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The AIH Transcript for October 29, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: An attacker kills three people in this France, less than two weeks after a Paris schoolteacher was killed in a similar attack. An ally of President Macron tells us what the country needs now is de-escalation.

CH: Tragedy compounded. An Ontario man who lost his wife and daughter in the Ukraine international airlines crash in Iran says he's being targeted with threatening messages after he criticized Iran's response.

CO: Pumped for Trump. A retired teacher in Ohio says she is confident the U.S. president will be re-elected and fearful that if he isn't, her son could lose his job in the oil industry.

CH: Keeping it real. The restaurateur who brought authentic Chinese food to America has died. Ruth Reichl remembers her friend, Cecilia Chang.

CO: Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble. A Calgary carwash is offering a shine and a scare as a safe, soapy alternative to Halloween haunted houses this year.

CH: And they make it carefully, but not very gingerly. Canada Dry Ginger Ale reaches a settlement with a B.C. man who filed a class action lawsuit because he was furious that it contains only trace amounts of useless ginger. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that's taken care of fizzy-ness.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Nice attack

Nice attack

Guest: Bruno Bonnell

CH: Today, French President Emmanuel Macron told his citizens that France is under attack. This morning in the coastal city of Nice, an attacker entered a cathedral and killed three people. One victim was a church caretaker. One woman was reportedly beheaded. Another woman ran for help but succumbed to her injuries. It comes less than two weeks after the beheading of a school teacher in Paris, an act that shocked the country and led President Macron to promise a crackdown on Islamist extremism. Authorities in France say today's attacker in Nice is a 21 year old Tunisian migrant who arrived in France less than a month ago. He's now in custody. Bruno Bonnell sits in France's National Assembly and as a member of President Macron's En Marche Party. We reached him in Lyon.

CO: Mr. Bonnell, what is your message to people in Nice today who are shaken by today's attack and quite afraid?

BRUNO BONNELL: Well, first of all, we share the pain. Obviously, we think about the families of the people who've been attacked. Secondly, we want to tell those people that the message is not to criticize one religion against the other, but to understand that the people who've made this terrorist, they are completely twisting their own religion. And I think that's a message that hasn't been conveyed properly to a lot of Muslims when President Macron was specifically talking about Islam.

CO: Why was it so important that President Macron, in his remarks today, he said first and foremost, he wants to say that the nation supports Catholics of France and that the nation is beside our Catholic compatriots, that they have been attacked just before All Saints' Day. Why was it so important that the first thing he wanted to be in his remarks was to talk about Catholics in France? Why not all the French?

BB: Right now, the symbolic attack was within the Catholic Church. And we know how harmful it can be for the people who are believers in this religion. But unlike the Anglo-Saxon attitude, France is not a build up of communities next to each other. France's philosophy is [inaudible] which is this looming of culture and communities within one French attitude.

CO: So what is the message that President Macron is attempting to send to Muslims in France?

BB: I think it's important to distinguish Muslims from those terrorist and those fundamentalist who are devoiding their religion and kill in the name of God, when the vast majority of the Muslim in France are peaceful and they respect the republican laws and they leave peacefully next to other people with other religions.

CO: What links are you making between the attack today and what happened two weeks ago with the teacher in Paris who was also murdered?

BB: So I don't know if there is a formal link, but the style of this barbarian attack with a knife and really butchering, literally, the victims is showing that there is a link in the wheel of hurting the French republic with the symbol of school on one side, church on the other side.

CO: But do you think that this is organized then? Do you think that this is coordinated and that these attacks, as you say, they're symbolic, that they're actually coming from a single or a kind of central organization?

BB: I don't know. And I don't know that the investigation at this stage is able to answer that question. I'm just saying that the mix of barbarian attack in a symbolic place is clear between those two events.

CO: After what happened to the teacher, President Macron vowed to to crack down on the mosques, Muslim organizations who were radical. And this, as you know, created a great deal of upsets in the Islamic world, in the Muslim communities around the world. Do you think that the message has to be in some way recognizing how heightened the tension is not just in France, but in many other places?

BB: You know, again, I want to clearly pass the message that President Macron never intended to insult or disrespect the Muslim religion. I believe that quite the opposite -- our philosophy in France is to accept any believers and nonbelievers by the way.

CO: Do you think that that's really clear to French Muslims? We spoke with a French Muslim man after the killing of the teacher in Paris, he told us that he was in mourning because of that death, but he felt alienated. He said he felt he was being forced to choose between his loyalty to France and his loyalty to Islam. He was so afraid to know what would happen because of reaction to the attack.

BB: Well, back to the point of how the French republic is built. There's a concept of life to separate the private life from the public space is at the heart authority for any French citizen, Muslim, Christian or a Buddhist, whatever, the distinction should be and must be extremely clear. There is no conflict as long as you are in the public space, you are a French person, a republican, and you play the rules of the French Republic.

CO: I don't need to tell you that there were other attacks or other threats in France today. There was also an attack in Jeddah at the French consulate. But in addition to that, there has been reaction in, as we mentioned, in the Islamic community from Turkey to Somalia, Pakistan, all kinds of anger in so many places and great deal of fear in France. What can your government do to de-escalate, to bring the temperature down? Because everything seems so fraught, doesn't it?

BB: Well, you know, there are some people around the globe that have misunderstood or misread what President Macron meant when he was talking about Islam and therefore France became like almost overnight an enemy of Islam, which is totally wrong. We have close to four million French citizens while practicing this religion here in France -- and again, more than the vast majority is totally peaceful and in sync with both their religion and the French republic values. So what we can do is to stop escaping the violence, both in terms of words and in terms of actions, and probably keep repeating the message that only the terrorists who are attacking France are the enemy. All the other people are our friends and welcome, whether they are Muslims or any other religion, as long as they are accepting to play the French republic values and rules.

CO: And do you think that message is getting across in France?

BB: Well, slowly but surely we see that a lot of high responsible of the Muslim organization in France have repeated this message of support to the French republic when it's under attack and the fight and being firm against the terrorists. That is probably the solution to this crisis.

CO: Mr. Bonnell, I know you have much to do and I'm sorry what has happened in your country today, but I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

BB: Thank you so much.

CH: Bruno Bonnell sits in the French National Assembly and as a member of President Emmanuel Macron's En Marche Party. We reached him in Lyon. For more on this story, tune into The Current tomorrow morning after 8:30 a.m. news.

