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The AIH Transcript for September 06, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: Bringing up the arrears. A human-rights tribunal says Ottawa underfunded a system that was supposed to protect Indigenous kids at risk, and must pay nearly 2 billion dollars — but Cindy Blackstock isn't celebrating yet.

CH: A paragon turned pariah. The late Robert Mugabe began his political career as a hero who liberated Zimbabwe from white-minority rule — before his reign turned ruthless and tyrannical.

CO: With U.S. Open arms. This weekend, Bianca Andreescu will become the first Canadian to play in the final at Flushing Meadows — her former coach tells us he knew from the start she'd be a smashing success.

CH: Hiding agenca. During the Second World War, the late Diet Eman joined the Dutch resistance — and found shelter for hundreds of Jews, to keep them from being found by the Nazis.

CO: The Butler didn't do it. But while he was watching the latest Gerard Butler action flick, a BC man did suffer a heart attack — and while he's not a fan of the movie, he gives the audience members who helped two thumbs up.

CH: And...more like leaves-dropping. Squirrels may appear to be just cute dorks who have no clue what's going on -- but in fact they're listening closely to the birds over their small, empty heads.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that always appreciates a little featherly advice.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: First Nation compensation, Robert Mugabe obit, Bianca Andreescu wins

First Nation compensation

Guest: Cindy Blackstock

CH: The Canadian government "willfully and recklessly" discriminated against at-risk Indigenous kids. Those are the words the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal used in a decision today. It finds that Ottawa knowingly underfunded the on-reserve child welfare system, despite having ample warning of what that could mean for the tens of thousands of children and families it was their duty to help. The decision requires Ottawa to pay compensation that could total well over a billion dollars. Today's ruling is the latest chapter in what has sometimes seemed like an endless battle for Cindy Blackstock. Ms. Blackstock is the executive director of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society. She first brought this complaint to the tribunal in 2007. We reached Ms. Blackstock in Ottawa.

CO: Ms. Blackstock, as people who have listened to you on this program for many years know, you have been fighting this for so long, but it isn't over. First of all though, what does this ruling mean today?

CIDY BLACKSTOCK: Well, this is a collective effort by many, many people. The ruling today is really landmark, and should be really wake up Canadians in their consciousness — because it found Canada is willfully and recklessly discriminating against First Nations children today. And what that means is that Canada knew about the inequalities in First Nations Child and Family Services, knew about the harms that that was creating, had solutions to fix it, and chose — and that’s the keyword — chose not to fix it. And that resulted in unbelievable harms in terms of kids going into care, and in some cases sadly, kids losing their lives.

CO: The tribunal wrote that — this is a quote — Canada's conduct was devoid of caution, with little to no regard of the consequences. Can you tell us what the consequences were for these children?

CB: Yeah. You know we know that from residential school survivors, and for these kids, that being placed outside their family means a loss of culture, a loss of language, a loss a connection to family, a loss a sense of self. Think about it for yourself, if I was to remove children, and they could have stayed in your family home and placed some somewhere else, what that would do to your family and to that child. Well, that's a lived reality of all these thousands of kids who have experienced this hardship. And then on the other side, there were First Nations children who were denied public services that they ought to have received — that every other Canadian kid would have received. And in some of those cases tragically the lack of those services the tribunal said were linked to the actual deaths of some children.

CO: Can you give us some examples of what you're talking about?

CB: Sure. 2016 The tribunal ordered the discrimination to stop. But in 2017, the tribunal found that Canada had not implemented Jordan's Principle and made the services available to First Nations kids. And they linked that non-compliance to the deaths of two young girls 12-years-old from Wapekeka First Nation who died of suicide when that community had made an urgent plea for mental health services to stop a suicide pact amongst their young girls months before. The federal government when it received that funding proposal — even in light of the tribunal's decision — said well, we can't fund it because that funding proposals arrives at an awkward time in the funding cycle.

CO: Can you remind people what Jordan's Principle is?

CB: Jordan's Principle means that First Nations children should receive public services they need when they need them. It's a basic principle of equality adopted by the federal government in 2007. But the federal government never implemented it.

CO: People I think might think that you're talking about things that happened a long time ago, and because we know what the effects were of the Sixties Scoop. But this isn't back then. This is we're talking about a time frame of between 2007 and 2017, is that right?

