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The AIH Transcript for February 18, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Surface tension. After a stressful descent, NASA's Perseverance Rover has landed on Mars. An astrobiologist who's part of the mission, tells us why she welled up when it touched down.

CH: Sexual repression. Death threats forced a Jamaican gay rights activist to flee his homeland for Canada. And now a human rights tribunal has called on Jamaica to repeal its homophobic laws.

CO: Against the law. Almost a year after a young Black man was fatally shot while jogging in Georgia, the state is poised to change the civil war era citizen's arrest law that almost saw his accused killers go free.

CH: Chilly reception. Texan Legislators are promising to tackle the state's current energy crisis. But many of their constituents say they are a big part of the problem. Tonight, we'll talk to one who is promising change.

CO: Shell shock. Frigid temperatures in Texas left thousands of sea turtles stunned by the cold and facing death until a community that was suffering itself got together to save them.

CH: And a whole other stool of thought. Its excrement is excellent, but after we said the fecally fecund sea cucumber was not cute, a young listener crafted a passionate defence of what he considers a bottom dwelling beauty. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that no longer feels sorry for the poo-er thing.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: 'This has been a statewide debacle': Texas lawmaker calls for action after prolonged blackout

Rover Landing

Guest: Amy Williams

VOICE: [SOUNDCLIP: Touchdown confirmed here! Perseverance safely on the surface of Mars. Ready to begin seeking the sands of past life. (Crowd cheering in background)]

CH: That's what it sounded like inside mission control this afternoon after NASA's Perseverance Rover successfully landed on Mars. The moment of jubilation came after a nail-biting, stress-inducing descent dubbed the "seven minutes of terror" that had people around the world glued to live streams. Amy Williams was watching very closely. She's an astrobiologist at the University of Florida and a participating scientist on the Perseverance Rover project. We reached her in Gainesville, Florida.

CO: Amy, that goosebump moment that we just heard, how are you responding?

AMY WILLIAMS: Carol, I'm honestly still getting tears out of my eyes. I am so excited. I still have this nervous energy. And I'm just so impressed. Every time we are able to accomplish such an extraordinary feat, I'm just impressed with what humankind is able to do.

CO: So seven months, 470-million kilometres to get there. And yet the talk was all about these "seven minutes of terror," the last ones. What is that all about? What was going on there?

AW: So, Carol, it takes about seven minutes for the spacecraft to enter the Martian atmosphere, descend through it, and to land. And so it's sort of on line with having a child -- you have seven or 10 months, something like that, in order to get to the point of the arrival of this extraordinary moment. And everything comes down to that precise landing of the rover, the precise delivery of the baby. And we are just so excited that everything went to plan and the sky crane manoeuvre performed as it's supposed to. And Perseverance is now on the ground in Jezero Crater.

CO: This is one of the reasons why I love the fact that women are scientists because the analogy to birth is exactly right. And we finally have that perfect image of what that moment must have been like -- but for so many people, right. So did you have a moment -- were you braced for some disappointment because there is a very high rate of failure with these Martian landings, right?

AW: So it is very difficult to land on Mars, absolutely. In the past nine missions that NASA has run, eight of the nine have been successful. But it is certainly a high failure rate worldwide. It is very difficult to execute this type of landing. But we have had experience with the Skycrane landing system, with the Curiosity Rover on which I also serve as a scientist. And it really gave me a lot of hope that this would be successful and of course it is just massive relief when you hear "Touchdown."

CO: The key mission of Perseverance, of this mission, is to be in that crater and to see if there is signs of ancient life. So what role do you play in all of that?

AW: That's an excellent question. So I'm an astrobiologist, so my entire career is about searching for life beyond Earth and how we might recognise it. And that's one of the extraordinary goals of the Perseverance Rover to be able to look for ancient life on Mars. And we have the instrument suites in order to do that. And we also have the capability to collect samples that may one day be able to be returned to Earth so that we could confirm any preliminary findings of that scale. We can confirm that with our terrestrial labs on Earth.

CO: And it's landed in Jezero Crater. What makes you think that that might be a good place to look for ancient life?

AW: So Jezero Crater is a really unique environment. Some of the formations in the crater have told us with complete certainty that water flowed in that area in Mars' ancient past. And the structure that did in the crater is called a delta. Deltas form when water from a river flows into a lake -- and on Earth, these are perfect environments for life to take hold and to survive and thrive. These are also great environments to preserve evidence of that life. So what we're able to do with Perseverance is to search for life as we know it in a very similar geologic environment in the Jezero Delta.

CO: And so when will you be able to know that? You said that you can collect the samples, but they won't come back, right, for some time. So when will you be able to actually look at those samples?

AW: Samples will be collected with the Perseverance mission. And this is just the first stage in that Mars sample-return architecture, which is this extraordinary mission concept that NASA is working on with international partners such as ESA. We are hoping to launch in maybe 26 or 28 the subsequent missions that would go collect the samples, launch them off of Mars, and into orbit around Mars, and then bring them back to Earth. So we are looking at many many years down the road before we would have these samples in hand. This is a really grand architecture for a mission, and it also will truly revolutionise our understanding of Mars.

CO: You will be studying this as an earthling, but you're going to have to work in Martian time, right? So how is that going to change your day?

AW: Mars time has begun for us on the team here. Martian day is 24 hours and 37 minutes long. And so that means that even if you start your day along with everyone else in your time zone, eventually you move 40 minutes ahead every day. And so you're getting up at 11 p.m. and making your coffee and getting ready for your day. So it will tax you after the three months that we're on Mars time. We are on the mission right now. Everyone is swinging into the Mars time mindset. We're all going to be working at least on the east coast of North America. I'll be working into the late hours tonight. But yeah, we will all be balancing Mars time, working from home for many of us, and working with families at home as well. So this will be a unique experience, unlike my experience with Mars time on the Curiosity Rover.

CO: And will you be having a big celebration Earth time tonight?

AW: My celebration will be with my planetary science husband and our toddler at home tonight. [Laughter] When I call into the mission this evening, I'm sure there will be a lot of hooting and hollering.

CO: Oh a toddler who has his own time and probably circadian rhythms, that you will have to adjust to. [Laughs]

AW: Yes yes. So I'm living on toddler time and Mars time. So this will be a really interesting experience for me.

CO: Well, Amy, I hope you have a good evening and congratulations.

AW: Thank you so much Carol.

CH: Amy Williams is an assistant professor of geological sciences at the University of Florida and a participating scientist on NASA's Mars 2020 mission. We reached her in Gainesville, Florida.