[Music]

U.S. election: Republican

Guest: Robin

NOTE: *An earlier version of this transcript included the guest's last name and location. We have removed this information to protect her identity.*

CH: Donald Trump is hoping 2020 will be as good to him as 2016 was. Four years ago, the U.S. president shocked some people with his upset victory, but not his diehard supporters. Here's what Robin said to Carol the day after his win.

CO: Robin, I understand your voice is a bit hoarse today. Can you describe what it was like last night watching those results come in?

ROBIN: Well, I was so excited because I've been campaigning for over a year and it finally came true. It felt surreal.

CO: The moment when you realize that Donald Trump would be the next president of the United States, what was your feeling?

ROBIN: I had a feeling of relief and elated, happy. I felt like my country was being taken back.

CH: That was Robin speaking with Carol in 2016. She's a retired teacher. And we reached her today in Ohio.

CO: Robin, you just heard yourself four years ago. Has the bloom came off the rose about Donald Trump since then?

ROBIN: I'm still a Trump supporter, even more now. I'm very looking forward to another victory for President Donald Trump.

CO: What is it that he has done that has kept you loyal?

ROBIN: Well, unlike many other politicians, he's not a politician and he seems very approachable. Actually, I've come close to meeting him. I feel he's very much on the up and up with people because he's not a politician. He does not owe anybody anything. But he's kept his promises about security and he supports the law enforcement and the defense and our country's army and military, which is what our family -- they support also.

CO: Has he actually improved your lives?

ROBIN: Yes, he has improved our lives because the taxes alone for my children that have children, they have gotten a couple thousand each child that they saw on his taxes and we all made out from his tax policies.

CO: And what about work? Your son and your son in law, when we spoke with you last, they both work in the oil industry. What are they saying about this vote?

ROBIN: Well, my son in law, I'm not conversing with him because he's living in Michigan. But my son, live near us -- we talk to him every day and he is very much hoping Trump wins again because the oil industry and the gas industry, all that comes from them is so immense that it would affect everybody's lives because you're not talking just heating and flying airplanes. You're talking about every facet of your life. The petroleum industry is immense. It would mean thousands and thousands of jobs gone. And we don't, of course, want that. And our son, he relies on that for his income.

CO: Now, Joe Biden is saying that if he is the president, that he will phase out the fossil fuels, but he will do it gradually. And he said that will be replaced with renewable energy. But he will continue to see some support for the industry as that transition is going on. What does that say to you?

ROBIN: It's a disaster. That's what it says, because he has said in past interviews too, that he does not want fracking in any way or place. That would make a huge disaster on our country.

CO: You have a daughter who is not a Trump supporter. What does she say about all this?

ROBIN: Well, she doesn't talk so much about all of what we've been talking about. She mainly doesn't like Trump's personality. And I know that's a big thing with a lot of people because he comes off a little harsh at times. Now, I personally like his personality because I think he's right out there. He's very humorous at times. I'm not sure who she's voting for. But I get the impression that she may vote for Biden, but I'm not sure.

CO: We spoke to another Republican the other day, a very strong Republican, and has been for years. He's an evangelical Christian in Alabama. He said that he will write in another name on the ballot, that he cannot bring himself to vote for Donald Trump because he regards him as an immoral man. Do you have any misgivings about the president's character?

ROBIN: No, because for one thing, I mean, nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. And you know what? He did have a little bit of a shady past, I guess if you want to judge him. But I feel as a Christian myself, God is the final judge.

CO: The man we spoke with, the Christian Republican, he said that he feels the United States is exhausted -- it's tired of Donald Trump. And others have pointed out the things that Donald Trump has said about Mexicans or Muslims, about his relations with young women. His remarks that military vets are suckers and losers. Does any of that bother you?

ROBIN: You know, I know you're in Canada and I know you may not have access to other news sources, but what they said he said about the soldiers and that is totally 100 percent false cause he is the only president that goes out of his way for the military in this country. And the other things, they are just to bring him down. That's how I feel. He may be exhausted, the other person you're talking about, because it is exhausting because our media in America is very biased. They do not report the news. They cover up the news. We can't put on a news station and find the truth because it's all slamming our president. And that's okay because he's a fighter. And that's why I love him, because he will fight for our country.

CO: Is there any doubt in your mind that Donald Trump will be president again? He will win again on Tuesday?

ROBIN: I have a strong feeling that he is going to win. I have a strong feeling because I see the rallies, I see the signs all around me. Polls are up for Biden by a few points. But guess what? The polls were up for Hillary Clinton by a lot of points.

CO: Robin, we'll leave it there and we'll see what happens on Tuesday. Thanks for speaking with us.

RS: Okay, thank you for having me Carol.

CH: Robin is a retired teacher and a Trump supporter. She was in Ohio.

[Music]

Cecilia Chiang obit

Guest: Ruth Reichl

CH: She's been called the "Mother of Chinese food in America" and a legend in the world of Food period. In the 1960s, chef and restaurant owner Cecilia Chiang dared Americans to see beyond chop suey and egg foo young, giving many of her guests their very first taste of authentic Chinese cuisine. Yesterday, Cecilia Chiang died peacefully in her home. She was 100 years old. Here she is speaking to CNN on its Great Big Story podcast in 2018 about her early impressions of American Chinese food.

CECILIA CHIANG: In 1959, I came to San Francisco visiting my sister, Sophie. We lived at the edge of Chinatown. The first time I notice the food -- I said, is this Chinese food? My sister said, yes. I looked at the menu: chop suey, egg foo young. I'm originally born near Shanghai. And I said, I don't remember we tasted any of this in China. So my sister says they say American Chinese food.

CH: Cecilia Chiang in 2018. The trailblazer, mentor, and extraordinary chef died yesterday. Ruth Reichl was a friend of Ms. Chiang. We reached Ms. Reichl author, cook, and food critic in Spencer Town, New York.

CO: Ruth, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

RUTH REICHL: Thank you. It's a loss for all of us.

CO: We just heard a bit of Cecilia Chiang's voice there. Her sense of humor, her commitment to good food. Where does that voice, where does what she said take you?

RR: This is probably not [chuckles] what you might want to hear, but Cecilia knew that I loved sea cucumbers. And we were at a banquet once and she had made, among many other dishes, sea cucumbers. And she gave me this huge portion and nobody else at the table liked sea cucumbers. Everybody, when her back was turned, would pass them over to me. And then Cecilia would turn her and say, oh, Ruth, you need some more sea cucumbers. [Chuckles] So I probably ate four pounds of sea cucumbers that day. But her generosity was extraordinary and her sense of fun and her sense of adventure. You know, I mean, she never let 'no' get to her. Whatever life served up, she she answered it with yes, and went forward. And, you know, besides food and, you know, certainly she taught all of us a lot about Chinese food and Chinese culture -- but beyond that, she gave us all an attitude about life. She just grabbed life and lived it and made you feel like a fool if you weren't doing the same.

