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The AIH Transcript for September 10, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I’m Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: He's not welcome in her Grand Old Party. A former governor of New Jersey says she finds it “mind-boggling” that any of her fellow Republicans can support President Donald Trump for re-election.

CH: Trial balloons. Ontario jury selection is set to resume, but in makeshift courtrooms because of the pandemic — and our guest worries that leaves potential jurors dangerously exposed.

CO: Driven out. As the president of Belarus continues to round up opposition leaders, we hear from a lawyer who is forced to flee — and thinks it may never be safe for him to go home.

CH: Last minute invite. After an initial snub, the Iroquois Nationals have finally been invited to join the 2022 World Games. We reach the 18-year-old player whose petition helped level the playing field.

CO: The art of living. He caught COVID in one of the world's worst hotspots. Now, a Canadian painter in New York has flipped his focus to honour that city's health care workers.

CH: And... all is not lost. When an 80-year-old disappeared on a hike in northern England, his family was in a tizzy, which continued even after he showed up at his own missing person press conference.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Thursday edition. Radio that thinks it was worth the gamble.

Part one: U.S. Election: Christine Todd Whitman, Belarus update, Healthcare heroes artist

U.S. Election: Christine Todd Whitman

Guest: Christine Todd Whitman

CH: Tonight, the fallout continues over Donald Trump's interviews with Bob Woodward. As we mentioned yesterday, the U.S. President spoke with the journalist for his new book, "Rage". In February, Mr. Trump told Mr. Woodward that COVID-19 was more deadly than the flu. And in March, he admitted he was playing down the virus in public to avoid panic. Today, reporters asked the president about his comments.

REPORTER: Why did you lie to the American people? And why should we trust what you have to say now?

DONALD TRUMP: Such a terrible question, and the phraseology. I didn't lie. What I said is we have to be calm. We can't be panicked. I knew that the tapes... these were a series of phone calls that we had — mostly phone calls. And Bob Woodward is somebody that I respect just from hearing the name for many, many years, not knowing too much about his work, not caring about his work. But I thought it would be interesting to talk to him for a period of, you know, calls. So we did that. I don't know if it's good or bad. I don't even know if the book is good or bad. But certainly, if he thought that was a bad statement, he would have reported it because he thinks that, you know, you don't want to have anybody that is going to suffer medically because of some fact.

CH: For Christine Todd Whitman, this is just the latest proof that Donald Trump should not be the President. Ms. Whitman was the head of the Environmental Protection Agency George W. Bush, and is the former governor of New Jersey. She's been a Republican for decades, and says she'll continue supporting GOP candidates. But she supported Hillary Clinton in 2016. And right now, she's supporting Joe Biden — and urging voters to do the same. We reached Christine Todd Whitman in Oldwick, New Jersey.

CO: Ms. Whitman, why do you think that it's your duty to persuade your fellow Republicans to vote for Joe Biden, and not the Republican candidate, Donald Trump?

CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN: Because I think the Republican candidate is totally unfit for the office. And he's done nothing to dissuade me that I've been wrong from the very beginning. I knew him when I was governor of New Jersey and had to deal with him when he had casinos in Atlantic City. And I got to know him then, and the kind of man he was, and the way he treated people, and stiffed local contractors and things. And I just never thought he had the capability, the understanding or really the desire to be a president of all the people. And what he has done recently, this Woodward book that's come out, it's just mind-boggling to me how any Republican can support him.

CO: Okay, reasons not to vote for Donald Trump, but why are you going to vote for Joe Biden? You could not vote at all, I suppose. Why support him?

CTW: Because I think Joe Biden is the man for the time. He's a decent man. He's a stable man, steady and strong. He's not going to get pushed around. He has a record of reaching across the aisle to solve problems, which is the only way you can really address the big, major issues that we face. And he's also shown that he is willing to put aside any kind of personal animosity to pick the best person he thinks for the job. When he picked Kamala Harris, that is not something Donald Trump would ever, ever have even marginally considered.

CO: I just wonder, though, the Republicans we have spoken with are concerned about Joe Biden. They think that some would agree with what you're saying. They also worry about who might be pulling the strings? That a recent person interviewed thinks that he might be a puppet for a more radical left agenda. Do you not share in you any concerns that other Republicans have about that?

CTW: No, I don't, because the Democrat Party has the same issues that the Republican Party used to have. We now become as defined Republican as defined by the president, just acolytes. But there are the extreme left, the centre and the conservative. Democrats as well. They are not one cohesive body. And Joe Biden has shown strength in the past. He's a patriot. He believes in the Constitution. And he's strong. He's not going to get pushed around by them. And, in fact, a lot of the far left are very unhappy with Kamala Harris because they don't think she's extreme enough.

CO: Many of the things you're citing as reasons why you can't support Donald Trump, besides your personal reasons, these are things known by other Republicans, especially those in Congress. They have had a front-row seat on this. Why do you think that so many Republican people in Congress continue to support Donald Trump?

CTW: I'm afraid, first of all, right now, they're too far in to back off. They couldn't do it without looking totally hypocritical, except that I think with the excerpts of this Woodward book that gives them cover to finally stand up and say, no, this is just wrong. I mean, for this president to say, oh, I knew it was serious, and it's really bad. And then to lie to the American people and say he did it because he didn't want to create panic, that's all he likes to do is create chaos and panic by dividing people and calling people names and encouraging this racism that we're seeing suddenly raise its ugly head in a very open way. We've always had racism, everybody has prejudices, we understand that. But it was never OK to say them. This president has encouraged that. I don't know whether he didn't believe it. It's just all been about him, and this might hurt my presidency. So I don't want to talk about it. I don't want people wearing masks because then they'll see that it's real. And yet he knew it. And we have over 1900-thousand people who have died. We have an economy that's in the tank because we can't recover from this. It's been a stutter start. There's been no steady leadership. And he very much bears the blame for that.

CO: But you'd think that Bob Woodward wasn't the first person who would have heard Donald Trump say these kinds of remarks. That he understood it to be far more serious, but he was going to downplay it. That other Republicans would have known that he was saying that. We certainly know that former people in the White House, large number of them, have said that they feel he's unfit for office. What they have seen shows that he has no moral compass. They certainly would have heard of, if not heard him say directly, what he thought of vets being losers and suckers. They knew all these things, right? They didn't hear about this the first time the past couple of weeks. So why, again, going back to those Republicans in Congress, why don't they step up and say what you're saying?