[Music: Synth Music]

Texas: Democrat Lawmaker

Guest: Ron Reynolds

CH: Temperatures remained cold across Texas today, but tempers have been rising. Millions of residents are under boil water advisories that are hard to obey because of power outages. And in addressing reporters today, Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson expressed the frustration many are feeling with the state's Electric Reliability Council, ERCOT, and the Public Utility Commission that oversees it.

ERIC JOHNSON: We as a city are bearing the brunt. Our people are suffering right now. And we don't have control over the power grid. We rely on it, but we don't have any control over it. Those who do have control over -- our friends in Austin, the governor, the legislature, the people who oversee the PUC, the PUC which oversees ERCOT, the ERCOT which oversees the grid, that's your chain. And starting at the very top, those folks need to look at what happened and figure out who is responsible and then changes need to be made.

CH: That was Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson calling for answers from state legislators. Ron Reynolds is one of those lawmakers. He's a Democrat from Missouri City, Texas.

CO: Representative Reynolds, we just heard that people are suffering in Dallas. How are things in Missouri City where you are?

RON REYNOLDS: Things have not been well. Many of my constituents, the majority had at some point lost power, including myself, for days. And now people are suffering the impact of busted pipes due to the weather conditions. So this has been a statewide debacle that has impacted millions of Texans. And unfortunately, we've had the loss of lives as well.

CO: What we're hearing from the Dallas mayor, Eric Johnson, and from others is that it seems that this goes beyond just some problems with the grid. There are a lot of structural issues that he is asking and others are asking for you, amongst others, legislators, to address. What answers do you have for them?

RR: Well, first of all, I agree there needs to be accountability. There needs to be transparency for our citizens. ERCOT, that he mentioned, and the state did not properly winterise the state's various generation systems because unfortunately, they didn't want to spend the money. The legislature has oversight. I have the pleasure of sitting on the House Energy Resources Committee and I intend to ask those hard questions a week from today when we have our hearing that Speaker Dade Phelan, the speaker of the House, call PUC and ERCOT before the Energy Resources and State Affairs Committee to get answers.

CO: Right. PUC you mentioned is the Public Utility Commission. And ERCOT is the somewhat ironically named Electric Reliability Council of Texas [laughter].

RR: Not so reliable. [Laughter] But that is the name of it.

CO: Exactly. But I mean, I guess how you are structured in Texas, financially structured for electricity, is that people get very cheap electricity in your state. Texans enjoy that. And there's no financial incentive to work on that infrastructure that collapsed under this cold. So is this the price you pay for that cheap energy, the ultimate price?

RR: Yeah, it is partly. But also, Texas has been irresponsible when it comes to studying and adjusting to the impact of climate change. We have been climate deniers as a state. We have not looked at science. I served on the House Environmental Regulation Committee for the last 10 years -- the ranking member -- and I've been in the minority party. We have not been able to discuss the impact of climate change. So Texas has been beholden to industry and we have not done what's best for our citizens. I'm thankful to President Biden and his vision and his roll out of his executive orders to look at climate change. Unfortunately, our governor, in response to a question on Sean Hannity threw green energy under the bus, without being very truthful in talking about the failure of fossil fuels and the gas pipeline. So Texas has to have a serious conversation, and I think the citizens are going to demand it.

CO: That's a very large conversation for you to have. Before you get to that huge discussion, which has to be had, in the meantime, you have a problem -- "Houston, we have a problem," right? I mean, so how are you going to address that in the short term because this may not be an isolated event for winters in Texas?

RR: Well, here's the truth of the matter. Back in 2011, we did a deep dive and there were recommendations that were made to the Public Utility Commission to ERCOT. Well, those recommendations were not adhered to. But again, it goes back to Texas being beholden to industry -- and I'll say industry, I'm saying that all the gas industry. Texas is the energy capital of the world. And yes, it does help our economy, but we cannot do what's best for our economy to the detriment of our public health and safety. And so we have to have a balanced approach, right. We have to look at the environmental impacts, we have to look at climate change. And our elected officials cannot just make one-sided approach to appease our robust oil and gas industry. So we have to get past the partisan politics. We have to be statesmen. And we're calling upon our governor, he has made this an emergency item. I will say that Governor Abbott has responded to the public pressure. So it is an emergency item, which means that we will take this up immediately in the legislature and now we have to do just more than the rhetoric, we have to be able to implement these recommendations.

CO: We spoke with a woman last night. She is expecting real sticker shock when she gets her next bill. At this point, she doesn't care how much she'd have to pay. She would pay it just to get warm again and be able to cook some food. People want the immediate issues dealt with. What are they going to find when they get their power back on and when they start getting the bill for what this is going to cost?

RR: Well, that's something that we're going to have to do. We can't allow the citizens to bear the burden of this when it was no fault of their own. So it's unfair to the state to shift the financial burden upon our citizens when they are already suffering from the pandemic, right. So, yes, we have to do our part as a state to bear the responsibility, even if it means using our state's rainy day fund. We have to do that to help our citizens.

CO: We know that at least 30 people have been killed by this deep freeze in Texas. What do you want to say to them, to their families?

RR: Well, first of all, my heart goes out to them. My prayers and condolences are to all those families that have lost loved ones. In addition to all the families that are seniors that have insulin and other issues that have been exacerbated...I mean, my heart is broken. I mean, as a parent, as a husband, as a father, I empathise with them. These are people who are already dealing with a record number of deaths and sickness from COVID. So this is insult on top of insult. And I say to them, enough is enough. We as a state have to do better and there has to be accountability. Nothing we can do to bring back the pain that is caused by a loss of life. But we can assure our state and our citizens is that we will have a lessons learnt and we will not encounter this unfortunate situation again. We will be better prepared. That doesn't maybe bring them solace, but at least hopefully it will restore some confidence that has been eroded in our elected officials.

CO: Representative Reynolds, we'll leave it there and we'll be following developments in Texas. Thank you so much.

RR: Thank you.

CH: Ron Reynolds is a Democratic member of the Texas House of Representatives and a member of the House Committees on Energy Resources and Environmental Regulation. He's in Missouri City, Texas. For more on this story, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Texas: Turtle Rescue

Guest: Wendy Knight

CH: Despite struggling to cope themselves, a lot of people in Texas have gone out of their way to rescue freezing-cold sea turtles. Wendy Knight was the first to sound the alarm. She's the executive director of a non-profit called Sea Turtle Inc. She's on South Padre Island, Texas, near the Mexican border.

