April 12, 2021 Episode Transcript
The AIH Transcript for April 12, 2020
[host]Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden[/host]
Prologue
CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.
CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is "As It Happens".
[Music: Theme]
CO: After police kill another Black man in Minnesota, a city councillor demands answers from the force - and immediate change.
CH: Doctor's orders. Medical workers in Myanmar are being targeted by the ruling military - and one doctor tells us he checks an arrest warrant list every day, fearing he'll be next.
CO: A little bird told them. A Saudi aid worker is sentenced to 20 years in connection to an anonymous Twitter account - our guest says he's by no means the only Saudi whose privacy has been breached.
CH: Bracing for the worst. Kingston, Ontario has seen far fewer cases than the rest of the province - but with COVID numbers rising, the medical officer of health says his city is now trying to help those areas that didn't keep their numbers down.
CO: An unsung hero gets his due. 80 years after her father's death, a BC woman learns that the Canadian pilot died saving a school full of children during the second world war - and she's honoured that he's now being honoured.
CH: And... it can be challenging talking to a web designer. But an American scientist thinks he's learned their jargon -- and hopes that, by converting spider webs into music, he'll eventually be able to talk directly to spiders themselves.
CO: "As It Happens," the Monday edition. Radio that knows spiders prefer subtle tunes to smash hits.ts.
[Music: Theme]
Part 1: Minnesota Shooting, Kingston COVID Students, Canadian Pilot Memorial
Minnesota Shooting
Guest: Wynfred Russell
CH: The death of George Floyd is on everyone's mind in Minnesota right now. And now another name is being chanted: Daunte Wright. Yesterday, the 20-year-old Black man was shot by police during a traffic stop in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota -- just minutes from where the trial of Derek Chauvin is underway. Since then, people have protested, the national guard was called in, and now the governor has placed the Twin Cities under a curfew. Today, police told reporters that the officer who shot Daunte Wright had made a fatal mistake.
[sc]
TIM GANNON: As I watch the video and listen to the officer's commands, it is my belief that the officer had the intention to deploy their taser but instead shot Mr. Wright with a single bullet. This appears to me from what I viewed in the officer's reaction and distress immediately after that this was an accidental discharge that resulted in the tragic death of Mr. Wright. I have asked the BCA to conduct an independent investigation into the shooting and death. I expect they will submit their findings independent of me. I'm also stressing that I do hope for the community to be patient and allow this investigation, criminal investigation, to be completed.
[/sc]
CH: Police Chief Tim Gannon - explaining how he believes an officer grabbed her gun by mistake and shot Daunte Wright. Wynfred Russell is a City Council member in Brooklyn Park, which was near the shooting. We reached him in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota.
CO: Mr. Russell, how did you react when you heard the Brooklyn Center Police chief confirm that the shot that killed Dante Wright was an accidental discharge?
WYNFRED RUSSELL: Well, very dismayed. And again, I'm, you know, angry and saddened by... by all of this. And to think that he apparently mistook her gun for a taser is just really shocking. And it brings to the forefront what kind of training are these police officers getting?
CO: From what you've seen and heard, we have some video, we have some witness remarks that have been made. Do you have any sense of what happened that led to Dante Wright's death?
WR: No, I don't have all of the details. I mean, I just... it just seemed to me like a very routine traffic stop, at least based on the briefing that I received. And it seemed to have gone... gotten out of hand.
CO: But a very routine traffic stop that led police to say that they were going to arrest him. They had a warrant. What can you tell us about that?
WR: Well, they said they had a warrant for his arrest. And so that's what prompted them to try to arrest him. But they have not given any details, at least I have not heard any details, as to what the warrant was for.
CO: The man's mother says that the very routine traffic stop was that he had air fresheners in his rearview mirror. That's what he was saying to her. He was on the phone with his mother when this happened, right? And the... the... some media is reporting that the warrant was that he failed to appear in court on two misdemeanour charges. How would that escalate to the point where he was going to be arrested?
WR: That... that is very troubling, too. We heard a similar thing, and we've read a similar thing, too. The police, again, have not gone into detail as to how that all escalated to the level to where this young man lost his life. There's a lot of... there's a lot of things that need to change as a result of this. I mean, we saw what happened with George Floyd, and now we see what's happening now. There's still a lot of... a lot of things that... that we have to change.
CO: The police officer who killed George Floyd, Derek Chauvin, we know is on trial right now as we speak. Just this is at the very moment when all this is happening. Yesterday was the trial of that police officer. Just how tense are things in Minneapolis right now?
WR: Things are pretty tense, especially within the minority community, communities of colour. The anxiety level is very high. And so we need to... to support our mayor. One of the things that I'm trying to do and support the authorities, support the mayor, but also make it safe for everybody and give people an opportunity where they can express themselves, where they can peacefully protest. As you probably know, the governor has issued a curfew for this area. And the emotions are really wrong.
CO: And you mentioned there's a police culture, a mindset that has to change. But I'm wondering. It appears that Dante Wright was trying to get away from the police when he was… he was shot. As a Black man, is it quite possible that he was afraid of the police who were arresting him?
WR: Yeah, of course, I mean, I think that just that emotional, impulsive reaction, folks are afraid of the police. Folks are afraid of the police. You know, especially Black men. So, I mean, it makes sense to me that you will be afraid, you know, as a Black man myself, you know, and try to, you know, try to leave. I mean, even if it's something as, you know, as simple as what he may have been accused of. You know, I mean, it's just that sort of impulsive reaction. Now, to get killed, you know, because of that, you know, I don't understand what part of the training... and I don't think is part of the training, but I know in, you know, our city... and I'll be having a briefing later on with our police chief, too, to find out why would somebody get that shot unarmed? You know, apparently, he was unarmed and fleeing from the police. You know, why shoot him, you know? So there must be a conscious recognition by the police, you know, of the essence that Black life, you know, demands more than just, you know, the latest training or some sort of adherence to... to the best practice protocols, you know? You know, so, you know, there has to be a dramatic paradigm shift in police and community interaction. This cannot continue to happen, Carol.
CO: Right. And the police chief said, Tim Gannon said, that she just accidentally took out her gun instead of her taser, and she shot him. But at the same time, he was stopped for these misdemeanours. George Floyd was stopped for a phoney 20 dollar bill, and he lost his life. Is there something else wrong with the reasons why people are arrested, and that leads to this escalation?
WR: Well, that's what, you know, that's what would be demanding answers. And we can just all look at the training and, you know, and think that, you know, it cannot just be left up to training or some sort of high-tech tool to mitigate these tragic outcomes, Carol. I mean, the police culture and the mindset, like I said earlier, it must change. It must change. And it must change, not yesterday. It must change now. You know, as a Black man, as an immigrant Black man, you know, in this country, I'm afraid. I'm always, you know, afraid and, you know, even though I'm an elected official. But people are afraid of the police, and we cannot live this way. It cannot, you know, it cannot continue to have to go on like this.