CTW: Beats me. I think it's about power. Donald Trump's base is extraordinarily loyal. These are the most extreme of the party. I mean, they've taken it over. And they are 100 per cent loyal to Donald Trump. And they will show up at the polls and vote no matter what the circumstances. And these other Republicans just want to get reelected. It's hard for me to explain how decent people can continue to look the other way as this man undermines our Constitution, our confidence in the rule of law and in the government institutions, blowing away every norm. I mean, I understand why his supporters, and there were many now who are going to switch in this next election, but why they supported him in the first place because Congress was dysfunctional. It still is. They haven't passed the coronavirus relief bill, and people are desperate for it. So this is why people are angry. And that's why they'll go to the polls. They wanted somebody who was going to disrupt it. But they have someone now who is totally incapable of performing this job and is a danger to our country, frankly.

CO: But you're not in office anymore, are you?

CTW: No.

CO: So is it not easier for you to say all these things because you haven't got as much to lose as some of these other members of Congress?

CTW: Sure, sure. But, you know, when I was in the Bush administration, and there came a time when I just could not agree with the policy, I stepped out. I mean, you can do this. You can do it when you're in office. You can stand up if you care about your own centre, if you care about who you are, if you care about being true to yourself and to your oath of office to protect the country, then you do what's right.

CO: You're the chairperson of this group, Republicans and Independents for Biden, it's funded by the Lincoln Project. Do you think it's possible the Republican Party can become the party of Lincoln again?

CTW: Well, I hope so. And the reason I have not changed my registration is because what we're seeing today is defined as the Republican Party is not the party in which I grew up. I'm an Eisenhower Republican, Reagan, Bushes. All of those were decent men who cared about the country more than anything else and had some central principles. The fact that the Republican Party at their convention this year didn't even adopt a platform tells you really this is a cult of personality now. It's whatever Donald Trump says, that's where the party stands. That's not how I grew up. There were central core principles that defined the parties and defined the differences and ways of interpreting them that were slightly different within the party. So you could be pro-life and pro-choice and still be a Republican. You can't do that now. It's all one way or the other.

CO: The top Republican in New Jersey has said that you don't represent the values of the party anymore. And has offered to pay the postage for you to send in the form to change your party designation. [both chuckling] Might you take him up on that at some point?

CTW: No, I have no intention of doing that. You know, what do you expect of these people who have drank the Kool-Aid? And as I said before, they have been so supportive of the president for so long, that's pretty hard to suddenly switch gear.

CO: Do you think it's the reason why he has the support is because so many people agree with what he says?

CTW: I think so many people were looking for someone to just kick the system upside down because it was not working for them. A lot of them are having buyer's remorse now, but it's a question of how many? Yes, there are people who like the fact that he's a racist, who like the fact that he goes out and makes outrageous statements that he is not, quote-unquote, the norm because they hate what they see as the well, the deep state, they call it. And so they have a reason they're not all crazy people or anything. These are people that have been struggling all their lives, and they feel government is kind of against them.

CO: We will leave it there. And, of course, we will be watching.

CTW: All right.

CO: Ms. Whitman, I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

CTW: Thank you. Pleasure. Bye.

CH: That was former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman in Oldwick, New Jersey.

[Music: Indie rock]

Belarus update

Guest: Amir Al Haidar

CH: Maria Kolesnikova says Belarusian security forces drove her to the border — and told her that she could either leave alive, or she could leave in pieces. The prominent opposition politician chose to tear up her passport instead. But the choices are different for those outside the spotlight. Amir Al Haidar is a Belarusian lawyer. He and His wife were arrested and terrorized when the protests against President Alexander Lukashenko's regime began last month. They have since left the country. Amir Al Haidar has asked us not to say where we've reached him, beyond the fact that it's in the European Union.

CO: Amir, first of all, do you feel safe where you are? We're not going to say where it is, but do you feel that you are secure there?

AMIR AL HAIDAR: Yes, absolutely.

CO: Your final days in Belarus, how frightening was that for you and your wife?

AAH: The final days were frightening a little bit, because we heard and we saw information on the telegram channels and some friends of ours that the investigation committee of Belarus, they started a criminal case against people who went public. They have a risk of being charged and being prosecuted because of them complaining and because of their position.

CO: And I know that you from an article that your wife, Anastasia, she wrote a description of the horrific experience that you both had when you were just picked up. You were driving in a car, and just forced out and arrested with dozens of other people, women and men separated, and both of you tortured. And so that was in August. And yet, since then, we have heard of so many others like yourself who have been saying and showing how they have been tortured and beaten. How concerned are you for the people you left behind?

AAH: I've said very much about people who are there. But from these seven thousand or even more people who were detained, beaten and tortured during these protests, not few of them, but I would say only a minority of them have complained. And even fewer of them have expressed in social networks or gave interviews to local or overseas journalists. Very few of them do this because they are afraid and they're scared of having their revenge from the government.

CO: What was it like? What was the worst of it for you?

AAH: For me, the worst part was the part when we were we were basically thrown out of the police busses. And during five hours, we were staying on our knees with hands down in the yards, in the yards of this prison. And we heard people beaten. So it was like hell. People were beaten so hard, so badly, so many shots. And I never believed one man could stand so many shots.

CO: Blows, you mean? Yes, not bullets?

AAH: Yeah, blows and punches. So I was very scared, and I was preparing to be next. And I think each one of us who were at this yard. We were preparing ourselves to be next to be beaten. And I think some people were beaten to death. Some people were beaten that badly that they became incapable. So they lost some functions. They lost their health. So it was very scary.

CO: You are a lawyer, but you're not a human rights lawyer. You're not an activist in any way. You're actually a lawyer for the tech industry and for finance. What is it that made you and your wife become part of something that is so threatening to you?