CO: Wendy at what point did you realise or think that these sea turtles might be in danger?

WENDY KNIGHT: You know, Texas has pretty predictable weather. It's a beach community here on South Padre Island, Texas. So you can expect that our weather is normally in the 80s-90s and even the 100s in the summer. So when we see winter weather coming, we know and watch it closely. So luckily, we had a few days to prepare. We certainly did not prepare for the extent and the number of turtles impacted, but we saw the weather coming.

CO: You might have been better prepared to take the turtles than your state was to take care of its people.

WK: This is true. This is historic -- the largest cold-stunned event that has ever happened in the recorded history of cold-stunned events. And we not only are breaking records in that aspect, but we've managed to do it without power or water or electricity since Sunday at 2:00 a.m..

CO: Where did you find the turtles that were in trouble?

WK: So South Padre Island is actually a nesting beach for sea turtles. They are on the federal protected endangered species list. They're at risk of extinction. So a big part of our mission as a non-profit at Sea Turtle Inc is the education of the community, the responsibility we have to sea turtles. So the residents here in the community of South Padre Island are highly, keenly aware of the sea turtle. And we train them every year to prepare for cold-stunned -- hundreds of people in the Rio Grande Valley are trained. So we we were ready and they went out in boats and on land with nets and anything else they can find and they brought them to us.

CO: And what kind of shape were those turtles in when you got them?

WK: The first couple of days, they were, as we expected, in a cold-stunned. It's exactly what it sounds like. They're almost comatose. What you would consider to be comatose for a person, a human. The third day, and as the weather stretched into the fourth day, they got much more severe. The bigger the turtle is, the harder and longer it takes for the cold-stunned to happen. So day three and four, we started getting really big turtles and we actually have a loggerhead that's more than 400 pounds and over 150 years old. That is cold stuff that's sitting on the floor of the convention centre in South Padre Island.

CO: All right. Before we get them to the convention centre, they were all taken to your facility, right? Then what happened?

WK: They were. We have a main campus where a non-profit exists and we were able to pile about 525 of them here. But certainly not 4,700. So we quickly ran out of room. And after doing the best we could hear, the South Padre Island Convention and Visitors Bureau graciously offered us the opportunity to bring our turtles to them.

CO: But you lost lights and heat in your facility as well, didn't you?

WK: Yes. So that's really been a critical component. The cold-stunned turtles, the way to treat them is the first thing you do is what's called dry-dock. So you take them out of the water because if they're in the water, they'll drown. So we were okay for the first few days with the cold-stunned turtles because it's good for them to be out of the water and to gradually warm up. But our core mission is rehabilitation of sea turtles here on South Padre Island. So we had a full hospital. 38 patients already in our hospital that were injured or surgical patients that we were treating. Those were at critical risk because of the lack of power and the lack of hot water or warm water.

CO: And so at what point then did the city's convention centre offer you accommodation for the sea turtles?

WK: So they did that almost immediately. I reached out and without hesitation, they said yes.

CO: All right. How many sea turtles are now in the convention centre?

WK: We have a 525 five here on the main education campus, and an additional 4,200-and-some-change in the convention centre.

CO: Good heavens! Can you just describe what that looks like?

WK: Imagine two football fields put together and turtles toe-to-tip everywhere you can step.

CO: And will they survive?

WK: You know it is too early to know. The cold-stunned process -- especially, the bigger you are, the longer it takes to cold-stun and the longer it takes to come out of it. So I think by the middle of next week we'll have a much better idea as to what we're dealing with in totality on mortality versus success rate.

CO: Do you have plans for what to do in the future to protect the turtles?

WK: We do. Our new facility was supposed to be built last year, our new hospital. And COVID, we all know the impact that 2020 had. And we had to delay that. So fundraising around that is really dedicated to a cold-stunned room that's dedicated, a generated standalone facility where we're not beholden to anyone other than ourselves to make sure we have adequate care and adequate facilities to treat these turtles. So this has been a real eye-opener to the urgency in getting that hospital in place and having it available before the next cold-stunned season.

CO: Well, I nominate you and your people to be in charge of the emergency response for Texans.

WK: I would appreciate the opportunity. I have a couple of ideas.

CO: [Chuckles] I think you do. Wendy, it's great to talk to you, and I'm glad that turtles are okay.

WK: Thank you so much for having me and bringing attention to such an important cause.

CH: Wendy Knight is the executive director of Sea Turtle Inc. She spoke to us from South Padre Island, Texas.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Cute Sea Cucumbers

CH: It's not an actual cucumber, but one listener feels strongly that it's cool regardless. On Monday, we told you about new research that tracked the comings and goings, mostly the goings, of sea cucumbers -- which it turns out pump out a miraculous amount of poop. Poop that performs some ecological magic that helps other reef-dwellers thrive. But 11 year old Henry Bock of Winnipeg, Manitoba, took issue with our coverage because along with fetting the sea cucumbers faeces, we also vigorously implied that these fleshy, faceless, tube animals nicknamed 'Walking Colons' are not cute. Henry writes, "If you think sea cucumbers aren't cute, then you're wrong. Hi, I'm Henry. And I'm going to give you some reasons about why sea cucumbers are cute. One, they have tiny feet. Two, they can switch their face with their bum. Three, some of them look like pigs. Some of them resemble headless chicken monsters. In addition, they help coral reefs and house pearlfish." Well Henry, your passion is commendable. And while I'm not totally sure the bum-face switching thing makes them cuter, it does add a certain panache. And I have seen a video of the way they house pearlfish in their bums, but it left me a bit unsettled, as did learning that some kinds of sea cucumbers projectile poop their own organs as a form of defence. Creative? Yes, absolutely. Cute? Henry, you made a great case, but I'm still not sure, because with sea cucumbers, maybe more than most, it's what's inside that counts.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Part 2: After fleeing to Canada, activist helps secure victory for LGBTQ rights in Jamaica

Jamaican LGBT Laws

Guest: Gareth Henry

CH: It has been nearly 10 years since Gareth Henry filed a petition to challenge homophobic laws in Jamaica where he was born. And now the results of his case have finally been made public. The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has found that the rights of Mr. Henry and another petitioner were violated. And the commission says that Jamaica should repeal laws that criminalise consensual sexual conduct between men. The 2019 ruling is now being made public, but Mr. Henry fled Jamaica for Canada more than a decade ago. He had been targeted and attacked for being gay. We reached Gareth Henry in Christchurch, Barbados.