CB: Well, actually, they extend the timeframe to right now as we're speaking, Carol. The decision on Child and Family Services — the tribunal — said Canada’s not in full compliance. And until they're in full compliance, every child who comes into care today, tomorrow, and the next day are going to be subject to this compensation. So what listeners need to know is that Canada continues to willfully and recklessly racially discriminate against kids. And one of the things I think that really signals to us is that they didn't learn from the residential schools, they didn't learn from the Sixties Scoop, and they didn't learn from that 2016 tribunal decision. So the whole Department of Indigenous Affairs needs to be independently evaluated and reformed as an urgent priority. And then the second thing that needs to happen is get the Parliamentary Budget Officer to cost out all the inequalities facing First Nations kids. And let's for once in the history of this country create a comprehensive plan to get rid of all of them, so another generation of kids doesn't have to experience the hardship this generation is experiencing, and the ones before already have.

CO: We heard a reaction from the federal government — the Office of Indigenous Services Minister Seamus O’Regan — who says that they are reviewing the important and complex issues addressed in today's order. What message is that sending to you about how they might respond to this tribunal decision?

CB: Well, two things. Number one, if it was my organization that was found to be willfully and recklessly discriminating against children in real-time right now, my top priority would be reforming my department to stop that. And it's disappointing not to see that in that announcement. The second thing though is I think that signals to all of us that they are going to file an appeal. They have 30 days to do so. Even if they file on appeal that they still have to implement the decision, unless the federal court also issued what's called a stay. The threshold for a stay is very high. If they file one, we will meet them in federal court, and we will try to make sure that that doesn't happen for families — because they've suffered enough.

CO: We have been talking to you for years about this. You have fought so many court battles, and in all cases arguing different files that Indigenous children are getting significantly less in the way of compensation and welfare assistance than non-Indigenous children. You’ve fought it. They have fought you. They've spent millions and millions of dollars fighting you in court. Do you ever see a light at the end of this tunnel?

CB: Well, I don't know why they're fighting at all? Like I mean that's been the biggest shock of everything because — and I think the tribunal points that out too — is like why are they even fighting this? This is little kids and this is equity. And every time they fight us, they lose in court. And not only has it been us pointing the inequalities out, it’s groups like the Auditor-General, the Parliamentary Budget Officer. There's all kinds of evidence that these inequalities exist. So that's why we need to reform the department. Because I think everyday Canadians would say man, if they prove the inequality and that it was harming kids and, in fact, putting kids lives at risk, they should be moving heaven and earth to comply. And yet, they haven't done that.

CO: Ms. Blackstock, I have a feeling we'll be speaking again.

CB: I think so too, Carol. And I hope it's about happy news. I'm happy for the children and families today. But I'm sad that even such a decision was needed.

CO: All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

CB: Bye-bye.

CH: Cindy Blackstock is the executive director of the First National Child and Family Caring Society. We reached her in Ottawa.

[Music: Sombre]

Robert Mugabe obit

Guest: Beatrice Mtetwa

CH: A liberator — and a despot. Former Zimbabwean president Robert Mugabe has died. He was 95 years old. Back in the '60s and '70s, he was imprisoned for almost eleven years by the minority-white government of what was then Rhodesia. When he was finally released, Mr. Mugabe took up arms from neighbouring Mozambique — launching a series of attacks against Rhodesia's white landowners. In the midst of that civil war, he and other black nationalist leaders went to Geneva to participate in peace talks with Ian Smith's government. And at the time, Robert Mugabe spoke with Barbara Frum on "As It Happens", about why he wasn't optimistic about those talks.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBERT MUGABE: Nothing really has been happening of a positive nature. We have been discussing preliminaries with the British government, and nothing substantially has been discussed.

BARBARA FRUM: Any sign that Mr. Smith is moderating his proposals on his side?

RM: No, we don't know yet what Mr. Smith is prepared to offer. There have been press statements, of course. But this is no indication of what he really is going to offer. In any case, we are not here to negotiate with Mr. Smith. We are here to negotiate with the British government. The British government is the colonial power, and we would like to decolonize our territory.

BF: The war in Rhodesia seems to be hotting up — 11 people killed in the last two days. Is this on anyone's explicit orders?

RM: Well, the orders have been standing. The war must continue. We are not going to stop the war at all. The reason why we started the war was not to get Geneva talks on, but to get our independence. We haven't got this independence, and the war will continue until the independence has come.

