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The AIH Transcript for October 26, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Party down. After British Columbians gave the NDP a decisive majority in Saturday's election, a former Liberal leadership candidate reflects on her party's historically dismal showing.

CH: Freudian slip-up. Tens of thousands of psychotherapy patients in Finland learned their private health records had been hacked — when the hackers contacted them with an extortion threat.

CO: Broken promises. A ceasefire between Armenia and Azerbaijan is immediately broken. And an aid worker tells us that's bad news for the thousands of children his team is trying to help after they fled the shelling.

CH: Title fight. “How to make Love to a Despot” squares off Against “Lawnmowers: An Illustrated History”. And in this year's annual competition for the oddest book title, there's a dark horse Canadian contender as well.

CO: The grape escape. Thieves made off with a whole bunch of his bunches — and now, a small Quebec winemaker is offering a reward for information about what happened to the fruits of his labours.

CH: And... claws for concern. Just in time for Halloween, a graveyard in Belgium is overrun with creepy, invasive crayfish that can clone themselves — and nothing can be done to scuttle their scuttling.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Monday edition. Radio that shows its true crawlers.

Part one: B.C. election, Nagorno-Karabakh aid, Grape theft

B.C. election

Guest: Diane Watts

CH: On Saturday, voters in British Columbia gave the NDP the majority they'd been craving. Here's what newly re-elected premier, John Horgan, said after this party's decisive victory.

CO: But we know that John Horgan, he was riding an enormous wave of popularity for how he handled the pandemic. He knew what he was doing, right, when he called this election? Now he has a majority. Could any Liberal leader, any leader of the opposition, could you have done any better as Andrew Wilkinson did?

DW: Well, I mean, you know, that's really hard to say. But I would agree with you on that front. Because I mean, when he called the election, correctly so, you know, people need to remember that everybody was satisfied with the way things were being handled on the pandemic front. Because it was a minority government, all three parties were working together to ensure that British Columbians were kept safe. So, you know, he got the credit for that. The Green Party leader had only been in as leader for one week. And Andrew Wilkinson had been the new leader for two-and-a-half years, and not well-known throughout British Columbia. So most definitely, there was a significant advantage for John Horgan in this race.

CO: And what about the candidates for the Liberals? I mean, I’ll just give a quick round-up of some of the problems that people had. There was one candidate, Margaret Kunst, who was known to have voted against a rainbow crosswalk. Another Liberal candidate who advertised in an anti-LGBT magazine. And another, Jane Thornthwaite, who made a sexist remark on a video. I mean, a lot of gaffes, right? So do you think that he was hurt by the candidates he had?

DW: Oh, without a doubt. Without a doubt. You know, when you go into the election and, you know, the governing party has a significant advantage, and then you've got candidates that he has to answer for, most certainly. And, you know, I mean, it depends on how it's dealt with. I mean, if you look at the NDP, I mean, John Horgan had said, you know, I don't see colour. And Nathan Cullen made some, you know, remarks about the Aboriginal candidate that he was running against. So, you know, there were gaffes on both sides. But, you know, John Horgan came out straight away and dealt with it. And with Andrew Wilkinson, you know, he made sure that Laurie Throness was no longer part of the Liberal Party. And, you know, he addressed these other ones. So I think there were a lot of things at play with this.

CO: But you also mentioned that Mr. Wilkinson was perhaps out of touch with a lot of voters or failed to build a larger coalition among voters. And I'm thinking of just again, some gaffes on his part. He remarked back in February 2019 that renting was fun and was part of growing up and a wacky time of life. Another time, he described domestic violence as people in a tough marriage. Do you think that he didn't get it, quite often?

DW: You know, his use of language could definitely have been better. But I know that he comes from humble beginnings. And he was raised by a single mom. So, I mean, he has experienced those things. And so I think just the language that he's using has been inappropriate on those two fronts there. But most certainly, I think there was some policies and platforms that the Liberal Party had that were really good in terms of kick-starting the economy and, you know, on the daycare front, on the health care front. So it's about how do you communicate that. How do you connect with the voters? And how do you deliver that message? And the stars aligned for John Horgan the other night.

CO: Was it really just the stars? Or do you think that Mr. Wilkinson, do you think he ran a good campaign?

DW: Well, looking at the campaign as a whole, I think, like I siad, I mean, the platform was good. The policies that were coming out were good. And so, you know, there was a number of missteps for sure. And, you know, you kind of look back and you can always do better. But what I hope will happen now is that the Liberal Party and the new caucus will really look at how to define themselves, what the Liberal Party stands for, and make sure that it's a reflection of the people of British Columbia and engage more, you know, visible minorities, more women and have a more diverse party. And I think that's where they need to go and really open it up to the young people as well. Because, you know, the younger people are not connecting. And if we look back in 2017, I mean, that election, they lost ten seats. You come to this election, there's another 12 gone. So in the span of three years, that's 22 seats that were lost. So there's some significant work that has to be done, bar none.

CO: OK. You came in a close second to Andrew Wilkinson for the leadership. Obviously, there's a job open right now. Are you considering it?

DW: [chuckling] I'm not thinking about it, no. You know, I went down that road. [laughing] I went down that road already. And, you know, I think that it is time to get some fresh people in there, some new ideas going. And I think it's incumbent upon us that have been in political life a fair amount of time to assist with that.

CO: We'll leave it there, Ms. Watts, thank you.

DW: Great. Thank you very much.

CH: Diane Watts is a former MP, former mayor of Surrey, and former candidate for the BC Liberal leadership. She's in Vancouver.

[Music: Jazz]

Nagorno-Karabakh aid

Guest: Guram Matiashvilli

CH: Well, that didn't last long. Yesterday the Trump Administration announced that it had brokered a ceasefire in the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the disputed territory of Nagorno-Karabakh. The ceasefire was to take effect as of midnight last night. But within minutes of the clock striking twelve, the two sides were trading accusations, as fighting resumed. That's bad news for the children Guram Matiashvilli is trying to help. Mr. Matiashvilli is a Response Team Manager with the aid group Save The Children. He works out of the town of Goris in Southern Armenia, close to where the fighting is taking place. We reached Guram Matiashvilli in Armenia's capital, Yerevan.

CO: Guram, how many children are you and your colleagues trying to help in Goris right now?

