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The AIH Transcript for September 7, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Four more years. A swing state Republican tells us she's standing firmly behind U.S. President Donald Trump. And if he's not re-elected, Pennsylvania and the country will go to ruin.

CH: Never Trumper. A former broadcaster in Wisconsin says she teared up when she saw Kamala Harris on the Democratic ticket and hopes Black voters like her will now get behind Biden.

CO: The old college try. Having a normal semester seems pretty much impossible for incoming university students, but one freshman says she's determined to live life on campus no matter how many of her friends are staying home.

CH: Slow commotion. When you're playing a piece of music that takes hundreds of years to get through every chord change is newsworthy. We hear about one that occurred this weekend as slowly as possible.

CO: Recession proof. A father's annual gift of single malt whiskey is finally paying off. Matthew Robson says he is using those undrunk drams to finance the purchase of his first home.

CH: And you've got mail. When an Arizona University student received her pre-med dissection kit at home the other day, it contained a lot more than scalpels and forceps. She shares her decidedly 2020 unboxing adventure with us. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio that imagines it was an eye-opening experience.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: U.S. Election: Pennsylvania

U.S. Election: Pennsylvania

Guest: Judy Phelps

CH: It's not difficult to figure out where the U.S. presidential election will be won or lost -- just follow the candidates. In the coming weeks, you're going to see them spending a lot of time in Michigan and Pennsylvania. And today, both candidates for vice president swung through Wisconsin. President Donald Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, visited an energy plant in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Here's part of what he had to say.

MIKE PENCE: When this president stands up for faith and family and the American flag -- I stand with President Donald Trump. When this president stands up to the radical left, I stand with President Donald Trump. [Crowd cheers] And when this president stands up every day and fights for American workers and Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! -- we stand with President Donald Trump. [Crowd cheers]

CH: U.S. Vice President Mike Pence speaking earlier today in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Another key Rust Belt battleground is Erie, Pennsylvania. President Trump narrowly took the Democratic stronghold in 2016 by a few thousand votes. And some say Pennsylvania, which is older and Whiter than the United States as a whole, could help tip things in Donald Trump's favour again. Judy Phelps is a retired social worker in Millcreek Township, Pennsylvania, on the outskirts of Erie. And that's where we reached her.

CO: Judy, have you made up your mind yet about who you will vote for in November?

JUDY PHELPS: I made up my mind in 2016. The answer is yes.

CO: And that would be?

JP: That would be Mr. Trump.

CO: Have you ever voted for a Democrat for president?

JP: Yes, I did. I voted for Obama twice. And then when it came to a choice between Donald Trump and Hillary, I chose Donald Trump because I thought that he would be providing a better future for our country as far as the policies go and families and all kinds of things.

CO: And you have not been disappointed in four years?

JP: Well, you know, nobody is perfect. And I know that I'm a social worker. I know that nobody's perfect. But he has done so many things even way more than I thought he was going to in his promises, he's done more than that. And I'm very very happy. As a matter of fact, I volunteer at headquarters.

CO: Well, what is it that appeals to you then? What is Trump offering that you want?

JP: I like the religious freedom that we're going to be able to keep. I like the fact that families will be staying together. I like it that people will be responsible for themselves. And now I'm also comparing what the Democrats are offering -- they're offering way more stuff that isn't even reasonable.

CO: So what do you think will happen if Joe Biden becomes the president? What are you saying is your vision of the America under Joe Biden as president?

JP: I think that the country will go broke because they're offering all kinds of benefits or they're wanting to offer all kinds of benefits for household expenses, for education, for all kinds of things. And it doesn't make sense because people need to be motivated to take care of their own responsibilities.

CO: But don't you think it was important during this period of time where we're dealing with massive unemployment in your country, in my country, others -- where we're dealing with the consequences of this pandemic -- that there would be social support for those who can't provide for themselves?

JP: Right. I certainly believe that. But I'm looking at a bigger picture that say this pandemic had not occurred, then what would happen with a country when they are in a more socialized -- it's not socialized -- [asking someone] Cliff, what's the name of it?

CO: Are you thinking of the word socialism?

JP: Yes. That's what I'm thinking of.

CO: You know that that is not the platform of Joe Biden. Joe Biden is not a socialist. That is not what he is campaigning on by any stretch.

JP: Well, and I know that. But I don't think that he is capable of being responsible and making responsible decisions on his own. I think that he would be the puppet of his party.

CO: Let's just talk about the pandemic for a moment. You have a situation where 25 percent of those who have died have COVID-19 in the world -- more than a quarter of the people died of COVID-19 in the world are Americans, but you have only four percent of the world's population. What do you think of the way that Donald Trump has handled the pandemic then?

JP: I think that he's done very well. He cut off the travel into this country from Russia. You know, different things have been shut down and he didn't waste any time to do that. As soon as he suspected that there was a problem, he notified the population and started to take care of things.

CO: That's actually not true. He said a number of times as the pandemic was growing in your country, he said that this is a problem that was going to go away, that it was never going to get to where it is now, that it was under control. He said that well into the pandemic, even as other countries were declaring that this was a serious state.

JP: Okay, I've heard all kinds of things. And to be honest, it's hard to know what parts to believe. But what he's done is more important than what he says sometimes. And so I try to go by what he does.

CO: Where do you get most of your news -- your knowledge of what's going on?

JP: From Fox News -- was basically it.

CO: Just in your own area you had an overall unemployment rate, in Erie, was at a historic low. It was four percent. Now it's up to 15 percent. Lots of people suffering, right. So what is it that Trump has done for Erie? Because I know you've said that you liked his approach to the economy and what he's going do for the economy.

JP: Okay. I like the fact that he is a manager instead of a politician. And I knew that from way at the beginning. And I knew that he would look at problems or situations in a different way than a politician would. You know, there's a lot of unemployment because of COVID. And I think that he's making efforts to bring factory and manufacturing back to the United States. And he's doing what he can to increase the number of jobs in the country.

CO: And you don't think that Joe Biden would do that?

JP: I don't trust Joe Biden.

CO: It comes down to that, doesn't it, that you just don't trust Joe Biden?

JP: It does. It does. If he had to be president the way I've seen him on TV, he can't even finish a sentence without making a blunder. Biden is just not ready to do anything. I am embarrassed for Mr. Biden. I'm a social worker and I hate to see what's going on with him and how he's potentially going to crash when all this is done.