AAH: For me, I would say this is something which doesn't any more lay on the political spectrum. This is more like human rights and personal dignity. This is about human rights, personal dignity and about being a man or being a citizen. Because, first of all, they put almost all alternative candidates into jail. Second, they falsificated the elections. And thirdly, they shoot, they beat, they torture peaceful people. So for me, it was no alternative for those things rather than just carefully go on the streets, try to walk. We were just walking with my wife, we were not very active, I would say. But for us, it was very important that we call ourselves man, we call ourselves citizen. We are not afraid, and we want to protect our votes. Because we know nobody really votes for him, for the Lukashenko. So this is, for us, just a question of our human position and dignity.

CO: Just finally, Amir, just what would it take for you to feel that you could actually return to Belarus?

AAH: For me, I think if nothing changes, if the president doesn't resign, I'm struggling, you know, I'm struggling to imagine how could a practice the law in this country? I'm not sure I can practice the law in the country where there is no law at the moment. So this is why my answer would be I am very I hope very much. And I'm looking forward to, you know, to see him resign or to see him leaving the country. And to see some big changes happening.

CO: But if you could not go back, if that doesn't happen, if somehow because he might have a lot of help from the Kremlin, we'll see next week when he has a meeting with Vladimir Putin, if he stays in power, do you think you could go back?

AAH: I mean, technically, we can go back. But, first of all, it will be risky. And secondly, you know, I'm not sure we will be willing to live in the country with the violence, with the absence of law, with all these things happening. And that is why, I don't know, I would probably live elsewhere. Not in our home country if he stays.

CO: Amir, I am sorry that all this has happened to you and your wife. I do appreciate that you would speak with us tonight. Thank you.

AAH: Thank you very much, Carol. Thank you.

CO: Goodnight.

AAH: Goodnight.

CH: Amir Al Haidar is a Belarusian lawyer. We reached him outside the country.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Healthcare heroes artist

Guest: Tim Okamura

CH: Not long ago, New York City was a global epicentre of the coronavirus epidemic. Hundreds of people were dying each day. And many more were infected. Tim Okamura was one of them. He's an artist who lives there. And after recovering from COVID-19, he decided he wanted to do something to showcase the challenging work of the nurses and doctors treating coronavirus patients. He's now painting a series of portraits called Health Care Heroes. We reached Mr. Okamura in New York City.

CO: Tim, first of all, have you completely recovered?

TIM OKAMURA: Yeah, I think I've completely recovered physically. Some days I wonder if there's still some mental after-effects. I know that when I was getting over COVID that I certainly felt brain fog and sort of lack of ability to focus. And it caused some mood swings and things like that. But there's so many surrounding circumstances. It's hard to pinpoint whether that's like a physical thing or just part of the whole experience and everything surrounding it, so.

CO: Yeah, and this was in March that you got sick, right?

TO: Yeah.

CO: Just tell us about that time of life for you? Because you're in New York City. So you're surrounded by a strong awareness, I'm sure, of the pandemic.

TO: Yeah, exactly. Well, I had been traveling actually right at the very beginning of March. And, you know, in the beginning, I think it's, like, everybody's reaction is to, like, maybe not take it as seriously as you should. [chuckle]

CO: You shared that skepticism, then did you?

TO: I did. And I think because there's so much fear, I think, that comes along with that. The skepticism kind of helps mitigate that a little bit. Now, you know, it just so happens my cousin was on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, so he ended up getting COVID. So I knew that it was real. But even then, I still didn't want to accept that it was going to, you know, hit New York as hard as it did.

CO: And then you got sick.

TO: I got sick. And even when I got sick, I thought it was allergies. I had sniffles and I had a cough. And I just couldn't get rid of this cough for a few days. I also lost my sense of smell, partially my sense of taste. But I had probably about six weeks of chronic fatigue syndrome after the first two weeks of being more sick with, like, you know, the different symptoms. Then during that six weeks of chronic fatigue, it almost feels like, you know, for anybody who's ever had a hangover, [laughing] it's almost like I feel like I had a hangover for like six weeks.

CO: [laughing] I've heard many different descriptions of what it’s like, but hangover is not one of them.

TO: Yeah. You know, along with that came like issues with focusing, some of the brain fog stuff and then, you know, depression and, you know, my cousin ended up passing away --

CO: Of COVID? He died of complications from COVID?

TO: That's correct, yes.

CO: I’m sorry.

TO: Yeah, he passed away in Tokyo from COVID.

CO: But I understand you live across from the hospital in New York City. And so what did you see there every day?

TO: Well, you know, so during quarantine, started to see, like, more and more ambulances coming. And you seeing nurses and doctors going in and out, looking fatigued. And then the first refrigerator truck was parked right outside my window. And that was a sign that their morgue in the hospital had already filled up. And so there was a weekend where they just started wheeling bodies out, and they filled that first truck immediately.

CO: You could actually see the bodies in the truck?

TO: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, a lot of the imagery that ended up in your news sites, a lot of those photos were taken at the hospital that live across the street from. So that was another thing is we had paparazzi started to build up. It was very morbid and very, at the same time, a little bit of a circus-like atmosphere with all the photographers.

CO: Good heavens!

TO: So it's really a hard thing to wrap your head around.

CO: Now, you are an artist. You have painted very famous subjects, including Toni Morrison.

TO: Yes.

CO: What influence did this experience have on your work?

TO: You know, watching all this go on, the documentarian side of me kind of kicked in, started thinking that I should try to do some portraits of some of the basically the healthcare heroes that were really stretched to the breaking point. So I ended up getting in touch with them, and I went to NYU Langone and actually went into the hospital and had a great meeting with a whole bunch of COVID unit nurses and got a chance to speak to them about their experiences and super emotional stuff. And I had them pose for me, and I'm still working on pinnings from that hospital. And with the intention that, you know, for some of the larger, like group portraits, 50 per cent of proceeds will go to charity of the medical workers choice. And then the smaller portraits that I'm doing with the nurses, I'm actually giving them as gifts just to recognize their efforts.

CO: And you chose to paint them in their personal protection equipment, with the masks on and the whole kit. What do you want to say, because obviously, you know, they have lovely faces you could have painted, why did you choose to paint them in that context?

