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The AIH Transcript for September 6, 2018

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

HM: They were against the law. And now campaigners have succeeded in getting it overturned. India's highest court has ruled that gay sex is no longer a crime. I'll speak with one of the lawyers who won the case.

JD: Above and beyond and now — through. A Syrian refugee became a hero for swimming a lifeboat to safety in Greece. Now she has been charged with people smuggling. Our guest says that is ludicrous.

HM: As a matter of artifact. The loss of Brazil's National Museum has global consequences because relics from all over the world went up in flames — including items that originated in B.C.’s Haida Gwaii territory.

JD: The fountains of youth. As students in Detroit's return to school their thirst for knowledge is eclipsed by their actual thirst because the drinking water has been shut off to every public school in that city.

HM: The lodestar spangled banter. After that anonymous op-ed from inside the Trump White House yesterday everyone's talking about one word and searches for it have gone up astronomically.

JD: And…It was post haste or post mortem. Don't complain about Facebook to Mike Lythcott — a timely post saved his life after a nasty spill on a scooter sent him plunging 100 metres down a hill in Indonesia. As It Happens: The Thursday Edition. Radio that has a ‘tumbler’ account.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: India gay law overturned, Museum artifacts follow-up, Detroit school water

India gay law overturned

Guest: Menaka Guruswamy

SOUNDCLIP

CROWDS CHEERING AND CLAPPING

JD: That was the sound in New Delhi today after India's Supreme Court struck down a law that made sex a crime for people who are not straight. There were celebrations across the country tonight as Indians marked the end of restrictions that were first imposed by the British during colonial rule. We reached Menaka Guruswamy on her way home from the celebration that started it all. Ms. Guruswamy is one of the lawyers who won today's case. We reached her in New Delhi.

HM: Ms. Guruswamy, tell me what it was like then in the court when the decision was handed down earlier?

MENAKA GURUSWAMY: Well, you know, I mean, there was a mood of excitement and expectancy. We, all of us, the lawyers and clients tried to keep it together, but as judge after the judge read out sort of declared victory and operate operative portions of their judgements. Clearly this was a resounding win. Clearly the justices felt very strongly that LGBT Indians would have access to a full array of constitutional rights. This was a very, very big moment. If there ever was a resounding judgment, this was it.

HM: So what is this decision going to mean then for your clients and for LGBTQ people across India?

MG: I think this will mean that there is a real foundation for a, you know, this is a big, big step in terms of a fuller citizenship. And I think it's a firm foundation for the future. I think for now we're very happy with the terms of the judgment. We need some time to study it carefully before we try to figure out the next steps ahead.

HM: Do you think it will change public attitudes?

MG: I think that, you know, the justices have also asked that the government, in their words, sensitize the police, sensitize public servants and that is a very big first step because I think this is an actual roadmap. And, as you know, the law has a great ability to shape and then therefore change societal attitudes as the law has done in most other parts of the world including in North America. So I think that like elsewhere, this judgment here will profoundly change societal attitudes.

HM: The same courts that that issued the ruling had said in comments back in 2013 that it was a minuscule minority of people that were going to be affected — were affected by this this law. So what's changed?

MG: The court has shown that it's an introspective institution. It felt the need to reverse this decision and it has done so comprehensively in today's judgment. I think the fact that this change has come in five years is a big thing. I mean, you know, by contrast I think in America from Bowers to Lawrence was a 17-year journey here in India from Kaushal to Navtej Singh Johar has been a five-year journey and we're humbled by that.

HM: How was the law being imposed?

MG: I think the law defined all aspects of the lives of LGBTQ Indians. I think that the law had the ability to stigmatise. The law had the ability to prosecute. And obviously the law had the ability to prosecute and punish. But more importantly, I think the law said — as it existed then — said very categorically that you are second or third class citizens, you are un-convicted felons in your own country and this is not behaviour that is acceptable. Today, I think the Supreme Court has removed all of that. It has said that the Constitution is yours as well. This court is yours, this country is yours. And one of the justices, in a very moving statement, has said that you know we she owes LGBTQ people an unqualified apology to both them and their families for the trauma that they've been put through simply because the majority has been unable to understand.

HM: The law was first brought in by the British. Why did it linger for so long?

MG: I think for much of the post-colonial world we haven't had a serious enough internal conversation on law reform and that this judgment is indicative of a real need to have that conversation. It's not just colonial sodomy statutes, but it's other statutes to that date back to that time that really have no place in independent nations.

HM: Do you think this decision will potentially effect change in other former British colonies?

MG: I do believe that in 2013 when the court gave its decision upholding the sodomy law, I know that the court relied on it — looked to it. And so therefore I hope with this decision this will influence pending cases that are before courts and that this will also help activists and lawyers who are filing challenges to their own sodomy statutes, that they’d be able to cite this and gain some support from it.

HM: The ruling isn't being praised universally. One of the lawyers on the other side has argued that what you were defending as acts of love was a “disorder” that the lawyer said “only existed among the lower castes.” What do you want to say to that lawyer tonight?

MG: You know, I think that nothing in there sort of merits a response. It's just seeped in ignorance. I think this, the court locates its reasoning in constitutional morality and distinguishes that from societal and majority morality. Saying that that kind of societal the majority morality will not shape the laws understanding. And that's profoundly important, you know, in a time when populism is sweeping the globe for the Supreme Court to take this firm stand really sets it up as a beacon of hope. And for that we’re very proud of the court.

HM: Do you believe the majority of Indians are ready to follow the court's lead?

MG: Absolutely. I mean, I don't think India is a particularly intolerant country. It has not been our culture to criminalize LGBTQ people. This is something that came in with colonizers’ law. And I think this has never been a sense of what is India or who is an Indian. So I believe that this decision will go down well. I think there will always be people who will seek to exploit it for political gain. But I think as a democracy, we’re a mature constitution democracy, and people see through that.

HM: You've been celebrating with your colleagues and clients. What's the party been like?

MG: You know, I have to say that I think that unfortunately, at least the lawyers seem pretty tired. I think we've all had a long day. And so I think our clients are celebrating more effectively than we are. I think a lot of us, at least I'm looking forward to getting some sleep, and then waking up in a new country tomorrow.

HM: Ms. Guruswamy, congratulations, and thank you for talking with us.

MG: Thank you so much for your time. Take good care.

JD: Menaka Guruswamy is a lawyer in New Delhi. This morning, India's Supreme Court ruled in favour of her clients and threw out a law that made sex a crime for people who are not straight.

