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The AIH Transcript for January 29, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: The dead of winter. The decade since nine hikers died mysteriously in Russia. Everything from military testing to an angry yeti has been blamed. But our guest believes he's found the answer, thanks in part to Disney's "Frozen."

CH: No more mistaken identity. Trans and non binary people in Quebec celebrate after a judge issues a historic decision telling the province to rewrite parts of its civil code to be appropriately inclusive.

CO: Ain't that a crying shaman? And when he stormed the US Capitol, the guy in fur and horns with the painted face looked pretty committed. But now his lawyer tells us the so-called QAnon Shaman chairman wants to testify against Donald Trump.

CH: Back in circulation. Richi Gill was left paralysed after an accident during a family vacation. Now the Calgary doctors blood pressure is being regulated by an innovative device described as a pacemaker for the spine.

CO: Lots more Mr. Mice guys. After the catastrophic eruption of Mount Pinatubo 30 years ago, a species of mouse was thought to be extinct. But new research reveals the place is positively crawling with them.

CH: And scorched mouth policy. He didn't pick any packs, but Mike Jack did pop a pile of powerful peppers. And now he has a Guinness record for speed eating the infernal nightmare known as the Carolina Reaper. As It Happens. The Friday Edition. Radio that would frankly be worried about the reapercussions.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Capitol Hill rioter 'QAnon Shaman' wants to testify against Trump, says lawyer

Dyatlov Pass Death Study

Guest: Johan Gaume

CH: It's one of the eeriest mysteries of the Soviet era, and after decades of explanations ranging from the sober minded to the sinister, it may just have been solved through science. In 1959, nine Russian students died on a hiking trip in the Ural Mountains. Over the years, just how they died has been discussed, dissected, and debated. The story spawned all kinds of conspiracy theories, the most far fetched of which involved a yeti or an alien attack. But given the strangeness of the circumstances, all theories seemed at least slightly plausible. But a newly released Swiss study has the most likely answer. Johan Gaume is one of the scientists behind that study. We reached him in France.

CO: Johan, as you know, there are many theories, many ideas about what killed these hikers. But in your view, how is it most likely that they died?

JOHAN GAUME: So in our paper, the hypothesis is that an avalanche released in the middle of the night above the tents due to different factors, and this urged the hikers to to leave the tent in a hurry. So they had to cut the tent from the inside and then they went down to the forest.

CO: And one of the things is that they weren't wearing the right clothing or they didn't have the gear with them and they had to leave quickly then?

JG: Yeah, exactly. They were sleeping, so they were probably in their sleeping bag -- without their hiking clothes.

CO: But you know that this theory of the avalanche being the reason for it -- this has been proposed before and rejected. So why was it rejected before and now it seems more plausible?

JG: Exactly It was rejected based on four main counter arguments. Basically, the first argument is that the slope angle, the average slope there, was two miles. That was the first argument. The second one is that it was uncertain what was the trigger mechanism because there was no snowfall that night. That's the second counterargument. The third argument is about the type of injuries which were not typical of avalanche victims. And then the fourth one is there were no signs of an avalanche 26 days after the incident when the rescue team arrived on site.

CO: Those are pretty strong arguments of why it wasn't an avalanche, but you're convinced it was?

JG: So, yeah, that's the objective of our paper, is to go through each of these arguments and basically report them all using solid physical models and experimental evidence.

CO: Okay, before we get to the models you used, because it was quite unusual methodologies and research you did. But just on this issue of that the injuries don't appear to have been those of an avalanche. We spoke with the author of the book about the Dyatlov Pass deaths years ago back in 2019, and he said, as you've heard before, that the hikers, not only were they found barefoot, but they had very unusual injuries. One was missing a tongue. I know they were missing eyeballs. Their skin was a weird colour. One of them even seemed to have had some sort of high level of radiation. All of these have led to the many theories as to what strange things might have happened to them. How did you discount those possibilities?

JG: It's feasible to explain them individually, but when you pile them up, it leads to something that sounds really extraordinary. But like the missing eyeball and the missing tongue, they were found one month later. And it's the nature and there are wild animals there. We can find some explanations for that. But basically, I want to say that we did not address these things in our paper. And what we really focussed on is really the plausibility of the avalanche.

CO: Because you've mentioned the other things that the slope was too slight to have had an avalanche on it -- it was not typical of where you have avalanches there. There was nothing to trigger it. They had been camped for some time, for some hours. There was no sign of an avalanche when they finally went there. So what did you do to find that it was an avalanche?

JG: So for the first point about slope angle, we looked at the local topography and even though the average slope angle of the snow surface was around 22 degrees and looked two miles actually the slope had a lot of irregularities -- it was highly variable and it was made of small steps. And they basically put the tents below one of these steps. And locally, according to a lot of schematics from the investigation, the slope angle was looking steeper right above the tent and probably closer to 28-30 degrees. But even if it's below 30 degrees, it's fine because, you know, this rule that we tell to the general public, this is not such a sharp rule in general. This critical angle for an avalanche, it's basically a critical angle for a material to slide on top of another one. And this depends on the type of material. And in snow, it depends on snow type. So when we put all this data together, it may be possible that actually an avalanche may have slide there, given experimental data.

CO: Right. And one of the things you did, which is highly unusual, is that you looked at the Disney movie "Frozen" and actually went to learn about how they animated that. Tell us about the role that Disney played in your research.

JG: Well, I'm a Disney fan, and when I saw how realistic the snow was looking in the Disney movie, I thought that we could use some of their expertise in mathematics and our expertise in physics to explore the effects they have in true physics. And so we developed a physically based model using their numerics and we developed an avalanche model. And this model has been validated using experimental data three years ago. And I used this model to assess the injuries on the victims.

CO: So the avalanche in Frozen -- is that pretty similar to what would have happened?

JG: They didn't really have an avalanche in the movie Frozen. They mostly had some snow simulation, character snow interaction simulation. But yeah, no no -- their model is extremely realistic. And we brought new physics in there to make it even more realistic and validate it using experimental data.

CO: So you didn't include a talking snowman, though?

JG: No. I mean, in my simulations, if you look online, we use the snowman as a trigger.

CO: [Laughter] Okay. So on the subject of talking snowman and other strange things, do you think that your science may finally put to rest all of these crazy theories that there were aliens or Yeti or in some weird experiment that was going on? Or do you think that people just love these stories and they're not going to give up on them?