CO: Mr. Russell, I appreciate speaking with you and the things you had to say, so thank you.
WR: Thanks, Carol, and thanks for having me and thanks for the concern.
CO: Mr. Russell, I appreciate speaking with you and the things you had to say, so thank you.
WR: Thanks, Carol, and thanks for having me and thanks for the concern.
CO: Take care.
CH: Wynfred Russell is a City Council member in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, outside Minneapolis. And you can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.
[Music: Prog rock]
Kingston COVID Students:
Guest: Kieran Moore
CH: This weekend, in the Kingston region of southeastern Ontario, someone died of COVID-19. It was the region's second death from COVID since the start of the pandemic. As we told you last month, local medical officer of health Kieran Moore has had success controlling the coronavirus in his area. But variants of concern and a provincewide stay-at-home order are posing new challenges. Last week, Dr. Moore declared an outbreak in Kingston's university district - and a popular park along the waterfront has been closed. We reached Dr. Kieran Moore in Kingston, Ontario.
CO: Dr. Moore, the last time we talked, I'd say you were cautiously optimistic about your situation in Kingston. So how are you feeling today?
KIERAN MOORE: Well, it's a little disconcerting. We've had an increase in cases over the last week, and it's principally in younger people in our community, but it's certainly putting the community at risk. Our case counts are around 47 per 100,000 over the last week, which is the highest we've ever been at. But still, luckily, we have only two people in hospital, and we haven't had a significant impact on the health system. But we'll have to take it day by day.
CO: When we spoke last, you said it was tragic, but there had been only one death. You had 20 cases in Kingston, and you had gone to great lengths to make it that way. It wasn't just a coincidence. So now you have another COVID death, and you're monitoring 135 active cases. Why do you believe those numbers are going up in Kingston?
KM: Well, it's a rising tide raises all ships. We're not immune, given the number of infections that are spreading across Ontario. And given that there's still travel, there's still workers that have to go back and forth across Ontario. Our borders of KLFNA are so porous that it's natural that we'll have to be affected by this virus. It just reminds us that this is... it's an Ontario response. Everyone in Ontario has to try to stay home, stay local, save lives. And if we don't, all of us will have the repercussions, sadly.
CO: You gave a press conference last week in which you described a call that you received from an anesthetist who was waiting for an air ambulance transporting a patient from Toronto. This person saw something quite alarming. Can you tell us that story?
KM: as a regional tertiary care hospital, we've been taking patients from the GTA. And they land typically along the lakeshore, and then the patients are brought across the street into the hospital. And as this anesthetist was assessing a patient about to transfer them across the street, you know, they were ventilated as a result of COVID. They just looked at our Breakwater Park and saw the number of younger people aggregating, and some not wearing masks. And that juxtaposition of people clinging to life and those that are... have a lightness of being and socializing really had her text me and call me immediately. And as a result, we've worked with our city. We've worked with the university. We put in measures to decrease, you know, socialization in our community, just to remind us all that this virus can quickly enter our communities and take lives from us if we don't adhere to best practices. Stay at home and save lives now.
CO: When we spoke with you last, we had a lot of response to that interview because people were in part envious, admiring of what had happened in Kingston and the reasons why you had such a low infection rate. You were telling us about how you had a mandatory mask order before even it was said that the masks might be helpful. You had everyone on the same page, you said. It was just remarkable. But now, does it... does it feel like you're paying the price for the fact that that didn't happen elsewhere, that you're getting, as you say, a rising tide lifts all boats, that you are being affected by what others failed to do?
KM: [deep sigh] Well, those are difficult questions. I do wish if we had to look back that we put in public health measures sooner. We put in our public health measures of five people or less indoors or outdoors March 12th. That was in anticipation of St. Patrick's Day week, which is often a large outdoor event here. And we continued it. Really, looking back in hindsight, as a province, earlier public health measures would have put us in a better position. But these are terribly difficult decisions to make, especially when livelihoods, the economic impact, the social impact is included. So this is in a retrospective scope that I'm saying this now.
CO: Well, I mean, yes, hindsight is 20/20, but at the same time, you saw that you had seen what was happening elsewhere. This is what you told us in the last interview, that you anticipated that this was necessary because of what was happening in the United States or in Europe, and you put those things in place. Why do you think others didn't?
KM: I do think they're difficult decisions to make. And Section 22 orders aren't always the best means at a population level to do it. It would have been best if it was done earlier at a provincial level. But these are complicated decisions, and I understand that.
CO: Do you think the province is doing enough? We got 4,400 new cases in the province today. They have announced schools are going to stay closed after the spring break, which is this week in Ontario. Do you think that the premier, Doug Ford, did enough?
KM: Well, I'm deeply saddened at the position that we're in. And these case counts that we're seeing and the impact on the hospitals. And us having 20 patients from the GTA ventilated in our intensive care unit is really telling us we... we are going to have to do more. There are a number of public health measures that we haven't done yet that other jurisdictions have done. If the numbers keep increasing, we're going to have to do more public health measures like limiting travel between regions, and/or curfews. Those are going to have to be considered. They've been effective elsewhere in other provinces and in Europe. But because if we're not getting a handle on this very aggressive third wave, which is mainly driven by these variants of concern which are so much more infectious, we'll just have to put more public health measures in play. Simply vaccinating will not give us the time that's necessary because it will be one dose, and it takes two weeks to get immunity. We may need to have further actions.
CO: All right. We will be watching. And I think many people would like you to be [chuckling] the person making decisions, Dr. Moore. But thanks for speaking with us.
KM: Kay. Pleasure as always, Carol. Thank you.
CO: Bye-bye.
CH: Dr. Kieran Moore is the Medical Officer of Health of Kingston, Frontenac, Lennox & Addington Public Health. We reached him in Kingston, Ontario.
[Music: Folk]
Canadian Pilot Memorial
Guest: Anne Underhill
CH: For all of Anne Underhill's life, she's known that her father died in a plane crash during the Second World War. Ms. Underhill was an infant at the time. But 80 years later, she would receive a call from a BBC reporter that would give her an entirely differently picture of RAF pilot Robert Coventry. It turns out, her father is considered a hero in the small town of Quedgeley, England - for saving a school full of children. And now they're putting up a memorial at the site of the Canadian soldier's plane crash. We reached Anne Underhill in Victoria, British Columbia.
CO: Anne, I understand you never knew your father. What were you told as a child? What were you told about how he had died?
ANNE UNDERHILL: I was told that the plane crashed coming back from a practice bombing raid. And something went wrong with the plane, and it crashed. And he lost his life, along with another member of the crew.
CO: All right. Now, let's go forward 80 years from that moment when he died, and you got a phone call from the BBC. What did they tell you?
