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The AIH Transcript for May 24, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening, I'm Talia Schlanger, sitting in for Chris Howden, this is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

TS: Tonight:

CO: Hidden in plane view. A Belorussian military jet forced a plane carrying an opposition journalist to land in Minsk, where he was detained. His former colleague says the arrest was meant to frighten all opposition activists, but, he says, it won't work.

TS: In for an education. Alberta is ordering universities to halt collaborations with China over concerns about human rights abuses, but our guest says it's academics and students who will pay the price.

CO: Hard pressed. A journalist who has been reporting on atrocities in Tigray has been expelled from Ethiopia. He says he's worried about the chill on other journalists who have told him they're afraid to do their jobs.

TS: Cost cutting. An Alaska man takes a distinctly do-it-yourself approach to the sky-high price of lumber -- by building his own backyard sawmill.

CO: Lost and found. The Tragically Hip thought six tracks that didn't make it onto their 1991 album “Road Apples” had been destroyed in a fire, but it turns out they still exist. And now, we get to hear them.

TS: And... Beast of Eden. Before writing “The Grapes of Wrath”, a young John Steinbeck tried his hand at a werewolf murder mystery. And our guest says it's high time to publish it so readers can discover the author's playful side.

TS: As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that appreciates claws celeb.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Belarus Forced Landing, AB China University, Alaska DIY Sawmill

Belarus Forced Landing

Guest: Franak Viačorka

TS: The Belorusian government has released a video of Roman Protasevich admitting that he incited riots. Mr Protasevich is the activist and blogger who was arrested yesterday in Minsk. The commercial flight he was on, that took off from Greece was intercepted by Belarussian fighter jets and forced to land. Belarus' neighbors are calling the incident a case of state-orchestrated hijacking and they are warning Alexander Lukashenko -- the country's strongman -- to prepare for sanctions. But Roman Protasevich's friends and colleagues says they're worried for his life. Franak Viačorka is senior advisor to an exiled Belarusion opponent of the government. He met Roman Pratasevich when they were interning as journalists. We reached Mr Viačorka in Vilnius, Lithuania.

CO: Mr, Viacorka, I'm sure you have seen this video that is circulating of Roman Protasevich confessing, allegedly confessing. What do you make of it?

FRANAK VIACORKA: Oh, you can see in this video the person who was interrogated. Who was possibly tortured. This was not the person who was voluntarily confessing. As in Orwell’s book, George Orwell's book, people are forced to tell what authorities, what the regime wants them to tell. Unfortunately, Roman was captured by KGB in one of the cruellest dictatorship in Europe. That's the toughest dictatorship in decades. And unfortunately, we don't know what will happen to him? What is happening to him right now? Let's remember that Roman was detained not alone. He was detained with his girlfriend and she’s also the hostage. And just imagine what they told, what they might told him about the girlfriend. Why they detain people like Roman, first of all, they want information about other people. Second, they wanted to get access to popular channels owned and edited by Roman. And the third, they wanted to revenge because Roman was their personal enemy of Lukashenko. He was very vocal, very brave when criticising the regime.

CO: We've seen President Lukashenko just crack down very hard on those who have been protesting during this past year. And... but could you imagine that he would do something as brazen as this? As to force a plane to land, a commercial flight to land in Belarus and take somebody off that plane?

FV: Honestly, I didn't expect. You know, I must say that one week ago we were taking the same flight. We were coming back from the Delphi Economic Forum and we were flying the Ryanair from Athens to Vilnius over Belarus territory. And we could be on the place of Roman right now and KGB interrogated and tortured. Unfortunately, after yesterday's incident, we knew that no one is safe in Europe. Belarus domestic crisis became the threat to the entire Europe. When you're flying, when you're using commercial flights over Belarus territory, you, your kids, your relatives or friends can be captured, as it happened yesterday. We also got information that the possible target was not Roman, but it was Tsikhanouskaya. I don't know if it's true or not, but it’s definitely that they... they wanted to to capture Tsikhanouskaya because right now, she's the main challenger. And they regret that they allowed Tsikhanouskaya to flee.

CO: All right. And this is a woman that you work with and for, who is leading the opposition who is in Vilnius? Did they think she was on the plane or what are you saying?

FV: I'm trying to understand what happened because Roman perhaps is not the opposition leader, he is not the figure of number one. So, you know, the costs of such operation are too big. Just imagine you detained 26 years old blogger by fighter jet. You stop the aeroplane, you create the international scandal and you're getting into the world global conflict. I don't think it's only about Protasevich. I think it's about sending the message, sending the signal like, look guys over here, I don't care about what you think. I can stop planes, I can shut down planes, I can kill people and you can't do anything about this. I think this is the message he wanted to say. He was also showing to us to... to... to those who are in exile that I will get you everywhere, even if you are in Lithuania or Canada or Poland or Kiev. I still have my agents everywhere and I can... I can capture you there. So this... this is about messaging.

CO: Wow! And so the scene as you're describing it, I mean, as Lukashenko scrambles his fighter jets, I understand that there were more than just Roman Protasevich and his girlfriend who got off that... were removed from that flight. Also, there were some other people were understood, to be probably KGB on the plane. So this is a big operation that took a little bit of planning, would you not say?

FV: Oh, yeah, it looked like a very well-planned operation. And it also means that they were following, watching, monitoring him. After yesterday's incident, this morning, we made the special meeting with the security and we discussed what to do right now? First of all, we will not be flying over Belarus. We will be avoiding Belarus-related organizations, companies, of course, airlines. We discussed that we should be always sticking together because for KGB, it's much easier to... to... to get us one by one.

CO: But if you have decided that you are going to change your travel plans to be concerned that this might happen to any of you who are in the... in the opposition anywhere in the world, doesn't that suggest that President Lukashenko has accomplished what he set out to do if this was a message he was sending?

FV: I don't think he accomplished. I think he will be regreting. And I think it was his huge mistake because in the last several months, Belarus lost somewhere on the international agenda. And suddenly, Lukashenko made sure that Belarus was everywhere. And you see that the European Council is ready now. They decided to prohibit flights over Belarus territory. They decided to expand sanctions. They decided to impose fourth and fifth package of sanctions. I think this is not the reaction that he intended to get. And I think he... he... he's very wrong when he thinks that there will be impunity. That was alarm call for European politicians. And I think they will not be calm and quiet here.

CO: Franak, we will leave it there. And once again, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

FV: Thank you.

TS: Franak Viačorka is senior advisor to an exiled Belarusion opposition politician. We reached Mr. Viačorka in Vilnius, Lithuania.

