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The AIH Transcript for April 9, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Union duels. Workers at an Amazon warehouse in Alabama vote overwhelmingly not to unionise, but the union says Amazon used underhanded tactics to undermine its efforts.

CH: Loss upon loss. Months after a scallop boat went down off Nova Scotia, the mother of one of the fisherman fights to get compensation for his death after she's told she doesn't qualify because she's not a direct dependent

CO: The power beside the throne. In public, Prince Philip did his duty while sometimes proving a royal pain. But for 73 years, Queen Elizabeth relied on and laughed with the man she described as her strength and stay

CH: The long harm of the law. Republican lawmakers in Arkansas banned gender affirming health care for trans youth. And the doctors who want to provide that care say that is a devastating mistake.

CO: The offbeat Beatts. As the creator of Square Pegs, the late Anne Beatts reinvented the high school sitcom. And as an original writer on Saturday Night Live, she brilliantly sketched sketchy characters in sketch after sketch

CH: And spoiler alert. When they saw the paint cans and brushes, a couple in Seoul assumed it was fine to use them, which is how they accidentally defaced a valuable work of art. As It Happens. The Friday Edition. Radio that guesses the artist was caught with his paints down.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: 'We're not going away,' vows labour leader after Alabama Amazon workers vote down union

Amazon Union Vote

Guest: Stuart Appelbaum

CH: This morning, the final votes were tallied in one of the most high profile union elections in years, and it was not close. Amazon warehouse workers in Bessemer, Alabama, voted against unionising by a wide margin over two to one. But the union claims that Amazon broke the law repeatedly during the union drive and it's taking its fight to the Labour board. Stuart Appelbaum is the president of the Retail Wholesale and Department Store Union. We reached him in Bessemer, Alabama.

CO: Mr. Appelbaum, what are you alleging that Amazon did to thwart your union drive?

STUART APPELBAUM: Amazon conducted a campaign of intimidation and interference. People should not believe that the vote represents any sort of validation of working conditions at Amazon's facilities. Instead, Amazon made people afraid to vote for the union.

CO: In what way did they make people afraid to vote for the union?

SA: Amazon told workers if the union came, the facility might close and they would lose their jobs. They told workers that if the union came in, they would have to pay hundreds of dollars in dues. Whereas Alabama is what we refer to as a right-to-work state where nobody is ever required to pay union dues even if there is a union at their workplace. They installed an illegal dropbox at their property for ballots, which the National Labour Relations Board which conducts the election, explicitly rejected. They directly asked people how they are voting, which is not allowed. It is the greatest campaign of illegal intimidation that we have ever seen in an union election.

CO: Those are the allegations you're going to put before the US Labour Relations Board, is that right?

SA: We are going to be filing objections and unfair labour practise charges with the National Labour Relations Board. And we are confident that a new election will be ordered.

CO: Just one of the things you mentioned there, the illegal dropbox -- is that not a United States Postal Service box that was set up for people to mail in their ballots as it was required?

SA: Actually, it was something different. It was refitted box, not a normal box, but what you would see in apartment buildings that was placed on Amazon property with a tent put around it, telling people to vote against the union and with cameras focussed on it. This is something that was not allowed because it also creates the impression that Amazon is conducting the election when it's not. Also because at Amazon facilities, every motion you make is monitored. People were afraid that if they used that box, which Amazon implied they had to, Amazon would know how they voted.

CO: The company itself, Amazon, issued a thank you letter to its employees for voting against the union and said, and this is a quote, "It's easy to predict the union will say that Amazon won this election because we intimidated employees. But that's not true." It says, "Our employees heard far more anti-Amazon messages from the union, policymakers, and media outlets than they heard from us." Is there any truth to that?

SA: No, there is not. There is not. Amazon knows that it violated the law. Amazon conducted what's referred to as captive audience meetings, where people were required to attend hour long meeting several times a week where they had to listen to anti-union lectures. Amazon brought in about 200 people to walk the floor of the facility, telling workers why they needed to vote against the union in one-on-one conversation. And the union really did not have that sort of access to workers. In fact, we're not allowed anywhere on the company's property. We would talk to workers at the stoplight as they exited the facility. Amazon has the timing the of the stop light changed to limit our ability to even talk with workers

CO: At the same time, does that entirely explain the overwhelming vote? Is it not possible that part of the reason why people voted against the union is that they are paid better than other minimum wage workers in the state, that they are guaranteed, according to Amazon, 15 dollars an hour -- which is twice the rate -- health care from day one, other benefits. Do you think that that is part of the reason why they defeated the union?

SA: No, not at all, because they're paid less than what other warehouse workers receive in Alabama. Amazon pays less than the median wage in Alabama -- in fact, it's lowering the median wage. And Amazon at the end of May last year cut people's pay by two dollars an hour. If Jeff Bezos had given every single one of his employees across the United States a bonus of 105 dollars, he would still be wealthier now than he was at the beginning of the pandemic. So there was no financial need for him to cut workers pay.

CO: You have said elsewhere that this was about more than just the Amazon plant in Bessemer, Alabama. What was at stake in this vote, as far as you're concerned?

SA: Well, I think that we understood that this campaign is really what the future of work is going to look like and how workers are going to be treated. People feel that they're treated as robots being managed by other robots. People talk about how they are surveilled constantly, that the pace of work is available, they are expected to touch a package every eight seconds. People complain that there is not adequate time to even get to the bathroom, so they have to consider whether or not they are going to be able to use the restroom facilities. People talk about being injured at work. There are more instances of calls to public hotlines about co-workers having suicidal tendencies. These are not the conditions that we want to be the conditions for the future of work.

CO: Mr. Appelbaum, I appreciate speaking with you. Obviously, the story is not going away. We'll be following it. And thank you for this today.

SA: Thank you very much.

CH: Stuart Appelbaum is the president of the Retail Wholesale and Department Store Union. He's in Bessemer, Alabama. And you can find more on the story on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Calm Music]

Prince Philip

Guest: Ann MacMillan

CH: As you have no doubt heard by now, Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh, has died. He spent 73 years as the Queen's consort -- her strength and stay, as she famously put it on the occasion of their 50th wedding anniversary. People have used other words to describe him too: strong willed, curmudgeonly, old fashioned, and worse. He was certainly responsible for his fair share of gaffes over the years. But whatever you thought of him, he was always there by the Queen's side for as long as anyone can remember. And that role wasn't always easy for him to fulfil. He talked about that in a 1969 interview with NBC.