CO: Gareth, what does it mean to you to have this human rights decision finally made public?

GARETH HENRY: It means a whole lot to me. I'm happy. It's a ray of hope for myself and for many LGBTQ folks in Jamaica and possibly across the Caribbean. Because finally, there is an international body that is challenging the Jamaican government and seeking to hold them accountable for all the human rights violations against LGBT folks.

CO: And the call in this Human Rights Commission is for certain laws to be repealed, struck from the book in Jamaica. Can you tell us what those laws are?

GH: Yeah. It is the anti-sodomy laws which are criminalised sex between two consenting males, imprisonment for up to 10 years. And so whilst we know that the laws are not necessarily being enforced, the fact that they exist allows for Jamaicans and even the state also to demonstrate hate towards the LGBT community -- chase people through the streets, beat them, kill them because of their sexual orientation. I do know that laws removing a law from the book does not change people's behaviour. But what it does is it creates a platform to hold people accountable and also our government accountable to be able to protect all the citizens.

CO: You fled to Canada in 2008 after a horrible ordeal you went through. Can you tell us how you were targeted as a gay man in Jamaica?

GH: Yeah. So in 2004, after the brutal murder of Brian Williams, who was the former lead for the Jamaica Forum for Lesbians, All-Sexuals, and Gays (J-FLAG), and I took over the leadership of the organisation at that point in time. Naive I was then, but wanted to do something for my community. And taking on that responsibility changed the course of my life forever. I immediately became a target of violence at the hands of the state, of the police. And I'm always said to folks, the issues I've had has never been with my neighbour or my landlord or my employer, the issues that I've experienced have always been at the hands of the police. I would wake up in the mornings and I would see a police officer pointing a gun at my apartment window, telling me that I need to move. I have been physically assaulted by police officers twice. And the last incident, though, happened on February 14, 2007 -- I was beaten in a pharmacy in front of over 300 people and left on the floor. Another police officer left me on the floor after they used their guns and hit me in the head and in the abdomen. And they just left me right there. And there is an angry mob is rioting outside saying to the police officers, "Let us in. Let me kill them. Let us in." I said I was caught in this quadrant with two other gay guys. When they were assaulting me, they said to me -- I remember explicitly -- they said to me, "We know who you are. We know who you are." And I went into hiding between February 14 until the first week in November. I had to go to the office to help provide some support to some gay men. And I left home very early in the morning, about six o'clock. And I got caught in the stoplight in traffic and a police officer walked over to my car and said to me, "We found you and we're going to kill you." And when that happened that morning, I didn't go back home. I immediately booked a ticket and went to the US to spend some time with some friends, went back to Jamaica, and then subsequently made that tough decision to relocate and live and seek asylum on refugee protection in Canada.

CO: And you have been granted asylum in Canada?

GH: Yes. Yeah, I was granted asylum in Canada. My my mother, who is a heterosexual woman, had to pack her bags four months after I left Jamaica, because now that my claim was in the public domain, people started to target her because she is the supportive mother of a gay son. I'm also a gay rights activist who is saying all these bad things about Jamaica. And again, thanks to the Canadian government, she was granted conventional refugee protection. And when I filed my petition in 2012 at the Inter-American Commission, again, it was in the public domain. And the unfortunate thing happened again, my sister and my two nieces became a target of violence and had to leave. My sister and my two nieces relocated to Canada and were also granted congressional refugee protection.

CO: All the things that have happened to you and to your family, in addition to which -- as you were head of that organisation, the Jamaica Forum for Lesbians, All-sexuals and Gays. You buried friends. There were more than a dozen people who were killed.

GH: 13. 13 of my personal friends were brutally murdered over four years. It's one thing to grieve once for a loved one, but to do that in four years 13 times -- people who you know, people who you shared thoughts with, who you shared a moment with, just taken away because they're deemed to be different because they're gay, because they're bisexual or they're trans or they're lesbian. And I've watched my friends being beaten, chased through the streets of Montego Bay, Jamaica, chased through the streets -- and all I could stand and wish for to say, I hope he makes it. I hope he escapes. When we filed this petition, I've been told that we put in a bad light on Jamaica because what we're saying is untrue. But we have the experiences, it's documented. It is there. I have of my medical report for when I was beaten by the police officers. When I went to the police station the very night with my medical note to say to them, "This is what happened just now, about less than about 500 feet or metres away from the police station," the incident happened on Valentine's Day and they said they don't know what I'm talking about because no police officer would do that. And I said, "Did I inflict these wounds to myself and for what cause?" They said, I don't know.

CO: So this Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has said that these laws, the treatment of of gay and lesbian people in Jamaica is wrong. These laws that criminalise consensual sex between people is wrong. But is it binding? Will it change or lead to anything of change in Jamaica?

GH: Yeah, it's not binding because there are strong recommendations that are being made. But the thing is that now that this is coming from an international human rights body -- and in Jamaica signs on all of these kind of international treaties, that kind of stuff -- I think it is an opportune time for Jamaica to be called into question. And I would love to see what the Jamaican government response is going to be. I'm cautiously optimistic about this whole stuff. It's an emotional roller coaster for myself and hundreds of queer folks who are in Jamaica.

CO: Just finally, Gareth, do you hope that one day you can go back to Jamaica and live there?

GH: No. It has never crossed my thought. I will never return to live in Jamaica. The experiences that I have had are more than enough for me to call Canada my new home, where -- I'm not saying homophobia does not exist here and transphobia, it exists. Quite a few members of LGBT community still experience that violence and hatred here in Canada. So we are not immune from that. But at least at minimum, our rights are being protected. We do not have these sodomy laws in the books. I do not have to walk the streets consistently been anxious, wanting to know who the person is behind me, right. I can go to bed at night and not worry that someone's going to break my door down and come in and beat me. I'm not worried while going on a street that a mob will suddenly start chasing me through the streets of Toronto, calling me gay and wanting to kill me, right. So going back to Jamaica? I wouldn't. The trauma that I have experienced and continue to experience -- I've not dealt with it in its entirety. And to go back to live there...I don't know. I've never given any thoughts of it. And it is a piece that I would not even want to entertain that thought. I said, no matter or what, if I was able to be paid to go back to live and given all the luxuries that could possibly exist, I wouldn't.

CO: Gareth, I am glad that you found refuge here in Canada, you and your family. And I appreciate you telling us this story today. Thank you.

GH: Thank you.

