As It Happens

April 19, 2021 Episode Transcript

Full-text transcript

The AIH Transcript for April 16, 2020

[host]Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden[/host]

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is "As It Happens".

[Music: Theme]

CO: Starve a fever. Ontario imposes new pandemic restrictions on social gatherings in the hopes of slowing the escalation of infections -- but an end-of-life specialist says the province is restricting the wrong things and still isn't prepared for what's to come.

 

CH: So far, they're still so close. An essential worker at an Ontario meat processing plant says preventive measures can only do so much in places that were never designed for social distancing.  

 

CO: In loving memory. A year after 22 Nova Scotians were killed in a mass shooting, one of the victims' friends tells how his neighbours have found strength in each other -- even as they still look for answers. 

 

CH: Slippery slope. For the first time in more than 50 years, a glacier on the side of Alaska's highest moment is experiencing what geologists call "a surge" -- which means its current pace is anything but glacial. 

 

CO: Rising from the ashes. Thousands have fled after a volcanic eruption in St. Vincent blanketed the island in ash -- but a handful of people in a nearby town, including our guest, say they won't be taking a powder. 

 

CH: And… a beard in the hand is worth two in the bush. British gardeners are ready to throw in the trowel, with the horrifying news that their country has run very short on things that stand very short: garden gnomes. 

 

CH: "As It Happens", the Friday edition. Radio that takes you on a journey into the un-gnomed.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Ontario COVID Worsens, Portapique Anniversary, Mt Denali Researchers

Ontario COVID Worsens

Guest: Naheed Dosani



 

CH: Ontarians got a stark warning this afternoon, provincial health officials say COVID-19 infections are careening out of control. Their latest modelling projections show that intensive care units risk being overrun in the weeks to come. This afternoon, Ontario Premier Doug Ford announced new restrictions on non-essential work and social gatherings. He also banned outdoor activities that have been established as low-risk, and gave police more power to stop anyone who was out and about, including drivers. And he repeatedly blamed the federal government for an inadequate vaccine supply. Dr Naheed Dosani is a palliative care specialist treating COVID patients in the Toronto region. We reached him in Toronto.

 

CO: Dr. Dosani, we just heard the premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, say that more people will be in the ICU if we don't get more vaccine supplies. This is a quote. It all comes down to just one thing, the supply of vaccines. Would you agree with that?

 

NAHEED DOSANI: I do agree we're in a very severe scenario here in Ontario around COVID-19. But I wouldn't say that supply has been our only concern. There has been... have been many points along the journey where we've seen that we've had an adequate supply, but we've had an inequitable rollout. We've literally vaccinated people who are at least affected by COVID-19 the most. And that just goes to show that we are not serving racialized communities, low-income people, and our essential workers. And today's announcements do not reflect the improvements and solutions that we need to get through COVID-19.

 

CO: OK. He also talked about limiting people's mobility, extending the stay-at-home order for a total of six weeks, saying that all outdoor activities have to be limited only to immediate family. Big box stores, churches, limited to numbers of people that can go in. Are these the things that are going to stop the spread?

 

ND: You know, enhanced restrictions were something that needed to be announced today in Ontario. But one thing that came out of the press conference and the announcement is more policing. And while some of these restrictions will help, we have to remember that low-income racialized people, many of whom are essential workers, have a long history of being overpoliced, and they've been hardest hit by COVID-19. We can't police our way out of this pandemic. What we were missing today in the announcement was paid sick leave, paid time off to support workers to get vaccination.

 

CO: The issue seems to be that we're going to limit people's ability to even curbside pickup for shopping. They can't go to stores. Fewer of them can go to church. They can't have outdoor gatherings. So is that really where the infection is coming from that you're seeing?

 

ND: No, what we're seeing is it's happening in... in workplaces, in production plants and factories, those kind of steps, while they may be helpful to some degree, it's not getting it at the core of where infections are happening.

 

CO: There was absolutely nothing about workplace issues, nothing in that... in the announcement that would limit or anything to stop the spread in the workplace environment, as far as you heard, right?

 

ND: I didn't hear the kinds of protections that workers need right now, and that's the heartbeat of this wave until we get vaccinated. So I worry very much for the patients I care for who are essential workers, who are having to choose between their health and paying their bills. Our governments are not supporting them.

 

CO: Why do you think he's not moving in that direction? Why not those measures?

 

ND: That's a really great question, and one that I've struggled to answer often during this pandemic, especially when we have the evidence and the science. We were told that this was political gaming, and we were... we were playing games politically. And I've literally cared for people who died from COVID-19 because they didn't have access to paid sick leave. Health workers are advocating for it -- this policy -- because we care about the people we care for.

 

CO: You mentioned the police enforcement, which is really quite extraordinary that police can stop anyone, ask why they're out, they can fine them, they can stop cars and ask people why they're out driving? There have been some pictures. People are floating pictures around this week of the Greater Toronto Area of people crammed onto buses, early morning public transportation packed in, commuters getting to those jobs you just mentioned that they have to go to. Will police be trying to enforce the numbers of people taking crammed into buses and the early morning commutes?

 

ND: Well, the picture you paint is a very bleak one. And the amount of resources that are going into more policing could have potentially just been put into, you know, increasing transit infrastructure and capacity so that people can distance and support each other. It's just one example of where our resources could have gone.

 

CO: Another thing, tighter international borders, border checkpoints at the provincial level. Do you think that that will stop the spread?

 

ND: You know, I think it will have somewhat of an impact. We recognize that travel between provinces is an issue. But to say it's getting at the core of what's causing the spread of COVID-19, that wouldn't be the thing that I would prioritize.

 

CO: What did you want to hear today from the premier?

 

ND: I wanted to hear that finally, our government would recognize that what's needed at this time more than ever is an investment in people, in the people, essential workers, the people who have gotten us through this pandemic, in our health workers who are burnt out on this on the front lines, who are helping to care for people who shouldn't be sick in the first place. Today was an opportunity to rectify these past decisions. And what we saw today was more policing and a lack of investment in the very people and humanity that we need to get through this pandemic.

 

CO: We heard Dr. Kali Barrett, critical care physician on CBC today, really, really effective interview where she said that she was treating a man who had 100 per cent oxygen he was getting he could hardly breathe. And he just desperately wanted to get to the hospital to get home because his wife was home alone, who also had COVID and the kids had COVID, and everyone had COVID, and they had no one to help. Do you hear those kinds of stories?

 

ND: Totally. We're seeing entire families and households get hit by COVID-19. We're having to admit people with COVID-19 having the children have to be admitted to the pediatric service because there's nobody else to care for them. Going to the hospital and looking at the handover documents and the screens and the ICU and, you know, seeing COVID, COVID, COVID. This is a humanitarian catastrophe. And if actions are not taken to support people, we will be in crisis. We're running out of our ICU beds. And even if they add beds, there's not enough staff to help. And I know I'm painting a very doom and gloom picture, but it's frustrating because we... we shouldn't have been here. Like, this should have never happened. And health workers on the front lines are burnt out. And we're upset because if the right decisions were made upstream, we would have never gotten to this place. It's so disappointing we're here today.