CO: But why do you think he's going to crash?

JP: Because he's not making sense. When people ask him questions, he doesn't answer directly or he says, you know, 'let me think, wait a minute. Just a minute. I think that my interview is done.'

CO: And you feel that Mr. Trump is answering things clearly, is that what you're saying?

JP: Between the two, he is by far better.

CO: How do you feel about remarks that Mr. Trump allegedly made about veterans calling them losers and suckers?

JP: There are things that he does and says that I do not like -- I do not like. But I also pay attention to what he's doing as far as the veterans. Now, he's got a policy where the vets, if they can't get services through the V.A., that they can come to their own doctor and he's bringing people back from overseas who are in wars that have been going on forever. I have talked to a vet, somebody that I've known for a while, and he overlooks a lot of what's going on also. He's saying that he's getting better service medically and that things are getting better.

CO: Let's just say from our point of view in Canada, watching what's going on in the States, we have seen Donald Trump call out the National Guard to camouflage troops have gone into Portland, Oregon, to suppress demonstrations. We've seen the peaceful protesters teargased in Washington as he walked to a church carrying a Bible. We have heard him say that police should not be too nice to those that they arrest. We've seen him never speak about the police officers who have shot Black men and women. He has not criticized white to armed groups who have engaged in violence. Do you think that Donald Trump has divided your country?

JP: No, I don't. And why? I think that his policies are more straightforward and positive compared to what the Democrats would offer. And so that's what I like.

CO: Judy, thank you for speaking with us. Bye bye.

JP: Okay, bye.

CH: Judy Phelps lives in Millcreek Township, Pennsylvania.

U.S. Election: Milwaukee

Guest: Denise Callaway

CH: As we mentioned, the Republicans aren't the only ones zeroing in on the Rust Belt. The Democratic nominee for vice president, Kamala Harris, also visited Wisconsin today. She briefly spoke to reporters after visiting the family of Jacob Blake, the 29 year old Black man who was shot in the back seven times by police in Kenosha last month. Here's what she said.

KAMALA HARRIS: It's really wonderful -- I mean, they're an incredible family. And what they've endured and they just do it with such dignity and grace. And you know they're carrying the weight of a lot of voices on their shoulders.

REPORTER: And what was the message that you shared with them...

KAMALA HARRIS: Just wanted to express concern for their well-being and, of course, for their brother and their son's well-being. And to let them know that they have support.

CH: Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris speaking to reporters in Milwaukee earlier today about Jacob Blake. She later met with Black business owners in the city. Turnout from Black voters in the state of Wisconsin took a steep drop in 2016. And heading into the election this November, Senator Harris and the Democrats will need the support of the Black community. Denise Callaway is a former broadcaster and outreach leader for the local school board in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

CO: Denise, what is it that motivated you to volunteer for the first time in this campaign?

DENISE CALLAWAY: Well, Kamala Harris is just such an incredible candidate. She is well qualified. She certainly has the ability to not only do the job of vice president, but if she needed to step in on day one, she would step in and be an outstanding president. It is for me personally, very historical. I am also an African-American woman, and I think it's really important that she was selected as vice president, not because she is simply African-American, but because she was the best candidate possible.

CO: But she is the candidate as the vice president nomination. She is not the president. The president candidate is Joe Biden. How much support do you have for him?

DC: I have a lot of support for Joe Biden. I supported Joe Biden in the spring primary here in Wisconsin. He was my candidate. So I was a Joe Biden fan to begin with. The selection of Kamala Harris is something that really moved that support to a new level for me.

CO: What are you hearing from people in Milwaukee? There's some reports, just streeters, talking to people around the city and the Black community who are saying they can't get turned on by Joe Biden. That they feel in many ways, as they did in that 2016 campaign, 2015, when they just they didn't go out to vote. And many of them are saying they're not going to go out to vote again. Do you think that Joe Biden is really appealing to Black voters in Milwaukee?

DC: I think he is appealing to Black voters. Again, I haven't spoken to every Black voter in Milwaukee. But when I talk to people in my neighbourhood, when I talk to people who are members of my sorority, there is a feeling that people know that Joe Biden is a candidate who has historically supported issues that are important to the African-American community. Health care, the economy, job creation, those are things that Joe Biden is the only candidate who's talking about these issues that are important to us. And while I don't know that there is that level of excitement that there with Barack Obama, there certainly is a level of understanding that if we want to see these issues move forward, Joe Biden is the candidate who's going to do that. That hasn't happened in the past three and a half years. And Trump doesn't have a plan to address many of these important issues in the African-American community. So we want to see progress. This is our candidate.

CO: You are very much aware, I'm sure, more than I, that the Black Lives Matter is a very powerful movement right now, and that there is a great deal of emotion and concern about how Black people are treated by police. There are videos circulating of Joe Biden's Senate speeches from the 1990s in which he warned of predators on the streets and his support of laws that put so many Black men in prison. A lot of people are remembering that as they make a decision. Don't you think that is going to have an effect on people's decision?

DC: Well, one of the things that I remember, if we're taking a look at what happened in the 90s, you know, 30 years ago is that there were a lot of African-American legislators who also voted for some of that legislation that looking back on it was something that perhaps didn't work out the way people thought it would. But what I'm looking at is the arc of Joe Biden's career. And he has an arc of public service that has always been towards benefiting other people. When I look at my other option as a voter, that's a candidate, Donald Trump, who's had 40 years of failure.

CO: I just want speak of the woman we just interviewed before you who is supporting Donald Trump. She voted twice for Barack Obama and now she's going to vote for the second time to support Donald Trump. She said of Joe Biden that she finds him an embarrassment. He says he can't finish a sentence without blundering, that he's incoherent. And she feels that that is going to have a big impact on people's decision that he's not articulate.

DC: I don't think anything could be further from the truth. Joe Biden is someone who is very deliberate about what he says because he means what he says. He's someone who is very calm in the way that he speaks because he has a plan for the way things need to be done in this country and he's going to move those plans forward. Joe Biden is someone who has experience making things happen. And to me, that's someone who's very deliberate. I'm not sure what she is seeing. Joe Biden is someone who has a lot of compassion. And people who are compassionate, sometimes are thoughtful in what they say. He's not looking for the one line zinger that he's going to tweet out the next day. He's being very deliberate about what he says to the American people because he knows and understands that when you're in a very serious place in this country, what happens over the next 50-some days is going to shape our democracy.