PRINCE PHILIP: [SOUNDCLIP: There were a lot of problems. And inevitably it's an awkward situation to be in. There's only one other person really like me, and that's Prince Bernhard of Netherlands. So we occasionally discuss this. He is the only other men of the union so to speak.

BARBARA WALTERS: You tell him your problems and he tells you his?

PRINCE PHILIP: That's right.

BARBARA WALTERS: Do you get used to it?

PRINCE PHILIP: Oh yes. You get used to anything. You'd be surprised.

BARBARA WALTERS: There are those who say that the monarchy is an anachronism, that its day is over, that it serves no purpose other than a kind of tradition and stability. What do you think its main purpose and advantage is in this day for your country?

PRINCE PHILIP: I think it's a perfectly valid system for producing a head of state, as a start. Not only that, it exists and it has been very successful for a thousand years. It has the advantage that it involves the whole family, which means that there are different age groups are part of it. It isn't one single middle aged man, no matter how worthy he may be.]

CH: The late Prince Philip speaking with Barbara Walters in 1969. The prince died today. He was 99 years old. Ann MacMillan is the CBC's former bureau chief in London. That's where we reached her.

CO: Ann we're just hearing a much younger Prince Philip reflecting on the early days of his marriage, describing it as something that you can get used to anything. How did he feel about being married to the Queen?

ANN MACMILLAN: I think he found it very difficult at first. He is known to have said that he called himself a 'bloody amoeba' because he didn't quite know what shape to take. And he was quite resentful of the fact that his children did not inherit his name, Mountbatten, but they had to be called Windsor, although eventually it was joined up -- so they were Mountbatten Windsor. So I think he did have a problem, but he made the best of it.

CO: We heard in that clip with Barbara Walters that he was also talking about whether the monarchy is anachronistic -- and where does he fit into that debate over all these years?

AM: Well, he tried, believe it or not, to modernise the monarchy. He doesn't seem like a particularly modern person nowadays. But he actually was very active in making sure that a documentary was made by the BBC about the monarchy in 1969 -- it was very controversial. And some people felt this was destroying the mystique of the monarchy. But Philip certainly felt that they had to reach out and make people feel that they understood their problems. He also was very influential when the Princess of Wales died, Diana. One of the great images of Prince Philip that I will always carry with me is in 1997 at the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales, Prince Harry was just 12 years old and he was very reluctant to walk in the procession behind her coffin. And it was only when Prince Philip volunteered to walk with him and his brother William, that Harry agreed. Prince Philip wasn't even supposed to be in the procession. But he saw that Harry was suffering and he stepped up. And he did that, I think, for all his children and grandchildren.

CO: You met Prince Philip yourself. You had encounters with him. What was he like in person?

AM: He was quite charming and he could also be quite rude. [Chuckles] I had a funny experience with him the first year after I moved to London in 1976. I was working for CTV at the time and I was at a reception and he suddenly strode straight at me and he looked at me and he said, "What do you do to keep yourself occupied?" [Laughs] And so I told him, I told him about my job. And I thought his eyes might glaze over. But he actually listened because when he arrived in Canada, he got off the plane -- he saw a man wearing a CTV jacket, and he went up to him and said, "Oh," he said "Hello," he said, "I know you're reporter in London." And Carol, I think that is the secret of my professional success because CTV assumed that I spent my entire time hanging out at Buckingham Palace and treated me with great respect from then on.

CO: But also what you're saying is that he was famous or perhaps infamous for some impromptu remarks and some of them quite offensive. And I'm just going to play a bit of tape about that, about this idea of what he thought was funny.

PRINCE PHILIP: [SOUNDCLIP: As a patron of the college, I give myself a very hearty welcome.

PRINCE PHILIP: Ladies and gentlemen, I hope that includes all the other people that you mentioned.

PRINCE PHILIP: This contribution is to be spent on a children's playground in the east end of London -- all I hope, is that the children who play there will have a thought for their sugar daddies here in the Albany Club.

PRINCE PHILIP: All very well to praise the cow, but don't forget the milk maid -- she delivers the goods.]

CO: Okay. [Chuckles] So do you want to help us understand what he thought was funny about those remarks?

AM: Somebody who knows him very well told me that he made these sort of comments because he said he could see that when the Queen moved towards groups of people, they would get terribly tense and nervous. And so he often would try to break the ice by saying something that he considered funny. Not everybody considered it funny, but he tried to lighten the atmosphere. He also, I should say, made the Queen laugh. Again, someone who knows them well, remembers once being at an official event -- and the Queen and Prince Philip got into a car to drive back to Windsor. And this gentleman was in the car behind and he said he could see their heads through the rear window. And he said the Queen was in hysterics. She was laughing the entire journey.

CO: Prince Philip also came to Canada many times, like 70 times. He generated lots of buzz when he did come. So let's have a listen to this clip when he visited Canada in 1954.

VOICE: [SOUNDCLIP: A royal occasion, the tour of the Duke of Edinburgh began July 29. It was to be a man's tour of Canada across the northern barrens and the giant industrial developments of the country. There were a few functions such as this, where women gather to gaze at a real prince.]

CO: Oh dear [laughter] on this man's tour. But he did have an affinity for Canada, didn't he?

AM: He did. He loved nature. He loved Canadians. He found them very straightforward and unassuming. He was sort of a man's man, I have to say. And I think he slightly regretted that his son Charles wasn't a little bit more active -- and that's why he sent him off to a horrible boarding school in Scotland, Gordonstoun, to try to toughen him up. But yeah, he would have been in his element in Canada because all the things he was interested in, including the environment and fishing, and hunting, and talking to people who knew about these things, would have just been second nature to him.

CO: And his death comes at a very difficult time for the Royal family. It's on the heels of the Harry and Meghan interview with Oprah Winfrey -- and not long after news of his son Andrew and his alleged involvement with Jeffrey Epstein. How distressing were these things for him? Was he aware of these? Were these things of importance to him?

AM: I suspect that he wasn't fully informed about what was going on. When he retired from public life in 2017, he chose to go and live in a farmhouse on the Sandringham Royal Estate and it's quite lovely. Because of COVID he was moved back to Windsor, where the Queen was. He must have known about Harry because the Queen had had several conversations with Harry. But I wonder whether they just didn't let him know about Oprah Winfrey. I'd like to think they did not.

CO: But he did spend time with his wife, with the Queen, and perhaps made her laugh.

AM: I hope so. I think he did. And I think that's what she will miss as much as anything else.

CO: Ann I appreciate you telling us about this. Thank you.

AM: You're very welcome.