GURAM MATIASHVILLI: It is very difficult at this moment to say. I can say approximately, very approximate number, it is about 2,500 to 3,000.

CO: And who have they come with? Are they on their own?

GM: They come actually with mothers, grandmothers, grandfathers, without males, actually. Males stay.

CO: What are the families telling you about why they had to leave?

GM: Yes, the families, while we were interviewing the families, they were talking about the missile attacks, drones, cluster bombs targeting their towns, their villages. And that was the reason that they had to leave their country for Armenia.

CO: And can you give us more details about what kind of stories are the children saying about what they experienced?

GM: We didn't speak directly with the children, but I can say voice of children. The voices are following, like I dreamed that the war will over soon. And I met with my father. Or I’m scarring of loud noises.

CO: Do you have any idea as to what conditions they were living in, how close the fighting and the violence was to where they were?

GM: It was very close to their towns and villages. It was very close. And, you know, I can say that the first thing that we identified during our rapid assessment is that children needs very professional psychosocial support. They are in very distressed condition. And you're asking about condition that they are living in Goris town?

CO: Just anything you can tell us. I mean, it seems that these kids are going through a lot, as are their parents. So anything you can tell us about what they were leaving before they became spontaneous arrivals or refugees. What were they going through?

GM: You know, the story that Azerbaijan begun massive attacks across the entire line of contact between Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh. And the massive missile attacks in the direction of Nagorno-Karabakh resulted in civilian casualties. As a result of continuous heavy shelling on Stepanakert, Stepanakert is the capital of Nagorno-Karabakh, or other towns, civilian infrastructures have been so severely damaged or destroyed. Like at this moment, I can report that for about 18 schools were destroyed. So the rapid escalation of hostilities has led to the southern displacement of the population, with people fleeing with little or no belongings. So that was the situation. Spontaneous arrivals continues. They are arriving to different parts of Armenia. One of this is Goris. What is going on now in Goris? I can tell you about the Goris town. So all these spontaneous arrivals are settled in so-called collective centres, hotels, hostels, kindergartens. And they are currently receiving humanitarian aid from government and international land use.

CO: And what kinds of materials do you have to support them? I mean, do they have food? Do they have blankets?

GM: They have blankets. We are providing with the food. And there is a huge need to have hygiene kits. So where we are providing hygiene kits. There is a huge as already a winter period in Armenia. So nights are colder. So we are providing warm underwear, clothes, this much for now.

CO: Now, what are you anticipating as we move into winter? What are you thinking? Are you expecting more of these people, more Armenians to arrive leaving Nagorno-Karabakh?

GM: Yeah, I think that there will be more. But, you know, at this moment, about ten thousand facilities are destroyed in Nagorno-Karabakh. So even if we imagine that war will over now at this moment. So this people can't return to the homeland.

CO: There's nothing to go back to.

GM: Yeah, yeah. So they can come back only when, first, war will over. And the second, after huge reconstruction.

CO: What does the winter look like for them then?

GM: Oh, winter is here and winter is very heavy in that part of Armenia.

CO: You said the men were left behind. Do you know what's happened to them?

GM: They are in a war. So I can tell you.

CO: They stayed back to fight?

GM: Yes, yes.

CO: And how do the kids feel about not having their fathers with them?

GM: They have very sad eyes. You know, very sad eyes. They always are talking about their fathers, always. They are always keeping talking about fathers. So it's very sad. It's very sad. But we have psychologists in our place. So they are working with children, with their mothers. So we are doing our best to support them in this condition.

CO: All right. Gurum, we will leave it there. I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

GM: Thank you. Thank you very much.

CH: Gurum Matiashvilli is a Response Team Manager for the aid group Save The Children in Southern Armenia. We reached him in Yerevan. You can find more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Vocalization]

Grape theft

Guest: Michel Robert

CH: If police in Rougemont, Quebec don't act fast, the evidence could soon be destroyed. As in: crushed, decanted, swished, and swallowed. Last week, 500 kilograms of prized white-wine grapes were stolen from the Côteau Rougemont winery, East of Montreal. Michel Robert is the owner of the winery. We reached him in Boucherville, Quebec.

CO: Michel, how did you discover this theft?

MICHEL ROBERT: Last Thursday, my workers went into the field. Well, to prepare the field, we were planning to harvest in the afternoon. So so they show up there to remove the nets and suddenly see that half of the row, the nets are already gone.

CO: Wow!

MR: So they walked closer and they realized that all the grapes were gone. So that's how we got the info.

CO: You estimate about 500 kilos of grapes were taken.

MR: Yes, approximately 500 kilos, which is the equivalent of about 300 bottles of wine.

CO: Wow! How did they do it? How did the thieves pull this off?

MR: Well, first of all, it's a parcel that is not closed off from the road. So they knew exactly, you know, what they were doing. We suspect that they came in with an ATV, maybe with a small trailer attached to it. They pulled on the grapes and there they put it into a big black garbage bag, which we found. One was half-filled that they left it there. And there was a lot of empty bags on the ground.

CO: And did they do much damage to your vines?

MR: Yeah, they broke. Instead of normally, we use small scissors to cut the grapes. No, but they just pulled on it, and they broke some branches. And, you know, it's very frustrating, you know? It's the work of six months. You prune the vines in the spring, you spray them, you put a lot of attention to it. And you're ready to pick the fruits and they're gone. So it was a very, very frustrating day.

CO: Whoever then stole your grapes knew the timing of this, right? Maybe knew exactly the time and the place to do it?

MR: They knew exactly the place. They knew exactly. You know, They were prowling, watching it closely, you know? So this was the last parcel. So this is the vidal, this is a white verity. This is the last one. And so they were probably watching it every day, I guess, or something like that.

CO: So how are you feeling about this since you discovered it?

MR: Well, we were, you know, very frustrated, shocked, surprised, you know, name all the adjective that you want. You know, we never thought that somebody would do that. And, well, we don't know. Eventually, maybe next year we'll do something else to protect that parcel, I don't know. But it's very frustrating.

CO: I mean, it's hard to imagine who would do this. Do you have any idea?

MR: No. Well, we think it's another probably winemaker that decides to use our vines to produce his own wine for the season. But it's not another grower or producer. You know, in Quebec, we've got strict policy regarding the purchase of grapes elsewhere. So it's very followed. You know, it's like it in the rest of Canada with the VQAs. It's something similar like this and it's an appellation. So we suspect it's somebody in his basement or in his garage, you know, pressing the grapes and fermenting it.