 

CO: Dr. Dosani, as always, it's good to speak with you. I'm sorry it's such a distressing picture you're painting, but I appreciate that. Thank you.

 

ND: Thank you so much.

 

CH: Dr. Naheed Dosani is a palliative care specialist treating COVID patients in the Greater Toronto Area. We reached him in Toronto.

 

[Music: Indie rock]

 

Portapique Anniversary

Guest: Joe Maclean

CH: For Joe Maclean, the memories of last year's mass shooting in Nova Scotia are still all too fresh. His longtime friend, Tom Bagley, was among 22 people killed by a gunman in an hours-long rampage on April 18th and 19th. Mr. Bagley was a retired navy veteran and firefighter -- and a husband, father and grandfather. This Sunday, Nova Scotians will observe a moment of silence for the attack's victims -- and participate in memorial walks and ceremonies to honour them. Meanwhile, a public investigation into the killings remains underway. And Mr. Maclean says plenty of questions still need answering. We reached Joe Maclean in Enfield, Nova Scotia.

 

CO: Joe, what does this weekend's anniversary mean to you?

 

JOE MACLEAN: Oohhh, [chuckle] loss, big time loss. Yeah, this is a pretty... it's a pretty sensitive weekend. I mean, I guess we were waiting for this. I have been anyway, I mean. And I was... I'm not even a family. I mean, Tom and I, I suppose we're family, and Patsy and stuff --

 

CO: Patsy was his wife, yeah.

 

JM: Patsy's his wife, yeah. I guess that's where I feel... I feel for Patsy and Charlene. Charlene's the daughter, right?

 

CO: The daughter of Tom Bagley. Tom Bagley was your friend, right?

 

JM: Yes.

 

CO: How are you going to be remembering him this weekend?

 

JM: Well, [chuckle] it's my birthday on the 19th, so... and his is the 21st. So, gee, [chuckle] I'll be going to church and will be praying for them, for sure, for Tom and for all the victims and the families. So that's... that's the biggest thing, I guess. Man, I don't know. I don't know how people can get through stuff like this without, you know, any faith. That's the way I look at it. There's such... there's still such a cloud here. Like it's…. there's, I guess, a lot of anger because, you know, when you don't get your questions answered truthfully, there's a lot of things going on in your mind. As far as I'm concerned, this is wrong. What they're doing. And hopefully --

 

CO: They being, well, who?

 

JM: Well, the police and the government, or whoever is responsible for answering these questions, which is the RCMP, I guess. That's what I'm hearing. And like Patsy, they're not getting any answers. They're not getting any truthful answers. Stories change. And... and, you know, this enquiry is just a bluff. I think it's like, you know, the longer time goes on, people will forget. Well, I hope people never forget, my God! It's...

 

CO: I want to ask you about that night because some other people who were killed were targets, some were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Your friend, Tom Bagley, was killed because of the kind of man he is, because of what he did. Can you tell us what his instinct was the morning that he was killed?

 

JM: Well, initially, I guess he heard an explosion and seen the smoke. And we both worked the fire department for over 30 years. Tom was the kind of guy that that was something that he would do. I mean, he was going to get them out of... like figuring out their house was on fire, he was running in there. He was out for a walk when all this happened, right? And his cottage was, I don't know, so many hundred feet down the road. But he ran in there expecting to help them and seeing an RCMP car in the driveway, it's like, oh, gee, like a bit of relief. Well, he's already called the fire department. And... and I'll just go see what... how I can help to rescue his friends. And then to be blindsided by this animal, and I don't know, I can't imagine what went through his mind because he was completely... he was completely blindsided.

 

CO: What the issue is, I mean, and you say that the RCMP was there was because this killer, this man who was... had been on a rampage all night long, was dressed as a Mountie, wearing and driving a fake Mountie car. And other people who were also misled by that ended up dead as well. That's --

 

JM: Exactly. Exactly.

 

CO: And that's… that's one of the big issues, right? That's one of the really big questions that people still want answered, how is it that you... you weren't told that he was dressed that way and driving that car?

 

JM: That's exactly it. That's exactly it. I mean, buddy had everything covered, like he was playing the... playing the game. He was right in. He had everything down to a science.

 

CO: When you say that the family is still…. this horrible thing hanging over them, but hanging over all of you, isn't it, in the community? The lack of the... the tragedy, but also just having so many questions?

 

JM: Absolutely. I mean, I talked to Tom's wife. And she tells me some stuff that's going on, and I mean, like she told me, she said, you know, they've lied to me. [chuckling] They tell me one story, one interview when they come and see me and, you know, two weeks later, they come and say... and they'll tell another story. Like, all these people want to know, I think, for closure is to know the truth.

 

CO: How is Tom's family doing today?

 

JM: They're not doing good, I don't think. Patsy's struggling terrible with this, and so is her daughter. Yeah, it's [deep sigh]. It's just not good, girl. Then, of course, with the COVID, that hasn't helped either, it hasn't been a chance to really gather closely with family and friends. And I mean, Patsy had a memorial service, and there was a lot of people came and expressed their sympathy. And Patsy and Charlene did a beautiful job in setting up displays about Tom. I mean, there wasn't much the guy didn't do. [chuckling] I mean, he was involved in everything. He was just... he was a great guy. He was a jack of all trades. [laughing] The man done everything. He's got quite a repertoire behind his life, that's for sure. Voluntarily worked hard for himself and his family, built businesses. Yeah, he… there wasn't a lazy bone in his body, I'll tell you.

 

CO: Well, Joe, I'm sorry you're not going to be able to celebrate your birthdays together. And I do appreciate you telling us about your friend.

 

JM:  No problem. Thank you for the coverage on that, for sure.

 

CO: Bye-bye.

 

JM: Bye now.

CH: Joe Maclean is a longtime friend of Tom Bagley -- one of 22 people killed by a gunman in Nova Scotia a year ago this weekend. On Sunday, CBC is hosting a one-hour memorial called "Stronger Together." It begins at 6:00 p.m. Atlantic.

 

[Music: Ambient]

 

Mt Denali Researchers

Guest: Chad Hultz

CHRIS HOWDEN: A glacier on the side of Alaska's highest mountain is on the move. For the first time in over half a century, the Muldrow Glacier on Mt. Denali is experiencing what geologists call a "surge". That's an extremely rare, naturally occurring movement of ice that has the glacier moving up to 100 times its usual rate. National Parks geologist Chad Hults recently reached the top of the glacier by helicopter. We reached him in Anchorage, Alaska.

 

CO: Chad, are you actually able to see the effects of this surge with your own eyes? What does it look like?

 

CHAD HULTZ: Oh, yeah. When I went up there to do an installation of all the equipment, I landed on the glacier, and I put some time-lapse cameras on the ground around the glacier. And it was just a spectacular sight. It was all crevassed up. There's massive ice walls that are crashing ice down the sides, down the lower portion. And there's these major shear zones on each side of the glacier. And so it's just a spectacular sight looking at it.