CH: That was Gareth Henry talking about a recently released ruling by the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. He's the executive director of the Black Coalition for HIV/AIDS in Toronto. We reached him in Christchurch, Barbados. And you can find more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Calm Music]

Popcorn

CH: Francois Legault doesn't like to make concessions about concessions. Yesterday, the Quebec premier was put on the spot by the Montreal movie theatre mogul Vincenzo Guzzo. Yesterday, Mr. Guzzo came on As It Happens to shoot down Premier Legault's plan to reopen cinemas in time for the school break later this month. Mr. Guzzo said that wasn't going to happen because the premier wasn't going to let himself snacks. And without popcorn profits, he can't afford to turn on the flickering lights. Well, this morning, Premier Legault told a press conference that Mr. Guzzo would be eligible for a program that allows restaurants to be compensated for lost food and drink sales, at least up to a point. And that prompted this question from CTV Quebec City's Maya Johnson.

MAYA JOHNSON: Are you surprised by the the amount of backlash over popcorn? [People laugh in background]

FRANCOIS LEGAULT: Did I expect a popcorn gate in Quebec? If you would have told me that a few months ago, I wouldn't have believed it. But Mr. Guzzo is very present on Twitter. He's not very nice talking about me, but I can understand that part of the profit for the movie theatres is coming from popcorn. So we want to open movie theatres for the school break, the march break, for the children. And Mr. Guzzo said that he doesn't want to open movie theatres -- and he has many in Quebec -- if we don't permit him to sell popcorn. And the public health is telling us that -- and that's why we don't open the restaurants -- if you want people to keep the mask during all the movie, then of course you cannot sell popcorn. So what can I say?

REPORTER: I have one last question about...

FRANCOIS LEGAULT: I will help him. I hope he'll be happy. We will compensate him for...

REPORTER: The program already exists. You're just telling him that there is a program for you, you can be compensated? You're not telling him that he's right about this point of selling popcorn?

FRANCOIS LEGAULT: I'm saying it's normal if you make a lot of profit with popcorn and I don't permit you to sell popcorn that I compensate you.

CH: That was Quebec Premier Francois Lago speaking to reporters in Quebec City today. But Vincenzo Guzzo isn't holding his breath. Mr. Guzzo says he's waiting to see whether the premier's promised compensation will actually cover his popcorn losses.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Georgia Citizen's Arrest Law

Guest: Carl Gilliard

CH: It's been almost a year since the fatal shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery. And now his state is making legal changes aimed at preventing a similar attack from happening again. Mr. Arbery, a young Black man, was jogging in his neighbourhood in Georgia when he was chased and shot at by two White men. The men were arrested, but initially released by the local district attorney. He said they were justified in using deadly force under the state's citizen's arrest law. Now Georgia's governor is throwing his support behind a plan to reform that law. Mr. Arbery's mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, told the local CBS affiliate that the law is rooted in racism.

WANDA COOPER-JONES: I would have to say that it was implemented because this is a civil war -- this is the time there it was prejudice, it was racism, but without measures. And I'm thinking that it was put in place just for people that looked like me. Unfortunately, we lost Ahmaud. But Ahmaud is implementing change.

CH: Wanda Cooper-Jones, the mother of Ahmaud Arbery in an exclusive interview WJXT in Georgia. Carl Gilliard is a Democratic state representative. We reached him in Atlanta, Georgia.

CO: Representative Gilliard, we just heard Ahmaud Arbery's mother there talking about this citizen's arrest, this law as being racist. How do you see the law?

CARL GILLIARD: Ms. Cooper is absolutely right. This law was conceived from a gentleman by the name of Thomas R. Cobb. And Thomas R. Cobb actually wrote a doctrine on how to form the Ku Klux Klan. He also wrote a doctrine on how to lynch Black folk. Prior to reconstruction or prior to the war ending, and he ended up passing away in battle, he was a politician and also he was in the service and he died in 1862. Fast forward 1863, the state of Georgia adopts the doctrine and writes the citizen arrest law. And so it was a law technically that gave people the right to be judge and jury, a law that also gave people the right to lynch people of colour. Inside that original bill, it had a clause that gave someone the right to detain someone for up to 48 hours. And you can imagine what could happen in 1863 to a person of colour being held for 48 hours.

CO: So what justification has there been for this law continuing to be on the books in Georgia?

CG: Well, that's the case. When I first got elected, I always tried to look up different laws to see what was the statute. It's bad. It took the level of Ahmaud Arbery tragic murder for the excuse to be used by the accused that it was a citizen's arrest. I saw people marching all over the world from Breonna Taylor's tragedy to George Floyd, and unfortunately, with Ahmaud Arbery. And just a couple of miles away from where I live in Savannah, Georgia, is Glynn County. And when I got the call about the tragedy, I thought it was very suspicious that a young man would be in his own community and not have the right to just dwell and be suspect and to be hunted down like a dog and killed. As a lawmaker, I believe that we have the power of the pen to do something. And so I heard people saying that we need to do something. I wrote the initial bill and the focus was just to repeal the law. The law was antiquated and outdated.

CO: When you mentioned that the two men who fatally wounded Ahmaud Arbery, they were using this defence that they were doing a citizen's arrest at the time that they killed him. At the same time that the local district attorney, George Barnhill, he was arguing the same thing. He let them go because of the claim that they were doing a citizen's arrest under this law and also that they had used deadly force only in self-defence. So it went beyond just these two men, didn't it?

CG: It did. And they had been having trouble in Glynn County before that. Matter of fact, one of our legislators put together a bill that was dealing with the local law enforcement and the DA before all of this happened. So we live in a world now where we're not seeing Jim Crow. We're seeing Jim Crow Esquire. It's just a tragedy that this young man's life was taken away. And not only that, there's several other incidents in Georgia that we don't hear about, where a lady was basically in traffic and a gentleman just hit her in a regular accident. She gets out and gets in a car and tracks the gentleman down because he left the scene of the crime. She plays cops and robbers. And then when she finds them, she entraps him, pulls out a pistol, and shoots and kills him. And she says citizen's arrest. The problem with the law of yesteryear is people can become judge and jury. What I wanted to see is let's call in a professional -- there's a three digit professional called 911. And you call on the officials to let them properly handle what we suspect. And so I'm glad that we're moving this old, antiquated law to where Georgia needs to be in reference to justice.

