: We have several installations. First, Cyril is the author of a piece which involves a dancer and snails. And the second is called Les Crieurs, The Criers, and it is involving salt, snails and ink and light and glass. And otherwise I have work involving snails eating papers and I actually make sculptures out of the excrement of the snails who have been eating paper.

SB: Why are you so interested in snails?

ESJ: Because as artists living in Paris we are very much disconnected from nature. And at first it was a chance — an accident we had them at home and it really reconnected us to them to the time and to observing nature.

SB: What do you mean you had you had them at home?

ESJ: Yeah because Cyril was making that piece, the dance piece we were living with them for maybe two months and we were having them take showers and make babies, so we had eggs in the plants. It was like observing nature at home, you know, and they connect to a different relation to time.

SB: What kind of snails do you use?

ESJ: We use gros-gris, fat grays, which are very big and round.

SB: Where do you get your snails?

ESJ: We actually, we have a partnership with a farm in France, in the south of France. So he gives them to us. And then after they’ve played one or two performances we put them back in the nature, we free them. It's contract we have with them, it's a deal. The snails work for us for a few months and we free them after that instead of them being eaten, like, you know, by French people.

SB: Right. Because the French love their snails.

ESJ: Yes, they love eating them normally.

SB: But I gather you and Cyril are, in fact vegetarians, so you wouldn't eat the snails?

ESJ: It is absolutely right. We don't eat snails, nor any other animal.

SB: What do you hope the audience takes away from the snail ballet?

ESJ: We really hope that people will understand that as human beings we have a lot to learn from nature and most of all from which we believe can be tiny and maybe it’s a lesson of humility that we would most like people to go back home with. And also relationship to slowing down to the time, the rhythm and the relation to what we have to do, how we live, how we go through life.

SB: Madame Saint-Jalmes merci.

ESJ: De rien, merci beaucoup.

SB: Bye-bye.

ESJ: Bye-bye.

JD: Elizabeth Saint-Jalmes is the co-creator of a piece of snail ballet called Slow Pixel. Along with her partner Cyril Leclerc. It has its U.K. premiere this weekend as part of Cryptic's Sonica Festival, which describes itself as a festival of visual art for the sonically minded. We reached Ms. Saint-Jalmes in London. You can find some photographs and video of the snail ballet on our website.

[Music: Ambient Synth Bells]

Los Tigres Folsom Prison Perfromance

JD: On the morning of January 13th of 1968 Johnny Cash played the first of two shows at the high-security Folsom Prison in California. And he kicked things off with his 1955 hit Folsom Prison Blues. The show, quite frankly, wasn't quite as raucous as it sounds on the record. The inmates were on their very best behaviour so they didn't actually cheer after Mr. Cash sang “I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.” The producer added that later. The resulting album though At Folsom Prison was a hit with the inmates and it was a hit for Johnny Cash. But it wasn't until this year that an act as big as Johnny Cash played Folsom again. But this week the legendary norteño band Los Tigres del Nortre performed in front of about 800 people at Folsom. It didn't just mark 50 years since Johnny Cash's performance there. It also marked 50 years since the Mexican group's first concert in the U.S., which was also incidentally at a California prison. Los Tigres have sold millions and millions of albums. To their fans they are more than musicians. As an expert on corridos, which are the ballads Los Tigres frequently perform, as an expert told The New York Times quote “They are social leaders as well, who steer the course of the conversation among Mexican Americans and the Latino community.”

Poop Train Update

JD: Finally the good people of Parrish, Alabama can breathe easy. For a while there, on a bad day as parish Mayor Heather Hall told us earlier this month, it smelled like rotting animals, which wasn't great for tourism or perhaps more seriously, it wasn't great for residents. The source of the stench was a so-called Poop Train which sat in Mayor Hall's community for two months. The car was full of sewage sludge originally from New York and New Jersey. They were destined for a landfill in Alabama. But before I went there the plan was to store it in another town. That town blocked that plan. And so the poop ended up stuck and Parrish. Now for a refreshing update. Yesterday, Ms. Hall took to Facebook to announce some wonderful news. She described it as a quote “end to our nightmare.” The poop filled trains have been emptied and the remaining empty containers at the railyard will be gone soon. The mayor went on to write in her post quote “I know the situation took longer than anyone, especially myself, had hoped it would take to come to an end” and she concluded, “We are looking forward to moving on.” So it is the final act of a difficult time for Parrish residents and now the curtain falls on a kitchen stink drama. For more on this story, or to hear our original interview with Mayor Hall. Visit our website.