 

CO: How are you able to even land there?

 

CH: Oh, it was actually pretty tricky. We took some high-resolution aerial photography. And luckily, I was able to use that to plan where we could land. And I only found four locations that looked adequate, you know, not quite fractured enough to be of concern. And so that upper glacier is really moving really fast. And where we had originally planned to land, it was a little too broken up. So we went up the glacier a little bit more and found a suitable spot. But it was, you know, there were, you know, one foot wide cracks in that area right where we were installing one of the GPS is there. So it was a little tricky.

 

CO: Yikes!

 

CH: And I'm a little concerned about that upper GPS and whether it's going to actually survive or not?

 

CO: How fast is this glacier moving?

 

CH: The glacier is currently moving at about 10 to 20 metres per day. And we just got an update from Mark Fahnestock from University of Alaska Fairbanks that the glacier has increased in speed the last few weeks. And so the maximum speed now is about 23, 24 metres per day.

 

CO: So how much faster is that than usual?

 

CH: Well, normally, we've done quite a few baseline studies on the speed of the glacier, and it normally runs at about 10 to 20, maybe 30 centimetres a day. And so it's about 100 times faster than it normally flows.

 

CO: I think there's an expression when you're describing something that's really slow, you say it's moving at a glacial speed. [chuckling] So this is just really slow, imperceptibly slow. But this is actually a fast-moving glacier?

 

CH: You're 99 per cent correct when you say it's glacially slow, but about one per cent of the glaciers across the world are surging glaciers. And so this is one of them.

 

CO: Well, so what is a surge?

 

CH: A surge, it's defined as when a glacier goes ten to... at least ten times faster than its normal rate. And so this one flowing at 100 times faster than it's normally is clearly a surging glacier. And what causes the surge? Glaciologists have found that it's a combination of the geometry of the glacier, ice buildup at the upper reaches of the glacier. And because of that geometry, that Ice buildup can't just be released, you know, slowly through normal glacier flow. And so once that buildup gets to a certain point, hit's a threshold, then it's kind of primed to surge. As that water builds up, you can just think about the water pressure building up in the glacier, and you already have that ice buildup potential in the upper reaches. And so once it hits a certain threshold, then it just starts releasing because of that pressure buildup. And once it starts releasing and all that water goes to the base of the bed of the glacier, it basically lubricates and floats the glacier. And it loses all friction basically with the ground and just starts flowing dramatically.

 

CO: Has this glacier, the Muldrow Glacier, has it surged this fast before?

 

CH: Yeah, the last time it surged was 1957. This glacier surges on a repeat interval at about 50 years. And so it's been about 64 years since 1957.

 

CO: So this is completely naturally occurring? This is... because I'm sure people are wondering if this has anything to do with climate change?

 

CH: Yes, I kind of take an analogy as the question is, is the surge caused by climate change as are hurricanes caused by climate change? And they're not necessarily caused by climate change. But, you know, the frequency of surging, the timing of surging may change because of climate change. Some studies have shown that. But the actual process, like this surge, was expected, and it's been happening for, you know, hundreds of years. And so it's not necessarily tied to climate change.

 

CO: Is climate change a contributing factor to this?

 

CH: It may be, but you can't really tie that to this surge.

 

CO: Well, meanwhile, you got all this equipment, you got your GPS markers up there. You must feel a bit like a kid in a candy store right now as a geologist?

 

CH: Oh, it's just amazing! It's just so exciting to be a geologist right now studying this surge, and especially because when I was hired as an intern up in Denali National Park, one of my first projects up there was helping start some of the original baseline pre-surge studies. And so I was able to get out there on the glacier 20 years ago, standing on the glacier, walking all the way across the glacier because it was so stagnant. There weren't really inaccuracies on that lower portion of the glacier. So we're able to do cross-sections with GPS. And I installed a river gauge so we can get normal flows of the McKinley River that flows out of it in. And to get back there, you know, 20 years later and look at this glacier that used to be just really stagnant and basically looked like a dying glacier, looked like it's just a raging torrent going downhill with massive crevasses and crashing ice and massive ice walls. It's just... just a spectacular sight. And I just... it's so awe-inspiring to see it.

 

CO: Well, it seems a lot of people are following your... your research and wanting to know more about this surge in the glacier. And so it's good to get it from you, Chad. Thank you.

 

CH: All right. Thanks a lot, Carol. Nice talking to you.

 

CO: Bye-bye.

 

CHRIS HOWDEN: Chad Hultz is a  U.S. National Park Service geologist. He's in Anchorage, Alaska. And you can find more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

 

[Music: "The Laughing Gnome" by David Bowie] 

 

FOA: British Gnome Shortage

 

CH: David Bowie, of course, with his best-known song, the 1967 single "The Laughing Gnome". The late 'sixties were happier times for garden gnomes. But now, the UK has a problem: no more gnomes. It seems that last year, when the pandemic hit, everyone in England started gardening. And since they couldn't gather with actual humans, they gathered small inanimate men with beards. Now, garden centres have run out completely. You just can't get the little ornaments -- not even on a need-to-gnome basis. But don't worry: hundreds are still safe at The Gnome Reserve in North Devon, England. In 2001, its visionary founder, Ann Atkin, spoke with Mary Lou Finlay on "As It Happens". Here's part of their conversation.

 

MARY LOU FINLAY: Now,  Ms. Atkin, how did this collection of yours get started?

 

ANN ATKIN: Well, it was 22 years ago. I'm a painter, and painters are mad, aren't they? 

 

MLF: OK? [both chuckling]

 

AA: So.

 

MLF: If you say so.

 

AA: And I just came across gnomes, and I thought they were absolutely magical. So we started this place called The Gnome Reserve. And they give you sort of like a different dimension of seeing, don't they? You know, they're not just... to me, they're not just garden ornaments. Put it that way.

 

MLF: To you, what are they? Little people?

 

AA: Yes! Like creative imagination personified, I think. 

 

MLF: How many do you have now?

 

AA: Um,  in the Guinness Book of Records, 2010 gnomes and pixies together. 

 

MLF: How... how diverse are the garden ornaments? 

 

AA: Oh, quite diverse.

 

MLF: Yes?

 

AA: From little tiny ones, you know, from an inch or two high up to about two and a half foot, some completely modern, some 100-year-old ones. And of course, all the people that come because I like to turn everybody into gnomes when they come. 

 

MLF: And how do you do that? 

 

AA: Lend them a gnome hat!

 

MLF: [both chuckling] A gnome hat?

 

AA: [chuckling] Yes!

 

MLF: Which looks like what?

 

AA: Well, it's just a pointy hat, isn't it?

 

MLF: A little pointy hat.

 

AA: You need different ways to make you see things fresh, you know? It's like a little boy that came. He must have been about eight, I suppose. And when he handed his hat back afterwards, he said, and now I'm just Jonathan again. 

 

MLF: Oh! [chuckling]

 

AA: Do you see?