[Music: Blues Guitar]

Museum artifacts follow-up

Guest: Karen Duffek

JD: Firefighters are still combing through what is left of Brazil's National Museum in Rio de Janeiro. They have managed to salvage bone fragments from a room where ancient skulls were once displayed. Besides that discovery, it has been heaps of rubble and ash. Officials estimate that 90 per cent of the museum's artifacts were destroyed in Sunday night's massive fire. And many of those artifacts held answers to history well beyond Brazil's borders. One small collection, for example, held pieces from the Pacific Northwest of Canada, including parts of British Columbia. Karen Duffek is familiar with those items. She is a curator at Vancouver's Museum of Anthropology, the museum that helped digitize the collection at Brazil's National Museum. We reached Ms. Duffek in Vancouver.

HM: Ms. Duffek, how likely is it that these artifacts, some of which originate from B.C.’s Haida Gwaii territory, were destroyed in this fire?

KAREN DUFFEK: From what I have heard it's very likely unfortunately. It seems that all of the northwest coast pieces that were there were in that building and that they therefore are burnt now.

HM: Have you spoken with anyone through the museum in Brazil?

KD: My colleague Nuno Porto, who has worked with that museum, has been in touch with some of his colleagues to find out how they are doing and to offer our support.

HM: This collection I know comes from a large swath of the Pacific Northwest. But let's start with the items from the Haida Gwaii territory in B.C. Tell us a bit about them?

KD: One of the very special pieces is made out of a mountain sheep horn in is a very, very beautiful old ladle that has been steamed and shaped and carved so you can't tell it came from a mountain sheep horn — very spectacularly made.

HM: What would that have been used for?

KD: That would have been used in feasts and probably to ladle something very precious like a special kind of oil that was used as a condiment. So it would have been used on special occasions by high ranking people. And so the carving on that ladle, the making of it, everything was used to kind of augment to reflect the status of the person using it.

HM: And when did that date too?

KD: I would say that ladle could be from the early 1800s, early to mid-1800s. One of the earliest pieces is a set of armour that is also from the northern coast. So it's likely from north of the Haida from the Tlingit people, typical of Tlingit armour from what is now Alaska. And that's probably the most spectacular piece that would have been lost in this collection.

HM: Tell us about it? What does it look like and how is it constructed?

KD: It looks almost like the size of a barrel in its shape. It's made out of thin wooden slats that are last together with sinew and then it has a painted image in red and black on the front and back. So this would have been worn over probably a leather tunic by the warrior. It would have protected him all around his body and it would have been worn with a very heavy and very frightening looking helmet to cover his head and put fear into the heart of the opponent I would think.

HM: So it wasn't just ceremonial, it was actually something that would have been used in battle.

KD: Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. These pieces are pretty rare. I don't know if there is one in a Canadian Museum collection. I don't think so. You would find them in the very old museum collections of museums that did collect in the early years or that had explorers going in their early years so you would find them in St. Petersburg probably the British Museum, the ethnology Museum in Madrid and in New York where the oldest collections of the northwest coast are.

HM: You're talking about pieces up the coast of B.C. and into Alaska. It's kind of unusual to think that they ended up in this national museum in Rio.

KD: Yeah, it's exactly because of those relationships between nations in those early years. So what is now Alaska was part of the Russian empire. And so the Russians, you know, that's why they have very old collections from that very northern part of the coast. And so in gifting this Tlingit armour to the Portuguese royal family, it was an attempt to cement a relationship between the two nations. And then with Brazil being part of the Portuguese kingdom I guess that Portugal at some point decided to send some of these connections to the museum there to be shown. So these pieces were all acquired indirectly. The Rio museum did not head out to do the collecting on its own, it acquired them indirectly.

HM: What does the loss of these items mean especially for Indigenous History on the northern coast of B.C. ?

KD: Well, I kind of liken it to losing a library because each of these very old pieces, in their rarity, they hold so much information and Indigenous communities today, artists in the communities and their own scholars and researchers are really scouring museum collections to see what is out there and to study it. These things are like teachers, and so in a sense the collection in Rio, many people I think on the coast here did not know it existed to begin with. So this is the first many people have heard of it. So in a way these things in a sense were lost already but now the possibility of future reconnection to them is lost as well. But fortunately my colleague Nuno Porto did work with the museum to digitize some of these pieces and they're on our database, so they are accessible, some of them photographically, and that's something. Even photographs offer something of the information that Indigenous communities are very much looking for today.

HM: We looked at the images earlier this week, of course, of the fire and spoke with the deputy director at the museum and his personal devastation, of course, was a parent and it just was so hard to see. What does it do to people in your field? I mean, a curator of Museum and all the people who value these items for their history and the cultural significance to see something like this happen.

KD: It does put fear in your heart really because it points in a very painful way to the importance of funding the infrastructure of museums and heritage institutions. And that's a struggle for many museums, especially smaller ones, but it's essential to maintaining the material heritage as a nation. So it really does point to that.

HM: Ms. Duffek, it was always a sad story and now there's this Canadian connection as well. Thank you for telling us about it.

KD: Thanks so much for your interest.

HM: All right goodbye.

KD: Bye.

JD: Karen Duffek is a curator at Vancouver's Museum of Anthropology. We reached her in Vancouver.

[Music: Piano Ballad]

Detroit school water

Guest: Terrence Martin Sr.

JD: Students returning to school face all sorts of pressure — new teachers, new classes, new classmates, homework. But students in Detroit's public schools are facing another issue this fall — drinking water. It has been turned off at all public schools in Detroit after it tested positive for lead and copper. That is more than 100 schools, 50,000 students. No one is saying when the taps and the fountains will get turned back on. Terrence Martin Sr. is the Vice President of the Detroit Federation of Teachers. He also has a child in public school. We reached Mr. Martin in Detroit.

HM: Mr. Martin, is your son able to drink the water at his school?

TERRENCE MARTIN: No, my son is not able to drink the water at his school. At a little bit over 100 of our Detroit Public Schools the water has been turned off for precautionary reasons.

HM: Do you know how and why it is unsafe?

TM: Yes. The school district, and to the school district's credit, they went and they conducted testing, water testing over the spring and summer at about 24 schools. And of the 24 schools, 16 of them reported back high levels of lead and copper. So as a precautionary measure because of the differential, the high differential, they just shut off the water in all the schools.

HM: Do you know if this is the first year they've conducted these tests?

TM: This is the first year they've done this expansive testing. There was some very surface testing done by the city back in 2016. But this is the first time that the school district has the expansive of testing. So when the expansive testing was done it showed high levels of copper and lead in a vast majority of the schools tested.

HM: So given that, do you have any way of knowing how long the school kids have been drinking this water before the taps were shut off?

