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The AIH Transcript for July 24, 2017

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

HM: They had his number. After trying for years, B.C. prosecutors secure a polygamy conviction against Winston Blackmore, the former religious leader who married 24 wives.

JD: The bodies were hot to the touch. A San Antonio city council member describes the scene after a people smuggling scheme using an air conditioned truck leaves ten people dead from the heat.

HM: The brush off. Microsoft announces that its next Windows Update won't include Paint, leading an artist who's made the graphic software his tool of choice wondering where to click?

JD: All right with him. Alberta Progressive Conservatives and Wildrose Party members vote to join forces. We hear from an MLA who says together they will push the NDP from power.

HM: In short supply. A Toronto man's walk on the beach turns into a trip down brew-drinking memory lane when he discovers two stubby beer bottles that seem to have stayed full since at least 1983.

JD: And… to cap it all off, we crack open a cold-one from the As It Happens archival cooler featuring a proud Canadians losing last stand back when the stubby was being replaced. As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that promises not to give this story short shrift.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Bountiful verdict, Texas human smuggling, stubby bottles

Bountiful verdict

Guest: Nate Carlisle

JD: A verdict today in a legal battle that has its roots in the 1990s. Winston Blackmore and James Oler of Bountiful, British Columbia have been found guilty of practicing polygamy. Both men served as bishops for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a breakaway Mormon sect that holds polygamy as a tenant of its faith. Both Mr. Blackmore and Mr. Oler are now face up to five years in prison. For more than a decade, the Salt Lake Tribune has had an official polygamy reporter. At the moment, that is Nate Carlisle. We reached Nate Carlisle in Salt Lake City, Utah.

HM: Nate Carlisle, this legal fight has gone on for years. Was this the verdict that you anticipated?

NATE CARLISLE: Yes, if only because Wilson has never denied that he’s had multiple wives. He’s never denied he was a polygamist. The question was really only a technical one: did Winston's relationships fit the definition of polygamy in Canada?

HM: So what stands out for you in today's decision?

NC: Well, it's a milestone of sorts. I mean by Winston's own estimation the Canadian government that after him in one fashion or another for 30 years. And so there's finally a conviction of something. The other is saying that to me, however, is that this is not over. There's going to be a constitutional trial. And if Winston is not successful there, then it will proceed to a sentencing hearing and there is going to be a significant argument that Winston should not go to jail for this conviction.

HM: Maybe you could remind us who these two men are starting with Winston Blackmore?

NC: Sure. Well, Winston Blackmore was born into the fundamentalist Mormon community in what's now Bountiful, British Columbia. And he was once the bishop of the FLDS in Canada, until 2002 when Warren Jeffs excommunicated him. Warren Jeffs, of course, is the president still of the FLDS. And he's serving a life sentence and then some in Texas for crimes related to sexual abuse of two underage girls. Now after 2002, Winston and those that chose to follow him with their own way. And he has a lot of support in Utah because a lot of his sort of ecclesiastical training happened in Utah on the Utah-Arizona line from the upper echelon of the FLDS. James Oler, he succeeded Winston as FLDS bishop in Bountiful. And it's not clear what his status is in the church anymore or if he's still devoted to Warren. But all indications are that he still harbors some loyalty to Warren Jeffs.

HM: How many wives were Mr. Blackmore Mr. Oler accused of having?

NC: For Winston, it was 24 and James Oler was I believe five.

HM: And are all of these wives — or were all of these wives — of legal age?

NC: The short answer is yes. Though once upon a time, the legal age was significantly different than it is now. But neither man was accused of any crime having to do with underage marriage or sex abuse. The charge was simply polygamy.

HM: Do we know anything about how these wives have been treated during the course of these marriages?

NC: I think the only complaint that we've heard was Winston Blackmore first wife, Jane Blackmore, who simply didn't like the way Winston was marrying all these women. And perhaps there was an accusation of inherent neglect because of that. But I'm not aware of that domestic violence was ever alleged here.

HM: You mentioned the question of constitutionality whether Mr. Blackmore's rights are being upheld under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. His lawyer has said they plan to challenge this, as you've noted. The question though did come up in this trial. How has that argument gone over so far?

NC: Well recently, Winston's not been doing so well. I mean once upon a time, he was successful for example in demonstrating that the independent prosecutor was chosen incorrectly. But beginning in 2011, when the B.C. Supreme Court upheld the polygamy statute, Winston’s had a lot tougher time fending off these legal charges.

HM: Why is it taken so long to get to this day?

NC: You know a lot of people have asked that. Due process is one reason. I mentioned that once upon a time, he was charged with crimes and it was thrown out over questions about the prosecutor. And you know other issues are that it's difficult to find witnesses in some of these cases. I mean a lot of these wives don't feel like their husbands did anything wrong. And so they're not inclined to cooperate. And for that matter, it's just difficult to prove a crime sometimes. You know I mentioned how there was a technical argument in Winston's case about whether his marriages fit the definition of me in Canada. That's something the prosecutor and the RCMP had to consider too in trying to bring some of these charges.