CH: Ann MacMillan is the CBC's former bureau chief in London, and that's where we reached her. Other Canadians who had the opportunity to get to know Prince Philip over the years include the country's former governor generals. And speaking with the CBC today, Michaelle Jean recalled her own first meeting with the late Duke and the complicated impression he left.

MICHALLE JEAN: [SOUNDCLIP: He and the Queen greeted us. It was our first meeting, so they greeted us, my family in near Balmoral Castle. And it's a tradition, you know, before being sworn in, you know, you have to pay a visit to the Queen. And we were very touched by how attentionate Prince Philip was making sure that there were no overwhelming protocol, making us feel comfortable because it was impressive, I must say. And he paid like very special attention to our daughter, who was only six years old at the time. And we were greeted with so much warmth. And he greeted us in French, which was also very elegant and very respectful of him. What struck me, I must say Matt, however, was something that they felt coming from him, something like a depth of loneliness, the way he spoke about his role, about his life as we were getting to know each other -- he spoke as a man who who felt that he was not being appreciated, you know, in proportion to his contribution. But very affable, very caring, very warm. He made sure that I was aware of his attention to the youth. And what I got from that is from his own experience that was quite challenging -- having a mother suffering from mental illness, a father who wasn't really there. He was a lonely man. And in his position, it wasn't always easy -- always in the shadow, looking at every detail around her majesty the Queen. And you could feel the love as he was doing that.]

CH: Former Governor General Michaelle Jean sharing her impressions of the late Prince Philip with Matt Galloway this morning. A sometimes lonely man, but always a welcoming one -- as Ms. Jean's successor David Johnston experienced. And as he told the CBC, he and his wife Sharon spent much of their time with the Duke laughing

DAVID JOHNSTON: [SOUNDCLIP: At the castle, which is really a big manor house, it's very very informal. We came with every stitch of formal clothes you can imagine, including Sharon with high heels. And the Friday night dinner, the Queen and Sharon were making plans to be in the stables in the morning. The Queen loves horses and so does Sharon. And she suddenly thought, what do I wear? And Prince Philip picked that up and he looked at her feet and the Queen's feet and said, "Your shoes." The Queen went upstairs to her bedroom and came down with a pair of her brogues. And Sharon put them. And the Queen said they fit perfectly. And that's what she wore for the whole weekend. And that was just one story. I'll tell you one more, which will remain with us and Sharon also reminds me. The Queen and Prince Philip each drove their own Land Rover at Balmoral. And on the Saturday night, we were having a barbecue at a shepherd's hut that had been made into a kind of picnic centre for them about five miles away across the highlands, driving on these tiny little paths up on the top of the mountain and looking down over the rocks into a valley below. And they were not wide enough for the cars to pass. You had to find a particular spot where you could pass one another to go on. In any event, going out to the hut was fine. Sharon was driving with Prince Philip in his Land Rover. The Queen and I were driving behind and we chatted away. Coming back it was as black as it could be, and they were up ahead. And as they started out, the car was kind of waving a little bit on the path. And there was laughter -- they were exchanging jokes. And I thought they are going to go over the edge and tumble down a half mile into the valley. And what would the Queen and I do -- to rescue them or if they're killed, what are we going to say? We laughed a lot about it and obviously they had a lot of fun and they both had wonderful, good humour in that particular visit, and the occasions following that when Sharon and the Prince were able to [inaudible] a little bit, as we say, in French.]

CH: Former Governor General David Johnston speaking with CBC Radio about the late Prince Philip. The Queen's longtime consort, died today. He was 99.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Paint

CH: Say it paint so. Not long ago, a couple in South Korea showed some real enthusiasm for art after coming across a graffiti covered wall at an art show in Seoul. Spotting paints and brushes in front of the wall, they accepted the obvious invitation to find their inner artists. And they proceeded to dob, splatter, and rub the paint over a significant chunk of the wall. And then they were gone like a vandal in the wind. But now they are facing the consequences of defacing because those paints and brushes were not an invitation -- they were part of the art. And the art by the American painter JonOne is worth north of 500,00 dollars or you know it was. Soon after making their marks, the pair were arrested. But after explaining their mistake, they were released without charges, though they may well be charged for what could be a very expensive restoration. In the days since, many have argued the untitled work was enriched by their additions. Public sympathy may be on their side. We are all mere mortals, after all, but the artist is not. Despite JonOne's own artistic beginnings as a person who painted on things he wasn't allowed to paint on, he has been unforgiving, proving once and for all splattery will get you nowhere.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Part 2: Scallop Boat Follow

Scallop Boat Follow

Guest: Lori Phillips

CH: Lori Phillips lost a lot when the Nova Scotia scallop boat, the Chief William Saulis went down in December. Her son Aaron was on board and was one of six who died that day. Aaron also lived with her and contributed financially to the family. And now she's learnt that she'll receive no money from the worker's compensation board for her son's death. That's because proceeds only go to Aaron's dependents and he had no children or spouse. We reached Lori Phillips in Annapolis Valley First Nation, Nova Scotia.

CO: Lori, when we talked to you in December you spoke of your grief losing your son, Aaron. Now, I wonder, since then, how much of a struggle has this been financially for you?

LORI PHILLIPS: Financially -- I mean, we're pulling through. I mean, thank God you got insurance on most of your car payments and stuff like that there that you can use to defer payments. But I had to use all my banked time I had saved that work as in statutory holidays, vacation, sick days. And I was able to use four weeks of unemployment at the end before I went back to work. I tried going back to different occasions and it just didn't quite work out, especially when you work in long term care and you're watching people die after going through such a loss. It just hasn't been the same for me.

CO: Oh my gosh. But are you back at work now?

LP: I am. I've been back now for five weeks.

CO: What does it mean for you that you don't have Aaron contributing to your household? How important was his income?

LP: I mean, he helped with the groceries and the power bill and whatnot. But I mean, it's not actually about the money as it is that worker's compensation put in a different price on different people's heads who died in the same way, doing the same job.

CO: All six people who died on that boat, their company was paying for their workman's compensation, right?

LP: Yeah. The company would be paying the premiums for each and every employee.

CO: Which includes death benefits.

LP: It would.

CO: What do they tell you is the reason why your family, you don't qualify to get the death benefits paid to you?

LP: Because my son didn't have no spouse or children. I don't know how they can put a price tag on if you're married or not married. I believe these rules are when they first started, the WCB program and family values were a lot different than what they are today. I think they're outdated.

CO: But your son was living with you and contributing to your household. And so you say that that's the same as anyone else?