[music: indie rock]

AB China University

Guest: Wenren Jiang

TS: The Alberta government is ordering its top universities to hit the brakes on working with China. The province's education minister has given the Universities of Alberta, Calgary, Lethbridge as well as Athabasca University 90 days to report on all relationships, direct or indirect, with the Chinese government or the Chinese Communist Party. And the minister has told the schools to stop pursuing future ties. Alberta says it doesn't want its academic work being used to undermine democracy and human rights. But Wenren Jiang says there will be a price. Mr Jiang is a retired University of Alberta professor and the founding director of the school's China Institute. We reached him in Edmonton.

CO: Mr. Jiang, how big an impact do you think this policy could have on the professors and the students that you worked with at the University of Alberta?

WENREN JIANG: I think the impact would be very substantial. After all, I cannot recall such a direct intervention by a provincial government. And so, therefore, the request that report for all these activities, collaborations between Canadian universities and the Chinese, would send a shockwave to the people who are doing collaborations and research with their Chinese colleagues.

CO: All right. But, you heard that the target is not those individuals. It's not Chinese students or Chinese academics as individuals. The target of this, the concern, is with the Chinese Communist Party and the People's Republic of China's government. This is what they say is the issue. And the close ties that are perceived to be between Chinese military and the scientists who may be working in Canada. That's of great concern.

WJ: And that is actually the exact problem because that line sounds straight out of the Mike Pompeo of the Trump administration, who are extreme anti-China views, are saying everything China does is a threat. And the idea that somehow the Chinese researchers, individuals, has nothing to do with the Chinese government is in itself a statement of contradiction by literally saying cut off the ties because all the public universities are under the Chinese government’s Ministry of Education are, well, on the one hand, you say they're not connected. On the other hand, saying suspend everything because they're connected. It's itself a statement of contradiction. And therefore, it will not go away with associating the particular individuals, especially of Chinese origin, who are Canadian citizens, who are doing normal collaborations with the Chinese institutions, especially those who are in the high tech and sensitive technology areas because they simply don't know where to go, because some kind of report out of nowhere saying China might be our enemy and this is... we need to draw the line.

CO: Well --

WJ: I think that is the fear.

CO: Sure, there is concern, and this has been cited from many sources that there is concern that the Chinese scientists, the Chinese academics who would be collaborating, who are employed by China are not... have no academic independence, that they are associated with the Chinese government. And by virtue of that, associated with the Chinese military. That's... is there no validity to that concern, sir?

WJ: Yeah, this is the kind of a sweeping charges that the most concerning, Carol, of what we're talking about. There are several issues with this. Number one, somehow, our collaboration with the Chinese researchers somehow is being seen as purely a one-way street, somehow aiding Chinese national security apparatus or even human rights abuses. Well, in fact, this is a very carefully considered by every university. And more and more so, benefiting us as China's science and technology areas advance further. And the second problem is this: are the areas that we don't collaborate with China, or we want to curb. In many areas, they can do better or the same with or without us. When I was the founding director of the China Institute between 2005 and 2008, we were receiving from the provincial government 37 million dollars. The mandate is to promote a partnership with China. And now they're saying we can't do those. So that would be very shocking how many people are working in this area.

CO: OK, but are they really saying we can't do this? Are they saying that they want a review of it? They want to see some limitations? Because, as you know, President Xi Jinping of China has said that science and innovation is to be a key element of modernizing China's armed forces, its security services, its technology companies. That some of this is an alarm about the degree to which these corporations are going on. Do you think it's possible that there are some places where there should be limits on this kind of collaboration?

WJ: Yes, the question is. Because all being said, I'm personally all for a national security review related to our university-level research collaborations with China. I'm not against that at all, but we need to do it in a proper way, not interfering in normal activities. And by the way, which country does not want to link its science and technology with their military and the overall strength of the country? The Americans do the same. So does Canada. I think the question here we need to ask in Canada is whether now we somehow view China as our enemy or we're actually treating China with all our difficulties. Still, as a partner, we can do normal relationships, which are, I think, is the nature of the discussion in this country.

CO: OK, but I guess the issue is whether there is any degree of academic freedom or academic independence with those scientists with those academics working with the Canadians or whether they are agents of the Chinese government? I mean, isn't that the question?

WJ: I think this is the question because we have like 170 Chinese origin professors with tenure. Most of them are in science and technology areas. Somehow they are being perceived as collaborating with the enemy. And that actually is the danger. We need to develop proper guidelines by the federal government because once you list everything, all the Chinese scientists, somehow as a part of the Chinese government apparatus. Literally, by that logic, we just simply have to stop everything.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. Jiang, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

WJ: Thank you very much.

TS: Wenren Jiang is a retired University of Alberta professor and founding director of the school's China Institute. He's in Edmonton.

[music: vocalization]

Alaska DIY Sawmill

Guest: Hans Dow

TS: It's an understatement to say that DIY has become popular during the pandemic. People have turned to how-to videos and online tutorials to learn new skills, save money, and keep busy during lockdowns. And while the trend may have started with the make-your-own mask videos, the homespun projects -- to shave costs -- have become bigger and more complicated now. So when Hans Dow watched the price of lumber more than double in the past year, he took a DIY-approach. He built his own sawmill, and started cutting his own timber. We reached Mr. Dow in Anchorage, Alaska.

CO: Hans, how did you come to decide that you wanted to have your own sawmill?

HANS DOW: So it was kind of a mix of things. So I've always wanted a sawmill, but really the big push for it was my older brother was remodelling his house. We were kind of doing the math on it. And we're figuring, well, you know, it's going to cost about 3,000 dollars just in materials to do the siding. But you can get a base model bandsaw mill for basically the same price. But then, at the end of it, you've got a bandsaw mill. So we kind of sat there, and we thought about it. And we're like, well, you know, it'd be kind of cool to have a bandsaw mill! And then the big push to build one for myself was the cheapest one you can get isn't really what I want. It's not big enough, it's not sturdy enough and everything else. So I figured, you know, for the same price, just in materials, I could build one myself. And then all the labour is free because I do it myself.

CO: I guess you can't exactly order these kinds of things on Amazon, can you? So where... where do you get the parts to build your own sawmill?

HD: So there's a local metal store here that just kind of works with, like a lot of hobbyists. So I would just go to them and say, like, hey, I need these pieces cut to such and such a length and whatnot. And they would cut up the pieces for me, and then I'd take them back to my garage and put them together.

CO: OK. OK. You make it sound so easy. I mean, this is like... how many little bits and bobs did you have to pull together in order to build this from scratch?

