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The AIH Transcript for January 18, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Soldiering on. A member of the National Guard who is called up to defend the U.S. Capitol is still doing his day job, which means he's teaching music to his students from inside a Humvee.

CH: A calamity. Scottish seafood producers say Brexit border chaos, means fishermen can't get their catch to Europe. And that could spell the collapse of an entire industry.

CO: Pre-gifted, as by default organ donations come into effect in Nova Scotia. A politician who championed the policy change, shares the very personal reason why.

CH: You ought to flow. The mayor of an Alberta town that's been booming thanks to the construction of Keystone XL says he hopes Joe Biden rethinks plans to nix the pipeline on his first day in office.

CO: First, the fruit bore it and now it will bear fruit. A rare American twenty dollar bill with a banana sticker on it may fetch tens of thousands of dollars at auction this month because it went from appeal to appealing.

CH: And holes lot of love. Thanks to the pandemic a fashion no, no, has become a fashion yes, please. And the explosive success of Crocs proves that when it comes to style versus substance, people are voting with their feet.

CH: As It Happens, the Monday edition, radio that figures the world has turned in a crockwise direction.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Why this $20 US bill with a Del Monte banana sticker is worth $57K or more

D.C. tension

Guest: Jacob Kohut

CH: Tensions are high in the U.S. capital, about 25000 National Guard members have been called to Washington, D.C., in the lead up to Joe Biden's inauguration. There are fears that Wednesday could be a repeat of January 6th when violent Donald Trump supporters stormed the Capitol. Sergeant Jacob Kohut is one of those National Guard members at the Capitol. He was called up last week after the riots, but Sgt. Kohut decided that even though he has donned his fatigues, he won't be giving up his day job as a music teacher. We reached Sgt. Jacob Kohut in Washington, D.C.

CO: Sergeant Kohut, can you just describe what it's like to be there in the U.S. capital just ahead of the inauguration with so many guardsmen?

JACOB KOHUT: It is like a small city and we operate much in the way that an army would in a small city.

CO: But you are in your capital and you are there to protect that place from other Americans, the possibility of a domestic threat. So what does that mean for you, given what's happened in these past weeks?

JK: Well, we are guardians of the capital and we've got [inaudible]. I'm part of the D.C. guard. It's an honour to guard that Capitol and to be near such a historic thing that's stood for a couple hundred years we want to stand for much longer.

CO: Can you describe a bit of what your job is there?

JK: Right now? We're doing the security detail and helping out with some logistics, although since I've arrived, my job has changed several times as more relief has come from other soldiers.

CO: And you, as people in Canada may not know, the people in the National Guard, keep your, you have jobs, you have lives. This is something you do when you're called up to do it. And you are a music teacher, is that right?

JK: I'm a music teacher. I'm a band teacher, and I'm also a bandsman in the D.C. National Guard. My primary job in the National Guard is in a musical capacity. However, in these times it's an all hands on deck situation. So, you know, a military musician, is a soldier first.

CO: But you have, you've, you're trying to keep up with your teaching and your band leading with your students, right?

JK: Yes, ma'am. Yes, that is true.

CO: And how are you managing to do that?

JK: Well, to be honest, I do have some help from other teachers who are coordinating things. But if any teacher out there is listening knows that routine is key for success in any child. And so what we need to do is make sure that they can be as stable as possible. And so if that means that I can possibly teach, since we're already virtual, then I would love to do that. And I've coordinated with my leadership on both ends of my civilian job, and military job, and they were OK with it. So, you know that that's what I did. And I had no idea it would create a hype that it has. [small laugh].

CO: Well, that's why you caught our attention because of that photo of you in a Humvee with a flute in your hand teaching a class. So, what do your students make of that?

JK: Oh, I think some of them think it's cool. The one that was in the Humvee, I was actually teaching the middle school kids, particularly eighth graders. So I think they thought it was very cool. The ones that are in the morning for my shift are in the armoury drill floor. So I wasn't in such a tactical vehicle or anything like that. I think they just think it's cool that I'm in the uniform.

CO: [chuckle] And do they know what you're doing?

JK: I tell them at the beginning of the year what, what my role is, the oath that I took, you know, ten plus years ago and what that might entail and what things will look like, if ever. And, you know, here we are.

CO: And do they, are they aware? I mean, I'm sure they're aware of what happened on January 6th. Do they, do you talk to him about that? Do they have feelings about that?

JK: Yeah, I opened it up to conversation. This year has been a huge focus on social and emotional learning in all classrooms, especially any kind of an arts classroom. So I've tried to open up discussion about that not only now, but in other times about topics relating to civics and those sorts of things. And, you know, there's a huge spectrum that you'd imagine about the level of interest amongst young teenagers. But I think it's important that they engage at whatever level that they can. To understand those things, because they're going to be taking over in participating in those soon.

CO: Are they, do they fear for you or are they worried about you?

JK: I Think initially there's a stereotype of the element of danger in the job that we do, but you know, statistically, it's a pretty safe job.

CO: It's hard for kids to understand statistically when they, when they care about somebody. How many hours are you now putting in since you're not most people, most guardsmen leave the job behind. You're going to try to do it. Plus you're doing your guard work. So how many hours are you now functioning?

JK: Are you talking about sleep or how much? [Laughter]

CO: How much, how much downtime do you get?

JK: There's no time, no downtime. You know, we, we sleep and that's about it. You know, after I'm off, I'm planning materials to teach the next day and get up and teach when I can and then go work to duty.

CO: But whether it's pictures earlier in the week, of as the, as the thousands, there may be as many as 25000 at full capacity of the National Guardsmen arriving, trying to catch 40 winks lying on the floor in big areas. And of course, people begin to wonder if you didn't have any place to sleep or stay. So is everyone accommodated, everyone got a bunk?

JK: I think, I don't know the official word that's been put out about that. But to my knowledge, everybody's been taken care of in terms of accommodation, quite nice accommodations in my opinion.

CO: And so when will you be headed home?

JK: Since I am local, I have been able to go home a few times and unfortunately just to sleep. I am relatively close, but not close enough to come home to my family much, but so I have enjoyed my bed a couple of times.

CO: Well Sergeant Kohut, I hope for a very peaceful week for you and the others and that there's nothing to report and that you head home safely. Thank you.

JK: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

JK: Bye.

CH: Sergeant Jacob Kohat is a member of the U.S. National Guard and a music teacher. He was in Washington, D.C.

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Nova Scotia organ donation

Guest: Margaret Miller

CH: According to the Nova Scotia government, at any given time, there are more than 100 residents waiting for an organ transplant, but that number could start going down soon. The province's new organ donation law comes into effect today. It's a presumed consent law, meaning Nova Scotians, who don't opt out of donating their organs and tissue will automatically be considered as donors after death. Margaret Miller is a liberal MLA who helped make the law a reality. And for Mrs. Miller, the issue is personal as well as political. We reached Margaret Miller, in Enfield Nova Scotia.