CO: It's hard to imagine someone having a winemaking hobby that they felt good about that was made from grapes they stole.

MR: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, well, maybe he thought that, you know, we wouldn't notice it or something like that. But it's incredible the sympathy that we've got for the public in general, the media, and social media and all our followers now. I'm sure that the thief cannot talk about it [CO chuckles] in the region at least [chuckling] because everybody will discover who he is, you know? He better drink it, keep it for himself.

CO: And you figure you can make about 350 bottles from this?

MR: Yeah. Yeah, correct. Yes.

CO: But why did the police say?

MR: Well, the police, you know, is making his investigation, you know, but, you know, it's for them, it's a it's an important case for us, for them, sometimes it's a small case. So they're very surprised. It's the first time in the region that they get a situation like that. So I don't know. We'll see.

CO: How is this going to affect your harvest this year and your winemaking?

MR: Yeah, well, you see, normally we produce roughly a 150 tonnes of grapes per year. This year, we'll have half a tonne less. So, you know, for us, it's not catastrophic, you know? But, you know, we're counting on those grapes to turn into wine later on, you know?

CO: I would imagine your wine is can be a whole lot better than whoever stole this. [both chuckling]

MR: No doubt. No doubt.

CO: Now, are you also going to be looking out for anybody who is trying to sell cheap wine out of his garage?

MR: Yeah, yeah, we’ll check the ads and we'll see if anybody is trying to promote his local garage wine.

CO: [chuckling] Well, if you could talk to the garage wine guy, what would you say?

MR: Instead of you know, our governments have asked to buy local. Not still local, you know?

CO: Oh dear!

MR: [both laughing] During this COVID thing. So, you know, but grow your own vines and grapes and buy vines. It's very easy to do. And anybody can do it in their backyard.

CO: Or buy grapes. I mean, there's a whole bunch of ways you can do this, right?

MR: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

CO: You've offered a reward?

MR: Yes. We've offered five case of wine and a special tasting with me. So to anybody who can help us out in finding the persons.

CO: Oh, that's a real incentive!

MR: Yeah. Yeah. Five case.

CO: Michel, I hope that you're able to give the prize away and find out who did this to you. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

MR: All right. Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

MR: Have a nice day. Bye-bye.

CH: Michel Robert is the owner of Côteau Rougemont winery. We reached him in Boucherville, Quebec.

Mutant crayfish

Part two: Finland therapy hack, Diagram Prize

CO: Just how threatening was this email you received on Saturday saying that your therapy records had been hacked?

GUEST: It was quite threatening, but also a little bit humorous. It said that if we didn't pay two hundred euros in bitcoin within 24 hours or 500 euros worth of bitcoin in 48 hours, then they would release more of our data. It even included instructions, like step by step on how to buy bitcoin and send it to them. And it was like they were asking for some sort of early bird special.

CO: [chuckling] Oh dear!

GUEST: You get it now if you pay your data sooner.

CO: And how did they indicate to you that, in fact, they did have information, personal information about you?

GUEST: Well, Vastaamo had sent an email a few days prior to people who were affected. So we already knew we were affected. And then the emails that we got included our Social Security numbers and our full names.

CO: And what indication, what do you think that they they know about you?

GUEST: I mean, they have your your full name, your address, your phone number. They have your Social Security number, which if they have that, they can apply for loans to just destroy your credit. It said that they have access to medical diagnoses. They have all of the therapist diaries, all the notes from your visits.

CO: And this is because you had used the services of Vastaamo, a psychotherapy centre in Finland, is that right?

GUEST: Yeah, I am lucky that I did not have them as my regular therapy provider. The amount of information regarding like visits is much more limited for me than it is for many, many other people. But, yeah, just even having if you go once, they have your information.

CO: How many people like you have been affected by this ransom?

GUEST: I think they have the ability to have up to 40 thousand people's information. Vastaamo is a really big psychotherapy business here in Finland. It's a lot of people. There are people ranging from children to people in government.

CO: And part of their ransom isn't just you, all the individuals are being asked to or told to pay this smaller amount. The company itself, Vastaamo, has been told it needs to pay a certain amount. Otherwise, they'll release even more data. Is that right?

GUEST: Yeah. So they were the ones who were ransomed originally. I think the ransom was 40 bitcoin, which is around 500 thousand in I think dollars. And the email that we receive said that because Vastaamo did not pay, that means that we have to pay.

CO: Wow! And just the threat that they're making, because ransoms are, these kinds of things are happening a lot. A lot of companies get them. But in this case, this is really personal, right? Just give us a sense of how damaging this kind of information that they might have could be.

GUEST: I mean, I worry for people who have maybe been in, like, abusive relationships or something. Like, if that kind of information about these people's deepest and darkest fears and their worries is to get into the wrong people's hands, the trauma from just having those things exposed without your consent is already so high.

CO: And some of these might be public figures, who it would be very sensitive for them.

GUEST: Yeah, I think it would be very sensitive for most people. You know, as in most countries, we’re still grappling with ending the stigma against asking for help with mental illnesses, even though especially in Finland, it's really common. And the conversation is getting better. But you don't want someone that you don't know with your address, much less someone who's, you know, the stuff is on the dark web and people don't go to the dark web for no reason. You know, the places that this information is being stored at is not somewhere that people just sort of come across things accidentally.

CO: Of course, the people who are making these threats and have this information are the crooks. But the company itself has admitted that the actual theft of this data possibly happened as long as two years ago. So what responsibility does Vastaamo have for what's happened and how late this has come about in terms of people knowing about it?

GUEST: I think they should be held just as accountable as the person or persons responsible for the hack, if not more. The information that we've gotten out there, there have been a few press releases. The CEO of Vastaamo has been fired as of today. They found out that he had knowledge of the hack, possibly up to a year-and-a-half ago. And did not disclose it when someone else bought a major stake in the company. People are very angry. There's been a lot of research into the way their systems are and how lazy or unbothered they were about protecting patients’ information. Because they sort of didn't have to or didn't want to spend the money, which is particularly egregious in Finland, because you can't throw a rock without hitting a cybersecurity or an infosecurity startup or business in this country. It's unbelievable and kind of shameful at this point.