JG: Yeah, no, they won't give up. And an avalanche, it's too normal, it's too banal for the Dyatlov Pass mystery. And people don't like simple things like this. It's part of the Russian lore -- and no, I don't think it will ever be solved. No one survived so.

CO: Right. It's all part of lore now. Johan I appreciate you telling us the story. Thank you.

JG: Thank you very much.

CH: That was Johan Gaume, the co-author of a new study looking into the mysterious Dyatlov Pass incident. We reached him in France.

[Music: Hip-hop Music]

QAnon Lawyer

Guest: Albert Watkins

CH: When police started looking for suspects after the riot at the US Capitol, it didn't take long to identify Jacob Chansley. He was photographed inside the Capitol, shirtless, heavily-tattooed with his face painted, and sporting a fur headdress with horns. Mr. Tansley is known, by himself anyway, as the QAnon Shaman. The conspiracy theory preacher is now charged with civil disorder and entering and remaining in a restricted building, amongst other things. Except now the Shaman is changing his tune. He now wants to testify against Donald Trump at his upcoming impeachment trial. Albert Watkins is his lawyer. We reached him in St. Louis, Missouri.

CO: Mr. Watkins, how does your client go from being a QAnon true believer, storming the US Capitol to offering to testify against Donald Trump?

ALBERT WATKINS: My client is not unique. My client is and has been going through quite a process. Remember, he was like millions, tens of millions, of Americans groomed by a president who is extremely skilled at communicating in a fashion which did not involve complete sentences. My client fell in love with the president because he heard what he wanted to hear or what he thought was what President Trump wanted him to hear.

CO: And so what would he tell the senators if he were to testify at the impeachment trial?

AW: Well, what he would say is that by the time January 6th, 2021, came around, my client appeared at the ellipse on the other side of the White House, just like everyone else, at the request of the president. They heeded his call. They appeared to hear the words of a president who had called out to them to help him save our nation. And in short order, during the course of a rambling presentation, basically put my client and tens of thousands of others in a position of genuinely believing that they were being invited by the president to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol to save our great country.

CO: But Mr. Chansley, isn't he not just trying to save his own neck here by testifying? He's the one who got dressed up with the horns and the fur and the paints and everything and participated in storming the Capitol. I mean, couldn't he have used his own judgement?

AW: No, my client didn't storm the Capitol. That is one of the characterisations that's incorrect. Show my client was not shrouding his face in secrecy. He's a long standing and committed follower of the Shaman faith. This is his attire. It is something that he wears and has worn not just at Trump rallies, but over the course of his adult life. This is a man who was not wearing a bullet-proof vest. He didn't have a pipe bomb on them or a gun on him. He wasn't violent. He didn't overcome police. He didn't force himself on others. He didn't assault people. He did not destroy property.

CO: Right. Your client is seen carrying a spear approximately six feet in length with an American flag on it. He is seen looking for Mike Pence. He leaves a note saying 'It's only a matter of time. Justice is coming.' Surely this appears to be a menacing person, does it not?

AW: No, actually, it doesn't. You have to get to know the man behind the horn and the fur. First of all, the spear is not a functional spear, and it was a flagpole -- it's part of his attire, which may admittedly fall outside the bell curve of normalcy. But my client, if you look at the note and you read the words of the note and you superimpose them on the words spoken by the president just minutes earlier behind the White House, that's exactly what the president said, 'Justice is coming.'

CO: What does he mean by that? What does your client mean by ''It's only a matter of time. Justice is coming' -- what's the message he's giving to Mike Pence?

AW: That those who are traitors to our country, who don't save our nation will be prosecuted. My client was just like tens of thousands of others, just like the high school students being jazzed up by their coach before a big game on a Friday night.

CO: Does he think what he did was wrong?

AW: Of course. You haven't allowed me to walk through this process. My client ends up in jail after voluntarily surrendering himself peacefully and immediately upon finding out that federal law enforcement was looking for him. He wanted to make sure that the president, before he left, was given the opportunity to take one of the people that he loved, one of the beautiful people that he loved -- Mr. Chansley -- like many many others in his position, give him the opportunity to do the honourable thing and pardon him.

CO: So is that why he wants to testify against Mr. Trump is because he didn't get that pardon and he's hurt and angry?

AW: No. I appreciate the question. And all of these just beget additional information. My client then has to be introspective and my client has to recognise what his role was in being the person who is vulnerable enough to be exploited by a president who had his back squarely facing him.

CO: Now, it really does seem as though he would like to use this as a way to to deal with the trouble he's in. You say that he admits that he's done something wrong. He is a grown up, he must have known at some point whatever he heard from Mr. Trump that he was storming a building. He was there. People were vandalising it. Some of them were looking to harm others. And so, didn't he know that this was wrong?

AW: No, no. In fact, he didn't. And I'm going to suggest you take a look back at 1978 and you look what happened with a bunch of college graduates, husbands, wives, and children in San Francisco who followed their nondenominational Christian leader, who had given apt and given accolades by many around our country...

CO: What are you referring to? We don't know.

AW: ...went to Guyana and ended up drinking the Kool-Aid, and they are dead. And I'm not trying to compare Trump to Jim Jones. I'm trying to compare my client and many many others in like position who were vulnerable and easily exploitable.

CO: And you don't think that people should take responsibility for their own actions?

AW: I did not say that. In fact, quite to the contrary. Quite to the contrary. There is culpability when you're a 33 year old man and you are going into the Capitol, as we all watched on January 6th -- there's culpability, but not the type of culpability that you are seeing in the knee jerk reaction that occurred on January 6th.

CO: Just finally, does your client still believe in the QAnon conspiracy theory that Democrats are Satan worshipping paedophiles who plotted against Mr. Trump while operating a global child sex trafficking ring?

AW: I can tell you that my client process of deprogramming is not one which is complete.

CO: He's being deprogrammed?

AW: Well, we all deprogrammed. When we're betrayed, whether it's the first love of our life or whether it's the mailman with our significant other, it doesn't matter. The betrayal is something that requires a process. My client is in the middle of that process. He's a bright man, a soft spoken man, a gentle man. And he's getting it better and faster than many of the recalcitrant, extraordinarily wealthy white-collar crime defendants that you'll see across the country.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there, Mr. Watkins. Thank you.

AW: My pleasure. Thank you.