HM: Do you think there's much of a chance that this ruling will change how things are done in Bountiful, British Columbia?

NC: I honestly don't know? I'm inclined to say no just because all the fundamentalist Mormons I've talked to over the years practice this as part of their religion and it's very difficult to police a religion. You know there is a possibility that it continues it just goes more underground. I mean people are even less willing to discuss their family situations and their home lives. And that's actually a significant argument here in Utah for decriminalizing polygamy. So I think the better question is: will things really change in Bountiful, or will people just be quieter about it still?

HM: Now I understand this is a Mormon holiday today. How is the decision to hand down the verdict on this particular day being received by those in the fundamentalist segments of the Latter-day Saint community?

NC: Well, I'm not sure I'd say it's a Mormon holiday. It's a state holiday in Utah, but it does celebrate the arrival of the Mormon pioneers in the Salt Lake Valley. And certainly a lot of Mormons do recognize this day. I'm sure it's been noticed in Bountiful that this ruling came down on Pioneer Day and I'm sure to some extent it just kind of feeds into sort of the persecution complex a lot of mainstream and fundamentalist Mormons have. They feel like the government's been after them in one way or another since Joseph Smith's time in the middle of the 19th century. And here today, we've got a conviction against two men who believe they're just practicing their faith.

HM: All right. Mr. Carlisle, thank you very much for joining us.

NC: Thank you.

JD: Nate Carlisle is the polygamy reporter for the Salt Lake Tribune. He's been covering the Bountiful trial. We reached him in Salt Lake City, Utah.

[Music: Industrial]

For The Record: Charlie Gard parents

JD: Charlie Gard's parents have ended their five-month legal battle to send their son to the United States for experimental medical treatment. The 11-month old British baby inherited a rare genetic condition that caused his muscles to weaken after he was born. He has been unable to breathe without a ventilator. And doctors at London's Great Ormond Street hospital argued that Charlie should be taken off life support to end his suffering. But Charlie's parents, Chris Gard and Connie Yates, fought all the way to Britain's highest court to keep Charlie on life support as they sought options elsewhere. Now, they say his muscular damage is irreversible, so the new treatment wouldn't help. The parents stood outside the court today and thanked lawyers, nurses and medical staff and others who supported them. They also said goodbye to Charlie. For the record, here is Charlie's father, Chris gard.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS GARD: This is one of the hardest things that we will ever have to say. And we were about to do the hardest thing that we will ever have to do, which is to let our beautiful, little Charlie go. Put simply, this is about a sweet, gorgeous, innocent little boy who was born with a rare disease. Who had a real genuine chance at life and a family who loved him so very dearly. And that's why we fought so hard for him. We are truly devastated to say we've decided is no longer in Charlie's best interests to pursue treatment. We will let our son go and be with the angels. The American and Italian team was still willing to treat Charlie, but there is one simple reason why treatment cannot now go ahead and that is time. A whole lot of time has been wasted. We are now in July and our poor boy has been left to just lie in hospital for months without any treatment while lengthy courts battle have been fought. Our son is an absolute warrior and we could not be prouder of him and we will miss him terribly. We are now going to spend our last precious moments with our son Charlie. Who, unfortunately, won’t make his first birthday in just under two weeks’ time. To Charlie, we say Mom and Daddy love you so much. We always have and we always will. And we're so sorry that we couldn’t save you. Sweet dreams, baby. Sleep tight our beautiful little boy. We love you.

JD: For the record, that was Chris gard, father of Charlie Gard. Today, Mr. Gard and Charlie's mother, Connie Yates, publicly said goodbye to their infant son after ending their fight to seek experimental treatment for Charlie.

[Music: Sad piano music]

Texas human smuggling

Guest: Rey Saldana

JD: He claims he had no idea he was hauling precious cargo. But today, a truck driver in San Antonio was charged under U.S. federal law after ten people died. They had been driven into the United States in the back of a transport trailer. Police found the truck in a Wal-Mart parking lot early Sunday morning in the sweltering Texas heat. Inside, dozens of migrants were dangerously overheated. They had been taken across the border — allegedly — by human smugglers. The survivors are now being treated in hospital. Rey Saldana is a city councilmember in San Antonio. And that's where we reached him.

HM: Councilman Saldana, you got a call from the police soon after the trailer was discovered. What did you see when you arrived on the scene?