HD: Quite a few, to put it simply. There are a couple of mechanisms on it that I kind of had to figure out for myself. Some like mechanisms to be able to adjust the blade itself, to adjust that tension for the motor that drives the wheels and everything else. So there were a couple of things that I had to kind of sort out along the way. [CO chuckles] But as far as bits and pieces, just a lot.

CO: But I mean, OK, there are safety concerns, right? It's not like this is something that could... you could have a serious accident if you got it wrong. And so did you know what you were doing?

HD: No. Basically, no. [chuckling] But there... as far as it goes, the only really dangerous spot is in front of the bandsaw mill itself. Most of the time, the only thing that'll happen is the blade will kind of jump off, and it could, like, jump forward. But I stand behind the sawmill and push it, and I've got blade guards that surround the whole thing. So if it does jump off, it gets caught by the blade guards.

CO: OK, so you knew that some of the bits and bobs you had to get would be blade guards?

HD: Yeah, well, I made blades guards from scratch, but yeah.

CO: [laughing] OK. Oh really. OK. [chuckling]

HD: Yeah.

CO: OK. Now, did you have any plan? Did you have a blueprint for this? Or did you just have to sort of make it up as you went along?

HD: Yeah. So I looked for a while, and then there was one guy that I came across, and he had a set of plans for a sawmill, and I liked his design because it was very simple, but it was very rigid. And I used that to kind of give me baseline references for measurements such as the width of the deck, the length of the bed, the height of the gantry for the bandsaw mill and whatnot. So I had like... I had a jumping-off point, but then there were a lot of things that I kind of improvised, like where the engine was mounted, where my battery holder went and, like, where the fuel tank was held and everything else.

CO: OK, so now that you've built your sawmill, where are you getting your trees from?

HD: So I work for a tree service here in Anchorage, and we take down trees pretty frequently. And so the nice thing is that when the customer wants the wood hauled off, I kind of get the pick of the lot as far as trees go. And then sometimes, if a customer takes down like a birch and it's just a really nice big piece, and they kind of want to keep it, I'll talk to them and say, like, if you're going to cut this up for firewood, I'll trade you. Like, I will bring you firewood so I could have this and mill it up because it seems a shame for something so nice to just get turned into firewood.

CO: And... but you also have a problem with the spruce beetle, right? A lot of trees going down because of that?

HD: Correct. If these spruce trees had not been hit by spruce bark beetles, they would have never come down otherwise. So really large spruce trees are coming down, which is unfortunate for the people who I work for. But in my instance, it's kind of handy because then I can get very big logs very consistently.

CO: Who are you selling or contributing this wood to besides you're house project? Are you now in the market to sell this stuff?

HD: I'm just kind of getting it figured out. And the company I work for, the guy that does our estimates, has mentioned to like a handful of people that one of the guys that does the tree work has a bandsaw mill, and you might be able to work something out with him. So I just the other day brought, I think, for logs back to my house and those are sitting waiting to get milled. Then we'll figure out pricing and whatnot. If I can, like, break just barely above even, I'm... I'm pretty happy with what I'm doing.

CO: Given the price of wood, though, it must be a lucrative thing you might be getting into because everyone is talking about how exponentially more expensive it is to get building supplies. Is that something that's part of your... you're factoring that into your decision?

HD: Not really. I mean, the wood that I know for myself, for my own house projects, that plays a factor. But if I'm milling the wood for somebody else, I'm not interested in the money side of it. Like, I think that it takes the fun out of what you're trying to do. So I'm not trying to, like, get rich. I'm just trying to, like, do something that I enjoy and just give back a little bit to people that give me work and to try to help them get something out of their unfortunate loss.

CO: But the wood is so expensive right now, right? I mean, that's what everyone is talking about, so is that this is --

HD: Oh yeah, absolutely.

CO: So this is something that I guess there's a lot of people looking for other sources of these kinds of building materials?

HD: Yeah. And... and I mean, the hard part is is that I'm just kind of a hobbyist. I'm not a production scale or anything else like that. So it's not precise work. If they're looking for a two-by-four, that is one and a half by three and a half, I can't produce that level of it. So it's just I don't want to try to get involved with that aspect of it.

CO: Would you encourage others to start their own sawmill, [chuckling] to go to the local hardware store and get what you need and... and build one of these things in their own basement?

HD: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was a really fun project. Part of it, too, was I wanted to learn how to weld. And so this seems like a very non-rushed, low-stress project that I could kind of take my time with and learn how to weld, learn the mistakes kind of along the way. And if I didn't weld something properly, then no harm, no foul. I'll fix it, and I'll just kind of go from there. So, like, the knowledge I gained along with it, along with building it, is almost more valuable, I think, than the mill itself.

CO: That's cool! Hans, it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

HD: Yeah, thank you.

CO: Take care.

HD: Yeah. Bye.

TS: Hans Dow built his own sawmill. He spoke to us from Anchorage, Alaska.

[music: folk]

Tragically Hip New Album

TS: Thirty years ago, The Tragically Hip recorded "Road Apples" -- their second studio album. It was their first album to reach Number One in Canada and it remains a favourite for many fans. But it was originally intended to be a double album -- and so a handful of songs from those sessions were never released. For years, the Kingston, Ontario band thought the master tapes were destroyed in the Universal Studios fire in 2008. But after rummaging through old boxes during the pandemic, they unearthed six of the never-released tracks-- never released until now. On Friday, the band released all six in a new album called "Saskadelphia" -- which was the original title for "Road Apples" before it was dismissed by their label as "too Canadian." Here's the first track -- this is some 1991 vintage Tragically Hip, with "Ouch."

[music: “Ouch” by The Tragically Hip/rock]

Part 2: Ethiopia Journo Expelled, Steinbeck Werewolf Novel

Ethiopia Journo Expelled

Guest: Simon Marks

TS: It has been six months since war engulfed the Tigray region of northern Ethiopia. Human rights abuses and other atrocities have been recorded by aid groups, researchers and journalists -- including reports of massacres, looting, and sexual violence. Although, that doesn't mean it's been easy to get a clear picture of all that has been happening. Simon Marks was helping to tell the stories of the thousands of people who have died in the conflict -- and hundreds of thousands more who have been displaced. The British-Irish citizen is a freelance journalist who has reported for the New York Times and POLITICO from Ethiopia, where he's been based for nearly two years. But last week, he was expelled from the country. We reached him in Brussels.

CO: Simon, can you give us a sense of what you went through last week and what happened in the lead up to your deportation?