CO: Ahmaud Arbery's mother mentioned in that clip that she feels that her son did not die in vain because the law is being changed. But you mentioned there are all these other cases as well. This has been going on for a long time. In general, is there a mood, is there an atmosphere in Georgia, in the United States right now to address these kinds of laws in your state and in your country?

CG: I'm on a very thick mission. I'll tell you this -- I was doing The Daily Show one day and I talked about this last year and a gentleman by the name of Senator Michael Gianaris, who is the senator from New York, he is the deputy majority leader in New York, called me up and said, "I saw you on the show." He looked at the laws in New York, which were outdated and antiquated too. And just this week, he's dropping a bill to repeal the law in New York. Representative Wendell Gilliard is repealing the law with a bill in South Carolina. We have submitted our work to the Geneva Convention to put a referendum on the citizen arrest law. The Georgia Municipal Association has 159 counties -- their policy committee endorsed the repeal -- the Urban League, the Georgia state NAACP, the ACL. Several cities already we've asked for resolutions from the city of Atlanta, Brunswick, Georgia and South Fulton. So there is a movement across the nation that other states need to look at their laws and see if they're outdated and antiquated, like we had the law of 1863.

CO: But you have been trying -- you have been agitating for these changes for some time. And you propose these changes right after Ahmaud Arbery was killed. Has it taken the fact that the governor, Brian Kemp, the Republican governor in Georgia, has thrown his weight behind it? Is that the deciding factor and other Republicans as well, do you think that that is what will actually bring this change?

CG: Well, the original bill that we had, I had bipartisan support. We had Republicans and Democrats. There is a Republican representative from Glynn County by the name of Don Hogan, who I do to give a lot of credit to. When all of this happened, he worked with a lot of the NAACP and community leaders, and that's the way it should be done -- surpassing party. The governor, I think, of Georgia had no other alternative but to listen to the cries of the people. You know, you got to keep in mind, we were at an event called Crossover Day at the Georgia State Capital when all of our bill was just a point of the session. After being in session for so many days, all our bills get a chance to cross over. And that night there was a protest outside of the Capitol and I saw hundreds of young people. And their voice was that we want justice. And so we hear the cries of the people saying we want justice. And we as lawmakers, if we don't get off of our posteriors and hear the cries of the people, then why are we in position? So I think the governor had no other alternative but to hear the people and the cries. People want change in reference to this bill. And this is just one in a series of justice bills that need to be repealed.

CO: We will leave it there. Representative Gilliard, thank you.

CG: Thank you so much for the opportunity.

CH: Carl Gilliard is a Democratic state representative in Georgia. He was in Atlanta.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Celebratory Run

CH: Two Vancouver friends are marking an unusual anniversary in an unusual way. Well, the celebration was just sort of unusual -- they did a 5-kilometre run together. But the anniversary is very unusual. In 2018, Vancouver minor hockey coach Stephen Gillis learnt that he needed a kidney transplant. His hockey team put out a video plea for donors. And an old friend named Michael Teigen stepped up. A successful transplant surgery was performed a year ago today. Here are the two men talking about that experience before hitting the pavement for their celebratory run. Starting with Mr. Teigen.

MICHAEL TEIGEN: To me, it didn't seem like a big major decision. It just seemed like a natural fit. I saw the video that the hockey kids put out. The three of us that were hanging in the apartment, we just said, "Okay let's get to work." And we filled out the forms. And it just seemed like a natural, easy peasy thing to do. So I just kept going and ended up doing it.

STEPHEN QUINN: And what was the process like? You say it was easy -- what did you have to go through?

MICHAEL TEIGEN: Well, I mean, the process for getting tested, there were some things to go through. Lots and lots of blood work, nuclear medicine, tuberculosis tests. So that wasn't easy. And it's something that I've never experienced before, never been in hospital or anything like that. But I just mean the mental sort of aspect that you're going to donate your kidney, you're going to major elective surgery, but that's sort of thought processing and the mental state was easy and a natural fit for me.

STEPHEN QUINN: And no second thoughts at all about having the surgery?

MICHAEL TEIGEN: Not one second.

STEPHEN QUINN: Okay. None at all. And Stephen, I want to take you back to the day that you discovered that Michael was a match. We're going to play a little audio here from a video that actually captured that moment.

MICHAEL TEIGEN: [PLAYS CLIP] I'm going to give you my kidney.

STEPHEN GILLIS: What?

MICHAEL TEIGEN: Yeah!

STEPHEN GILLIS: Oh crazy. You're a match? Like same blood type?

MICHAEL TEIGEN: You know I've gone through everything -- gone through everything for two months.

STEPHEN GILLIS: What?!

VOICE: He is a match.

MICHAEL TEIGEN: I'm it. I'm the one.

STEPHEN GILLIS: What?! For real?! [CLIP ENDS]

STEPHEN QUINN: Steven, what goes through your mind when you hear that again?

STEPHEN GILLIS: The reaction by one YouTuber that said when the video was put up, "Worst reaction ever?" [Laughter] Because at first I didn't believe him. Then once I realised it like, "Oh, my God, this worked." And Michael, of all people, is going to be the hero for me, it was just dumbfounding and still some days hard to understand.

STEPHEN QUINN: It's pretty great to hear it, though. And it's been a year now since your surgery. How are you doing?

STEPHEN GILLIS: I'm doing great -- again, thanks to Michael. I feel amazing of doing this run today. It is a huge thing and it came from me being very glib and I think on television in one of the interviews saying "Oh we'll run a 5k" [laughs] and I don't run at all. So to be able to do this today and 30-40 pounds heavier in really good health, it really is a miracle.

CH: They were Stephen Gillis and before him, Michael Teigen speaking with Stephen Quinn, host of CBC Vancouver's Early Edition. One year ago, Mr. Teigen donated his kidney to Mr. Gillis. The men marked the year anniversary of the transplant surgery with a 5k run.

[Music: Calm Music]

Part 3: Lesbos Contaminated Camp

Lesbos Contaminated Camp

Guest: Manos Kalaintzis

CH: Five months ago, the Moria refugee camp on Lesbos in Greece went up in flames -- that left the thousands of asylum seekers living at the overcrowded and dangerous site without anywhere to go. So the Greek government moved them to a camp at a former military base. But the new site has problems as well, and one of them in particular is raising alarm amongst the NGOs that work there. The base used to house a firing range, and they're worried that the soil may be contaminated with lead. Manos Kalaintzis is a Greek lawyer who has advocated for asylum seekers in the past. He has several family members who worked at the new camp. We reached him in Mytilene on the island of Lesbos.