REY SALDANA: Sure. So I arrived on scene about 2:40 a.m. and what we saw was an abandoned trailer. The driver, from what we were told, had about 100 passengers in a vehicle. No telling how much time it spent in the Texas heat, but upon arriving, there had already been a caravan of up close to two-dozen individuals who were taken in critical condition to seven different hospitals in San Antonio. And the only thing that was left was eight yellow body bags of the individuals who did not, unfortunately, make it through what was a treacherous journey that ended in San Antonio.

HM: You describe that treachery. Can you tell us what you know about what conditions were like inside that tractor trailer?

RS: Yes, so folks in south Texas are very familiar with the feeling of not having access to air conditioning and being outside even just for a few seconds is unbearable in the sun. But it tends to get something like 20 degrees hotter in an enclosed place where the temperature outside was already 100 degrees. So we imagine that it was in close to 120 and these individuals were in a trailer with literally no ventilation. This trailer was established or built for an AC unit that was not functioning for what we believe is several hours. And frankly, with seconds to spare, we might have been talking about close to 37 people in a body bags if we hadn’t gotten there at the time that we did.

HM: And you said a moment ago that there were as many as a hundred people as far as you know in the back. So what happened to the rest of them?

RS: If there is space and it is not empty on a trailer like this. So we believe that — at least the reports tell us — that there were at least 100 people. But by the time they reached Antonio, a few of them had already perhaps reached check points and been dropped off or been allowed out. In these kinds of situations, what often happens is that if you have paid an individual you are able to leave at a specific checkpoint. And unfortunately, some weren’t let out before they got to San Antonio.

HM: What effect does it have on you? What effect has it had on you to have witnessed this?

RS: I think, personally, no one’s ever prepared to see death. And death described in such a way by our medical examiners that it is almost torturous to think about the last few moments that they were grasping for air. And to hear reports from our EMT officers that they were hot to the touch. I think about the experience that San Antonio is very familiar with. With the population that we have some first-generation Americans coming into the country very recently. So I can't take my hat off and say that I'm not just… I need to oftentimes take my hat off and not just the city councilman, I'm also a person and I'm a first-generation immigrant myself. My father was an undocumented immigrant making a journey not too unlike the journey that these men made. And it just shocks the core. It shocks the soul as we think about a city that is grappling with the thought that these individuals took their last breath in a story line that sometimes weaves its way through story lines that many San Antonio families know pretty well.

HM: So what are your thoughts today about the specific man who was arrested, the alleged driver of this truck?

RS: You know, I think a lot of questions, not just in my own mind, but the mind of a lot of San Antonio residents who were trying to understand how somebody can completely ignore the fragility of what he had in the back, which were several dozen lives. I can't believe what I've been hearing so far, which is that he was unaware that these individuals may have been you know inserted into his truck when he was not paying attention. I think that we're going to find pretty quickly that this is a common practice that some of these drivers turn a blind-eye to. And so we need to have some sort of correspondence some sort of communication line with the trucking industry because obviously, we're failing some of our fellow men and women who are coming through this treacherous journey.

HM: Have authorities been able to identify the dead and the many people who are very seriously —critically even — injured?

RS: The authorities are working with a few of the consulates that exist here in San Antonio. And we don't have IDs yet on those who have passed away. In fact, our office has been getting contacted by family members of the deceased and family members of those who are in the hospital who are afraid to reach out to authorities because they themselves might put themselves in a compromising mission because of their status in the country.

HM: So these are people who are living in the San Antonio area or elsewhere who are in the United States and were waiting for these people?

RS: We believe so. They're reaching out to us very reluctantly. Sometimes only through e-mail, not leaving names, not leaving contact information through phone. So we’re in a very precarious position. We have people who have family members who they believe were in that truck who don't yet have the confidence to reach out to the authorities. And certainly don't have the confidence to walk in the hospitals to check in to see if those were family members. So you know our heart breaks that there are individual family members who may be worried that their folks — their family members — may have been one of the ten who perished or somewhere in very critical condition who could use the help of family.

HM: What happens then do you think to the dozens of people in hospital should they survive this? You know what happens next?

RS: You know we in San Antonio want to deal with these individuals as victims. We don't want these folks turned into or described or labeled as criminals. We're a city that is compassionate and does not turn our backs on any person who is in harm's way. And these individuals have been thrown into harm's way and have had several hours’ worth of a terrible journey.

HM: That's your hope for this, but are you worried that they will be deported?

RS: The worst case scenario is that they would be picked up and not have anybody to speak for them. And that won’t be the case. San Antonio and the nonprofit community here who advocates on behalf of immigrants and refugees will make sure that they are represented.

HM: Councilman Saldana, thank you very much for speaking with us.

RS: Thank you so much for your concern on this issue.

HM: OK. Good bye.

RS: Bye bye.

JD: Ray Saldana is a San Antonio city councilmember. And we reached him in San Antonio.