CO: Just want to ask you about finally about the state of your country right now and looking at it from the outside, how divided it is and that Donald Trump seems to be, his strategy is to be the defender of White America and that there is a very strong racial divide in this election. What are your worries about? What are your concerns about where this is going and where this is going to be, no matter who wins the election, if it's possible to heal that division?

DC: I think America is a country that has lived through multiple times when there have been deep divisions that have fractured our collective soul. People think of the civil war but also the civil rights movement is one where this country was very much divided. But there's one thing about Americans that I know and that Joe Biden knows, and that is at the end of the day, when you want a country where everyone is successful, where everyone has the opportunity to succeed...

CO: But my question is, do you think that the divisions that are -- because they're stark, aren't they? They really are. There are some real wounds going on. Do you think it's possible for that to be healed?

DC: Of course it is if we have the right person in office to do that. We cannot have a president who has done what we've seen over the past three and a half years and particularly over the past three months -- and that is to try to spread fear and hate amongst us of each other. That's not what America is. My uncles fought in the Second World War. They fight for this country because they believed in this country and they believed in our ability to do better. I believe in that very strongly too. But I think it makes a huge difference about who our president is and whether or not that is someone who seeks to heal or seeks to divide. Joe Biden is a person who seeks to heal. And Donald Trump seeks to divide.

CO: Denise, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

DC: Thank you.

CH: Denise Callaway is a former broadcaster and outreach leader for a school board in Milwaukee.

[Music]

Whiskey collection

Guest: Matthew Robson

CH: Each year on his birthday, Matthew Robson's father has given him the same gift, and each year it comes with the same condition: he can't actually open it. Mr. Robson is now 28 years old. So he has 28 unopened gifts, but he knows what they are because of their distinctive shape. They are bottles of highly coveted aged Macallan single malt whiskey. And he's now put that collection up for sale. We reached Matthew Robson in Taunton, England.

CO: Matthew, how old were you when your dad bought you your first bottle of whiskey?

MATTHEW ROBSON: I was probably about half a year old.

CO: [Chuckles] And your dad bought you a bottle of whiskey every year after that?

MR: Yes. So my birthday gift every year was a bottle of 18 year old Macallan whiskey. So I currently have 28 eight bottles of 18 year old Macallan.

CO: Because you are 28 years old now.

MR: Yes, correct.

CO: And as you point out, for people who don't know much about whiskey. This is no ordinary whiskey that you have.

MR: No, it's an 18 year old Macallan. And each bottle is a limited release and each bottle has the year that it was distilled in. So the idea was being that when I turned 18, if dad got a bottle each year, the bottle I would receive on my 18th birthday would be distilled in 1991, which would obviously be the year of my birth. So it would be in my 18th birthday, I would have 18 bottles of 18 year old Macallan.

CO: Okay. And so what was the deal?

MR: The deal was I never, ever, ever even think about opening them.

CO: [Chuckles] This is what your dad told you -- you could not open them.

MR: I think that was probably from when I started learning about what they were and kind of how valuable they were. I think I was probably about 12 or 13. And he instilled it into me very young that you're never to open these. And I'm quite glad I didn't.

CO: Okay. But when you're 12 or four or whatever it was, when he was making this instruction, it probably didn't matter as much to you. It must have mattered by time you're 18 that you wanted to taste that whiskey.

MR: Yes. Yes. He always said if you want to have a taste of one, let me know. And you know, he'll try and buy another bottle of one of the early ones. But obviously, that's quite expensive to do now. So luckily, when we were on a business trip with dad up in Speyside in Scotland, we were staying in a hotel and they had a bottle of the 1991 edition, which was the bottle I got given when I was 18. So we sat down and we had a couple of rounds of whiskey. And it was a very, very special moment.

CO: Was it smooth?

MR: It was, honestly...words can't describe how good it was. It made me realize how I have held out from opening any of the other bottles.

CO: [Chuckles] Okay. Why did your dad start this tradition of buying you a bottle of Macallan every year?

MR: Well, he started with my older brother and just kind of got onto that idea of 18 years, 18 bottles of 18 year old Macallan. But the other reason was he quite enjoyed the fact that he works in the whiskey and beer industry, so the materials that he supplies Macallan with were used in the making of that whiskey. So that was a main reason each year was kind of a Macallan. And I think that it was the only bottle left on the shelf when he went down to buy a bottle to celebrate the birth of my older brother. He strictly said that we don't open them and keep them as a little nest egg so we can use the money for whatever we need in the future.

CO: Okay, what have you been told this collection of 28 bottles of 18 year old Macallan is actually worth?

MR: Well, I think we worked out that my father had spent around 5000 pounds over the past 28 years on buying the bottles. And when I went to the whiskey broker who is selling it, he said that they would retail 46000 pounds.

CO: And so you're planning to sell this now?

MR: Well, as of two hours ago, I have actually just accepted an offer on the bottles. So they are in the process of being sold. Yeah.

CO: Can I ask you how much they went for?

MR: They went for 44000 pounds.

CO: What are you going to do with that money?

MR: Well, me and my girlfriend, Sandra, are probably looking at buying a flat or a house. So that money is going to be going towards a deposit and the legal fees for buying a new place.

CO: When you think about, and it must cross your mind that now that you cut 44000 pounds in order to buy a flat for yourself that that could have been ruined at any point if you had opened any one of those bottles.

MR: One night-out could have ended it all if I came back and decided to open one of those bottles. But I am very, very glad that I had dad's voice ringing in my head.

CO: Because it's a perfect set. Is there another set like this, any place else?

MR: Well, funny enough, he has done it for my older brother and my younger sister. So my older brother has three more bottles that are of earlier years. So he has 30 bottles. And my younger sister has 21 bottles.

CO: And both of them did the same as you. They never opened those bottles.

MR: Yes. Never opened it. And they've kept it.

CO: Just one other question about your birthdays, did you get anything else for your birthday every year except the bottle of whiskey?

MR: Yes, I did get other things for my birthday. But this was kind of like a little present in the background. But, I did gather presence. [Chuckles] I wasn't neglected.

CO: What a lovely investment. It could have been gold, but it was whiskey.

MR: It was whiskey. Yeah. It was a newspaper article or a newsletter from one of the whiskey companies, and it said we've outperformed gold on the stock market and on the FTSE as well over the period. [Chuckles] So it's certainly done very well.

CO: You're turning 29 in a few days, right?