AU: All I knew extra from that was the fact that he... he crashed it so that it would not run, crash into the school. And I... I didn't... I never knew there was a school there. I mean, that... that was not part of the story that I was told as a child, yeah.
CO: So you learned that he had... because he was the pilot, he had --
AU: He was the pilot, yes.
CO: He managed as it was crashing to divert the plane away from the school?
AU: Yes, I think it was probably headed for the school, but he diverted it, so they didn't hit the school. Yeah.
CO: And so this story, how is it that you never heard that, do you think?
AU: I don't know, frankly. I would have thought that my mother or members of that family, the Coventry family, would have come up with that. I just didn't know about the school bit of the story.
CO: Now there's to be a memorial to your father.
AU: Yes, on the 25th of September.
CO: And tell us why... what they want to memorialize?
AU: Well, they are going to put up a memorial to the fact... and I will read you because the man who is organizing his name is Stephen Smith. And I'll read you his email. And he says, as well as being the chairman of Quedgeley parish council. I chair a charitable group called Help If We Can. And we raise money for good causes. Help If We Can and another group known as Quedgeley Community Trust have sponsored the Pilot Memorial Day to recognize the extraordinary flying skills and bravery of your father.
CO: How did you react when you got that email?
AU: Well, the first thing I was astonished.
CO: But now there's stories coming out about your father, about Lieutenant Robert Coventry, and that what he was able to do. People who say they never would have been born or that their mothers would have been killed if he hadn't done what he did that day. What are you hearing in the way of people who believe your father allowed them to live?
AU: I think it's a wonderful honour, and I only wish my mother was still alive to be able to know about it.
CO: Do you think that all those young people, those people who grew up who were at that school, whose lives were saved, do you think they all knew about your father and you didn't?
AU: Probably not. But of course, it was wartime. And I mean, planes were crashing all over that area. I mean, there were more airfields round about that area and planes crashing. And, yeah. [slight chuckle] I'm fairly low-key about it, having lived through all of this, so.
CO: Yeah, it was a scary time for those children. But they... they tell stories now about hearing the crash and running out and seeing... and seeing that... that plane on fire.
AU: That's right. And I think they... they had... the lady that originally in Quedgeley, her father who was at the school; he was 12, I believe. He used to tell his daughter about it. And she was the one that I think sort of initially started this because she lives in Quedgeley.
CO: There's another woman who describes that her... that her own mother was a six-year-old student at the school at that time.
AU: At the school, that's right.
CO: And she wrote, If the plane had hit the school that day, Mum would have died and I never would have been born.
AU: Yes. No, I know. Amazing!
CO: It is. It is. How does it feel, though, after all these years to learn about what your father did that day?
AU: Well, I mean, I knew the vague way that he died. This is really I guess you could describe it as heartwarming. And as, again, I would repeat, I'm so sorry that maybe this didn't happen before. Well, I'm certainly sorry it didn't happen before so that when my mother was alive and that she could have, you know, being part and parcel of this because she never really much talked about, you know, my father's death. We just got on with life.
CO: What do you know what kind of a memorial? What are they going to put up?
AU: Well, they are going to have a service, short service, at the site of the crash. Then they are going to have a parade down, I believe, to the church or the town hall. And then and dedications and put up a memorial. And then there's going to be a reception afterwards.
CO: Will you be able to attend?
AU: I would like to think so. I mean, but you know what we're dealing with medically at the moment.
CO: [both chuckling] Yes, of course!
AU: I won't… won't give it its name. [ both chuckling] No, I would really like to. And I have friends who are really anxious to accompany me over, yeah! [laughing]
CO: No kidding! Well, Anne, I hope that you get to see this, go attend the service. It sounds so special.
AU: I do too. Yes.
CO: And I thank you for telling us the story.
AU: Well, thank you for calling.
CO: Bye-bye.
AU: Bye-bye.
CH: Anne Underhill's father, Robert Coventry, is being honoured for saving a school full of children in Quedgeley, England during the Second World War. We reached Ms. Underhill in Victoria, BC.
[Music: Classic rock]
Spider Music:
CH: It's time for a talk with your roommate. You need to tell her to stop freaking you out by coming out from behind your toilet. But you also need to apologize for killing so many of her friends. So you sit down at your keyboard, and play this little number to the spider.
[Music: This sounds like the type of music that plays at the begging of "The Twilight Zone" it's an eerie chime]
CH: This is the work of MIT engineering professor and musician Markus Buehler. And it may be the first step toward communicating with spiders. Mr. Buehler studies spiderwebs. And in his recent work - which he presented today at the American Chemical Society's spring meeting - he considered the webs as stringed instruments. Which, in a way, they are: when the web vibrates, it sends a signal to the spider that it's time to eat or mate. Essentially, the professor and his team assigned frequencies to the web threads. Then, they made some modifications so the resulting music would make sense to human ears. Didn't totally work, as you'll hear. They put a beat on this spiderweb song.
[Music: Same song as before, now with a metallic beat]
CO: Maybe it just sounds better if you're high up on a wall... or just high. Anyway, Markus Buehler now intends to try to communicate directly with the spiders by playing certain frequencies, which could be a real breakthrough in our relationships with spiders. So instead of all the tension that's usually between us, we can spend years together in webb-ed bliss.
[Music: Indie pop]
Part 2: Myanmar Doctor, Saudi Tweeter Sentenced
Myanmar Doctor:
Guest: Wah
CH: Since the military seized power in Myanmar, it has killed more than 700 people. And injured thousands more. And thousands more than that have been detained. Since the coup, doctors and nurses have been racing to provide medical care to protesters. But they've been finding themselves in the line of fire. Increasingly, the military is targeting medical workers: they've been injured, detained, tortured, and killed. A doctor in Mandalay tells us he's living in fear. He works for a secret underground medical clinic. And every morning, he checks the military's arrest warrant list to see if he'll be next. We reached him in Mandalay - and he's asked that we use his pseudonym, Wah, because he fears for his safety.
CO: Wah is your name on the military's arrest warrant list today?
WAH: ah, no. I'm quite lucky, no.
CO: Lucky, yeah! Do you know of any of your colleagues? Did you hear of anybody you know who is now on that arrest list?
W: Yesterday, one of my friends is on there, on the warrant list. And the day before yesterday, two or three of my friends on the warrant list.
CO: How distressing is that? When you see your friends, when you see your colleagues, their names appear? What goes through your mind?
W: When I saw the name of my friend on the warrant list, I'm really afraid because they are really in danger. So I just text a message to my friend that they should run and hide in a safe place.
CO: So if you were told your name was on the list, what would you do?
W: I have to hide, run and hide in the safe place. And I think I should not go outside, and I should stay in a safe room for a very, very long time.
CO: Your doctor colleagues who have already been arrested, can you tell us about them? A couple of doctors that you know who have been picked up. What's happened to them?