CO: Mrs. Miller, how does it feel to know that this organ donation law goes into effect today?

Margaret Miller: Oh, it's an amazing feeling. You know, you just know that this is going to be a game changer. For so many of those people that are waiting on the list, waiting for an organ. Now they know that they have a much greater chance of actually living a full life.

CO: But this for you, goes far beyond a political accomplishment, doesn't it? This is very personal for you.

MM: Absolutely. You know, I first became involved with organ donation when our son was killed in 2005. So it's been a few years now. And when he, when he died or when he first came to the hospital with the crash, they told us then that they believe that he was brain dead. And they asked us to think about organ donation. Well, I thought my son was invincible. He was six foot three and 240 pounds. He was an athlete, a police officer. You know, I didn't think anything could hurt him. But obviously, a drunk driver in a car did. And now we were left with the aftermath of having to deal with what's next. So all through that long day of before he was finally declared brain dead, you know, we kept thinking about organ donation and what Bruce would want. And, you know, so these days, I'm very glad to know that we did that. We found out actually from a friend a year later that Bruce believed everything should be donated.

CO: Right. Tissue and organs and everything.

MM: Absolutely. Yes.

CO: But at the time, though, you didn't know that. So how difficult was that decision for you and your husband?

MM: We believed in organ donation, even even though we hadn't signed our own donor cards either. But it just made sense. Bruce was all about second chances and this was a second chance for all those people to live. When they started, you know, they give you a list of what you would donate, when they started going through the organs, yes, that made sense. And when it came to his eyes, we said no because I thought it would have been a form of mutilation. You know, it was like doing the scan or doing bones or whatever. It bothered me that that would happen. And was, what was so ironic is just about the time that the bill went through, my husband had actually receive the gift of a cornea from somebody else. And, you know, I regretted at that time that we hadn't realised that we had known more about organ donation to know that corneal cells are very minimal and minimally invasive procedure. So, you know, I wish we had done more at that time.

CO: Do you have any idea how many people improve their lives or owe their lives to your son?

MM: Actually, we know exactly. Four people were impacted by this, Bruce, his lungs were not donate-able. He had a huge lung capacity and there wasn't a recipient at that time who could accommodate his lung capacity. But his heart went to a 62 year old man. His one kidney went to a 31 year old man who wrote us a letter. And he said he had been on dialysis for five years and he was out painting his deck that weekend. And he wanted us to know that that's a big thing for him. We know that the other kidney went to a lady from New Brunswick and we know that the liver went to a gentleman who lives in Amherst, which is right next to the town where Bruce worked. He had heard via the grapevine that it was a police officer from Springhill. So he knew that it was Bruce. And he reached out to us and we actually did finally meet him.

CO: Your son was a police officer.

MM: He was.

CO: And so what's happening here is that Nova Scotia is saying now that you will presume you are donating your organs unless you say otherwise. It's an opposite option now. And when you think of how difficult it was for you, just what went through your mind? What do you think that relieves people of doing when it comes to making that decision for themselves?

MM: I think that, you know, when families are dealt with the same kind of situation [inaudible] we have, you know, they're going to look at the favourable parts of this by then. You know, people learn a lot more about organ donation and what the possibilities are. Now, the most important thing is that the family always has the right to say no, you know, no matter if somebody has signed a donor card and yet the family doesn't agree, they do have that option of saying no. And that's why the conversations are so important to have with your family, when you signed that card, that's what you want to do. You know, this isn't a way just to create a whole lot more organs and take that control away from people. That's not [inaudible] the Governments trying to do what they're trying to do is give more people a real chance at life. And when the situation is such that you have to make that choice, it makes it a little bit easier knowing that there is presumed consent and that, you know, you would have to deal with it from the opposite way.

CO: There's a Nova Scotia doctor, I'm sure you know, Stephen Beed. We've had him on the show before and he has talked about how lots of people have had really wrong impressions about this law and what it does, and including, I guess, some who believe that the government is somehow going to profit financially from organ donation, which is patently false. Do you think there is, though, more education that needs to be done in Nova Scotia?

MM: Absolutely. I think people are all aware of organ donation, but they don't feel that they're ever going to need it or it's not part of their lives. You know, we didn't think so. I mean, who would have thought that my husband would have required corneas? You know, we know, now he's in kidney failure and actually he's not eligible for a kidney, you know, for a donation of a kidney. But, you know, we didn't know that that would be part of our lives. We didn't know that our son would pass away and we'd have to make that choice. I think it will affect a lot more families than people realise. You know, we know that there are a lot of people out there waiting for organs, you know, and why would you bury hope, you know, if if it's possible to donate? Why would you bury those organs that can still be alive in somebody else?

CO: Do you think that this, because Nova Scotia is the first jurisdiction to do this, do you think that others are going to look at that, the other jurisdictions, other governments?

MM: I certainly hope so. I mean, you know, Nova Scotia, looks at other jurisdictions. And what they're doing for legislation, sometimes we, you know, copy some of their things, you know, that we take action, some of the measures that they've done. So I hope that other provinces look at their, you know, at their donor lists, how many people are waiting for organs. And really look at this as a very positive in their own province.

CO: We'll leave it there. Mrs. Miller, thank you.

MM: You're very welcome. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

MM: Bye.

CH: Margaret Miller is a liberal MLA in Nova Scotia. We reached her in Enfield, which is just north of Halifax.

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Banana sticker auction

Guest: Dustin Johnston

CH: Produce code stickers probably aren't something you get too excited about, they're helpful if you're going through the self checkout at the grocery store, but the two minutes you spend trying to peel one off an apple is something we could all do without. But for those in the world of currency collecting, one produce sticker is highly exciting. It's a Del Monte banana sticker on a U.S. twenty dollar bill. And that misprinted banknote is expected to fetch tens of thousands of dollars at an upcoming auction. Heritage auctions in Texas will be handling the bidding. And Dustin Johnston is the vice president of currency there. We reached him in Dallas.

CO: Dustin, Just how famous is the so-called Del Monte banknote in the world of currency collecting?

DUSTIN JOHNSTON: It's so famous that we just call it the Del Monte note and everybody knows exactly what it is.

CO: What does it look like?

DJ: It's really neat. It's a 20 dollar, 1996 United States Federal Reserve note and it has the big head of Jackson in the middle. And then over to the right is a Del Monte banana sticker, the really beautiful red, yellow and green sticker with number 4011. So we know that it's from a batch of bananas and that sticker's affixed on top of one of the printing layers and then below the layer that includes the Treasury SEAL and the serial numbers. So it's really in a, in an interesting spot and was put on the note at an interesting point in the printing process.

CO: OK, so because we know people, they write things on bank notes, they make statements, sometimes political, they put stamps and stickers on it. So when do you think that, this sticker got applied?