LP: That's correct. I mean, even some of these guys may have adult children that, you know, they're still feeling the pain -- if there's a settlement because they died on the job that should be given out, I can understand why they're not paying out the survivors benefits because there's an age requirement. But the death settlement should be across the board to each and every one of them.

CO: What's been the reaction since you have raised this?

LP: There's been different reactions. But then again, people probably aren't as educated because I didn't know that that even existed until it was brought to my attention. Some people think, you know, things need to be overhauled and some people are saying this should be for the survivors, that we're all survivors. We've all had our loss and it all happened on the workplace.

CO: You're looking to get this compensation, but also you want to see these rules changed, right?

LP: Yes. Come with the times. Like not everything is like it was when you first started this agency. Like, times have changed, families have changed. It's pretty much just telling them that a wife in our case, because it could be a husband or wife, has more grief than a mother. And it's just not right.

CO: Has the company that Aaron work for, what has it offered you in the way of compensation or help?

LP: They don't even take our phone calls. I think they contributed to the donation fund that was set up in Yarmouth. I believe that letter came out --- that was in February, but we haven't heard anything from them since. But now that the death certificates and the trustee information has been finalised yesterday, that might change. I'm just not sure what's going on. Like too many unanswered questions. It just seems that anybody and everybody that's investigating this accident is all but going after the company and not trying to figure out why our men are still lying at the bottom of the ocean.

CO: Their bodies were never recovered. And as you mentioned before, you haven't been able to have a tribute any way to bury Aaron. That's an issue still for you, obviously.

LP: Yeah, I still wait from him to walk in the door. Like, most days I'm in denial, so it's hard not having the person's remains at least have somewhere to go to.

CO: And is that not going to happen? Is there any ongoing recovery effort at all?

LP: As far as I know, no. We don't get updates on any of this. Last time I had an update was when the RCMP officers told us that they were stopping the search. And I heard from the Transportation Safety Board saying it has 405 days to make the report. And when I asked them why they're not talking to past crew members, even from the trip before, they don't seem interested. Like I said, everything seems to be about going after the company with the fines and whatnot. And it is to see why my son's laying in the ocean.

CO: When we spoke with you last in December after the ship, the boat, went down. You had a lot of questions. Do you have any better idea as to what happened the day that you lost Aaron?

LP: I have a couple of scenarios. Either they were weight shifted in the wind or that were taken on water because, I mean, the boat is sitting upright in the ocean. So I don't know if they just sank right to the bottom or they were taking in water. I know they had broken down a couple days beforehand and had to go get repairs. But I don't know what those repairs were, I don't know what broke down. I just don't know anything and nobody tells you anything. So we have to wait the 405 days for them to finish the report.

CO: The few details you've been able to get, who was able to contribute, some understanding for you, some answers?

LP: It's more or less other fishermen that know craft and speculate on what happened. Nobody really knows yet.

CO: You still wait to see Aaron walk in the door. I just wonder, how do you remember him?

LP: I remember him as the caring uncle that always was outside under the tree with the kids, with his coffee in his hand and a cigarette [chuckles]. Or he would be out there in the yard cleaned up or just staying busy or working. He was just all about being busy and being with the kids that he loved. And I don't know any other way to put it.

CO: No, you put it well Lori, thank you. And again, as we said in December, we're so sorry for your loss.

LP: Thank you.

CO: Thanks for speaking with us.

LP: No problem.

CH: Lori Phillips lost her son, Aaron, when the Chief William Saulis fishing boat sank off Nova Scotia in December. We reached her in Annapolis Valley First Nation.

[Music: Synth Music]

Drew Barnes

CH: With concerning COVID-19 case numbers and new variants, there are some who believe new public health restrictions in Alberta don't go far enough. And there are others, including more than a dozen United Conservative Party MLAs who think the restrictions are entirely too restrictive. This week, 16 UCP MLAs released a letter criticising the new measures announced by their leader, Jason Kenney. They represent mostly rural areas, and they make up a quarter of Premier Kenney's caucus. Drew Barnes is one of them. This morning, he explained to the CBC why he opposes the restrictions. He said the economic and mental tolls of the pandemic and also said that hospitals in his area are not overwhelmed. Then David Gray asked Mr. Barnes what scientific basis he had for his opposition to Alberta's additional restrictions.

DREW BARNES: [SOUNDCLIP: There's medical doctors on both sides of the issue. And again, that's one of the beauties of the regional approach that my colleagues and I are asking for, you know, in some large parts of Alberta. And, you know, so we have some opportunity for regionalisation. And in some cases, we haven't had the cases that start...

DAVID GRAY: I appreciate that, Mr. Barnes. I just want to be clear -- I want to be clear on the question, is there a doctor in your area? Is there a scientific community in your area that's telling you 'No, your area doesn't need to follow the same restrictions from the rest of the province?'

DREW BARNES: You know, my job is to relate what my constituents are saying. And I've been overwhelmed with support for this. My job is to present to the premier and cabinet, you know, all the different ideas. You know, it's clear that my constituents support the idea of a regional approach.

DAVID GRAY: But you realise that actions have consequences. Because this letter has gone out, because you have sowed seeds of doubt throughout the province about the actions not only of your premier, your cabinet committee, but the chief medical officer of health in Alberta. We are reporting stories today of businesses across the province and certainly here in Calgary who have decided to defy the public health orders of Dr. Deena Hinshaw. You accept that responsibility?

DREW BARNES: Well, I would not accept that responsibility. But I will say this, you know, we're in a free country and I'm grateful that I'm honoured to represent Cypress-Medicine Hat since 2012. I'm one of the original Wildrosers. And in 2012, Albertans were hungry and crying for democratic reform. They wanted people like me that aren't part of government, that aren't part of cabinet to speak up on their behalf. So I'm really...

DAVID GRAY: Mr. Barnes, on that point -- you are part of government, aren't you? You're part of a party that is currently ruling this province. And when you say you don't accept responsibility -- you have signed a letter that has gone public throughout the province and intentionally public making the point that you do not believe these restrictions are necessary. So why wouldn't a business point to you and say, that guy says I can stay open? That is your responsibility, is it not, Mr. Barnes?

DREW BARNES: At the same time, I've asked all businesses and all Albertans to follow the rules as set by the premier and set by the cabinet committee. And I made my commitment to them to continue to advocate for what I believe should be a more regional open approach. Again, David, to handle the mental, the economic, and the spiritual challenges that most days seems just as overwhelming as COVID to our families down here.]