CH: Albert Watkins is the lawyer for Jacob Chansley. We reached him in St. Louis, Missouri. Mr. Chansley has been charged after being pictured bare chested, wearing fur and horns inside the US Capitol earlier this month. For more on the story, go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Piano Music]

Hot Peppers

Guest: Mike Jack

MIKE JACK: [SOUNDCLIP: He's got a crazy reaper tail on it. [Intense string music plays in background]

VOICE: Go. One, two, three, four -- swallow -- five, six, seven, eight.

MIKE JACK: (In pain) Oh, it feels so good but hurts so bad at the same time. Ah!]

CH: That was the sound of Mike Jack eating Carolina Reaper Peppers this past November -- not for fun or not just for fun, but for credit. And this week he got it. Guinness confirmed that Mr. Jack had set a new hot pepper eating record by eating those Carolina Reapers faster than anyone else in the world. We reached Guinness World Record Holder Mike Jack in London, Ontario.

CO: Mike, that sounded awful. I mean [chuckles] what did it feel like?

MIKE JACK: I've felt worse for sure. But yeah, it was pretty hot. It was pretty hot in my mouth.

CO: Hot in your mouth and hot going down as well?

MJ: Yeah, that's where -- I think it was maybe like about an hour later is when it got like pretty rough in the tummy.

CO: And we didn't get a sense of how fast you were eating those hot peppers. How many did you eat and how quickly did you do it?

MJ: That was the Guinness record for fastest time to eat three Carolina Reaper Peppers. The time to beat was, I believe, it was 10.95 seconds. And I did it in 9.72 seconds.

CO: And so is it actually better to do it quicker than slower? I mean, because you were chomping down pretty hard on those peppers.

MJ: Yeah, for sure. When eating peppers, I've eaten a lot of peppers, it's best to eat them fast. To be honest, I didn't even really feel the heat until it was all done and over with because I've kind of built up a tolerance for heat. I guess most people, if you just touch them to your tongue, it's going to be pretty unbearable. But I've been at this for a while.

CO: On a scale of one to ten, how hot are Carolina Reaper Peppers?

MJ: I'd say for most people on a scale of one to ten, it's probably a 12.

CO: I mean, how do they rate in the scale of hot peppers? Is that one of the hottest?

MJ: Yeah. The Carolina Reaper, it has the Guinness record right now for the world's hottest pepper. So they averaged 1.6-million Scoville heat units. And they can get up to, I think the top end is like 2.2-million Scoville heat units.

CO: Wow. And you consumed, you threw them back -- and so how did you prepare your body for that?

MJ: Well, it's best not to eat spicy stuff, especially peppers on an empty stomach. So I try to eat something that's going to sit in your stomach. So usually my favourite thing is like some fried hash browns, like home fries sort of thing -- I eat a bowl or two of those before. And yeah, it kind of makes a layer in your stomach. And then afterwards, you don't really feel like eating after eating super spicy stuff sometimes. But the best thing to do is to just try to keep eating just to make sure your stomach doesn't -- because once it gets empty and it's just those peppers in there that's where it's bad news.

CO: Okay. So milk doesn't help? You can't drink milk to mitigate that?

MJ: Yeah, that's what most people would use -- milk or some kind of dairy products. But I'm actually vegan, so I don't do any dairy.

CO: If you're vegan, you must care about what you put into your stomach, into your gut. So why would you punish your your intestines to this degree?

MJ: I'm vegan for the animals, not necessarily as a dietary choice. I still eat Oreos and vegan doughnuts, stuff like that, so it's not like a super health thing. But I just like spicy food and I just kept getting spicier and spicier. And then I tried eating hot peppers, found out there was kind of like a following or kind of like a cult community, I guess, of people who, you know, eat peppers and other spicy challenges and stuff like that. I realised I was good at it and I just kind of pushed myself as far as I could go.

CO: Why did you decide that you wanted to be in competitive hot pepper eating?

MJ: It kind of just escalated. And I guess it all kind of starts with a dare. Like when I was in college, I had roommates who are into, you know, just hot sauce and stuff like that, like, you know, Frank's or Sriracha or whatever. And they kind of got me into just hot sauce. It was kind of like "Ooh, what's the matter, Mike? Like, you don't want any hot sauce on your pizza? Are you a wuss or something?" So then I would partake in that. And one of my friends, he really wanted to start a YouTube channel, and we didn't really know what we were going to do. But then he was like, oh, you're really good with the spicy stuff, so why don't we do that? So I watched a couple of videos and started doing some of the stuff and people liked it. And I kept pushing my limits. Eventually I looked into Guinness World Records and I learnt how to heat eat -- I didn't really know how to do that. And yeah, now that's my fourth Guinness World Record.

CO: These are all pepper eating?

MJ: All for pepper eating, yeah. There's eight different Guinness Record for eating hot peppers on their website, and I have four of them now, so I'm halfway to getting the whole collection.

CO: What's the next one?

MJ: The next one I'm going to try is, it's a little different. I'm just going to start training now for it. It's for most jalapenos eaten in a minute. Jalapenos aren't as hot, but the record is a little bit harder than some of the other ones I have because there's a lot more people willing to eat jalapenos than ghost peppers or Carolina Reapers. So they have like a pretty good record set. So it has to be pretty fast to get that one. I think I can do it. I just need to train a little bit more and get a little bit faster.

CO: Well, Mike, good luck with the training.

MJ: Thanks.

CO: All right. Take care.

MJ: Thank you.

CH: That was Mike Jack. He set a new Guinness Record for the fastest time to eat three Carolina Reaper Chilli Peppers. He spoke to us from London, Ontario.

[Music: Jazz Music]

54-40 Guitar

CH: It's always exciting when you get back something someone stole from you, but sometimes it's also kind of insulting. In October of 2018, someone stole a bunch of guitars that belonged to the band 54-40. Most of them were recovered pretty quickly, but one the one the band felt was most unique, a Gibson dove acoustic remained at large. I assume they gave up on it. But while investigating a break in this month, Chilliwack RCMP officers wound up at a place in Surrey, B.C., where that lonesome dove was found. Obviously great news, but what adds insult and incredulity to injury is that the police also found an enormous array of other stolen stuff, including luggage, guns, clothing, jewellery and electric scooters. Electric scooters, plural -- could have been two, could have been 16. I have absolutely no idea how you steal even one electric scooter without also stealing the person on it. But that's not my point. My point is this is a much loved, irreplaceable, most unique instrument. And it was just sitting there unsold two years and four months later, surrounded by knickknacks, suitcases, necklaces and two to sixteen electric scooters. Surely in all that time, the thieves had realised it was a cool guitar that belonged to 54-40. So maybe they just didn't think that was that big a deal or maybe they just couldn't track down anyone to fence it. But if they couldn't find a fence, I feel like 54-40 should take offence.