CO: We sure know what she thought of American so-called Chinese food. In that clip she is talking about chop suey, and egg foo young. What was her cooking like?

RR: Well, when she talks to about chop suey and egg foo young, what she's really talking about is that American Chinese food was something that was developed by essentially the people who came over here to work on the railroads and they weren't cooks and they were sort of remembering the food that they had grown up with. Cecilia grew up in a very wealthy household with two cooks. And so the food that she knew was very classic Shanghainese food. Her cooking was elegant. You know, she was not herself a chef or she didn't start out that way. But she had extraordinary food memory. And she remembered what the taste of the food that she'd grown up on was. And she hired chefs and then pushed them to execute the food to the way that she had remembered it. And, you know, in America we had never tasted that food before.

CO: And so how was it received? She opened the Mandarin restaurant on her own. It was unusual for a woman the time. She was a very recent arrival to the United States. How difficult was that to say, I'm going to not only open a restaurant, but I'm not going to put out food the way the Chinese American cuisine is laid out? I'm going to do it my way. How difficult was that?

RR: It was very difficult, not only for the American audience, but also for the Chinese audience, because Chinatown was people from Canton. It was a completely different cuisine, a different language, and they didn't want to sell it to her. So she had a lot of audiences to overcome. But she was intrepid and she just, you know, I mean, she was an accidental restaurateur. I mean, she didn't intend to open a restaurant. She had lent someone the money to open their restaurant. And when they backed out, she didn't want to go home and say to her husband, I just lost 10,000 dollars. So she decided she would open it herself.

CO: She didn't open in Chinatown, did she, it wasn't her style.

RR: She never opened in Chinatown. I mean, she opened at first a small restaurant in the Avenues. Then she opened this beautiful, huge restaurant in Ghirardelli Square, very elegant. And she had three homes, one in San Francisco, one in Beverly Hills and one over in Marin, and Mercedes in each home and an incredible wardrobe in each home. And she once said to me, you know, you don't really make money in the restaurant business -- you make money by listening to financial advice of your very wealthy customers. [Laughter]

CO: She also taught how to do it. I can't believe the students she had: Alice Waters, Chuck Williams, Julia Child, James Beard, Danny Kaye -- the actor. I mean, what was she like in the kitchen?

RR: She was wonderful. I mean, she taught herself basically to cook. I mean, it wasn't something she had done, but because she had to, you know, get the chefs to work for her, to get the food right, she became a chef herself. But she always had, you know, lots of people running around in the kitchen for her. You know, you chop this and do this. She wasn't someone who would have gone on Top Chef and, you know, showing off her knife skills.

CO: But she changed the way that Chinese food was served in the United States, didn't she?

RR: She absolutely did. And I have to tell you, my favourite Cecillia story. She took Alice Waters and Marion Cunningham to China on a trip. And Alice was pregnant and Marion didn't drink. But they kept going to Chinese banquets. And, you know, in Chinese banquets, at every course, there's a toast and you knock back this glass of Chinese whiskey. And because she did not want to embarrass her hosts by saying, well, you know, neither of my friends can drink right now. She drank theirs and hers for 32 courses and walked away.

CO: [Laughter] Ruth, it's just great that you would share your memories of Cecilia Chiang with us. And again, sorry for the loss of your friend. Thank you.

RR: Well, thank you.

CH: Ruth Reichl is an author, cook and food critic. We reached her in Spencer Town, New York. She was remembering her friend, chef Cecilia Chiang, who died yesterday at age 100.

[Music]

ASMR for Newfoundlanders

CH: For those of us who respond to ASMR, it doesn't really matter what the soft voices coming out of YouTube say. It all feels [whispering] pretty darn good. Autonomous sensory meridian response is the fancy name for a tingling feeling and a sense of well-being that some people experience when they're spoken to in whispers or when they watch someone completing a repetitive task on video. It's a really popular genre on YouTube. And now there's ASMR specifically for Newfoundlanders. Here's part of a video posted recently by St. John's actor Evan Mercer.

EVAN MERCER: [Whispering] Would you? Would you? The shaka wants a dinner drink now. [Soda can opening sound] Loves the Pepsi. Butter put on too much salt beef. Close the freaking door boy, you're letting the millers in. Did you hear about Bernice's young one? He's right into the trucks now. [Tapping sound] Freak I've made -- I told you I am only having couple with the boys.

CH: This was part of an ASMR video that St. John's actor Evan Mercer made, especially for Newfoundlanders.

[Music]

Part 2: 'Be ready to jump,' says organizer of Calgary's Tunnel of Terror car wash

Iran victims harassment

Guest: Hamed Esmaeilion

CH: He's already going through unimaginable suffering. And in the midst of it, Hamed Esmaeilion says he's also receiving hateful messages. Nearly 10 months ago, the Ontario man lost his wife and nine year old daughter. Both were passengers on Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, which Iran says its military shot down accidentally after the plane took off from Tehran. All the passengers were killed, including more than 50 Canadian citizens and 30 permanent residents. In the months since that tragedy, Mr. Esmaeilion says he's been getting abusive messages. And he's not alone. Other family members of victims are being targeted too. Hamed Esmaeilion is the spokesperson for the Association of Families of Victims of the tragedy. We reached him in Aurora, Ontario.

CO: Hamed, how are you dealing with these threats and these hateful messages that you're getting?

HAMED ESMAEILION: It's very disturbing, actually. This is not new to me. This is something that's going on for the last nine months. And this is part of my life. At the beginning, I didn't take them serious. But I think in my opinion, the more results we got these kind of messages, they intensified and now they are they look more serious to me.

CO: In October, things have got worse. Can you tell us about that?

HE: Yeah, we had a rally in nine cities on 5th of October. There were a few incidents that happened together that made us worried. And one was like a car, like a suspicious car, parked in front of my house exactly at the time that I was coming back from Ottawa -- it did some strange moves around the house. And I was not there at that time. My cousin and my mom were there. But five minutes later, I arrived and I heard that there was a car and we couldn't catch the plate number. And then there's a guy who is calling me like two or three times he has called me and he has said very disturbing, he has said that let's talk about the last moments of your wife and your daughter.

CO: That's horrible.