SIMON MARKS: Yes, so between March and May, myself and The New York Times tried to appeal their decision to revoke our licence in Ethiopia. At the beginning of May, they finally decided that there would be no re-accreditation. It was then, just over two weeks later, that I received a call from immigration saying that they had decided to deport me. They requested I came down to the immigration headquarters. And when I went through the door, that was that they informed me I had to leave that night. I was put in a car, driven to the airport, made to buy a ticket and not really given much explanation as to what had changed and why they were now deporting me?

CO: But you had recently been in Tigray reporting, is that right?

SM: Yeah, correct. So just prior to having my journalistic licence revoked, I was in Tigray. I had not published anything at that point from that trip. But upon my return, there was this letter waiting for me. And, you know, I've had many reasons cited as to why from diplomats and other sources close to the governments, some referred to past stories in The New York Times, which were critical of the conflicts. Others said the government was aware. I had, you know, unsavoury links with the TPLF, the Tigray People's Liberation Front, all of which were unfounded. But there was this notion within the government, I think.

CO: We have been trying to cover what's going on in Tigray since the fighting began back in November. And, of course, we're not alone in that. But it's been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get much information out of Tigray. What did you actually see when you got there? Because we've been hearing so many reports of civilians being treated appallingly badly and suffering human rights abuses.

SM: Yes, correct. Upon entering Tigray, even in the regional capital of mek'ele, you are instantly confronted with the notion that this conflict is overflowing into the few hospitals that are actually functioning in the region. So when you go to hospitals, you know, every ward is filled with civilian casualties, from minor injuries through to more serious ones, people with missing limbs, with bullets in various parts of their body. There's children, plenty of children I saw. And there's entire wards full of survivors of rape, you know, some of whom have stories that you can barely believe.

CO: Who is principally committing these atrocities?

SM: Well, when you speak to the civilians, they all corroborate a similar version of events. And they point towards either Eritrean troops who are backing Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed's incursion into the Tigray region or Ethiopian troops. And in general, these two armies are working in tandem and supporting each other and communicate pretty closely with each other on the field. In the west of Tigray, you have a special forces belonging to the Amhara region who now control this part of Tigray. And according to sources on the field and humanitarian workers, have bused thousands of Syrians out and killed others. It's a real mixture of different forces committing these crimes.

CO: When we were able to speak with an Ethiopian official from the government just as the conflict began, she insisted that the target was not civilians. That their battle, their fight, was with the Tigray People's Liberation Front. Can you tell us what is happening to the civilians? Is there any effort to protect them from this fighting?

SM: Well, I think to that, you know, war obviously is messy. And it's a fact that there is widespread support among the civilian population for the Tigray Defence Forces. And there are credible reports that the Tigray Defence Forces have successfully recruited a lot of members of the civilian community. So it's very possible that in a situation where you have guerrilla warfare in parts of the country where there are civilians, that civilians get caught up in this violence. One aspect of the conflict that seems to be repeating itself is after a military incursion between both sides, the day after, when the bodies of soldiers are collected, there is indiscriminate killing taking place. And I think this is how this is happening. Whether that's sanctioned by the Ethiopian government or not is, in a way is another question, but that is what is taking place or has taken place.

CO: Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed is saying that he takes these accusations of human rights abuses and atrocities seriously. And on Friday, three soldiers were convicted of rape, and dozens of others have been charged with suspected killings and sexual violence. Does that signal that the Ethiopian government is actually trying to turn this around?

SM: It does. The number of people found guilty raises questions considering the number of atrocities that have now been documented in the region. But clearly, it's a step in the right direction. But I think, you know, if the government is to really show that it has, I suppose, its people's innocent civilians interests at heart, there will be some kind of attempts to come back to the table with the Tigrayans and implement a cease-fire. Because as it stands, the war is still raging in many parts of the region, and access for humanitarian workers is massively troublesome.

CO: You are a foreign reporter. You work for big international media. Having you expelled, what message does that send to Ethiopian journalists?

SM: I think that actually is probably the most serious part of what's happened, actually, is the impact that it leaves behind. There are many courageous Ethiopian journalists working for local media and also helping international media do their job. And I've had many calls from some of my colleagues and Ethiopian friends expressing how scared they are now to actually go out and do their job. Clearly, the risks for an Ethiopian journalist are higher than they are for a foreign journalist. They can go to jail. And in some cases, they can lose their life. So the message is not good.

CO: Simon, we'll leave it there for now. We'll be following this story as best we can. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SM: Likewise. Thanks so much.

TS: Simon Marks is a freelance journalist who was expelled from Ethiopia last week. He spoke to us from Brussels.

[music: folk]

Promo & Reading: Hassan al Kontar

TS: For many, airports represent new beginnings, emotional reunions, and adventure. But for Hassan al Kontar, airports represent something much different -- the line between life and death. Mr. al Kontar is from Syria. Today, he's a permanent resident in Canada. But for seven months in 2018, he was stuck inside the Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia, entirely unsure of his future. At one point, as told in his his new book, "Man at the Airport," Mr. al Kontar decided to fly to Ecuador, in a last-ditch effort to seek asylum. His mother and sister sold their gold jewellery to pay for his two-thousand dollar ticket. But even with his boarding pass, the agent refused to let him board. You can hear a feature interview with Mr. al Kontar later in the show, but for now, here he is reading from his book.

SOUNDCLIP

HASSAN AL KONTAR: The other passengers were passing by me, almost threw me. Their shoulders brushing against mine as they checked in. Got their boarding passes and headed toward the plane in a matter of minutes, but not me. I watched him confirm all the other passengers, including those on the standby list. At around 9:00 p.m. -- after two hours of waiting and being ignored -- my questions unanswered, the supervisor refused to allow me to board. The air went dark, so dark that I could not see where I was or who was near me. In that darkness, I forget the danger I was putting myself into when I start to shock. Police surrounded me. Then, with a voice trying to show strength, not emotion, I called out a question to him that was a turning point for me. Would you do the same if I was holding an American, Canadian, Australian or European passport? He did not answer. He didn't have to. I was not asking him this question expecting an answer from him. I was asking them to find comfort in who I am. I wanted to shout out so loud that my heart and soul could hear, this was not my fault.