CH: Drew Barnes, the UCP MLA for Cypress-Medicine Hat in Alberta, speaking with CBC Calgary's David Gray this morning.

[Music: Flute Music]

Anne Beatts Obit

Guest: Kim Friedman

CH: When people talk about what made the first few seasons of Saturday Night Live so special, they generally credit the same list of stars: Chevy Chase, Gilda Radner, John Belushi, Dan Aykroyd. But there's one name that doesn't get enough love: Anne Beatts. To be fair, Ms. Beatts was a writer, and though her jokes often took centre stage, she rarely stepped in front of the camera except for the odd commercial.

VOICE 1: [SOUNDCLIP: Meet Ellen Sherman, Cleveland housewife and mother.

VOICE 2: Hi, I'm a nuclear physicist and commissioner of Consumer Affairs. In my spare time, I do needlepoint, weave, take riding lessons, and brush up on my knowledge of current events. Thursday is the day I spend at the day care centre. And then there's dad. But I still have time to do all my own baking and practice my back hand and even though I'm home 24 hours a day as...

VOICE 1: How does Ellen Sherman do it all? She's smart. She takes Speed. Yes, Speed.]

CH: That were Anne Beatts revealing the secret to every working housewife's success in the 70s: Speed. The founding SNL writer and occasional actor, died on Wednesday. She was 74. In addition to writing for SNL, Ms. Beatts created and produced the 80s high school sitcom Square Pegs. Kim Friedman directed the short lived but influential series, and we reached her in New Jersey.

CO: Kim, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

KIM FRIEDMAN: Oh thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was quite shocking and quite a surprise

CO: Because she's only 74.

KF: Yeah.

CO: We just played that clip of one of her sketches from Saturday Night Live that she wrote and performed. What does that tell us about Anne Beatts?

KF: Well, I can explain something -- Anne was I would say one of the bravest people I knew. She didn't seem to be scared of anything. And the best thing for her because she was a comedian and a writer, a comedy writer, is she wasn't scared to make a fool of herself. So she would go all the way with a moment, with a monologue, with everything. And I loved her approach, which was just throw it all at the wall. If it works, we'll keep it. If it doesn't work, we won't keep it. And what's interesting is, of course, I was watching Saturday Night Live before I knew Anne. And what's so interesting is once I did get to meet her and we were working together, I realised that she had written some of my favourite sketches on Saturday Night Live.

CO: And as you say that a lot of times we wouldn't have known it was her writing it. But I mean, there's a very funny skit about the nerds -- Gilda Radner and Bill Murray.

KF: Oh the nerd. That was Lisa Loopner, right?

CO: Yes, Lisa Loopner and Todd DiLaMuca.

KF: That's one of my absolute favourite sketches. And I didn't know her at the time. So when I didn't get to meet her and I said, "You wrote Lisa Loopner!" I was just all over it.

CO: You didn't just get to meet her. You got to work with her on that groundbreaking series, Square Pegs. Can you tell us about?

KF: Yes. It's a miracle that I got to work on it. First of all, there were very few women directors at that point, but there were certainly very few women directors getting pilots. So it's amazing to me because I'm sure she had to fight for me -- I'm sure. I'm sure they didn't say, "Oh yes, let's get Kim Friedman." No, no, no. She had to fight to get a woman to do a pilot because there's so much money invested in a pilot and so much time. The writing was incredible. She was so selective on who she chose to write that show. She didn't take the usual suspects.

CO: What was so interesting about Square Pegs was that it was about girls and teenage angst from a girl point of view. So how much of it do you think was autobiographical on the part of Anne Beatts?

KF: I think it was very autobiographical because to know Anne Beatts -- she was a nerd. I mean, I didn't know her in high school and college, but she had to be a nerd. She had to be not with the cool group. There was no way she would be with the cool group. And yet she knew she was cool. And you know what's interesting? I don't think any of us were the cool people. I think all the people that worked on that show, the writers, and the production people, myself, I didn't see any cool people around there. I didn't see any people who were like the jocks in high school.

CO: She in fact said -- she told The New York Times in 1983 about that, she said that the girls, the people, the teenagers who suffered in high school became very happy later because most of the bright, successful, happy people I know were pretty miserable in high school. Does that sum up what you knew about her?

KF: Yes. And I think, by the way, she assembled a lot of us nerds to do the show.

CO: And Square Pegs, it was groundbreaking and a lot of the later series of movies about teenage angst in high school really started with Square Pegs, didn't they?

KF: Absolutely. They all were prototypes of those things. And it was interesting because afterwards it is really kind of set a tone. But I think a lot of it you see in the Loopner sketches and Saturday Night Live. I mean, everyone loved Lisa Loopner, everyone loved Gilda, everyone loves Bill Murray. And so I think she started talking about her life right then and there. One thing that makes me sad about Anne -- and very few things make me sad because she was such a lively and wonderful presence -- is that she didn't do more shows and more series. And I think some of that has to do with the fact that she was a woman because it was rare in those days. And I think the world sort of wasn't ready yet as they were later on for Tina Fey. And I think that the other part was that it wasn't only a hard time for women writers and directors, but she would take no [inaudible]. I was in network meetings with her and they would say "No, Anne you can't do that scene," and she would say, "Oh, I have to do the scene. We have to do it." She would fight for everything that she wanted and stuff. And I think at that point, people maybe weren't ready for her.

CO: And we're talking about the 70s and 80s and a time when a lot of women have said that the sexism in comedy was just quite unbelievable. And one remark -- she worked at National Lampoon also at Saturday Night Live, but there's a story of John Belushi insisting that Lorne Michaels fire female writers. So how did she survive and thrive in that atmosphere?

KF: She survived because Anne put blinders on. She just put her blinders on and she'd go into network meetings and they say, "Hey, you can't do that." And she'd say, "Oh I'm doing it." And they would have, you know, huge fights -- you don't talk to the vice president of CBS like that. Anne didn't care. If she believed in an idea or a joke even, a word, she would fight for it as a director, you know, but she survived because she believed in what she was writing.

CO: Kim, it's great to hear about your friend. And I'm sorry again for your loss and for all of us, because she had more to say. But thanks for speaking with us.

KF: Oh great. Thank you for having me.

CH: Kim Friedman was a friend and collaborator of Anne Beatts. We reached her in New Jersey. The founding Saturday Night Live writer and creator of the 80s sitcom Square Pegs died on Wednesday. She was 74.