CH: Robert Mugabe, speaking with Barbara Frum on As It Happens about the 1976 Geneva Conference — which would fall apart not long after that interview. It would take another three years for the Lancaster House Agreement — and peace — to come. But for Zimbabweans, that peace would be short-lived. In the decades between his ascent to power and his death earlier today, Robert Mugabe became tyrannical — imprisoning opposition leaders, suppressing free expression, torturing dissidents, and presiding over a massive economic crisis. Beatrice Mtetwa is a Zimbabwean human rights lawyer who has defended journalists and opposition politicians targeted by Robert Mugabe. We reached her today in Johannesburg, South Africa.

CO: Ms. Mtetwa, what it is has been your reaction? What have been your thoughts and feelings today since the news that Robert Mugabe is dead?

BEATRICE MTETWA: Well, I mean for most Zimbabweans — and certainly for myself as well — You know it has involved mixed feelings and emotions. There was the euphoric assumption of power, with the great expectations in 1980 — even from his arch-enemies. But they goal obviously change somehow some way in between.

CO: You say you’re having mixed emotions, and I heard street interviews in Zimbabwe this morning on the radio. People when they heard the news it was very, very, very powerful and mixed emotions of the people were very quiet, in fact. That was one of the remarks. Why is that the case? How mixed are these emotions that Zimbabweans are going through today?

BM: In India the Shona language there is saying [a phrase spoken in Shona that translates to] “people do not speak ill of the dead.” But if you go to social media, you see how virtually everyone is blaming him for the current state of affairs in Zimbabwe. Basically, his legacy has been one of leaving behind a ruined nation with a leadership that is steeped in corruption, that is not respecting rights, that is basically is following in his path.

CO: The clip we played — the interview that Barbara Frum had with Mr. Mugabe back in 1976 — what we're hearing there is a Robert Mugabe who was standing up to Great Britain. Who was refusing to negotiate with Ian Smith, who was just the Prime Minister of Rhodesia. He was attempting to liberate your country from colonialism, seeking independence. That’s the Robert Mugabe that many world leaders and African leaders are pointing to today to say we can't forget that Robert Mugabe. Would you agree with them?

BM: We can't forget the fact that he was involved in the liberation struggle. But the African leaders who are in the forefront of speaking about what a great man he was are as much a dictator as he was. So you don't really expect them to condemn him for doing exactly what they continue doing. I'm not going to listen to Yoweri and his three days of mourning when he is as much a dictator as Robert Mugabe was. And he obviously would be eulogized the minute he dies.

CO: You're speaking of the Ugandan president there. You yourself have been defending the political opponents of Mr. Mugabe, who have faced prosecution, they have faced torture, they have faced death. What has it been like for you to be trying to help those people over these years of — the final years of — Mr. Mugabe's rule?

BM: It's just frustrating, of course, to go see that they tended to conflate what my clients would have been alleged to have done with what I'm doing. So it has been difficult terrain. But hey, if Mugabe could navigate that terrain against Ian Smith, we should have been able to navigate to this particular path against him — because his behaviour was exactly the same as Smith's behaviour, and they didn't give up then. And my view is that we shouldn't give up either.

CO: And the legacy of Mr. Mugabe, not just the issues of human rights and how you and others fought that, but the that another huge part of it is what happened to what was a very prosperous country, which was able to produce food for its people that ended up as an economic basket case. What do you put at Mr. Mugabe's feet for what happened to the Zimbabwean economy?

BM: Well, he is directly responsible for really the three million Zimbabweans who are out in the diaspora for economic and political reasons. He is entirely responsible for the 90 per cent unemployment in Zimbabwe. He is responsible for the current leadership, which believes that they are immune and can do everything they want to do with impunity. He is responsible for every ill that currently afflicts Zimbabwe. And I don't buy any of this talk that he was a great man. A great man will be a great man throughout his entire life. And his legacy is one of a country that has forced its own citizens into exile.

CO: Robert Mugabe was two years ago ousted as the leader of his party, and he passed away in Singapore. Do you have optimism for Zimbabwe? Do you think it is now… can it be on a road to recovery?

BM: Not with the current leadership. They came in saying exactly the things that Mugabe said when he came in in 1980. And within months, they were back in the ways of Robert Mugabe. We've seen political space shrinking in the last couple of months. We have had at least about seven abductions in the last month or so where people are tortured — so absolutely not under them, no.

CO: Ms. Mtetwa, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

BM: OK. All right. Thank you. Bye.