TS: Hassan al Kontar reading an excerpt from his new book, "Man at the Airport." Later in the program, you can hear Carol's feature conversation with Mr. al Kontar about his remarkable time living at an airport in Malaysia -- and his eventual journey to Canada. You can also hear that interview now on our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: dark piano]

Cornelia Hahn Oberlander Obit

TS: Cornelia Hahn Oberlander saw growth opportunities everywhere. After fleeing Nazi Germany as a young woman, she was dedicated to nurturing the opposite of its devastating ugliness -- revealing beauty, harmony and life. The pioneering landscape architect designed rooftop gardens, sprawling parks, and dozens of innovative playgrounds, all with a focus on sustainability that was far ahead of its time. Ms. Hahn Oberlander settled in Vancouver, and the city would never be the same. Her influence can be felt in everything from the log seating on the city’s beaches to the outdoor spaces at the Museum of Anthropology. Cornelia Hahn Oberlander died on Saturday. She was 99. In 2019, she spoke to CBC about her career -- and a new international award that had been named for her.

SOUNDCLIP

CORNELIA HAHN OBERLANDER: I was completely overwhelmed when the Cultural Landscape Foundation announced this. It is the culmination of 70 years of work and research. My one wish was to advance a profession of landscape architecture to new heights.

GLORIA MACARENKO: It's interesting that you have described landscape architecture as a combination of art and science. So tell us, what is the art and what is the science?

CHO: The science is that for every project, you must know the climate, the soil, the rainfall and what it is used for. And that is human ecology. The art is that I learned by working at Arthur Erickson for so many years I have to start with a concept, analyze the site. And he used to always remind us the building and the site must achieve a fit. And that is really my dictum.

GM: What was it like to be a woman starting out in your field 70 years ago?

CHO: Well, I... when I graduated from Harvard Graduate School of Design in 1947, I wrote 40 letters asking for work. And I got some very interesting replies. And the most interesting reply was from a landscape architect called James Rose, one of the founders of modern landscape architecture.

GM: Wow! But what was it like being a woman? Were you --

CHO: I never thought of it. All I thought of is that I want to be a landscape architect and make the world a little greener.

TS: Cornelia Hahn Oberlander speaking with Gloria Macarenko for CBC Radio’s 'On the Coast' in 2019. Ms. Hahn Oberlander died on Saturday. The renowned landscape architect was 99 years old.

[music: uke]

Steinbeck Werewolf Novel

Guest: Gavin Jones

TS: When John Steinbeck's name comes up in conversation, novels including "The Grapes of Wrath" and "East of Eden" usually spring to mind. Werewolves... not so much. But such a beast is at the centre of the American author's unpublished novel "Murder at Full Moon." For years, the existence of the book has been an open secret in the University of Texas archives. But now, Gavin Jones is trying to reveal that secret to a wider audience, by trying to get the book published. Mr. Jones is a specialist in American literature at Stanford University. He's also the author of the soon-to-be-published book, "Reclaiming John Steinbeck: Writing for the Future of Humanity." We reached him in Stanford, California.

CO: Gavin, if you were asked to write a blurb for the book Jacket of "Murder at Full Moon", to sum it up, what would you say?

GAVIN JONES: Well, I don't want to give too much away in case it does get published. So I'm not going to spoil the plot. But if I was going to give a blurb, I would say something like the mist rolls in, in this... the town of Cone City, California. The malignant, mysterious atmosphere of the marshes begins to impact the characters at a local gun club. When a dog is murdered one night, this is just the beginning. Every time there's a full moon, a murder occurs, each one more gruesome than the last. But our detective is on the case. That's probably how I would begin.

CO: OK.

GJ: And it would unfold from there on.

CO: Now, of course, this is... we're talking about John Steinbeck here. And nobody associates this kind of horror writing with him. How did he come to be writing about... and we'll have to give it away a bit here, how did he come to be writing about werewolves?

GJ: Well, you know, it's actually a theme that runs through his writing if you know where to find it. He's very interested in the impact of the environment on humans. He's interested in the very narrow line that separates humans from non-human animals. So the werewolf theme is really the beginning of something that we see throughout his work.

CO: But this was written... "Murder at Full Moon" was written before the novels and the books we know best. "Of Mice and Men" or "The Grapes of Wrath" or "East of Eden". This was... this is an early work, is it not?

GJ: Yeah, it was written in 1930. So he'd published one novel at this point called "Cup of Gold", which is a sort of swashbuckling novel about pirates in Central America. But he had not sort of become the Steinbeck that we know today. So that's why it's so interesting to look at this early work. It's as if it's the Steinbeck we never had, a playful sort of comic, experimental writer who is also capable of these sort of dark and mysterious themes.

CO: Why was it never published?

GJ: Well, he wasn't really known as a figure at that time. So that's one of the reasons. I mean, it's quite a gruesome book. That might be another reason. But I really don't know? I mean, looking back now... now that Steinbeck is the Steinbeck we know, I think it's... it's a really fascinating read. So I hope it does get published.

CO: But I mean, he tried to get it published, right?

GJ: Yeah. He sent it to his literary agents, who I believe tried to get it published unsuccessfully.

CO: now, but you want to see it published. And so what do you... I mean, is it good? [slight chuckle]

GJ: Well, I think it is. You know, I mean, I'm a huge Steinbeck fan. It's a sort of hybrid book. It brings together various themes and techniques. And so it's a kind of playful, ironic, almost postmodern detective novel at one level because here we have a situation in which murders in the real world are following the pattern of fiction, right? We have this detective who is using his knowledge of the structure of literary fiction to solve a real crime. So it has that kind of postmodern irony within it. But then it's also this... this almost noir detective novel. You know, we think of California noir detective fiction as something that occurs later in the mid-1930s through the 1940s. But in a way, because Steinbeck is so obsessed with the environment of the central California coast, the mysterious fogs and the dark sort of nihilistic atmosphere that... that this environment creates, we have a noir-like environment. So I think it's important in terms of literary history in that respect as well.

CO: But it seems that the author's estate disagrees that it should be published, right? His literary agents, Mcintosh and Otis, they have said that he... he wrote this under a pseudonym. He didn't publish it while he was alive. And they will not publish it. That's what they're saying. So how do you respond?

GJ: Well, many writers write under pseudonyms, George Eliot, for example, Mark Twain -- they're pseudonyms. And then, of course, you know, if we didn't publish works posthumously, we would hardly have any poems by Emily Dickinson. So I don't really follow the logic there. I think that readers would be interested in this. There's nothing to hide. You know, it's not like the book is ethically problematic. And the point is, you know, it's a complete novel. When I first encountered it, I was expecting it to be a fragment or some incomplete thing, you know? But this is a complete, finely-crafted work.

CO: So I can see the value to academics, people who are studying Steinbeck like yourself, to be able to see how it compares with the later works. But do you think there is a general audience, would be a general appetite for this novel?

GJ: Well, I think it would probably appeal to Steinbeck fans more than to general readers. But it would certainly appeal to those who are interested in detective fiction. You know, I'm not saying that it's the best novel ever written, but it's really not bad. And it's got some... some wonderful pieces of writing in it, particularly the description of the environment on the central California coast. So, yeah, I think lots of different readers would get a great deal from this book.