TM: Yeah, we have no way of knowing and this is not a new problem. In 2016 there was a national awareness of the conditions of the Detroit public schools. And back then it was really the physical plant, mold, leaky roofs etc. But we had no knowledge back man, or even now to some degree, of how long we've been dealing with bad water.

HM: It's been really hot in Detroit at the start of the school year. How are students and staff coping with this?

TM: In many instances is very unbearable. We have about a handful of our schools that have air conditioning, but over 80 do not. And it's been unbearable for the last couple of days. And the issue with the water has simply exacerbated that problem.

HM: So where are the kids and staff getting the drinking water?

TM: So kids on staff are getting drinking water from district-provided water coolers. There there's a water cooler at every school on every floor and students and staff both have access to that. But as supplemental assistance the union has really stepped up and provided water as well to students at all schools.

HM: You know, we're seeing these reports where parents are actually sending bottled water with their kids it's almost like they don't trust that the school or the Union or anybody else is going to take care of them.

TM: I know that a lot of schools there is this community outpour and parents are sending bottled water with their students as they can afford to do that. But, you know, this is an issue that really needs to be addressed, and these are these are the bare minimum, the bare necessities that our students need to be successful in the classroom. And that's just a short term solution to this issue. We really need to be looking at the infrastructure problem. At this particular time we don't know if this is a city issue or if it's just a school district issue. And those are the questions that need to be asked for the community as quickly as possible.

HM: So who is responsible for fixing this?

TM: Good question. Until we know exactly what the root cause of this is it could be the school district, could be the city, it could be the state of Michigan. What you're seeing today is just years and years of folks in power ignoring the physical plant and ignoring the quality of the environment that our kids were learning and our teachers we're teaching it.

HM: Do you look at this situation would be seen as acceptable anywhere else in the United States?

TM: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And we're not accepting it here either.

HM: So when is it going to end?

TM: That's a good question. When this will end, we don't know. We don't know if this is a two-week, three-week fix. We don't know if it's going to last school year.

HM: Has your son asked why the taps have been turned off?

TM: He has and I've explained to him that the water is not safe to drink. And what a conversation to have to have with a 12-year-old who wants to go to school tomorrow and each and every day and wants to be in a clean a safe and environment, to not be able to drink the water makes absolutely no sense. Just a few miles away from here in places like West Bloomfield, and Farmington Hills and Canton, those things aren't an issue. Our students deserve the very best. Our students deserve the quality environment that they need to be successful students. And we're going to ensure, at least the union is going to ensure, that we continue the pressure on the powers that be to fix this for us.

HM: And what's the message your son and these other kids are getting from the fact that this has been allowed to happen? And what do you think the impact is on them and their ability to feel comfortable and learn in the school?

TM: Well, they’re questioning who really cares about them. They're questioning whether or not there is an entity out there that that's going to make sure that they have the very best. To have to deal with water and washing your hands and getting a drink is just absolutely absurd for our students who have to deal with trauma in their neighbourhoods, that have to deal with homelessness, to have to deal with the factors that poverty causes on top of this is just grossly unfair to this population of children.

HM: Yeah, it's really disheartening to hear that this water situation is continuing and that the kids are the ones that are having to deal with it. Thank you very much Mr. Martin, I appreciate you talking to us.

TM: Thank you.

JD: Terrence Martin Sr. is with the Detroit Federation of Teachers. This week the water is off and all public schools in Detroit because of high levels of lead and copper. You can read more about this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Burt Reynolds Obit

JD: He was the biggest movie star in the world and he acted like it. But somehow it kind of made him more charming. Burt Reynolds, who starred in goofy comedies and serious dramas, was one of the biggest box office draws of the 70s and the 80s. Reynolds died today. He was 82 years old. After years of working on television he got his first big role in a major movie and made the most of it. That role was Lewis Medlock. The movie was Deliverance in 1972. And it was a huge hit. And then just a few years later he had another hit — a completely different hit in Smokey and the Bandit co-starring Sally Field. Mr. Reynolds had a lot of hits, a lot more hits, including the 1974 prison football drama The Longest Yard. He also had a number of flops like the 1975 musical At Long Last Love, which the director publicly apologized for making. And he made some choices he regretted, including turning down the roles of James Bond and Indiana Jones, and posing nude on a bearskin rug for Cosmopolitan magazine. But he never stopped working. Over a six-decade career he appeared in more than 100 films. Here he is talking with Johnny Carson on The Tonight Show in 1972 about performing his own stunts in Deliverance.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHNNY CARSON: Did you do your own stunt work in this movie?

BURT REYNOLDS: Yeah, everybody did in the picture. We all did the canoe stuff.

JC: Yeah, because it capsizes in the water?

BR: Everybody turns over and gets almost drowned.

JC: That means capsizing.

BR: That's what it said.

JC: Now you say you went over a waterfall?

BR: Went over the waterfall. You see they had the waterfall there and they sent the dummy over, which was a dummy of my body.

JC: How big a drop was it?

BR: 70 feet. And I saw the dummy go over and I said the director ‘That looks like a dummy.’ And the director having seen me do all these tremendous physical things.

JC: Yes.

BR: Like throw up in the morning. He said ‘You want to go over the waterfall?’ I said ‘Of course’

JC: You actually said of course?

BR: I got on top of the waterfall and they had a dam way above the waterfall that stopped the river, and I had a rope, hanging onto the rope at the top of the waterfall waiting for the water to be released. And I was lying there looking at the crew and the crew were all going ‘Dummy, dummy.’ I'm the dummy, I'm really a dummy. So they said ‘Are you ready? Let it loose.’ I went over the waterfall, which wasn't that bad actually. It's kind of terrific. It was like an ordinary taxi ride in New York. But I hit a rock at the bottom of the waterfall.

JC: At least broke it broke your fall.

BR: Yes.

[LAUGHTER]

JD: That was Burt Reynolds speaking with Johnny Carson on The Tonight Show in 1972. Burt Reynolds died today. He was 82 years old.

Part 2: Sara Mardini arrest, Scooter rescue

Sara Mardini arrest

Guest: Florian Becker

JD: Sara Mardini should be back at college finishing her first week. Instead, the Syrian refugee is sitting in a prison in Athens. Ms. Mardini rose to fame in 2015 when she and her sister — both elite swimmers — swam their waterlogged dinghy to the shores of Lesbos. Its motor a died on the way from Turkey. Ms Mardini made her home in Germany but she returned to the Greek island to volunteer in the refugee camps. Now she and two other volunteers are charged with ‘people smuggling’ among other things. Florian Becker is the director of Bard College Berlin and the founder of the scholarship program that brought Ms. Mardini to that school. We reached Mr. Becker in Berlin

HM: Mr. Becker, you have been in contact with Sara Mardini and her family. What can you tell us about how she is doing in prison?