Hog Day

JD: We put so much trust in groundhogs to predict our weather for us. I, for one, have been holding Nova Scotia’s Shubenacadie Sam to his unspoken promise, because in February Sam predicted an early spring. I trusted Sam, Sam destroyed that trust. You don't need to live in a groundhog hole to realize just how un-spring like April has been across this entire country. And so I have decided to put my faith in a different prognosticator. I now believe in the power of pigs. I will let Jeff Woodward explain. He was on CBC Calgary's Eyeopener with host David Gray this morning.

SOUNDCLIP

JEFF WOODWARD: It was pretty obvious, you use a pig spleen. That’s the best way of doing it.

DAVIG GRAY: Hang on a minute. You said that the spleen of a pig. That's what we're talking about here?

JW: Yep.

DG: Just how did this come about?

JW: My ancestors from Europe. And in the fall, I guess, when they would be preparing for the winter they would slaughter a pig. And the idea was they'd look at the pig spleen and somehow the information about the upcoming winter — the pig was preparing for the winter — and that information was stored in the spleen.

DG: Can you give me the methodology? What do you actually do?

JW: So when you look at the spleen it’s got — the thickness if there’s any sort of odd things on the spleen and the main thing is there’s this a big ridge of fat that runs down the centre of the spleen. And if you look at that the way that it's, you know, how big it is and there's different sort of deposits along it and you could actually create a graph. So you divide the spleen up into six months or six parts and the prediction goes from January to June. So each part of the spleen represents a one month. So you pick out, you know, the temperature from the different thicknesses, the precipitation from the fat and you look at a bunch of different spleens to get what environment Canada may call an ensemble forecast.

[LAUGHTER]

DG: OK. OK. I’m following all of this. How successful have you been at predicting the weather?

JW: I think in the 10 or 11 years that I've been doing it, they are always better than the long range forecasts from the scientific organizations. And this year it's been, you know, it is a very good. Long spring, snowfall events all of that generally predicted with the spleens.

DG: I feel at this point of our conversation I have a responsibility to share with our listeners the fact that you are yourself a man of science, are you not?

JW: I am an engineer. So there is a bit of conflict, yes, in my world.

[LAUGHTER]

DG: Not only are you an engineer, but you work for Environment Canada, am I right?

[LAUGHTER]

JW: I do, but not for the weather side. But let's not dwell on that.

[LAUGHTER]

DG: Well, if this was the case. Have you ever tried convincing your colleagues over on the other side of the aisle that it's time to get rid of the Doppler and bring in more pig spleens?

JW: Absolutely, there is a lot of good-natured banter that does go on.

JD: That was Jeff Woodward on CBC Calgary's Eyeopener telling host David Gray about how he uses pig spleens for weather prognostication.

[Music: Upbeat Ballroom]

Part 3: Iran: Professor's Son, Right Whale Rescue

Iran: Professor's Son

Guest: Ramin Seyed-Emami

JD: It was traumatic enough to lose their father but now Ramin said Mehran Seyed-Emami are fighting for justice on behalf of their mother. The Canadian-Iranians are the sons of Kavous Seyed-Emami, a professor and environmentalist who died in Evin Prison in Tehran earlier this year under suspicious circumstances. Iranian officials said it was suicide but his family and friends vehemently dispute that. Well now the professor's widow, Maryam Mombeini is stuck in Tehran. Her Canadian passport confiscated. And her sons say that she too is being investigated for espionage. The same allegations her husband faced. Ramin Seyed-Emami is one of her sons. We reached him in Vancouver.

SB: Mr. Seyed-Emami, Iranian authorities are accusing your mother of espionage. How she coping with that?

RAMIN SEYED EMAMI: It's been very difficult, Susan. I talk to her on a daily basis but you can only imagine the pain and suffering that she's going through but she's trying to be stronger as she can. We have to stick together during this ordeal and figure out how to get our mom back home. And to keep herself busy she's actually taken three stray dogs, taking them to the vet, giving them shots. And I mean, this is the kind of picture-perfect family that we were. Both my parents were people who all they did was love and give service and to come to such a tragic end for our father is just something that we never would have imagined in a million years.

SB: What exactly is your mother being accused of?

RSE: This is the problem, like we still don't even know what our father's main charges were. They have yet to show us a shred of evidence of anything. And the fact that after my father's suspicious death in Evin Prison they've tried to cover their tracks with constant lies and threats and harassment, only adds suspicion to the whole case that it is more evident that there wasn't anything to build on from the beginning.

SB: But they thought your father was a spy?