CO: Goodnight.

CH: Beatrice Mtetwa is a Zimbabwean human rights lawyer who has defended opponents of the late Robert Mugabe. We reached her in Johannesburg, South Africa. Robert Mugabe has died at the age of 95.

[Music: Piano]

Bianca Andreescu wins

Guest: Andre Labelle

CH: Bianca Andreescu is on fire. Less than a year ago, the Canadian tennis star ranked 178th in the world. Tomorrow, she'll become the first Canadian to ever play a US Open final, against Serena Williams. Yesterday, Ms. Andreescu beat Swiss player Belinda Bencic — and after the match, ESPN's Pam Shriver asked the 19-year-old how she's pulled off her remarkable rise to the top.

SOUNDCLIP

BIANCA ANDREESCU: Don't ask me that. Cause I wouldn't know what to say. I think it's just all the hard work that I've been putting throughout the years. If someone told me a year ago that I'd be in the finals of the U.S. Open this year, I’d tell them you're crazy.

CH: Andre Labelle was watching that match. He's Bianca Andreescu's former coach — and he'll be at tomorrow's Final match in Flushing Meadows Park in New York. We reached him in Montreal.

CO: Andre, as you hear Bianca, who says she can't believe she's going to be in the U.S. Open Final tomorrow, can you believe it?

ANDRE LABELLE: Oh my God, it's incredible. I mean you know she's had an incredible journey this year with lots of win and breakthrough victories against top-level players. I think now she's at 6-10 — six wins over top-10 players. Wins Rogers Cup. And I think this girl is full of confidence. She has an incredible capacity to adjust and adapt. She has a game that bothers players.

CO: [laughs] What is it that bothers them?

AL: She plays like a man. She doesn't play like typical womens’ game, where you would have a great majority of women playing like last night, Belinda Bencic. Where playing early through the court with very little variation — with serving, staying back, and that's it. And Bianca I think over the years you know we’d talk about her you know going to change a little bit of womens’ tennis. And I think that's what people across the tennis sphere I mean the experts you know from people in the broadcast booth you know are raving about how she's competing, playing with variations, bringing girls to the net with fantastic drop shots, intercepting very quickly to the net, making swing volleys, changing the pace, opening of the court, using her backhand slice.

CO: And also you mentioned something else that is I understand is her ability to climb out of a hole. I mean no matter what's going on, you just can't underestimate her. And we saw that in the match last night, when she was down in the second set against Belinda Bencic 5-2. And then foof! There she is to victory. That's her style, isn't it?

AL: Yeah, I mean it's incredible because even before professional tennis you know in the junior rank I mean she was like this too. And she plays her best when her back is against the wall, which is crazy. Like you know she had a great first set yesterday. It was very close, you know? And she had a really good tiebreak. And then she kind of lost a little bit of her concentration, which she tends to do a little bit in her matches. And then down 4-1, 5-2, you know? Like at 5-2 I said okay, let me go for a shower, and I'll come back for the third set. [CO and AL laugh] And she breaks Bencic at 5-2, and I’l like okay, 5-3, let’s see! 5-4, 5-5, It’s incredible!

CO: Can you tell when she's losing her concentration when you watch her play?

AL: Yeah, she'll you know she gets frustrated. You'll see that she swings her racket a bit like you know she gets a bit agitated, I would say physically. And maybe she's hiding a little bit better now her facial expression that she may have had. I think she's improved even, you know? And this is the first time she's playing a grand slam. You know in the pro events like Rogers Cup, it takes five match to win over a week. And in a grand slam, you play over two weeks, and you have to win seven matches. It's great that she has a really great team around her — her physiotherapist, and a fitness trainer, and Sylvain, and her hitting partner. And it takes every people in her team you know has a really critical part in her success.

CO: Bianca really captured people's hearts during the Rogers Cup, during the summer, when Serena Williams couldn't play because of her back and the back spasms, and that incredible moment with the women when Bianca was just so dear to Serena Williams. And now tomorrow, in the U.S. Open, she is playing Serena Williams. What do you think that that re-encounter… I'm sure they haven't seen each other since. What do you think that means for Bianca?