FLORIAN BECKER: I was able to speak with her last week. She has a very strong young woman. But I also know that as time is progressing, prison is starting to get to her.

HM: Did she tell you anything about the conditions in which she is being held?

FB: It's fine. And it's also obvious that the other inmates like her a great deal and they sort of rallied behind her and she's organized a new TV set for them. So she's an activist even in prison.

HM: What did you think when you first heard that she had been arrested?

FB: I was extremely surprised, and of course, concerned with her well-being. I never thought that there could be anything to the charges.

HM: Remind us who Sara Mardini is and what she did to help so many people?

FB: So to me of course, she is a student but she's also got quite a remarkable story. She's a very talented swimmer, as is her sister who actually went on to swim in the Olympics in Rio. But they became, both of them, became rather famous because they are themselves refugees from Syria. Their house in Damascus was destroyed and they fled across the Mediterranean Sea. And about 30 minutes into the journey on a little inflatable boat, the engine gave out and the two sisters got into the water. They've been swimming since they were five and they cajoled that boat pushing and shoving and pulling it to a safe landing on Lesbos. They were in the water for about three-and-a-half-hours and rescuing the 18 other people on that raft.

HM: How did Sara end up working with Emergency Response Center International?

FB: So at some point in 2016 she was approached by this NGO from Lesbos and she decided that her place was there at the place of her own ordeal.

HM: What are Greek authorities alleging that Sara Mardini and these other volunteers did?

FB: So loosely speaking, the charges are very detailed and full of mistakes. But loosely speaking, she's being accused of membership in a criminal organization, of espionage and the core charge is really human trafficking. We were already, very early on, able to prove conclusively that on many of the dates that are named in that charge sheet she was in fact studying in Berlin in the seminar rooms of our university.

HM: You don't believe that Sara is guilty of human smuggling or these other charges. So what kind of messages do you think the authorities are perhaps trying to send through her arrest?

FB: I believe it is another symptom of the ongoing criminalization of sea rescue in the Mediterranean.

HM: Greek police say that they spent six months and huge resources investigating the case and through these arrests. They've released a statement saying that ERCI had acted with the sole purpose of profiting by smuggling people into Greece. Is it possible the NGO is guilty of these things?

FB: Yeah, I don't have any privileged information about that. Maybe the leadership of the NGO is involved in some dealings, but there is absolutely no indication that Sara, Sean Binder or other volunteers were in any way implicated in criminal doings.

HM: It could be as many as 18 months before Sara and the other volunteers are actually in court to face trial. What will you and other people be doing in the meantime to support her and these other volunteers?

FB: It is possible for the charges to be dismissed. It is possible for her to be released, at least from this preventive, rather extraordinary preventive custody that she is in, so she could await any trial in Berlin. And, of course, once this went to trial, to proper trial, if indeed it did, we are convinced that Sara would be acquitted. So that's the first and of course by far the most important track. The second one is to support her while she is in prison. So we're working with the Greek Refugee Council who can visit her when her mother who lives here in Berlin that is not able to do so. And then the third track is to talk about it and to show that she's got nothing to hide. She's a student like many others. And she's also quite an extraordinary human being. I've learned so much about her and have the greatest respect for her. And I believe that it can only help her case if there is public pressure and people realize that this is not really about two young volunteers doing extraordinary ordinary help.

HM: Florian Becker, it is good to talk with you thank you. Thank you.

FB: Thank you.

JD: Florian Becker is the director of Bard College Berlin. We reached him in Berlin.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Nike ‘Just Do It’ origin

JD: Just Do It. It is an iconic marketing slogan. And this week to celebrate its 30th anniversary, Nike launched a new Just Do It ad campaign and enlisted an NFL free agent Colin Kaepernick to be the face of that campaign. Some are applauding Nike's decision. Others are boycotting the brand for choosing Mr. Kaepernick, who of course protested police violence against black men by kneeling during the U.S. national anthem at games. But as the Just Do It hashtag goes viral the controversial origin story the slogan remains relatively unknown. In 1988 an advertising executive pitched the Just Do It slogan to Nike and the executive admitted the statement was a riff on the phrase ‘let's do it’ which had been stamped in many Americans memory a decade earlier for a somewhat morbid reason. In 1977 convicted murderer Gary Gilmore was executed by firing squad at Utah State Prison. It was the first time someone had been executed in nearly a decade. And when asked whether he had any last words, Mr. Gilmore responded ‘Let's do it’ here is Mr. Gilmore's literary agent Larry Schiller speaking to former As It Happens host Barbara Frum, just hours after he witnessed Mr. Gilmore's execution.

SOUNDCLIP

BARBARA FRUM: Mr. Schiller, can you hear me?

LARRY SCHILLER: Yes, I do.

BF: Okay. It's hard to hear you.

LS: Well, maybe you have an experience like this that’s what happens to your voice.

BF: How are you feeling tonight?

LS: I’ll know that tomorrow.

BF: What do you mean?

LS: It’s not easy to watch a man get shot.

BF: Where did you watch from, Mr. Schiller?

LS: 25 feet away to his left.

BF: Did it did he see you there until the herd was put on?

LS: Yes. I walked up to him. I was within five, six inches of him. Looked up, there was a lot of torment and pain in his face but he was strong and confident and he knew that this was the eventual conclusion. It would have to be.

BF: Did you expect you'd feel the way you seem to tonight?

LS: Oh, I think the only thing I expected before that is that it would probably change. How it would change my life, only time will tell.

BF: Why did you watch?

LS: Why? Because I have a responsibility to my profession. I have a responsibility to the world to inform them what went on. So that speculation could be put aside.

BF: Mr. Schiller, as I understand it you bid for these rights, it was a story that you wanted to get?

LS: Sometimes you have to use money to gain access. That does not negate the responsibility you have as a journalist. Sometimes when you use money to gain access it only makes the job more difficult.

BF: But why was it a story you wanted to have?

LS: Because it was a story that nobody else could have. The man was a mystery. He may remain a mystery.