HE: It is. It is. I don't know why and I don't know who he is and I don't know where he has found my phone number. And the same day he had called me, I blocked that person, you know, after the first phone call. But then he had tried to reach out to me again. I don't know why. And the next day, there was a message on Instagram that you're on the list of terror and just enjoy your life before you get killed, and you would be a lesson for the out of country traitors.

CO: These messages, are they in English?

HE: No. Farsi. And no, I haven't received any English message, no.

CO: Do you think they're coming from inside Canada?

HE: Hateful messages? Some are, yes. They're from Canada. But I think the majority of them are from Iran, especially in May and June and July when we ran a campaign that Iran's skies are not safe and we were seeking justice for the passengers and we were not happy that the European airliners, they go to use Iran space like the corridor. And when we asked for that and more than 50,000 people signed that, oh, there were tons of messages coming to us. And some of them, they don't even deny the identification. And some of them are in Canada. And they tried to defame me. They tried to just sort of insult me. And I think all of them are on social media. It's easy for police or for who is taking care of this to find those messages.

CO: And this is because you and others are trying to get justice for what happened to your loved ones, that your daughter -- Reera, nine years old, your wife both killed in that. And other people are also getting these messages. What is it that is so disturbing to those who are threatening you about that?

HE: Yeah, I don't understand why they send these kind of messages to us because we haven't done any fault. We just bought a ticket for an airplane and that's it. And we just want to know why and how this crime was committed. And for asking these questions, they accuse us, they insult us. And I don't understand that. This is our right to find closure to know what exactly happened. There's something behind this crime that we have to go to the bottom of it.

CO: And what we do know is that the plane was shot down by the Iranian military, killing everybody on board. Do you think that there is an effort here to prevent you from knowing what really happened?

HE: Yeah, I think there are big names involved in this crime. And it's not just a human or a low ranking officer here. So we have to see how we can get to the bottom of this without an international investigation, because Iran is leading this investigation and they have done their best to hide the truth and not answer any of those questions. So now it's a good thing that we have forensic team in Canada, they started their work like a week ago. And hopefully we can find out what was the purpose, how this happened, because we can't discount the possibility of this attack being intentional. And we don't know why that was in the middle of the war situation in the area between Iran and the U.S.. But why Iran did that? Why Iran didn't close airspace? Why they let these passengers -- personally myself, my wife didn't know that Iran attacked the U.S. bases in Iraq and they couldn't find her in the airport. And they shot two missiles -- 25 seconds gap in between them. So if it's a mistake, if it is a human error, why two times?

CO: Meanwhile, the threats that you're getting. Have you reported them to the police?

HE: Yes. Yes. I was in the police station on Friday and I met a local police officer and RCMP officer. And I think in near future, they're going to check my phone and have my phone probably for one or two days and check all those messages to see where they come from.

CO: So they're taking this very seriously then?

HE: I think so, yeah.

CO: Hamed I'm so sorry that you are dealing with all this after the enormous loss that you have had in your life.

HE: Thank you very much. Thank you.

CO: And I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

CH: Hamed Esmaeilion lost his daughter and his wife when the Iranian military shot down a Ukraine international airlines flight. We reached him in Aurora, Ontario.

[Music]

Kayln Dwyer

CH: Yesterday, a New Brunswick man was given a not guilty verdict. And moments later he was given the gift of forgiveness. A jury found William Jordan of St. John not guilty of manslaughter in relation to a fight he had with a man named Anthony Dwyer. The jury heard that Mr. Jordan punched Mr. Dwyer in the face, causing him to fall and hit his head on the pavement. After the verdict was announced, Anthony Dwyer's daughter went up to William Jordan's mother and hugged her, and then she hugged the accused. Here's Kayln Dwyer speaking to the CBC outside the courtroom.

KAYLN DWYER: When I walked in Friday morning and I saw his mother, I am a mother of three children and I could not imagine being in her shoes. So I just wanted to thank them for having to be part of this process with us and apologize that this is the terms on which we met. I did a lot of praying through all of this, and I think that a lot of prayers were answered today in a lot of different ways. So I just wanted to make sure that Will knew that, you know, there is no anger from us anymore. We understand. I have to live with what has happened now, and I will never get that back with my father. So I know that he would have apologized for making William feel uncomfortable in any situation. And I'm going to stand proud to that. So for me, letting this go is how I'm going to heal and I'm looking forward to it. He is so much more than what was displayed that night. And I know that if he were here, he would apologize for his actions and that should show the character that he had as a man.

REPORTER: And you said you were expecting this verdict. Were you hoping for a different one?

KAYLN DWYER: I think regardless, nobody wins. So guilty or not guilty, that verdict doesn't change the situation at hand. He's a young man. And I pray that he learns from this and he does great things with his life now. So I am hopeful of that.

CH: That was Kayln Dwyer, the daughter of a St. John man who died after an altercation in 2018. Yesterday, she hugged and forgave the accused, William Jordan, who was found not guilty of manslaughter.

[Music]

Haunted car wash

Guest: Lauren Hanney

CH: A dark tunnel, grasping tentacles, rushing air like the screams of angry phantoms. And that's just a car wash on a regular day. But this weekend, some Calgary car washes will be even more frightening as they mutate horribly into a haunted house, in the time of physical distancing. The city's Great White Wash is no stranger to scarifying itself. It pioneered the Halloween tradition last year. Lauren Hanney is helping to organize this year's tunnel of terror. We reached her in Calgary.

CO: Lauren, tell us a bit about what the car wash looks like just from the outside, first of all, before you even get into the scarier parts.

LAUREN HANNEY: Yes. So before you get into the scary part, we have the entire place decked out from 12 foot skeletons to coffins. We have giant "Tunnel of Terror" signs, so if anybody's unsure of where they need to go, they'll find us really easy. We have enough decorations to pack the entire place.

CO: It's already scary from the outside. And then what -- you stay in your car and what happens? Where do you go?

LH: So we'll drive you guys through to the pay stations, which nobody will need to touch. So on the COVID side, it's nice and safe. And then you go through the car wash itself. So through the automatic tunnel where we also have scarers within.

CO: Okay, so what happens when you get inside the tunnel?

LH: So when you get into the tunnel, the first thing that'll happen is you'll see a lot of arch that's going to come down over the car and everything is basically blacked out within the tunnel. So you're not really going to see very much except for the flashing lights. And then as you go through, you're going to have scarers that are going to basically be at your windows on each side. So you're not going expect them, but they're definitely going to be there. So be ready to jump.

CO: This is terrifying. [Laughter] I mean, I'm afraid in a car wash without anything, just with the soap and the water going. So this feels so creepy, right?