W: I think that was on the 6th of April? At the time, we are planning to start the early morning medicine. So I think it's around 5:00 a.m. in the morning. And at the time, a military care appear, and they are trying to arrest all the protests. But it's quite lucky that as soon as we saw the car, every student and every doctor ran away. And, unfortunately, two of my colleagues, they have been arrested.
CO: So these paediatricians who have been arrested, you don't know where they are? You haven't heard anything else about them?
W: They've been sent to the military base. And then, in the evening, they send my to colleagues into the jail. My friends are just showing their peaceful protest.
CO: And before all this began, you were working in a government hospital, but you're not there anymore. Where are you actually operating?
W: We ran the charity clinic. But the military don't allow that. And they're trying to capture and arrest all the doctor who is running the charity clinic. You know, we... we... we made a group that we call the Medical Family Mandalay Group, and we started an outside clinic that's like a charity clinic. And we established an operation theatre with the... with the donation from the Mandalay people. And now we are running this kind of clinic, especially for the injuries during the protest crackdown.
CO: Right. So this Medical Family Mandalay, Mandalay, of course, is the city that you're in. And this has going underground. The military doesn't know where you're operating this clinic, is that right?
W: Yeah, they might know what we are doing. But until now, they don't do anything to us because we are just treating the patient. We are not doing unethical things. We're just treating our patients.
CO: We know that hundreds of people have been shot by the military. These protesters, part of the CDM, the Civil Disobedience Movement. Many of them were not even protesting. Children, 43 children have been shot dead by security forces, some as young as six years old. But so you and this underground clinic, you are helping the people who are wounded by security forces, is that right?
W: Yeah. In our clinic from 27th of March to 6th of April, there are more than a hundred injuries in our clinic.
CO: And these are gunshot wounds?
W: Yeah, most of gunshot wound, gunshot injury to the chest, some into the abdomen. A day before yesterday, one of our very young doctors got an injury to the bladder and abdomen. So we did a bladder operation, and then the recession of the abdomen.
CO: And he's a doctor?
W: Yeah, he's a doctor.
CO: Wah, what is it like for you to be seeing your citizens, people, children come to you by the dozens looking for medical assistance because they've been shot by the military?
W: You know, I feel really sorry. And sometimes, I feel really aggressive and angry because of, you know, almost all of the protests, they're just doing the peaceful protest. We have no no weapon. But they... they... they shoot the citizen, including the children. And sometimes, it's very difficult for us to... to take the injury patient because they don't allow to treat patients. I feel really, really sorry for them.
CO: We've heard stories that people have bled to death after being shot. You can't go near them because you'll be shot if you go to try and give them help.
W: Yeah, yeah, the ambulance tried their best to get there. But now, they also shoot the ambulance crew. So there are very, very few ambulances nowadays.
CO: Wah, where do you think this is going at this point? I mean, we had 82 people killed just in one day recently now in Myanmar. And people are still going to the streets for this Civil Disobedience Movement. Where do you think this is headed?
W: They will continue to kill Myanmar citizens because they just want to put the fear into the mindset of Myanmar citizens.
CO: Do you think that it might be time to call off the Civil Disobedience Movement? Do you think that will happen?
W: I think is the biggest weapon for us to... to fight back the military agenda.
CO: I wonder, are you worried that it's only a matter of time before your name will be on that arrest warrant?
W: I'm not sure, because, you know, some of my friends, they didn't do anything. They just did civil disobedience.
CO: But, Wah, we're not... no one is suggesting that you have done anything wrong to be targeted. It's quite clear the only thing you're doing is peaceful protest and helping those who are shot at these protests.
W: Yeah. [awkward chuckle]
CO: Do you have a family?
W: Yes, I have my... my wife and my mum.
CO: Your wife and your mum.
W: My wife is also a doctor. And she's also doing a CDM.
CO: She's taking part in the protests as well?
W: Yeah.
CO: Wah, I hope you stay safe. And it's really important to hear what's going on. I appreciate your courage and your time. And thank you.
W: Thank you very much.
CO: Bye.
W: Bye.
CH: Wah is a doctor in Mandalay, Myanmar. Wah is a pseudonym he chose because he fears for his safety. And you can find more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.
[Music: Jazz]
Beck Taxi No Drive Neighbourhoods
CH: Driving a cab is an unpredictable and sometimes risky job. You never know who you might be picking up. And during the pandemic, that risk is even higher, especially for cab drivers in Toronto right now. As the city struggles to contain a third wave of COVID-19, more and more cabbies are finding themselves shuttling people to and from testing centres, and other high-risk locations. Beck Taxi, one of Toronto's biggest taxi companies, is now considering cutting service in hotspot neighbourhoods. Sal Albanese drives for Beck Taxi. He spoke with the CBC this morning about why he supports that idea.
[sc]
SAL ALBANESE: It's about time because we had no idea back in the day who comes in the car and who is not? And the government didn't care much about us. And it's... it's a good step in the right direction. And it's about time for us to feel protected. And if we'd been vaccinated from day one, it will be much easier for us. At least we can protect our family. But it is scary. They have no idea who comes in the car. No idea.
ISMAILA ALFA: Yeah. And... and you also... I'm just thinking about the risks that drivers can be at. Cab drivers actually take COVID-19 patients to and from hospitals when they're being called by Toronto Public Health and told to isolate. What are you hearing from those colleagues who are doing that?
SA: Yes. Again, it's like some people... sometimes, our dispatcher will talk about a patient has been tested positive, or have some symptoms and are going for testing. Two weeks ago, I picked up a couple from the High Park area going their way downtown. And the man and the lady were a little bit tipsy. And I asked the guy, were you're drinking? He goes, yeah, we had a party of 25 people. I said where? Back of one of the house's back. And I go, really?! How do you make sure you are safe. He goes, t's not your business, you're the driver. It's your job to drive me. When we get to downtown, he beat me. He goes, no tip for you because you talk too much about what I was doing. It's none of your business. And I think you should go back to your country. Just quite sad. I don't give a damn who you are, how old you are. You need to be responsible. If I put the mask on, and I'm doing everything for you, you should care about me. Because if I care about you, you should care about me. You don't have to know me. But I'm providing a service. It's not because you're paying me. I mean, I'm nobody. You have to care. Put the mask on, do your due diligence. Be honest about where have you been and where are you going to go and all the stuff. But if you're going to lie about it, then I'm doing the right thing. It's not going to work. We all have to protect each other. Otherwise, forget it.
[/sc]
CH: Toronto cab driver Sal Albanese speaking with "Metro Morning" host Ismaila Alfa this morning
[Music: Very fast piano]
Saudi Tweeter Sentenced
Guest: Omar Abdulaziz
CH: The Saudi government isn't making nice with Joe Biden. Nor is it making nice with Abdulrahman al-Sadhan. Last week, the aid worker was sentenced to 20 years in prison by a counterterrorism court in the Kingdom -- despite expressions of concern from the White House. The sentence appear to be tied to an anonymous Twitter account that satirized the Saudi regime. Omar Abdulaziz says that account was illegally hacked by Saudi officials. Mr Abdulaziz is a Saudi-born human rights activist. We reached him in Montreal.