[Music: Drum & Bass Music]

Part 2: Volcano mouse once thought extinct is actually 'doing great,' research finds

Quebec Trans/ Non-Binary Court Win

Guest: Eby Heller

CH: A Quebec judge has ordered the provincial government to remove a series of legal hurdles keeping trans and non binary people from enjoying equal rights. Yesterday, Justice Gregory Moore gave the province until the end of this year to rewrite sections of the civil code that he found to be in violation of the Charter of Rights. They include provisions that prevent trans and non binary parents from having the records of their children's birth reflect those parents' gender identity. Eby Heller and their partner, Jenna, were two of the plaintiffs in the case. They are farmers and the parents of two young kids. We reached Eby Heller at their farm in Brownsburg-Chatham, Quebec.

CO: Eby this decision was a long time coming. What was your first emotion when you found out that you'd won?

EBY HELLER: That's a good question. I don't think an emotion came out. It was more like, "Oh finally!" You know, at first it felt like relief.

CO: And this began this journey -- a very very difficult journey -- with the documentation of your first child's birth. You and your partner, Jenna, what trouble did you run into right away?

EH: Yeah. So when I met Jenna, Jenna was in the process of transitioning. She wanted to have kids, I wanted to have kids. So we got about that. And when I was pregnant, she was in the process of changing her legal designation of sex at that time. At that time in Quebec, so we're talking about in 2013, there was a lot of paperwork involved with having to change your designation of sex. So she had submitted the paperwork and our child was born in early April. We filled out the birth certificate request. In Quebec at that time, you could have two mothers, you could have two fathers, but you could only have two and it had to be mother or father.

CO: And so that meant you couldn't be just listed as parents who had to be a mother or father?

EH: Exactly. So we listed both of ourselves as mother, which was the best we felt we could do at the time. But it came back to us, the birth certificate, you know, three weeks later when you're really sleep deprived and working way too hard on a small organic farm, listing Jenna as the father. And that just felt like, you know, a punch in the gut. And Jenna received her change in designation of sex. A month or two later, we called up the government here in Quebec and said, 'What can we do to change this? This doesn't make sense. You know, Jenna has just had t this legal change in designation of sex. And how can we make sure that that's reflected on our first child's birth certificate?' And I think eventually a manager of a manager somewhere said, well, you could take it up in the courts.

CO: And that's what you did. But is mother -- how do you identify?

EH: So I don't identify as mother. I identify as non-binary. So to my kids, I am their parent. They often call me Eby. But mother was the best possible option at the time since there was no parent. And at the time I actually wasn't identifying as non-binary. But since then I have. And that's something that with this decision, we can change that as well now.

CO: Okay, so then your first child eventually went to school. And so what happened when you tried to get your first child registered?

EH: Yeah, so in January, before she was going to start school, I went to the local school on the day that you're supposed to and brought all of the paperwork, including her birth certificate and, you know, walked in. And we live in a pretty small town and lots of parents there who I knew and I realised I was going to have to essentially out my partner to the secretary in front of a whole bunch of other parents. And her door was wide open. And I did my best to try to share as discreetly as I could like 'This isn't how my kid sees her parent. Her parent is her moms, not her dad. You know, can you do something in the school forms to make a note?' And, you know, the secretary was fine. She didn't really understand why these things would be so different. But she said, well, this is what's listed, so I have no choice but to list that in kid's file. And I walked out that day and felt, like, I guess it shouldn't bother me so much, it shouldn't be such a big deal. But why should it be such a big deal to change it then? I think both Jenna and I cried quite a bit that day, just feeling, God, why does this have to follow even our kid?

CO: But now it's come that there is Justice Gregory Moore who says, yeah, why should you have to go through that? So just tell us a bit about the Superior Court of Quebec ruling, what it changes.

EH: It says, no, trans people do have a right to be accurately identified on their documents. You know, the paperwork itself, that's not the most important thing in life, but it's such an important piece if it can't follow who you are and if it doesn't follow your identity.

CO: The judge, Justice Moore, said that it was unconstitutional, not allowing non-binary people to change their sex or to record a birth as it corresponded to gender identity being parents. He said it violates the dignity and equality rights of non-binary people. What did it mean for you to read those words?

EH: [Chuckles] You know, when I testified in this trial and I was testifying on behalf of my family and my partner. I hadn't at that point come to the realisation that I was non-binary. I had struggled with gender issues my whole life and had been ashamed about it and had felt like I didn't really have a right to have a space as a non-binary individual because, 'You know, it's not a big deal. It just shouldn't matter. I shouldn't worry about it. You know, I'm here as a great ally and support to my partner and to other trans folks. But it doesn't matter if you're non-binary, whatever.' And that shame and guilt and fear that I had been living with my whole life. And to hear those words does really help me in my own personal journey of feeling okay about being a non-binary person and taking up that little tiny piece of space on a little piece of paper somewhere. And I do appreciate the justice for saying that.

CO: I know there probably are some legal hurdles still ahead, but Eby this is great news for you and for your family. And I really appreciate that you'd tell us about it. Thank you.

EH: Thank you so much.

CH: Eby Heller is a parent and a farmer. We reached them in Brownsburg-Chatham, Quebec.

[Music: Calm Music]

William Hudson

CH: William Hudson wants to see a public enquiry into the deaths of Indigenous people at the hands of police. Last year, his 16 year old daughter, Eishia Hudson, died after she was shot by a Winnipeg officer. Police say Ms. Hudson was driving a stolen car with several passengers that they believed was involved in a liquor store robbery. There was a police chase and Ms. Hudson was shot. Video of that moment has been shared online. Now, Manitoba's independent investigation unit, or IIU, has released its findings, including a recommendation from the prosecution service that the officer may not be charged. Yesterday, William Hudson questioned the report's findings and wondered how the police response might have been different if his daughter hadn't been Indigenous. He also remembered his daughter, Eishia.