[Music: Ambient]

Stubby bottles/ From Our Archives: stubby bottles

Guest: Cameron Thomson

JD: Cameron Thomson is a beachcomber. And he often finds old glass and ceramics along Toronto's shoreline. But last weekend, Mr. Thomson was walking through the water at Cherry Beach when he came across something unusual. We reached him in Toronto.

HM: Mr. Thomson, what was it that caught your eye on that beach?

CAMERON THOMSON: I was actually walking along in the water. I collect beach glass and beach ceramic and so I was at Cherry Beach. I found quite a few interesting things in the water itself. So I was actually walking along and quite a bit of the beach had been eroded this year because of the high water and a lot of roots have been exposed. As I was going along, I saw these two round-shaped objects in the water that didn't look like typical shards of you know contemporary, fresh broken glass, nor did they look like weathered beach glass, nor stones. And I was just curious what they were? They were sort of brown amber the color. Yeah, that's what caught my eye was just these perfectly round shapes right on the bottom of the lake on the sand.

HM: So you pulled them out. What did you find?

CT: Yeah I did. I went down and started pulling one of them out and I thought it was kind of cylindrical object and I thought it's glass. So I thought maybe it was like I was called a torpedo bottle or something. I thought it was something old. And as I pulled it out, I grabbed both of them kind of once and, lo and behold, I had two stubbies. Unopened stubbies that had been upside down in the sand buried in the beach I guess and possibly in the water for quite a long time.

HM: There have to be people listening to this who don't know what a stubby is. Can you just explain? Just in case they missed that one.

CT: I think I was about 13-years-old when they were discontinued. I believe it was around 1983. And the only reason I say that is because as I brought these home and looked into it, I found it an old CBC segment from that year in which somebody was bemoaning the passing of these beer bottles, which were I think quintessentially Canadian. Although over the weekend, I found out they had been in Australia as well, but certainly not American.

HM: Now, you said they haven't been made since 1983. You have any idea the vintage of these two bottles?

CT: Well, I guess they're at least that old and they could be older. I don't know the caps are so rusted that it's impossible to tell what they were. The labels are gone. Although, one of the caps has a little, tiny bit of green on it. The only brand I could think of was I thought Pilsener. But they are 1983 or earlier. And I’d imagine they aren’t much better quality beer than when they were first bottled.

HM: And when you say Pilsner you’re not talking about a type of beer. You're talking about an actual brand name.

CT: Exactly. In the Instagram post that I put up, I had to make that distinction. There's a Canadian brand Pilsner and then there's the variety of beer Pilsener, spelled slightly differently.

HM: Yes. So you don't sound like you think that even brand-new this was going to be a really great beer to drink?

CT: I don't very much, although, I don't know what which companies or which breweries bottled beer in those stubbies? My impression when I was a kid was that it was sort of the typical beer that was drunk by the ordinary people of the very small hamlet where I grew up in southern Alberta. My parents didn't drink. I collected bottles though for pocket money. But my friends parents all drank out of those bottles.

HM: Are you tempted to pop one of them open to see what happens? What they taste like?

CT: I certainly am. One of them the glass is really pristine and nice and translucent. The other ones got sort of looks like crate wear or something, so it's a bit scuffed up. I might open that one, but I won’t do it alone. I’ll make some kind of occasion out of it and I'll put it in the fridge for a good long time and have some friends around and do it. I’ll definitely leave one of them closed. It's an amazing thing.

HM: It's probably pretty likely that beer has skunked.

CT: I think so. It's certainly the case that the seal is broken, wouldn't you think? I mean the seal is made of rubber, plastic or whatever. Although, I don't know maybe the fact that they were upside down somehow was significant. I guess we'll find out if I open one. But I think that there's probably been some exchange of lake water. If not that, they are certainly they are not fizzy anymore.

HM: Yeah. Any idea how it might have ended up — those two bottles — might have ended up there?

CT: Well, Cherry Beach has long been a popular place for people to hang out, picnic, swim and maybe fish. And so I would imagine that back in 1983, or who knows maybe ‘73 or something, some people were down there and maybe they drank to the point where they lost track of the beer that was remaining to them, went their way and left the two bottles behind. Although, actually, people would put beer in the lake itself to keep them cool, so it could have been lost that way.

HM: Maybe somebody listening is thinking those are my beer!

CT: It could be. It could very well be because it might be sort of traumatizing to lose track of a beer, if you like beer enough.

HM: Maybe. Mr. Thomson, thank you for talking to us.

CT: Yeah, you're welcome.

HM: Okay. Bye bye.

CT: Thank you. Bye bye.