 

MLF: Yes. [booth chuckling] Isn't that wonderful? 

 

AA: I thought that just summed it up really. 

 

MLF: Oh.

 

AA: You know, you're somebody different, aren't you, when you're a gnome.

 

CH: From 2001, Mary Lou Finlay speaking with Ann Atkin, founder of the Gnome Reserve in North Devon, England. 

 

[Music: Jazz]

 

Part 2: St. Vincent Volcano, Cargill Essential Worker

St. Vincent Volcano

Guest: Tari Codogan

CH: It's almost been a week now since St. Vincent was hit by an enormous volcanic eruption. And in the subsequent days, the Caribbean island has been covered in a layer of toxic ash -- blanketing homes, and contaminating much of the island's water supply. Authorities say over 16-thousand people have had to evacuate as a result. And while thousands living near the volcano try to get as far from it as possible, Tari Codogan has chosen to stay. Mr. Codogan lives an hour-and-a-half away from La Soufrière volcano. We reached him in Chateaubelair, St. Vincent. 

 

CO: Tari, you live in an evacuation zone near these eruptions. Why have you decided not to leave?

 

TARI CODOGAN: Well, when the eruption took place, I wasn't here. You know, I was in Kingstown, but I came back during the eruption, the same day of the eruption. I got... the eruption happened around 8:30. I got back here around, say, 10:30.

 

CO: So you went back after the eruption? Everyone else is leaving!

 

TC: Yes.

 

CO: Why?

 

TC: I wanted to see it, see some of it so that I can report. And then when I got here, the driver came to pick me up. I'm like... back to take me back to Kingstown. And I'm like you can go. I'm not. I'm staying.

 

CO: But I mean, OK, it's just... I'm sure it's fascinating watching what happens when you're under a volcano, but it's very dangerous. I mean, the prime minister is saying, for heaven's sake, leave, get out of there. There's nothing that's worth risking your life for. But you were doing that?

 

TC: I don't look at it as risking my life. I've been always preparing for this. You know, I've been writing about the volcano. And I had water. I had everything. I had my bags packed. And then I have my uncle here. He's 79 years old, and I am not going to leave him. He didn't leave. So I have to stay. That's one of the reasons, too.

 

CO: Right. We can hear voices in the background. So you're obviously not alone there?

 

TC: No, no, I'm not alone. These are like a few of the persons who... who stayed back also. And they came to the bus stop, and they're just hanging out. It's like four of us here now. But there may be 20 persons in the community. And between... the community once had a population of like 6,000. So now it's like 20 persons in the whole one-mile radius.

 

CO: OK, so you're all hanging out together, the four of you at the bus... is it a bus stop you. Is that what you're --

 

TC: Yes, on the street. Well, we don't hang out together there, but that's a central part of town.

 

CO: is there ash, is there  volcanic ash falling on the town?

 

TC: Yes, volcanic ash. There are three to five inches of volcanic ash on the streets.

 

CO: Wow! And is it still falling?

 

TC: No, it's not falling. It hasn't fallen since Sunday, Saturday, you know? But Sunday was the most you had. It was like rain. It was like snow. Because I've experienced it. I lived in New York for ten years. So then it was like snowing, you know? It was like constantly snowing. And it felt like rain, a heavy, heavy snow. But it was just dust.

 

CO: OK, but when snow is falling, snow is clean; it's water.

 

TC: Yes!

 

CO: This is a pollutant. It's this dust. This is... aren't you concerned about breathing?

 

TC: Yes, I am concerned about breathing. But I have mask, and I stay in most of the time. And, you know, I take precautions.

 

CO: I can hear it now and then a little dust up of wind. So isn't that an issue with all that... the dust on the ground, the inches of volcanic ash?

 

TC: Yes, the wind. Sometimes the wind blows, and then it shows it's, you know, you have to be careful with that. But I'm taking precautions. And I got pretty good lungs. [laughing] The doctor's told me that before.

 

CO: Well, now you have good lungs, but who knows what this will do, right? 

 

TC: Well.

 

CO: Again, I go back to... I go back to my question. Is it worth it?

 

TC: It's not like... it's not like I have a hero complex or anything. It's that I lived in New York for ten years, and I came back to Kingstown 20 years ago. I came back here. And I've been here. I've been a political activist here. I've been a social activist. I've done a lot of work here. And if I leave, it's like I'm going to finally write this off. And I don't know because all my roots are here. You know, this is where my family started. So this is in me. And, you know, if I leave no, I'm not saying that I'm not going to leave. If it becomes unbearable, or if I can't... because water is an issue here. And you know? But if I leave, this is going to say that…. this has got to be in my mind that I've finally written off all hopes. I hope people understand, you know?

 

CO: Yeah. Are you able then... OK, so you're staying for... because it's your roots, and that's... that's quite extraordinary. And then... but are you able to help protect the properties of your family. Are you keeping an eye out for that?

 

TC: Well, there's nothing to protect, you know, because nobody is going to destroy it. The thing is that a lot of ash fell on the roofs. So I think it needs some attention. Now, if you take them off and such, you try to save some property, but other than that is the fact that there are so many animals here, and the dogs and the cats. You know, I'm looking after a few dogs and cats in my neighbourhood. And these animals without water, they're going to die and it's going to cause a health hazard.

 

CO: People had to leave their pets behind?

 

TC: They got to leave their pets and also livestock.

 

CO: What about water? I mean, if the water is contaminated, what are people doing? What are you doing?

 

TC: Yes, all the water is contaminated. But I had water hoarded. And I know where some sources of water are. And we can go to the waterfall at the border. That's a waterfall, and the water gushes out of the rocks. So that wouldn't become contaminated.

 

CO: Are you worried about another eruption?

 

TC: Well, it has been behaving itself since last night around 10:30. [chuckling] no eruptions! You know, and sometimes I sleep to the eruptions because it's not big explosive eruptions. It's like, you know what I mean? Like a loud generator, a loud ship, you know? And it would go for a few hours, and then it would stop. And then like half an hour later. So it's like that, you know?

 

CO: The government is trying to get everyone to leave. Will they have forced evacuations? It's possible that you will if the police are enforcing this, that you'll have to leave?

 

TC: Well, that's why I'm not sitting at my house. [laughing]

 

CO: So you're trying to avoid being found by police who might take you away?

 

TC: Not really avoid. I'm just crossing that t. I'm just, you know, trying to… [dogs bark] Wow! These are some dogs here. Still on the owner's land, still guarding and protecting. I have to come and bring some food for it tomorrow.

 

CO: Is there anybody that's looking out for you, though? If you're sort of not staying home, is there anyone sort of keeping an eye out and make sure you're OK?

 

TC: I have friends in Kingstown. You know, you know, they're willing to come in by boat, you know? They keep in touch with me.

 

CO: RIght.

 

TC: You know, so.

 

CO: Well, Tari, I hope you stay safe. It's quite something that you're doing to stay there. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

 

TC: Yeah, thank you.

 

CO: All right.