CO: And then not to tell people that their data, their information, their personal and private information had been stolen until it actually became necessary when the ransom note started going out.

GUEST: Yeah, I had heard that they had informed us that we had been part of the breach a few days before the ransom notes, but they had only informed us then because apparently that was the end of a gag order from the police.

CO: All right. Well, we're going to leave it there. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

GUEST: Yes, thank you.

CO: Bye.

GUEST: All right.

CH: We reached our guest in Helsinki. We're withholding her name to protect her privacy.

[Music: Glassy guitar]

Victoria no COVID

CH: Andrea Rowe shared the scene of excitement at the pick-up area of her kid's school on Twitter. She described drivers flashing their headlights and "hollering" — and her teenager in tears. They were celebrating what they heard at a press conference on Monday. Daniel Andrews, the premier of the Australian state of Victoria, said that he'd be loosening restrictions in Melbourne this week. The state reported no new COVID-19 cases in a 24-hour period. The last time that happened was June. Mr. Andrews has faced criticism for putting in some of the toughest COVID-19 rules around. Now, starting Wednesday, restaurants and pubs can re-open, and Melbourne residents can leave their home for any reason they want. Here's some of what Daniel Andrews said to reporters.

DANIEL ANDREWS: If this is to mean something, then we have to take our COVID responsibilities to stay safe and stay open, to stay safe and stay connected. We have to take those responsibilities seriously. There cannot be bending of rules. There cannot be people on an endless search for loopholes. We are all in this together. And just as we've stayed the course, and yes, we've stayed apart, but remained fundamentally connected as a strong and united state. We have to be vigilant in the weeks and months to come. Until a vaccine comes, there's no normal. There's only COVID normal. So much has been given to build this precious thing. And all of us need to make sure that we honour it and value it and protect it in all the choices that we make every single day. I could not be prouder than I am today to lead a state that has shown the courage, the compassion and the character to get this job done. But it is not yet absolutely finished. So we need to be proud today. We need to be optimistic. We need to be confident. But we also need to be COVID-safe. And I'm very confident that that's exactly what Victorians will do. I am now joined by my colleagues, and more than happy to take any questions you have.

REPORTER: Can I confirm that what you’re saying is that we can finally get back on the beer?

DA: I don't know that I'll be drinking a beer tonight. I might get a little higher up the shelf.

REPORTER: Is this quite emotional for you?

DA: Oh, look, this has been a very difficult, very difficult year. And Victorians have given a lot. And I'm proud of every single one of them.

CH: That was Daniel Andrews, the premier of Victoria, Australia.

[Music: Upbeat electronic]

Diagram Prize

Guest: Tom Tivnan

CH: When I say a Canadian could claim this year's Diagram Prize, it's obviously a very big deal. This is, after all, the title of titles — the award awarded to the book with the year's oddest title. It all began in 1978, with a book called "Proceedings of the Second International Workshop on Nude Mice". And brought us to last year's winner, which — as you'll definitely remember fondly — was the late Charles L. Dobbins's self-published manual, "The Dirt Hole and its Variations." Now, a whole new batch of books is vying for titular honours. Tom Tivnan is the features editor at The Bookseller, which administers the prize. We reached him — not for the first time — in London.

CO: Tom, welcome back to As It Happens.

TOM TIVNAN: Thank you.

CO: How does the 2020 crop of contenders for this title of titles stand up?

TT: I think it's a classic year. We have a combination of the scatological, which Diagram Prize voters really seem to like and kind of the really strange and odd sort of academic titles.

CO: And there's a Canadian finalist in this year's list, right?

TT: There is a Canadian finalist, “A Dog Pissing at the Edge of a Path” by Gregory Forth, who I believe is a lecturer at University of Alberta, published by McGill Queen's University Press. So they should all be very happy about that.

CO: And what are some of the other titles on the list?

TT: Well, the other titles are: “Introducing the Medieval Ass”; “Classical Antiquity in Heavy Metal Music”; “How to Make Love to a Despot”; “Lawnmowers: An Illustrated History” and finally, but not least, the “The Slaughter of Farmed Animals: Practical Ways to Enhance Animal Welfare”. And the obvious question to that is, isn't the practical way to enhance animal welfare by not killing them or slaughtering?

CO: Right.

TT: But there you go.

CO: The title raises that question. And that raises the question as to does the content of the books matter or is it just the titles, I mean, does your team actually read the books?

TT: No, not at all. That's why this is the purest literary prize going. We don't care about what's in the books, we just go for the title. And in fact, I mean, most of the books that we pick are quite serious academic titles. They’re just kind of odd to us laymen and layperson, I should say. For example, your Canadian entry, “A Dog Pissing at the Edge of the Path”, is a very serious look at Eastern Indonesian dialects and anthropology. By the way, “A Dog Pissing at the Edge of the Path” is an idiom in eastern Indonesian dialect for someone who can't decide what to do. But it just kind of raises a chuckle to us, the general public.

CO: And then, as you point out, the range of these things. But in titles, always one similar to this one, “Lawnmowers: An Illustrated History” that just reek of tedium. [said while laughing] But that's a great title.

TT: Yeah. Tedium is a long-standing Diagram Prize trope. For example, in 2006 when it was called “The Stray Shopping Carts of Eastern North America: A field guide to Identification.

CO: [laughing] My favorite has always been “Greek Rural Postman and Their Cancelation Numbers.

TT: [laughing] And that won a few years ago. Because this has been going for 42 years now. We did a little anniversary roundup and people could vote for their greatest title of the last 40 years. And that was number one. People love Greek rural postman, I guess! [both laughing] and their cancelation numbers.

CO: I think that was why we we were talking about that day on our show some years ago.

TT: Yes.

CO: Now, when we covered your shortlist back in 2016, my co-host, Chris Howden, he described the list as something that was divided into three groups, the complicatedly banal, the racey or off-colour and the baffling. Would you agree with that?

TT: Yeah, absolutely. Those are kind of the three areas. And it's strange, there are things that crop up all the time as well, particular trends. There's been a trend recently for animal husbandry books, which I suppose the “Slaughter of Farmed Animals” — this year's shortlistee — kind of goes in with, for example, there’s “Goblin Proofing One's Chicken Coop”. So that's one of my favorites of all time, actually.