TO: I wanted to depict the details of what speaks to their experience and in some cases, their ordeal. And also, like, as you know, with the PPE here in America became politicized. And I think there's so much about those details that resonates on a deeper level, just horrific the experience was on some levels that they had to worry about their own personal safety on top of trying to care for others. Again, so many emotional stories of grief and loss. And I think that them in their work attire, you know, sort of speaks to that experience. And that’s why I wanted to have that.

CO: Being in the context, you could have painted them looking exhausted. But there's a different look to them, including one you have that’s modeled on Rosie the Riveter, and wearing a mask.

TO: yeah, yeah.

CO: So what is it you want to say with these paintings?

TO: Well, if you talk to these workers, they're so humble. Of course, they say they're just doing their job. But I did want to highlight some of the heroism that's just inherent in what they were doing. I mean, and I can only say this, you know, just from hearing their stories, but just stretched to the limit physically, emotionally. So I wanted to do like a nurse version of Rosie the Riveter to really, you know, to really say that they got the job done, you know, and they survived. And I always try to bring a little bit of a positive spin, I think, to things. I want to highlight that aspect. There are a few paintings that are coming up that actually do touch on the exhaustion a little bit more. But I think some of the early images that I've been doing have been, you know, on the courageous side and on the side of emanating some strength and just stoicism.

CO: This is, of course, a moment in time as deeply as we are feeling and experiencing it. We believe it will pass. And your paintings will live on as works of art. So when people see these years from now, what do you think it will tell them about this time?

TO: In some ways, I mean, this time has ended up being so complex because we also had, you know, a major social justice movement collide with it. And so they're kind of feeding off each other. You know, I hope that I'm able to capture a little bit of that, and the strength and the determination. Maybe you're not spelling it out in the painting, but hopefully just even looking at somebody's eyes, you can sense some of the sorrow as well, how taxing this was for everybody. But certainly for the healthcare heroes.

CO: Tim, I'm glad that you have recovered from your own bout of COVID-19. And I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

TO: Thank you so much. Thanks for giving me the time.

CO: Bye.

TO: Bye-bye.

CH: Tim Okamura is an artist painting a series of portraits called Health Care Heroes. Mr. Okamura is in New York City.

Part two: Jury trials, Iroquois Nationals lacrosse update

Jury trials

Guest: Mark Farrant

CH: In Toronto, the Metro Convention Centre is home to the auto show, the bridal show, and — as its name suggests — conventions. But now it will be the home of jury selection. The Ontario Superior Court is moving to the massive building to recruit jurors for upcoming trials — which are starting up again after the pandemic shutdown. Meanwhile, in Alberta, some Calgary trials will be held on the grounds of the Calgary Stampede. But advocates are concerned about whether these massive, out-of-court venues will give jurors the safety and security they need. Mark Farrant is founder of the Canadian Juries Commission. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Farrant, as you know, trials and jury selection has to happen somewhere. So what's your issue with cases being heard in places like Toronto's Metro Convention Centre?

MARK FARRANT: Well, one of the concerns, obviously, is for jurors' health and safety. And like other aspects of our society, we've made an enormous shift in provisions to ensure social distancing and the like. But jurors have commented about their own personal security for decades in existing courtrooms. And the lack of actual security and privacy leaving the courthouse or between breaks, and I'm extremely concerned about the provisions for their physical security in large venues like convention centres and the like.

CO: Well, it does tell us some of the things, you know, you've heard about what kinds of security issues that jurors of potential jurors have?

MF: Jurors once they've been in and trial, certainly ones that have had an organized crime element to it or criminal activity, they've mentioned being followed to the parking lot and being followed to public transit and being followed through the courtroom, or sorry, the courthouse itself in recess or after they've been excused for the day. And I've heard cases of this across the country, in small towns and in big cities.

CO: But I guess there's as far as safety and security a tradeoff, I guess, are being asked to consider, which is that the larger venues allow for the physical distancing for them to be able to put procedures in place that will protect them, possibly, hopefully, from COVID-19. But at same time, you're saying that there's other security issues. So how do you trade those off, how do you balance those two concerns?

MF: Jurors have to be given the same provisions that the judiciary enjoy and the crown and counsel with other actors within the court. So we need to provide jurors with access to the same secured parking facilities and the same apparatus that the judge enjoys, and other actors in the courtroom. So all court operations have to be stepped up to ensure the safety of the public and the safety of the jury. So we have to take that into consideration and ensure that there is a mechanism in place that provides that extra layer of protection and privacy.

CO: And are you hearing from the government as to whether or not it's going to put anything like that in place for jurors as they meet in places like the Calgary Stampede Grounds or the Metro Convention Centre?

MF: I've heard differing perspectives on it across the country. So I've heard sirens from some provinces who have not responded at all to our requests. I've understood that in Ontario, the provincial police and municipal police forces may be used, as well as existing court constables and the like to provide security. But we haven't seen anything documented and we haven't seen anything on paper in terms of how it's going to be administered.

CO: What are you hearing from prospective jurors? Are they saying, are they telling you what their concerns are? Are any of them saying they plan not to show up?

MF: I heard from Canadians every day, expressing concern for a jury summons. They're concerned about their jobs. They're concerned about their employers respecting the summons. And working in environments where, you know, the workplace may be just hanging on because of a drop in business. They're concerned about their ability to afford jury duty because jury pay has not kept pace with the modern world. In many provinces, jury pay is well below minimum wage. And it's a financial barrier for individuals to accept the summons because for some, they can't afford to do it.

CO: Well, it's not a lot of pay in any circumstances, but would you think that they should be getting more because of the pandemic? Do you think that that should be something that's part of the compensation?

MF: Well, we've been raising these concerns for years, and it was one of the the House of Commons Justice Committee's recommendations two years ago that jury pay be increased, prior to the pandemic. So we have asked that jury duty be made an essential service, just like any other frontline work at this time, so that resources can be channeled to the provinces and territories to increase jury pay if necessary. But it has to be raised to be a catalyst for participation. And if we're talking about changing the face of Juries and improving diversity and representation on juries, simply raising the jury duty pay to 120 dollars per day, which was the recommendation from two years ago, means that the reflection of the jury will change by bringing in voices that were shut out due to it being a financial barrier.

CO: We know that there are reasons for exemption, that if you are called to jury duty, you can say various reasons why you can't serve. If people are of a certain age. Or they feel vulnerable. If their health makes him more susceptible to COVID-19. Are these going to be acceptable reasons to not serve on juries?