JD: That was Cameron Thomson in Toronto. And you can see some photographs of his old stubbies on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. Well, back in 1983, this program covered the end of the stubbie. The Canadian brewing industry had decided to abandon the short, brown, uniquely Canadian stubbie in favor of a taller, slimmer American-style bottle. And not everyone was happy about it. Phelan Scanlon was the secretary treasurer of the William Lion McKenzie Appreciation Society at the time. And here is some of what he said the former As It Happens host Elizabeth Gray.

SOUNDCLIP

ELIZABETH GRAY: Mr. Scanlon, what's so special about stubby, brown beer bottles?

PHELAN SCANLON: Well, they are a Canadian invention and we think this is something that you know it does go back 20 years and I look at it this way: someday, some archaeologist 200 years from now could look back and find this round, brown, stubby bottle and he’ll know by looking at it that it's a Canadian invention, which is distinguishable from say an American beer bottle. And we are so indistinguishable from the Americans in so many ways that it would be nice to you know be proud of our nice, stubby, Canadian, brown bottle. And it is the most efficient way of packing beer.

EG: Why do you say that?

PS: One thing about them is that they're only narrow towards the top and therefore, it’s easy to package them. The standardization is very efficient. Also when you spill one, all the beer doesn't go out at once because it gets trapped in little neck of the top.

EG: You sound as though you've done a fair amount of research on stubby, brown beer bottles?

PS: I have had a few run-ins with them at some places and perhaps even at home. Yes.

EG: Listen, if you so worried about the bottle. Why aren't you worried about the beer too? We're starting to let an awful lot of American beer in here.

PS: Well, that's part of our concern too. We're brewing American beer and bringing it up here. And I can't understand because it seems that once again you know the Canadians will look at the American beer and a think great! American beer, let's get it. And they forget that we've got great beer here already.

JD: From our archives, Phelan Scanlon, the secretary treasurer of the William Lion Makenzie Appreciation Society, speaking to former host Elizabeth Gray back in 1983 about the end of the stubby.

Part 2: Alberta Conservative, Microsoft Paint artist

Alberta Conservative

Guest: Derek Fildebrandt

JD: Alberta has a new party. Members of the United Conservative Party say that they are going to unseat the NDP in the province. And they are promising to deliver that victory in the 2019 election. Over the weekend, members of the provinces Progressive Conservative Party and Wildrose Party voted overwhelmingly to merge. Derek Fildebrandt is an Alberta MLA with the Wildrose. We reached him in Edmonton.

HM: Mr. Fildebrandt, why do you think this merger is good for Conservatives and good for Albertans?

DEREK FILDEBRANDT: This is going to be great for Alberta because it's going to give the people of Alberta a clear choice in the next election. The vast majority of Albertans are conservative of one part of that coalition or another. And what we've done is assemble them all into a single new united party and we received an overwhelming mandate from the members of both parties at 95 per cent each to do so.

HM: Now, your party — the Wildrose — was born out of frustration really with the Alberta Progressive Conservative party. There were some pretty harsh things said in the time since it was founded. Now, you're merging with the same PCs. Can you maybe help us understand what's bringing you together other than perhaps mutual disdain for the NDP?

DF: Well, we shouldn't underestimate how strong our mutual disdain for the NDP is. But what the NDP have done has forced us to reassess our common values, our common principles and to really check ourselves and put province before party. As of today, I'm officially a United Conservative Party member of the legislature. But you know there was good reason for the Wildrose, Wildrose had to happen. It was an insurgency of conservatism because the PC Party, I believe, had lost its way. But the NDP have been so devastating to the Alberta’s economy and so irresponsible with our finances and so ideological in their social policy that we have been forced to reassess things, look at where we're at and while there are different kinds of conservatives within the Conservative family, we believe that we are able to put something together right now that everybody's going to be able to win in.

HM: You say the Progressive Conservative Party had lost its way. What indication do you have that they've found their way back?

DF: Well, you know the PC Party had been gradually taken over by people who would be Liberals or even moderate New Democrats in any other province. You know we had Allison Redford, who would easily fit in with a Kathleen Wynne-style government leading the PC Party. And you know those folks have largely decided in this process that you know they don't want to be a part of a Conservative movement and a Conservative government and that's OK. But you know I think the vast majority of PC members and the PC Caucus are still conservative, again of different variety.

HM: When you say different varieties I mean you’re talking about a pretty big divide in some ways. I mean you have people like the former Alberta PC president Katherine O'Neill saying she feels politically homeless because she's worried that the new party is going to go in a more extreme direction. She describes herself as a “social progressive” even if she is an economic conservative. How do you bridge those divides because they can be very fundamental?

DF: Well, you know I think it's a bit of a misnomer. Some of the folks have said they think the Party will be too conservative in some sense. Those are folks who are dominantly not even fiscal conservatives. These are people who supported the Redford government running deficits for the last decade. Borrowing massive sums of money and wasting money. You know I'm more of a libertarian-leaning conservative myself and I've had no problem working together with more traditional conservatives within the Wildrose Caucus and certainly won't have any problems with the United Conservative Caucus.