[Music: Happy Music]

Good Neighbour Project

CH: Sometimes all it takes is one small good deed to create a big movement. Last spring, Hana Fatima saw an elderly woman struggling at the grocery store, so she helped the woman take her groceries to her car. And when she got home, nine year old Hana and her father, Tariq Syed, took that gesture further, offering to pick up essentials for elderly neighbours. Mr. Syed created a Facebook group, and soon there were hundreds of volunteers who wanted to follow Hana's lead. A year later, the Good Neighbour Project coordinates 6000 volunteers who speak over 30 languages, all just wanting to help out. Here's Hana speaking with the CBC this week.

HANA FATIMA: [SOUNDCLIP: It made me think of my grandparents and they were vulnerable. And when I help them, they got really happy for me.

CHRIS GLOVER: You left that grocery store trip. You had plans. What did you want to do?

HANA FATIMA: I wanted to tell my family. And when I told them I remember, I also remember two other people on my street and when I helped them, they were also really happy. And after that, my dad, he told his friend and they told their friends how we were helping out our neighbours and they started doing it.

CHRIS GLOVER: At first, you started it just for yourself, delivering to a couple people kind of on the street, right?

HANA FATIMA: Yes.

CHRIS GLOVER: But then how big has just gotten?

HANA FATIMA: My dad told me that there's over 6000 volunteers and we have done over 9000 deliveries now, some people delivered for over 200 times. I feel really happy being able to help people, not only me, but all the volunteers. And without them, the project wouldn't be where it is now.

CHRIS GLOVER: Are there any stories that have kind of stuck out in your mind, any seniors that you've helped?

HANA FATIMA: Some volunteers when they delivered, the seniors got really emotional that there is somebody for them during this pandemic and during this lockdown. And when they can't go outside, they get emotional and some people start crying.

CHRIS GLOVER: What do you think it shows that all of these people were saying, "Hey, you know what, Hanah, I want to help you and I want to be a part of this too," -- what does that show?

HANA FATIMA: It shows that people have that wanting in their heart to go and do something. Nowadays it's hard but before it wouldn't have been that hard. We could have just gone to the store, picked up the groceries and sent it to them. But now it's really hard. I just want to tell everybody out there, whenever you get a chance to be helpful and kind, you just go and do it without thinking about it. You see an opportunity, someone needs help, just go and do it. You don't need to think about it.]

CH: Nine year old Hana Fatima speaking to CBC Toronto's Chris Glover this week about her Good Neighbour Project.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Gladys Radek

CH: A remote road in northern B.C. known as the Highway of Tears is finally getting a much needed upgrade: cell service. For years, advocates for missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls have been calling for cell towers along the section of Highway 16 after decades during which women have disappeared. And yesterday, the provincial and federal governments finally promised to get it done. 12 towers are expected to be completed by late next year along two highways between Smithers and Prince Rupert. Gladys Radek's niece, Tamara Chipman, was last seen along Highway 16 in 2005. Here's Ms. Radek speaking to CBC Kelowna about the news.

GLADYS RADEK: [SOUNDCLIP: I'm first of all, elated. I think that we put this in our first set of recommendations back in 2006 at the Highway of Tears symposium that we had in March 2006. And that was one of the recommendations that we basically waited 15 years for this

SARAH PENTON: Tell me a little bit more about the difference you think it'll make.

GLADYS RADEK: Well, I do know for a fact because I do travel a lot. And as you know, even today, my cell phone is from northern BC and it's hard to make that connection. And so that's just one example. I think that if our young women and girls are getting cell phones, once they reach a certain area, they get dead zones. And if they're in trouble in a dead zone, well, then nobody's going to know anything until after the fact.

SARAH PENTON: I mean, I hear your gratitude, but I'm wondering how you're feeling that it took 15 years for this to happen.

GLADYS RADEK: Well, that doesn't surprise me, because usually all of our recommendations, like even from the Highway of Tears initiative to the Wally Oppal report and then to the national enquiry, the 231 calls to justice, everything seems to stop at the government's door. And somebody opened that door and opened the floodgates. It's time that the government actually opened the doors to all of those recommendations because our families that are losing our loved ones, know what's needed up in those territories, especially in the north, especially on the Highway of Tears. And all they have to do is, you know, open the doors to those recommendations and implement them because they're all common sense.

SARAH PENTON: Can you tell me more about what else you think that needs to be done to make people safer?

GLADYS RADEK: Well, right now we've got some serious opioid problems. We've got a lot of human trafficking that's happening. And we need safe places for women and girls to go to. There's some serious racism that's happening, particularly in BC, and we need to have those issues, you know, dealt with immediately before it does get out of hand.'

CH: That was Gladys Radek speaking to Sarah Penton on Radio West.

[Music: Calm Music]

Annalee Coakley

CH: Meatpacking workers have been amongst those hardest hit by the pandemic and because they're essential and might not be able to get time off, they also might struggle to make the trip to get a vaccine. So in Calgary, the vaccines will be making the trip to the plant. This morning, Dr. Annalee Coakley described how she's helping to organise a vaccination clinic at the Cargill meatpacking plant.

ANNALEE COAKLEY: [SOUNDCLIP: It's more than just a clinic. So there is a first stage which is preparing the workers for the vaccine. So we're working very closely with our community partners such as the Calgary Catholic Immigration Society, Action Dignity, and the Alberta International Medical Graduate Association. And they're providing the same language, first language information to the workers, videos, to provide the necessary information and education so that workers can make an educated choice. These workplaces are very high risk. And then with the variants becoming more dominant, where they're more transmissible, potentially more deadly in younger populations, I think it's imperative to protect these high risk groups. And not only are they high risk, but they face multiple barriers. So the workers in meat packing plants tend to be newcomers, whether it be immigrants or people who've come to Canada as refugees or temporary foreign workers. And so often they face a number of barriers when accessing health services. So language barrier, of course, transportation barriers, lower levels of digital literacy. The purpose of this vaccine program at Cargill at the worksite is to help people overcome all of those barriers.

CH: That was Calgary Dr. Annalee Coakley speaking with the CBC's Calgary Eyeopener. She's helping organise a vaccine clinic at the Cargill meatpacking plant. But those vaccinations likely won't start for another two weeks.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Part 3: These French islands off Newfoundland want to join the Atlantic Bubble

Arkansas Anti-Trans Law

Guest: Chad Rodgers

CH: Transgender kids living in Arkansas are angry, sad, and frightened. On Tuesday, the state's General Assembly overrode the governor's veto and passed a law banning gender affirming treatment for teenagers under 18. Republican lawmakers there say that will save young Americans from making what they describe as irrational decisions to change their gender. But paediatricians in Arkansas are saying the exact opposite. They're predicting suicide rates and depression will double in the trans community. Dr. Chad Rodgers is one of the paediatricians voicing opposition. And we reached him in Little Rock, Arkansas.