MF: Every Canadian has their right when they are called to serve in that paneling stage to raise a valid concern for being excused. And certainly, there will be individuals, I've heard from some, who've said I'm terrified. I have an elderly family member who I pay to look after out of pocket. I'm concerned about bringing home the virus. And I'm concerned about their well-being. So we're going to hear more and more of these types of conversations happening in our courthouses. That's why we have to make these sound investments in jury duty across the country, in every province and territory equally to invest in our justice system.

CO: Okay, we'll leave it there. Mr. Farrant, thank you.

MF: Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

CH: Mark Farrant is founder of the Canadian Juries Commission. We reached him in Toronto.

[Music: Jazz]

Missing hiker

CH: Harry Harvey saw the helicopters, and the rescue teams. And the 80-year-old wondered who they were all looking for. Until he arrived at his own missing person press conference. Mr. Harvey was hiking through the Yorkshire Dales, in Northern England on the weekend, when he got separated from his hiking partner. He wasn't worried. He had his gear, and he knew what he was doing. In fact, his only real concern was how he was going to get a ride home when he finally made it out — since he only had about 20 British pounds in his pocket. Meanwhile, his family was panicking. A rescue team was deployed. And on Tuesday, after Harry Harvey had been missing for three days, the family called a news conference at a pub near the Yorkshire Dales. Which is when Mr. Harvey himself showed up. Or at least, he made it to a nearby road — where a wildlife photographer saw him, and called the rescue team. Here he is talking with ITV's Tom Barton on Tuesday, just after he was reunited with his family at the pub. He is extremely calm about all the attention — although possibly a little annoyed.

TOM BARTON: How would you sum up the last three days that you've had out on your own?

HARRY HARVEY: Well, in hindsight, I didn't want all of this. I had three really good, welcoming nights where I was on my own. And I had all the kit I needed. The only thing I was getting a bit short of was I've got a hell of an appetite. And when I get hungry, I've got to have something to eat or I cannot go anywhere.

NAOMI HARVEY: It’s been an absolute and total nightmare. He’s had a blast. We’ve had a nightmare.

TB: You’re pleased to have him back then?

NH: Oh yes!

PHIL HARVEY: He’s grounded.

NH: Oh, he’s grounded.

PH: You’re not going anywhere now.

HH: I’ve just bought some new boots.

PH: Well then, use them on the bowling green. I’ll buy you a bowling ball.

HH: No thank you.

PH: All right.

HH: It’s an old man's game.

CH: That was 80-year-old Harry Harvey and his son Phil and daughter-in-law Naomi. Mr. Harvey's family has since said that those new boots are up on Ebay.

CO: Aidan, what does it mean for you personally to learn that the Iroquois Nationals lacrosse team has finally been invited to the World Games?

AIDAN FEARN: Wow. Yeah, first, to me, really, like, lacrosse is more than just a sport, right? It's a way of life. You know, it's a game we play to unite people and bring healing to people who watch it and also play it. So, you know, I'm really looking forward to representing next summer The Iroquois Nationals in Ireland for the year U20 World Games. And then if successful there, you know, hopefully given the opportunity to wear the Iroquois jersey in Alabama. You know, words can't really describe how it would feel, though, you know, it'd be a dream come true. You know, I grew up watching all the Iroquois Nationals players like, you know, guys like Lyle Thompson, Jermey Thompson, Cody Jameson, you know, guys like that. And to be around that much talent and, you know, guys with so much knowledge, you know, it'd be a truly humbling experience.

CO: We covered this story this summer when the Iroquois Nationals were told by World Lacrosse and the World Games that they would not be able to compete in 2022. So what changed?

AF: You know, the international lacrosse community really took action to support the Iroquois inclusion in the World Games. So, you know, it started with 50,000 people who signed the petition, and also, people wrote letters of support. And a lot of people went public on social media. You know, then Ireland Lacrosse, they stood in solidarity to create a path for the Iroquois. And then, you know what? The World Lacrosse, they listened. And they advocated to reverse the decision. So, you know, it's just an example of how connected the lacrosse community is, how each person can unite and bring change.

CO: That petition that you launched asking eight countries to say that they wouldn't compete unless the Iroquois team could play, Ireland was the one that chose to do that. And people are saying that that was really the deciding factor was a lot of pressure. How did you feel when you learned that Ireland had made that gesture?

AF: Grateful. And, you know what? Just happy. It made me want to wear green for the next week.

CO: [bright laughter] But you also asked Canada, which is also one of the eight teams. What did you think Canada should have done in solidarity?

AF: You know, Canada and the U.S. also they did offer a lot of support to the Iroquois. And, you know, I know early on, I'll mention a player, a Canadian player, Curtis Dixion. I know he mentioned that he wouldn't play if the Iroquois weren't included. And, you know, I really did appreciate that kind of bold statement, especially early on in the fight for advocacy. Canada and U.S., you know, the top two teams in the world, you know, they deserve to be where they are. And, you know, I'm happy with the support they showed.

CO: You know, it's interesting that there's also a supreme irony that it is an Indigenous sport, isn't? It's a game that originates with First Nations, and the Haudenosaunee Confederacy of which the Iroquois are a part of, that's what the team is representing. So what do you make of the fact that this very sport that all these countries are part of would not initially include the Iroquois?

AF: You know what? I think just overall, the Iroquois Nationals, you know, they should be able to compete as a sovereign nation. You know, to go down to the original problem, like, why they weren't originally allowed. You know, I couldn't really tell you why the Iroquois eligibility was originally overlooked, but I do think that the international lacrosse community really came through in standing up for doing the right thing for them to be included, you know, in our culture, it's the creator's game. And, you know, we don't really play it for the sake of playing. It's way more than that.

CO: But I think you nailed it as to what was possibly the motivation for excluding the Iroquois team is that they didn't, according to Olympic rules, didn't regard that the Iroquois as being a sovereign nation. What do you make of that?