JD: From our archives, that was literary agent Larry Schiller speaking to a former As It Happens host Barbara Frum on January 17th of 1977. Hours before that interview Mr. Schiller had witnessed the execution of his client, murderer Gerry Gilmore. Mr. Gilmore's last words before he was shot by firing squad were ‘Let's do it’ which were the inspiration for Nike's iconic slogan ‘Just Do It.’ Now as we mentioned earlier, you can hear much more from our archives on a pretty cool new timeline that we have created to mark 50 years of As It Happens. It's on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Scooter rescue

Guest: Mike Lythcott

JD: Help. In danger. Call police. A five-word, three-sentence Facebook post that saved the life of American traveler Ubud on the Indonesian island of Bali. One night in late August Mike Lythcott was riding a scooter around the village with a friend. They crashed and they fell — vehicle and all — 100 metres down a ravine. Both of them were seriously hurt and invisible from the road. Mr. Lythcott realized to his amazement he still had his phone on him. So he got on social media to alert his friends he was in trouble. What followed can best be described as a crowdsourced rescue mission. Mike Lythcott caught was just recently released from hospital. We reached him in Kuta, Indonesia.

HM: Mike Lythcott. What do you remember of the night when you and your friend crashed your scooter?

MIKE LYTHCOTT: You know, we were driving back to the hotel from our very first night out. We came to a hill and we're going up the hill. I gave the scooter some powers so we can get up. At that time a truck passed by, which, you know, blinds you temporarily, when that passed by realize ‘Oh here comes a turn,’ and at that point I hit the brakes to negotiate what's a pretty standard turn and I'm a pretty experienced biker, I’ve been riding for 20 years. But all of a sudden the brakes they just didn't — the bike’s still going forward. At that point I realized that's we’re either going out to wipe out to make the turn or we’re going over. And we went over. I don't have a memory after that because we obviously hit hard, but then we came to and that's when I realized things were things were bad.

HM: How dark was it?

ML: It was three in the morning so it was pitch black. My glasses had gone flying, you know, I basically could move and I was slipping down into whatever I was in. You know, I couldn't see where it was it was it was woods or a ravine or a cliff.

HM: What could you hear around you?

ML: Obviously my friend who was on the bike with me calling out my name, calling for help. Yeah, all we could hear was basically a waterfall, which actually ended up helping to save us because it was actually — apparently it's a pretty well-known waterfall and based on GPS coordinates that we sent people were actually able to figure out that I was hearing this place called Sweetwater Falls, which is just around the corner from where we wrecked.

HM: Let's hear how you got that message out. You're lying there was your phone handy?

ML: The phone had, which we had a local SIM, it wasn't in my hands or my pocket — it was gone. And by some miracle I just realized that I had my other iPhone in my jacket pocket. It didn't have a local sim but I could turn on my international roaming data, which I did and it actually picked up a signal. I immediately realized I had to get the widest message out. And of course Facebook was the first thing I thought of because you can do live locations you can do WhatsApp with live GPE locations dropping a pin and I realize it is the only shot to get people to figure out where we were.

HM: So you didn't think you should try and find a number for the local police?

ML: I didn't know what the local number was and I realized that I was also using this phone one handed. I was afraid if I dropped it would slip off and I wouldn't get it. So, you know, I didn't have time to go and Google what is the local Balinese number. I actually had tried calling 911 just because I just didn't know what to call. That obviously didn't work and I just realized I could to spend time trying to find it and Google playing with my phone or I could just open up Facebook which already open and just put out the quickest message, which was “Help. In danger. Call police.”

HM: That's all you put out there?

ML: Yeah. And, you know, I tagged my location and apparently it worked because, I mean, obviously like I had to make the biggest impact. I have 2,600 Facebook friends, which means a lot of you are going to see it. It was the daytime in the U.S. and Europe where most my friends are so they're going to be online, at their phones, at their computers.

HM: When did you know you got the message out?

ML: Literally within maybe two minutes I actually started getting phone calls from friends. Friends called me on WhatsApp and my friend first called like ‘Where are you?’ I'm like ‘I don't know, but I'll send you my GPS live location right now.’ Another friend called, same thing. And a few other friends call like ‘We've been calling the embassy. We've been calling the consulate. We've been calling rescuers. And that's when I realized it was happening in real time really fast.

HM: And it wasn't just happening in one place right. This was people coordinating all around the world.

ML: Yeah, I had my friend from New York was the first person they called me. The next was a friend from Vancouver. The next were friends — I had two friends calling in from Prague who lived there. I've been traveling the world for almost ten years straight. I've made a lot of friends all over the world. I think that’s also a big part of what saved me was that I just have this wide network. And all of a sudden they saw something that they know from me was real, you know.

HM: Were you worried about that battery? You said it was old you didn't have that much power left. Were you worried it was going to die?

ML: That was my main worry, honestly, because like when I first thought I didn’t have my phone, my first thought was ‘I'm going to die here.’ And then when I realized I had my phone I know this battery doesn't last long I have to charge it twice a day.

HM: How long were you in Stacey lying there before you were found?

ML: I've estimated that about four hours. And, you know, once the battery died I said ‘Well I've gotten enough phone calls. I've sent out an GPS pin locations in both WhatsApp and Facebook.’ Maybe about an hour later people found us.

HM: When you were finally rescued and it's daylight and you suddenly have a sense of where you are, how far down were you in that ravine?

ML: Once it was daytime I realized that we were in a pretty steep ravine — 30 degrees and about 100 meters off the road.

HM: Would you, do you think, have been found if it hadn't been for you putting out that Facebook message? Would someone who stumbled across you?

ML: I think eventually but we might have died from injuries. Stacey was a lot less injured than I was at the end of the day. So I think she would've been ok. I think I would have possibly died from internal injuries because I was pretty badly bleeding internally when they found me.

HM: Is your prognosis good now?

ML: They fixed my abdominal injuries. They've re-expanded my lungs, patched up my arm, and then it's just a matter of now, it's just my fractured rib and my fractured C7 and T1 just need to heal. So basically I'm going to make a full recovery it's just going to be two months of basically laying in bed not moving so my neck heals as fast as possible.

HM: Well Mike, I wish you really speedy recovery. Appreciate you telling us the story.

ML: Thank you. Thank you for getting it out there.

JD: Mike Lythcott is a web and app designer who crashed his scooter in Bali. We reached him in Kuta, Indonesia.