CO: Dr. Rodgers, what concerns are you hearing from your own patients about this new law?

CHAD RODGERS: I'm hearing a lot of concern from patients. They're just very distressed and they're very disheartened. There's also a lot of fear, not just about being able to get their care, but also just fear in general of being trans in the state of Arkansas. I have even heard from my colleagues, kids expressing a lot of depression and anxiety related to the passage of this bill. And none of my patients that I've heard from have had any suicidal thoughts, but I have heard from some colleagues of kids that attempted suicide in relation to the signing of the bill

CO: The name of the bill itself speaks to what the thinking is behind. It's called the Arkansas Save Adolescents from Experimentation Act or SAFE in short. So do you see your work with young people as an experiment?

CR: No, I don't. And in fact, I served on the Committee for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender Health and Wellness through the Academy of Paediatrics. And we looked at a lot of the research and we know there's a lot of good evidence base for gender affirming care. This isn't an experimentation. This has been researched and looked at for many decades now, actually, and there's good research that supports that gender affirming care is the best care for these kids.

CO: Numbers of states in the US are passing different kinds of legislation to limit the ability for transgendered people to find their identities, youth in this case. But Arkansas is going further than others. What will this law actually limit? What kind of work will it limit you from doing?

CR: Yeah, so this is the first in the States and it is a very broad bill, it is very broadly written. So when I talk about gender affirming care, you know, the first step with these kids is talking about what gender they identify with, what pronouns they would like to use, how they would like to dress that makes them feel better and makes them feel more like the gender that they didn't vibe with. So the bill is so broad that even speaking about things like that would be gender affirming care and could be seen as a violation of this law. Then a part, of course, the biggest concern is referral to appropriate services for these kids could be taken away for kids who are kind of moving to the stage where they want to look, even just for basic therapy related to their being transgender for maybe depression or anxiety, but also for puberty blockers, hormones, while they are in need to kind of help postpone puberty and help prevent secondary sexual characteristics. So this bill would make it even illegal for me to refer a child to clinically appropriate services for transgender kids.

CO: What would be the consequences for you if you did try and give any kind of gender affirming care?

CR: At this point, you would be reported to the licencing board. So for me, that would be the medical board. For psychologists, providing care would be referred to their licencing board -- even possible suspension of licence.

CO: Wow. And so huge consequences for you. What are the consequences for these young people whose lives are going to be affected, as you describe it? How much more difficult will it be for them?

CR: Tremendous. You know, life is already pretty difficult for kids in general, and then being trans is even more difficult. So I think it would really prevent them from getting the care that they need. And so not all transgender kids have depression and anxiety related specifically, or they may have mild symptoms, but they still need to have appropriate services to be referred to. And to not to be able to refer them would put them at increase for risk, for worsened depression, suicide, drug use, and puts them at risk for risk taking behaviour and violence.

CO: The governor of Arkansas seems to understand -- he described the bill as overbroad, extreme, doesn't grandfather in the young people who are already in treatment and care, and he vetoed it. So he gets it. And then of course, there was an override on that veto. Why do you think that the state legislators don't get it?

CR: Well, you know, he did listen very well and he listened to the medical professionals and he felt like this was an overreach. I do think there's a political element here, you know, this is a very vulnerable population, things are very polarised here in this part of the country politically, even with their own party, and they've kind of run out of issues to talk about and to work on. And so I think this is one of the issues that they have sort of taken to address. I think a lot of this is just misunderstanding and not understanding what it means to be trans or even what the care is, that it's not just surgery. A kid does not decide that they're trans and get surgery the next day. This is a process. It's a journey. And they don't want to know. And I think for some of them, they probably just don't care.

CO: We spoke with a family in Alabama, a mother and son. He's still in the middle of his transition. They were both talking about the support he had from his family and from his mom. What is it like for the young people who don't have that? What support do they have at this point, given this law and the difficulty of getting anyone even to talk to?

CR: No, I think it really kind of creates a vacuum for support if people follow the law. It's so important for these kids to feel supported and nurtured. Sometimes they're not accepted by their families and a lot of these kids end up homeless and on the streets or they put themselves in bad situations, sex trafficking and other acts of violence.

CO: And for the young people who are already on this journey, where can they go to continue getting help for it?

CR: Yeah, when I first started practising, we didn't have a centre of excellence here in Arkansas. So I was sending people to Dallas, Texas, which is about five hours away. And so even I think Texas is looking at some trans gender bans. So it becomes very concerning, especially for families that don't have a lot of means to get care for their kids that's appropriate. A lot of kids won't seek care. And I think you're going to see a long term impact on their emotional and physical health.

CO: Dr. Rodgers, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

CR: Thank you Carol. It was a pleasure.

CH: Dr. Chad Rodgers is a paediatrician at the Little Rock Paediatric Clinic. We reached him in Little Rock, Arkansas.

[Music: Calm Music]

Gabrielle Venne

CH: In a few weeks, veterinary students at College Boreal in Sudbury, Ontario, will be wrapping up their courses. But they're not necessarily optimistic about the future. Their program's accreditation was recently stripped by the Ontario Association of Veterinary Technicians, meaning students won't be able to take the national competency exam, which is not mandatory, but which, according to veterinary student Gabrielle Venne, is a key requirement for most employers. Here's Ms. Venne speaking to the CBC about the impact that will have on students looking for employment.

GABRIELLE VENNE: [SOUNDCLIP: We learnt through an email about two weeks ago on March 26 saying we had lost the accreditation by the OAVT. It was very little information. They couldn't tell us much of anything except the OAVT had removed it all of a sudden. It was just shocking, really. Accreditation means when you graduate from accredited college, you're eligible to write the VTNE, which is the Veterinary Technician National Exam. And a lot of clinics in northern Ontario, or just really all in Ontario, require that veterinary technicians are registered. And so this already with COVID is making things hard for us to get a job in clinics. And now that we might not be eligible to write the VTNE, that really just cuts down our chances by a lot. So now that we might not have a chance to do that, that's two years of us working so hard in this program go to waste. It's really just plummeted our motivation, our hope to keep going because we keep going but for what? I mean, we've been doing this for almost two years, and at the end, we might not even be able to graduate from an accredited program. It's just very demotivating. I would like at the very least for us, the second years at the very least, to get a chance to write the VTNE to maybe expand the accreditation for a little while, only for us to write our VTNE, because most of my class, I would say at least 80 percent, we're planning on writing the VTNE. That's why they came to Boreal. We want to write it. And we came here because it was an accredited program. And the OAVT just suddenly took it away. And the fact that we just so happen to be the only French program in Ontario, I mean, that really sucks. That's a really big blow. If you're graduating from high school and you're looking to perhaps be an RVT, you're not going to be looking at College Boreal anymore, which really sucks because it's a great school and it's a great program. But because of the problem with the OAVT and just snapping away the accreditation, that really removes a lot of stimulus for kids to want to come here. I mean, the first years they won't be graduating from an accredited program either if we don't get it back.]