LH: Well that's the fun of it. But we also want to let people know that if they do have younger kids in the car and they're kind of like, okay, we don't need as much of a scare as some people, they can let the guys know at the pay station, because we know there is a lot of families that are coming by so there's no need to worry. We won't go over the top if you don't want us to.

CO: Go over the top. I mean, we don't want to give it all away, but what would be going over the top?

LH: Well, I mean, it depends how many jumps do you want to have while going through the tunnel? Because we've got a long tunnel that we can easily get a lot of scares in through.

CO: What's the scariest thing you can throw at people?

LH: Well, I mean, you're definitely on have your car touched. It's not going to be like hitting your car or anything like that. No worries. But like you could be driving along just kind of like thinking everything's cool, nobody is going to touch you and you can have even massive handprints come like right next to you against the window. Or you may also have a scary clown come right against your window.

CO: No. No, this is awful. [Laughter] What gets the biggest screams?

LH: Oh, goodness, honestly, it depends on the car and what people are nervous about. So this year it's bigger than last year, so we're going to have a lot more scares that's going to happen. So the thing is, we've got more costumes. So, I mean, it's mostly personal preference on what exactly you're scared of, whether it's killer clowns or if you're afraid of, like Freddy Krueger type thing. But either way, you're going to have jumps through the tunnel and when you come out at the end as well.

CO: So you can actually ask for the scare -- whatever scares you, you think you might be able to produce that, like you can actually kind of custom make the scare for people?

LH: Well, you can definitely say what you're scare level is. So if you're like, yeah, we definitely want to get scared. We have enough people that will make it happen.

CO: You go through it. What is the scariest part for you?

LH: I think the scariest part, honestly, is when you're in the tunnel because you just don't know when something's going to jump out. Like, it's more of a thing of when you're outside, you can see the scared walking around so you can kind of prep yourself. Whereas when you're in the tunnel, there is no way of knowing when somebody is going to be near you.

CO: How scared have you seen people get?

LH: Oh God. We've had, like, little kids shout out the window when they get to the end of the tunnel at scarers because they frighten them so much. They say, oh, my God, you guys are so mean. Like, it's hilarious. And obviously the parents think it's absolutely brilliant, which is good.

CO: Do they come back for more?

LH: Oh, for sure. We actually had people that would come back multiple nights last year because a lot of the people, if they have one of our club memberships, so if they are monthly member, they don't have to pay for it. So we had a lot of like recurring customers last year where they would come and be like, oh, my God, that was so amazing. And then they'd grab their other family and friends and they'd bring them through as well.

CO: OK. I've seen a video of people going through and they're just freaking out completely. So inside the car, how are they reacting inside the car? Do you know?

LH: Oh, they're jumping around. Like you can definitely see people moving from one side of the car and within half a second everybody's on the other side of the car. It's fun to watch. I'm not going to lie. This year what we're doing is because we have the two tunnels now, we've partnered with Bluebird Self-Storage, which is right next to us. We're turned in their breezeway also into a tunnel. Now, that's going to be a bit more relaxed. It'll still be completely full of Halloween yourself. But we're going to be handing you candy in there, which has been safely packaged. And it's all like sealed candies, which is good because obviously we know, some kids aren't going to be able to trick or treat this year. So we want to still give that aspect in there. So what we're going to do is on the way out, when the guys are going, we're going to take pictures of the people within the cars and then we're going to upload everything to our Facebook page. So for all the parents, who want to have fun pictures of their kids freaking out in the back of the car, this is your time to do it.

CO: [Laughter] So basically, though, that we can't have haunted houses this year, this is the thing. So this is, I guess, a safe way to have your living daylights scared out of you.

LH: Yeah. Exactly. Like this is our second year to do this one. I know a lot of the places around Calgary, this is their first year doing it just due to COVID. Obviously, this is our second year. We did do it last year. So we kind of have more of an idea what we want to do. So we're able to do that more. But obviously now with the safety side of things, we definitely make sure we've taken the steps. So all of our staff will have gloves, they'll have face masks, and nobody will need to either get out of their car or touch anything while they're in the car because we'll have the staff do everything. So people do not need to worry when they're coming in about the safety side of things. We've got that 100 percent covered.

CO: And as you go through all of this, do you get your car cleaned?

LH: Oh, yeah, for sure. When you go through the automatic tunnel, you get an entire car clean. So on the plus side, realistically, you're getting your chores done while you're having fun. Your car is fully cleaned. It's already for the next day. You good to go.

CO: That's hilarious. Okay, we're going to send connections so people can see this online. It's wild. And, Lauren, it's great to talk to you. Thanks so much.

LH: Yeah. Thank you so much.

CH: We reached Lauren Hanney in Calgary. And to see more about the city's haunted car wash, go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Canada Dry

CH: Tahiti Treat -- the bright pink pop that's now called to Tahitian Treat apparently is a treat, but it was not invented in Tahiti and it has no flavours reminiscent of Tahiti. That doesn't really matter, though, any more than the fact that cream soda contains little to no heavy cream. But Canada Dry ginger ale is more problematic. For one thing, it's very close to 100 percent wet. But more important, a lot of us think that since ginger is good for us, ginger ale must be at least sort of good for us and Canada Dry must be made with real ginger because there's a label on it that says 'made with real ginger.' That is what Victor Cardoso of British Columbia thought. But then he learned that Canada Dry treats the ginger chemically until it has no medicinal benefits at all, and then adds about half a smidgen of a whisper of useless ginger concentrate to each can. So Mr. Cardoso filed a class action lawsuit. That bold suit has just concluded in a 200,000 dollar settlement. Almost all of which goes to a legal foundation and not to Victor Cardoso, plus which the settlement stipulates that the company denies liability and doesn't have to change any of its labeling or advertising. So it's kind of a triumph that he was able to get to the root or lack of root of the problem. But this amount of money feels like the ginger concentrate in Canada Dry ginger ale: a drop in the bucket.

[Music]

Michael Green

CH: There appears to be little sympathy for the truck driver convicted in the Humboldt Broncos bus crash, but his lawyer thinks there should be. The crash in April 2018 was a moment of national mourning. 16 people were killed and 13 injured when a transport truck slammed into the bus full of Saskatchewan hockey players. The truck driver, Jaskirat Singh Sidhu was sentenced to eight years in prison and he faces possible deportation to India. But his lawyer, Michael Green, thinks his client deserves to stay in Canada. He spoke to CBC Regina's Morning Edition today.