MR: Yes, in I think nine days, I believe.

CO: And you're playing to buy a house and you have this wonderful nest egg to do that. Will your dad buy you a fine bottle of whiskey or treat you to something in order to celebrate this?

MR: I think it should be the opposite. I think I need to buy him a nice bottle of something to say, "thank you."

CO: I think so too. Matthew, cheers. Thank you.

MR: Thank you very much.

CH: Matthew Robson's 28 bottle collection of 18 year old Macallan whiskey sold today for 44000 pounds. We reached him in Taunton, England.

[Music]

Part 2: Pre-med student receives a fetal pig in the mail, vacuum-sealed and ready to dissect

Western University frosh week

Guest: Mylan Nguyen

CROWD: [SOUNDCLIP: Crowd sound]

CH: It might not sound much different from a typical residents move in day at Western University in London, Ontario. There are orientation leaders wearing painted coveralls, chanting as a student with his parents starts to unload the car. But if you see the video, you'll see that everyone is wearing masks. And there's no doubt that the university experience at schools across the country is going to be a lot different this year. Students have been moving into residents at Western since Thursday, and there are concerns about how the university will balance students desire to socialize with the need for safety during COVID-19. Mylan Nguyen is a first year student who moved into her dorm this weekend. We reached her in London, Ontario.

CO: Mylan when you hear that tape, was that the sound of your arrival as well?

MYLAN NGUYEN: Exactly. Same situation for me as well. When I arrived, the [inaudible] all of them came around and, well, cheered me out of the car. And then they took me back to get my registration ready and my room key and all that. But it was very fun. Super energetic. Lots of music. Yes, same situation as well.

CO: It was fun. But how important was it for you to get a reception like that when you arrived?

MN: It would definitely great. I really appreciated it for sure. I had a morning move-in, so I was a little nervous coming in through, especially with meeting new people and making sure everything's settling. So it was just really fun. It helped me get out of my anxious nerves and just got me really pumped for the day.

CO: You know, thinking of you arriving at Western, which was the university I went to many, many years ago, too many. [Chuckles] It's also, you know, so different, isn't it? I mean, I know feeling nervous on that first day, we all felt that way. But the additional anxiety is that to our arriving in the middle of a pandemic. How are you reacting to that?

MN: Well, I'm very happy with how Western's running with their COVID procedures, like, for example, in that cafeteria we all have to sanitize our hands beforehand. And then we also have to wear gloves on top. And the people in the cafe working are handing us our food, so it's not buffet style where we're picking up everything, everything is usually prepackaged or server option. So that's really nice. And I like how everything has seating arrangements. So in the cafe, there's a maximum amount of people to a table. And it's always sanitized before and after you're in and out. And masks are on every time you're out of the dorm room. So I feel we're trying our best to keep the social distancing measures for sure. That's bringing down my anxieties right now. Yes.

CO: Would you have rather gone to university online as so many other students at different universities are doing? I mean, I think Western is taking a somewhat different approach and that they want approximately 30 percent of courses to be in-person to get that experience. Why didn't you opt for something where you wouldn't have this kind of contact at all?

MN: For me, I personally enjoyed that Western had that option of the mixture of online and in person. For myself, I thought I wanted to start my first year experience in campus and online, having a new environment and changing up. I understand we are in a pandemic, so it's very important to wear a mask and do our measures and sanitize and keep our distance from others. But I feel online there's a bit of that separation in connection. And finishing high school, I'm ready to move on and try living on my own for a semester would be very cool. So, yes, that's why I chose.

CO: So how much of your courses will you actually be in a room with other people?

MN: So I have two courses with in-person tutorials, which are smaller groups, so I believe it's a max of 20 students in a very big room. Whereas I don't have any big lectures that usually take up like 400 students. Those are all online.

CO: I don't need to tell you that Western is famous, some would say infamous, for its parties. And there are already some violations of the rules or apparent alleged violations of parties in the London area. How concerned are you that even though you're taking precautions and you like the way the dorm is and the way the university has set things up to be safe that others might be more cavalier about this pandemic than you are?

MN: I'm definitely concerned about that situation, of course, but I just hope Western as whole, Western's patrols and other students know better because we all are paying our tuition and residence fees to be on residents so it would be extremely unfortunate. So I'm very concerned, but hopefully I have faith that our campus staff and team are regulating this for sure.

CO: Yeah, but we know that universities in the United States have already had a problem with this, with infection breakouts because of young people who are, you know, 'it's not going to happen to me. I'm not vulnerable to it or I don't care.' Even we saw what happened with on Instagram with one Western fraternity saying that they were going to party on down -- we think it ought to be a downright crime to rob the Frosh of the late night mini raves and partying. That's a quote. And they've since cancelled that. But that seems to be an attitude out there, right?

MN: I wouldn't say that would be the majority attitude for sure. Most of the students I've talked to, it's been one full day since I've moved in, and the attitude is very different. So I wouldn't say that's majority.

CO: So you're going to have to just go on faith that your fellow students are as responsible and mature as you seem to be about all this?

MN: That's what we can hope for.

CO: How are your parents feeling about sending you off to university during a pandemic?

MN: They were definitely apprehensive at first as well, but reading through all the regulations or policy. And when my mom helped me move in, understanding and talking to the officials about how Western is approached the COVID precaution measures, she is quite comfortable. But we're not too far away -- only two hours away -- so if I ever need anything, it's just not too far of a drive.

CO: So if there ends up being kind of a shutdown, where will you go? Where's home?

MN: Barrie, Ontario.

CO: So not far to go. Mylan I wish you a successful and a happy, as much as it's possible, year at Western. Thank you for speaking with us.

MN: Thank you so much for having me.

CH: Mylan Nguyen is a first year student at Western University. We reached her in London, Ontario.

[Music]

J35

CH: J35 isn't done yet. In 2018, scientists followed the orca as she carried her dead calf through the waters off British Columbia and Washington State. She carried it with her for 17 heartbreaking days. The two years since haven't been easy for J35's pod. The whole southern resident orca population is short of food. But this weekend, J35's tail was spotted and there was a new little tail swimming at her side. CBC's Vancouver Stephen Quinn got the details this morning from Deborah Giles, a whale researcher at the University of Washington's Centre for Conservation Biology.

DEBORAH GILES: The calf was seen and seemed to be rambunctious enough and keeping up with members of all three pods that were here in this region -- not yesterday, but the day before. And so that that was just fantastic to see.