[Music: Rock]

Lodestar

JD: From 1979 Flat On My Face by a band that was once the pride and joy of Springfield, Ohio — Lodestar. Now lodestar only put out one album before breaking up, but yesterday Lodestar started trending. And we get so excited we tweeted out the cover of that classic album. Did it signal the long awaited reunion of Lodestar? It did not. Lodestar wasn't in the spotlight because of some rock n roll heroes. It was in the spotlight because of an quote “anonymous coward” in the words of White House spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Last night on the program we talked about that unnamed writers New York Times op-ed ‘I am Part of the Resistance inside The Trump Administration.’ And in that self-serving piece about thwarting Mr. Trump's more misguided impulses until he is out of office, the author referred to the example of the late Senator John McCain as quote “a lodestar for restoring honour to public life and our national dialogue,” unquote. Well suddenly people believe the word lodestar was the lodestar that would lead them to the mysterious White House insider. Lodestar became a hashtag. Dictionary Dotcom tweeted that searches for lodestar had increased by 3,000 per cent over 24 hours. Well lodestar, it turns out, has several meanings. It means guiding star. And now also has come to mean bad writer using awkward pompous cliche. Unfortunately in this case it does not mean the return of lodestar from Springfield, Ohio.

[Music: Ambient Beeps]

Sharkwater Extinction TIFF

JD: Rob Stewart was only a kid when he had his first encounter with a shark — and it was a shock. But the shock came when he realized the animal he was told to fear was actually afraid of him. The moment set Mr. Stewart on a mission to change society's misconceptions about sharks. In 2007 the Toronto-born filmmaker released Sharkwater. The documentary exposed the shark finning industry and inspired conservation campaigns. It also inspired Mr. Stewart to create a sequel called Sharkwater Extinction. He wanted the film to make viewers quote “see a bit of their softer side, a bit of their intelligence and maybe see a bit of themselves in the sharks.” Last year while shooting that film Mr. Stewart died in a diving accident. He was 37 years old. Earlier today Matt Galloway. host of CBC Toronto's Metro Morning, spoke with Mr. Stewart's parents Brian and Sandy Stewart about the sequel, which premieres at the Toronto International Film Festival tomorrow.

SOUNDCLIP

BRIAN STEWART: His belief was he had to educate people through entertainment and make movies more entertaining. It's not typical doc. It's more follow my adventure, come with me on this adventure, and that was really what he wanted to do is continue to make them. He had twelve other projects he in development.

MATT GALLOWAY: Part of that adventure is danger. And, I mean, he faced real danger, whether it was in the water sure, but also from armed men who were not pleased with what he was exposing. What was it like for you to know that he was in that danger?

BS: It was something he always said that he'll be alright. And we believe he would be all right. And I think, quite honestly, his fear was never the oceans never animals, never creatures. Sharks were never a thought, even going to great whites was not a concern for us. It was the people that were the concern. And it was always in the back of our mind but never thought that it would be something like a dive accident. Following the accident and really getting an understanding that this movie needed to be made was the key for us and we felt that the he did not die in vain. There was a lot of information in this movie that needs to be put out there.

MG: Did it help with the loss of your son and in helping to try to push this project forward something that he was so committed to?

SANDY STEWART: Well, it's funny. We really haven't had a chance to grieve because we've been so busy since this. So yes, it did help. We learned, actually learned, so much about him too — his story and what he wanted to achieve in the world.

BS: And seeing him on footage almost every day for the last 19 months has been difficult because it's like he's still here. We hear his voice every day.

MG: What's that like to hear him?

SS: Especially the first time we saw the rough cut and we knew there was a film. But seeing him on screen, hearing his voice, it was just like he was there.

BS: And in some ways he still was there.

JD: That was Brian and Sandy Stewart speaking to Matt Galloway on CBC Toronto's Metro Morning earlier today. Their late son Rob Stewart was a filmmaker and an advocate for sharks. Tomorrow his film Sharkwater Extinction premieres at the Toronto International Film Festival.

Part 3: Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women (MMIW): Laurie Odjick, NY Times op-ed: forensic linguist

Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women (MMIW): Laurie Odjick

Guest:

JD: Ten years ago today 16-year-old Maisy Odjick disappeared. Ms. Odjick was having a sleepover with her friend Shannon Alexander who had also vanished. The pair were last seen leaving a dance at a Maniwaki, Quebec arena. Police have never determined what happened to them. Back in 2015. We spoke to Maisy's mother, Laurie Odjick, as part of a special series on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. Carol asked her about the last time she saw her daughter.

LAURIE ODJICK: Well, she went missing on the 6th of September that's the Saturday, and the last time I saw her was the Friday.

CO: What do you remember about the last time you saw her?

LO: My goodness. I had gone to my mom’s because I had to drop off her pots and Maisy and Shannon were there, they were mowing my mom's lawn and I hugged and kissed her and told her I loved her and I would see her later.

CO: At what point did you realize that she was missing?

LO: We didn't hear from her all weekend. And Sunday my mom called and asked if I heard from her at all because she usually calls one of us and alarm bells went off. Come Monday morning we called the police. And that same evening they came to my house for a report and that was it. Nothing was done because police assumed that the girls had run away. There wasn’t an investigation at all for the girls. We as a family had to do many things on our own.

JD: Laurie Odjick in conversation with Carol about the disappearance of her daughter Maisy from 2015. Since that interview there has been a change in government. The national inquiry on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls is underway. And yet Ms. Odjick still waits for answers and she still waits for justice. As you have heard this week on As It Happens we are marking 50 years of this program on the radio. And as part of that we are revisiting some stories we've previously covered. Late last month Carol called Ms. Odjik again in Maniwaki, Quebec. Here's that conversation.

CO: Laurie, could you have imagined 10 years ago that a decade later you would still not know what happened to your daughter?

LO: I still can't believe this is happening to our family, so no. It's very hard to live with. In 10 years not a day goes by that we don't think about her and miss her and just want her to come home.

CO: When we spoke with you three years ago you said that you think about her every day and you still all believe that she's out there somewhere and that she could come home.

LO: When you live with something like this you have to have hope. I mean, I can't even describe it. I mean, we're all hoping that she's out there somewhere but either way we just want her home. We want, as a family, we want closure.

CO: Can you tell us a bit about Maisy? Just remind us what she's like? Because you described the last time this wonderful young woman — well on the threshold of womanhood. Tell us about Maisy.

LO: Oh, my goodness. Her spirit is so great. I mean, you know, her siblings loved her and still love her I should say. And she was the one that took care of all the birthday parties and she was amazing as a daughter, a friend and her spirit was just — is just really great. I miss holding her in my arms and smelling her hair. Her hair and always smelled of strawberries and I just miss holding her, seeing her smile, hearing her laugh. I miss everything about her.

CO: You can still remember how her hair smelled?

LO: Yes I can. Yes I can.

CO: When we spoke last it was on the threshold of an inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. You didn't have much faith that that was going to yield anything. Do you still feel —now that it has been launched and been operating — how do you feel about that inquiry?