MICHAEL GREEN: So the process for any permanent resident who commits a serious crime is that they can face possible deportation. It's not automatic. Mostly they give a hearing in front of a board, an independent tribunal. But parliament, in its wisdom, took that away. And now the decision is made by an officer. And they look at all the circumstances of the case. They look at the incident, the crime, I should say itself, look at its impact, they look at how serious was it. And then they look at the individual. And is that person remorseful? Are they rehabilitated? Is there a risk to society from that individual? And then they look at also his circumstances. How well established is he? What is his support network? And what's he got to contribute to society? So he's got a lot of factors of those in his favour that it couldn't be a more serious crime in the sense of the impact on people. That is, you know, catastrophic. But in terms of the nature of it, it wasn't intentional. There's no history of any criminality in his background whatsoever. He couldn't be more remorseful. He couldn't be more sorry. And he's clearly not the kind of guy that is going to commit another offense. So put altogether, it's going to be an extremely difficult decision for an officer to make. The easy way will be just to [inaudible]. But there's a lot going in this man's favour. And there's a lot of people out there, I think, who feel he deserves a second chance at life.

STEFANI LANGENEGGER: What sense do you have of wider support across this country for Mr. Sidhu?

MICHAEL GREEN: I understand that some people there will never be enough of a punishment for some people and that they just can never be. But there are a lot of people who believe in forgiveness, and they also realize that this was a perfect storm of circumstances where his carelessness was certainly a determinative factor. But there are other things at play.

CH: Michael Green is the lawyer for the truck driver sentenced to prison and possible deportation for the Humboldt Broncos bus crash. He was speaking to Stefani Langengger host of CBC Regina's Morning Edition today.

[Music]

Part 3: Maryland descendants fight highway expansion that threatens historic Black cemetery

Maryland graveyard

Guest: Diane Baxter

CH: You can't see the Moses Morningstar Cemetery in Bethesda, Maryland, from the highway that cuts through its northern border, which may be by design. The historic African-American cemetery dates back to the 1890. But in the early 1960s, planners saw fit to run the new Capital Beltway Interstate right through the area separating the graveyard from the community it served -- a community called Gibson Grove. And now people there are fighting a new injustice, a proposed expansion of the interstate. Diane Baxter's great grandfather is buried in Moses Morningstar Cemetery. We reached her in Washington, D.C..

CO: Diane, what do you worry will happen to the cemetery if this highway construction proceeds?

DIANE BAXTER: Well, if it proceeds that means that they will encroach on the cemetery and graves. Well, it means that the graves will have to be moved -- if they can find all of them.

CO: Very few of the graves are marked in the cemetery, is that right?

DB: Yes. Very few of the graves are marked, they have survived the test of time. But many of the graves are marked by stone, not so much grade markers as you would typically know it, but either it's by stone or it's by something sticking out of the ground. But we have identified over 80 possibilities of persons being buried there. Now, I can tell you my great grandfather was buried there in 1894 and the possibilities of finding something with his name on it is practically null. And I would imagine at this point it would be some sort of an indentation in the ground if that at all, and maybe down to ashes and ashes.

CO: I just want to ask you a bit about the community itself. Tell us a bit about this. This was established by emancipated slaves, is that right?

DB: Yes, that is correct. After the Civil War, the area was purchased by -- let's see, his name is Moore. And there was a community that purchased land from him. And as a result of that, it was a thriving community and they just expanded. And apparently there was a need to develop an organization, that being the Moses Morningstar, to help protect themselves in cover the kinds of things that they needed -- fuel expenses, to take care of the sick, to take care of the burials, to do whatever they needed to do. And it was through that organization that it thrived and they would take care of the community.

CO: It's named after Sarah Gibson, who herself was liberated from slavery by union soldiers. And she was the one that wanted to see the church and the cemetery and the community established there. Is that right?

DB: Right. Well, the church came after the cemetery and the hold. And yes, she did provide the land for which the church was constructed. And actually, she is actually buried in the cemetery.

CO: It's just such an extraordinary piece of history. And it just seems so neglected, doesn't it?

DB: Well, it was neglected from the standpoint back in the, I think, late 70s or so -- 1970s, there was a fire that destroyed the hold. With it being a scene in the community, I guess at that time that there was not the ability to resurrect it. And it just kind of died off with the individuals.

CO: Tell us a bit about your great grandfather and the people that he may be buried in that cemetery with.

DB: Well, my great grandfather was born in 1850. And I believe that his father was enslaved in the area. And upon getting their freedom, they purchased land and ultimately started a community. He married and had five sons, which I think three or maybe four of them were members of the Moses Tabernacle.

CO: And the community was someplace where people could come during segregation just to have a place to meet, to share ideas, and to get resources. It was really important for a lot of liberated people in Maryland, wasn't it?

DB: Yes. I mean, even though they were liberated, it was still a segregated area from the standpoint that Blacks had to fend for themselves and therefore created organizations and churches that were truly our own. And it was because of that, that's how they survived.

CO: So in the 1960s, when they first built the Beltway Intrastate, it went right through this area, went right through Gibson Grove and separated the church and cemetery. Are people remembering that as they're now battling against what might happen to the rest of the cemetery, is that fresh in people's minds?

DB: Yes, it is. It's very fresh in people's minds. Even though those who may have been around at that time are no longer with us, it's a wound -- it's a deep wound that will never go away.

CO: So when Maryland highway officials say that they will mitigate any damage to these sensitive areas, do people take any comfort in that?

DB: No. You can't mitigate removing a burial. You can't mitigate removing your grandparents or your mother's grave. How do you do that when this is an area that was dedicated and preserved and fought for to be a family community? You can't mitigate that. That's a wound that runs deep.

CO: How determined is the state to build that highway through there?

DB: I think they're determined, just like any other project that they may want to do. But there are a number of organizations and high officials in the Maryland community that are joined with us in support and are insisting that they make other plans for this highway widening and also not to cause additional damage what was already done in the 60s.

CO: But for you and for those who are opposed to it, what you want to see happen is that the final resting place of your relatives is undisturbed?

DB: That is correct. That is correct.

CO: Do you think that things are different now than they are the 1960s, that you have more support to resist this?

DB: Yes, I think things are different. Certainly, those who were aware are no longer with us and may not have had the clout that we have today and it is because of the clout that we have today and the advancements of the African-American community that we will survive the test of time.

CO: Diane, we will be watching what happens there. And it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

DB: You are quite welcome.