CO: [chuckles] They kind of suggests that they're going to be helpful, and how-to books. And one of my favorite how-to books that's won your past award is, “How to Poo on a Date”.

TT: Yes. [laughing] And I suppose that is a very salient book, and maybe very useful for certain emergency situations, particularly early on in one's relationship, I guess.

CO: One would hope it went beyond just one activity to be more helpful. [both laughing] But maybe you do need a whole book on that, who knows?

TT: Yeah. And yeah, as I said about the scatological, poo seems to kind of resonate with the great voting public of the Diagram Prize. “Cooking With Poo” a few years ago won. And that was a cookery book by a Thai author who’s famous poo, which obviously doesn't mean what it does in English.

CO: I know. I know that one. Now, this prize is supposedly organized by a fellow named Horace Bent.

TT: Yes.

CO: Can you tell us anything about him?

TT: Well, Horace has been with the magazine since 1858. He's been writing columns since 1858. So it's very old. And so he doesn't get out much, and he might resemble me at the moment. [both laughing as TT clears his throat]

CO: I suspected as much. We've never actually. I knew we'd never actually met Horace Bent on this show.

TT: Yeah.

CO: So I was starting to suspect that there were many Horace Bents in the background of this. Now, just to go back to this year's crop and who might be the winner? How will it be chosen?

TT: It's chosen by a public vote. You can go on our website, www.thebookseller.com. And you can just log on and vote for your favorites. I should say, I was looking at the exit polls, as it were. And I should say that the Canadian entry is surging ahead at the moment, but it's followed closely behind by Introducing the Medieval Ass”.

CO: [laughing] All right. Well, maybe having you on this show and doing this story on “As It Happens” will push more people to vote for our Canadian finalist.

TT: Yeah. And unlike the American elections, we're not going to suppress any voters.

CO: [both laughing] Good to know! Good to talk to you, tom. Thanks.

TT: All right. Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

CH: Tom Tivnan, who is also Horace Bent, is the features editor at The Bookseller, which manages the Diagram Prize for Oddest Title of the Year. You can find more on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih, including a link where you can vote for this year's oddest title. Once more, this year's oddest titles include: “A Dog Pissing at the Edge of a Path”; “Introducing the Medieval Ass”; “Classical Antiquity in Heavy Metal Music”; “How to Make Love to a Despot”; “The Slaughter of Farmed Animals: Practical Ways to Enhance Animal Welfare” and … “Lawnmowers: An Illustrated History”.

[Music: Island rock]

Chainsaw guy

CH: Ron Sullivan has a lot of experience cutting wood. Every autumn, he heads into the Newfoundland bush to get firewood for the colder months. He's had a few scratches and scars to show for it. But nothing like what he suffered last week. Mr. Sullivan was out in the woods watching his son, Nathan, work on a tree with a chainsaw. All of a sudden, the saw kicked back and swung into his leg before he could jump out of the way. Today, Ron Sullivan spoke with "Newfoundland Morning" about what happened next. And why he credits his son — and a Christmas carol — with saving his life.

RON SULLIVAN: When it first happened, I just stood there like a deer in lights. I didn't know what it was at first. And, all of a sudden, the pain started and I put my hand down, and all I could feel is a gaping hole down there. And I kind of fell back on the ground a little bit, there was a bit of moaning and screaming, I suppose. Well this not good, I said. I might have the big artery cut. And the first thing he done, he came over and he clamped his two hands on my leg and started talking to me. I was screaming and it hurt in pain. And he looked at me, and told me to focus, Dad. And he says, breathe, breathe. I don't care how much you screams and whatever, but just focus. And I want you to breathe slow, breathe slow. And he got me calmed down, which was good. My speech was starting to run together, and I couldn't pronounce my words right. And my mouth was all gone dry. But all the way he was talking to me, trying to keep me going. But at this point, he was trying something else. And he said, Dad, sing me a song, he said. I know you can't sing, but he said, sing me a song. And this goes back to years ago when he worked at a retail store here in the Grand Falls Windsor. And like all retail stores, they kind of put their Christmas music on too early. So he said, sing me a song. I said, all right, boy. I says, jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. And he kind of turned around and he said, enough of that, father boi. If you keeps that up, you're not going to make it, for sure.

MARTIN JONES: You've been cutting wood for years, the two of you. I know you have. This is your first injury, though. I mean, Ron, looking back on what happened there. I mean, this was sort of a freak accident here. But give us some advice for people who are heading into the woods with a chainsaw so they don't come into a situation like you have just experienced.

RS: Like you say, it is a freak accident. It can be prevented. I've done something that I was practicing and preaching to my son for years not to do. And I went and done it. I always told Nathan, you know, when you're cutting, assess the area, see what's there. If anyone is around you, Keep a safe distance and I'll make sure you're not there in it. And Nathan, I guess, after he assessed the area thought I had stepped back. I didn’t. It really opened my eyes. I'm lucky to be here, thanks to Nathan, I am. And my goal with this interview and the woodcutting bois is to get out there, spend the money on a pair of pants, a pair of boots, safety eyewear, gloves, whatever you can afford. But mostly, at least have a pair of pants on. It can save your life.

CH: That was Ron Sullivan speaking with CBC host Martin Jones, about how he survived a chainsaw accident last week.

Part three: R.M. Vaughan obit, Magdalen Islands cars, Last loose tooth

R.M. Vaughan obit

Guest: Jared Mitchell

CH: A lot of us have tried articulating the isolation of living through a global pandemic. But RM Vaughan's description of the feeling was especially sensitive. In the Globe and Mail this summer, he wrote, "many of us are dangling in the wind, uncertain where or even how to land." RM Vaughan was a prolific author, poet, playwright, artist, professor, and critic. He was reported missing in Fredericton, New Brunswick on October 13th. His body was found ten days later. Police do not suspect foul play. He was 55 years old. RM Vaughan wrote about a vast array of subjects — from pop culture to LGBTQ rights to living with insomnia. Here he is speaking with Matt Galloway on "The Current" in 2015, about his book "Bright Eyed: Insomnia and Its Cultures."

RM VAUGHAN: I feel perennially exhausted, but I'm 50 now, so we're we're 40 years into this. I have conditioned my life to work around this. Most of the time, I'm just, you know, what the kids call powering through.

MATT GALLOWAY: Powering through.