CO: All right. Well, and what chances do you think you have of seeing it get published?

GJ: Well, I… I don't know. I mean, I hope that the estate reconsiders, and maybe they could retitle it "Beast of Eden", [CO chuckles] and that might... might sell a few more. I don't know. So, yeah, I hope... I hope… I hope it does come out.

CO: All right, we'll leave it there. Gavin, thank you.

GJ: Thank you, Carol. Take care.

TS: Gavin Jones is a specialist in American literature at Stanford University. He's in Stanford, California.

[music: Jazz]

Part 3: Hassan al Kontar Feature

Hassan al Kontar Feature

Guest: Hassan al Kontar

TS: When Hassan al Kontar was living inside a Malaysian airport in 2018, he somehow found a rhythm. He watched planes land and take off, drank endless cups of coffee, and washed his clothes in the airport bathroom. He also had to remind himself all day, every day, that this was not normal. And that this was not home. The Syrian man spent seven months trapped inside Kuala Lumpur's International Airport. The entire time, he feared arrest, torture or death if he was returned to Syria, having left there to escape mandatory military service there. And all his attempts to travel where he could be granted asylum, or given a visa, failed. When "As It Happens" spoke to Mr. al Kontar in April 2018, a month into his ordeal at the airport -- it seemed he was out of options.

SOUNDCLIP

HASSAN al KONTAR: It's not my fault that I born with a paper say that I am Syrian. I can be an extra and add value in any community. I am a very good worker, an expert man. I keep trying to prove myself, yet I'm not able to find a place, a safe place, a clean place where I can be legal.

CO: I'm so sorry to hear this. It’s just awful. There are people in Canada with a fundraising campaign --

HAK: Yes, yes. They made me believe again in humans. They are just a group of volunteers, amazing people. They bringed my soul, my mind, my heart for the rest of my life, no matter what consequences will be, if I'm jailed or or to Syria, these people, I'm in their debt. I'm grateful for them as long as I'm staying alive. Canada is one of the greatest nation, one of the greatest societies. It's a dream for anyone.

CH: For Mr. al Kontar, that dream came true in November 2018. Thanks to a team of private refugee sponsors in Canada, Hassan al Kontar now calls British Columbia home. And he can also now call himself a published author. His new book, "Man at the Airport," is out today in Canada.

CO: Hassan, welcome back to “As It Happens”.

HAK: Thank you for having me again.

CO: When you hear yourself back there in April 2018 at the airport, what goes through your mind?

HAK: How far I came. I still remember like it's yesterday when... when I have... I received a call from As It Happens. It was my first media interview, Canadian interview. And I remember myself saying that I don't want to screw up. This is... this is my chance. This is me speaking to the Canadian directly for the first time. And I remember after we finished the interview, I smiled big time. I thought I did well. [CO chuckles] But I smiled because I said, I miss that guy. This is me. And from that time on, it did not matter what was going to happen. I become proud of what I was doing.

CO: Well, you did well because of who you are, not because of how you performed. That's the person that you were then. And that’s certainly the person that's in this beautiful book that you have written that we want to talk about. And when you remember those difficult days, was there a moment for you before we talked to you, because it went on for months, right? This is seven months you were in that airport. Where was the moment when you realized that you were essentially stateless? That you had no place that you could call home?

HAK: When they, will the Cambodian Airport Authority, refused my entry and sent me back the same day, on the same plane to the Malaysian airport, I knew that I'm in a big and deep problem, a serious one. And then I tried to reach UNHCR as it is responsible for refugees. And they came back with the no answer. That's when I knew that I'm out of options. I’m out of solutions. I'm stateless now. I cannot go anywhere. And they advised me to turn myself in to the authorities, the airport Malaysian authorities, and they would contact my embassy and send me back to Syria.

CO: What did you fear most about being sent back to Syria?

HAK: The uncertain future. I did not know exactly what was going to happen, except that the minute I land Damascus Airport, they are going to detain me, jail me investigating, especially after the media storm I had at the airport. They knew that I'm against the regime. So I knew, at one point, I may disappear.

CO: Instead, the only option you had, it seems, is to be in an airport, in Kuala Lumpur Airport, and not leave. Can you just explain how that came about? I know it's the story of your book [chuckling] and the story of that time, but how did you come to be living in the airport?

HAK: I left Syria for the first time in 2006 to the United Arab Emirates. And I was legal with a work permit until 2011, when the Syrian war starts. And that's when I refused to join the army. We have a mandatory military service. I refused to join the call because I did not want to be a part of a killing machine to kill my own people or to destroy my own house. So when I refused the call, they refused to renew my passport. Therefore, I lost my work permit in 2011 and I become illegal and run hiding, hunted by police, immigration, local authorities there. In 2017, they captured me, they detained me and they deported me to Malaysia because it's one of the few countries around the world who accept Syrians on arrival visa. And Malaysia, because they are not a signatory of the 1951 Refugee Convention, so I could not seek asylum there. I tried to leave to Ecuador. They did not allow me to board. A week after that, I tried to go to Cambodia, and the Cambodian authorities sent me back to Malaysia. Malaysia did not accept my entry again, and that's when I stuck it there.

CO: Did you have any idea at that point that you would be there for seven months?

HAK: No, but I knew that I'm in a deep, deep problem. I knew that it's going to take long. I did not know what to do during the first month? I was trying everything. I sent emails to all the embassies in Kuala Lumpur, foreign embassies, western ones. I sent emails to all NGOs around the globe, to United Nation. I even sent emails to foreign minister or homeland ministers. I sent emails to parliament members. I knew that none of this is going to work, but I did it anyway because I was desperate and hopeless. Then, when they all came back with the negative, with, sorry, we cannot do anything, then I decided I'm going to make it an American-style now, [CO chuckles] let me make... let us make some noise.

CO: All right, make some noise. This is... this is really the most amazing turn in this book, is that you had this... you kind of looked at this old barely working cell phone of yours, and you realized this was your only tool, your only weapon that was going to dig you out of the hole you were in. What power did that little phone give you?

HAK: It's amazing. People, they don't need to write a sign anymore and go outside to protest. They can create the wave, and they can be a part of the change while they are enjoying their life in their living rooms. I was never a social media type of guy until the airport time. I thought about it before I started my campaign. I thought that I'm not going to be another Syrian guy who was crying for help. I need to bring smiles to people to show them that we are still normal human people asking for a normal and minimum human rights. I remember at day 35, I Googled myself and I found three results. Two of them were related to my tweets. [CO laughs] And I was desperate at that time. And I thought, what's the point of doing this social media? It's not working. Then, three days after that. I Googled myself and I end up with 27,000 results.