CH: Diane Baxter is fighting a proposed highway expansion that would encroach on a historic African-American cemetery in Maryland where her great grandfather is buried. She was in Washington, D.C.. And you can find out more about the Moses' Morningstar Cemetery at: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Carole James

CH: Last week's provincial election in British Columbia was the first time Carole James wasn't on the ballot in three decades. The long-time Victoria NDP MLA, who has served as BC's deputy premier and finance minister, is leaving politics after revealing at the start of this year that she'd been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. Carole James reflected on her career in an interview with the CBC and spoke about how the tone of politics has changed in that time.

CAROLE JAMES: It certainly is one of the challenges, I think, in politics these days, the nastiness is certainly worse than when I ran in 1994 for school board. There wasn't Twitter then. You didn't have the opportunity for people to be anonymous. It really can be an awful experience. And I think women face that more in politics than anyone else. I've had people say to me, why on earth would I put my name forward? Why would I put my family through that experience? So you learn a few things along the way. I've had people, of course, say you develop thicker skin. No question. But I think you don't want to develop completely thick skin because then you don't feel other things. You don't feel the good parts. You don't remember the positive parts. I think what you do learn is to let it go. You learn not to hang onto those nasty comments in the way you do when you first run. So I remind people, don't spend time on social media. Cut back on your social media time. Get out and meet real people in your community. Take the opportunity to be able to do something, particularly in this place, in Victoria, to take the opportunity to make a difference for individuals to do that constituency work, because that'll help you get through the really nasty times and the really tough times. But I do worry that we're moving away from the ability to be able to have a good dialog on challenging problems. That's really my big focus. I hope something I can do a little bit of work in after I'm finished up here. The challenges that are ahead of us, the problems that are ahead of us don't have easy solutions. If they did, we would have fixed them by now. And it's going to require people of all political stripes, of all diverse groups in our communities to come together and resolve some of these issues. And we have to get past that, them and us. You're with us or against us kind of approach that I've seen in politics over the last number of years.

GREGOR CRAIGIE: You mentioned you might still be available even though you'll be retired. I mean, do you expect people, whether it's in government or young candidates, party members, coming forward -- do you expect to be engaged still in the years ahead?

CAROLE JAMES: I certainly hope so. I think retirement for everyone is different than it used to be 50 years ago. I think retirement was not working. I think no one would expect me not to be working, particularly in my family. I think they know that I won't be happy if I'm sitting around not doing anything. So I'm looking forward to taking on some challenges -- it's part of the job I love: problem solving, bringing folks together across party lines, being able to resolve big challenges that are there. So my hope is I'll be able to do that with a little better balance of being able to also look after my health and spend some time on my health and a little bit more time with the grandkids as well.

GREGOR CRAIGIE: Some of your colleagues, I think it was, gave you boxing gloves. And readers of The Times Colonist saw you sporting these very bright boxing gloves. What was the significance of that and what did you take away from the gift?

CAROLE JAMES: So boxing is one of those exercises that has actually been proven in research to assist with Parkinson's disease. Parkinson's is a progressive disease, so you can't stop the progression, but you can deal with the symptoms. And one of those exercises is boxing because it helps with hand-eye coordination, with returning your brain, with balance, all of those issues that become a challenge with Parkinson's. So much to the surprise of my kids who I am not sure they really believe that I'm going to follow through with it, but I'm determined to do something completely out of my comfort zone and do some boxing classes and do some boxing lessons.

CH: That was long-time B.C. politician Carole James speaking with Gregor Craigie, the host of CBC Victoria's On The Island.

[Music]

Hadrian's Wall walk

Guest: John Myatt

CH: In the north of England sits one of the more noteworthy sites of ancient Roman and British history, Hadrian's Wall. And if you were surveying its majesty recently, you might have noticed something else equally majestic and noteworthy, albeit also absurd and confusing: there was a man wearing little more than boots, a speedo and a helmet. His name is John Myatt, and he was lowering his temperature to raise money for charity. We reached him in Gloucester, England.

CO: John, we know that Hadrian's Wall is in the north of England. The month is October, and yet there you were in skimpy swimming trunks and a pair of boots. What were you doing?

JOHN MYATT: I was on a mission to walk Hadrian's Wall because I was due to go on a family holiday, it was cut short because of COVID. And I'm an ice swimmer and I wanted pushed my body to the max. And I thought by doing it in speedos, like my friends suggested it would be a good idea. And then my uncle is a [inaudible] in Gloucester. And he got me into the museum and he said, Gloucester has got a strong Roman heritage. And he had a Roman helmet for me. He wanted me to try that on.

CO: I did miss out that that key detail of your outfit that you're wearing nothing but a Speedo bathing suit, the boots, and a Roman helmet when you began this walk. Of course, you were carrying a pack with you.

JM: Yeah. I originally set eye -- what was I was going to do while camping. And I bought all the kit and the pack weighed about 40 pounds, which is like a standard sort of army pack size. And I hadn't done any walking training and hadn't carrying the weight before. And on the very first day I walked 24 miles and by the end of that, it had really taken its toll on my gluts and my legs. And I was on the scream in agony, thinking I wouldn't be able to get next day to actually walk.

CO: But you spent four days on his work.

JM: Yeah four days. [Chuckles] Four miserable days.

CO: Was it cold?

JM: Yeah, it was cold in parts, especially in the morning and towards the evening.

CO: Did you have anything in your pack that you attempted to put on?

JM: No, no. I stuck to the plan. People were telling me, you know, if it gets really bad, put stuff on. But in my head, that would be cheating. The only thing I did is like where the rucksack was digging in, I put some sleeves underneath the rucksack on my shoulders so that it wouldn't cut into me.

CO: I understand there's also a bit of chafing in some other places.

JM: People did warn me about that. And I took some glide stick and I lubricated those sort of areas where potentially I was going to get friction. But it didn't stop it and it got quite sore. In the very first phase of my walk, I bumped into a guy called Mike Brook and he was an ex-army guy and then I retired. He is 67. And he walked the first 12 miles with me. And then he ends up being my sort of guardian angel because he turned up at various places with food and was playing military music in his car, even at a pub with a drum of whiskey from me to sit down. And so he kept my spirits up.

CO: Did you run into anybody else?

JM: Yeah. I ran into a lot of walkers. I think a lot of national and heritage sites were realizing that I was walking because they see it on their group pages. So a lot of walkers were expecting to bump into me and it was well received to be honest, and people were very generous in giving donations.

CO: Nobody thought you were crazy?

JM: Yeah, they all thought I was crazy. [Laughter] Even I thought I was a bit crazy, really. You know, sometimes I sort of question my own sanity. You know, why I do these things. I always have to, like, push myself for some reason. I've always been that way. And whenever I take on the challenge, I always have to do it to the max.