 

TC: Very much. 

 

CO: Bye-bye

 

TC: Bye.

 

CH: Tari Codogan is among roughly 20 people who are refusing to evacuate from their homes on the island of St. Vincent, despite the recent volcanic eruption. We reached him in the village of Chateaubelair. 

 

[Music: Glassy guitar riff]

 

FOA: Hong Kong Activist 

 

CH: Today, after Lee Cheuk-yan received his sentence, he spoke outside the court. He said, "...I'm proud that I can walk with the people of Hong Kong for this democracy. We will walk together even in darkness." Mr. Lee is one of five pro-democracy figures, including former lawmakers, who were sentenced to prison time, in connection with anti-government protests that filled the streets in the summer of 2019. Several others were handed suspended sentences. Lee Cheuk-yan is a former member of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong. He was sentenced to 14 months. In January, he was on this program, after dozens of activists were arrested in early morning raids. Here's how he responded when Carol asked if he was worried if he'd be targeted next.

 

LEE CHEUK-YAN: I was already arrested four times, so I'm going to face four trial this year. So I.... I think I will have to go to jail with four trial coming, which I don't think I can get away from it. But there may be other charges. I do not know even. Where speaking to foreign press can be labelled as collusion with foreign power. We do not exactly know.

 

CH: Is it possible that this interview we're doing right now might lead to you being arrested under the National Security Law?

 

LCY: We do not know. You know, because collusion with foreign power. Is this interview part of the collusion? And like what happened to Jimmy Lai, the founder of Apple Daily. He accepted some foreign media interview in Hong Kong. And then, he... he was being charged with collusion with foreign power. You can see the... the threats they are using. And, you know, Hong Kong is more and more like China now with all the China human rights defenders being all harassed or arrested. And now, Hong Kong opposition, anyone that fight for democracy, is being harassed. Similarly to what happened in China, it is now happening in Hong Kong. And... and so the basic law, the promise of autonomy, the Sino-British Joint Declaration all being, you know, thrown in the rubbish can

 

CH: Hong Kong pro-democracy figure, and former lawmaker, Lee Cheuk-yan speaking to Carol in January. Today, he was sentenced to 14 months in prison.

 

[Music: Electronic]

Cargill Essential Worker

Guest: Robin Pryzbyla
 

CH: Amid their pleas for help and better preventive measures, Ontario doctors treating COVID-19 patients have made one thing clear. The demographics of people in hospital are shifting. Away from the elderly and towards essential workers and their families. In some cases, their entire families. It's a reality that has renewed calls for paid sick days, priority access to vaccines, and more business closures. And it comes on the heels of one such closure this week --  of a London, Ontario meat-processing plant.  The Cargill facility has approximately 900 employees, and it shut down for two weeks after confirming 82 active cases. Robin Pryzbyla is an essential worker at another nearby Cargill facility which had its own COVID-19 outbreak earlier this year. We reached her in Guelph, Ontario. 

 

CO: Robin, when you heard about this Cargill plant in London, Ontario, closing, what went through your mind?

 

ROBIN PRYZBYLA: Well, I hope that the... the people that are infected with COVID are going to get well soon. And we've been through it, and I wish them the best.

 

CO: Yeah, so that they... I think 82 workers have been affected by that outbreak in London, Ontario. And so back in you... your plant had the same thing in Guelph December and January, right?

 

RP: Yes. A lot of people were sick during Christmas, the week of Christmas.

 

CO: And so about 180 people were infected in your plant,

 

RP: 182

 

CO: And do you know if many people went to hospital?

 

RP: A few of them were in the hospital having a hard time with breathing.

 

CO: But everyone survived?

 

RP: Everyone survived.

 

CO: Oh, good. What was that time like for you?

 

RP: Well, generally, I think we were all kind of nervous. We were nervous to go back to work because we were hoping that everybody, you know, did their social distancing and didn't gather through Christmas with their families and friends and…

 

CO: And... and but did you get sick yourself?

 

RP: No, no, I haven't. Nobody in my household.

 

CO: And what's it like inside? I mean, just we hear a lot about that the spread is because of just how you have to work. Can you just describe what's it like inside when you're in the plant?

 

RP: It's very hard to social distance. We have a lot of PPE we have to wear on a normal basis. But there was a lot added because of COVID. And it's heavy and awkward and uncomfortable for a lot of people. So I wear a helmet, a face shield, a mask. I wear a mesh apron. I wear a mesh glove. I wear a kevlar glove. I wear steel-toed boots. And we have outer clothes that were provided with. I hope I'm not forgetting anything, but --

 

CO: [chuckling] OK, which is… but you have your... your protective equipment, the gear you got to wear just to be in the plant, right? And then you got to wear all the stuff to protect you from infection?

 

RP: So the extra stuff that we are provided with is a face shield on our helmet. And we wear a mask like on our mouth, like normal. And it's heavy. The shield on the helmet is heavy itself. And we wear also some people have earmuffs. Some people wear earplugs.

 

CO: Oh, my gosh, [laughing] that sounds very difficult.

 

RP: [chuckle] Yeah, I'm a cutter, so we're moving constantly. And there is people box loading, and they're moving around and packaging. They're moving... it's a constant shuffle in there.

 

CO: You work with how many other people?

 

RP: There is a total of 935 union members, I believe, in the plant. And there's 200 non-union.

 

CO: And does that… at any given time, how many of those people are working there?

 

RP: We're all one shift. So --

 

CO: All of them?!

 

RP: Yes, except for sanitation is not part of our union.

 

CO: And so how closely are you working together? Like, what's… what's your... what's the distance you have with people?

 

RP: So the union and Cargill have put what they call plastic curtains dividing us to help prevent the spread of COVID. And we're side by side.

 

CO: You are a union steward in that shop, right?

RP: Correct.

 

CO: What do your fellow employees what are the people saying to you about how they feel about all this?

 

RP: Well, everybody has a little bit more fear during lockdown, but we've been fairly good. After the initial outbreak, we've been fairly good. But there has been fear. Like now, I think the fear of starting again because of the outbreak across Ontario. And now London is shut down. So the fear is coming back, definitely. And it's disappointing. We're hoping that the government would have a vaccine site, and the testing would be nice at the plant.

 

CO: Do you and other people you work with, do they have a choice here? I mean, how important is it that they continue to go to work?

 

RP: Most people need to provide for their families. I definitely need to go to work every day to pay my mortgage. I have children in college and university, so it's very important that I go to work so I can help them.

 

CO: And what about your family? Are they concerned about you going to the plant?

 

RP: I have family members that actually work at my facility and at the sister facility in Guelph as well. And my children are both essential workers as well.

 

CO: OK, so everyone in your family is an essential worker?

 

RP: Exactly, yeah.

 

CO: How is your own health?

 

RP: I don't have good health. I have multiple sclerosis. And I had to get off medication in March. My doctor and I spoke, and we decided that the medication I was taking would put me at great risk. So I am off medication.

 

CO: And so your immune system is... is... your immunocompromised, aren't you?