HM: Yeah, you’ve been quoted yourself though as saying that you push against what you've called “milk-toast, marshmallow, vanilla conservatism”. Isn't that going to alienate some of those people who see themselves as more traditional Progressive Conservatives?

DF: No, no, no, I'm not talking about people who might consider themselves moderate conservatives. I'm talking about boring conservatism that doesn't think outside the box. I'm talking about conservatism in both the Wildrose and the Progressive Conservative legacy parties. And so when I talk about new liberty-based conservatism, we're talking about bridging the gap between Wildrosers and Progressive Conservatives and you know this new party needs to be broad-based in a big tent. But it also needs to stand for something. It needs to have guts to be willing to take firm policy positions and not apologize for them in the face of the opposition and in the media.

HM: You seem to have a pretty defined vision of what you'd like to see from the United Conservative Party. Are you planning to run to lead it?

DF: I may do so. I'm actively organizing and fundraising building an organization that will be called United Liberty that'll give us the option of doing so.

HM: What does United Liberty mean? What does that stand for?

DF: United Liberty is an organization we founded for us to be able to organize and potentially run a leadership campaign from there. The rules are going to be written by a committee that is appointed by Jason Kenny and Brian Jean. So we don't know if that committee is going to write rules with a high bar to entry that is designed to keep more anti-establishment candidates, or if it's designed to be more exclusive?

HM: Yeah, there are three people who've indicated they're running, including Jean and Mr. Kenney. Would you see yourself supporting any of those three?

DF: I have not determined if I will support someone else or not. I've ruled out supporting Mr. Jean. I get to make up my mind if I will run or support one of the other candidates.

HM: And why Brian Jean? Why are you not going to support him?

DF: I supported Mr. Jean very strongly in the Wildrose leadership last time and I've worked with him for two-and-a-half years, but I've in that time, I've certainly come to my own conclusions about the best path forward for a United Conservative Party.

HM: Some commentators have criticised you and others in your party for ushering in what they see as Trump-style politics in Alberta. Suggesting that you know like the rest of the country, your province has evolved. And the fact that it elected an NDP government, despite the fact there was a split in the vote, also indicates that people may not be as conservative as they once were. Is there a risk here that you're looking back instead of forward?

DF: Well, there are some mealy-mouthed and squishy people who think that anything vaguely conservative this instant Donald Trump “Make America Great Again”. I mean these people are just unimaginative, they can't think outside the box. The NDP only got elected in the last election because people were desperate, they wanted to get rid of the Tories and the disastrous for floor crossing among former Wildrose MLAs beforehand made the Wildrose a non-viable option to replace the Tories. The NDP was an accidental government. And Albertans up very soon afterwards with a bad hangover and realising the consequences of our actions, so we’re stuck with the NDP for this time. But I'm extremely confident that if we put forward a mainstream principle and value-based Conservative option in the next election that the NDP will be the first one-term government in Alberta’s history and be thrown to the ash heap of history.

HM: Mr. Fildebrandt, thank you very much for joining us.

DF: Thank you for your time.

HM: Bye bye.

DF: Bye.

JD: Derek Fildebrandt is a Wildrose member of Alberta's Legislative Assembly, soon to be a United Conservative Party MLA. We reached him in Edmonton.

[Music: Electronica]

Sound Of The Day: Phelps shark race

JD: Boy oh boy! It was a disappointing weekend for man vs megapredator race fans. The Discovery Channel had been hyping a Sunday night meet pitting Olympic super-swimmer Michael Phelps against a great white shark. Now, you can imagine the excitement. Or you could imagine if you could suspend your disbelief, which some people clearly did. And then they tweeted their disappointment when it turned out that a perfectly healthy millionaire had not in fact decided to jump into a swimming pool with a multi-tonned threat to his existence. What Discovery aired instead was a race with Mr. Phelps in one lane and a computer-generated simulation of a shark in the other with all sorts of science to explain how fast a real shark might have actually moved. Now, someone with the Twitter handle @HannahGBowen admitted, quote, “I honestly feel so robbed that I just watched an hour of a stupid show to see Michael Phelps raise a FAKE shark. #fakenews.” @reqnna searched for a metaphor to express her disappointment. She came up with this, quote, “Phelps racing a fake shark is like when your teacher says there's going to be a sub, but shows up the next day.” Still, imagine how the unbeatable Mr. Phelps must feel? Here's the call of the final moments of this… race.

SOUNDCLIP

ANNOUNCER: The white shark rockets over the finish line, winning the race by two seconds.