AF: I'm not really sure what to make of that, because you know what? I don't see how they wouldn't make the eligibility there. But you know what? There's a lot more work to be done, a lot more work for World Lacrosse, the Olympic Committee, as well as the Iroquois Nationals, to ensure that they can be included as either a sovereign nation or approved as an exception like what was given to other nations in the past, right? So moving forward, it’d be good to see everyone working together as one in support for the Iroquois Nationals inclusion in the Olympics.

CO: one of the reasons Ireland's team gave for supporting is that they felt [chuckling],I think, a bit embarrassed by the fact that the Iroquois Nationals lacrosse team places third, and they placed way down in the rankings. So it was like, how can we possibly exclude this team? [laughing]

AF: And that's it right there, too. You know, what? It just so happens, it's unfortunate that Ireland was the ninth-ranked team, which brought them up to eighth with the exclusion of the Iroquois Nationals. So, again, respects to Ireland and everyone on that board and that committee. But, yeah, it's kind of shocking, right? Like, we'll look at another sport, let's say, like, let's say, USA in hockey if they were excluded from a hockey world championship, or Sweden, or someone over that matter, you know, heads would turn. And I think it's the same case here. And people definitely showed that they weren't a fan of that.

CO: What do you think your chances are of being in the lineup, of actually playing?

AF: [warm chuckling] For Alabama? I mean, there's a lot of work to be done, right? And just like every other world team, you know, it's only the best of the best. So, again, it would be a dream come true. But, you know, the work's gotta be put in to make it that far, so.

CO: And what does it mean to you? What do you love about this sport?

AF: At this point in my life, it's just a part of my identity. And it's kind of who I am. But, you know, playing lacrosse for over eight years now, since I was just a young guy, It's grown to be more than just a game. It's, you know, I play for healing. I play for medicine. Like, I play for those who can’t. And, to me, it's just that. It's just a lifestyle. And I cannot express how much this sport has done for me and the opportunities it has provided. So you know what? To that, I just say that it's really everything to me. And, you know, the love for the game is just beyond words.

CO: Aidan, I hope to see you in that lineup in Birmingham. And thank you for telling us this today. Thank you.

AF: No worries. Thanks for having me.

CO: Bye.

AF: Bye-bye.

CH: Aidan Fearn is an 18-year-old Iroquois Nationals player from Glooscap First Nation in Nova Scotia. We reached him in Aurora, Ontario. For more on this story, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: “Kool & The Gang” by Kool & The Gang/Funk]

Ronald Bell obit

CH: This is Kool and the Gang, with the first song from their first album in 1969. And this is the same band about four years later.

[Music: Funk]

CH: OK. And now, here's one of their hits from the ‘80s.

[Music: “Fresh” by Kool & The Gang/Funk]

CH: And, of course, there is — and always will be — this.

[Music: Electronica]

Part three: Inuit relocation plaque, P.E.I mason jar shortage

Calgary mother

CH: Maya Shedrick was losing sleep over sending her kids back to school. The Alberta mother told us that in an interview last week. Every hour, she felt like the situation was changing. And for some parents in the province, this week hasn't brought much comfort. Single cases have been reported at more than a dozen schools in Alberta now. And at a couple of schools, there are at least two cases. Melissa Archbold and Tara Orgill's kids go to Bowness High School in Calgary, where one person has tested positive. They spoke with the CBC this morning. Here's some of what Ms. Orgill said.

TARA ORGIL: Basically, I got a call on Saturday from 8-1-1, and they told me that my child would have to self isolate along with the rest of my family. So we've all been on quarantine, self-isolation since Saturday.

DAVID GRAY: Are you quarantined, well, obviously together in the house. But it is your son in a separate area of the house? Are you all mingling? How's that working?

TO: Well, because, like, I just live on the main floor, so my son actually shares a room with another of, like, my children. So he shares a room with a sibling. And so you can’t really self isolate from each other. You know, it's kind of difficult.

DG: Melissa, I haven't forgotten you. [both laugh] Tell me, what's the situation in your home?

MELISSA ARCHBOLD: I got a similar call on Saturday. A little bit different instructions. I have two kids that go to Bowness High. One's in grade 10, and one's in grade 12. And I was told that my daughter in grade 10 has to isolate herself immediately, and be confined to her bedroom and have her own bathroom. And that the rest of us were free to go out as we like, including my son. So I found that extremely confusing and frustrating.

DG: Yeah. Sorry, This was an AHS official telling you this or the school?

MA: Yeah, Healthlink gave us a call on Saturday.

DG: Oh, OK. So, Melissa, if I've got this right. Melissa, your family doesn't have to quarantine because your daughter has her own room, and access to a bathroom?

MA: Yup!

DG: But, Tara, because your whole family has to quarantine at home, is that right?

TO: That's correct, yep.

DG: Melissa, tell me how your daughter felt about being isolated? How is she doing through all this?

MA: She's pretty upset. Starting a new school, barely getting around for a whole week and then being sent home when she has zero symptoms. And she's supposed to be confined to her bedroom, and she still has no symptoms. And I actually said to the Healthlink nurse, that called, I said, well if she tests negative, is it OK if she goes to school then? And they said, nope, it doesn't matter if she tests negative, she has to stay home the full 14 days. So it's frustrating. Today is her birthday. So she'll be spending it in isolation. [chuckling]

DG: Awwee!

MA: It's really frustrating, like I say. And the fact that I'm going to be driving my son to school here in the next 40 minutes or so, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Because, I mean, there's just no end to it. If there's one student in his class that is sick, then he'll be home. And then if there's another student sick, she could be back home again.

CH: That was Melissa Archbold and Tara Orgill speaking with David Gray on the CBC's "Eyeopener" today.

Inuit relocation plaque

Guest: David Serkoak

CH: Seventy years ago, the Canadian government forced the Ahiarmiut people to move. They were living in what is now Nunavut, west of Hudson Bay. And without consultation, or any warning at all, they were loaded onto airplanes and taken to a new location. Over the next 10 years, the government relocated the Ahiarmiut again and again. People died from starvation and sickness, and the community was splintered. Last year, the Canadian government finally apologized and agreed on a settlement. And just this month, a plaque explaining this history was erected in Arviat, Nunavut. David Serkoak worked for years to get the apology and settlement. He watched the plaque go up over video from his home in Ottawa, which is where we reached him.

CO: David, what does it mean for you to see this plaque installed finally?

