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The AIH Transcript for September 19, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight.

CO: S-O-S San Juan. Hurricane Maria is long gone, but the mayor of Puerto Rico's capital city says some of the island's elderly and injured residents are suffering the most as they try to recover without food water or electricity.

JD: Right on track. Germans have elected their first far-right parliamentarian since the Nazis. And a spokesman for the party says priority number one is to close his country's borders to immigrants.

CO: Before they took a knee, he raised his fist. We revisit our 2014 interview with John Carlos the African-American Olympian who delivered a black power salute from the medal podium of the 1968 summer games.

JD: Running through the pain. Between heat at the Invictus Games a former Canadian Forces Captain describes both the thrill of the sport and post-traumatic stress injury that made her eligible to compete.

CO: Finding his voice. A producer and former collaborator remembers Charles Bradley, the soul singer who worked his way from hard luck James Brown impersonator to earn his own stardom at the age of 62.

JD: And…Hair today, song tomorrow. As Neil Young enters the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame the rocker tells would be songsmiths to treat each inspiration for a new tune like a terrified wabbit. As It Happens the Monday edition. Radio that's all ears for a good tale.

Part 1: San Juan mayor, Canadian Invictus athlete, Charles Bradley obit

San Juan mayor

Guest: Carmen Yulín Cruz

JD: They did manage to brave the storm, but the aftermath of Hurricane Maria has brought fresh horrors for Puerto Ricans. Their island has been without electricity for days. Some of the sick and elderly people are still awaiting rescue, and now food and water supplies are running low. The island's leaders are reaching out to the world for help. Carmen Yulín Cruz is the mayor of San Juan, and that is where we reached her.

CO: Mayor Cruz, just how bad is the situation in San Juan today?

MAYOR CARMIN YULIN CRUZ: Well, we are currently in a very dire situation. There is very little energy, only a couple of hospitals have been brought back into the power grid, which of course begins to help as the death toll continues to rise, especially in the inner parts of Puerto Rico, and they have to be brought into the capital city of San Juan. What we're seeing in San Juan is a lot of what I'm calling the ‘urban refugees,’ elderly people that have been left in their apartments, no water, no electricity, no food, in many cases no insulin and no appropriate medication. They are really, literally, little by little dying and starving to death. But this is devastation like I have never seen in my 54 years of life in Puerto Rico.

CO: You've described elsewhere where you've looked into the eyes of some of these elderly people to whom you've been visiting and what did you see there? What sense did you get from them?

CYC: There's two things, yesterday we had to take a gentleman out that had not received dialysis for six days, and of course his life was threatened. There was no transportation, and in one of these canvassing missions we happened to come across his daughter. There was absolute fear and horror in his eyes. People know, and understand I'm not being poetic, that as the days go by when no help comes, and I keep getting these S.O.S messages, these messages that say if anyone can hear us. People with flashlights just turning them on and off as you walk by buildings sort of signaling a cry for help. And what we're talking about is our basic needs. People on the one hand are horrified, they're scared, they're concerned about their primal needs. But on the other hand, whenever help gets there, there is that embrace that is worth a thousand days of happiness. That smile, even as weak as it is, that tells you that the fear begins to dissipate. It is the children and the elderly population that I'm concerned that we're not going to get there on time.

CO: What do you mean by that, not get there on time?

CYC: To provide them enough medication or the help that they need.

CO: So they won't get through? Your fear is that they won't they won't survive this?

CYC: Even if they withstood the hurricanes the conditions that have been created afterwards are so dire and so horrendous, that if we don't get to them on time with such basic things as water, food, insulin and we got yesterday's shipment of insulin from Eli Lilly, that so generously just came to this city and said, ‘here this is for the city and we have some for the rest of Puerto Rico.’ So people are starting to get desperate because when you cannot provide for the basic things in life you know that sense of impotence starts getting hold. But on the other hand, people are out in the streets they're cleaning, communities are coming together, they're talking to one another, and we know that nothing is going to stand in the way of us getting back, not to where we were before, but to a better place than we were before.

CO: But you need help obviously, and where is the U.S. government? Where is what they call FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency? Are you getting the support and the help that other regions have had after these hurricanes?

CYC: Well, FEMA is already here, they’ve had their boots on the ground for a couple of days already. And of course, you know, part of the phase one is canvassing and assessing what is needed and where it’s needed. The problem is that there's still about 20 towns in Puerto Rico that have no communication, 20 municipalities that we have been unable, as a country, to get a hold of. We literally have to go through a place with enough equipment to chop trees and move lighting poles aside so that we can we can move forward. And that makes the rescue operations very difficult. But I have to say that that FEMA has been here. We hosted, in our municipality for two days, 80 and then 80, total of a-hundred-and-sixty doctors and medics. We have a group of 25 people from New York City that Mayor Bill de Blasio and the speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito just put together for us, so the help is getting here, it just takes a while. We have to understand that we have never seen devastation like this in Puerto Rico, so this is a really difficult situation. We prepared as much as we could. And we're so glad to get the help we can get from the outside world. I'm so glad that our fellow Canadians and, you know, please forgive me if I get a little emotional but the fact.

CO: Sorry Mayor we’re losing you.

JD: Unfortunately we did lose connection with Carmen Yulín Cruz, Mayor of San Juan at that time, which is indicative of some of the damage to infrastructure the island has suffered. We will try to reach Mayor Cruz again for an update on the relief efforts on the island in the coming days.

[Music: Piano & Bass & Guitar]

Take a knee protests

Guest: Phil Robertson

JD: Today Donald Trump doubled down on comments he made over the weekend when he called for the firing of NFL players who kneel in protest during the national anthem. On Twitter today, he said again that football players who kneel during the Star-Spangled Banner are disrespecting the flag and the country. He also denied that his comments had anything to do with race. The players who kneel say that they are doing it to highlight racial injustice. At football games yesterday, dozens of players knelt during the anthem in direct defiance of President Trump, and many more stood arm-in-arm with their teammates. Here's a sampling of what football players had to say about the President, and what their fans had to say about them.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL THOMAS: It’s bigger than me. I got a daughter, she’s going to have to live in this world. You know what I’m saying? I’m gonna do whatever I got to do to make sure, she could look at her dad and be like, “You did something. You tried to make a change.”

RICHARD SHERMAN: It’s very interesting that he condemned the protests, the silent protests, of our players who are protesting the injustice, and bigotry and racism that has plagued our great country for so long. Seeing as he saw the white supremacists, and it took him a while to even condemn them.