JD: Awe! from the Discovery Channel last night, that was the sound of Michael Phelps losing by almost over two seconds in the 100 meter swim to a great white shark. That was our Sound Of The Day.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Microsoft Paint Artist

Guest: Pat Hines

JD: It's a program that went a long way towards curing boredom for children in the 80s and 90s. And maybe more significantly, it provided a training ground for budding digital artists. But today, many of those artists are in mourning. And that is because Microsoft announced that, after 32 years, Microsoft Paint will not be part of its upcoming Windows 10 update. Pat Hines is a digital artist who works exclusively on Paint. We reached him in Boston.

HM: Mr. Hines, you work exclusively using Microsoft Paint. Why are you stuck on this program in particular?

PAT HINES: I think it's a couple of things: One, I’m kind of a creature of habit. Two, I just really enjoy it. It's almost like meditation for me when I use it. And I could never get into anything else, any Photoshop, or any Corel Painter.

HM: What's so great about it? Just describe how you use it?

PH: Well, what I really love about it is the limitations. I really think if you put limitations on yourself creatively, it forces you to be more creative and come up with different solutions for different problems and stuff. I basically use what's called the “line tool” to create line art in all my pieces and then I go back and I colour it you know obviously using you know the colour palette and all that. It's really a very simple, straightforward process. And anyone that watches me work has said wow! You really just do it pixel-by-pixel.

HM: So do you remember the first time you used the program?

PH: Yes, it was 1995. It would have been on my family's very first computer, which was a Compaq Presario. I don't think they make those anymore. I think I drew something it would have been something from a movie because I was obsessed with movies at the time and I still am. I think it was maybe a Terminator picture or something.

HM: Were you happy right away with how it turned out?

PH: Oh yeah, yeah. I loved the tools palette. There are a number of different things you can do with the program. And even though it is very simple — the interface is very simple — I've found over the years, that it does have some kind of interesting nuances.

HM: When did you develop proficiency with it?

PH: Well, it would have been around between 2002 and 2004, I was working as an overnight security guard at a hospital in Boston. And this was before Facebook, before YouTube and all that. It was the Freecell and Solitaire, which I don't enjoy, or Paint. And I kind of just started using Paint and it kind of whittled away the hours — the long hours — at that reception desk.

HM: So how are you feeling now that Microsoft Paint will be no more after 32 years?

PH: Well, I'm sad. At first, I was a little panicked. But when I realized that I have you know different versions of the program saved on a couple of different computers that I'll be fine. But it makes me sad for you know younger people and newer users, who won't get a chance to kind of experience its charms. The great thing about it is that it is so simple that literally a five-year-old can start playing with it. Whereas you know something like Photoshop, it's obviously a lot more complicated.

HM: So do you think you would have gotten into art if it hadn't been for Paint?

PH: I would have because I could always draw, but I was never very happy with how my stuff came out when I used physical materials. But with Paint, for whatever reason, all my stuff when I finished it looked exactly as I had pictured it in my head, or looked even better. It's the only medium where my voice kind of came out. I sort of developed my own style, which I wasn’t you know when I was using other physical media.

HM: Mm hmm. Now, you mentioned your first work. How has that evolved? What kind of drawings do you like to do now?

PH: For the last two years, I've almost exclusively been illustrating my own book. I wrote a novel that I publish to Amazon. I created about 12 original illustrations. So I created the cover and created all the marketing materials with Paint, which I'm pretty sure no one has ever done anything like that before. I know I could not have made my book cover in any other material. It was probably the longest I've ever spent on one of my MS Paint pieces. It was kind of a summation of everything I'd done up to that point.

HM: Well, you mentioned that there are other programs out there. There's Photoshop, PicMonkey, PhotoScape. I mean what are the challenges for you in using those as an alternative to Paint?

PH: Well, the reason why I am not great at using those programs is because having used Paint all these years; I draw everything with the mouse. And those programs are all, for the most part, stylus-based. So you know you're drawing with a pen on a pad. Or sometimes you're drawing right on the screen, which I'm OK at. But using the mouse and, specifically, the line tool in Paint gives me very exacting control over the image that I wouldn't otherwise have.

HM: Are you ever tempted by some of the more sophisticated features on the newer programs?

PH: Oh, I have been. I've bought them all at one point or another. You know once I could afford Photoshop or say Corel painter, I bought both of them. And I used it for a time and I could just feel myself gravitating back towards Paint. And eventually, I did.

HM: Now you say you're safe because you've got copies of this saved.

PH: That’s correct.

HM: But there are lots of other users that you obviously think could benefit by having access to it. Do you plan to do anything to try to get Microsoft to change its mind?

PH: I mean I actually have a few contacts at Microsoft. Just full disclosure: I actually provide feedback on one of their products. I’m on what they call the “creative counsel”. It’s just creative people using Paint 3D and giving feedback. But I reached out to one of my contacts there and just said hey guys, you know don't do this. But I'm not sure how much pull I have at Microsoft.