DJ: Yeah, whenever we see something applied to a bank note, it's almost always applied afterwards. Kids put stickers on, on their banknotes. After this happened, people were putting stickers, banana stickers on their banknotes and sending us images. What's unique about it is that we know that it was applied during the printing process. United States banknotes in general are printed in three steps. First, the back is printed and then they print the front and then they print the seal and the and the serial numbers on top of that. So you're looking at three different printing processes. So this one had the back printed, then it had the face printed, which is all the black inks. And then the third printing, the green inks with the Treasury seal and the serial numbers were then applied. The banana sticker ended up being affixed to it after the second printing. So before, after all the blacks had been printed and then before the greens were applied. And that's where we know that it was, that it happened on the printing floor during the printing process.

CO: So what are the theories as to how that happened?

DJ: There's a lot of interesting theories. You know, every once in a while you have an employee who, who just wants to rebelle a little bit and they might put something on there to create something and see if it gets out. There's a theory out there, and I kind of subscribe to it, too, that during this time period, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing was increasing their use of technology to screen notes for errors before they went out. So they were trying to catch all of their misprints first. And in doing so, they had to do a lot of testing. And I think they tested with a lot of different objects, is my guess, to see if they would come through. So whether this is an employee kind of playing a prank or whether it was something to test the systems that they were actively looking to improve, we don't know. Either way the fact that it got out because it's so obvious it passed both, either digital or eyesight inspection is pretty interesting and very, very rare.

CO: When did it come to the attention of those who are interested in these kinds of things? What was the first time it was sold?

DJ: So the first time that it was offered that we can keep track of and this is information that we gleaned from our consigner, is that he had bought it on eBay in 2003. It was a college student who was looking to raise some funds and posted it there. It sold for about 10000 dollars our consigner, held it for a few years and then consigned it to us in 2006. So it's been around. The first note that we've seen in numismatic publications was back in 2003, but it surfaced around that time. The 1996 notes were printed from 1996 into the early 2000s. So the date is aligned with when it was being printed.

CO: So obviously this college kid knew that there is some value to this when he or she picked it up.

DJ: Correct, well the consignor and then in an article in 2003 had mentioned that, that a bank teller had discovered it. I know a lot of my friends when we were in college were bank tellers. We suspect that the college student was actually working as a bank teller. And the story is that he was stalking ATMs to fill them with cash because this sticker stands out visually so easily and then tactile because it's raised compared to the rest of the note, you would notice it either visually or with your fingers. So it's not a surprise that he was able to pick up on it very, very quickly. I think even if he missed it and it was dispersed through an ATM, it probably would have been found very quickly.

CO: OK, what do you think someone's willing to pay for this?

DJ: Bidding right now on our website HA.com Is already at 50, 7500,[small laugh] and including the buyer's premium, which will be added to the buyer's invoice that 69000 dollars. If it brings just one increment more, it'll be a world record price for us for any banknote error.

CO: It does wonder that whoever it is that decided to, slap that sticker on that bill in 1996, if he or she knew where that would go by now?

DJ: Yeah, they probably had no idea. Most of these errors in this class are not worth as much. I mean, but this one, it just captured everybody's fascination. It's just, it's one of those in our industry that everybody knows about, everybody would love to own and made the cover of the the latest book on banknote errors.

CO: [Small laugh] All right. We'll leave it there. Dustin, thanks.

DJ: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

DJ: Bye.

CH: Dustin Johnston is the vice president of currency at Heritage Auctions in Dallas, Texas. That's where we reached him. And if you'd like to see a picture of the Del Monte note, visit our website, CBC.ca/AIH.

[Music: Percussion instrumental]

Chic Crocks

CH: Pants were the first to fall and it was fine, but now we've sunk even lower below the knees to the feet where millions are being attacked by crocs. Not the animal, the equally disturbing, comfortable, hideous, ventilated foam clogs. Now, you shouldn't put lower case C crocs on your feet. And many vocal critics insist you shouldn't put upper case C Crocs on there either, because in the case of the former [pause] teeth and in the case of the latter, ugly, functional but ugly, a whole spectrum of cheerfully ugly. Thing is, as the pants situation proves, we are way past worrying about aesthetics at this point. Crocs stock is soaring. The company is now reporting its highest revenues ever because of the more lax waist down demands of Zoom dressing. Sure, but more shockingly, because they are now chic. Having made the magical leap from ugly, ugly to fashionable ugly carried along by celebrity fans ranging from Justin Bieber to Kate Middleton, expect a Crocs related royal scandal in season six of the Crown, by the way. The company is predicting another huge surge in 2021, and far be it from me to croc block, especially at a time when getting dressed at all is no mean feat. In hard times, maybe our footwear should be soft. And if you're still criticising those weird synthetic clogs, maybe it's time to accept your argument is full of holes.

Part 2: Brexit U.K. Fishery

Brexit U.K. Fishery

Guest: Alastair Hughson

CH: Finally, as he'd promised four months, U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has got Brexit done, but more and more Britons are realising that putting a stop to the free flow of goods has its downsides. Europeans are insisting on customs checks for U.K. goods entering their territories, and that means massive lines of trucks, delays and sometimes spoilt goods. Today, British seafood producers sent their trucks to central London as a message to Downing Street that Brexit is killing their business. Alasdair Hughson is a scallop diver and the chair of the Scottish Creel Fishermen's Federation. We reached him in Dingwall, Scotland.

CO: Alasdair, what message were you trying to deliver to Boris Johnson by sending lorries to his doorstep today?

ALASDAIR HUGHSON: The message we were trying to deliver was that we are becoming angry, extremely frustrated, and in some cases desperate. Some people in the industry well know after, you know, the year that everybody's hard with COVID and to the end of this heaped on top of them, I think desperate would be a good explanation, a good description of where they are.

CO: When you say the industry, this is seafood production. Tell us what the situation is for, for that industry.

AH: At the moment, the industry is pretty much, almost at full stoppage I would say. If I was to guess, I would say it would be somewhere about 60 to 70 percent of fishing vessels around the Scottish coast would be tied up right now. I don't think that would be an exaggeration. Everybody went into this two weeks ago feeling ready for the challenge and feeling that the preparations had been made. But unfortunately, when we tried to start applying what we'd been, been told with, you know, different codes, different paperwork, we had pieces of paper. We had to fill out online systems. We found various obstacles in our path to completing these and being successful in getting trucks out of the yard, basically.

CO: OK, and maybe just describe a bit of that. I know it's, it's complicated [chuckle] and very bureaucratic, but what are your drivers encountering when they attempt to take this, their loads into Europe?