MARK INGRAM: They were saying ‘Stand up, losers,’ and all that. You know that’s going to come. I’m sure if you look at social media they’re MF-ing us and telling us we’re the worst type of Americans. But I love my country.

NFL FAN: I feel it is totally disrespectful to the men and women who are serving our country right now who are laying their lives on the line for our country, for the rights that we have, that we have that we enjoy. By taking a knee and not respecting our flag.

NFL Fan: I don't agree with it. I mean, it is their right, but they wouldn't be playing if it weren't for the people that were fighting across seas.

MIKE EVANS: The anthem is different for other people. You know people say unpatriotic, but it's unpatriotic of the president not respecting our rights.

LANCE KENDRICKS: I wanted to support a teammate. Secondly, I was trying to bring some awareness to what's going on in Puerto Rico. I feel like we need to — it’s U.S. territory, we need to get over there to help those people.

NFL PLAYER: I'm not protesting the flag. I'm actually trying to honour what we're supposed to be honouring, the freedom of America, the equality of America, the justice for all and the liberty. Those are the things I'm trying to remind people that we all fought for.

JD: Those are some of the voices responding to the take a knee protest. Later on in the program we will revisit our 2014 conversation with former U.S. Olympian John Carlos, who raised his fist from the podium at the 1968 summer Olympics in Mexico.

[Music: Ambient Bass & Keys]

Canadian Invictus athlete

Guest: Helene Le Scelleur

JD: This week in Toronto the Invictus Games are paying tribute to the resilience and the strength of wounded, ill or injured military members from around the world. But some of competitor Helene Le Scelleur wounds are not as visible as some other athletes. Miss Le Scelleur served as a captain with the Canadian forces in Afghanistan, and today she is a force to be reckoned with at the Invictus Games. She is competing in wheelchair rugby, rowing and four different sporting events on the track. We reached Helene Le Scelleur in Toronto.

CO: Helene I understand you are fresh from competing in the 100 metre and 200 metres sprint this morning?

HELEN LE SCELLEUR: Yes indeed.

CO: How was that in the heat?

HLC: It was OK. I mean, we ran yesterday to do the preliminaries and I qualified for the final, so for me today with just doing the same routine, doing the same preparation and be ready for the race. But you know, at the end my goal was to make it to the final and I did.

CO: How did you do? How did you place?

HLC: I finished last in the 100 because the girls are really, really fast and I finished seventh in the 200. But eight months ago I wouldn't imagine you know where I am today, so it's just amazing.

CO: The injury that you suffer from is an operational stress injury?

HLC: Yes, I do have post-traumatic stress injury.

CO: How is being part of these games helping you to overcome what you are going through?

HLC: Well, first because of the PTSI I wasn't doing any training anymore. It was like a big deal just coming out of my house. So it did help in a lot of ways, first us to just become active again, and also to meet new people, meet new environment and expose myself to some of the triggers I was experiencing, and be able to overcome them and work on new strategies to try to help me out.

CO: What were some of the ways that the stress injury affected your life?

HLC: It went really bad at some points. I almost committed suicide, I was drinking a lot, it was kind of my medication. My family has been through a lot. My future husband, my fiancé is awesome because at points I would probably have quit my own self.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: You have quite a history and even though you're young, you’re in your 40s with a history with the Canadian Forces. I know you were in the former Yugoslavia at some key times, and you were in Kandahar Afghanistan, not very long ago, 10 years ago and it was pretty rough then. Tell us a bit about your time in the forces, especially in Kandahar.

HLC: Well, for me it was like the highlight of a career, you know. Being able to command some troops in combat zone, for me it was like, every soldier wants to do that. I was so proud to be a military person, and I would say that I don't regret anything in my career in Afghanistan, even if it was like the hardest mission and I did, it was also the one I'm most proud of.

CO: Is there a paricular trauma you went to in Afghanistan that led to your PTSI?

HLC: Yeah, one night we were coming back from a briefing, a huge briefing, because we were supposed to go on a huge mission the day after. We were last vehicle in the convoy and we hit an IED,

CO: An improvised explosive device.

HLC: Yes exactly. And at that point you don't necessarily realize what's necessarily going on because you're not scared, you're just you know responding to the situation instinctively. And when it did happen I woke up in the vehicle and everything was white, and I thought, “oh my gosh everybody's dead.” And finally no it wasn't the case, but the fact that we stayed there for almost four hours waiting in the dark, wondering if we were expecting another attack or things like that. I didn't realize until afterwards that I was totally scared. I thought I was not affected by the situation, but now I can say that I was totally scared, I was afraid to die that night.

CO: How did the Canadian forces respond to your diagnosis of post-traumatic stress?

HLC: I would say that I had great support. But at the same time there was a lot of incomprehension to this kind of injury still. So I felt abandoned by, not by necessarily the system, but by the people I was working with. It was really hard to express how I felt when they posted me on a shelf somewhere, and people were coming to me saying, “You were our star,” I was working as an aide-de-camp for the Governor-General, the former Governor General Michaëlle Jean, and I just I took a step back and I asked to leave my position because I wasn't feeling well at all. But having people coming to me saying, “You were you're the star of our branch, and now you're like the black sheep,” and being put on a shelf didn’t help at all.

CO: And once they determined that you weren't fit for deployment they didn't just put you on the shelf, they showed you the door.

HLC: Yes exactly. That's the way to put it.

CO: Just going back to the Invictus Games, you are not just competing in these running competitions, you're going to compete in wheelchair rugby.

HLC: Yes.

CO: You have full use of your legs, so what is that like for you? I mean, because you're taking a wheelchair to do that. What's it like to be in those games?

HLC: Before I had my first training camp in Victoria my rugby coach put me in contact with the team in Ottawa, and he said, “Go do some practice with them.” But I was so embarrassed, and I felt like I didn't belong there, and I was afraid you know about the reaction they might have. But finally after Camp 1 I was so excited and in love with that sport that I had the guts to go there and talk with the coach saying, “I feel a bit like an impostor because I'm walking with my chair and all people are in the wheelchair,” and they were like, “No, Helene we know why you're here, and we're supporting you.” And still after the game they asked me to join the club — to practice with them. So I was so happy.

CO: Helene, it's so good to talk to you, and I'm so glad that things are working out for you. Thank you.

HLC: Thank you so much.