RV: Yeah. There's a language around sleep, and I talk about this in the book, that I find fascinating. My brother has three adult young adult children. And when they talk about their work and sleep patterns, they use language like, well, I powered through the day. Or I kept going until I crashed, as if it's some kind of extreme sport.

MG: What are some of the things that you have done to try and improve your sleep?

RV: Everything from medication to witchcraft.

MG: What do you mean witchcraft?

RV: I know this is crazy. It sounds crazy, but this is what chronic insomnia does to people. You will grab on to anything. And, you know, I just got together in a circle with other practicing witches and a spell was cast to enable me to sleep.

MG: Did you do anything?

RV: No.

CH: That was RM Vaughan, speaking with Matt Galloway about his battle with insomnia. To his friends, RM was simply Richard. Jared Mitchell was a close friend. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Jared, first of all, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

JARED MITCHELL: Thank you so much. It's been a very hard time.

CO: Judging by the comments on social media, I'd say that that loss belongs to countless others as well.

JM: He was incredibly well-loved. He was loved across generations and across the country. I'm really sorry that he wasn't better known in Canada for his sharp writing, his incredible humour and the diversity of his interests.

CO: When was the last time you spoke with your friend Richard?

JM: Oh, it was the end of September, and it was over Zoom. And Richard was never really good with technology. In fact, he was a disaster with technology. And he was on screen and he decided he wanted to have one of those exotic backgrounds that Zoome allows you. In this case, it was a jungle, foliage, but somehow he had managed to get it so the jungle foliage was all over his face rather than the background. [CO laughs] So there he was talking to me with plants all over himself. I actually recorded a clip from Zoom in which he was talking about, how miserable it was to get old, and he started quoting Betty Davis. And he said, getting old is for sissies.

CO: Huh. There's sometimes things that were funny, but there was also some other quality to them.

JM: Well, in this case, there certainly was, yes. We didn't think we would lose him so quickly or so abruptly because he had been in such good humour with everybody he talked to, laughter. And he was a great person to stay up late with because he would want to watch the stupidest imaginable movies, and you would just yap, yap, yap about any topic whatsoever.

CO: So we just heard him speaking with Matt Galloway on “The Current” about sleeplessness, about his insomnia, and that he actually tried witchcraft in order to overcome it — unsuccessfully.

JM: I wrote to him and I told him that I was having the worst dreams after the COVID started. So he said he would put a spell upon on me. And he sent me a photograph of what the spells physical contents were, which is basically a lot of construction paper and unpoped popcorn. [CO laughs] And, you know what? It worked. I stopped having those dreams, and I haven't had any since.

CO: Huh. The last article he wrote for The Globe and Mail is in July, and talking about the effects of COVID-19 on people. He writes passionately in this article about the national conversation that we need to have about COVID-19 post-traumatic stress disorder, about how people are told, okay, now you have to get out and be normal again. And then now you have to stay home and hide. And that's how difficult it is for most people to do that.

JM: Oh, it’s terribly difficult. I think it was harder on him than he was admitting. He started talking about how he could never return to Toronto because it was too expensive for what he called himself, a poor little match girl. He couldn't go back to Montreal cause it was expensive to him. And he didn't want to continue on staying in New Brunswick because I think he wanted to be back in a big city again.

CO: He was in Fredericton when he died. So what challenges was he facing there?

JM: I think the uncertainty. When is this going to be over? When can I travel again? When can I see people I love again? He had a difficult relationship with New Brunswick. He was very proud of it. But at the same time, I think he was quite aware that he had to be on a bigger stage. He was there as a writer in residence at the University of New Brunswick, and he was wonderful at it. He was really good with the students. But after a while, he began to feel a little bit constricted.

CO: And then you add the experience of the coronavirus and pandemic isolation to that. He wrote the last line in that global mail article. He said COVID-19 PTSD is real, and we, the scared and confused, are also real. See us or lose us.

JM: Exactly.

CO: Do you feel that he needed social contact?

JM: Sure. Sure. I mean, he has hundreds and hundreds of friends. There are people who were saying farewell to him on social media that I've never even met before. And I thought I was his best friend. He was somebody who had to be in a crowd, for sure.

CO: What was the universal truths that he was exploring in his writing?

JM: Definitely, he was trying to reconcile anger and tender love. The anger was often very artfully remanufactured into something enjoyable and humorous. He was never a dull writer. And yet, he could also write about how hypocrisy had crept into gay life. That being gay was not without the froofy pretensions that infect all human endeavor. He wrote an entire poem about why you shouldn't eat potato chips on Church Street because people will think you're fat. [ CO laughing]

CO: Is there a piece that has really stuck with you? That has moved you?

JM: I think it was a film we did About ten years ago, Richard gave the closest summation of life that it should be. He said the best piece of advice I ever got didn't come from my mother or my father or a teacher or a priest. The best piece of advice ever given to me was from a drag queen. She gave me the once over and said, you have to figure out what movie you're living inside and then act your part. And I think Richard didn't think he ever found the right movie to be part of. But I think he did. I think his life was the best possible creation of a narrative. And Richard's friendship was a kind of a once-in-a-lifetime thing. And if you haven't ever met anyone like him, then I don't think you've lived.

CO: Just sounds like he played so many roles in so many films. And we haven't even spoken about how he wrote through the lens of being a gay man and had a huge impact on other LGBTQ writers, didn't he?

JM: He did. I mean, he was tremendously supportive of them, even when they had terrible, terrible self-esteem. He was even great to me. I was complaining when I was writing a book which an agent told me really didn't have a market for, and he got angry. This was just a couple of weeks ago. And he said, when are you going to stop listening to what other people tell you to write? You should follow your heart. And he's absolutely right. And that's going to carry me forward.

CO: Is there a memory of him that you'll cherish?

JM: Well, yes. But it's highly idiosyncratic. We were in Palm Springs together, and he had bought one of those Terry's chocolate orange things. And he left it on the dashboard. And when he came back out to the car again, it was melted all down the car, he seemed to think that nothing was particularly wrong with that. He just thought it was a piece of art.

CO: Jared, I'm sorry again for your loss. But I do really appreciate hearing about him today from you.

JM: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

CH: Jared Mitchell was a close friend of RM Vaughan. We reached him in Toronto. If you believe you or someone you know may be at risk of suicide, you can call the Canada Suicide Prevention Service 24 hours a day at 1-833-456-4566. Again, that is 1-833-456-4566. Or text 45645.