CO: Omar, what message does this send send to critics of the Saudi regime?
OMAR ABDULAZIZ: That is a clear and simple message to the whole international community that we don't care. We're going to keep doing what we are doing. And we're not going to stop. And if you believe that we're going to put any pressure on us, that's not going to change this direction.
CO: What's he facing now? What's his life to be?
OA: You might be surprised if he were telling you this is the best part of the story. Because in the last three or four years, Mr. al-Sadhan was in the Saudi prison, and he was away, he couldn't even make a phone call. He couldn't contact his family. He had no lawyer. And he was severely tortured. And trust me, when you compare what happened to him a few days ago to the last three to four years, this is the best part of the story.
CO: How did the Saudi authorities even know that he was the author of those tweets?
OA: I do believe that Saudi Arabia had two spies on Twitter. They worked there. And now they're on the watch list of the FBI. They were spying on so many accounts. I met the FBI almost a year ago here in Montreal with some officers from the RCMP. And they gave me a list, and I saw the account. And so, the spies who worked there for the Saudi government. Simply they had access to the IP address. They had access to his phone so that it just would take a few seconds to recognize the person.
CO: These Saudi nationals who had infiltrated Twitter. The U.S. Department of Justice actually charged three Saudi nationals with illegally accessing information on certain Twitter accounts. So you've seen the lists. And so his name, does that…. do you see other people, or do you know others who have also been arrested for tweeting?
OA: My Twitter account was there, too. And also, I saw like a couple of well-known activists.
CO: Is this at the same time the RCMP has warned you that your life is in danger, that the Saudis are after you?
OA: It's completely another time because the Saudis didn't stop, simply. So in last June or July, I received a phone call from the RCMP, and they warned me again. And it wasn't the first time that they... they... they're warning me, so... so for such a thing. So it wasn't a shock for me. [chuckling] Thank God that I'm here in Canada. The government is not going to send me back to Saudi next day, or I'm going to be kidnapped, or not going to be dismembered, hopefully, in an embassy here in Canada. But that would tell you, would give you a clear message about what the Saudis are still doing.
CO: And when you mentioned you're not going to be dismembered in an embassy, you are referring to your friend Jamal Khashoggi, who is a journalist who was murdered in the embassy in Turkey.
OA: Yes. Yes, I am. I was in touch with Jamal Khashoggi. We... we'd been working together. And by that time, my phone was hacked. So by doing that or by hacking my phone, not only my life was in danger, but also other Canadian citizens, American people, and so many people, you know, that their lives were in danger because of that hacking.
CO: You know, most people use Twitter for fun, for a bit of communication. What does it actually represent for critics of the Saudi regime who are trying to get the message out about the human rights abuses? What does Twitter actually represent for you?
OA: Honestly, it's not only for me. It's... it's the Saudi parliament. We do not have a parliament back there in our country. Here in Canada, we do have one. In the States, they do have the Congress. But in Saudi Arabia, Twitter is our parliament. So every single person wants to be there, wants to be there and wants to be heard. So it's the place where we gather and talk about what's really happening in the country, what's really happening in Saudi Arabia.
CO: But obviously, somebody... people are in prison because of tweets, including Abdulrahman al-Sadhan.
OA: Yes. And, hopefully, that the Saudis do not have spies anymore on Twitter.
CO: You know that Canada has condemned the human rights record of Saudi Arabia. You say you feel safe here, that the police warn you, they're trying to watch out for you. But what else should Canada do about these kinds of things where someone who tweets ends up with a 20 year sentence?
OA: I think the Canadian government should... should send a clear message to the Saudi government about its behaviour, not only back there in Saudi Arabia, but also in Canada. Because we believe that some people might be in danger. Yes, thank god we're still here in Canada. No one is going to be harmed. But a few weeks ago, they had the ability to drag someone to the Saudi embassy in Ottawa, one of our friends. And they put lots of pressure on him. And then he disappears for a few days. Finally, we learned that this person is in Saudi. And he was granted asylum. He was a protected person here in Canada. We don't know what happened to him. He called us. He said that I'm really worried, I'm scared, and please, I want some help. But [deep sigh] it was too late.
CO: Omar, why do you continue? You are a target, you know that your life is in danger, that they want you, they want you to stop tweeting. Why do you continue?
OA: I do believe that my country deserves the best. And I do believe that the people of Saudi Arabia, they want to live a free life. They want to speak freely. They want to have... like, we didn't call for a change of regime. We called for the minimum, just to speak freely. I'm not doing that for myself. I do believe that my country is in danger. The economy is not doing well. People are mad. People are upset. MBS promised them like so many things and nothing happened. And he was promoting himself like the military person, like the one who's going to free the country and blah, blah, blah. But, at the end of the day, he jailed human rights activists. He jailed female activists. He killed a free journalists like Jamal Khashoggi. And now he's jailing my brothers and friends because I'm just tweeting from my Twitter account. So it's not what we deserve. We deserve something better than that.
CO: Omar, take care of yourself. And thank you for speaking with us.
OA: Thank you. Thank you very much.
CH: Omar Abdulaziz is a Saudi human rights activist. We reached him in Montreal.
[Music: Ambient]
Newfoundland Zamboni Guy
CH: In Clarenville, Newfoundland, most people know Kevin Goodyear as "The Zamboni Guy." For over 40 years, Mr. Goodyear has been making ice for the town's recreation department. But this week, he decided to finally turn over his keys, and retire as one of the town's longest-serving employees. On his last day at work, Kevin Goodyear spoke about his long career - and why there's nothing more exciting than watching the local Clarenville Caribous play.
[sc]
KEVIN GOODYEAR: I done my logbook now, 10:00, and I rolled in. This is my last day after 41-point-five years.
GAVIN SIMMS: Yeah.
KG: My first day I was a greenhorn. [laughing] I never had no experience with doing ice or nothing like that. I was just turned 18 when I went to work with the town. I just got to finish school. That was my first job. And I never have been laid off. I never drawed unemployment in my life. I've been working for the town ever since. For 41 and a half years, I made ice for hockey players and figure skaters and broom ball players. And boy, I got a good many memories. [both chuckling] I watched hockey for 41 and once half years. The best game hockey I ever seen played in Clarenville, I think a lot of people agree with me, is back in 2015, Clarenville Caribous versus Bently Generals on Tuesday night. That night, we were sold out we were blocked. And I used say to my co-worker, Paul Avery, that night, I said, we through the night, I said, we'll last through anything.
GS: [chuckling] Yeah.
KG: Oh, the boards rattled that night! Fast hockey, hard-hitting hockey.