JD: That was Canadian Invictus athlete Helen Le Scelleur. We reached her in Toronto.

[Music: Ambient]

Charles Bradley obit

Guest: Tom Brenneck

JD: Charles Bradley's fame may have come late but his fans are still thankful for the music he was able to make. Mr. Bradley was 62 years old when he released his first album. He had spent decades working as a James Brown impersonator. He was known as ‘Black Velvet.’ The soul singer died of liver cancer on Saturday. He was 68 years old. And now the music that Mr. Bradley made during his far too brief recording career has earned critical acclaim around the world. Tom Brenneck is a Daptone records guitarist who worked with Charles Bradley as a producer and collaborator. We reached Tom Brenneck in New York.

CO: Tom, first of all I'm sorry for your loss.

TOM BRENNECK: Thank you Carol.

CO: What was it like to work with Charles Bradley?

TB: When I met Charles I was about 19 or 20 years old, and I was very big soul music enthusiast, and our mutual friend Gabriel Roth from Daptone records had brought Charles around to a rehearsal of a group I had at the time called Dirt Rifle and the Funky Bullet. And I guess they were pretty nervous to have an elder African-American join our band, being 19-year-old Caucasian suburban kids. But we played him a couple of songs, and Charles being Charles, the first thing he did when he got into it was he stood up and started dancing, and grabbed a microphone stand and started singing James Brown lyrics.

CO: And as part of your songwriting process when you do your collaborations, Mr. Bradley would riff on your music with stories about his life, and one of those songs was about the death of Charles’ brother, is that right?

TB: Charles is actually a pretty good piano player. So I had — at the time we were in my apartment, I had a little piano in my apartment — and Charles just started messing about on the piano playing. So anyway I recorded that, him playing it, and then I recorded a song with the band based loosely around what Charles was playing, and then I played it for Charles, and He loved it so much that he decided to make that song about his brother. And that's basically how he wrote Heartaches and Pain. But that was some something really heavy that he probably needed to get off his chest a little bit.

CO: His brother was shot dead by a family member. And you say that, that started to come out in the songs his hardscrabble life, he had a rough life didn't he?

TB: He had an incredibly rough life, incredibly rough, life like just tragedy that I don't think I'll ever know in my life. And a lot of people wouldn’t know in their lives and he experienced enough of it for dozens of people.

CO: And for him to be in the 60s before he got the recognition, before actually he found his voice I guess, his real voice. How important was that for him? So many people responded, this was really, really powerful material that really, really connected with people. What did that do for him, that he was able to finally find that voice?

TB: I think it gave him a lot. When I when I met him he was so comfortable in being a James Brown impersonator that in in his community they didn't know him as Charles. They even knew him as Black Velvet, so they called them black, or they knew him as James Brown Jr, so they’d call him James. I was like, “Charles, does anyone know your name is Charles?” And he was just like, “No Tommy, everybody calls me black, it’s cool.” And even though he kind of had this confidence being that, I think that really there was a lot of insecurities wrapped up in that persona. And I mean, one of the challenging things in this whole thing, was getting him to take that wig off. I know it sounds silly, but it's really symbolic of, to me, the butterfly coming out of the cocoon. That cocoon was this James Brown impersonator, and then I got him to take the wig off, got him to stop singing James Brown songs, got him to find confidence in himself. And I think that it took about seven or eight years of working together, almost 10 years right before his first record came out. When he got on stage and shared songs about his brother's passing about, about all the abuse, a lot of running away in his life, a lot of hiding, I think when he shared that with audiences, and audiences cried, and screamed and applauded him, I think that that made him just continue to give. The man really would try to give every single person in the room a very sweaty hug at the end of each concert. He took all of his suffering, and instead of being a bitter person, or having a giant chip on his shoulder, or pointing at people and telling them what what to do, he just turned all of it into love.

CO: I just want to play — we actually have a tape clip. He did an interview with one of our shows on CBC Radio's q last year, Charles Bradley spoke, and this is really interesting, what you're saying comes out in this about what those fans meant to him and just let’s play a bit of this tape.

SOUNDCLIP

CHARLES BRADLEY: I'm seeing these young kids coming toward me now. And so that’s made me realize, “Charles now it’s not all about you. It’s your giving, your love.” If I can touch some young kid out there and show them the right way, and be honest, and keep going and listen to your true inner spirit. We all know how to go out and say things that make ourselves look good on stage, but if you can say it from the heart and mean it and help another human being, that's what I feel about now. It’s not about me no more.

CO: That's your friend Charles Bradley speaking, what do you say to that?

TB: That is him. That was his mission statement. And there's something I think kind of profound in his songs, where he had an ability to reach other people that have made maybe been through any sort of crisis in their lives — losing any loved one. It went beyond the lyrics, it went beyond his scream, but there was a way his music reached a lot of people and he knew it.

CO: Well we're going to play some of that music and before I do, I want to say thank you Tom so much for sharing your memories of Charles with us.

TB: It was my pleasure.

CO: He was very kind. Bye, bye.

TB: Thank you.

JD: Tom Brenneck is a guitarist and Daptone Records producer, who collaborated with Charles Bradley. We reached Mr. Brenneck in New York City. Charles Bradley died this weekend. He was 68 years old.

Part 2: AfD Germany, John Carlos repeat

AfD Germany

Guest: Ronald Gläser

JD: Angela Merkel has hung on to power. The German chancellor was handed a fourth mandate Sunday, but in her signature plainspoken style it was clear the elections were a disappointment, and she said quote, “Of course we had hoped for a slightly better result.” Among the chancellor's disappointments, the huge gains made by the anti-immigration, far-right Alternative for Germany party, the AfD. The AfD won seats in German parliament for the first time. Ronald Gläser is a spokesperson for AfD. We reached him in Berlin.

CO: Mr. Gläser, this is the first time since World War 2 that a far-right party in Germany has won seats in the Bundestag. So what does your party hope to change or influence?

RONALD GLASER: Well, for the first time there will be an opposition party against Angela Merkel's policy of open borders. This is very important, even more important than the question of whether we are far-right, or right wing. We consider ourselves to be conservative and libertarian.

CO: We heard from Alexander Garland last night after the post-election press conference, he warned that foreigners being brought into Germany are taking away a piece of the country, the AfD doesn't want that. He said, we don't want to lose Germany to an invasion of foreigners from a different culture, and have to take our country and our people back.” What is it you feel is being taken? Who is taking and what is taking your country?