AH: In our case, we haven't even got to that stage yet. They haven't, literally haven't managed to get a truck out of the yard. Tried on several occasions and got slightly further on some occasions and others, mainly its online systems that they're dealing with. And they're finding that they're being rejected for no reason, that they could establish. Certain codes aren't being accepted. They're finding out that they need PIN codes, for example, when they weren't told that they would need PIN codes and haven't been supplied with these codes. When they apply to, to get the codes from government, they're being told they may have to wait 120 days to get these codes. And that's just absolutely soul destroying.

CO: And you, export and others export vast quantities of langoustine, but also scallops, scallops, oysters, lobsters, mussels, crabs, everything. And so [inaudible]

AH: Yes, all sorts of different species.

CO: And they can't sit in a truck for 120 days. So what does this mean for your ability to get this to market?

AH: Well, in the case of live langoustine the next step for them is for them to, to become fresh langoustine. And that's you know, it's a product that's produced by vessels using the trawl method round the coast. They produce fresh langoustine, but that has a relatively short shelf life and needs to travel quite quickly. The next step after that would be to freeze it. And in each step you go through the process, you're losing value all the time. The top value is the, you know, the live still kicking and, you know, live langoustine. That's the, that's, that's our goal anyway. And without the links, direct links and being able to do this relatively quickly, we just cannot supply that product to the market that's screaming out for it in Europe at the moment.

CO: Foreign Secretary for UK Dominic Raab, he said these delays that you're describing are just teething problems. What do you make of that characterisation?

AH: We've been aware that there would be teething problems for, for a long time now, but we didn't expect it to be, to be anything like this, nothing like this at all. It's far worse than any of us could have expected.

CO: Do you think they'll get these teething problems dealt with?

AH: I think they could get the teething problems dealt with. But the length of time it looks like it's going to take to deal with these teething problems is it's unacceptable to the industry. Not because we just feel it's unacceptable. It's financially unacceptable because there will be a lot of businesses that won't be here in another three or four weeks time.

CO: When you talk about these companies, these are small companies, small operations, not a lot of overhead, not a lot of cash in the bank for these kinds of things. So what do you think this is going to mean for those companies and for a Scottish fisherman?

AH: We're already going to see, you know, a major fallout from this situation, if something's not done very quickly it's going to very rapidly become a lot worse for Scotland, for the Scottish fishing. And a lot of these boats are very small, single man boats, and they don't have a lot behind them. Some of them have invested in, you know, a new gear and new technology. Some of them even invested in new vessels in the past couple of years. And, you know, to carry on having to pay mortgages on these vessels, it's not going to be possible for them.

CO: Oh, Brexit was not terribly popular in Scotland to begin with. So how are people regarding it now? And they can see that, that these teething problems are possibly going to be quite colossal.

AH: Well, people saying, I told you so. And, you know, why did you vote for Brexit? And he's asking all these kind of questions. But I think it's, we're getting past the point of speaking about [inaudible]. We need to simply move on and deal with the problems that exist, you know, and deal with us as quickly as possible to get things moving again.

CO: There were some rumours that these lorries were going to dump a fair bit of rotting seafood on the doorstep of Boris Johnson. Is that going to happen?

AH: And I don't think that's going to happen. Certainly not yet anyway. There was certainly that thought it was put out there last week, but I think they were very worried about it this morning because erm the Metropolitan Police were seen checking the box of all the trucks, but as far as I'm aware of, the trucks were completely empty and that was never, never going to be on the cards at all. Everybody was very aware that, you know, we've COVID going on and London's quite a hotspot for that. So everybody was cautioned to stay in their trucks unless you're requested to get out by the police. I don't think dumping fish was, was ever on the cards for this protest.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Alasdair, appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AH: OK, thanks very much.

CH: Alasdair Hughson is a scallop diver and the chair of the Scottish Creel Fishermen's Federation, we reached him in Dingwall, Scotland.

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Carol Shields Prize

Guest: Susan Swan

CH: When they created the Carol Shields prize for fiction writer Susan Swan and editor Janice Zawerbny knew they wanted it to be big and at 150000 dollars Canadian, it was. What they didn't know was whether their prize for women writers would be sustainable. But now, thanks to new backing from billionaire philanthropist Melinda Gates, they can turn the page on some of that uncertainty last week Mrs.Gates pledged 250000 dollars U.S. to the prize, almost 320000 Canadian. Her donation will help ensure it can have the kind of impact Susan Swan told Carol she hoped it would. In an interview last year.

SUSAN SWAN: I think it'll make a big difference. For one thing, it will boost the sales of the books of the women who are nominated or win. And I think it will do a couple of other things as well. I think that it's already, we were developing a huge mentoring aspect to the prize and then it will be in public record forever that these women won those prizes. And it will go a long way to making sure that women's fiction is, you know, recognised because, for instance, I think an author like Carol Shields, who often wrote about domestic settings and relationships, there would be a tendency traditionally to dismiss a woman writer who dealt with those themes as lightweight. Oh, yes, that's very good. But it's not really serious literature. And I think having the historical record of the winners and nominees and the celebrations changes that shift something.

CO: Now, it's interesting you didn't mention that it's going to make some woman, some woman writer pretty well off, 150000 dollar prize. This is going to be more than any other literary prize that we have here. So why so much money?

SS: Well, I thought we needed to go big because first of all, it's not a national prize. It involves two countries. And then secondly, really, if it was a more modest amount, there'd be a tendency for people to think it was a niche prize. Oh, that's just the woman's prize and not pay much attention to it. But this way you can't ignore us. And then we have some ongoing discussions about providing awards to women who are writers and single mothers and women who are writers and refugees. And we're working with a number of organisations to get those in place.

CH: Canadian writer Susan Swan speaking with Carol in a February 2020 interview on As It Happens, last week, Melinda Gates donated 319000 dollars Canadian to the new Carol Shields Prize for Fiction.

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Keystone decision

Guest: Doug Jones

CH: Joe Biden's inauguration is looking less and less like a cause for celebration in Canada's oil patch. CBC News is reporting that the incoming U.S. president plans to cancel the approval of the Keystone XL pipeline on his first day in office. The president elect's supporters say that kerbing the flow from Canada's oil sands would signal the new administration's commitment to addressing global climate change. But that's not what it signals to Jason Kenney. Here's what the Alberta premier said this morning.

JASON KENNEY: This is about more than just Keystone XL. This is about the Canada/U.S. relationship. This is about tens of thousands of jobs here. This is about billions of dollars of revenue for governments to pay for things like health care. This is about from the American side, whether they will have reliable access to energy in a country that is a world leader on the environment. Either the United States, with this administration's commendable concern about the environment, can draw on that resource or for years and decades to come. It will have to depend on the heavy crude from Venezuela and more oil imports from OPEC. So that's the case that we are making. We hope that given the importance of the Canada/U.S. relationship, that the president elect will at least agree, as apparently he did in that initial call with Prime Minister Trudeau, to engage on the issue and not to make a rash decision.