CO: Good heavens!

HAK: Yeah.

CO: But then it just kept going, right? Thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, eventually millions of people who were aware of your existence at this airport, this man who couldn't go forward, couldn't go back and was just looking for a place to live.

HAK: True! And to be honest, what helped was Tom Hanks movie, “The Terminal”. People, even media, all normal visitors at the airport, they kept asking me the same question. It was there in each and every media interview, even our both photos, me and Tom Hanks together. Did you watch “The Terminal” movie they would say? I always had the struggle to drag them into the serious topic. It's not what I'm doing at the airport. It's why I am at the airport.

CO: You describe in the book so many encounters. I mean, just hundreds of them of people wanted to get selfies taken with the man at the airport, women who asked you to marry them, people who just wanted you to help them because they were stuck at the airport for some short period of time. People who just... you just... you were a close celeb and they wanted to contact you. But there were very few people who had any concrete solutions or offered any concrete help to you. That was the problem, wasn't it?

HAK: True. And I have been on a media all over the globe. And they sent me sometimes an article with the languages I could not recognize. And I was talking about at that time saying, is this Klingon? Yet, the only help, official help, I get the only lawyer who stood up and sent me documents to sign, who said I'm going to represent you for free, was Canadian. Despite the rumours that people were saying that I'm a country shopper and I'm just... I just want Canada. That's true, I want Canada. Every refugee around the globe wants Canada. That's... that's not a secret. But the only solution any human beings offered me were Canadians. Even... I'm not a huge fan of governments in general, but the only government... government who is not related to me in any way, country who I never visited before and I have no one there, a government who sent me an immigration officer to a Malaysian detention jail to interview me and accepted me were Canada. And that's why my story is not only the Syrian war story, it's also a country called Canada, and people called Canadian. They are the second half of the story. Because of them, I am now permanently safe. I'm no longer look above my shoulder to see if I'm being hunted from immigration or law enforcement. To feel safe as to feel human again, to have a value as a human being, to have a right, a voice.

CO: You're listening to “As It Happens”. I'm speaking with Hassan al Kontar, a Syrian man who now lives in Canada, is now a permanent resident of Canada. But he spent many months stuck in an airport and he became known as “Man in the Airport” -- and has written a book of that title. And he's with me here. And you talk about the Canadians who were working behind the scenes trying to get you refuge, but all kinds of people where you call them, where there are devils and angels who would... there were a lot of devils who made your life miserable. I want to ask you first about all the little angels who did things for you in order for you to survive in the airport, the people that brought you little things to eat or coffee, [laughing] which seems to be very important to you? How important... how important were those people for your survival?

HAK: They restored my faith in humanity. I had a group of seven to eight teachers, they were mainly Canadian and American teachers who used to work and teach in Kuala Lumpur. And when they hear the story, they organized themselves. And every week or two weeks, they would come to my place at the airport and bring me clothes, food, hygiene and coffee.

CO: And a kind of... kind of, I guess, basic note, you had... you have quite a relationship with coffee, don't you? [laughing] I mean, there is... and so you were... you were always looking for a cup of coffee. What is it... what is it with you and coffee?

HAK: It's not the coffee itself, it's what it's presenting. Those who dance on the edge of life and played with it on a daily basis, they find excitement and joy in the smallest thing in life because it has been taken away from them. So the smallest things become their hint of being normal people and free people. That's what coffee is for. Sometimes, it was all what I could think of when I was in detention jail in Malaysia for two months. Each and every morning, I told myself if there was a cup of coffee and cigarette, things would be easier. The smell, it reminds me of the time I used to wake up early in the morning and have a cup of coffee with my mother before I go to university or to my work. And at the airport, I could always feel that I could start my day, my day begins when I had my first cup of coffee. That's what it presenting for me.

CO: Right. But those were the good moments. But there's so many individual moments you describe in this book. There’s petty mean things that people did, people with a little bit of power, who could have just helped you along. And sometimes did. But so many others who just made your life miserable in small and large ways. How... how debilitating was that the power they had and how they used it against you?

HAK: That's where I describe my problem and my struggle with the system, with what I call the system. And people, and individual people, thrilled by the little power they have, yet, they have the authority to determine your future, to say if you can live or die. The Turkish employee supervisor, for example, it was an individual call, and it changed the course of my life forever. When he denied my entry, he denied me boarding to that Turkish airline. I still have a problem with it. I still have a problem with what I call a broken system. That's where since 2011, I feel like there is a new type of racism, a geographical one. That's what we as Syrians were facing. They are doing it to prove something to themselves that they can do. They are important. They have something to be proud of. So they control your life.

CO: When you speak of geographical racism, and that's an extraordinary term, there were people who were trying to reach through that geographical racism and get you out and give you a cross... get you across the border. And one of them you've mentioned is Laurie Cooper, a Canadian woman who became very important to you. And I just want to play a bit of... she was speaking to us in October 2018. This is after you had spent seven months in the airport, and then you were now in detention in Kuala Lumpur. And she spoke to us after you were arrested in Malaysia. Here's Laurie Cooper.

SOUNDCLIP

LAURIE COOPER: You know, I have never met Hassan, but I feel that I know him. I mean, we've gone through a lot together. We've spoken on the phone. We've had video conversations. He has nicknames for me. I feel like he's my son. And his mother has reached out to me, and his sister, to thank me for what I'm doing. But I just, you know, I'm a Canadian mom. [chuckle] Never thought that I would be in a position where I am fighting for someone's life.

CO: That was Laurie Cooper speaking to us in October 2018. What goes through your mind when you hear that?

HAK: [deep sigh]People who has multiple choices in their life, they... they have the choice to travel the world, to enjoy their life. Yet, they decided to choose to help others. If that's not a heroic act, I don't know what heros are?

CO: What does she represent to you? What does Laurie Cooper mean for you and your life?

HAK: I think for me, hope has a face. That's the face of Laurie Cooper and those who helped me. I remember the first day they detained me in jail. They took me to a police station first before they transferred me to an immigration jail. At the police station, it was around 3:00 a.m. in the morning. They took all my clothes and I was sick at that time. I was disappointed and angry. And because I called her so many names, one of them was 007 because she seems to know everything before it happens. Then, at the wall of my cell, I saw 0007, and I smiled. Zero, zero, zero seven. I smiled and said, oh, you are here too! I took it as a sign, and I knew that everything is going to have... to be OK.