RG: Well, Angela Merkel has begun to dramatically change our country, and Germany would become a third world nation if she could go on with it. This is what we fear and what we don't want to continue.

CO: Where is the evidence that they are posing a threat to your culture?

RG: Well, I'm in Berlin, we've had this terror attack on December 19th with 12 people dead. In the time of constant terror attacks this might be a small event, but for us it was an important thing. And we don't want Islamist and fundamentalists to come to our country and spread their ideology. This is an important thing, and it's not that we are against all kind of foreigners — we are living peacefully together with people from all over Europe. But there is a certain kind of people from northern Africa and the Middle East who are spreading fundamentalist ideas, which we reject.

CO: But you can see that the vast majority of victims of terrorism, are in fact Muslims, living in countries that are fleeing, that the hundreds of thousands of people on the move are trying to get out of places where they do not agree with the ideology that you have just spoken of, and that they're trying to get out of that and find some place for refuge. Is that not true?

RG: For those people who are fleeing from the Islamic State should be welcomed here and find shelter, at least for a certain time. But don't forget tha many other people from this part of the world bring their ancient ideology to our country. I mean, Anis Amri the man who made that who made the terror attacks here in Berlin, he came as a refugee to my country, and we don't want this kind of refugees to come here with open borders.

CO: OK but where is the evidence that this is posing — and that they're dominating or being able to use their influence? You’ve just seen in an election where there was no party of Islam that won any seats, your party won all of these seats, you took 13 14 per cent of the vote. There's no party that represents this ideology that you fear. So where is the evidence that in fact they are gaining any kind of traction?

RG: Yes, but look, a lot of German officials, including Angela Merkel, came out with the slogan “Islam is a part of Germany,” and we see it on certain occasions that small children in kindergarten they don't get swine meat anymore as food because this is forbidden by the Qur'an. Germany is a Christian country, many Germans have no understanding for this. This is one of the reasons why we were so successful.

CO: OK. But this is what we call accommodation of other cultures. Is that really as bad as it gets? I mean, is that the best example you can give it as to why Muslims are a threat to your culture — that some children, some schools are saying that they're not going to eat pork?

RG: Well, before I've already talked about the terror attack which happened here in Berlin. And this was only one of a lot of incidents which we had to in the last one or two years. And there are so many things, we have a rising crime rate, we have molestations of women, it's all done by these young men. On the television they show us families coming to our country, but the facts, the numbers are very clear, this ia all young men ,and they are out for adventure, and sometimes they are out for criminal things.

CO: I mean, can you even limit that to Muslims.? I mean, is that not something that that throughout populations? Why are you centering out Muslims? Is there evidence that they are committing more crimes than others?

RG: Well no, but look since most of the refugees coming to my country are from Muslim countries, they are Muslims, there's a clear connection.

CO: I want ask you about what happened in the party itself, because the co-founder and chairman of the party resigned as soon as you have this victory, Frauke Petry quit and stormed out of a press conference. Why do you think she quit?

RG: It's a really sad day for us today because she's such a brilliant person. She is very talented, but in a few years from now she will look back in anger to today and say, “Oh this is the day when I just finished my political career.”

CO: She slammed the party, she said it was shrill, and far out statements of some members that has caused her to leave. But yet at the same time she's called a moderate in your party. She believes, as you do, that Islam does not belong in Germany, that she has said that border police should be allowed to fire on migrants who are attempting to cross the border, she wants limits on the activities of mosques. If she's the moderate then who are the extremists with whom she is differing?

RG: Well, I think this is more a question of personal differences she has several people, such as Alexander Gauland and very many people who are considered to be moderates such as myself, who will stay in the Alternative für Deutschland and not going to leave it.

CO: You know that nationalist politics, race based policies have an added significance in Germany because of your history, because of Nazis. Can you see why many people are alarmed by your victory?

RG: This sounds like propaganda from our political opponents. Claiming someone being a Nazi outside of Germany, it's not really nice, and inside of Germany it's really a deadly assault. We are not a Nazi sympathizers. As I already told you, we are conservatives, we are libertarians. These are the first two sentences, in our program, our platform. We have no connections to any neo-Nazi groups, so this is just not true.

CO: All right we'll be watching what happens. Mr. Glaser, Thank you.

RG: You're welcome.

JD: Ronald Gläser is a spokesperson for the far-right party AfD in Berlin, and that is where we reached him.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

John Carlos repeat

JD: In our last half hour we heard the voices of athletes, coaches and owners with their take on the take a knee the protest. The protest of athletes is not a new phenomenon, and in 2014 during the protests across the United States in response to the killings of Michael Brown and Eric Garner by law enforcement officers, we spoke to former African-American Olympian John Carlos. Mr. Carlos won a bronze medal in 1968 at the Summer Games in Mexico. As the national anthem played during his medal ceremony, Mr. Carlos stood on the podium with his head bowed and a black-gloved fist held high in protest. From 2014, here's an encore presentation of Carol's conversation with John Carlos.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Mr. Carlos what goes through your mind when you see these professional athletes take a political stand in support of the protests?

JOHN CARLOS: I think we've come of age. I think they’re are replicas of three young individuals. I made a statement 46 years ago of, “If you guys think Tommie Smith, John Carlos and Peter Norman are bad guys, wait for the next generation, next two generations and we will take it from there.” And I think we've come full circle, I think many people have views now in terms of social justice. Furthermore I think that athletes realize that they have a large following, and they can no longer exclude themselves from social justice or injustices that's taking place within society because it affects them and affects their families.

CO: What you're referring to when you say that you come of age, and going back to what you did during the Olympics in 1968 in Mexico. Can you tell us what happened on that medal podium, what you did?

JC: Well, you know, we went there to make a statement in regards to the injustices that was taking place in reference to people of colour, lack of housing, lack of employment, lack of medical, care or lack of education, all of those things we stood for. We stood for poverty that was taking place, probably in the richest nation in the world. We stood for the fact that many kids are still walking to and from school. We were still dealing with lynchings and assassinations throughout the country, so all of those things were running through our minds and our souls at that particular time. I think that the big difference with today and yesterday is, we didn't have social media as they have today. So when something exploded on TV it can be railroaded throughout the nation based on social media. We didn't have that at that particular time. So most of the American public or the world public really didn't have a chance to extend that link or a chain in terms of their emotions and concerns about what they just viewed on TV.