WILLIAM HUDSON: You know, she had a great smile. [voice softens] She definitely want to light up the room. She wanted to be the loudest one in the room. You know what? She loved sports. I had her in basketball and hockey. She loved both. I've tried to pray and hope for the best, but also prepare myself for the worst. But as a parent, you can never prepare yourself for this. I've tried, I've tried and I've tried walking here and last night and to be ready for this decision. It's bad to say, because I knew what the decision was going to be before you hear the report. But the decision given by the investigation unit, I feel complete angry. I feel the report was unclear and one-sided. I feel frustrated and disappointed with the outcome. [Crying] The IIU works with the police every day -- they can't be trusted to give a fair opinion. The report states that the footage is the most reliable piece of evidence. The statement from the subject officer and his recollection does not add up with the video footage. Look at the statement, watch the video, they do not go together. It's what I did last night -- you know, I watched the video over and over. I don't know how many times. And for a parent to watch that video...for a parent to watch that video over and over and to hear those guns -- those gun shots take your daughter's life and try to put the report together.

CH: That was William Hudson, the father of 16 year old, Eishia Hudson. The civilian director of Manitoba's IIU, called the investigation a complete and thorough review of all the available evidence. He said he is satisfied that no stone was left unturned.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Volcano Mice

Guest: Eric Rickart

CH: The Pinatubo mouse has been through a lot. As its name suggests, the mouse's habitat is Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines. In 1991, the volcano erupted, killing 722 people and destroying the area. And because of the sheer destruction, the small mouse was thought to be extinct. But it turns out the opposite is true. We know that thanks to research by Danny Balete, a researcher at Chicago's Field Museum. But before he could publish his findings, Mr. Balete died. So Eric Rickart picked up his friend's work. Mr. Rickat is the curator of vertebrates at the Natural History Museum of Utah and the lead author on a new paper about the Mammals of Mount Pinatubo. We reached him in Salt Lake City, Utah.

CO: Eric, can you just first of all, just describe what the terrain -- what the landscape is like on Mount Pinatubo now?

ERIC RICKART: Yes, well, it's a far cry from what it was before the eruption when it was closed with old growth forest. Right now, it actually probably looks pretty much the same as it did 10 years ago when Danny Balete did the survey on the mountain.

CO: And is it barren completely?

ER: It's not completely barren, but it's a very eroded landscape. So there are lots of landslides. It was dangerous for the crews to work there. They had to be very careful where they went because they were constantly hearing landslides. So what that does is it sort of resets the clock for plant succession. So everything was always -- I mean, it's sort of in a state of limbo in terms of being able to proceed to forest.

CO: And this is even 30 years after the volcano?

ER: Yes. Yes.

CO: Wow. So now, how unlikely was it that this little mouse would have survived and thrived?

ER: Well, at the time, we thought that it would have been very unlikely. All the information we had going back to the first specimen and only specimen of this mouse that was known to science, which was back in 1958 I believe -- everything we know about it suggested that it was restricted to the mountain. It wasn't on nearby mountains or anything like that. So we thought that given the devastation of the volcanic eruption, that things were pretty dire.

CO: And how is it doing?

ER: It's doing great. Contrary to everything we expected, the disturbed landscape, even though it was very harsh and forbidding, the animals occurred there were principally native species and most of them were species that are kind of ecological generalists, and they're very broadly distributed in Luzon and even beyond it in some other areas of the Philippines. But Apomys sacobianus is apparently restricted to the mountain. And yet it was by far the most abundant animal that the surveys encountered.

CO: What is this little mouse look like?

ER: I guess it's about the size of a chipmunk. It doesn't look like a chipmunk. It looks like a big deer mouse, big native mouse. They have fairly large eyes and large ears. And it's very colourful. It has sort of a reddish brown colouration that is really nice. It's a very attractive mouse.

CO: So in addition to being a very attractive mouse, which I like your description, [laughs] this little guy just likes it rough, just thrives on challenge.

ER: Yeah, that's right. And as I said, it was a surprise. But then when we thought about it, it makes sense. And even though the 1991 eruption of Pinatubo was absolutely devastating and destroyed most of the forest on the mountain, it was actually very mild or it was not as intense as previous eruptions that had occurred during the geological history of the mountain. And there were several of them.

CO: Right. And a lot of people died in that eruption, many of them escaped. It was extraordinary that they got out in time. But it destroyed the area. Is it possible that the landscape will recover or return to the point where people might settle there or will be able to settle there again?

ER: Oh, they actually are already moving into the area. So the Aeta people who were often -- they are short statured people who are descendants of the earliest humans in the Philippines. They're hunter gatherers. They live in smaller communities. Before the eruption, there were communities on the mountain where they lived. And currently I don't know how close they're living to the mountain, but they definitely are moving into the area and they're growing crops again and things of that sort. It's their ancestral home and actually they have a legal right to be there. And it's their domain, essentially, which is actually very nice. So people are there and they are moving in. What we hope is that the area will be protected both for to encourage the Aeta and also to encourage the forest development over time, but it's going to take some time.

CO: This research -- you've mentioned a couple of times Danny Balete who was doing this, who died before he could publish the work. Why was it important for you to publish that study and work that he had done?

ER: Well, it was interesting work, of course, but it was only one of many projects that Danny was working on and had started and sort of set aside. And after he died, it was just something we had to pick up and run with, mostly to honour Danny, but also to report what we think is a very encouraging sign that everything isn't just doom and gloom. And even something as tragic and catastrophic as a volcanic eruption has a silver lining that it tells us that this animal, in particular, the Pinatubo mouse, but also mammals of the Philippines in general, are incredibly resilient in the face of this kind of catastrophe, as are the Filipino people.

CO: Eric, it's a really interesting story. Lovely to hear about your colleague. And thanks for speaking with us.

ER: Thank you very much.

CH: Eric Rickart is the curator of vertebrates at the Natural History Museum of Utah. He was in Salt Lake City. And we have some photos of that attractive mouse at: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Cicely Tyson

CH: In her new memoir, Just As I Am, the great Cicely Tyson reflects on what she learnt in her 96 years. She writes, "Relish the ride." And the groundbreaking black actress lived that mantra until the very end. Ms. Tyson died just two days after her book was published. Cicely Tyson embodied the lives of others on screen in more than 100 film, TV and stage roles. From a driven school teacher to a 110 year old former slave, she very deliberately chose to play remarkable, resilient women, including Coretta Scott King and Harriet Tubman. In 1972, on the CBC's Kay Livingstone Show, Ms. Tyson talked about her breakout role in Sounder, a film in which she played the dignified wife of a Louisiana sharecropper. She said it was a role she felt proud to take on after years of reading screenplays that turned her stomach.