HM: Do you know why they're doing this?

PH: I'm guessing just because it's such an old program and it's basically a dinosaur of a program. It's been around for 32 years I believe. And I think as they're rolling out their new Paint 3D project, they probably just thought you know maybe we'll have one and not the other.

HM: What's different about Paint 3D?

PH: Well, Paint 3D is everything in 3D. You start out with 3D models. So whereas paint you're drawing on a two-dimensional canvas. In Paint 3D, there's a lot of interesting options. And it's actually a similar interface, very simple and I think young kids will pick it up. But I do think that Microsoft Paint is a great you know sort of entry way for that.

HM: And now it's going to have retro appeal.

PH: Well yeah, exactly. I mean I think it's had retro appeal for some time because no one really uses Paint seriously outside of a handful of artists, myself included.

HM: All right. Well Pat, thank you very much for telling us about your work and your love for Paint.

PH: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

HM: OK. Bye bye.

PH: Bye now.

JD: Pat Hines is a digital artist who works exclusively with Microsoft Paint. We reached him in Boston. And you can find more on this story and see examples of Mr. Hines’ art on our webpage: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Lullaby]

From Our Archives: Stubbs the cat obit

JD: He passed away during a sweet cat-nap. But his legacy as the unofficial mayor of Talkeetna, Alaska will live on. Stubbs the cat has died at the age of 20… human years that is. The yellow feline was elected mayor after a write-in vote in 1998. In recent years, Mayor Stubbs was in semi-retirement, opting to stay home most days rather than visit his constituents at Nagley's General Store. But Stubbs lifestyle was not always this easy. In 2013, he survived a vicious assassination attempt by a local dog. And, at the time, Carroll spoke with Stubbs's human companion Laurie Stec. Here's part of their conversation, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

LAURIE STEC: I mean Stubbs have been walking up and down the street for 16 years. I mean he's done some crazy things because he's a cat. But no, he's never been attacked.

CAROL OFF: He's 16-years-old, which makes him, I guess in people years, about 112?

LS: He's a tough old cat.

CO: You bet. I mean and he's recovered. Are you worried at all about his ability to recover?

LS: You know a little bit. I'm going to hopefully be able to bring him home maybe today. But he has to stay in enclosure for at least two months because we've got to keep him relaxed and away from people for at least a couple of weeks because that's the only way the sternum is going to heal.

CO: On Stubbs’s Facebook page, he says that he's even getting a bit of an appetite back. But we also know that Stubbs does like to have a little nip now and then?

LS: Yeah. He's probably not going to be able to have a little nip for a while either.

CO: What is his drink of choice?

LS: It's water in a wine glass, laced with cat-nip

CO: Literally nip.

LS: Lots of cat-nip. He won't drink it unless there’s cat-nip in it.

CO: He won’t drink the water unless you infuse it with cat-nip?

LS: Yes, he won’t touch it. He’ll jump because he jumps on top of the bar and his glass is always there and it's always full of water. But he’ll jump on top of the bar, sniff it and he’ll just look at us like I'm not drinking this until you put something in it.

JD: That was Carol speaking to Stubbs the cat’s owner Laurie Stec in 2013. After serving as unofficial mayor of Talkeetna, Alaska for nearly 20 years, Stubbs has died. He was 20-years-old.

[Music: Sad guitar]

Shark swallowing

JD: You at your dinner companion, who has just inhaled an entire serving of lobster thermidor, including the shell. How was your meal? You ask him. He shrugs. He shrugs again. He shrugs some more and during all this shrugging, but just before the maitre d asks you to leave, you think, I didn't even know sharks could shrug. Well, bamboo sharks not only can shrug, they have to shrug. But their shrugs don't mean “Dunno” or “whatevs”. Now, before I continue, let me tell you what bamboo sharks — like all sharks — don't have: tongues. Which means that they're missing a key tool for swallowing. So the question was: how did they get it down? OK. Now, let me tell you what bamboo sharks do have, and you're not going to like it. Shoulders. They have shoulders. According to researchers at Brown University in Rhode Island. Well I mean they have something called a “shoulder girdle”, but I have seen the bones and they look like shoulders. And I can't tell you why that bothers me, but it does. Shrug. Anyway, the Brown University scientists discovered that these shark shoulders or the shoulder girdle play a key role in swallowing for bambo sharks. The shark catches food and then shrugs and that creates suction, which pushes the food down. The lead author, Ariel Camp, said, “We think this is part of a hydrodynamic tongue.” Between that remark and the whole shark shoulders thing, Ariel Camp is not my favorite guy. Still, it is a fascinating look at how a creature with no tongue manages to get food down. And I guess it's impressive. Although, I have shoulders and a tongue and I'm finding this hard to swallow.

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July 24, 2017 episode transcript

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