[Music: instrumental]

British Canadian North exhibit

CH: Visitors to the British Museum in the UK's south are getting a glimpse of Canada's North. The Arctic culture and climate exhibit opened last week. It features sewing and clothing items made by Indigenous artists in the Northwest Territories. It's the first time some of those artists' creations have been seen outside Canada. Lucy Simon is an artist in Jean Marie River. Here she is on the CBC program "Northwind", talking about some of the pieces she made for the show.

LUCY SIMON: Oh, I'm just totally excited and happy about that. They wanted just something not simple, but smaller, like hairpins and brooches that mad with moose hair tufting. And I usually do bigger orders, but they just asked for something that can be seen. Not a big object, so.

WANDA MCLEOD: So they're the ones that selected what pieces of items they wanted from you?

LS: Yes, they do. They choose whatever they want to send. So they ask for it. And I just make them.

WM: Wow.

LS: It’s whatever they ask for. But it’s quite a few that I did for them, so.

WM: So how many pieces did they want?

LS: They wanted seven brooches. I think I had some of the hairpins there too with the one with a stick. And another clip. My work is always done on a moose hide

WM: Um-hmm. And that's hide that you’ve tanned yourself?

LS: I used to, but I had about four moose hide because my son shot killed two moose this fall. And my husband shot two. So I usually select moose hair in March, where the moose got longer hair for insulation. Because in the summertime, their hair is just the short hair. But in the wintertime, they have longer hair.

CH: That was Indigenous artist Lucy Simon from Jean Marie River, NWT, talking with host Wanda McLeod on CBC Radio's "Northwind".

[Music: Bright piano]

Magdalen Islands cars

Guest: Ralph Josey

CH: White sand beaches, stunning red cliffs, rainbow-coloured houses — Entry Island, one of the Magdalen Islands, is about as picturesque as it gets. The tiny Quebec island is actually closer to PEI or Nova Scotia — and it is a much-loved tourist spot for those looking to get off the beaten path. But the community has a problem. Practically everywhere you look, there's an old, abandoned car. In fact, its collection of dead vehicles is almost double the number of people who actually live there. Ralph Josey is a fisherman who lives on Entry Island. That's where we reached him.

CO: Ralph, can you just, first of all, describe for us where are all these abandoned cars on the islands?

RALPH JOSEY Well, they're scattered, you know, close to their homes or in the fields, like pretty well all over the place.

CO: And why are there so many abandoned cars?

RJ: Well, they started taking these off maybe four or five, six years ago. They take a few a year and then that would be it. But now if you take ten and ten more gets abandoned, you're not going ahead very far.

CO: I have cycled on these islands. I took a bike over there, and I was really amazed at how many people are driving, what is with all the automobiles, all the driving that goes on in these small islands.?

RJ: Well, I guess the Magdalen Islands is a fishing community, you know, and there's people checking the boats, there’s people you know, 20, 30 miles from their fishing port. So pretty hard to walk it or, you know, so they need vehicles.

CO: But Entry Island is only a couple of kilometres long and wide, right? So how did it end up having so many cars, how many abandoned cars on it?

RJ: Well, they just accumulated over the years. We don’t have no you know, roads and stuff here. It’s just gravel roads. And, you know, they buy one in the spring and drive it until it breaks down and then go buy another one.

CO: And there hasn't been a plan for how to get rid of them up to now?

RJ: Well, there's been a plan from the municipality for, like I said, the last six or seven years. You know, they come and take them. And the best way they had it, they had a roll-on, roll-off, you know, containers, you know, they'd bring it here and they'd put two, three, four cars in a container — depends on the size of them. And this was working great. A few people got to working on that. But they would bring it this week and they wouldn't come back for five weeks or four weeks. You know, like, it's just neglect on the part of the municipality. I mean, far as the Island Queen goes, there's lots of days there's nothing aboard. So they can make probably four trips a week. And I do believe, I'm not 100 perc ent sure on this, but I do believe that was a free service that they could take that back and forth. But now they have a contractor hired here to take them off. Now, whether they get off will be another story. We'll have to wait and see.

CO: Okay. So this is you're talking about there’s a plan the mayor of the Magdalen Islands says they're going to get rid of them. Maybe just tell us what the plan is.

RJ: My understanding is they're going to come with the barge and take ten vehicles at a time. They did make two or three trips so far. But, you know, it's almost November here now and the weather gets bad. And they’re supposed to have them off before the end of the year. But we'll wait and see. [laughing] Like I said, they tried different approaches here for the last five or six years. And they just don't complete it.

CO: Are people anxious to see these wrecks leave the islands?

RJ: Oh yeah, they're very happy to see them go.

CO: And so now they're relieved that this is going to happen — if it happens, as you point out.

RJ: Well, it'll surprise me if it happens. It might. But, like I said, time will tell.

CO: Why wouldn't it happen?

RJ: Because they've tried it in previous years and they don't keep it up. Like, with the roll-on, roll-off system I just spoke about, they came four or five times and that was scrapped. Then they sent a trailer over to put one vehicle on. Done that twice. That was scrapped. They hired CTMA a few years ago to take them off. They made two trips, that was scrapped. Now they've got this year. I don’t know if money is coming down through the government or where it's coming from. But I think they should be moved off myself.

CO: Right. Well, the mayor does, too. But he says once they're gone, once they have this plan in place, once it happens, that's it. That after that, they're not going to… there’s not going to be a plan for getting rid of these cars again. So do you think people will have to take responsibility for getting rid of their own cars when they get a new one?

RJ: Well, I think probably we will have to. But like, why should we spend 200 and the rest of the Magdalen spend 25? We are a part of the Magdalene Islands. We help to pay our share on the other side. So, you know, we shouldn't have to pay more just because we're a separate island from the rest of the communities.

CO: Right. So they have to figure out some way of making it fair.

RJ: Why can't they have a facility, a place here to put them until they get a barge load or two barge loads? We shouldn't be charged anymore to get rid of our vehicles any more than anyone else.

CO: How optimistic are you at this point that you will one day be rid of these abandoned vehicles?

RJ: Well, I don't think it's going to be this year, myself. It’s almost November now. The weather is getting bad and stuff like that, so, I mean, maybe they will. Maybe they won't.