CO: And let's just remind people this is you and Tommie Smith, you're both getting medals and during the playing of the American anthem you both made a salute, a black glove and a fist, and you held it over your head, with your eyes going down through the whole course of the national anthem.

JC: Correct.

CO: But back in 1968, the media at the time, was really against you. There were some very, very nasty articles written, you were booed and the in the stadium in Mexico City, many people in the states sports establishment turned against you. What did you make of that reaction in 1968?

JC: Well, it was a typical reaction from America. You know, first of all you have to realize that didn't anyone have a prelude that this was going to take place. So it was very shocking and revealing to a lot of people, a lot of people didn't understand. And then the media, the press, they put their spin on it to intimidate more people about what they were viewing, just based on the spin. People followed the headlines at that particular time, it wasn't about whether they could digest in their minds what they were seeing, the headlines pretty much took them where they need to be.

CO: And what effect did it have on your career as an athlete?

It didn’t have any effect on my career as an athlete, I continued as an athlete, but they tried to stop me as a father for my kids, or husband to my wife, by knocking me out of employment knocking or knocking me out from mainstream society, in terms of making me an outcast. I lost my first wife and in the midst of it all, she took her life as a result of all the pressures that were put on us. I had to do what I had to do to protect my kids and try to keep them as wholesome as strong as possible. But I don't have any misgivings about what took place. Life is like a chess game, someone put a move on you respect their move. If they put a good move down, your job is to go and create a better move to earn the respect just as well.

CO: And so this brings us to what we we’re seeing in these past weeks or so, that for instance, the St. Louis Rams, the football team, coming into the field with their in the gesture of hands up don't shoot. We saw NBA star Derrick Rose wearing the t shirt, I can't breathe, referring to the case of Eric Garner and the chokehold. NBA superstar LeBron James is supposed to wear a similar T-shirt tonight.

Do you think that there is a backlash against them, or do you think when you say at the beginning that things have changed that much.

JC: Backlash? I don't think anyone is really concerned about backlash anymore. I mean, people have lost their lives so what is a backlash to you, you’re still breathing. We have to take into account that these professional athletes or athletes in general, are not just merely collages on the wall, they're human beings, they’re not just paint on the wall to be there to be seen and not to be heard. Now is it for me to just close my eyes to it because I'm protected, or am I supposed to protect society? And I think they choose to take the route of protecting society and speaking up on the injustices in society.

CO: Do you think that these superstars, these people who have the public eye, do you think they, you certainly know and believe they have a right to do to protest politically. Do they have a responsibility to do so on in your eyes?

JC: I think they have both a a right and a responsibility.

Where do you where do you think it will go? What do you see down down the road where this protest, these statements, the activism will change something?

JC: Well, that's what activism is all about. You have to step forward in order to make people uncomfortable to want to sit down and have discussions about making change and making a better society for all people. If I had a grievance about something and I kept a grievance within myself, what is that going to change? Other than give me misery because I see it happening every day and I haven't spoken up on it.

CO: Do you think that people or anyone is remembering you and your gesture and inspired by that today as they take a stand themselves?

JC: I think people around the world have been inspired by 46 years ago. I think the current sentiments of various people reflect that in society today, that they remember that history.

CO: Mr. Carlos it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

JC: Thank you.

JD: From our archives that was an encore presentation of our 2014 conversation with John Carlos, former U.S. Olympian won a bronze medal in the 1968 Summer Games in Mexico. He and African-American Olympian Tommie Smith, who won gold, stood on the podium with their heads bowed and black-gloved fists in the air while the U.S. national anthem played. We reached Mr. Carlos at his home in Atlanta.

[Music: Jazz]

Neil Young

JD: Neil Young had some haunting advice for would-be songwriters on Saturday. Not in the sense of building a blind or grabbing a shotgun though. Mr. Young was being inducted into the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame, the ceremony was held at Massey Hall in Toronto, where Neil Young was born. And there were tributes from Buffy St. Marie and K.D. Lang, and a long reminiscence from Randy Bachman about trying to out-rock Neil Young in the Winnipeg of the early 60s. Now after 50 years of stardom you might expect that Neil Young would take this sort of stuff in stride, but he did take the stage and he seemed genuinely touched. He acknowledged fellow inductee Bruce Cockburn, the assembled fans, fellow stars. He began though, with the songs themselves.

SOUNDCLIP

NEIL YOUNG: Songs are like animals, and you really have to be careful with them, and sneak up on them and don't scare them. They’re like rabbits, if it's coming out of a hole you're not going to stand there with a gun or the rabbit will see you and go back down the hole. So you put the gun down, go sit over there behind a rock, and wait for this song-rabbit to come out of the hole, start sniffing around, and you start sniffing around too, try to be like the rabbit, be cool. But I love to write songs, and I started writing another one the other day and I was saying to my true love, I was saying you know, it feels — they're still coming — they just keep coming, they don't care about awards and accolades and nothing matters. It just keeps coming. And it's such, a gift such a great gift, and I don't really want to say other than if you write songs, then good for you, that's good. If you like yourself and you like writing songs but you you're scared to get out in front of people because you can't sing and you have no charisma, I don't know if I have charisma or not, you know, I just keep changing. But I know I can't sing, OK, that’s OK.

[APPLAUSE]

NY: It really doesn't matter, I'm around the note somewhere, I’m near it, I know it, it Knows me. We've been together for a while, not for long though. Anyway, songwriting is great. It's a lot of fun. Imagine getting an award for writing a song. How crazy is that?

JD: That was Neil Young speaking in Toronto Saturday night as he was inducted into the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame.

Part 3: Holocaust charges, Kurdish referendum

Rick Mercer

JD: Rick Mercer is saying good bye. The Rick Mercer Report will launch its 15th and final season tomorrow on CBC Television. And Rick posted the announcement on Twitter in a especially taped rant. Here's part of that message.

SOUNDCLIP

RICK MERCER: If you can believe it, this will be the 15th season of the show. And sure it has evolved over the years, but one thing that has always remained consistent is this, I've always known I have the best job in the country. It has been a huge privilege to be invited into your home every single week. I can't tell you how much fun it's been. So yes, this is the 15th season of the Mercer Report. It is also the final season. What's next? I have no idea.

JD: Rick Mercer announcing the end of his show the Rick Mercer Report. The final season launches tomorrow at 8:00 on CBC-TV.