 

RP: Yes.

 

CO: If you could sit down with Premier Doug Ford, what would you say to him?

 

RP: Whew! I would definitely tell him that it's very important with the amount of people that work in factories that we need the vaccines ASAP. And we need testing sites on the premises ASAP. We got families at home. And a lot of the workers... there's a lot in the plant, and we need help.

 

CO: Well, let's hope that that message somehow gets through to the government of Ontario, and that you get what you need. Robin, I really appreciate you speaking with us.

 

RP: Thank you.

 

CO: Take care of yourself.

 

RP: You, too.

 

CH: Robin Pryzbyla is a worker and union steward at Cargill's Dunlop Drive Plant in Guelph, Ontario. That's where we reached her.

 

[Music: Ambient]

 

Glace Bay Johns

 

CH: When the next provincial election rolls around in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, voters in the riding of Glace Bay-Dominion will have a tough choice to make: vote for John, support John -- or take a chance on John? John White is running for the Progressive Conservatives in the riding. John Morgan for the NDP, and John McCarthy for the Liberals. Now, obviously, the three men have shown the courtesy of having different surnames. But there's another way for voters to keep the Johns straight: they all go by slightly different variations of that first name. Here they are one by one, starting with Liberal candidate John McCarthy, also known as "John John".

 

JOHN MCCARTHY: Yeah, well, it is quite hilarious. My friends get a big kick out of it as well. I think that being John John, as I always joke around with him, that two Johns are better than one.

 

TOM AYERS: That sounds like you've got your campaign slogan all mapped out.

 

JOHN MCCARTHY: Yeah, well, I don't know if you can have a campaign slogan these days, but I'm sure the media or my friends will run with it as best they can.

 

TA: Did you have a nickname growing up, or do you have one?

 

JOHN MCCARTHY: No. John John seemed to do... do the trick, to be honest. Most people don't really know that it is my real name, and they think it is a nickname.

 

TA: But when you say it's... it's not a nickname like your first name and your second name are John?

 

JOHN MCCARTHY: That's correct.

 

AT: There must be a story behind that?

 

JOHN MCCARTHY: Yeah, well, I'm sure there is. But my mother never really ever told me. I know my father's name is John. I don't know if there's another John in the picture or not?

 

TA: So what do you think about running against two other Johns? You're going to have to find a way to... to separate from the pack? 

 

JOHN MORGAN: Yeah, that's right. We're going to have to... I don't know if we're going to have to use some different acronyms or how we're going to distinguish? But, yeah, maybe we get a lot of references to our last names. I'm not sure how we're all going to navigate that? I was known in childhood as Johnny. Johnny White is known as John John kind of upped the ante on that by doubling the stakes. But as the election nears, you'll probably hear all of us stressing to John to try to increase our gravitas. Now John... John McCarthy, I don't know if he was ever called Johnny, but he may he may adopt that as well as time goes on just to make sure we're all in unity on the point. 

 

TA: Look, solidarity with the Johns.

 

JOHN MORGAN: That's right. Stood in solidarity, yes. 

 

TA: Did you have a nickname growing up, or do you have one?

 

JOHN WHITE: [laughing] You're going to love it! So, I'm probably the smallest of the three johns running. Well, my nickname is Bubba.

 

TA: Bubba?

 

JOHN WHITE: [laughing] It is. And it comes from my godson, Ryan, who had an Uncle Johnny, and me as a godfather. And he just nicknamed me Johnny Bubba. And that stuck with me. And he's 30-some years old now.

 

TA: [both laughing] So you could... you could run on Bubba then and separate yourself from the pack. 

 

JOHN WHITE: That's right. Who's the real Bubba? [both laughing]

 

CH: That was Tom Ayers of CBC Sydney talking to the three Johns running in the riding of Glace Bay-Dominion. In the order we heard them, that was John "John John" McCarthy, John "Johnny" Morgan, and John "Johnny" "Bubba" White.

 

[Music: Hip-hop]

Part 3: Manhattan Beach CA Land, Europe's Oldest Map

Manhattan Beach CA Land

Guest: Duane Shepard

CH:  When its original owners first bought Bruce's Beach, there wasn't a whole lot there. Just two empty lots along the water in a community outside Los Angeles. But throughout the early 1900s, Willa and Charles Bruce turned those empty lots into a destination for Black vacationers, entertainers, and residents of Manhattan Beach, California. And then, in 1924, the white-run city took it all away -- expropriating the land in a historic wrong that is only now being made right. 

 

JANICE HAHN: When I realised that the county of Los Angeles now had ownership of the Bruce's original property, I wanted to do what I could to start writing this wrong. I felt there was nothing else to do but to give the property back to the direct descendants of Willa and Charles Bruce!

 

[clapping]

 

CH: That's L.A. County Supervisor Janice Hahn, announcing the city's plan to return Bruce's Beach to its rightful owners. Duane Shepard is the spokesperson for the Bruce family. We reached him in Los Angeles. 

 

CO: Duane, what does it mean to you and other members of the extended Bruce family to hear that announcement?

 

DUANE SHEPARD: Oh, we're very elated. It's been a long time coming. We've been fighting for 96 years to get our land back, and for justice for our family. And so to have someone politically connected has just been a godsend.

 

CO: Can you tell us a bit about Bruce's Beach? It wasn't just a piece of land. It was… there's an incredible story and a history to what your family developed there. Can you tell us a bit about that?

 

DS: Yeah, well, it was purchased by Willa Bruce, who was married to Charles Bruce. He travelled on the... on the railroad as a cook, and she opened up a hot dog and lemonade stand there in 1912. And then they continually expanded it until they had a dance hall and a full restaurant, a bathhouse. So all the socialites in Southern California that were Black, and all of the politicians and then some of the Black gangsters all had social functions at their facility. And they became a very well-to-do business entity. In 1920, the Ku Klux Klan started a campaign to get them out. And so, therefore, there were cross burnings and mattress burnings under porches, tires being slashed, 10-minute parking signs put up there by the Manhattan Beach Police Department. Also, it was cordoned off by the original owner, George Peck, so that the patrons could not get in the water right in front of the property. They had to walk a half-mile north or south in order to get into the water.

 

CO: How long did this go on? How long did Charles and Willa Bruce... they... they were enduring this for some time before they actually lost the land.

 

DS: They were terrorized, and from 1922, 1924, and then thereafter as well. But they finally went to court, tried to get the land back. And they did want to give up the land. There was a court injunction that made them take 14-thousand dollars for land that was worth 70-thousand dollars. And then they didn't get the 14-thousand dollars till three years after that in 1927.

 

CO: So they went through... they endured all of this stuff from the Ku Klux Klan and all the others trying to drive them out. So... but how was their land actually seized? Who took it?

 

DS: It was... it was an illegal municipal policy of the Manhattan Beach City Council to take the land in eminent domain to make it a park. And not only from the Bruces, but other people, the Prioleaus and other Black people that live there. They didn't build the public park... that was in 1927, they didn't make it a public park until 1957. The land sat vacant and unkept for 30 years.