LO: You know, with the actual inquiry, I believe they did the best they can with what they were given. I was hoping that they would get more time because two years is just simply not enough time to reach out and touch all the families and to make sure they hear their stories. And the time that they gave for the inquiry it was not enough. You know, my biggest thing was always to make sure that families get the help that they need out there, and that's something I advocate for tremendously because, you know, I felt all alone going through this whole process.

CO: Do you think that things would be any different today if Maisy's disappearance was today? Has anything changed? Have the authorities begun to take more seriously when they hear of a girl or a woman, an Indigenous person disappearing, than they did in that time did you have so well described how almost indifferent they were to the plight of Maisy 10 years ago?

LO: I'm hoping that they did learn. But, I mean, you could still hear all over the news you see it all over social media that when someone's loved one goes missing, I don't think things have changed very much. With this inquiry I'm hoping that'll change for families. I don't wish this on anyone. And I just want to make sure that when someone is going through something like this the families are well supported. So time will tell but, you know what, it's been 10 years and nothing has changed for us as a family.

CO: There was a tip last year, wasn't there? And I know it was very difficult for you and your family. They actually launched a full scale search based on some information the police had received yet nothing came of that. What effect does that have on you and your family?

LO: It's devastating. You know, like I said, because all we carry is hope and they came in looking for a body and we knew that from the start, and I can’t and describe how we felt as a family, you know. As a family we went, and are still going through, a lot of trauma that this has happened to us with our daughter. So having them coming in knowing that they were looking for a body was devastating but we know it has to be done and we also know that that's a big possibility that she's no longer with us.

CO: When Maisy her friend Shannon disappeared the police just presumed they were they were runaways and at that time you didn't have much help. But you said when we spoke last that there was a wonderful investigator that had been assigned to the case and that gave you hope. Has he yielded very much in the way of results?

LO: No. I know that he's done a lot of interviews but nothing has come out of them at all. That's something that should have happened in the beginning, you know, and it didn't have to wait till like almost five years into the disappearance for something to come like that to our family.

CO: You have, though, in the course of these 10 years become a really important spokesperson demanding that families get the support they need, they get results that they deserve from investigations and you've been part of the National Family Advisory Circle. What has that mean for you to be part of that circle?

LO: As a family member going into that circle, you know, it was amazing because sometimes we felt that we had a voice. Whether they heard us or not we were able to share and to more or less kind of guide them as to how we feel as families and what we think should be included in the inquiry. And so I sat in that circle because I wanted to be a part of it and hopefully I was able to make a small difference with this inquiry.

CO: How will you and your family and the other children, how will you mark this anniversary of Maisy's disappearance?

LO: We're going to have a vigil here in the community. We’ll do a little walk and you know I make a plight if anybody has information and this year it's going to be nice because I had a call out to some jingle dress dancers and hopefully we can have a nice little round dance of some healing.

CO: Well Laurie, I wish you get that healing and I appreciate so much that you speak with us. I know it's hard to keep answering these questions, but thank you.

LO: No, thank you. Because, you know what, it also spreads awareness for the girls and for other families as well. So that's why I do it.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

LO: Bye.

JD: That was Laurie Odjick in Maniwaki, Quebec speaking with Carol. Ms. Odjick’s daughter Maisy went missing ten years ago today, along with her friend Shannon Alexander. She was 16 years old at the time. Carol will be returning to As It Happens on Monday.

[Music: Somber Guitar]

Lise Payette Obit

JD: Lise Payette was a lot of things in Quebec. Writer, journalist, feminist and the PQ minister responsible for putting the words “Je me souviens” provincial license plates. Lise Payette died quietly last night at home. She was 87 years old. In life Ms. Payette was anything but quiet. In 1990 she spoke to her one time CBC cohost Peter Gzowski about a controversial documentary that she had written. Disparaître questioned the future of French Quebec, given its low birth rate, the English speakers all around and, most controversial controversially, the dangers of Ms. Bayette saw in immigration. Mr. Gzowski had some questions about that, and Ms. Bayette did not hesitate to answer.

SOUNDCLIP

LISE PAYETTE: We're not asking for immigrants to give up their cultures. We're asking them to learn French and integrate to the French world in Quebec. Is that so difficult to understand?

PETER GZOSKI: Are you all troubled by the reception? I mean, I know people who worked on that film — they're uncomfortable with the way it's gone over. They don't want to…

LP: Well, we are uncomfortable because we are not allowed to say those things anymore. And I think it's dangerous. I think in a democracy silence is dangerous. And a subject like this one is not easy to bring up because if you say you have a problem with immigration you're already a racist. So you're not supposed to say it alone. And it is a problem to us so we must discuss it. And we must discuss it with them. Find out what they want and if they're ready to give us a hand. If we don't say it who’s going to talk about that?

PG: Okay. I want to talk about your tele…

LP: Let's go ahead. Don't you feel that silence is dangerous?

PG: You’re taking over again.

LP: Silence is dangerous. You have to be able to talk about everything.

PG: Silence is dangerous but sending signals that encourage racism is also dangerous. And if those signals are based on irresponsible premises then they are doubly dangerous, they're more dangerous than silence.

LP: I don’t agree with you.

PG: To send a signal that if you let some of these people in — “these people” — to send that kind of signal that your society will be in turmoil, that you'll have race riots, that you'll have people running around saying ‘My kid can't speak French anymore.’ That's more dangerous than silence madame.

LP: We already have them in schools, the riots. Come and try to solve our problem. You're welcome.

PG: Well, you can solve it by dealing with it, but that film cast gasoline on the flames, it didn't cast reason into an emotional situation.

LP: It brought the subject where it was supposed to be.

JD: Well, eventually Mr. Gzoski did turn the subject to Ms. Payette’s surprising change of careers from politics to the writer of a hit soap opera.

SOUNDCLIP

LP: Well, you have to understand it's important in Quebec. It's probably the best way to get to people to let them see where they are, what they have done, what they want. That's probably what's been interesting me more than politics. I've been in politics because it's impossible to live in Quebec, be responsible and not want to change things in politics. All my adult life I've heard about the problems between Quebec and Canada and I'm fed up with that. And I thought in 1976 that we were getting into power to change that, that we would never talk about those problems anymore but we will try to build Quebec and you would try to build Canada and we could be friends doing that. I'm fed up with all that and. Getting to the tele-romance it is probably my way of getting back to women, of talking to them trying to change things — that I've been trying to do all my life. I used everything in my hands to do it. Everything that was available to me I've used.

JD: That was writer, politician, journalist and feminist Lise Payette in conversation with Peter Gzoski on CBC Radio's Morning Side in 1990. Lise Payette died last night. She was 87 years old.