CO: Manos when you first learnt that the asylum seekers on Lesbos would be moved to this former military site, what did you think?

MANOS KALAINTZIS: Well, to be honest, I was alarmed because this abandoned firing site of the military was not a proper location. Well, the circumstances under which the transfer was made, of course, were a bit hectic in the sense that people were on the streets, they were literally homeless. And the Greek government was struggling with local authorities to find a middle ground. Definitely, it's not an ideal site.

CO: And at the time after the fire, we covered the story of what was going on there. And we were talking to people who were going through the streets, finding people on the sides of roads who were trying to survive. So they had to get someplace quick. So why did the Greek authorities choose this place, Mavrovouni?

MK: Well, there was disagreement with the local authorities that were opposing the opening of a new camp. Indeed, they were trying to advocate for the closure of the old one before it was burned to the ground. So they were very reluctant to provide a new site for that operation. So what was found as a solution is that this site, which belongs to the Greek military, was chosen for that regard in order to circumvent any authorisation that would cause delays. But definitely because it was built overnight, no assessment in terms of health and security or any environmental impact were made on the ground.

CO: Right. A whole bunch of problems that you can tell us about this site. First and foremost, tell us about the lead levels in the soil. What do we know about that?

MK: Well, the thing is that what we know so far is what the Greek government has provided us with. In the beginning, they were very reluctant to conduct any tests after the Human Rights Watch launched the story in November. After that, they announced that they were going to do some sample taking and tested along with the agencies.

CO: But this is after people were settled there?

MK: Yes, of course, this is well after people were settled there. So this letter came out that after the pressure the Greek government gave away and did some sample testing. Indeed, they announced that they will take 12 samples. 10 came negative, meaning that they were within the permissible levels at international standards. And 2 were above that. But still they were characterised by the Greek government as acceptable.

CO: And so why are you concerned about the lead levels? Do you know anything think otherwise than that?

MK: The thing is that the conditions under which testing was conducted were not very transparent. At the beginning, the Greek government was not very willing to publicise the full report. And after it did, there were a few concerns raised in the sense that this area of the country is a very vast area. So one can challenge the methodology. 12 samples might not be enough and it's not very sure where they were taken from and how they were tested. So there needs to be independent test to verify the results.

CO: Right. And many people probably know that lead is dangerous for children, for pregnant women, for the unborn babies to be exposed to lead can cause brain damage and other health problems. So these areas where you suspect there is lead, are there children playing there? Are there families?

MK: Well, the Greek government has claimed that it has taken a few safeguard measures, meaning it has done everything possible to seal with extra material. But the thing is, according to the NGO workers that even sometimes have been moved, the space has been used as a playing field for children. It has been very close to the residential area, and the area where the administration and the facilities and the NGO workers are. So definitely the danger is imminent. But the human organism takes sometimes to be verifiable through blood tests. Therefore, the Greek government is reluctant to do anything further to safeguard the safety of the people there.

CO: Because unlike if there's water contamination, you can see the results very quickly. But we won't see the effects of potential lead poisoning for some years to come.

MK: Exactly.

CO: The people who are there have been through a lot, right? I mean, these are people who cross the Mediterranean. They lost loved ones in those trips. They were in the Moria camp that burned down. They've lived on the side of the road. And now they're in the site. That in general, are there other concerns besides the lead that makes this an unsuitable place for these people to be?

MK: To be fairly honest, lead would be the least of the concerns for those people. This site is very exposed to extreme weather conditions. At the moment, they were experiencing subzero temperatures in some areas of the island -- even snow, heavy rain, which means that the place has flooded. There are many children living without any heating or at least proper coverage. So definitely there are many more concerns than led at the moment there.

CO: And just finally, I know members of your own family are working there in some of the places where, I think, the high levels of lead are, where those NGOs are. Are you worried about them?

MK: Of course, definitely. And NGOs are worried about their workers and we are members of the family and many locals that are working there, but also for people, for asylum seekers that do not really understand and comprehend the danger and have been under very precarious situations. It has been said before, even during the summertime, that there needs to be something done immediately before winter comes. But now we're seeing those people are literally helpless.

CO: Manos we will continue to follow the plight of these refugees in Lesbos. I appreciate you bringing us up to date. Thank you.

MK: Thank you very much.

CH: Manos Kalaintzis this is a Greek lawyer. He was an Mytilene on the island of Lesbos.

[Music: Calm Music]

Bernard Lown

CH: He worked on other people's hearts, but he followed his own. Dr. Bernard Lown was an inventive heart doctor who developed the first effective defibrillator. But Dr. Lown was equally known for his anti-war activism. In the early 80s, he collaborated with a Russian doctor to co-found International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, or IPPNW -- a global group of medical professionals working towards the common goal of creating a more peaceful and secure world, free from the threat of nuclear annihilation. The renowned American cardiologist died on Tuesday. He was 99. In 1985, the IPPNW, represented by Dr. Lown and his Russian counterpart, Yevgeny Chazov won the Nobel Peace Prize. Here's Dr. Bernard Lown, speaking with the CBC in 1985 about how he heard the news.

BERNARD LOWN: Standing outside of the press conference room was someone who says, "Dr. Lown, may I make a comment?" I say, "Good or bad?" He said, "You'll soon learn." And he made a comment and suddenly all hell broke loose. There were more correspondents than I have ever seen. Where they came from, I don't know.

STUART MCLEAN: The announcement caught a lot of people by surprise. I mean, frankly, the betting was heavy on Bob Geldof, the rock singer who organised the Live Aid concert. Do you think the committee's choice in giving your organisation the Nobel Prize was a calculated decision? Do you think they did it for a reason?

BERNARD LOWN: Yes, and they say so in the Nobel Award that they believe that a signal has to be given to the forthcoming negotiations in Geneva, and especially for doctors who have founded an organisation based on trust and cooperation between the two contending superpowers.

STUART MCLEAN: Tell me about how you started that organization.

BERNARD LOWN: Well, it started with my writing a letter to Dr. Chazov. And the reason I wrote to him is we are both heart specialists. And we had worked together for 15 years on heart disease. And we had worked together on the issue of sudden cardiac death, the leading cause of death in every technically developed country -- in the United States, it claims a life every 90 seconds somebody drops dead. And suddenly I realised that what we all face is not sudden death from heart disease, but sudden nuclear death. And I wrote to Chazov that. I said, "Look, let's get together, because whenever I talk about this issue to Americans, they say, what about the Russians? We can't trust the Russians."