CICELY TYSON: We have to get ourselves in a position where we can be selective about what we do. You know, at this point, 51 percent of the moviegoing industry is Black. Three years ago, the movie industry was dying. You know, they were wondering -- I mean, if you notice, all the big studios are closing down. They're merging and closing down. And Black films have literally saved the movie industry. This is my third film. It's been four years since I did one. And I was beginning to think I would never ever do another film because I just have not been able to do the types of films that have been done in the past few years. When I read a script either my skin tingles or my stomach churns and my stomach's been churning a lot. That's how I describe that. I know that actors have to work and it's very difficult to turn down a role when you have to feed a family or, you know, pay your rent. It's been very difficult for me because I have been selected. But there are certain things that I just cannot do and I am not putting them down completely, nor am I putting down those blaxploitation films completely because I tell you, they served a purpose. They allowed us to get our foot in the door. I mean, the medium of film is an educational medium and it's supposed to depict life as it is. What we need now are positive images for our children so that their lives will be something. I mean, we've gotten past worrying about being bBlack. You know, we've gotten past our kinky hair. And now the energies that we used to used to just function as a human being in this world, you know, because you're Black, you're you're different because your hair is kinky it's bad. We've just gotten over that. Now, for God's sakes, give our youth some more positive images to channel their energies towards, you know, so that our citizens of tomorrow can be president of the United States. Do you know what I mean? I feel very strongly about that. And I know there are arguments pro and con. I mean, there are arguments by people who say, "well, that it does exist." We know that it does exist. It not only exists in our race, it exists in the White race too. But they have The Godfather and they have James Bond, but they also have Love Story and they have The Immigrants and they have Romeo and Juliet and they have all of those others. You know, it's not just all -- and that's my fight. Let's balance the scales a little bit and give us a choice. You know, don't say this is all they want. Give us a choice and let us make our own decisions.

CH: Cicely Tyson speaking with former CBC host Kay Livingstone in 1972, Ms. Tyson died yesterday at the age of 96, just two days after publishing her memoir, Just As I Am.

[Music: Drum Music]

Part 3: Alberta Spinal Pacemaker

Alberta Spinal Pacemaker

Guest: Richi Gill

CH: About three years ago, Calgary surgeon Richi Gill was boogie boarding while on a family vacation in Hawaii when a wave knocked him down and he hit the ground. Dr. Gill broke his neck and was left paralysed. Now he's the test subject in a study published this week in the journal Nature. Researchers are looking at how a device works to improve the blood pressure of people with spinal cord injuries. We reached Dr. Richi Gill in Calgary.

CO: Richi, people can see the physical effects of a serious spinal cord injury, but obviously there are things going on inside, specifically with blood pressure. Can you tell us about that?

RICHI GILL: So you're totally correct. After a spinal cord injury, which can be a devastating injury, most people notice that inability to walk and in fact, you're in a wheelchair. But a lot of the things we don't think about is when that spinal cord gets injured and those signals get disrupted, the changes that are made on the inside. So things like you said about blood pressure, temperature, regulation and other functions can be quite severely disrupted.

CO: Right. So just tell us a bit about what happens to you. What are the effects of this low blood pressure that's as a result of your injury?

RG: So to be honest, it's very similar to anyone else having pretty low blood pressure from other causes. But in this case, it just occurs more often. So you get that feeling of feeling unwell, light-headed, vision gets blurry and then just generally feel a little bit out of it and it can come on pretty quickly depending on the time of the day. People with spinal cord injury, especially higher injuries such as mine, it can happen in the morning, in the evening or just randomly.

CO: There's a lot of medication for low blood pressure. Does that not help?

RG: So it does help. The challenge is, is the medications that are used to help increase your blood pressure, they do work, but they take time to come on. Or I guess the challenge is, you know, if you take the medication regularly, sometimes have to alter the dosing to get the right impact. The difference with the epidermal stimulation is that it's a pretty immediate response that occurs when it's off and say you're having one of these episodes being able to turn it on, it makes the episode disappear quite quickly.

CO: So this device, which is experimental and you have agreed to be part of the research, it's been described as a pacemaker for the spine. So tell us how it works.

RG: So, yeah, that's actually a really good description of it. There's an electrode that sits on top of the spinal cord and wires that connected through a generator that sits under the skin. So very similar to what a pacemaker for the heart would look like. And then once you activate or turn on the device, there's certain different amounts of signals are current through and that's interpreted by the spinal cord and enhances the signals that are already there. And that seems to have the effect of affecting things like blood pressure and other functions within the body.

CO: And how has it helped you?

RG: For myself, I think there are important parts. One, even though this is not a cure for spinal cord injury, it has potential to improve some of the signalling that still exists within the spinal cord, though that's the limited with the injury. And so it's helpful for me in terms of being able to do more during physiotherapy and rehab, which I hope will help reduce some of the complications that occur after a spinal cord injury. And secondly, it's really helped in terms of reducing those episodes of blood pressure being really low. So I would say, you know, I haven't had one of those episodes in the last few months, I would say. And so it allows me to work during the day and spend time with my family. And I have young kids, so I'm able to be more present with them.

CO: This injury you had during a vacation in Hawaii doing a boogie board session, and it's obviously changed your life considerably. You were a surgeon before all this happened. What toll has it taken on your life and your family?

RG: You know, it's completely changed our lives in many ways. You know, I was fortunate enough to survive the injury, which a lot of people when these water types of injuries occurred, don't. But, you know, I made it. With my injury of my hands are quite limited. I'm not obviously operating anymore. But I've been fortunate enough to be involved still in a lot of patient care, but more in the preoperative and post-operative parts. And, you know, my speciality before was an upper GI surgery and bariatric surgery. So I still work with a lot of those types of patients. And as part of the bariatric active surgical program here in Calgary, and I've started another program with a few colleagues called the Alberta Obesity Centre that allows us to really help patients after they've had bariatric surgery and being involved in their care as well. So it's definitely changed my life, but I'm continuously trying to move forward. And, you know, fortunately, I have had great support from family and friends that helped me get there. And I have three very important reasons in terms of the kids to continuing doing that.

CO: How old are you kids?

RG: They are now 11, 9, and 8.

CO: And are they much help for you?

RG: Yeah, they're actually really helpful. They helped me quite a bit and they've been great and very supportive and motivating for me.

CO: One of the research of the study of this device, this pacemaker, for the spine says that your participation, what they've done with you is a proof of concept for a human. What does that mean? What have you actually been able to contribute to this research?