[Music: Industrial Hip-Hop]

Thelma Chalifoux obit

JD: She is being remembered as a trailblazer who just did not take no for an answer. On Friday Métis activist Thelma Chalifoux died. She was 88 years old. Ms. Chalifoux’s life was full of firsts. She was the first Indigenous woman appointed to the Senate. She was the first Métis woman on the Senate of the University of Alberta, and the first woman to receive a National Aboriginal achievement award. Ms. Chalifoux pushed for a commitment to putting others first, in particular indigenous communities. As she once told The Canadian Press quote, “When you develop communities it's like working in the trenches. You train the people to become self-sufficient.” In February of 2000 Thelma Chalifoux spoke at a ceremony in Saskatoon’s City Hall to mark the beginning of the city's race relations month. The ceremony came just a week after Ms. Chalifoux had strongly criticized the city's policing of indigenous people. From our archives, here's part of that speech.

SOUNDCLIP

THELMA CHALIFOUX: You know, today I have very mixed feelings. We can legislate anything but attitudes. How can we as Canadians allow racism and bigotry to exist in all segments of our society? You know, my children and I face the discrimination and the bigotry, and I came to realize many years ago that only by education, by communication, by coming together as Canadians, will we ever be able to address these issues. I have spoken for years in cross-cultural workshops, in statements and in speaking to anybody that will listen, that we must begin to listen to each other. We must begin to look, not on the outside but on the inside. You children, you are our future. You're going to be our leaders. You're going to be mothers and fathers. Are you going to teach your children to hate? By learning now, you will be able to go forward in your lives, to be really good, proud Canadians. I tell everybody, wherever I speak, my citizenship is Canadian, my nationality is Métis. And that is how we have to be so proud of ourselves, of our city, our communities and our country. Always remember that until we begin speaking together as human beings, we will never ever be able to succeed as good, strong proud Canadians.

JD: From February of 2000 that was Métis activist and former senator Thelma Chalifoux have to speaking at Saskatoon City Hall. Ms. Chalifoux died on Friday. She was 88 years old.

[Music: Ambient Pulses]

Holocaust charges

Guest: Yohan Beniziri

JD: In Belgium vocally denying or doubting the Holocaust is a crime. A crime for which the former far-right lawmaker Laurent Louis was found guilty. At first Monsieur Louis was given a sentence of six months in jail and a fine of almost $25,000. Now the judge has modified that sentence, to force Monsieur Louis to confront the history he sought to deny. Yohan Beniziri is the president of the Belgian Federation of Jewish Organizations. That is the group that initiated the complaint against Laurent Louis. We reached Mr. Benizri in Brussels.

CO: Mr. Benizri what is this new modified sentence that the Brussels court has given to Laurent Louis?

YOHAN BENIZRI: Well, this judge on appeal confirmed that Laurent Louis was guilty of Holocaust denial and guilty of hate speech, and the way that the sentence worked is that there is a condition that would suspend the application of the sentence if Laurent Louis visits for five years in a row, Nazi camps, concentration and extermination camps, in Poland and in other countries, and reports back on them on his blog, because Laurent Louis was arguing that he had changed and that now he wanted to make amends.

CO: OK so what is that instead of — he was facing jail time, prison time was he not?

YB: So, he was condemned to both jail time and a fine, but the sentence is suspended if he fulfilled the condition that the court has set.

CO: OK so he has to go each year, for five years to camps like Auschwitz, to see what they're like then to write about and post that. So what do you think of that? Is that an adequate punishment for Holocaust denial?

YB: The purpose of a civil party in a criminal case is really to achieve one thing, which is to make sure that the qualification of the statements that were uttered in Belgium, in the public, are qualified as Holocaust denial and hate speech, and that is what we achieved here. Now the sentence itself, the level of the punishment, is really a question of the public prosecution and whether we feel it is adequate. We think it is in line with our understanding of what should happen when those statements are uttered. But of course, there was a question in the community, and beyond the Jewish community, as to whether the punishment was harsh enough. Now there is debate in the community as to whether that is the case, but our main goal was to assert and make sure that the statements themselves were found to be unacceptable, and that the judge confirmed that this was indeed Holocaust denial and hate speech.

CO: But he seems — Laurant Louis seems quite happy with this outcome. I mean, he has remarked that the court has recognized his writing skills, his communication skills, and that this is just a wonderful opportunity for him to actually increases his readership on Facebook or whatever. I mean, what do you make of the way he has reacted to this change?

YB: I think it was the strategic way that his lawyers asked him to adopt. But I really believe that this is — how can I put it — this is really not in line with reality. I mean the readership of on Laurent Louis has dropped significantly and consistently since he was a member of parliament. Now he's not really listened to, and we don't really care about what he says. What is important is what the court said, and the court made it very clear that the case law is evolving in Belgium in favor of the victims here of hate speech and Holocaust denial.

CO: You mentioned that he is a former politician and he's also — just for Canadians who don't know Laurent Louis — I understand he was in the centre-right conservative party, he was kicked out of that. He joined briefly the Islamic Party, got booted from there. He started a far-right group, Debout Les Belges, Belgians rise up. He has in the past accused a Prime Minister being a pedophile, he's trampled down the Israeli flag during a demonstration. I mean, is he a kind of provocateur, is he is a bit unhinged? How would you describe him?

YB: I would describe him as non-important and nonexistent, and the only way that he was able to exist to have any kind of audience was to find it in the extremes, and even the extremes have found that you know that he was toxic, so this is why I think his readership dropped significantly. The person itself doesn't concern me too much. The one reason why the Belgian Federation of Jewish Organizations decided to sue him and to launch the public action against him, was because he had, at the time an audience just because of his function as a member of parliament.

CO: Just that going back to the sentence, have you heard of a sentence like this before where someone is to go to witness history and to actually prove that they fact you are examining it and trying to understand it?

YB: No, this is the first time that I’ve heard about it, and my lawyers tell me that it is unprecedented. It seems that the sentence itself on first instance was in line with what we could expect. It was a pretty harsh sentence on the first instance. But the conditions that the court has put to the suspension of the sentence are unprecedented.

CO: So he is required to visit these extermination camps and concentration camps, but we know that these camps have sometimes denied entry to those whom they believe will not respect what they're entering. Is it possible, are you concerned at all that he will not be allowed in?

YB: It is possible, but I'm not worried about it because if he cannot enter then the conditions cannot be fulfilled and then it defaults back to the sentence of jail time plus fine. So I think, in in this case for us, it's a win on the merits, It's also a win on the sentence because either he can do it properly, and the rule of law is upheld, or he cannot do it, and then we default back to the to the original sentence, which was I think a very good sentence.