GS: Now, Kevin, you know, like hockey is such a huge part of the culture in Clarenville. Like, would you say there's a lot of pressure on you to make sure that ice, you know, was perfect every night?
KG: There was a lot of people, you know, you had to make you had to make good ice because not only hockey, like we had figure skating, and we had curling. It's a hard job to play curling on hockey ice. A hockey player can't tell you if the ice is level or not. But curling, they'll tell you. They'll let you know if the ice is not level, [chuckling] right?
GS: Yeah, no, I've read a few posts there online and there seems to be an immense amount of respect for you and a lot of well wishes and... and reaction to your retirement.
KG: Yes, yeah.
GS: So what do you make of that?
KG: It's hard.
GS: Yeah, I bet. You made a lot of friends over the years.
KG: Oh yeah. You know, and I never get one of them.
GS: Well, Kevin, thanks so much for... for taking the time out of your big day there, and the best of luck with retirement. And I hope they still let you ride that Zamboni from time to time.
KG: [laughing] Yeah. Oh, I'm sure they will.
CH: Zamboni driver Kevin Goodyear speaking with CBC reporter Gavin Simms about his decision to retire. Mr. Goodyear has been making and smoothing ice for Clarenville, Newfoundland's recreation department for over 40 years - making him one of the town's longest-serving employees.
[Music: Indie rock]
Part 3: Iran Nuclear Site, Too Many Beavers
Iran Nuclear Site:
Guest: Eric Brewer
CH: Iran's Foreign Minister is blaming Israel for sabotaging one of its nuclear sites over the weekend. The attack appears to have caused a destructive power shutdown at the Natanz uranium enrichment plant. And it comes just as the Biden Administration prepares to resume talks aimed at restarting the international nuclear agreement with Iran. The Israeli government has denounced those talks. And public radio in the country is citing sources claiming that Israel's intelligence agency was responsible for what happened at Natanz. Eric Brewer is the former Director for Counterproliferation at the United States' National Security Council. We reached him in Washington, DC.
CO: Eric, what have you been able to learn about the damage this attack has actually done to this Iranian nuclear facility in Natanz?
ERIC BREWER: So we're still getting information. But what we know is that the attacks seemed to take out Iran's power source to Natanz. And basically shut down the facility and damaged some of Iran's centrifuges. So there's a big question right now over exactly how long that power is going to remain off? We also don't know how many of Iran's centrifuges were damaged and how extensive that damage is. So this could range from a kind of a temporary setback to a pretty major setback to Iran's nuclear program.
CO: And as you know, Iran is blaming Israel. Is... is that likely?
EB: I think Israel is certainly the most plausible culprit for this attack. You know, there's very few countries in... in the world that have the means and the motivation to carry out something like that. And Israel certainly fits that bill. It obviously has a lot of reason to want to set back Iran's nuclear program. Ranging from the very fact that it doesn't want Iran to make nuclear progress to its interest in not seeing talks that are aimed at revitalizing the Iran nuclear deal from going forward because it's a it's a major critic of that deal. And I think there's also some value for Israel to reminding Iran that it's capable of, you know, reaching out and touching Iran's nuclear program, so to speak, whenever it wants to.
CO: That nuclear deal, that agreement that you just mentioned, which is no longer functioning, limited Iran's ability to... to enrich uranium beyond a level that would allow it to be used as fuel. And what is actually happening, what we understand is happening at Natanz now, that would make it a target for... for the Israelis or whomever.
EB: So, since the Trump administration withdrew from the nuclear deal in 2018, Iran has expanded its nuclear program. They've added centrifuges. They've installed more advanced centrifuges that can… it enriches nuclear material at a more efficient and faster rate. And they've enriched material to higher levels. They've also increased the stockpile of material that they have on hand. Obviously, all of this matters not only because it's a violation of the JCPOA, but because these moves can bring Iran closer to a nuclear weapon and shorten what... what the Iran community kind of calls Iran's nuclear breakout time, which is the amount of time Iran needs to... to build a bomb.
CO: And how close is Iran to being able to build a bomb, or was it, before this attack on Natanz?
EB: We don't know for sure. Estimates range that Iran might need anywhere from, you know, about three to six months or so to... to produce enough material for a nuclear weapon. And I should emphasise, what we're talking about here is just the production of the material. Iran would then have to take that and sort of manufacture it and weaponized into a bomb. But that's quite a bit shorter than the timeline under the JCPOA, which was about a year. So that timeline has come down quite a bit under... under... since the Trump administration withdrew. And of course, that's the focus of the efforts in Vienna that took place last week and that are going to resume again this week to try and see if Iran and the United States can agree on a path forward to that deal.
CO: And that deal, the agreement was cancelled by President Trump. And now President Biden is trying to perhaps get it resumed. And so why would Israel not want that to happen?
EB: So Israel's sense is that the JCPOA doesn't put enough constraints on Iran's nuclear program, that the deal doesn't tackle Iran's other activities that are objectionable to the United States and Israel and a lot of other countries in the West. And so certainly a core group of Israeli politicians and sort of national security elites view the deal as... as not doing enough. Of course, there are those within the United States that have that same concern. But the position of the Obama administration who went into the agreement, and I think the Biden administration is that trying to focus on all of those things in one fell swoop is impossible. And so the Biden administration's approach has been to try and just first return to the nuclear deal and then turn to these other issues to try and build on the deal. So there's these two contrasting approaches. I personally think that the Biden administration approach stands a better chance of success because Iran, quite frankly, is unlikely, very unlikely to agree to discuss all those other issues in one set of negotiations. And it's... and it's rejected that upfront.
CO: So if the Israelis did this, and it seems likely, did they do it to sabotage the nuclear facility or to sabotage the talks?
EB: I think it's a bit of both. Because Israel knows, and I would agree with this calculation, that that's going to make it a lot harder for Iran to be flexible at the negotiating table, right? Iran's not going to come in, having just suffered that attack and be more likely to compromise. And... and from what we've seen, Iran's Foreign Minister Zarif has already tweeted out today reiterating and sort of doubling and tripling down on Iran's core negotiating positions that insist that the U.S. remove all sanctions before Iran begins rolling back its nuclear program. And that's really a key sticking point.
CO: So what will you be looking for, watching for in these coming days and weeks?
EB: So I think the big thing that I'm watching for is when all the parties gather in Vienna later this week to have the second round of talks about getting back into the JCPOA. When they all met last week, you know, there was some good, constructive progress, but they were kind of, you know, at loggerheads over a lot of Iran's core demands. And so they all broke and went away to their respective capitals. And so I'm looking to see when they all get back, is, are Iran's red lines really red lines or are they more pink lines? And, of course, that is made a lot harder by the sabotage attacks that just occurred. So I'm not keeping my fingers crossed for a whole lot. But, you know, at a minimum, it would be great to at least keep the parties together, keep the meeting, and if nothing else, have some agreement to meet again in the future.