RSE: Basically, you know, it was just this revolutionary guard, specifically their intelligence unit, they are basically, you know, in their own mind they have uncovered like this large web of espionage, which is absolutely ludicrous and insane. To even here the accusations against our father, against an organisation was doing something to save Iran's wildlife and environment. Accusations like their camera traps were being used to send sensitive information to the west, which is so stupid because those camera traps are such cheap pieces of equipment that they're made to be thrown away because they end up getting stolen broken in the wilderness. And with satellite technology right now they can monitor anything they want in the world so cameras that have a range of 15 to 20 metres.

SB: So your father was an environmentalist who was using these cameras to track endangered animals. But according to the people who arrested him and imprisoned him, they've accused him of using these cameras to spy.

RSE: I mean, yes, that’s just, you know, one of the accusations. Again, this is very absurd, that was volunteer work. He you just did it because he loved saving the environment.

SB: And now your mother is being asked to go to Evin Prison for questioning, the same place where your father died. What do you think would happen if she went there?

RSE: Well first off we don't want her to go to her because we know for sure that she will be interrogated again. And after everything she's gone through it’s even more like that they may take her in and imprison her. Now we've been advised that no matter what wherever they tell you to come alone do not go there at all. We've been advised by the lawyers over there and overseas that, you know, if they're going to come and take you away they have to come and take you away forcefully. You have to make it a big scene because that is what they do. They asked the father to come in voluntarily and he went. Not only did they impound their car but they put a bag around his head and took him to an undisclosed location the last anyone ever saw of him.

SB: You've told your mother to stay in the house and not to go to the prison. But how worried are you that they will come and take her away?

RSE: We're very worried because, you know, the fact that we've opened a national security case against my mother, you know,a poor loving woman who just wants to be in peace and grieve. Someone who loves doing yoga, swimming and gardening. Someone who just really enjoyed simple pleasures of life, you know, to have such accusations now thrown against her and saying that she's complicit in something that never existed and is completely fabricated, is very frightening because there's no ends or limits to the paranoid delusions of these people. They've created a truth in their minds that are speaking with and they keep doubling down on. It's pretty evident with the current scene in Iran, politically and internationally, that there's no way that they will back down and admit to a mistake. There's no way that's going to happen.

SB: Why do you think the Iranian authorities have targeted your mother and father and believe that they are spies or a threat to Iran?

RSE: The revolutionary guards always have an internal struggle going on with the more moderate elements within the government. And basically they go out of their way to make sure to remind people and make examples out of people that ‘hey, we’re the people who run the show, we’re are the people who run the country. You do not mess with us.’ So NGOs, for example, or, you know, organisations that were using sort of international funds to help domestic issues, it was one of the few places that they didn’t have their tentacles in. They control almost every industry within the country. So it seems like a very easy target for them because most of them weren't peace loving hippies, you know, the people who run these types of NGOs, you know, shelters for homeless people or for wildlife or water conservation. And obviously most of the people are doing this out of a passion, you know, so it was an easy target for them to just sort of put their fingers on and create this whole scenario.

SB: What can you do from Canada to try to help your mother to try to bring her here?

RSE: My brother and I have started this campaign bring Maryam Home, #BRINGMARYAMHOME, and I'm a musician, music is the only thing that I know how to do in my life, so I'm putting on a couple of concerts to raise some funds for our family too, because when they raided our home they took everything away from us, including the deeds to our homes and everything of value that we had. Overnight not only did our father get killed but our entire existence was taken away as well. We've we've been in touch with the Canadian government. They have been you know in communication with us have and they have been supportive but we really need them to take a much stronger stance. There is a Canadian citizen being barred from leaving the country and they should be using everything at their disposal through their own diplomatic channels or through their allies or through any possible way to reassure our mom Maryam, a Canadian citizen, that she will be protected and her safety will be guaranteed. I just wish that there was more sense of urgency in terms of this case, which I unfortunately don't know how to feel about right now. The longer this thing keeps dragging the harder it becomes.

SB: Well Mr. Seyed-Emami, good luck with your push to get your mom to Canada. And thank you for talking to us.

RSE: Thank you so much. Bye.

JD: Ramin Seyed-Emami is the son of Canadian-Iranian couple Maryam Mombeini and Kavous Seyed-Ememi Amami. Professor Seyed-Ememi died in Evin Prison earlier this year. We reached Ramin Seyed-Emami in Vancouver.