CH: That was Alberta Premier Jason Kenney speaking in Edmonton today. Some of the jobs Premier Kenny was talking about are in Oyen the eastern Alberta town has been enjoying a construction boom thanks to work on the Canadian end of the Keystone pipeline. We reached Mayor Doug Jones in Oyen.

CO: Mayor Jones, were you prepared to get the news that President elect Joe Biden was going to scrap the approval for the Keystone XL pipeline?

DOUG JONES: Well, I wasn't prepared to hear that, didn't even considered by mind that that would be as crucial in any way. It is what it is right now, so I'm hopeful that there will be some talks will go on. And we thought that was, had been covered off with our prime minister and Mr Biden.

CO: But at the same time, Joe Biden has made it very clear to, during the election, he's been saying for a long time that that's what he's going to do. He's going to cancel the Keystone XL. He's been saying that. Why do you think it has come to such a surprise to so many people?

DOUG JONES: Well, of course, we were following it all through the election all time, and there was at one point he was asked a question by a reporter and his reply was, it was. It is. Significantly different now than what it was at the time it was cancelled. OK, and so everybody took that as, OK, we've changed how we're putting the pipe in the ground and all the safety things that we're doing, which they haven't done in the States. [inaudible] I think it was taken as a sign of approval because we do significantly better here in Canada than they do in the States. And I think we carry those and we take those things with us when we go.

CO: But he said very clearly he doesn't. Joe Biden, who said he doesn't like the oil sands, which he calls the tar sands?

DOUG JONES: Well, I know. I don't think he realises all the new technology stuff, that we don't do the old pit mining anymore, we recycle 90 percent of the water that's used.

CO: And so that's the case that you're hoping that the premier and the prime minister make to President elect Joe Biden, is that right?

DOUG JONES: Yes. Oh yeah, I think we thought that was covered off, but maybe it wasn't. And I think maybe they have to make that point or education for the president down there, I guess.

CO: What are people in your town, what are people in Oyen saying about this?

DOUG JONES: Course, they're shocked at that, because they believe that this was going through. I still think the section here will be done. OK, half of that piece is done. The other half would go from Oyen up to Hardisty. And I would think that's going to be finished. You know, it's another 100 miles. So at least that section would be done with reclamation and put back on, which they do next summer cause they don't start work up until late June, early July because of the birds nesting.

CO: So there's work for the time being. But at what point do the jobs stop, what point, if there if it doesn't, if he does go through with this cancellation, at what point are people who are working on the pipeline in the Canadian side out of all the work?

DOUG JONES: The camp would still be here this fall. OK, in Oyen, because if they did not do the second piece going north from Oyen to Hardisty, reclamation would be done by December of this year. Then it could be over or otherwise it would last for another year.

CO: We have a number of, we have a lot of listeners in the United States especially, and with lots of them in the Washington, D.C. area. What would you say to them? I would like to say to the people who are listening, who believe that Mr. Biden is doing this in the interests of fighting against climate change.

DOUG JONES: I think that. Mr. Biden, maybe not as well-informed as I would like to be, because really what's happening is you shutting down probably the cleanest environmental piece of all the oils in the world. We do it better than anybody else [inaudible], does it better than anybody else. We have more stringent protocols we have to follow and I think our safety record is second to none of the people are doing it, and there's more, people will be unemployed in the United States. They have three times as many people working on pipe in the United States portion as we do in Canada. And it'll be a bigger role to their people or their unions down there, as there would be to Oyen and to Alberta. And there's people from other provinces that are working on this pipeline. It's just not Albertans that are on this pipeline here. We have people from Saskatchewan and B.C. that work on this pipeline. And ya know it's going to hurt the economy. I think it's, the biggest hit is going to be the economy for both Alberta and Canada. That's one hundred million dollars of oil. And you take a look at that. If the oil prices go at fifty dollars, 800 million barrels of oil a day without the States. And it's, it's a transition we all recognise with climate change. We all know that 50 years from now we're going to be looking at a different world, how we're going to do things. And even KC has recognised that in 2030, the energy used to pump the oil would not be generated by, by coal fired generators. It'll be clean energy.

CO: All right, Mayor Jones, thanks for speaking with us.

DOUG JONES: Thanks a lot.

CO: You bet. Bye bye.

DOUG JONES: Bye.

CH: Doug Jones is the mayor of Oyen, Alberta. And that's where we reached him, and you can find more on that story on our webpage at CBC.ca/AIH.

Sylvain Sylvain tribute

CH: Coming in first is great, being the first is more complicated, especially if you get the credit for being a pioneer, but not the fame or fortune. That's the story of the New York Dolls. Sylvain Sylvain, who played rhythm guitar for the band, once said it was like a race and we were like horses. The Dolls were the number one horse. We were right there like two seconds away from the finish line. And behind us were the Ramones, Kiss, the Dictators and Blondie, and the list goes on. Then we fell and broke our leg and the next guy won the race. Sylvain Sylvain died last week. He was 69 years old. The Dolls were funny, they were tough. And in the pompous early 70s, they were a breath of filthy New York air. As Mr. Sylvain told Classic Rock magazine, all our songs were three minutes of magic, just as long as they needed to be. But their cross-dressing and intensity freaked out the squares and drugs tore the band apart after two unsuccessful albums which other bands built on or stole from to become icons. Sylvain Sylvain kept going, though, and remained a much loved cult figure, doing the same thing he'd always done playing loud rock and roll. In a tribute, Lenny Kaye, guitarist for the equally legendary Patti Smith Group, said he'd seen Mr. Sylvain play a couple of years ago. Mr. Kaye wrote his corkscrew curls, curls, tireless bounce, exulting in living his dream, asking the crowd to sing along and so we will.

Part 3: Britain vaccine push

Britain vaccine push

Guest: Dr. Simon Opher

CH: When it comes to vaccinating populations against covid-19, Israel's stunning progress has left other countries vying for best of the rest status. And when it comes to the rest, Great Britain has been doing an impressive job. Across the UK, more than four point three million doses of vaccine have now been administered, meaning about six percent of the population has received at least one dose. Canada's rate, meanwhile, hovers around one point five percent. And this week, residents of the UK as young as 70 will start getting their shots, which is welcome news in the face of a pandemic that's given Brits little else to cheer about. Family Doctor Simon Opher set up the vaccination site in Dursley, northeast of Bristol. It was one of the first regions in the country to receive the Pfizer vaccine, and it's where we've reached him today.

CO: Dr. Opher, we're hearing a lot about your success in Britain at getting people vaccinated to what do you owe that?

SIMON OPHER: Well, I think the first thing we were we were quite sort of hot, hot at the start, and we got approval for the vaccine early on. And also actually it's pretty grim here at the moment. It's total lockdown. It's dark, it's winter, it's cold. Nothing to do. And so we all as general practitioners anyway, we all thought we've got to do this and we've got to get going, really. So it was approved on the second or third of December. Within two weeks, we were jabing people in our clinic. So there was very little turn around it. We all sort of work quite hard, I suppose, but we definitely went through it in a big way.