STEPHEN QUINN: All right. And how old is the calf? Do we know?

DEBORAH GILES: It would had been about a day old. The J pod had been seen two days prior, so on the third without that calf. And so, either on the 3rd in the evening or sometime on the 4th.

STEPHEN QUINN: And do we know whether it's male or female?

DEBORAH GILES: No. The animal did not roll over -- that I know of, that I've heard of. And so that's how you can tell if it's a male or a female, you have to see the belly.

STEPHEN QUINN: I mean, we know the southern residents are struggling. How significant is this single birth?

DEBORAH GILES: Well, it's an important birth. It's an important birth for that family, for sure. And then it's an important birth for the population because this group of animals has not had a successful birth since 2019. And so that's a huge amount of time to go by. Usually this population this size and this type of animals should be having about six to eight calves be born every year and live. And that's just not the case. That hasn't been the case for a long time with the southern residents.

CH: Deborah Giles is a whale researcher at the University of Washington's Centre for Conservation Biology. She was talking to CBC's Vancouver, Stephen Quinn, about the orca J35 and her brand new calf.

[Music]

Arizona dissection kit

Guest: Julie Taraborrelli

CH: If you're going to college or university this year, you will be doing more at home and less on campus. Julie Taraborrelli was ready for that. She's a 3rd year pre-med student at the University of Arizona. She was prepared to take all of her courses online and to write exams at her home, at home, on her computer every two weeks. She was even prepared to connect with her classmates and professors virtually. But there was one course she wasn't prepared for: Physio 201. She had that realization when she received a box in the mail last week. We reached Julie Taraborrelli in Tucson, Arizona.

CO: Julie, what did you first think when you got this box? What did you think was in it?

JULIE TARABORRELLI: I honestly, I thought it was going to be maybe like a fake dissection kit, maybe like plastic or just something like a toy almost that you can, like, learn from. I didn't know it was going to be real. [Chuckles]

CO: What did what was their first clue that there was going to be something real in that box?

JT: At first you can kind of smell it and then one of my friends she opened it up and it was like an eyeball. I was like, "oh!" [Chuckles]

CO: A real eyeball?

JT: Yeah, it was a real cow eyeball. And then I thought it was just maybe be like smaller parts, like, you know, an eyeball. And then there was also a brain. So I thought it would be small parts like that.

CO: And the brain was a sheep's brain, was it?

JT: Yeah, it was a sheep's brain. And then the pig showed up and it was like a completely different idea.

CO: Okay. The pig showed up. You want to tell us about that?

JT: Yeah. So basically, we didn't really know what was in the box. I just didn't expect anything like that. I thought it was going to be, like I said, like something fake that we can just mess around with because I would have never expected them to, like, ship us through the mail, like real animal parts. So when we opened it, we wanted to like record it because it was going to be a little surprise because I thought it was funny. And we saw that there was an eyeball and we saw there was a brain. And then we saw there was a whole pig and everyone was just kind of shocked. But everyone was like laughing because it was like funny but we were all in, like, shock -- we didn't expect that at all.

CO: When you say all of us, who are you talking about -- your roommates?

JT: Yeah, my roommates.

CO: Okay, so when you say a pig, what did you get in the way of a pig? What did they send you?

JT: Like the whole the pig -- the whole piglet. Like a little baby -- like the whole thing.

CO: Okay. And so what did your roommates say about this?

JT: Well, they were all like, well, it's going to stink when we open it. That's the first thing we said. But we were also just shocked. Like if we were in person, we would expect to dissect something like that. We just never expected they would send us it in the mail.

CO: Your roommates are also in the same program of physiology and medical sciences, is that right?

JT: Yeah, they are. Two of them also received a pig. So we have three of them.

CO: What do you what are you doing with these pigs?

JT: Oh, right now they're just sitting in the hallway. They're just in the boxes in the hallway. I'm actually dissecting mine tomorrow over Zoom.

CO: Okay. What kind of assistance will you get from your professor when you start to dissect this pig?

JT: So they put us in lab groups. They're usually smaller. And so it's small and people on the Zoom call. And I'm guessing she's just going to like director us on what we're supposed to be doing. But I don't know how it's going to work out to be honest. I have no clue. I'm the first one of my roommates to dissect it.

CO: Where are you going to do this?

JT: I think I'm going to do it on my patio so it doesn't smell inside the house. Like on a table or something. I'll bring a table out there, put like plastic over it.

CO: Okay. And do you have everything else you need for dissecting the pig and the brain and the and the eyeball?

JT: Yeah. The box came with, like, goggles and like gloves and like the tools you need to cut it and stuff.

CO: You know, if you had been in class, these are the same things you would have been working on. You'd have dissected these same things, right?

JT: Yeah, we probably would have dissected the same things with like a lab partner and we would have been in person and we wouldn't have to have a pig in our house.

CO: What are your neighbours saying about having the three piglets? Is it three of them? Or just two of you got piglets?

JT: It's three.

CO: Okay, so three little piglets outside your door. What are your neighbours saying about that?

JT: I don't think the neighbours even know about it to be honest. We only have one neighbour because our apartment complex is like weird. So we haven't really seen them, to be honest.

CO: Well, do you think that may have changed since you put this on TikTok?

JT: Maybe. Who knows if they know it's me?

CO: But lots of people know you have three little piglets sitting outside your door and waiting to be dissected. And so when did the others get their opportunity to work on their projects?

JT: I think my other roommate also has it tomorrow, just at a different time. And my other roommate has it on Wednesday.

CO: And what do you do with these the parts after you have dissected the brain and the piglet?

JT: I believe that we can just throw them in the dumpster, from what I understood.

CO: Okay. Well, I guess it was not how you were expecting to spend your September week.

JT: Oh, of course not. [Chuckles]

CO: All right, Julie, I'll leave you to it. Thank you.

JT: Thank you so much. Have a great day.

CH: Julie Taraborrelli is a third year student at the University of Arizona. We reached her in Tucson. And we have more on the story, including some photos on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Jacob Blake

CH: For the past two weeks, his name has been chanted on the streets and spoken in news broadcasts. But this weekend, Jacob Blake spoke for himself from a hospital bed. In August, the 29 year old Black man was shot seven times in the back by a police officer in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The father of six was trying to get into his car at the time. The shooting sparked a new round of demonstrations against anti-Black racism across the US. And Mr. Blake's family says the shooting has left him paralyzed. Here's Jacob Blake speaking on the weekend.