 

CO: What became of Charles and Willa Bruce?

 

DS: Oh, they eventually left destitute and in fear, in terror for their lives. They moved to the east side of Los Angeles. They worked as cooks in other people's diners. And they didn't live very long, five to seven years. Willa Bruce pretty much lost her mind. She died within five years. And Charles Bruce, he died a couple of years after that.

 

CO: That's just awful. And... and so the family itself, did they... they try to get this land back?

 

DS: Yes, they've been fighting for the land since then. Their grandson, Bernard Bruce, picked up the ball and tried to fight for the land, to no avail. They just didn't have the resources that we have now, the social media and the media picking it up. The Manhattan Beach political institution there covered this up quite, quite thoroughly, and nobody knew about it. And that's why even their own white young residents, their youth, are upset about the fact that their parents have hidden... and their grandparents have hidden this... this incident from them.

 

CO: And so the fight was on but yielded nothing. Why do you think that now it's finally being returned to your family?

 

DS: Well... well, the public sentiment that has come along to helping us out. I mean, Manhattan Beach is in the crosshairs of the entire world right now. Nobody thinks that they're doing right by us. They and they're... or they have done right by us. Nobody condones the acts that railroaded our family out of Manhattan Beach. And Manhattan Beach City Council continues to fall over itself, trying to make themselves seem unracist. And they always just showed themselves to be more racist than they were before.

 

CO: But these two politicians are able to do what's right, as they say in the clip at the beginning?

 

DS: Yes, they're able to do it. And everybody is pretty secure that it's going to happen. We have everybody's support, in the legislature, in the state, and around the world, including yourself.

 

CO: This Bruce's Beach today, this piece of land, is estimated to be worth 75-million dollars. What are the plans for that land?

 

DS: Well, it could either be given back to us, or they can pay us for it, or it can be given to us in ownership and then we can lease it back to the county so they can keep their lifeguard training facility there. And we'll charge them a fair market value rent for it for 99 years.

 

CO: And so that's people who want the Bruce's Beach to remain as it is now, that's possibly going to happen?

 

DS: Yes, that's going to happen. But, you know, I mean, when people make remarks like that, then they're making remarks that they don't want African-Americans in that city because only a half per cent of the residents there are African-Americans. When people say they want it to stay like that... and I've heard a lot of immigrants, dark-skinned immigrants, make those statements even at our last press conference that they want to keep it like it is. You know, it sounds like a racist statement to me just in that.

 

CO: What message do you think that this return, this gesture of returning Bruce's Beach to those who own it, does it send a message to other jurisdictions that they're setting on expropriated land that they took from African-Americans that they're going to have to rethink that?

 

DS: Absolutely. I think they all should start revising their municipal budgets because we're going to be a precedent. And when this happens for us, then other people are going to stand up and say, wait a minute, we can fight for this too, and we need to get our lands returned to us as well.

 

CO: Duane, I thank you for speaking with us.

 

DS: And I thank you for having me. 

 

CO: Bye-bye. 

 

DS: Bye-bye.

 

CH: Duane Yellow Feather Shepard is the family spokesperson for descendants of Charles and Willa Bruce, and an elected chief of the Pocasset Wampanoag Tribe. We reached him in Los Angeles. And we've got more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

 

[Music: Folk]

 

BC Residential School Demolished:  

 

CH:  A "dark cloud" is being lifted from Lower Post, BC -- near the Yukon border. An old residential school building in the Indigenous community is going to be demolished, and replaced with a new community centre. Yesterday, the federal and provincial governments announced they were partnering with the Daylu Dena Council to fund the project. For years, people who survived the school were forced to use the space; it was the only suitable site for services like the post office and band council meetings. Harlan Schilling is the deputy chief of the Daylu Dena Council. His mother attended the school. In March of last year, he told "As It Happens" about the impact the building has had on the community -- and why he wanted it gone. 

 

HARLAN SCHILLING: I know the history, and I know, and I work with many people in our community that attended this school. So it's... it's almost personal to me that they've asked to continue on with the work to getting it torn down. And I... I really don't like having to ask it. And we hold meetings here to ask the people of the community to come back into a building where, you know, there's such bad history and bad memories.

 

HELEN MANN: Your mother, as I understand it, actually attended the former school. Is she comfortable going inside?

 

HS: No, along with my mother, like, you know, I believe the school shut down in 1975, so there's still a lot of members in the community, and not just family members of mine, but family members from all community members that attended this school. So... and there, you know, our post office is here. You know, a community building is supposed to be the heart of the community, and it's just not a good place. You know, when you have a building that no one is comfortable of coming into, it's really hard to... to make your community grow.

 

HM: What effect does it have on them going in there?

 

HS Well, I get to, you know, being gone and being able to kind of look into the box from the outside is the social issues, the different forms of abuse that happened here. It definitely has a psychological effect on them. Even so, we have... we have our court system here held in the building every three months. So even when they get into trouble with the legal system, they are forced back into this building to help to have to deal with it.

 

HM: And just to be clear, we're referring to it as The Old Residential School, but that... that's actually the name on the building, right?

 

HS: Yes, it's the name on it... that's what we've changed it to be called, because, you know, that's... that's what it is.

 

HM: And you changed it. Why?

 

HS: I think it was just because that's how the community referred to it. And working with the different government organiZations, they would refer to it as your administration building or, you know, your band office. But over the years, it's just been Band-Aid over Band-Aid, trying to cover up what it truly is. It really is an old school, and it's just office spaces that have been put into it.

 

HS: I think it was just because that's how the community referred to it. And working with the different government organiZations, they would refer to it as your administration building or, you know, your band office. But over the years, it's just been Band-Aid over Band-Aid, trying to cover up what it truly is. It really is an old school, and it's just office spaces that have been put into it.

 

HM: Now, you have raised this issue before. Why do you believe the government has been taking so long on doing something about it?

 

HS: Well, I think part of it is just the different levels of government that we've been able to reach out to. But I'm really hoping that with the NDP and... and the premier's office of BC, they actually came to our community in October. And I think it really emotionally struck them having to come here and having interviewed some of the students, you know, which are now in their 60s, on what this building means to them and what it means that they have to drive by it or even come into it. Considering that it's not only the cast of people that attended this school, this is one of the largest schools in western Canada, so their students as far south as Vancouver and as far north as Yellowknife that I've met that said they attended the school when it was open.

 

CH:  Harlan Schilling, the deputy chief of the Daylu Dena Council speaking with "As It Happens" guest host Helen Mann in March 2020.

 

[Music: Indie rock]

 

Europe's Oldest Map:

Guest: Clement Nicolas

CH: About a century ago, archaeologists in France dug up an ancient stone slab. It was an exciting discovery -- except that they couldn't explain but it was. So, over the years, the excitement ebbed. The etchings went unexplained -- and eventually, the slab itself went missing. Now, a new generation of archaeologists has rediscovered that slab. And now, they think they have some answers. They believe the 4,000-year-old slab is actually a 3D map -- the world's oldest map of Europe. They've just published their findings in the "Bulletin of the French Prehistoric Society". Clement Nicolas co-led the study. He's a researcher at Bournemouth University. We reached him in Brittany, France.