CO: And we're interested here because, I mean, we also have a national health care system. We have many of the same things in place. We would think that we could be doing as well as you. But it seems that you're just getting those jabs into the arm so much more quickly. Do you? I understand you do have quite an army of volunteers? Can you tell us about that?

SO: Yes. So there's a community organisation called GL 11. And we actually there was a chap that comes to Canada quite regularly, Paul Bailey, and obviously you can't go there at the moment for obvious reasons. And so he's been organising our volunteers and basically everyone's really keen to help. And it's actually created a really nice feeling in the area because everyone wants to get rid of this horrible virus and get back to normal life. So, yeah, we've had something like 600 hours of volunteer time. It makes a lie of this sort of selfish society thing that people talk about. Everyone's really trying to help each other. So that's really nice.

CO: Just a few questions about this. You're dealing with this rather tricky Pfizer vaccine that has to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and has to be, get it into your customers pretty quickly. So what are the difficulties with that?

SO: So, yeah, as you say, it has to be stored at something like minus 70, so by the time it gets delivered, we get about three days and 12 hours to sort of get it into people's arms. So to start with, we, we started about four people every five minutes and then we realised we could go a bit faster than that and got up to sort of six or sometimes eight every five minutes. But it's quite a fussy vaccine in that you have to mix it really carefully and you can't drop it. Otherwise you have to discard it. And so it's been quite a training for all of us. But actually, as with all these things, once you've got your head around, it is absolutely fine. And after being quite scared of it initially, we've all got to grips with it now. So it is relatively easy to go quite some place, I think, and really get this into lots of people relatively quickly.

CO: I understand that you decided that you can squeeze six or seven doses out of a vial instead of the five indicated on the label. Is that advisable?

SO: Yeah, well, what first happened is that it sold as a five dose vial, if you like. And then we all noticed that there was at least one more dose in there. So actually, the regulator authorities said we could take the six one. So now essentially, I mean, it's quite an expensive vaccine, the Pfizer. So I always consider it sort of by five and get one free, really.[Laughter] So that's that's been quite positive in that way. So it has you know, it's increased the number of people we can vaccinate, you know, by about, as I say, about 20 percent or so.

CO: I understand you used up your last doses on Saturday. So how frustrating is it to have to hit the brakes now?

SO: No, it's terrible. Really. Yeah, because we're all up and we're all set and we've had a few cohorts that we've been doing. So we, you know, we went first of all for the over eighties because they're the most vulnerable. We've done all those. We've done all our care home residents where it's been sort of really quite rife in the UK anyway. All our housebound and all our all our health care staff as well. And we were down to about the age of 72. So we were, we were just going really well. And now, I mean, I think it's, it's absolutely fair. But the, you know, it's a national health service and there's some areas that haven't done that over eighties at all. So we have to wait and allow them to have the vaccine. So there are, there's not shortages of vaccine, but there's certainly a finite amount.

CO: Now, so you're having to basically wait till other jurisdictions, what the big cities catch up with you. So maybe they need your volunteers?

SO: Well, I think they do. And I do. I also think I'd like to, I mean, I am a general practitioner, but I like to do a bit of a plug for us because we're, we're relatively small and we're really nimble. We can act quickly. We can arrange things quickly. And in the cities, there's you know, they're opening up these mass vaccination sites, which should be able to get lots of people done. And they're obviously taking priority this week. So I'm not bitter, [laughter] but it is frustrating, I must say.

CO: But you're delaying the second hit, I guess, for people in the UK, is that right?

SO: Yes. So we started off in the middle of December telling patients you must have your second one to get properly vaccinated. And then the government sort of changed their minds and realised that it would take such a long time to get to everyone. And I think the government, I think, probably rightly said, look, let's get as many people with a first dose as they can. But it's some to be honest, we're a big, big research project. I think the UK, because there's no real no one's ever really done this because it's a new vaccine. So I think it's probably the right call, but it's caused a lot of difficulties, I must say. So maybe a delay of a couple of months in Canada might, might do you some good, actually. In some ways.

CO: Get the bugs out. But I mean, we need obviously that Paul Bailey, I think we need him back, that super volunteer that you've got I think you should be [inaudible] him.

SO: OK, well, i'll send him back. [overlapping voices] The nicest thing for me as a doctor is the old particularly the old people. They're now very stoical. And they and they're so pleased to get this. I mean, normally in health care, they're quite pleased to see the doctor. But this is you know, some, some of them are actually in tears. I haven't been out since March. And it's absolutely, it's a lovely thing to do. And they just give you a massive thank you and big smile. So as a doctor, it's really, it's a lovely thing to do. It's really, really sort of moving in a lot of ways.

CO: Well, good for you. Doctor Opher and I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SO: That's all right. That's fine. Thank you very much indeed.

CH: Simon Opher is a family doctor who runs a covid-19 vaccination clinic in Dursley, England.

[Music: tecno instrumental]

Indonesia cave painting

Guest: Adam Brumm

CH: A painting of a warty pig may not be what every art enthusiast fancies, but there's little else Adam Brumm would rather look at. The fact that the illustration happens to be 45000 years old, may have helped tip the scales, mind you. It's made from red ochre pigment. And it's one of two ancient paintings discovered in a cave on the Indonesian island of Sulawesi. And thanks to the work of Mr. Brumm and collaborators in Indonesia, it's now been dated back to one of the world's earliest known human settlements. We reached Adam Brumm in Brisbane, Australia.

CO: Adam, what is it like to actually be in that cave and stand in front of these paintings?

ADAM BRUMM: It's amazing, it's to me, it's a very emotional experience, it's this sense of, wow, you know, I'm one of only a handful of people in the last forty five thousand years to have seen this image. And then, you know, it's this sense of wonder and awe and and, you know, looking at something so ancient and also trying to ponder its meaning, trying to decipher the, you know, what the artist was trying to represent by this image. It's to me, it's just it's it's it's a window into the past.

CO: And so and just describe what it is and what strikes you most about these works.

AB: It's essentially a scene, a narrative composition, if you like, depicting the three little pigs, literally the three little pigs. It's quite remarkable. It's a depiction of these three warty pigs, which is a type of pig species, only found out which evolved locally on Sulawesi. And they're engaging in some sort of social interaction. Two of them seem to be confronting each other and then one of them is almost sort of leaping up into the air. And, you know, I think the artist did try to capture something, at least with two of these little pigs, something tried to capture movement in this sort of dynamic, explosive sort of propulsion almost of one of these pigs, in my opinion, anyway. I wouldn't like to overeat the evidence, but still, they managed to capture that sense of movement, in my opinion.

CO: And what would these warty pigs that they represent to these early homosapiens? What role did these pigs play in their lives perhaps?