JACOB BLAKE: I just want to say to all the young cats out there and even older ones, older than me, it's a lot more life to live out here man. Your life and not only just your life, your legs, something that you need to move around and move forward in life can be taken from you like this man. And I promise you, the type was [censor bleep] that you will go through, staples -- I got staples in my back, staples in my damn stomach. You do not want to have to deal with this [censor bleep]. 24 hours -- every 24 hours is pain. It's nothing but pain. It hurts to breathe. It hurts to sleep. It hurts to move from side to side. It hurts to eat. Please, I'm telling you, change our lives out there. We can stick together, make some money, make everything easier for our people out here because there's so much time that has been wasted.

CH: That's 29 year old Jacob Blake, the Black man who police shot seven times in the back in Kenosha, Wisconsin. He was speaking for the first time since the shooting last month from his hospital bed.

[Music]

Chord Change

CH: Maybe you need a break from shaking your booty. Maybe there's someone in the high school gym you want to slow dance with. Or maybe you just want to chill out. But sometimes you really want to hear a slow song. Well, in a Halberstadt, Germany, there is a slow song playing all the time. It's not exactly Careless Whisper. But if it's just slow you want, it doesn't get much slower. The song started playing on September 5th, 2001, and it will end in the year 2640. It's a piece by John Cage, which the composer specified should be played as slow as possible. So the people who develop this project decided the eight page composition should last 639 years. That makes every slight change in it a rare and momentous event, which is why a masked crowd gathered in Halberstadt on Saturday to see and hear the first chord change in seven years. Two people lowered new pipes into the automated organ, adding two notes to the chord that's been playing since 2013. It was a subtle but dramatic moment. Here's what it sounded like. [Drums playing]

CH: Just kidding. Here is what it sounded like. And it won't surprise you to learn that we've edited this for time. [Organ sound] [Crowd claps]

CH: As you heard, they introduced a G sharp and an E. Making a haunting, not exactly melodic seven note chord. And if that wasn't enough of it for you, you have until February of 2022 to visit Halberstadt to hear it in person before the next change. And don't worry, it will retain its power. After all, it's an extension chord.

[Music]

Part 3: Shower less? Yes, even during a pandemic, says one doctor

Feature: James Hamblin

Guest: James Hamblin

CH: James Hamblin opens his book with a powerful admission. Five years ago, he stopped showering. That might be a jarring thing to read during a global pandemic when we've adopted exhaustive and exhausting hygiene regimens. But James Hamblin is a doctor, as well as a lecturer at the Yale School of Public Health and a staff writer at The Atlantic. And he's thought a lot about cleanliness. Dr. Hamblin assures us he still washes his hands regularly and might rinse if he has bedhead or visible dirt on his body. But he does question the multitude of products were being sold to wash, moisturize, and smell good. And those questions appear in his book, Clean: The New Science of Skin. He wrote it pre-pandemic, and it was released earlier this summer. He wants us to consider what it actually means to be clean, especially now. We reached James Hamblin in Webster, Wisconsin.

CO: James, what can you remember about the last time you had a nice, good, lingering, lathery shower?

JAMES HAMBLIN: [Chuckles] You know, it faded away. It faded from my life. So there was not and I don't recommend that anyone quit cold turkey because it tends not to go well. So this was something I just sort of weaned myself off of slowly.

CO: When you say that you don't recommend going cold turkey, we should point out to listeners you are not in the room with me, so I can't independently verify anything you say. But if you were, would I know that you have not really lathered up in five years?

JH: I'm told no. And this is by people who I trust to tell me if I did in fact smell that you come to smell okay. You know, when you're stopping deodorants, when you're stopping body washes, you go through periods of being oily and smelling like body odor. But eventually those periods become more and more infrequent.

CO: And this you have from people who love you telling you this.

JH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I pursued this, you know, as a personal and journalistic voyage. So I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing anything. And I have colleagues and friends and loved ones who can attest to all of it. You know, you don't look and smell the same as after you go through an elaborate skin care regimen or even, you know, have lathered yourself in fine smelling soaps. But you don't smell terrible either. You're just sort of in equilibrium and you smell, as I'm told, like a human, okay.

CO: [Laughs] That could be a lot of things, actually, James, when you think about it. So how long did it take before the flora and fauna on your skin found some kind of equilibrium?

JH: It was somewhere between six months and a year that I started to feel like I was pretty reliably not going to need the emergency deodorant that I was carrying in my bag and that I felt like I was going to look generally okay. And that will probably vary for a lot of people. So it's not a prescription. But when you start talking about how you've done this, it turns out a lot of people have quit at least specific things like deodorant or shampoos. And it seems like that's about the timeframe where people -- where we sort of let our bodies break out of these cycles of, you know, washing and then oiliness and whatever exactly happens with the microbes during that time, it doesn't happen overnight.

CO: We'll get to the microbes in a moment. But on the product level, and I do know other people who have in some ways cut back on products. I know there's a no poo movement like no shampoo. And people realizing that outbreaks of rashes and eczema and dry skin was being caused by the very things that were supposed to be good for your skin, right?

JH: Yes. For some people at least, you know, I'm in no way saying that all soap is bad. Washing your hands is very important as a health intervention. For some people who are doing just fine and enjoying their daily regimens and not having any skin issues, you know, I say more power to you. But there are plenty of people out there kind of getting in these cycles of having flares of acne or eczema and trying to, you know, use more and more products and clean more and more aggressively. And there's a big segment of that population who finds that actually things get better when you taper off. And it doesn't necessarily mean going to zero, but it can mean thinking sort of the opposite way that we normally think, which is instead of finding another product or another treatment to apply you know, just trying to break out of the cycles that we're in.

CO: Anyone who is doing inventory in their bathrooms like I did and finding how many products are there, just the soaps and then the creams to deal with the dryness from the soaps and the shampoos and the cream rinses and the detanglers and this and that. And then products just for men and for women, just for kids. How do we become so obsessed with being clean?

JH: It is a brilliant story of marketing, which I tried to detail in the book. But there's much more to it than I could even get into. But, you know, even hundred years ago, it was not the norm to have multiple products, even for everybody to have a store -bought soap and to have running water, which was only, you know, becoming commonplace. And so we really quickly transition from the idea of a soapy bath being an occasional luxury to a daily necessity, you know, within a few decades and also during that time transition from kind of the idea of a family having one bar of soap being something that was, you know, nice to have and the norm to everyone has multiple products lining the shelves, lining the bathtub. And it's basically a process of segmenting and growth by the big corporations that have sold us these things and found ways to make products slightly differentiated so that they are maybe a little different colour, a little different scent, a little different concentration and making home-made products out of them.