STUART MCLEAN: So you wrote to Soviet Union?

BERNARD LOWN: So I wrote to Chazov. And then I went to Moscow in April of 1980, and I talked to him about it and argued with him. And he was persuaded on the principle. He said, don't bother me, I'm too busy. I'm the head doctor here, I take care of Brezhnev -- I do this and I do that and I do that, 100 tasks. And I was so disappointed because it was clear that he wasn't getting involved. Next morning came, he said, "Let's get to work." And ask them what happened. He says he went home and he told his doctor that a crazy American told him he wasn't working hard enough. So his daughter says, "Daddy, if you work any harder, you'll drop dead. This American is really crazy." She said, "What did he say?" He explained. And she thought for a while and she says, "Father, the crazy American was right. You have a grandchild and you better do something about it."

CH: That was Dr. Bernard Lown speaking with Stuart McLean on CBC's Morning Side in 1985 about winning that year's Nobel Peace Prize for cofounding the group International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War. Dr. Lown died on Tuesday at the age of 99.

[Music: Calm Music]

Brexit Silk Manufacturer

Guest: Mike Bennett

CH: In the UK this week, a government MP introduced a plan to let businesses cash in on cutting out all of that EU red tape. The MP calls it the, "Brexit dividend." But in Mike Bennett's line of work, that dividend is turning into a significant deficit. Mr. Bennett is the director of Bennett Silks. The company produces high-end fabrics for fashion and for showbiz, and it's been operating outside of Manchester, England, for generations. We reached Mike Bennett in Manchester.

CO: Mike, how big a hit is your company taking post-Brexit?

MIKE BENNETT: At the moment, Carol, it's difficult to judge because we've also got the COVID issue. But what I can say is we have complications. We have parcels stuck all over the EU. We have customers complaining and saying that they will not buy from the UK anymore because it is far easier to just buy within the EU.

CO: And it's more expensive to buy now because of duties, right?

MB: Yes, there's now seems to be a customs clearance charge in every parcel we shipped, which is between 17 and 25 euros. There's a duty of around seven percent. And then the other thing that's happening is the customer has to pay the VAT in their own country. Of course, they can reclaim this when they do a VAT return. But psychologically, we never had this problem before. There were no issues like this. So they now say they'll buy within the EU to avoid these extra charges and the VAT problem.

CO: And so your company, which has been around since your great grandfather set it up, you're now going to open a plant, a production in the EU in order to serve those customers that once bought the silk from your British shop, right?

MB: Yeah, that's exactly correct. Fortunately, we invested in a French weaving factory back in 2016. We never even considered this Brexit vote coming up. And we're lucky to have some space there.

CO: But this wasn't supposed to be the case, right? Brexit was sold as a way to save British business from unnecessary European Union red tape, and that it was going to be a net benefit. So these increased costs -- did they not get calculated into the Brexit equation?

MB: There's no benefit from Brexit, Carol. The main thing was immigration. The business side of it is going to be a disaster.

CO: So you are having to set up this other operation. Do you have to lay off people in the UK and then hire people in Europe?

MB: We'll do the minimum when we can. We're fortunate because the place in France is already its own independent company, so we've got stuff there that can handle this redistribution. And then once we get going, we'll have to consider hiring staff in France. And for the UK operation, which will remain the main operation, there's no intention for the whole company to leave the UK. There'll be two or three redundancies, I expect.

CO: But you'll try and keep your operation going as best you can in the UK for your silk manufacturing, right?

MB: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And, yeah, there's no issue there. We're pretty well-known in what we do and that'll continue. It's just a redistribution. It's a way to for our European customers to avoid the duty charges, the customs clearance charges. If we send, 70 parcels a week to the EU and every single one of them gets a 20 euro customs clearance charge because that's what they are between 17 and 25 euros. But we can send one consolidated shipment to the French factory, which will get the same customs clearance charge, which Bennett Silks UK will cover. And then the box will be opened and redistributed around Europe. This is simple.

CO: What would your great grandfather say if he were around to comment on this company he started having to go to France in order to sell to Europe?

MB: Well, unfortunately, I never met my great grandfather. He passed away a few years before I was born. But I like to think he'd be proud that the company's still going and the company has gone from strength to strength. We've survived under his control and then onwards, we survived the First World War, we survived the Second World War, which survived the economic collapse in 2007 or whatever it was. And we are going to survive Brexit, Carol. But this seems to always be a challenge.

CO: Now, Boris Johnson said that this challenge you referred to are just teething problems for Brexit. What would you say to your prime minister if you got the chance?

MB: Before I answer this, I'll say I'm a Conservative voter. I've never voted for any other party. But in answer to that question, I would say: rubbish. And that's because the UK Department for Industry and Trade, they're advising companies that trade with the EU to set up companies in the EU. So that's the government department, the Department for Industry and Trade.

CO: All right, that's more than teething, isn't it?

MB: Well, if they are advising British companies to go setup in the EU, then it doesn't indicate its teething problems, does it? And it is just not Bennett Silks -- there are thousands of companies. I'm just a small player. There's thousands of companies in this exact same situation, and it's just ridiculous.

CO: I hear you, Mike, and I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

MB: No problem Carol. Thank you.

CH: Mike Bennett is the director of Bennett Silks. We reached him in Manchester.

[Music: Flute Music]

U-Roy

CH: In 1970, the Jamaican reggae singer John Holt went to a party where he heard the DJ playing his group, The Paragons' 1967 hit "Wear You To The Ball." [MUSIC PLAYS: The Paragons' "Wear You To The Ball"] John Holt was stunned, not because the guy was blabbering all over his record, but because it sounded amazing. So he immediately told the legendary producer Duke Reid in Kingston that he had to record the guy who called himself: U-Roy. Ewart Beckford, better known as "U-Roy" a DJ and toaster who revolutionised Jamaican music, died yesterday. He was 78. U-Roy was nearly 10 years into his career at that point. But after Mr. Holt's discovery, U-Roy blew up. His first three singles, went to the top of the charts. And the Trojan Records website says that in Jamaica, the release of his first album was comparable in rock circles to the release of something like a Pet Sounds or a Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. U-Roy was finally a superstar. And with that album, he didn't just belatedly launch what would be a decades long career. He expanded the possibilities of toasting, spawned an army of imitators, and 2500 kilometres away in New York City he inspired the creation of hip-hop. So it's for good reason that he was given the nickname "The Originator."

February 18, 2021 Episode Transcript

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