AB: Well, they were hugely important to them. We've excavated some of the cave sites where these Ice Age artists were living in the same area. And when we dig back through time and we find all of the bones and the teeth from animals that they hunted, they were hunting a lot of these warty pigs. It was their most common, large prey item so that they were very, very important to them economically. And as we, you know, dig all of these sites across that region, we see that this was a long term trend that continued right down into what we call the Neolithic period at the time at which, you know, people started to invent farming. And we also see most of the images, ancient animal images we see in the Ice Age cave art are depictions of this one species that were very close to these pigs.

CO: And how have you determined, how has your team determined that this, because I know this is one of the two paintings you found in this area. How are you able to determine that there at least 45000 years old?

AB: Coral rock art is very difficult to date. These ancient cave images are, anywhere in the world, are difficult to date. But we are very lucky in this situation because it's in a limestone environment, a limestone cave, and in limestone caves, you often have these small calcite deposits that were formed naturally on the cave walls, almost like little miniature stalac... stalactites. And in this case, we had one of these little calcite growths known as a cave popcorn, which developed over the top of the painting and using a method known as uranium series analysis, we can determine when it began to form and in this case it was forty five thousand five hundred years ago. So we know that the painting must be at least that old. It could be much older for all we know. But at this stage, all we have is that minimum age of forty five thousand five hundred years ago for that for the three little pigs.

CO: But aside from the finding that the three little pigs is a much older story than we originally expected,[laughter] but this was it a fairly sophisticated society? What can you tell us? What what this person who made this painting, what kind of life, what kind of society did they have?

AB: That's a bit of a mystery to us, Carol, with, you know, we can tell a fair bit about them from the art that they left behind. But as archaeologists, what we know, a very important part of what we need to know comes from the artefacts that they also left behind and from the food remains and from the way they inhabited the landscape. And that can only come from that sort of evidence, can only come from archaeological excavations of the sites of the places that they lived or visited. And in this case, we've only managed so far. There's only a couple of sites. I've been excavating one limestone cave site, which is one of the rock art sites for several years now. These were people that lived in a probably open rainforest type environment. They also made [pause] decorate their own bodies with various ornaments made from drilling holes in the finger bones of marsupial cuscuses, which are a type of large possum. We know a little bit about who they were, but one thing we don't have are any of their fossils or skeletal remains. So the identity of these people, their biological, ethnic identity and genetic ancestry is a bit of a mystery, and it's certainly one of the you know, one of the things we're really hoping to find as we continue to excavate these sites, some of the skulls and aerials from these Ice Age artists. But look, currently, apart from a few little snippets of information here and there about their technology and their economy. Yeah, there they are an enigma to us.

CO: But it must feel that you're connecting over those tens of thousands of years with another with another human.

AB: Yeah, well, here, when you look at the three Pigs' image, you've got not only this is creation that they've conjured from out of their imagination, this depiction of the natural world in the form of these three little pigs. But then you also have this image itself of these human bodies that were there. You know, I mean, you can see the outline of their hands on the wall. It's yeah. You know, sometimes you just sort of have to almost sit back and think, wow, you know, that that's almost like a shadow of someone there. That's just preserved on the wall, you know, and you can reach out and almost touch them, in a sense. It's that you don't like to think about that too much as a scientist because then you sort of, you know, getting above your pay grade. But it's still pretty amazing.

CO: Adam we'll leave it there, thank you.

AB: No worries, Carol. My pleasure.

CO: Bye.

AB: See ya.

CH: Adam Brumm is a professor of archaeology at Griffith University in Brisbane, Australia. That's where we reached him.

Good samaritan

Guest: Donald Hargray

CH: Over the weekend, Quebec was hit with a massive snowstorm and Donald Hargray was right in the middle of it [pause] on purpose. The 65 year old from Mirabal, Quebec, took it upon himself to scout out the parking lot at Saint-Jerome Hospital in the Laurentians. And when the snow started falling, he got his shovel out to help out health care workers. Donald Hargray spoke with CBC Radio's Quebec AM this morning.

DONALD HARGRAY: So on Saturday morning, since the snowfall just started during the night, it was fairly easy to clear many cars. But after I'd say around two and a half hours, I was completely wet you know, the wet snow and all that. So I needed to come home and change and grab something to eat. Then I should get out. I said with a quantity of snow that's falling right now, I need to go back out there. So I went back out there. But it was a completely different story because when I got there, there were snow so high that many of the vehicles could not open the driver's door. So instead of just using a broom now, I had to shovel them. And that was not part of my plan. But I needed to help these people. So started shovelling and I only did 30 vehicles that afternoon because of the quantity of snow. But the appreciation was 10 times higher because people coming out saw all that snow. And we're discourage and some of the people couldn't even back out of their parking. So I had to shovel them out. And that was a great feeling, also.

JULIA CARON: Why is it important for you to perform acts of kindness like that right now?

DH: Well, you know, honestly, I would have liked it, done it prior to the covid, but I didn't know what to do, how to do it and all that. But with the covid and all the restrictions that we have, I knew that, you know, if I could clear out some cars with the snow, that that would be a great way to help people, especially the health workers. So I was motivated to do it. Saturday night when I got back, I was completely kaput. And I said to my wife, I'm sorry, I can't go back out Sunday morning. But after receiving all the messages on Facebook about the people appreciating what I did. Sunday morning, I got back up and six thirty, I was in that parking lot and came to do the same work. But that time the snow had frozen. So now I had to scrape windows so they can have access to visibility. And also the rooftops needed to be cleared so they don't cause issues with other drivers on the road.

CH: That was Donald Hargrave speaking with Quebec AM host Julia Caron about why he spent the weekend digging out hospital workers cars.

[Music: piano interlude]

Snowmageddon

Guest: Joe White

CH: I'm sure they considered a snowcalypse, but in the midst of the catastrophic storm last year, at this time, the people of Newfoundland and Labrador settled on another name as the snow settled outside [pause] Snowmageddon. The unprecedented 2020 blizzard forced the province to grind to a frozen halt and prompted the capital, St. John's, to declare a state of emergency. As residents dug out and hunkered down. We checked in with veteran St. John's cabbie Joe White last January. He told Carol he was spending time outdoors with, what else, his snow blower. Here's their conversation from our archives.

JOE WHITE: I work seven days a week and I get really put out when I can't get out and go to work. And if I leave that till tomorrow morning, it'll be probably up to my shoulders [laughter] if I had to leave it.

CO: Now, this is an emergency, right? So can you describe for people, what... we've seen the video, we've seen the pictures. It doesn't. I mean, you just can't fathom what's happening right now in your part on the Avalon Peninsula. Just describe what it's like outside your door.

JW: Well, if you stood up, I'd say the winds are somewhere between 50 and 60 kilometres an hour now and the rest are changing around, I believe, to the Northeast and that snow hits our faces like someone has a sandblaster blowing out. You can even look at it. You have to be very careful when you're snowblowing, especially near the street, because even though it's a state of emergency, just some fools out there in pickup trucks trying to see what their trucks can do.