CO: We’ll leave it there. Mr. Benizri. thank you.

YB: You're welcome. Thank you.

JD: Yohan Benizri is the President of the Belgian Federation of Jewish Organizations. We reached him in Brussels.

[Music: Orchestral Ballad]

Candace Derksen

JD: It is a case that gripped Winnipeg for decades. Thirteen-year-old Candace Derksen went missing on her walk home from school in November of 1984. Her body was found months later in a shed in the city. She had died of exposure and hypothermia. In 2011 Mark Edward Grant was convicted of her murder, but he successfully appealed the verdict. Next month The Derksen family will hear the ruling in the second trial in their daughter's death. And while they wait for that verdict Candace's mother Wilma has been poring over memories of her daughter. She recently found four boxes of Candace's belongings, boxes that were marked ‘Candace's Memories.’ Wilma Derksen spoke with the CBC's Marcy Markusa about the boxes, beginning with what she thought when she opened them.

SOUNDCLIP

MARCY MARKUSA: When you open these up and start to see your daughter's things again after all of these years, what did you feel?

WILMA DERKSEN: Frankly at that moment I just felt wonderment. I was so curious, I thought I would be sad but I wasn't, and I thought, “Oh my word, I didn't remember this.” And I just went through all of it, and then I opened some letters that had never been opened by me. I mean, they were open by Candace and she'd read them, but I hadn’t never read them. The letters from Heidi, who has also passed on, Candace and Heidi were so close.

MM: Did you feel your daughter as you were going through these things? You found letters but you found her blanky? That's a real mom thing right. And her lovey I think — I don't know what that is.

WD: There was this pink little poodle like thing. Well it was, I don't know, but it was really soft, and cuddly, and warm, and that I remember it was always with her and a pink blanket that was flannelette and it was all tattered and torn at the edges. And I don't think there ever is a break in the connection. And, you know, I'm going to cry. I didn't cry then, but thinking back just — she was alive when I did it. See now I'm feeling the departure, but right at that moment it was, “Wow I'm having a visit with Candace,” so I didn't, I didn't cry, I just enjoyed the entire experience of finding this little poodle that looked a bit like a clown. And it was kind of a bank, but it had lost its stopper at the bottom of it, so she had pasted some paper to fix it again. And there was no money in it, but the whole idea of her loving something so much that she wanted to keep it and that she would just fix it with paper tape. But it was just so fun to see all these little hints of what she was like, and having a kind of conversational moment with her alive.

JD: That was Wilma Derksen speaking with CBC Winnipeg’s Marcy Markusa today.

[Music: Sombre Chimes]

Listener response: Tony Gabriel

JD: Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Those who try to repeat the past are likely doomed as well. Last week we spoke with Tony Gabriel, formerly number 77 for the Ottawa Rough Riders, who brought his team victory in the 1976 Grey Cup with an historic catch. However as Mr. Gabriel told us last week, when he tried to recreate that catch for a commercial this month, not so triumphant. He ripped his Achilles tendon and ended up on crutches. Well, that triumphant night in 1976 was also an historic night for Larry Jeffrey, and Mr. Jeffrey sent us this e-mail quote, “On November 28^th, 1976 my wife delivered our daughter at St. Thomas Hospital within a few minutes of Toni Gabriel's famous catch. Our doctor was away that Sunday attending the Grey Cup game in Toronto. So we were forced to accept the medical care of the head of obstetrics for the hospital. An hour or so prior to the catch, I passed that physician as I was entering the delivery room and I asked, “How's it going? I was promptly informed of the score of the game. Later I recall seeing the famous catch from an intern's room on the second floor, just as the phone rang telling us to hustle back to the delivery room. According to my wife a nurse was sprinkling water on the baby's head to slow the delivery until the doctor could get there. Nevertheless things worked out well for the baby, and for the Ottawa rough riders and this is a story that I've told fondly for many years. When I the interview with Mr. Gabriel I phoned my daughter and made sure she was listening.” Well thank you for sharing Mr. Jeffrey. We are glad that you were able to see the catch and still make your daughter's birth — not necessarily in that order. To comment on anything you hear on the program find us on Twitter and Facebook, both of those accounts CBC As It Happens. You can e-mail us aih@cbc.ca or give us a call. 416 205 5687.

[Music: Whimsical Strings]

Kurdish referendum

Guest: Bayan Sami Abdul Rahman

JD: Millions of Iraqi Kurds went to the polls today. They are voting on whether or not they want to form an independent state. Baghdad has called the referendum unconstitutional, the U.N. Security Council warns that it could hinder the fight against ISIS, but the Kurdistan regional government says the vote is a necessary step towards liberating the Kurdish minority Bayan Sami Abdul Rahman is the Kurdish government's representative to the United States. We reached her in Washington D.C.

CO: Ms. Rahman, how did it feel for you to cast your vote today?

BAYAN SAMI ABDUL RAHMAN: It was very emotional actually, even though I voted online, I wasn't able to be in Kurdistan which was my dream. I voted from here in Washington electronically, and I didn't expect it to be emotional but it was. When I clicked yes, in answer to the question about independence, I felt that I was voting on behalf of so many family members, fellow Kurdistanis who have suffered, endured so much, and many who have lost their lives along the way and were not able to vote today. I really felt that we who can vote, are voting on their behalf and then after you vote yes, the question comes, do you want to confirm your answer? So it became even more emotional to vote twice if you like, to say yes twice.

CO: This is a non-binding vote, it doesn't lead to Kurdish independence. What do you hope to achieve with it?

BSAR: Well, it's binding on the Kurdish leadership. Now our leaders have the mandate from the public to be able to go to Baghdad and to negotiate a peaceful separation. We haven't been able to live in Iraq peacefully. We have been the subject of genocide, of chemical bombardment, of terrorism — of all kinds of oppression. And we believe that by being neighbors to Iraq both sides can be much better, much happier and more stable. And so our job now is to engage in serious dialogue with Baghdad and try to find a way that is a win-win for both sides.

CO: But how could you be that neighbor with Iraq when Iraq opposes this referendum so strenuously? We heard Iraq's prime minister warn of dire consequences of the vote, and he vowed to never accept the disintegration of Iraq. He called it an unconstitutional decision against the social fabric of our citizens, we will not recognize the referendum nor its result. So how can you have this neighborly discussion about how you're going to be different countries without opposition?