CO: Let me ask you about your Roman helmet because I understand it gave you a bit of grief in the high wind. What happened there?

JM: Yes. So what was happening, you've got the -- I'm not sure what they're called in the side, but then the flaps that protect your chin, But the wind was catching it and it just kept smacking me in the jaw. So I probably got smacked in the jaw, probably about two or three thousand times during the course of the walk. You know, not really thunderous, but it does start to get annoying. It almost like some sort of torture.

CO: [Chuckles] You have to wonder if you're on Hadrian's Wall, how they put up with it. I mean, as you're walking along, did it cross your mind like , what it must have been like?

JM: Well, I was thinking, why did Romans square jaws? And I thought it's because they keep getting hit with the helmet inside the jaw. [Laughter]

CO: And where did you sleep at night?

JM: Yeah. So I originally planned to sleep in a tent. But that plan was trashed because I was walking for such a long time and some days I was walking eleven hours and into the night and I think it would've been too unsafe really to pitch tents up, and then being as cold as I was. So I ended up sleeping in a glamping pod the first night that someone put up and someone gifted me. Which was nice. And a hotel prepared some food and it all there waiting for me. But on that first night, I remember getting into bed and then I had to get out to get the food and I couldn't stand up. And I was in that much agony that I had to actually crawl across the floor to get to the food and then drag it back to the bed. And I was like really questioning myself about whether I could do this the next day. And that was the very first day. And then I ended up staying in a microbrewery. And second night in a hotel. And then on the third night I stopped at a couple's house that has a little apartment on the side of it. And funny enough, about 600 metres I forgot the house and I tripped over in the woods and I landed face down in a muddy bog. Helmet filled with mud and I was just covered from head to foot with mud. So I knocked on this poor couple's door, this couple looks at me and I said I've had an accident. And they said, you're all right. And yeah, they sort of really helped me. They took my helmet, cleaned it up, cleaned my walking poles, fed me, and I was good to go the next day.

CO: What's your next mission?

JM: I'm sort of planning to swim to France in 2022. I want to be the first person to do it double arm backstroke -- which is two arms over at the same time on your back with a pressure leg kick. And I think they call it, Old English backstroke.

CO: You have the Speedo bathing suit, but I would leave the helmet behind on that journey.

JM: Definitely. There's no way I can swim with a helmet on. [Laughter]

CO: All right, John it's great to talk to you. Thanks.

JM: Okay. Thank you.

CH: John Myatt recently spent four days walking the length of Hadrian's Wall wearing a speedo bathing suit and a Roman helmet. We reached him in Gloucester, England.

[Music]

Andy the hamster

CH: A lot of us are craving travel right now, but one Whitehorse resident named Andy is likely craving a long, quiet stay at home, or at least his family hopes he is. After vanishing earlier this week, Andy was discovered far from his usual residents, gallivanting in a Yukon recycling depot. He traveled there via cardboard box after slipping through a crack in his hamster cage. Fortunately, the reckless rodent lived to tell the tale or have his humans tell it. Ten year old Emily Toth and her mom, Melissa Croskery spoke with the CBC's Dave White yesterday. And as he found out, Andy's survival wasn't always a sure thing.

MELISSA CROSKERY: And is a very nocturnal animal, so we don't normally hear much about him during the day. So when Emily did discover that he wasn't in his new cage, there was definitely quite a bit of panic. Yeah. And we did quite a search around the house. And we were a little worried because of all the other pets we have in the house, two cats, two dogs, and then a gerbil and a hamster. And last night we were still fostering. They're all gone now. But we were fostering some puppies for YARN, Yukon Animal Rescue Network.

DAVE WHITE: I guess, with all these animals, Andy would be among the smaller of the creatures. And two cats and hamsters, sometimes that's not a good mix.

MELISSA CROSKERY: Yes. And one of our cats is older and he's pretty chill and we weren't too worried. But we do have a younger cat who spends, I would say, the majority of her day watching these critters through the cage. So we were definitely a little concerned.

DAVE WHITE: Do we know how Andy got mixed up in the recycling?

EMILY TOTH: So he likes to burrow in a lot of everything. So he somehow got his way into the recycling, burrowed into the box, and I guess he just fell asleep. And then we searched in the other two recycling boxes, but we didn't know he was in that one.

DAVE WHITE: So, okay, what went through your mind when you realize Andy was missing?

EMILY TOTH: I was really scared because I was really worried about the cat getting him.

DAVE WHITE: And when did you find out that he had been located? When did you find out?

EMILY TOTH: Last night, my mom woke me up and she's like, guess what? The hamster there was found. He was in the recycling box.

DAVE WHITE: So, I mean, you guys have checked out Andy's cage. You think you've got it all set up so that he's not going to get out anymore, right?

EMILY TOTH: Yeah. We're going to fix it and make sure that he can't get out and use something really strong.

DAVE WHITE: And if he does get out, what's the first place you're going to look?

EMILY TOTH: I'm going to look in the recycling box.

DAVE WHITE: [Chuckles] Very good.

CH: Emily Toth and Melissa Croskery is speaking with the CBC, Dave White, about their hamster, Andy's escape in a blue bin earlier this week. Fortunately, Andy is now home safe and sound and his humans have a story they'll be recycling for some time.

[Music]

Don Hahn

CH: Don Hahn earned the right to be stubborn. You can hear his tried and true techniques on albums by Frank Sinatra, Duke Ellington and Whitney Houston. So the Toronto born recording engineer knew his methods were sound, and for most of his career, he would not hear otherwise. Don Hahn died earlier this month. He was 81. He first perfected his craft working in radio in Montreal, emphasis on perfected. His high standards made him an in-demand engineer and eventually landed him a gig with A & R recording studios in New York. By then, Mr. Hahn's reputation as an incredibly skilled, incredibly stubborn technician had earned him the nickname "Napoleon." As his wife Diane told the Globe and Mail, "Donny wouldn't even let me sing in the shower." Well, his perfectionism may have tested relationships, but it never got in the way of the music. Like in 1968, when a group of musicians who called themselves 'The Band' came into Mr. Hahn studio to record their debut album. As always, Mr. Hahn set up battles between the musicians to isolate and record the highest quality sound. But guitarist Robbie Robertson insisted the group needed to see each other while they were recording, feedback be damned. Don Hahn eventually relented and in doing so, ushered in a brand new Americana sound.

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October 29, 2020 Episode Transcript

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