CO: But isn't that, though, based on an awareness over those, about 100 years, of germs, of infection, of needing to be clean, of trying to keep our bodies clear of things that could infect a sore or create the conditions of a virus -- isn't that the whole purpose that I mean, maybe the marketing piled on top of that, but isn't there a basis for that need to be clean?

JH: Absolutely. And that's where it started. You know, it started with hand-washing, with washing, you know, contaminated surfaces, washing after we might, you know, use the bathroom, making sure that we don't have any bodily fluids, we're not bleeding, there's not vomit or feces on us that would spread disease. That's being too graphic but those are the sort of medical considerations when you're really talking about not spreading disease. And then we really quickly took that into the realm of signifiers of hygiene, whereas things like, you know, removing the oils from your hair, things like smelling like flowers and having white teeth, things that are actually not at all related to disease, that are sort of signifiers of, well, if you look a certain way, you must be of a certain class and station who can afford to do the hygienic practices and therefore you are, "clean." But it really quickly devolved away from actual disease prevention practices and toward wealth and class signifiers.

CO: So are you saying basically that BO is BS?

JH: [Chuckles] No, I mean, I think it's very real. I think we've all experienced it ourselves and have ridden with someone on a subway who is experiencing it as well. So, I don't deny that reality. But, you know, it is the product of bacteria living off of the oils that we're secreting from our skin and producing that smell. And it's logical to think that we did not evolve to smell in ways that would repulse other people and to need to apply aluminum deodorants under our arms every day lest everyone want to get away from us. So, you know, the idea is that it's those bad smells, the objectively disgusting ones are due to imbalances of the microbes in those areas, which, you know, we're meant to produce odors, we're meant to smell certain ways. And once you sort of find an equilibrium in that microbial ecosystem, you don't smell terrible offensive to people.

CO: I'm speaking with Dr. James Hamblin and he is the author of the book Clean: The New Science of Skin. And James, I want to ask you about those microbes, because, I mean, reading your book and I would look at my arm, which seems like a banal place, but it's a jungle in there, isn't it?

JH: Yeah. And, you know, not so much your forearm as like the underarms and growing the flexeril creases, the places that are oilier have more microbes, but they are all over us all the time. So. We are never without the skin microbiome. We wouldn't want to be. It's a normal feature of us. And, you know, we're really just starting to understand the depths of it, the importance of what those microbes are doing and how to keep that microbiome healthy. But it does seem clear that the answer is not to try to simply clear cut the forest as much as possible.

CO: So what are those microbes doing?

JH: That's a great question. Well, they feed off of our oils. They help us produce smells. The ways that we smell that we are signaling to other human beings and other, you know, the way that dogs can recognize us, the way the dogs can even sometimes detect diseases. They are keeping equilibrium that seems to be something neutral, essentially, such that it prevents the invasion of one species that would cause sort of flare of, you know, inflammatory skin diseases. I'm speaking vaguely because we don't entirely know. But we know that we have them all over us and that they are playing a role in maintaining our skin's homeostasis.

CO: So what can you tell us about that? I mean there's a lot we don't know, but when we suffer from eczema and dystrophic skin conditions is it because that forest has been clear cut or that it's been damaged in some way? It's lost its sort of balance?

JH: In part, it seems to be. At least that's one trigger for it. So there is a certain level at which some people have a genetic propensity. There's another level at which some people will be experiencing acute stress, not eating well, not sleeping well. These things that we know affect, you know, outbreaks or affect the functioning of all of our body, but manifest on our skin. And then there are different topical things that we may or may have not done that have perturb that biome or changed it in a way that has not necessarily caused an infection in the traditional sense, but has just kind of shifted the proportions such that the person's immune system gets flared up and gets triggered. And the answer we usually have found is to, you know, sometimes try topical antibiotics, we will try to suppress the immune system with steroids. But something that is exciting and new is the idea of possibly just trying to rebalance that microbiome, to, you know, undo the trigger.

CO: You're talking about probiotics for the skin.

JH: I hesitate to use the term because as exciting as the concept is, the products that are out there right now, you know, are kind of shots in the dark. We don't know that they're working. Exciting idea, but it remains to be proven in terms of what actual bacteria we put on there or whether we would just be putting products on there that themselves are sort of prebiotic that would feed the bacteria, that would change their propensity to grow in certain places. So a very exciting concept. Not something I would spend money on just this moment.

CO: But when you think of spending money on things, I mean one of the biggest industries has got to be around acne and especially teenagers, young people suffering horrible embarrassment from something that happens to someone because of hormones principally. And they put all kinds of things on the skin, as I did, in order to deal with acne. Is there anything that can reverse that? Is there any way to find a microbial imbalance in skin that might help all those young people?

JH: You know, I think it would be hard to do worse than we're doing against acne right now. Most people, and I too, just tried kind of everything that you could, including washing really aggressively -- antibiotics. There is hope absolutely. Because we have not been able to trace acne to a single bacterial infection, a single type of bacteria being present or not present that will be able to reshape that microbiome into something that at least is less prone to acne. And, you know, that's just sort of like this missing piece of the therapeutic puzzle where it at least involves thinking in the other direction and at least maybe trying less hard to kill microbes and leaning away from antibiotics and from aggressive cleaning regimens that are quite possibly perpetuating the cycle of imbalance.

CO: What's been the reaction to your book?

JH: You know, I think if people take the time to read the whole book, they're pretty into it. But the reaction to people from people who haven't is a fair and I would say deserved skepticism. I hope that by the end of it, though, people have sort of gone along with me on this journey to trace our beliefs and our practices and come out at the other end sort of questioning what is really necessary and what is not. I think a lot of people who are in contact with me, having already read it, were already sort of on board. They were the early people to read the book because they had already lived through this sort of experience. So I'm interested in the next wave of people who came to it with extreme reluctance or skepticism.

CO: I have Dr. James Hamblin on the line and he is the author of a book called Clean: The New Science of Skin. I know you have working on this for some time and experimenting with it. But I wonder if there was a better time to have released your book than in the middle of a pandemic where people are obsessed with hygiene?