[Music: Ambient Bass Tones]

Right Whale Rescue

Guest: Scott Landry

JD: Since she was first spotted in the late 1970s, a right whale named Kleenex has been on the radar of conservationists and scientists because Kleenex is a female and she is one of only about 100 left in the Atlantic Ocean who have given birth. Kleenex however is not having any calves these days. For several years now thick ropes have been tangled around her mouth and her blowhole. So when Kleenex was spotted recently off Cape Cod, Scott Landry and his team sprang into action. Mr. Landry is the director of the Marine Animal Entanglement Response Program. We reached him in Provincetown, Massachusetts.

SB: Mr. Landry, how did you and your team find Kleenex?

SCOTT LANDRY: She was found by a federal aerial survey that was conducting surveys looking for right whales. We were already on the water also doing research on whales. And so we were able to head to their location relatively quickly.

SB: And what did you find when you got close to Kleenex? Can you describe for us the scene with the ropes around her?

SL: Yeah, Kleenex is a very large North Atlantic right whale. She's probably around 50 feet long weighing around 50 tons. Her entanglement consists of two passes of very thick rope around her upper jaw. So when she comes up to the surface to breathe and breaks the surface of the water to breathe, her upper jaw stretches in front of her blowholes and you can see two large pieces of rope wrapped around her upper jaw and a bundle, a jumble of lines right over her blowholes.

SB: Is that affecting her ability to eat and to breathe?

SL: It does affect her ability to eat and breathe, but not to the point where it's taken her life. She's been carrying this rope at minimum four years now,

SB: Four years?

SL: Yes, four years.

SB: What did your team do when you found her?

SL: Well, we set to work very quickly. The aerial survey team was usually able to identify her. And so this is an animal that we have been discussing for a while and so had a good plan of attack. Unfortunately the number of options that we have to disentangle her extremely limited. Normally we would get hold of a whale’s entanglements and add buoys and sea anchors to slow the whale down and keep it at the surface, but because she's got no line trailing away from her mouth there's nothing for us to attach to. So, quite frankly, we only had one option and that was a technique that we developed a few years ago for exactly this kind of entanglement. Namely that's a cutting arrow fired from a crossbow.

SB: You're using a crossbow to shoot an arrow at the whale. What's the risk to the whale that she could be injured?

SL: Oh, it's a relatively little risk. We've put this technique through a lot of testing over the years and it was confirmed by our permits office to be safe to use on these animals. Certainly not an easy technique to pull off, but it's not likely to do any harm to the whale. Certainly a lot less harm than is currently being done by her entanglement.

SB: How difficult is it to hit the ropes exactly with a crossbow?

SL: It's difficult. We use crossbows routinely in our work. Normally it's to collect a small sample of skin and blubber for research. So we're quite comfortable using these crossbows at sea on our boat. And so it's a slight modification to the arrows and also the attitude about how we approach the animal to really get a good position and a good shot.

SB: So you fired the shot and you scored a direct hit?

SL: Yeah, the arrow hit both lengths of line and the blades went into that line about half way, so this was as good as we could have hoped for for that day.

SB: What's the plan now, are you hoping that the ropes are weak enough that they'll break?

SL: That's exactly what we're hoping. You know, weakening the rope was, as I said, the goal of this. Now we can't predict exactly how long this rope would take to break and deteriorate. And unfortunately right now the whale is sort of in a race with that rope. Her condition is deteriorating quite, quite rapidly. She's extremely thin, her skin looks in very poor condition, She's covered in whale lice. So this is an animal that has been struggling for a long time and still has a struggle to go. We just don't know which is going to come first the rope or her.

SB: Why would the ropes — I understand how they're weakening her health. Why would they prevent a pregnancy?

SL: In this case, when you when you see Kleenex in life you realize OK this is certainly a female that's not even in condition to be pregnant. It takes a huge effort for female whales to get their body into conditions for pregnancy. So even if that rope falls off tomorrow, we essentially will hold our breath on her for about a year, hopefully allowing her to survive another year and then she'll be back on her feet. And it would probably take another two years before she's in condition for calving.

SB: If the ropes don't weaken and break and she isn't freed and she dies, what will have been lost?

SB: Well, one of the most productive females in our population. Kleenex has been in the catalog of right whales since 1977 and she's given birth to a number of calves over the years. I think it's seven to nine individual calves that we know of, which is actually very high for right whales. Right whales don't produce a lot of calves. And unfortunately the number of females in our population is smaller than the male population. And of those females, not all of them are reproductive females. There's quite a few females that have never been recorded with a calf. And so loss of females is, you know, extremely difficult on a small population. But a loss of females who are known to be productive is even worse. So this could be a significant loss. Honestly if she is found dead somewhere it would be a terrible loss, not only to her population, but to my team. But I have to be honest and say that beyond the work that we did for her, there is no further supportive care palliative care that we can give her.