 

CO: Clement, what does it mean for you to have identified what this map is?

 

CLEMENT NICOLAS: It's something fantastic. I didn't expect when I started archaeology to have to deal with such an amazing discovery.

 

CO: But you didn't discover it. It was found years ago, in 1900. So why has it taken so long to figure out what it is?

 

CN: Aha! So it's Paul du Châtellier towards the end of his career. And he digs a lot of burrows. And once in this area of the Black Mountains in Brittany, he excavates this quite large burrow and finds this amazing slab. Since the beginnings of this discovery, he feels that there was something exceptional, but he was not able to explain what it was. He takes the slab to the home in Brittany, and it was forgotten for one century. And in the 20s, his children sold the collection to the National Museum of Archaeology in the Saint Germain Paris region.

 

CO: They sold the collection, his kids did?

 

CN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was stored in the moat of the castle. 

 

CO: Right. 

 

CN: And the memory of the slab was lost. Only when we find this moat that we start to go in all place of the castle to find the slab. And after a long afternoon of search, we ask to a keeper if he has any idea where it could be? And say, oh, yes, might be some stuff there down in the cellar. And we find there.

 

CO: Right, and so when you finally saw it, Clement, maybe just describe what this thing looks like?

 

CN: It's a big schist, a slate slab. There are several signs, and such repeated patterns are drawn together with a wider network of lines. And this relationship between the science gives the feelings that this is a map.

 

CO: And it's a map of what?

 

CN: When we have been able finally to study it, we realized that part of the… part of the slab was hollowed out in a triangular shape. And when we compare it to the local topography, we realize that most probably it was depicting the valley of the river and part of the original line of the Black Mountains. And then we identify further rivers. Doing so, we get quite a big position, hypothesis of that was the slab was representing the river networks. You... we recognized the network of engraved lines to the actual network of rivers. And we get a degree of similarity of 80 per cent. That was very good for such mind map.

 

CO: Wow! And this is 4,000 years old, you believe?

 

CN: Yeah, it's an old excavation, so we cannot date it with modern tools such as radiocarbon dates. But the context has no ambiguity. It's a large stone, which is very typical of the early Bronze Age in the area. And there was a pottery put in the grave, which is as well as typical of a period between 1900 and 1600 B.C.

 

CO: Why do you think that it was made? Why, and who, and for what purpose was this 3D map of the the River Valley made?

 

CN: When you look to ethnographic data, there's no need to have a map to orient, to move in the space. We have all a mind map of the territory in which we move, and of the territories that we manage. But to carve it in a stone slab means that this was probably for political power. There's a need to claim the power on a very specific part of land. That's very…. the territory of a small prince or king of that time.

 

CO: Wow! And so what does it mean to have found it? How important is this as a discovery?

 

CN: This is... the first point is that the cartographic knowledge of prehistoric societies that sometimes we tend to underestimate. And then, locally, it's very interesting because we presumed by the past that the area of Brittany was divided into several small kingdoms during the early Bronze Age. And with the discovered slab, maybe it's the proof of the existence of smaller territories, small kingdoms. But more interestingly, no, we decoded only the river networks carved on slabs, and there several further motifs like cycle squares, cut marks that might represent houses, burroughs and churches that we need to identify now on the ground to better understand the exact meaning and the use of the discovered slab.

 

CO: All right, very interesting. Clement, thank you for speaking with us.

 

CN: Thank you. 

 

CO: Bye.

 

CN: Bye.

 

CH: Clement Nicolas is a researcher at Bournemouth University. And we reached him in Brittany, France.

 

[Music: Folk]

 

Manitoba Cree Author

 

CH: Manitoba author Tasha Spillett-Sumner got some welcome news this week. On Wednesday, her new book, "I Sang You Down From the Stars", made the New York Times Children's Picture books bestsellers list -- hitting the number three spot just days after its release. It's the story of a new mom preparing to welcome her first child into the world with Indigenous traditions -- reflecting the author's Cree background. Here's Tasha Spillet-Sumner reflecting on the news -- and sharing some lines from her best-seller.

 

TASHA SPILLET_SUMNER: I loved you before I met you. Before I held you in my arms, I sang you down from the stars. So I was at home, of course, nursing our daughter, who was 13 months and teething, and quite miserable [chuckling] at the moment. And I got a call from my editor, and she said, you know, I have some really special news to... to share with you. And she said, you're on the New York Times bestsellers list. And she said, for the rest of your life, you will be there. And I'm just... I was astonished. I was actually quite, quite shocked, but so thankful that she called me personally to share the news. As I searched for your eyes in the sky, I saw a shooting star. The first thing I thought of was our daughter, Isabella. And I thought, you know, this is for her. I thought, you know, how cool is it for my daughter to have her mom be a New York Times bestseller? And, you know, I said, that's for you, baby girl. I think it's so important that people have access to Indigenous stories that are told from Indigenous people, from our own voices, that highlight authentic teachings from our experiences. You know, I always say that we're the experts in our own experiences. And own-voice stories, especially in picture books, are so important. As the ice began to melt, we visited the river. When our people travel the waterways, the song of the rushing rapids calls us home. My mom always says that nothing great is accomplished alone. And I think that that's such an important teaching. So although my name is on the best sellers list, like this story, it belongs to a whole community, especially the people who have shared traditional knowledge with me, and who have been... who are a part of my pregnancy and supporting our family through the early part of our... of our parenting. Like this book belongs to our community. All stories belong to our community. And so I'm so thrilled for all of us.

 

CH: Tasha Spillett-Sumner's new bestselling children's book is "I Sang You Down From The Stars". She shared her story with Sam Sampson of CBC Manitoba.

 

[Music: Carnival music]

 

SOD Manatee Birth

 

CH: It's so easy to misunderstand our fellow creatures. And I don't just mean those texts that were intended as a joke but read like something mean because you didn't know what an emoji meant. Sorry, Dave. Anyway: consider a call on Monday to the Mote Marine Laboratory in Sarasota, Florida. The caller was part of a group gathered at one of the local canals. And they were calling out of concern for a manatee that was acting strangely and surrounded with blood. In a video shot by one of the onlookers, you can hear the worry as someone suggests that the animal had been hit by a boat. Then you hear this.

 

MAN: Oh, he's bleeding!

 

WOMAN: OH! 

 

WOMAN #2: Maybe it gave birth?

 

MAN: Oh, it just gave birth!

 

WOMAN#3: DId it just give birth

 

MAN: It just gave birth!

 

[cheers and laughs]

 

WOMAN#4: Cute! Awe, Mama! Oh, my goodness, Mama! She's so proud

 

CH: That was the sound of a group of humans in Sarasota, Florida realizing that the injured manatee they thought they were watching, was actually a healthy animal in process of giving birth. That was our Sound of the Day.