[Music: Ambient Guitar Plucks]

NY Times op-ed: forensic linguist

Guest: Robert Leonard

JD: It just takes one anonymous op-ed in The New York Times from a senior official in the Trump White House and suddenly everyone's a forensic linguist. Since yesterday's publication of ‘I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration,’ speculation as to who wrote the thing has been rampant. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says it wasn't him. As does Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats. Vice President Mike Pence, who Internet sleuths immediately jumped on for his frequent use of the word lodestar, has also denied involvement. Well, Robert Leonard really is a forensic linguist at Hofstra University in Hempstead New York. And that is where we reached him.

HM: Mr. Leonard, when you read something juicy and anonymous like this op-ed, as a forensic linguist, does it make your heart pound?

ROBERT LEONARD: Yeah. It's a puzzle waiting to be solved.

HM: When you first saw this op-ed what went through your head?

RL: That a lot of people were gonna be asked me if I could figure out who is the author. We're so far away from doing what would actually be a normal forensic linguistic examination investigating the authorship. I mean, I can see the same things that everybody else can see, you know use of lodestar, of course, and maybe a few other things. But the way one does this is one that has a suspect pool of possible authors and we need examples of known writings and they have to be very carefully picked because we have to make sure that they’re not say jointly written by someone else or maybe written by a staff member. These are public people and not all public people write their own press releases.

HM: How much does that taint the investigation for you if you know that are materials that may have had other authors?

RL: Well, look at it from a fingerprint or a DNA point of view. If the DNA is mixed with somebody else's DNA that's certainly going to create a real problem for the investigators.

HM: Are there computer programs that you can plug the materials into that will kind of help sort out the patterns in language or the use of particular words?

RL: Oh, yes and we use them all the time. But the problem is that you always have to have a human interpret things because, for example, if we were to use these programs, to use lodestar again, we'll find that Mike Pence used lodestar eight times more than anybody else in they suspect pool. But does that make it more likely that Mike Pence wrote the document? Well, this is an anonymous document and with an anonymous documents we always have to beware of disinformation. So people who aren't going to sign their names to things will very often try to either mask their own linguistic patterns, like say they have a dialect that would help identify them. They know this so maybe they suppressed that or have somebody help them with it and they may also masquerade as somebody else. In this case maybe Mike Pence. And they would do that by using the very obvious to anyone use of lodestar in Mike Pence's writings.

HM: So is that the clue to you that jumped out that it's too obvious?

RL: Well, it could be. But you see, again, that's why all these things really beg investigation.

HM: Beyond lodestar is there anything that you saw in this piece in the way of phrasing, language, words that jumped out at you as something you should be looking at?

RL: Many, many things. All over the Web are people pointing out different turns of phrase that are not the most common in the world. I think it’s something like ‘Don't get me wrong,’ which is, again, not the least common thing in the world ‘Don't get me wrong,’ but not one that you would predict would be in something serious and formal perhaps as an op-ed piece in The Times. But does that help us find the person? I don't know. If we look at our 10 or 15 subjects — not to call them suspects — and find that one of them always uses ‘Don't get me wrong,’ has that advanced the ball? I have no idea. This is an anonymous letter and we always have to assume masking and masquerade. These are low hanging fruit. If you wanted to, well, I think I read something in May how people were leaking things out of the Trump White House were purposefully using phraseology that they borrowed from their workmates to muddy the water. So who knows whether this is muddying the water or whether this is actually the way this person typically would speak.

HM: What kinds of things do you imagine the White House is doing right now to help find the writer perhaps to prepare the way for someone like you to do more analytical work?

RL: Well, whenever I do investigations the people I'm doing the investigation with have to do a lot of spadework of course. Say you get a death threat and the death threat is that much more scary because the person said ‘I know you take the 602 Subway and you always sit in the second the last car.’ Now that's scary. So the question now is: Who knows or who could know that that person always takes that subway? So that's how you really reduce suspect pools.

HM: Right. The fact that the person said there were early whispers of invoking the 25th Amendment, is that a central clue?

RL: Sure. It's much horseshit that it seems. Would that it we're simply ‘It's lodestar, okay case closed, it's Mike Pence.’ Smoking guns are very, very often confuse the issue. They’re low hanging fruit. Typically we would do analysis of things that are less consciously put in — punctuation, maybe a rhetorical structure. Does the person group things in threes? Does the person group things in two? This usually passes beyond the conscious manipulation of somebody who is masking or masquerading.

HM: If I got a document that's used the term ‘low hanging fruit’ I would think it was you.

[LAUGHTER]

RL: Pretty good. That's good.

HM: I guess in the end the question is how likely you think it is that the White House is going to get to the bottom of who wrote this op-ed and how quickly?

RL: I'm pretty sure that eventually this person will out. I mean, I don't think you go to New York Times and write an op-ed like that that if you don't expect at some point in the rest of your life to be revealed.

HM: All right Mr. Leonard, I really appreciate you sharing some of your expertise with us. Thank you very much.

RL: Yes very good talking to you too. Take care.

HM: Bye bye. You too.

JD: Bye Robert Leonard is a forensic linguist and a professor of linguistics at Hofstra University. We reached him in Hempstead, New York.

[Music: Trance Bass]

Perfect Bubble

JD: Remember those summer days when you would make magic with nothing more than water and a little dish soap? You'd run barefoot through the grass and you're cut offs watching the bubbles you'd blown drifting lazily through the air. And looking back now you feel a wistful yearning for those carefree afternoons and you think ‘Was I ever so young? Was I ever so stupid? Sorry. I mean, yes, it's a sweet memory and a joy to recall et cetera et cetera et cetera. But can you even call it bubble blowing when you really just grab some little plastic thing without measuring its diameter and you puffed childishly into it without measuring your breath velocity? Could you call that bubble blowing? Now that we're grown up, of course, we are much more adult about manufacturing bubbles that meet strict standards of excellence. Thus all this recent bubble research comes in handy. In the latest example published in Physical Review Letters, researchers from New York University's Applied Math Labs have determined the ideal conditions for the creation of the ideal bubble. Take this down. For a perfect bubble you must have a circular wand with a perimeter of 3.81 centimetres — that is 3.81. And then to inflate your bubble to perfection you must apply a steady breath speed of 6.9 centimetres per second. Not 6.8, not 7 — 6.9. So go off to your hermetically sealed bubble studio, delicately crafted new bubble warned, turn on your breathspeed-o-meter and painstakingly execute the perfect bubble. Unless, of course, you are some kind of amateur who cares more about joy than being perfect. In which case, I guess, just get some dish soap and water and go to a park. If you want to be immature about it.

September 6, 2018 episode transcript

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