DAVID SERKOAK: It brings back a lot of emotions. It was put up in the exact place where we want to have put up. One plaque weighs 90 pounds. So now it has a permanent location. All the things that I heard and recorded from the elders.

CO: I think people need to think people need to know the story that the plaque tells, which is really important. What does the plaque tell people about that location and what happened to your people?

DS: Right from the beginning, I really want to do the wording myself, because all the things that I documented from the elders were firsthand information, where they witnessed everything firsthand. So looking back at the first relocation from an Annandale to Knowlton Lake, around ‘49, the Canadian government put up a signal station, or the armed forces, etc, put up a signal station and a Annadale Lake. And before they know it, they were asked to go to that plane. Officers came, get out of their tent. Another signal was given to bulldoze all their tents and bury them in front of their eyes. And a third order, I believe, was to single everyone to the plane that was waiting for the Ahiarmiut to take them to Knowlton Lake, which sits pretty close to Manitoba border. And that was that. And they were dropped at the big island at northern part of Knowlton Lake. According to my elders, four people died of probably by illness, starvation, those kind of related deaths. And soon, they realized they have to go back to Annandale Lake, it’s their rightful place. And they start walking back to their homeland. And my elders told me that roughly took them about three months, I think, at the most. And 1957 comes along, in the spring of May I believe, they were once again subject to another forced move. And this time, to almost different direction towards North Henik Lake and the Hudson Bay.

CO: All right, David, I know that you were just a boy when that second relocation happened. What can you remember of that experience?

DS: I remember when we landed, all the families have new tents. I remember our tent. The nearest place to get any kind of store-bought food is very far. It would take three days to that little Hudson Bay Post in Padlei. Then they have to carry everything back. Things were difficult. We all make an exodus because there was a starvation taking place. People were dying of cold exposure. That we all have to make an exodus towards that little post by foot. It was like a life and death situation. So it was pretty hard on our parents. So after a short stay in that little Hudson Bay post in Padlei, then soon an RCMP aircraft came to take us all to Eskimo Point. So I remember that day very well.

CO: David, these are extraordinary stories you're telling of that time and what happened. And how you survived, though so many didn't.

DS: Yeah, All those things were happening so fast. And her officials and RCMP were doing the investigation of what happened to the Ahiarmiut, all these deaths and stuff. And we were placed around RCMP property, and with instructions not to mix with other Inuit from Eskimo Point until officials say it's OK. There were even some guards to keep everyone out or keep us in. So, those kind of things were happening. And I remember that my uncle, I don't know sometimes how he got through the guard, he would bring me a little box of cookies every so often. I remember that very well. And I remember there was a big drum dance, and my father was drum dancing. And all of the sudden, I think it was an off-duty policemen came rushing in and grabbed my father and throw him towards the women. And I know he was hurt, but he didn't say anything. Nobody's saying anything. The policeman also grabbed the drum, and breaking it. Everyone went home.

CO: There's so many stories I want to hear from you, but I just want to ask you, what do you want the rest of Canada to take away from this story, from the story that you put in on the plaques, and the story you're telling me now? What do you want us to understand?

DS: I always want to educate people, to community, to children, to non-Inuit Canada. And many times in the past, stories about us were always via researchers, filmmakers. I mean, those kind of things that are from south. So I want this to be all by the Ahiarmiut, information by the Ahiarmiut, written by Ahiarmiut. The wording I put together for the plaque, the words are exactly from the Ahiarmiut elders. So this plaque with summary of all these horrible things that we experienced. Now, it's in public display for people, younger generations and other non-Inuit. So they will know more about what happened. So that was one of my goals. And also, to acknowledge and honour the strong people before us, the strong Ahiarmiut.

CO: And I think you have accomplished that, David. And I really appreciate you sharing the story with us today. Thank you.

DS: Thank you.

CO: Take care.

DS: OK, bye.

CH: David Serkoak was behind the effort to erect a plaque in Arviat, Nunavut, explaining the forced relocation of the Ahiarmiut. We reached Mr. Serkoak in Ottawa.

[Music: Uke!]

Diana Rigg obit

CH: It's an understatement to say that the veteran British actor Diana Rigg had range. Because, man, did she ever. Her career took her from stage to small screen to big screen and back again, many times over. And while she worked hard to avoid being defined by any one type, she did seem to enjoy embodying a certain kind of character. And over the decades, her audience enjoyed it too. Diana Rigg died today. She was 82 years old. Ms. Rigg became an international icon playing Emma Peel on the 1960s British series "The Avengers". A woman you did not want to mess with.

SPEAKER ONE: Give me the gun.

SPEAKER TWO: Back up.

SPEAKER ONE: Give me that gun.

[Music: There’s been a slow bongo drum growing below the narration and suddenly, a horn kicks in]

CH: Just give her the gun! And more recently, she was introduced to a gigantic new audience — as another woman you really wouldn't want to mess with.

OLENNA TYRELL: I did unspeakable things to protect my family, or watch them being done on my orders. I never lost a night's sleep over them. They were necessary. And whatever I imagine necessary for the safety of House Tyrell, I did. But your sister has done things I was incapable of imagining. That was my prize mistake, a failure of imagination.

CH: Diana Rigg in her chilling role as Lady Olenna Tyrell on "Game of Thrones". Her daughter, the actor Rachael Stirling, said Diane Rigg was diagnosed with cancer this spring. Ms. Stirling said her mother, quote, "spent her last months joyfully reflecting on her extraordinary life, full of love, laughter, and a deep pride in her profession. I will miss her beyond words." Unquote.

[Folksy guitar]

P.E.I mason jar shortage

Guest: Valerie Paton

CH: At first it was toilet paper. Then it was flour and yeast. And now on Prince Edward Island, there is a shortage of mason jars. CBC News on the island reports that Canadian Tire, Home Depot, and local wholesalers are all sold out of the jars. That leaves Valerie Paton with an uncanny sense that she can't can. She has been searching for jars for weeks. We reached Ms. Paton at her home in Charlottetown.

CO: Valerie, at what point did you realize you needed jars and could not find them?