CO: Okay, Ralph, we'll leave it there.

RJ: All right.

CO: Thank you.

RJ: All right. Bye.

CO: Bye.

CH: Ralph Josey is a fisherman who lives on Entry Island, which is one of the Magdalen Islands, in Quebec.

[Music: Instrumental]

Last loose tooth

Guest: Tyler Clark Burke

CH: Lou has a problem. All his friends are moving on. In pairs. On their own. Tethered to strings, tied to doorknobs, then...gone. But Lou just doesn't feel ready. His struggle to take the leap is chronicled in the colourful new kids book, "The Last Loose Tooth". An allegory about growing up, fitting in, and falling out — literally. And for its creator, an unexpected lesson in what can happen when the best-laid plans go awry. This fall, Tyler Clark Burke was supposed to be on tour promoting the book. But then a certain pandemic rolled around and took a bite out of her itinerary. Fortunately, her readers were around to remind her that all good plans have some wiggle room. We reached Ms. Burke in Toronto.

CO: Tyler, let's start with Lou, the baby tooth that’s just not ready to take the leap. Where did the idea of the story come from?

TYLER CLARK BURKE: Well, you know, I think with my family, it really started with my daughter, who just had the worst time teething, really extraordinarily difficult. And I remember when her first tooth came in, I thought, oh, my gosh, there's 20 more. And this is just going to be so painful for her and for us. And then all of a sudden, one day it fell out. And it was such an exciting turning point because all of a sudden, teething was officially done, but it heralded the arrival of the tooth fairy. So really excited. And my daughter was so excited about the tooth fairy, she would write letters and make gifts. So it was such a fun and magical experience for the family. So I think we were just really excited about teeth over here.

CO: But all kids have stories about how and where they lose each baby tooth, right? But this has to be the first story from the point of view of the teeth and how they feel about leaving the mouth?

TCB: Yeah, that's interesting. You know what? I actually hadn't thought about that. But I was listening to Paul Simon's “50 Ways to Leave Your Lover”. And I did think, how funny would it be if the teeth actually had personalities and they actually left the mouth in ridiculous ways. And I actually hadn’t thought about it. It actually is true. It probably is the only story written from that perspective, I guess because it's kind of a kooky one.

CO: Each tooth has a name, each tooth has a story. Of course, there's just those front teeth that are just show-offs, they all jump out. But then the other ones, they all reluctantly or accidentally make the journey. [laughing] All except for Lou.

TCB: Lou is very, actually, the nervousness of Lou is really inspired by my son. And he actually read the book, and he asked if it was based on him, and it kind of was. But, you know, my son actually was so afraid of the tooth fairy. So he was the opposite. And last night, actually, I was looking into his mouth, and I noticed he had a tooth missing, and he actually didn't tell anyone he lost his tooth because he was too scared, even though the tooth fairy has already come for him. And he was so excited about that whole experience as well. He's still just, by nature, is0 extremely nervous and cautious. So, yeah, Lou is really kind of based on my son. He says no to everything. He's absolutely terrified of any kind of new prospect. But then once there, he actually really enjoys himself.

CO: This is a great story in this book, “The Last Loose Tooth”. And, of course, you want people to read it, but here you are publishing in the middle of a pandemic. I know this was an American publishing deal and you're supposed to be on tour right now. So what happened?

TCB: Well, I was planning to get a little red car and cover it in teeth and totally embarrass myself and just, you know, drive around the States to different libraries and bookstores. But everything got cancelled. And I think when things were getting cancelled, all of us were kind of dealing with this period of transformation and grief together. And I sort of lost sight of the fact that I actually did have this really big thing that wasn't happening anymore. And it just sort of crept up on me about a month ago that I started to feel sad about it. And I realized, oh, you know, I'm not out on this tour that I thought it was going to be on. But then photos started coming in, and photos from all over the world. And I realized that even though I wasn't on the tour, my book, and actually, like Lou, the protagonist, [chuckling] were still on the tour. So I've been sort of documenting that. And that's been really, really helpful.

CO: What were the pictures? What were you getting?

TCB: You know what? I just got one in from Sweden about three days ago, which was so exciting. And it was really interesting to me because the weather is so different. It felt really, really big to me. And I have one that just came in yesterday from New Brunswick, and I hope I didn't mispronounce it, but I think it's Quispamsis, New Brunswick. So it's two boys in the woods, and it's just a book out, you know, into Tofino or all over the States as well, actually. And normally when I publish a book, I usually know almost every single person reading it. [CO laughs] But yeah, people I don't even know sending me these amazing photos. It's really exhilarating.

CO: And what are they telling you about how their kids respond to losing their teeth?

TCB: You know what? People sending me also pictures of their kids drawing their own teeth and their own characters of teeth. So that's really adorable. And you just realize that, you know, there's 20 teeth in the mouth and the kids can really come up with 20 characters that kind of reflect what's going on in their life at the moment. So it's really fun. But actually, the woman who sent me the photo from Sweden shared with me that her daughter didn't realize her teeth were going to fall before she read the book. So she was actually kind of a little bit horrified that she didn't, you know, nobody told her. [laughing] So I thought that was funny.

CO: Well, it is a children's book. So, of course, has a happy ending. And there's no problem with spoiler alerts because kids read books over and over again. So this book ends happily. The adult teeth arrive. They're terribly boring. And what happens to Lou?

TCB: So Lou actually eventually ends up in Tooth Fairyland. And it's a total party. And all the teeth are doing things that are kind of true to her characters. And it's just kind of really fun. And I think, you know, there's part of him that’s sort of like, why didn't I come sooner kind of thing. This is actually pretty great.

CO: [both laughing] OK, and speaking of being able to get out. Are you hoping that you can still take this red car with the teeth on it on tour? Have you got a plan when this is all over?

TCB: Oh my gosh, totally yes. I totally will. I'm actually I think I'm going to actually in the meantime, just design like a little tiny sticker to put on the side of my black Volvo just so I can kind of like keep the dream alive. But yes, I definitely, definitely am going to do it.

CO: Well, Tyler, big success with the book. It’s just great. And lovely to speak with you. Thank you.

TCB: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

TCB: Bye.

CH: Tyler Clark Burke is the author of "The Last Loose Tooth" — a book that's been going on tour without her. We reached her in Toronto.

October 26, 2020 Episode Transcript

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