CO: When you get a northeast wind like that, what's it.. That must be just brutal.

JW: Well, you know, and a northeast wind and St. John's will cut you right to the bone. You might get a northeast wind up in Toronto and other places. And I've heard meteorologists say, now it's the same. It's not the same. The meteorologists got to come down here and stand up in it and then they'll understand. This is three times today. I got my snow gear in the dryer again because the humidity that's in this stuff, it just soaks you right to the bone. I mean, you can go up in Toronto and blow snow and stuff and it's cold, but it's not a damp cold. We get a damp cold down here. I mean, wind chill down here of minus 10 is probably you know, I've been I lived in Ontario for a couple of years and the wind chill up there of minus 30 is nothing [pause] but a wind chill down here, minus 20 or 30, I mean, it's not fit.

CO: And it's the intensity of that wind. Right. That's like a northeasterly at that speed is just extraordinary, it would seem.

JW: Right. And according to the news, I mean, these winds are as far as overnight, are supposed to go up to somewhere between 120 and 150 k an hour. We haven't even got the brunt of this yet.

CO: When was the last time you didn't go out in your cab because of the weather?

JW: Never. [Laughter] I've been into the taxi industry since 1979. I've gone through more cars than most people go through shoes and the weather has never, ever prevented me from going to work. But when I got up this morning it just started to snow before I left and I was listening to the news and stuff, my problem is I got to drive 10K to get to St. John's to go to work. And I'm driving through like, you know, fields, open fields, you know, pastureland and stuff like that. And when you get 100k with blowing snow, I mean, visibility, zero. I was concerned about getting home. I wasn't concerned about getting out.

CO: So what makes you so convinced that you're going to get out to work tomorrow?

JW: I'm just persistent. I'm going to work tomorrow morning. [laughter] I don't know what time it's going to be but I'll be out to work tomorrow morning. I can guarantee you.

CO: What we're hearing from the police and the authorities are saying just do not go out there today. But are people doing that anyways? You said that you saw some pickup trucks. People are actually out on the road?

JW: Now, I saw one pickup truck that was earlier, let's say a few hours ago. I haven't seen one since. And normally, normally because I live out in the West End and a lot of people around here have snowmobiles, I haven't even heard one. So I think the teenagers got the message. So stay home. If you don't need to be out, stay home. [laughter] Stay home, make some babies and have to remember what happened. But I'm going to work tomorrow morning. You needn't worry about that. And my customers, they know that I'll be out working tomorrow morning. I told them already I'll be out. [inaudible] going to shovel all night and get a couple of hours sleep. I'll be out tomorrow morning.

CO: Some are saying, though, that those, the fools who have gone out have ended up in the ditch and no one can go, even go and rescue them at this point.

JW: Well, when there's a state of emergency, I mean, they're not going to send... I mean, you know, first responders from 9/11 and, you know, the firefighters and whoever else, they're not going to go out and risk limb for a fool who's out these two wheel drive vehicle and, you know, three foot or ten foot snow drifts they've been told already. Stay off the road. It's a state of emergency. If you don't need to be out. Stay home. Yeah, I mean, it's good advice. Put it this way. If I won't go out in a snowstorm, everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador, you need to stay home!

CO: Well, maybe you should get on the phone or on television and say, one thing you can say is if I'm not going out, you shouldn't go out and then tell them to stay home and make babies. [Both laughing] Maybe that maybe you have to give them a reason to stay. That might do it.

JW: All right, and they can nickname them Snowy.[Laughter] I don't know Carol, this is brutal. I mean it's, a lot of people are staying home, I haven't seen anybody walking on the streets. I haven't seen any snowmobiles. I haven't seen any joyriders. So I guess the bulk of people got the message. They're probably home sitting on their [inaudible] now, you know, doing whatever else Carol.

CO: Oh, yeah. Well, let's just yeah, there's lots to do. Tell them that. Joe, stay, stay warm. I guess. If you've got to go back out there again, stay safe because you can't see anyone coming.

JW: Sorry. No, no. But I mean, I'll go out on the street, but my neighbour, he's he'll be there with me. Make sure every, you know, I have my back to traffic and stuff like that. But we will get it done before the night is out. And then one final [inaudible] in the morning to get out of our driveways because he's got a, he's got a big F 250 something or other. And if I need to get to the store and I can't get out. I can depend on him.

CO: Well, OK. Well, we'll see what happens tomorrow. And I admire your confidence that you're getting out your driveway tomorrow.

JW: All of this, I don't know. Confidence is the right word, Carol.

CO: What's the word you use?

JW: I, I don't know if there's one in the dictionary goes way beyond confidence. I couldn't come up with one, probably begins with an S. I don't know. Yeah. [chuckling]

CO: Joe take care of yourself. OK.

JW: Have a good day Carol.

CO: You too. Bye bye

JW: Bye

CH: From our archives, that was, long time. St. John's cab driver Joe White speaking with Carol in January of 2020. After the storm, they called snowmageddon dumped up to 90 centimetres in some parts of the city.

[Music: Classical]

Sound from Mars

BUGS BUNNY: Hello Earth. Hello what!? If that's the earth where the cotton picking heck am I?

MARVIN THE MARTIAN: You're on Mars. Isn't that lovely?

CH: When Bugs Bunny touched down on the Red Planet, Marvin the Martian was there to greet him. Look, NASA has seen the same tape we have and they know they can't bank on that same warm welcome. But they're confident that if anything greets them when they land on Mars next month, they'll be able to catch it on mic. On February 18th, NASA's new Perseverance rover is scheduled to land on Mars, like the Curiosity rover that was launched in 2012, the Perseverance is equipped with all kinds of gadgets. Unlike the Curiosity, it's also equipped with microphones that will let us listen to Mars for the first time.[pause] Before we all get too excited the thin Martian atmosphere will drastically alter any sounds we capture. So to prepare US Earthlings, NASA released a simulated playlist of Mars-esc Sounds. Each clip starts with a recording made on Earth and then shifts to a simulation of what that same recording would sound like on Mars. For example, here's what a day at the beach might sound like. First on Earth and then on Mars.

[sound clip]

CH: And after a long day at that weird beach, hop on your gravity regulated bike and head on back to your Martien bungalow.

[bicycle sound clip]

CH: You're finally at home, you've slipped into something more comfortable than your Gravitrecks 9000 robot suit, and you flip on the radio to tune into your favourite program.

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden and this is As It Happens.

[sound clip, AIH intro]

CH: Some clips from NASA's Sound of Mars playlist. OK, not not the last one, but you get the idea. Exactly one month from today, NASA's microphone equipped Perseverance Rover is set to land on Mars, which will give us the chance to listen to the Red Planet for the first time.

January 18, 2021 Episode Transcript

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