RG: So my role in this is quite small. You know, I've done a lot of clinical research, you know, prior. But this is an opportunity for me to be on the patient side. So my role is quite small. It's really Dr. Phillips' lab and everyone that's worked with him, that has done a lot of the work. But proof of concept really is just to say that all the work that they've done preliminarily in the animal studies and studies before this to see if these effects may occur in humans -- this demonstrates or at least gives some proof to the fact that I think there's potential that this can improve things like blood pressure and other functions within humans. Obviously, there still needs to be further work on in terms of clinical trials to demonstrate clearly the type of effect and is this something that can be provided to a larger population of patients with spinal cord injury. But you know, the positive effects I've seen, I'm hopeful that those studies will lead to this being more available for other patients as well. And I also hope that this becomes better as more science is provided on this part, that the technology improves as well. You know, I've said to people that I feel like my device is kind of like the flip-phone version of the device and really we need the iPhone version. And so I'm hopeful this will move that forward as well.

CO: Richi, thanks for speaking with us.

RG: Thank you for taking the time and helping to spread the message of people with spinal cord injury and things that are coming.

CO: You bet. Bye bye.

RG: Bye bye.

CH: That was Dr. Richi Gill in Calgary. The study he participated in was led by researchers at the University of Calgary and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology.

[Music: Jazz Music]

Margaret Lyons

CH: Sunday Morning, Quirks and Quarks, and a program called As It Happens, in the 60s and 70s, CBC Radio went through a radio revolution and all three of those shows emerged from it. They were the results of a radical shift in programming and some talented young guns. And significantly, the woman who hired them. Margaret Lyons, died in 2019. And last night, our colleagues celebrated her life with a virtual tribute. Ms. Lyons was born Keiko Margaret Inouye in 1923 to Japanese immigrant farmers. She was fascinated by the news and started her career at the BBC. When she returned to Canada in the 60s, she landed a job as a producer at CBC Radio. And within a few years she became a manager. And that's when she began exerting her influence and her brilliance as one of the first women and women of colour to rise through the ranks. Here she is talking about the radio revolution in 1986.

MARGARET LYONS: I've always looked for people who would take whatever we were doing one step beyond. We were constantly debating in current affairs -- what we could do to make ourselves a more significant force in the country. And we deliberately went out in As It Happens in this country in the morning to carry out radical ideas of presentation.

CH: As It Happens was indeed radical back then. Here's a bit of a documentary by Karen Wells with former producers Mark Starowicz and Pamela Wallin.

KAREN WELLS: I knew nothing of Margaret Lyons until I actually arrived in Toronto. When I went to As It Happens, I think only then started to appreciate the revolution that was underway in radio that she was allowing to happen and feeding and creating. As It Happens, did some crazy, radical, wild things it's hard for people to imagine. And we would trade anything in the world for a phone number so I had Indira Gandhi s home phone number -- I won't even tell you how I had to do that, but it was really promising more than my first born to many. [Laughs].

MARK STAROWICZ: And some days are good, some days were bad, but, you know, it was the voices of the world, a day in the life of the world, which is kind of catchy. And we played on that with this is As It Happens broadcasting, you know, whatever it was 1600 coordinated universal time, whatever that is, nobody knew (laughs) broadcasting through the Atlantic, the United States and ships at sea. And people loved it.

PAMELA WALLIN: It was random and targeted and planned and crazy and all of those things. And you couldn't have done that anywhere unless you have the support of the higher ups and Margaret was a higher up.

CH: Margaret Lyons was the first vice president of CBC Radio and one of the highest ranking female executives in broadcasting at the time, Ms. Lyons died in 2019 at the age of 95. There was a virtual tribute to her last night.

[Music: Calm Music]

Napoleon Journal Sale

Guest: Alizee Rauix

CH: December 2nd, 1805, was the day of one of Napoleon's greatest victories. Military schools still teach it today. It was the Battle of Austerlitz. Napoleon's army faced a larger Russian-Austrian force. The French were outnumbered by tens of thousands of soldiers. But before the end of the day, they were victorious. If you guessed that Napoleon was justifiably immodest about that victory, you're right. And we know that because of his own 74-page account of that triumph, which is now up for sale. Alizee Raux is the co-director of the gallery, Arts et Autographes. Her father owns the manuscript and they're selling it at the Brafa Art Fair. We reached Alizee Raux in Paris.

CO: Alizee, this famous battle lasted one day. The manuscript is 74 pages. What does it cover?

ALIZEE RAUX: It is about all the battle day before and after the day. And you have minute by minute the story of the Napoleon about this battle.

CO: And did he write it? Was it written with General Bertrand?

AR: Yes.

CO: Was it Immediately after the battle? Was it later on or what?

AR: No. Later, 10 years later when he's in St Helena -- when he is exiled in St Helena. And because when he's on part, he has no time for writing his memories of the battle. He does that when he's in exile, when he has time for that.

CO: And so if it was 10 years later, how reliable were the memories, do you think?

AR: I think he is very good because he put a lot of details, more military details. After I think Napoleon glorifying himself because he speaks of himself in the third person, the author says. I think he wants to use his side -- he's not the emperor, and he wants to put the name of the emperor, French emperor, on this manuscript for the historic moment.

CO: Right. So this is him as the hero, as the war hero, Napoleon as the the man. Because he was humiliated at Waterloo, right. So he wanted to, I guess, show this great victory from 1805.

AR: Yeah. Yeah, of course. Especially when he answered the day before the battle that he will win this war. You can find this sentence the day before in this story. So, you know, he puts his memories for glorifying himself.

CO: Right. And so he's dictating this in exile to General Bertrand. I understand there are little notes that Napoleon himself has written in the margins about some of these details, yes?

AR: Exactly. Yes. Correct. He corrected some sentence, some date, and sometimes he put some sentence -- very specific for more information.

CO: Right. Do you have any examples of things that really stand out for you?

AR: Yes, it's possible. For example, he said the emperor choose eight days before his battlefield.

CO: He chose the battlefield eight days earlier.

AR: Eight days before yeah. Imagine you have no Internet, you have no satellite, you have no plans -- and he chose his battlefield with 75,000 soldiers with him. So he is a very very strategic man.

CO: Right. There's one one quotation from the manuscript that is in The Guardian newspaper. It said that he says, "Not an officer, not a general, not a soldier was there who is not determined to win or perish. Nothing was more touching than to see these brave people recognise him," meaning himself, "and they would forget their suffering and say at least victory was well assured." So he is saying that these men were willingly ready to die. And that's his interpretation, right?