SB: Well, we can hope. Thank you for telling us Kleenex’s story.

SL: Thank you so much.

SB: Bye-bye.

JD: We reached Scott Landry in Provincetown, Massachusetts where he is the director of the Marine Animal Entanglement Response Program.

[Music: Ambient Bass]

Fist Pumping Day

Guest: Andrew Stobo Sniderman

JD: Here at As It Happens we embrace unusual stories with open arms. Five days a week, when we put the show inside your radio, you're pretty much guaranteed to hear about something odd. So when we found out that today is National High Five Day we knew we had to do. Paw through the archives to look for the last story we did about the skin slapping salutation. Weirdly we couldn't find any interviews about high fives, but we won't leave you hanging. We found the next best thing. In 2012, Carol spoke to Ray Slater, who had just broken a world record for the longest time spent fist pumping. He clocked in at 17 hours and 15 minutes. Here's part of that conversation from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL OFF: Ray, what's your secret for a prolonged fist pumping?

RAY SLATER: Oh my goodness gracious. Be confident in yourself. Have a great body and you too can become a fist pumping World Champion.

CO: Do you think that's what you've done? Have you broken the record?

RS: The record has been not only broken — I shattered it. James Peterson of Ohio literally had the record for two days. My boss Bobby Bowen says “Hey dude do you think you can break it? Let's do it.” Well, the news then spread all over America by Monday. So we went into emergency panic mode and he said “Dude I know you haven't slept because you've been doing your radio shows, but you need to do this tonight.” So not only did I break his record I went 17 hours fist pumping. I went 35 hours without sleeping.

CO: What did you have to do in order to keep pumping your fist in the air for more than 17 hours?

RS: Well, I'm a body builder by trade. Every day I do radio and after my show boom I'm in the gym, I'm doing shoulders, I'm doing lats, so being sore and moving your muscles for extended periods of time is something I'm used to but this was just whacked out and it was all in my mind and you could almost say it was in my heart too. But I knew I could do it.

CO: Now, come on, there's a few things you had to do in order to make it. You couldn't hold your fist that long. What did you do to make that happen?

RS: Right. What I did is followed suit with him. He had put in an article I superglued my hand. Great idea. We're actually going to use that idea and then go ahead and just beat your record. But I superglued my fingers all together and within five minutes of pumping my fist they were completely numb.

CO: So why did you have to glue your fingers together?

RS: Just because I figured it would be natural for your hand to want to open up after extended periods of time. So we went with it and it was the smartest decision ever. Even though my hand literally felt like a rock and not even something that was attached to my body anymore, it was the smartest decision because then all I had to do was throw my hand in the air and not necessarily concentrate on keeping it closed fist.

CO: Which hand were you doing this with your left to your right?

RS: I decided to go with my right hand. That's my strongest hand. And I knew with my left hand that eventually it was going to get worn out. Go with what hand been your strongest your entire life and just totally go with your guns. BAM! You’ve played sports with that hand. You write love letters with that hand. Now you need to fist pump for 17 hours with that hand.

JD: BAM. From our archives, Ray Slater speaking to Carol in May of 2012. We played that to mark National High Five Day, because there's no national fist pumping day — yet.

[Music: Upbeat Waltz]

Touch-free Chicken

JD: Millennials, are they just a bunch of snowflakes who can't even? The consensus among everyone but millennials seems to be yes. And today everyone over 40 would be posting gifs of Kim Kardashian rolling her eyes — if they knew how to do that, or who Kim Kardashian was. Now let's put aside the fact that snowflakes are beautiful and individual and that these days none of us can even. Let's focus on the latest story that's making everyone despair about millennials. The story of a new package of meat at the British supermarket chain Sainsbury's — touch-free chicken in a pouch. The chain's product development manager told The Sunday Times quote “Customers, particularly younger, ones are quite scared of touching raw meat. These bags allow people, especially those who are time poor, to just rip and tip the meat straight into the frying pan without touching it” unquote. Now apparently Sainsbury's is reacting to a recent survey that said 37 per cent of people born after 1980 quote “prefer not to touch raw meat due to the fear of contaminating the food” unquote. Is that stupid? It is. Do we need products with more packaging just so our lives are more convenient? No we do not. But survey aside, put up your hand if you were born before 1980 and you love touching raw chicken. That's what I thought, almost no one of any age wants to caress raw bumpy poultry corpses or rub raw processed chicken breasts. So yes, this is a silly irresponsible product, but let's not wag our chicken-handling fingers at millennials. There is no reason why they should be the only ones to get a raw deal.

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April 19, 2018 episode transcript

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