CH: That was Gabrielle Venne speaking to Markus Schwabe, host of Morning North.

[Music: String Music]

Ideas Promo: Joseph Heath

CH: On Ideas tonight, a documentary series about the common good continues. Canadian philosopher Joseph Heath offers one answer to the question of why humans can't work together as a species, even to save our own habitat.

JOSEPH HEATH: [SOUNDCLIP: Climate change is occurring not because people are stupid, but because they're just self-interested, which is that I derive tangible benefits from my consumption of fossil fuel and I'm going to be dead before the consequences are felt. And even then, what I do makes no difference. My own personal consumption makes no difference even to my grandchildren's lives. So I freeride. But from the kind of Hobbesian view, the default with respect to a global problem like climate change is that it doesn't get fixed and we fail. Why? Because, like, why would it get fixed? It's like, you know, why didn't war just go away when people realise that, oh, my God, people get killed in war -- we should just stop doing it? And yet war continues, right. So humans fail to cooperate all the time. Humans have never succeeded in cooperating at a global scale with a problem as wide ranging as climate change.]

CH: Philosopher Joseph Heath talking about the common good and the problem of scale tonight on Ideas with Nahlah Ayed after As It Happens.

[Music: Brass Music]

Saint-Pierre et Miquelon

Guest: Frederic Dotte

CH: The Atlantic bubble is the envy of Canada, and now it appears France. More specifically the French territory of Saint Pierre and Miquelon. The islands sit just 25 kilometres off the coast of Newfoundland. And before the pandemic, there was a lot of ferry traffic between the two. But for more than a year, the French islands have been isolated and now the territory is making the case to be included in the special travel restricted area between New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador. That so-called bubble is set to open back up on April 19th. Frederic Dotte is a reporter for France 24 for Saint Pierre and Miquelon. We reached him on Saint Pierre.

CO: Frederic, first of all, give us the pitch. Why should Saint Pierre and Miquelon be included in the Atlantic bubble?

FREDERIC DOTTE: First, probably because since January, travelling from some here is almost forbidden for France. Also because, you know, in April, probably like you in Ontario, a lot of people from Saint Pierre go on some vacations, but nobody go this time just because we cannot. So we need right now to go out. The islands are very very small. You know, here we are, I think 242 square kilometres. And it's been months that we didn't go away. So probably for our mental health, it's necessary now that we can go outside the islands.

CO: Are you COVID free in Saint Pierre?

FD: Yeah, we are. We had eight cases, I think, but we are COVID free and we live normally right now without the masks and the restaurants are opened and the bars too, and we can go to sports. And that's okay to live here. But we need to go out now. [Chuckles]

CO: [Chuckles] I get it. But how could this be arranged? Because Saint Pierre and Miquelon, that's part of France, right? And so who do you have to appeal to in order to make this work?

FD: The French government in Paris. Like people from Canada have to ask to Justin Trudeau in Ottawa, that's the point. We cannot deal from Saint Pierre to Toronto or with our close neighbours in Newfoundland in St. John's. We have to deal with diplomacy in between France and Canada. And that's the problem probably for us to be included in the Atlantic bubble.

CO: But you are getting a sympathetic response from Newfoundland, right? The premier, Andrew Furey, is open to this idea of Saint Pierre being part of the Atlantic bubble, is that right?

FD: Yes, true. He had a press meeting, I think, two days ago. But he said also that security has to be guaranteed. The problem is that we have one flight from Montreal every week and we will have on the summer one flight from Paris, a direct fly every week too. What do we do with the people coming from Montreal and from Paris? Do we have to make them have a two weeks quarantine?Those two weeks of quarantine is not the process in France and in Europe. Our process is a one week quarantine with two PCR tests. So how can we deal with this difference?

CO: And so do you have an answer to that about the quarantine differences?

FD: Probably it's a diplomatic point in between France and Canada. And also we have to see the situation of the pandemic. You know, we are on our way to be totally vaccinated here in Saint Pierre. At the end of May, we will be totally vaccinated with our two injections. So it's got to be tough to make people respect a two week quarantine till like September -- probably very tough

CO: Right. Now for people who don't know Saint Pierre and Miquelon -- it's a French territory, but your very close neighbour is Newfoundland. And even though you're in different countries, you speak different languages, there's a lot of connection, right? So how intertwined are Newfoundland and Saint Pierre?

FD: Yeah, we have families in Newfoundland. Some people I think about 200 families have cabins there on the Burin Peninsula. Burin Peninsula is just 20 kilometres away from us. Those people, they haven't been able to go and to run their houses since the beginning of the pandemic. And also we go shopping there. We go to Morristown, which is the biggest city for us. And when we have a flight, we go also to St. John's to make big shopping, so that's something we cannot do right now.

CO: And is the ferry still running? That's the service between Saint Pierre and Newfoundland.

FD: No, it cannot go commercially because Canada doesn't permit it. We cannot come in Canada. It's not permitted.

CO: So now it seems like a logical thing to do and it's necessary because you're going stir crazy in Saint Pierre. But how likely is it, do you think, that this is going to happen?

FD: If you ask me personally, I'm not sure it will appear, you know, because if we talked with Newfoundland or even with the four provinces, the Atlantic provinces, probably we would have a result. But with France and Canada, it's another story. I'm not sure we can achieve this.

CO: Well, it's also probably not a priority in the midst of all this. And so you're probably not high on the list of things that internationally need to be resolved, I guess.

FD: Yeah. Yeah, we are 6000 people. What are 6000 people, 6000 French people, for your federal government? [Chuckles]

CO: Well Frederic I hope it gets worked out. It sounds like you guys need to get out and get to your cabins and go shopping and everything else. And it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

FD: Thank you Carol.

CH: Frederic Dotte is a reporter for France 24. We reached him on Saint Pierre. And we have more on the story on our webpage: cbc.ca/aih.

April 9, 2021 Episode Transcript

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