AR: Yeah, it's a very true interpretation -- he is very carefully about his soldiers. And this sentence is very, I think, beautiful.

CO: Do you think he's careful about his soldiers or about his image?

AR: Both. [Laughs] I think both because he loved his soldiers because before becoing an emperor before he was a soldier, he was a general and afterwards he was an emperor. So he's a very military man. So he cared about soldiers. But after he wants to win and to conquer Europe. You know, he made Europe before Europe. Now we have Europe that he tried to do make Europe before.

CO: How did your father come to own this manuscript?

AR: Yeah, my father owned this manuscript in the 1970s, approximately during an auction of General Bertrand. There were a lot of boxes with a lot of documents and maps that focussed on the St Helena period and found this manuscript. And he has this manuscript during this auction. And this the first time we decide to exhibit him because we participate to Brafa, one of the best art fairs in the world. And because this is the birthday for the death of Napoleon this year.

CO: Right. So this is because of the date of the anniversary of Napoleon's death -- you're going to put this up for sale at the Brafa Art Fair. How much do you think that this manuscript is worth?

AR: It is 1-million euro. So if you want one to buy it, you come call me or write me or just meet me and we can discuss about that.

CO: All right. Well, we'll see if any of our listeners have a million euros that they want to spend on this, and we'll send them to you. [Laughter] Alizee it's good to talk to you.

AR: [Laughter] Thank you.

CH: Alizee Raux is the co-director of the gallery Arts et Autographe. She and her father are selling a manuscript by Napoleon Bonaparte. It's Napoleon's personal account of his victory at the Battle of Austerlitz in 1845. We reached Alizee Raux, in Paris.

[Music: Pop Music]

Constance Isherwood

CH: Lawyer Constance Isherwood continued to work through the final years of her life and even into the final hours. Ms. Isherwood's son told the Victoria Times Colonist she was very worried about closing real estate deals on the day of her death, and didn't want to put anybody else out. At 101 years old, Ms. Isherwood was the oldest practising lawyer in B.C. She died on Tuesday. Her son described her as an amazing woman and an incredible person. And those qualities, along with her sense of humour and her passion for the legal profession, were very much in evidence in her conversation with Carol in January of last year. At the time, she had just celebrated her 100th birthday. From our archives, here's that conversation with Constance Isherwood.

CO: Constance, first of all, happy belated birthday.

CONSTANCE ISHERWOOD: Thank you.

CO: How was that celebration?

CI: Well, we had much celebration here together with a church service and champagne lunch, if you please. [Laughs]

CO: It sounds more like it was the festival of Constance Isherwood.

CI: [Laughs] Well, I really feel I've been celebrating all weekend.

CO: So what do you make of being 100? I mean, is it the new 70?

CI: It certainly feels younger than 100. I am not quite sure what 100 supposed to feel like. [Laughter] But I think back at 90 and 80 and 70 -- it doesn't seem to be much different.

CO: Well, I mean, for a lot of people, by the time they're even those ages, they've stopped working. And you're still going to work each morning at 100 years old. What keeps you going? Why do you want to keep your job as a lawyer?

CI: The practice of law is very intriguing, of course. And the clients that you meet are people you want to help. So that keeps you interested. And of course, going to work keeps your body active and mind active, which is a good thing at any age.

CO: What kind of law do you like to practise? What areas most intrigue you?

CI: Well, it's called general civil law, which means a little bit of everything except criminal. I never went in for criminal law much. I left that for the boys to do. And I did a bit of everything else.

CO: You know, when you go back, you went into law school in the 1940s, right?

CI: Yes.

CO: That was a time where a lot of women wanted careers. They wanted to get into these professions. And it was difficult, wasn't it? How does it compare now to what you went through when you were starting in the field?

CI: It is entirely different now. The numbers of women in law have increased so much. For myself, I was fortunate in that, prior to going to law school, I had been a legal secretary. And when I graduated I was able to return to the same office. I do feel that I was lucky in that respect.

CO: Because other women encountered a lot of discrimination, a lot of sexism. It was it was a tough tough...

CI: That is true. Many of them found it difficult. I think that has changed through the years.

CO: I understand also the time you went into law school when you were a secretary, you're actually considering another career in music. Can you tell us about that?

CI: I was a member of an all-girl orchestra in which I played the drums. And also I thought, I enjoy singing, but I stayed with the law.

CO: Okay. How did you make that decision? Sounds like it would have been a lot of fun to be in the band.

CI: Well, yes, it would. In fact, I had a session of touring with the band. I think that was a good learning experience because you find that being on the road every day isn't all it's cracked up to be. [Laughter] The law, on the other hand, seems to have something different every day. Again, the clients and the sales are different.

CO: And you married a lawyer?

CI: I did. This was a young man that I met at law school. We were in the same class together. In time, we were married and established a law partnership.

CO: This is Holmes & Isherwood.

CI: That's right. Holmes was my maiden name. In fact, my husband used to say, "oh, she always wanted to be first." [Laughter]

CO: There's something else that is intriguing about the way you work is that you're not into any of the new technology. Not even old technology. No computers. You use a typewriter, you use landlines. What's all that about?

CI: Well, we do have an electric adding machine and we have an electric typewriter. [Chuckles] And I thought we were really getting quite modern. [Laughter] However, I do realize that the computer age is upon us and is very valuable in a law office. And as time went along, my son became my computer man.

CO: Are you going to keep on doing this? Is it any thought of retiring? Any plans for the future?

CI: Well, as far as retirement goes, I've always said, "well, maybe next year. Maybe next year." But now that I'm a hundred, I don't know whether that answer is quite suitable.

CO: Okay, so what advice do you give to people? Because people much much younger than you are feeling old and crotchety and leaving for retirement and sort of giving up on things. What's your advice?

CI: Well, I always say three things: Keep breathing. That's so very important. There's hardly anybody in the world who is alive now, who is not breathing. Number two is: Keep working. And I find that having worked through all the years, that helps to keep you young. And then number three is: Keep smiling. The person who wrote: when you are smiling, the whole world smiles with you. He knew what he was talking about.

CO: Constance it is great advice. And I wish you many many more happy birthdays. Thanks for speaking with us.

CI: Thank you. It has been a pleasure.

CH: From our archives, that was B.C. lawyer Constance Isherwood speaking with Carol back in January of last year. Ms. Isherwood died on Tuesday at the age of 101.

January 29, 2021 Episode Transcript

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