BSAR: Well, first of all it is constitutional. I think the Prime Minister has been ill advised when he says that this is against the constitution. There is nothing in the Iraqi constitution that prevents Kurdistan from holding elections or referendums. The laws of the Kurdistan parliament are all recognized in the Iraqi constitution. Our parliament passed the law a few years ago creating the election and referendum commission so that we could do this. My answer to these threats would be that Iraq should have done a better job of abiding by the constitution that it tries to cite today, when the Peshmerga, who have been fighting ISIS so valiantly. are still not paid their salary from Baghdad. nor do they receive weapons and equipment and training from Baghdad. So there are many, many arguments that we can have with Baghdad on how we reached this position today, but the important thing is the people of Kurdistan have spoken. It is incumbent on the leader of any country, and by that I mean in this case Prime Minister Abadi, to listen to the millions of people who have voiced their demand.

CO: And just to point out the Peshmerga are forces with whom Canada is partnering in the fight against ISIS. And that's a question I want to go to about ISIS itself, the fight against the Islamic State. And many are saying, including the United Nations, that it's not good timing that, you're in the midst of this battle against ISIS, Canada is included in that, and that this is a destabilizing move on the part of the Kurds. What do you say to them?

BSAR: Well, just a few days ago, I believe two days ago, Kurdish and Iraqi commanders sat together and discussed the liberation of Hawija from ISIS, so the cooperation between Iraqi forces and the Peshmerga continues. We are 100 per cent committed to continuing to fight ISIS, to cooperating with the Iraqi army against ISIS and with the international community. I think to say that this is not a good time because Iraq is facing a conflict really misreads Iraq. When has Iraq not been at conflict? Iraq is a country that has always been either in conflict with itself or with its neighbors. And when we asked the international community, and of course particularly the United States and the United Nations, if you say it is not a good time to have a referendum now, tell us when is a good time. When would be a good time that you would guarantee the process and you would support it? Unfortunately we didn't get the answer to that. And so we never had a better alternative than to hold the referendum. We've done it, it's gone ahead peacefully so far, it's been a very humbling experience to see our people rise up in union with one voice, and to express their demand for self-determination in the most peaceful democratic way that can be done.

CO: But neighbours of the Kurdish region have another view most, particularly Turkey, that regards this as an existential threat, and as you know there's a Kurdish minority in Turkey. The Turkish President has made it clear that he's going to oppose this, and that even going so far as to prevent Kurdistan from exporting oil, which it needs to do through Turkey. So what do you say to Turkey in this regard?

BSAR: Well, we hope that Turkey will not take any rash decisions, and we believe that they will. We have had very good relationships with Turkey. We have proved to our neighbours, to Iran and Turkey and other neighbors, that Kurdistan and Iraq is a factor for stability. We have never interfered in their affairs, even though as you say, there are very large substantial Kurdish populations in Iran and Turkey. We have never interfered in what they do and what they say.

CO: Do you genuinely believe that's possible? I know that your ambition is to be able to achieve this peacefully, but do you really think this couldn't rule out without some major conflict?

BSAR: We are absolutely hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. Of course today the situation is fragile, but we believe that we can prove to our neighbors that we are taking things step-by-step. It is our right to have self-determination. There are many countries that have unilaterally declared independence. We have chosen to do things step-by-step, to do it transparently, and to engage our neighbours and most importantly Baghdad. And we hope that this is the way that we can progress forward.

CO: We will be watching. Ms. Rahman, thank you for speaking with us.

BSAR: You're welcome. Thank you.

JD: Bayan Rahman is the Kurdistan Regional Government Representative to the United States. We reached her in Washington D.C.

[Music: Electric Guitar]

Buddy Wasisname

JD: Buddy Wasisname and the Other Fellers, have been givin’ her for more than three decades, but they have announced that their current tour will be their last. Kevin Blackmore is the man behind Buddy. He spoke with the CBC's Leigh Anne Power.

SOUNDCLIP

KEVIN BLACKMORE: We're winding it down. We don't have an exit strategy other than perishing. So we're actually culminating now, and this called ‘The Best Of Tour’ for a reason. We have a pile of material which we think is our most requested sort of favorites from the past, and we decided to do this as the last sort of run through the arts and culture centres that we're doing, and we don't want to do any more long tours. I was actually considering buying a building in Glovertown, making a little theater, and if you want to see this you're going to have to calm the Glovertown.

[LAUGHTER]

Leigh Anne Power: Well, why not make house calls if you want if you want to see the band that much?

KB: You know Dolly Parton does it right down in Dolly ville, I'm thinking why can’t I do that, you know.

LP: Is Glovertown going to be renamed Buddy-ville then?

KB: Maybe. Oh, oh I hadn't even thought of that one. We got something going.

[LAUGHTER]

LP: Buddy-town

KB: Buddy-town yeah.

LP: Why have you decided to take it back now this time?

KB: We're not getting any more creative — Ray is 70, Wayne is 68, I'm 62, we've been at it 35 years — this is our 35^th year. And we just don't invent the material anymore, not the way we used to.

LP: Why do you think?

KB: I think you come to the end of your creative ideas sooner or later. It's not that we can't, we have a new piece or two in the show, but we found that in recent years we’re resting more on our laurels really, rather than coming up with a whole new sort of two hour show, which is all new and fresh you know. In the last two tours we've been pulling things from the past anyway. And then there's the whole need to sort of focus on other things in life, which are more family oriented and those kinds of things. And there are other things that we all want to do as well, but we don't actually intend to stop.

LP: Well that's a relief.

KB: Yeah we don't really want to work at the pace we've been working. When you get to this point you kind of find yourself comfortable enough maybe to leave the touring alone. I remember the Beatles were able to do that and three years after touring, and we have been to 35 years trying to get to that point.

[LAUGHTER]

LP: And you know you're right because when Paul McCartney hit a certain age he never wrote another song that was as good as the ones he wrote when he was 20.

KB: Right, yeah, when he was working with the Beatles or Wings you know he was in his prime. It tends to be the case with all human beings with they’re most creative, if you look at the way people are celebrated, they’re most creative in their teens and 20s. And then it's a slow tapering off.

JD: Slow or not so slow, for some of us. That was Kevin Blackmore also known as Buddy Wasisname. He was speaking to CBC's Leigh Anne Power on the show Central Morning Today.

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September 25, 2017 episode transcript

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