CO: Laurie was somebody that you could talk to. And you were able to reach her. You told her what you needed, what was going on in your life. at the same time... and she calls herself a Canadian mom. You had your own mom, you had your own family in Syria. And you were, as you write in the book, very worried about them. And you didn't want them to know what you were going through. Why did you... why did you want to shield them from your experiences and your struggle?

HAK: They were still in the war zone. Here's the thing, In my culture as an arab, I'm the oldest. I’m the older son. I'm the one who's supposed to take care of my family. Yet, for years, they were the ones who took care of me. Actually, the ticket to Ecuador, the money I got, it was from my mother and my sister. They sold their golden necklaces to send me the money. And then I lost the money because they did not allow me to board. That kind of sadness, being ashamed of not being able to help them or to play my role as oldest son is what made me hide things from them. I did not tell them that I was stuck at the airport. They came to know from the news itself.

CO: Because there are millions of people that were following your story at the airport. There was news stories everywhere. You couldn't hide that. How did they feel about that publicity around you?

HAK: For the first five days, I could not hear my mother speaking, she was only crying. And it took me five days to convince her that maybe as human beings, our darkest and lowest moments in life could be our motive, too. And if you... maybe this could be my opportunity. This is my main battle in life now, and this is how I'm going to determine my future. So they were always supportive. And actually, what bring them on board was not me. It was individuals from around the world who were sending me messages, praying for me and showing solidarity. So that's when my family understood that maybe he's right, Maybe this is his opportunity. She is a mother, she was worried about my situation. And she is the one who sent to me during the summertime to an English summer school each and every summer when I was a kid. My late father used to take me to our olive farm, too, to help me physically face life. And he was to grab a book and read to me each and every night. So I think they gave me the necessary tools I used later on at my fight at the airport.

CO: You're listening to “As It Happens”. And Hassan al Kontar has joined me from British Columbia to speak about his new book, “Man at the Airport”. And this is a story about this remarkable time he spent fighting for dignity and for a home. And he was trapped inside the Malaysian Airport for seven months in 2018. And now, when you arrived in Canada, did you feel that this was unreal? That when that plane docked down, did it seem like this was the place that was going to be home?

HAK: I still cannot believe it sometimes, even now, after two and a half years, sometimes I cannot still believe that I'm looking into this absolute purity and I'm enjoying it. And it made me ask that the serious questions, why me not others? Imagine this, Carol, the morning I was in detention jail. One day, in the morning, I was in detention, the very same day at night I was in Whistler, Canada.

CO: What was it like when you woke up in the morning when you could go out and breathe air, what was it… [chuckling] What was your relationship with the fresh air?

HAK: I did not sleep for a week. I kept... and it was the first night it snowed. It was at that season. So I kept running outside with my cup of coffee, looking at the snow falling and telling myself, man, act cool. It's not the first time you see the snow. Don't be like a child who is wearing his Christmas clothes. But I could not help it. I was a child. And I was so happy I could not sleep for days sitting next to the woodstove watching the snow. Absolutely beauty. It's…. it's still surreal. I think for us as... as adults, we have goals. fairy tales are for kids. In my case, yes, my fairy tale become true. And I was living my fairy tale in Whistler, having a food on my table, having a family nice family, feeling safe inside that wood cabin. It was a page of childhood book. And I felt sorry because I could not share this with my family. I... 40 years when I used to call my family, I used to call them for one or two minutes, a voice audio call. But after years, I called my family for the first time a video call, and I could see their faces. Because I wanted them to see the happiness printed on my face. And that's I'm safe now. That's what Canada meant to me. I know people sometimes, especially with the pandemic, they complain about certain things. And I feel them. I hear them. But for me, it's something different. It's not about having a country with no mistakes. Such a country doesn't exist. It's about having freedom. It's about having democracy value, human rights, independent judiciary, free media. That's what we have in Canada. And that's what we should appreciate. The debate about the vaccination, the test, the pandemic, the taxes, the health care, it's it was there before, it's here now and it's going to be there in the future. That's not a bad sign. That's a good sign that the people are alive and they are keeping attention and keeping an eye on the officials, which is great. But what we have here is the dream for millions and millions. At the beginning of the pandemic, I asked people not to panic and to think about people in the refugee camp who has no access to any health care, who has no school, who's living in tents under heavy weather during winter or summer. Yet, they are still alive and they are refusing to let hope go. And they are not going to have a vaccine in years. Instead of fighting over a toilet paper, [CO laughs] let’s celebrate being human beings. And that's what the book was trying to show them. In their lowest moments, giving up is not an option. We always hear that phrase, but what is it?

CO: I just want to end this with a bit of a reading from your book. And this is... I want you to read the part at close to the end, when you're finally on the plane to come to Canada and you... and you arrive and you're able to finally make a connection with your mother. And it's... do you think you could read a bit of that to us?

HAK: Finally, I made the call I'd been waiting to make for years, listen, don't cry where the first words I say to my mother. She cried anyway, as I knew she would. I did, too, though I tried hard not to. My mother did not say much, I love you, I miss you [Speaking Arabic]. I could feel their joy -- a genuine happiness my family had missed for too long. For the first time in years, my call to my family was bringing them smiles, not tears. And that was priceless. I don't remember what the flight attendant looked like. But I do remember asking her for a cup of coffee, and to keep it coming. I looked up to the left side of the sky through the small window. And he was there, my father. I've spoken to everyone but you, I said. I'm safe now. That Canada is making me soft. [laughing] We’re used to being tough as Syrians. [sniffle] Yeah.

CO: You have to finish now.

HAK: [chuckling] He smiled at me. I felt his words. It was hard and unique what you've done. Not the situation all Syrians are going through the same. But the way you handled it. You remembered what I taught you. This is the difference in your story. Not the story itself. One more thing. Don't forget who you become during your march towards your dream. It's more important than the dream itself. Don't forget your family or your people. Don't forget those you left behind. There is no end for as long as you are alive. The end is nothing but the start of a new beginning. The end.

CO: Hassan, this is a beautiful book, and it's making me weep, too, [laughing] thinking about your arrival. And you're very welcome here. And I hope all your dreams come true as you become a Canadian.

HAK: Thank you very much for having me again. Such a pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.

CO: Take care, Hassan.

HAK: Thank you. You too.

TS: Hassan al Kontar is the author of "Man at the Airport," about the seven months he spent stuck inside a Malaysian airport. He's now a permanent resident in Canada. He spoke to Carol from Abbotsford, BC. You can find more on his story on our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

May 24, 2021 Episode Transcript

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