JH: Yeah, well, you know, in some ways we are and in some ways we aren't. I think there's long overdue attention to hand-washing, to not touching your face, rubbing your eyes, picking your nose, to being conscious of where you're directing your respiratory droplets, not coughing and sneezing on people or anywhere near people. But at the same time, a lot of people are working from home, working partly remotely, spending a lot more time at home as it is, and being more relaxed about some of the well, not hygiene practices, but self-care practices that weren't really necessary in the first place. So I think we're sort of doubling down on the important health driven behaviours and maybe being given a little more leeway to question the ones that were social and cultural customs that we didn't really enjoy or need in the first place.

CO: What do you make of the fact that your president -- well, the president of your country -- has decided to make it a personal crusade to increase the pressure of showerheads in order to have more water and to have a more intense shower experience.

JH: Yeah. And that goes hand-in-hand with a lot of germophobia, germophobic tendencies that he has shown from reluctance to shake hands with some people, to being into fast food because apparently of the consistency of its production where he believes that the standardization of the process is more likely to keep germs out.

CO: He's also suggested people might drink bleach in order to deal with COVID-19.

JH: Yeah. Yeah. You know, without psychoanalyzing anyone, there are clear tropes with purity and cleanliness that become very easily tied up in toxic ways toward thinking that, you know, you just want to eradicate all foreign entities. And throughout the history of the idea of cleanliness, it has been used maliciously, it has being used to justify racism and xenophobia. And we've called other groups unclean since before we had germ theory as a way of just differentiating ourselves and justifying plunder. And I think that is where you start to see very clearly a propensity to just think of all germs are bad and purity is good as this hyper simplified version of the actual way that we should be thinking about our skin and our microbial worlds.

CO: And you said that people who are rather like minded to you are people who already kind of disposed to these ideas, will embrace your book. But do you think that there are a lot of people like Donald Trump out there?

JH: Oh, yeah. And I think, you know, this is not a book that is advocating anyone change. I am certain that people will read it and come out the other end saying, well, I learned some things and I'm going to go right back to doing what I did before and I'm fine with that. This was an exploration for me of the culture, of the marketing and of the science. And it turns out that there is a lot of value to some people in the rituals, you know, whether it be a feeling of safety and protectiveness that even that they may know is false or whether it's just, you know, the grounding ritual in the morning of getting into a hot shower and lathering up and smelling the way that you're always used to smelling and doing the routines you're used to doing. You know, there can be real value.

CO: I'm sure people find pleasure in that, right. I mean, the Romans had the baths and the bathhouses are an old concept too. And the Egyptians had different ways of socially bathing. And we go to spas and have facials and coffee scrubs and all kinds of things. I mean, it's kind of relaxing, isn't it?

JH: Absolutely. And I think you mentioned coffee scrubs and we're seeing vitamins pop up in all kinds of products. The overlap with food and the culinary world, I think is not incidental in that, you know, there are some people who can eat beans and salad and the same cold cut sandwich every single day, and they would find someone who's a gourmet chef to be wasteful and decadent and was spending too much time and money and worry. But that gourmet chef may derive a lot of pleasure. Sure, it certainly does from that activity, you know, there's social bonding and stuff that far transcends the grams of protein per dollar of what you're consuming. So it's really complex.

CO: Just one last area that we haven't talked about, which is important, and that's, I guess, the consequences of all these products that are used. Because the other thing that we become aware of is all the micro plastics that have passed through our hair and our showers and gone into the system that are damaging the environment. So just maybe say a bit about what do you think the larger ecological consequences are of all this scrubbing?

JH: You know, when you add them up, they are vast. You have microbeads, microplastics, you've mentioned there's macroplastics, of course, the bottles themselves. There's the carbon imprint of shipping these products all around the world. There are petroleum based detergents, which, of course, have their own environmental issues. There are preservatives in many of our products that help them last longer, be more shelf stable, but which end up being washed down the drain. There are anti-microbial agents like triclosan and which made its way into our soil and water and into our bodies. And so no single one of those things is, you know, absolutely destroying our planet. But taken together, these are not insignificant things. And if people are curious about cutting back or they never enjoyed certain practices anyway, and would like to try cutting back, you know, I think there's good reason to think you could save some time, money, water and have some environmental benefit as well.

JH: But you're not saying to people they should do this. Would you recommend it, would you say to people, especially during a pandemic -- do you think that this is a time to actually experiment with not showering?

JH: This is not the right time to experiment with hand-washing. Any less, it's never the right time. We should always be hand-washing quite a lot. But if people are working from home and if they find the book to be a compelling social history that makes them want to experiment, it might be actually a great time.

CO: And you're going to continue -- this is no longer an experiment, this is a lifestyle, I guess.

JH: I am a convert. Yes.

CO: James, it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

JH: Thank you so much for having me.

CH: Dr. James Hamblin is the author of Clean: The New Science of Skin. He's also a lecturer at the Yale School of Public Health and a staff writer at The Atlantic. We reached him in Webster, Wisconsin. And you can find more on Dr. Hamblin and his ideas on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Who is Banksy?

CH: I am not Banksy. Just thought I'd get that out there. There are, after all, so many people who are or have been rumored to be the British street artist at this point, why not a seemingly Canadian radio show host? Granted, it's a less plausible theory than some. For example, some think Banksy is the comic book artist and Gorillaz co-creator Jamie Hewlett. There's the theory that he is in fact Thierry Guetta, the subject of the Banksy documentary: Exit Through the Gift Shop. Or is it Bristol born Robin Gunningham who's been spotted in locations where Banksy originals have appeared? Or could it be Massive Attack frontman Robert Del Naja, who insists he and Banksy are just friends. But it turns out it might not be a Massive Attack that holds the answer.

VOICE: This is an art attack. This is an art attack. This is art attack. [Music]

CH: That's right. The latest draw-jopping theory is that Neil Buchanan, host of the British children's show Art Attack is Banksy. It's a picture perfect hypothesis that's been picking up steam thanks to the mentality espoused by one Twitter user who said, quote, "This is straight in the believe without question category." Unfortunately, it turns out Mr. Buchanan has some questions, starting with "Where did anyone get this idea?" In a statement released this morning, he said, quote, "There is no truth in the rumor whatsoever." But we're not so sure he'll easel his way out of this one. After all, isn't that what someone skilled in the art of disguise would say?

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September 7, 2020 Episode Transcript

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