How a debate coach who taught generations of Black leaders 'motivated his students to greatness'

Gloria Batiste-Roberts says her colleague and former debate coach Thomas Freeman had a profound impact on the hundreds of students who walked through his doors.

As head coach and founder of the debate team at Texas Southern University, Freeman encouraged his students to strive for excellence. During seven decades at the historically Black university, Freeman and his debate team racked up hundreds of trophies as they faced white competitors from Harvard and other elite schools.

Doc — as he was called — was equally renowned for his influence. Among those under his tutelage were Martin Luther King Jr., U.S. Congresswoman Barbara Jordan and actor Denzel Washington. Freeman died earlier this month at the age of 100.

In a 2018 interview posted to YouTube, he discussed his experience as a debate coach in the Jim Crow south.

"Everybody else could go to cafeterias and eat. We had to take food along with us so we could eat. And we were in the South and out of food. I stopped at a restaurant, and I was told when I entered, 'We don't serve any Blacks here. If you want to go around the back you can go around and get something to eat.'

"And what was I to do but to forget who I was, what I was, and humble myself and go to the back."

Batiste-Roberts, a social work professor and the director of TSU's Thomas F. Freeman Center for Forensic Excellence, spoke to As It Happens host Carol Off on Friday from Houston, Texas, about her experiences working alongside Freeman and succeeding him as head coach of the debate team. Here is part of their conversation.

Professor Batiste-Roberts, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Thank you so much. It is an incredible loss. And it is still so unreal.

Dr. Freeman came to the office every day from about 7:30 a.m. until 7:30 p.m. And when COVID came and he was not able to come to the office, it was very heartbreaking for him. And he would ask me almost every day, "When could we return to the office, Gloria?" 

And he did a lot of interviews and a lot of speaking engagements, even at 100 years old. 

His last really large speech took place last summer for the National Speech and Debate Association. He received their lifetime achievement award. Excerpts from that speech were played at his funeral at Texas Southern University. It was so profound and so timely.

In the speech, he told students, "You are the master of your own destiny. You set your own heights." He mentioned that our generation is leaving the students a legacy where we have not done so well, but they can do better.

And later, we got on an elevator going up to the 32nd floor and there was a young Hispanic girl who got on with us. She started tearing up and I thought she was afraid of heights. Instead, she said, "I never thought I would get this close to him."

She was mesmerized. That's the kind of impact he had on young people. Yhey just wanted to be close to him. He was a motivator and inspirer. And, of course, a master teacher and coach.

It's not just the words that are so powerful, it's the way he can put drama into the language. The cadence, the rise and fall of his speech and the pauses that bring a story alive. Where did he develop that?

When he was a young boy, he was asked to speak in church. And I think he was really afraid, but his mother motivated and pushed him.

And so at nine years old, he overcame fear and became a little miniature master preacher. And I think at that point, from the preaching in the church, this foundation was set.

Then, it was nurtured throughout his studies, and particularly his doctorate degree in homiletics — the art of preaching —from the University of Chicago.

So he arrived at Texas Southern University and founded the team because the students wanted to debate. Then the team went out and cleaned everybody's clock and were extraordinary. What do you know about the influence he had on students who went on to do extraordinary things in their own right, like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.?

He believed in students and felt he could teach anyone.

When I came back to help him as an assistant coach, there was a student who he wanted me to take to a tournament. That student could barely say his own name, but he was brilliant. He had a good mind but had not yet developed good speech delivery.

Dr. Freeman told me I had to take this young man to the tournament because he believed students learned and grew through having opportunities to compete. I wasn't keen, but I took the student anyway. 

Two years later, I asked that particular student to give an impromptu speech. I knew he had a great mind, but I had no idea how much he had learned. I was just astounded.

I ran to Dr. Freeman's office, and said, "Doc, you should hear Calvin. He's excellent." 

And Dr. Freeman just looked at me with a look that said "I told you so." But he would never tell you that. It was not in his character. 

That particular student went on to become the first African-American assistant district attorney in Key West, Florida. All because Dr. Freeman believed in him. Doc knew that if he gave this student the opportunity and provided the forum, this student would eventually learn how to be a dynamic speaker. 

Dr. Freeman motivated his students to greatness and they came in record numbers to his funeral from all across the country. It was incredible. It was quite a memorable event and a testament to his greatness.

We knew we did our best and we knew this country could not see our greatness. But we knew we could make a difference- Gloria Batiste-Roberts, Texas Southern University 

We are talking on Juneteenth and just listened to a story from Dr. Freeman about what it was like as a young man overcoming racism. What did he tell his own students about overcoming racism they encountered?

Most of the tournament's we attended were predominantly white since there were not that many Black schools that had debate programs. So he knew what we would face. Some of the comments on the ballots were so ugly and so hurtful. And many of my colleagues and I would be in tears, but he would help us move beyond that. He would say, "You did a good job. And that is what is important."

He would say, "No one can tell you anything on a ballot. No one can crush you if you know you did a good job." He would tell us, "If somebody is being ugly to you, just turn the channel and act like they're telling you good things and keep going." He would have us move forward because he did not want us to get stuck in that pain. 

I've had a lot of painful experiences on debate trips where we could have the best debater in the room but we didn't make it to finals. And then we'd watch finals and hear all of these speeches that were not nearly as good as ours. We knew we did our best and we knew this country could not see our greatness. But we knew we could make a difference later.

And that's why so many of the debaters became lawyers, politicians, city commissioners and council people. They were motivated to change that situation so that their children would not feel some of the pain that they experienced on debate trips.

Written by Lito Howse. Interview produced by Morgan Passi and Sarah Jackson. Edited for length and clarity.