CO: All right. We'll be watching. I appreciate speaking with you today, Eric. Thank you.
EB: Thank you.
CH: Eric Brewer is a former Director for Counterproliferation at the United States' National Security Council. He's in Washington, DC.
[Music: Industrial]
FOA: Poland LGBT-Free Zone
CH: It turns out that declaring your town an "LGBT-free zone" is bad for business. And that's a lesson the town of Krasnik, Poland is learning the hard way. In 2019, dozens of towns across rural Poland voted to declare themselves free of something they called "L.G.B.T ideology." And even though it was largely symbolic and legally pointless, it caused a lot of damage to LBGTQ people - and it turns out, to the town of Krasnik. Now, their mayor is trying to reverse course. In an interview with the New York Times, the mayor said the town has lost international funding since declaring itself "LGBT free." Last February, we spoke with a Polish activist who was trying to draw attention to the potential damage. He did it by taking pictures of gay, lesbian, and trans people in front of a "LGBT-free zone" sign. Here is that interview with Bartosz Staszewski, from our archives.
[sc]
BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Last year, it was quite tough year for LGBT persons. There was like a big campaign against us made by the Law and Justice government. They used us as a public enemy number one for the parliament elections. So they show us to people as an enemy. One of those types of propaganda was to introduce a declaration against LGBT ideology. So my signs were simply the answer to those declarations.
HM: What do these motions mean? I mean, what did they specifically say?
BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: It's mostly symbolic act. So they write that they will be against sexual education based on World Health Organization standards. Or they will not allow some political correctness officers to be in the schools. They will defend the tradition of Christianity in this county, province, or city that is introducing this all. So it's quite symbolical one, but it's obviously for those people who live in those counties or province, a sign that the politicians will not represent their problems in the city council, that they will not treat them as equal to other members of this community. That they are a threat to this community.
HM: How many of these local governments are passing these motions?
BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Right now, it's a near 90 town city province.
HM: Ninety.
BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: Yes, exactly.
HM: So when you speak of these communities and even at the national level, governments saying that they reject LGBT ideology, that they are sending this symbolic message. What effect is that having across the country?
BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: I think it's mostly frozing effect.
HM: Freezing?
BARTOSZ STASZEWSKI: You can say the freezing effect. Yes. I mean that the people who are living in these communities -- like the teachers, they don't know how those acts working. They just know that the local city council made such a thing. They don't know how this new law is working. And we just explained them that it's not a law. It's more about the symbolical declaration of homophobia in Poland. Not that they need to be scared about this, but people are scared.
[/sc]
CH: That was Bartosz Staszewski speaking with "As It Happens" guest host Helen Mann in February of 2020.
[Music: Hip-hop]
Boy in the South Saskatchewan
CH: The South Saskatchewan River is extremely cold, and its current is strong. Which is why it was nearly disastrous when an eight-year-old boy in Saskatoon slipped and fell into the river on Saturday, while playing with his cousin. Fortunately, Brad and Ashley Pilon were out running along the River. Paramedics say that if they hadn't acted as quickly as they did, the situation could have quickly turned deadly.Here are Brad and Ashley Pilon speaking to CBC Saskatchewan this morning, starting with Brad.
[sc]
BRAD PILON: I heard some screams for help, and I had turned around. And I saw one boy on the shore. He was running the opposite way that I was going. He was looking for help. And I looked in the water, and that's when I saw the other boy screaming for help as well. So... so I started making my way down the riverbank. I was trying to motivate him to kick his legs and make big arm circles towards me. And he said he couldn't swim. Now, thinking back on it, I don't know if that meant literally he doesn't know how to swim or he was probably just exhausted. So as soon as he said that, I was in the water. And my wife and our friend started making their way back, and we got them out of the water and put some dry clothes on him. And, yeah, my wife looked at me and said, are you doing OK? And I said, yeah, I'm fine. And our hotel was right around the corner, so we kept running to stay warm and... and hit a hot shower. [chuckle]
ASHLEY PILON: Still kind of speechless, to be honest. I think it really hit a little bit closer to home finding out that the little guy was eight years old, and we have a daughter that's eight. So I think that's kind of the… the big eye-opener. And just seeing how quick it can take a turn. And just the importance of water safety and just the river and how dangerous it can be. You know, we've watched the video probably 100 times. And I just still it's... it's still amazing to see just how he sprang into action. And he was just, you know, so quick, and you do what you got to do when you see somebody struggling like that, whether it's a child or an adult, it's just your natural instinct. And I'm just still at a loss for words of how proud I am of him.
[/sc]
CH: Ashley Pilon, and before her, her husband Brad, speaking to Leisha Grebinski, host of "Saskatoon Morning".
[Music: Ambient]
Too Many Beavers:
Guest: John McCart
CH: Farmers in one Quebec town are facing off against a horde of saboteurs who've flooded 35 square kilometres of the municipality of Grenville-sur-la-Rouge. And they cannot be reasoned with... because they're beavers. The flooding caused by the booming local beaver population has washed out roads and crops. And the animals themselves are not just worthless as neighbours - they're also worthless due to the decline of the fur industry. Which means local farmers are on their own. John McCart grows soy and corn in the area, where his family has farmed for generations. We reached him in Grenville-sur-la-Rouge, Quebec.
CO: John, what would happen to your farmland if you just let these beavers do their own thing?
JOHN MCCART: It would go back to the way it was before my ancestors cleared the land over 100 years ago.
CO: What would that look like?
JM: It would turn everything back into a swamp. I've seen it myself firsthand just a few years ago in another part of my property where I wasn't actively controlling the beavers. And, you know, within a few years, I'd lost a few acres of farmland because, you know, the water chooses new path when it's restricted by beaver dams. Without those beaver dams being controlled, there'd be more erosion, and it wouldn't take long at all.
CO: So your land is former wetlands, then?
JM: Well, I don't know. I wasn't here 100 years ago. [CO chuckles] But they must have seen a reason why the soil was there was good enough to... to... to cultivate. But, you know, I've got swamps on two different sides of me, so I wouldn't take long for it to revert back to wetlands.
CO: So you're growing, what, mostly soy and corn, right?
JM: That's right, yes.
CO: What effect then is all this the beaver activity having on those crops? What are they... what's it doing to your crops?
JM: When they build a dam, such as they did last year, I had four beaver dams on my property that I removed before the harvest. But I had to make sure that the land wasn't flooded when the time came to do the harvest, which is impossible to do because machines don't operate in the mud very well. And I was lucky enough when I was monitoring them that the level was just below floods. So I didn't have to do any intervention, such as driving through my crops to get to the beaver dams to manage a problem.
CO: And I understand they also used some of your crops to build their dams with it?