VALERIE PATON: So I guess about four weeks ago, when I usually go looking at my stock of jars for making, I usually make spiced crab apple jelly every year. I knew I would need more jars this year, and went looking for my leftovers from last year. And thought, oh, I better go look for some jars. And then, you know, within 24 hours or a few hours of that, started making phone calls. I went around to stores. And I knew I was in trouble. [CO laughing] So, you know, a few weeks before I needed the jars. I actually did think about it in advance. That was good.

CO: But you found out, well, normally, this is canning season, the stores are stocked with mason jars. You go, you get a bunch of them, and you start your canning. So what was going on this year?

VP: I think that jars are the new toilet paper. So people were hoarding toilet paper, and now I don't know, I don't think they're hoarding jars. It's something to do with the supply chain. And I don't know what the explanation is. I'd be fascinated if you can tell me. [CO cuckles] But it definitely is a problem here. No question. I don't know about the rest of Canada. I'm just an ordinary newbie backyard gardener who decided in COVID that, you know, when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. So I’m making vegetable things. [laughing]

CO: I know for myself, I had a hard time finding jars, especially those much-coveted wide mouth masons.

VP: Oh, we'll see. Now here, I can find tons of wide mouth lids and bigger jars, much bigger like court-sized jars. But it was the 250ml size that I was having trouble with, because that's what I use mostly. And then this year, because I'm also newly gardening, and I've got a lot of tomatoes and some zucchini and a lot of other things, I knew I'd need some bigger jars, but it was difficult to find the 250ml and the 500ml jars. And now, I've gone online today because I might need some more. And it's difficult to find anything but the huge jars. And not everyone wants those.

CO: Yeah. Well, maybe we should arrange a national swap to see who's got what in their cupboards, hey?

VP: At this point today, I have had a friend call and asked me for cinnamon sticks. And she's a newly retired doctor friend of mine. And I said, so what are you making? And she said, Val, you taught me how to make spiced jelly, spiced crab apple jelly. So I'm making that. And then we traded stories because the orchard here isn't opening until the end of September because of COVID. So I have to go to the other side of finding crab apples, which is climbing trees basically on the side of the road, or pay a lot of money in the markets for them. But she needed the cinnamon sticks for her spiced jelly. So I said, well, do you have any extra jars? Because I'll trade you some cinnamon sticks for some jars.

CO: Did you score some jars?

VP: I didn't. But when I got home from a quick trip to the Bulk Barn today, looking for a couple of ingredients, I got home to find a few empty jars on my doorstep. And I've had friends come and drop off a box of, you know, assorted old jars and just give me the whole thing in case any of them worked for me. So the narrow mouth jars are the ones that I use mostly. And I had a lot of empty jars, but not enough lids.

CO: Right.

VP: And then lids are a problem too for the narrow mouth jars, down here anyway.

CO: Well, I guess this all begins at the beginning of season, when it was initially very difficult to get some tomato plants or to get seeds for cucumbers or whatever, because everyone wanted to have a garden. And then it makes sense of the end of the season. I don't think it's hoarding. I think everyone just planted all that stuff with some vision of being in their kitchen, making up all these preserves at the end.

VP: If we could just have predicted all this. The best part of all of this for me was at the beginning of COVID, when I said to myself three weeks in, I'm single; I live alone. And I said to myself, huh, what am I going to do if there's a supply chain problem with food, and I live on an island? So I thought I have a huge yard. I have a neighbour who's interested in gardening. I've got other neighbours who would surely love to have some of the food and I know would help me. And so I did go consult my brother-in-law in Fredericton, New Brunswick, who is an avid gardener, consulted on the seeds, called Vesey Seeds, who are quite famous here in York, P.E.I, because they do worldwide shipping of their seeds and bulbs. So I ordered my seeds. That was my biggest foresight was, oh, But I bet I’m not the only one having this thought I should grow some food. See if I can do it.

CO: Good for you.

VP: So I ordered right away, the seeds, probably the last week of March. And I don't know what day it was, but within a couple of weeks of my order of seeds, I had friends and neighbors saying that Vesey’s isn't taking anymore orders. They're sold out.

CO: That's right. Now, I'll just give you one little tip about canning since you're new to it. Is that insist on if you're going to give people gifts of preserves, if they want them again next year, they gotta give you the jar back.

VP: My sisters are really good at that. But I must tell the friends that I give things... people I give gifts to of preserves, I must tell them this year. Because guess what? They may not get spiced crab apple jelly this year if I can't find enough apples. But they will be getting things like tomato sauce, bread and butte, pickles, mustard pickles, chutney. What am I making tonight? I'm making Julia Child's provencal sauce and relish.

CO: Well, I'll let you get back to it. Good to talk to you.

VP: Thank you very much for calling, Carol.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

VP: Bye-bye.

CH: Valerie Paton is from Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, where there is a mason jar shortage.

[Music: Showtune]

SOD: German horn

CH: This morning, people across Germany braced themselves for the sound. The government warned everyone well in advance. But still, some people missed the memo.

[Sound: An air raid siren]

SPEAKER: I'm so confused. There’s, like, an alarm that's super loud, and I have no idea where it's coming from. And it has been going on for five minutes-ish. What is going on?

CH: What was going on — or off — was Germany's nationwide warning system. The Cold War-era sirens haven't been used for 30 years. So the Federal Office of Civil Protection and Disaster Assistance decided to test them — along with a new smartphone alert app. At a time when people are already on edge, the test was meant to reassure everyone that a reliable alert system was in place, in the event of a catastrophe. But by most accounts, the test itself was a catastrophe. The hashtag "Warntag2020" — which means “Warning Day 2020” started trending on Twitter. Some people didn't receive any alerts or hear any sirens. Some asked whether the whole thing was a prank. Others posted videos mocking the decades-old sirens themselves.

[Sound: A very sad sounding siren]

CH: [laughing] Somehow that actually sounds like an appropriate alarm for 2020 — or a dog after they got into the emergency rations. Speaking of which, some people gave up waiting and let their pets sound the alarm.

CH: Government officials may be in the doghouse. But at least now they know the system needs work. As one Twitter user pointed out: "The whole point of #Warntag2020 was to check if the system worked ... However, it wouldn't be very German if we didn't all complain about the faults in the system before they get fixed." Unquote.

September 10, 2020

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