JM: [chuckling] It's amazing because I would have a small trail that goes along the water course. And I also have bear problems, and I could see the damage done by the bears. And then I'm looking at the trails for the beaver, like, you know, they're cutting down stalks of corn to drag in and help make the dam. And it's like, you know, they're not give me a break at all!
CO: This is... we also... mayor... the mayor of your…. of your town, Tom Arnold, says that the roads get washed out as well. Is that right?
JM: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Beaver dams don't last forever. You know, they're made with mud and sticks, and that stuff will decompose over time. And I go back 28 years ago when I was a lot younger, and a major dam broke upstream of our place, and it washed out the road, two or three bridges, took out chunks of the field. And it was after a weather event of four inches of rain in the afternoon, and the old dam couldn't hold it. So rushing water has tremendous, tremendous force.
CO: So Mayor Arnold is saying that you have maybe 200 dams of that nature, 800 beavers operating in your municipality. Is that what you're hearing?
JM:Oh, I believe it. I believe, yeah. Any place where there's water running in creeks, there will be beavers. It's the way nature works that way.
CO: What are you allowed to do to control them?
JM: As farmers, we're allowed to shoot them during the season. I know ideally you would want to have trappers come in and trap them during the trapping season when their pelts would be worth something. But in our area, during the wintertime, most farmers don't really concern themselves with beaver dams because everything is frozen. It's during our growing season where they can do a lot of damage. And they can build dams in two or three days. And all of a sudden, you know, you have a flood. And all my neighbours that live along this water course and at the foot of the mountains here, they all experience beaver dams at one point during our growing season.
CO: There was a time when people did trap the beavers and kept them under control. They don't do that anymore?
JM: Well, the pelts aren't worth anything anymore. There just aren't as many trappers anymore because, you know, they're usually older trappers that have been doing it for the last 30, 40 years. And that's part of their... their way of life. But it's just not interesting to do it for nothing anymore. And to trap off-season could cost, I don't know, between 100 and 150 dollars a beaver.
CO: Mayor Arnold is saying that he thinks that the beavers have to be, quote, eradicated. Not just controlled, but they have to get rid of them.
JM: [chuckling] You can't stop water flowing. As long as there's trees and water, you will have beavers. You might correct the problem for a year or two. But they move around. And eradication is like, how far do you go? It's everywhere.
CO: Beavers rule, you know? [laughing] if they want to do it, they don't stop.
JM: [both laughing] You know, the country is built on the... on the beaver trade a hundreds years ago. And eradication? Nah, it's going to be hard. Help for controlling them. I think if there was programs that offered incentives for people to get back into trapping, it would certainly help. But the Ministry of the Environment and the Ministry of Wildlife, they have to become involved.
CO: What does it cost you? Can you put a dollar figure on what your losses are because of the beaver damage?
JM: I would say, like last year, probably four or five thousand dollars between time spent monitoring the dams, the direct crop losses of them taking the corn and taking it into the river and then the removal of dams afterwards. But it varies from year to year.
CO: But there's really not much we can do, right?
JM: We can maintain what we have. I know it's natural for them to be with water and trees and stuff, but it's also our way of life to produce food and to use the land.
CO: All right, John, we'll leave you to it. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.
JM: It's my pleasure. Have a good day.
CO: You, too. Bye-bye.
CH: John McCarthy is a farmer in Grenville-sur-la-Rouge, Quebec, which is about halfway between Ottawa and Montreal.
[Music: Banjo]
Indigenous Bible
CH: When it comes to symbols of Indigenous history, a Bible is a complicated one. But as Kyle Mason points out, it's a complicated history. Mr. Mason's family is descended from Chief Peguis, who converted to Christianity in 1838 - not long after signing a treaty with Lord Selkirk and helping to save the Selkirk settlers from starvation. Now, a Bible that once belonged to the Chief - and was passed down through the generations - is among the artifacts on display at the Manitoba Museum's new Prairie Gallery. And Kyle Mason says its inclusion is an important reminder of the whole community's history.
[sc]
KYLE MASON: To me, it is a number of different things. One that reminds me, and I think, you know, the Peguis community of our long connection to the Christian faith and the... how do we put it? The complicatedness of those two things into mixing. Because obviously, you know, with residential schools and other different things, colonisation, the history between Indigenous peoples and Christianity has been very tragic for... for much of it. But that being said, you know, Chief Peguis converting to Christianity. Christianity has been a part of the Paguis community ever since then. And actually, a number of my ancestors, after they stopped being chiefs, actually became ministers.
MARCY MARKUSA: You talked about the complex relationship between First Nations people and Christianity. How does displaying the Bible speak to that for you?
KM: Well, I hope it generates conversations amongst people who are…. who are looking at it. Because like my father was a residential school survivor. My mother was a day school survivor. So the... the tragicness, the evil of... of Canadian history and colonisation in my family is very real and very present in my family. But it's something it's... it's fact. It's something that…. and there are large numbers of Indigenous peoples who still identify with that faith. And, you know, and there's a good number of people that understand or have a view that there's a difference between, say, the teachings of the faith and the institutions behind all these atrocities and evil acts.
MM: You yourself also have been a minister in your life, is that right?
KM: Yeah, I spent a good number of years being a licenced minister within…. within a Christian fellowship. I no longer am. You know, the teachings of Jesus and of that faith still play a very important and central role in my life. But that's not a term that I would use the identify myself anymore.
[/sc]
CH: Kyle Mason is a descendent of Chief Peguis. and keeper of his Bible, which is now on display at the Manitoba Museum's new Prairie Gallery in Winnipeg. He spoke with the CBC's Marcy Markusa.
[Music: Instrumental]
Gorilla Chest Drumming
CH: Nothing beats a new discovery, especially one about the most majestic beats around. Behold - or behear - the iconic chest-beating display of the silverback gorilla.
[a loud thumping, a cry and a lot of birds chirping]
CH: Well, it… it looks a lot more intimidating than it sounds. When a six-foot-tall, 350-pound silverback beats his chest, the sound carries across long distances. The goal is to entice females from other family groups, while simultaneously intimidating males. A kind of targeted gorilla marketing, if you will…. you will. But until now, the finer points of that communication were not well-understood. So researchers studied wild mountain gorillas in Rwanda. They recorded the chest beats and the chest beater's body size. Which, according to one research assistant, was challenging - because not only did they need to be in the right place at the right time to get the sound recordings, they also had to stay clear of the intimidating apes. The researchers discovered that the bigger the body, the lower the frequencies emitted by the beats. So if you heard this lithe juvenile:
[a much more shallow thump]
CH: Maybe you'd decide it's worth the risk of challenging him to a fight, or forgo rushing to mate with him. But if you heard this guy…
[a cry and a much deeper thumping]
CH: Whole other story. And before you judge the gorillas for their over-emphasis on matters of size, try to remember this: they can't talk to each other, so they've got a lot to get off their chests.