AL: Well first, I was super impressed I mean just to see I mean for a 19-year-old you know go to Serena in the final after she had default you know and see how she acted it out with her you know like you could actually be quite intimidated. You know as a 19 year old going to Serena — you know the greatest of all time — and then speak to her. And she was on her knees, you know, and really consoling her. She got a lot of respect I think from Serena. I think that since that moment, that Serena has been very kind to Bianca. And I think both players are going to be looking for a fantastic Finals, lot of respect, and either one of them is going to make history. Because Bianca winning the U.S. Open will be a history for Canadian tennis, and for herself, winning her first grand slam. And then for Serena, possibly you know getting that 24th grand slam she's been searching for.

CO: Andre, it's great to talk to you. And hearing the insight about how Bianca does it. Thank you so much.

AL: No problem. Bye.

CO: Bye.

CH: Andre Labelle coached Bianca Andreescu from 2015 to 2018. We reached him in Montreal.

[Music: Indie rock]

Maurice the Rooster

CH: Oh, Maurice had heard the criticism. That he was noisy. That he was prone to call out at any time. And that, like most four-year-olds, he kept weird hours. But Maurice knew he hadn't done anything wrong — so when his court date finally came, he faced the music. And now, his disgruntled neighbours will too. This week, a French court ruled in Maurice the Rooster's favour. The verdict comes after a retired couple, who own a holiday home near the bird, filed a noise complaint against the rooster for his early morning crowing. Maurice and his owner live on l’ile d'Oleron, off the Atlantic coast. And when news of the legal battle first broke, many people flocked to the bird's defence. A "Save Maurice" petition online got over 140,000 signatures. Other cockerel owners even protested outside the court. Now, Maurice's owner will be given over a thousand dollars in damages for her troubles. She's called the ruling, quote: "A victory for everyone in the same situation ... a precedent." Unquote. So far, no comment from Maurice. Nothing I can repeat on air, anyway. And to anyone looking to escape the city for the peace and quiet of country life — let this verdict be a wake-up call.

[Music: World music]

Part two: Diet Eman obit, squirrels research

Diet Eman obit

Guest: John Evans

CH: In 1941, Diet Eman was living in The Hague, in The Netherlands, working at a bank, and planning her future with her fiancé. Then the Nazis started targeting her friends and neighbours. And her vision for her immediate future changed: she joined the Resistance. Ms. Eman is credited with hiding hundreds of Jews. And while she was sent to a concentration camp herself — she survived. Diet Eman died this week in Grand Rapids, Michigan. She was 99. John Evans knew her well. He made a documentary about the Dutch Resistance called "The Reckoning". We reached John Evans in Allendale, Michigan.

CO: John, the story of this Dutch woman is extraordinary. How did you come to know her?

JOHN EVANS: Well, Diet and I first met while I was working on a project. It was actually a documentary during World War Two of the Dutch Resistance — people that were risking and hiding Jews during World War 2. And so she was referred to me, we got together, and before you knew it we were spending five weeks together in Europe. And she was very passionate about helping us tell the story that she was willing to go and walk through a lot of the same places that she had worked while she was in Europe.

CO: And this woman — Diet Eman — this is like so many people who joined the Resistance, it wasn't like something they thought they would ever be doing but suddenly find themselves involved in something that they must do, and risk their lives to do. How did she get involved? She was living in The Hague when the Nazis invaded. What got her involved?

JE: Well, you know after that when things hit us like this, the reality of a purpose in our life it usually comes with a large stroke. And that's certainly what happened with her on this. And I think what happened was she was a bank teller in The Hague when the war broke out. And her co-worker was Jewish. And you know as the weeks actually went on, Herman didn't show up. And so there was question about what happened, and then she realized that she had been taken. And so she and her fiancé Hein decided to engage in trying to help him. And then when they helped him, so many people started coming out of the woodwork that they actually were engaged and they put their wedding on pause.

CO: She and other people living in Holland — Christians — were watching the Jews rounded up by the tens of thousands — so many of them were murdered. But she was able to help save some of them. She didn't just hide Jews then she got quite involved with the Resistance. What things did she do that she probably risked her life to do?

JE: Well, as far as the other things, just the responsibility for finding places for them, but then also to support them. I mean they didn't just drop them off. So as far as falsifying identification cards, actually going in and doing a couple of robberies of some stations for four ration cards for food. That was a big part. She also did a lot of delivery. She used to hide papers inside of her handlebars on her bike. Or she'd hide them on her person somewhere. And the story of her arrest that happened May 4th of 1944 was that she had some papers — some falsified papers — underneath her sweater. And two German officials were approaching her and stopped her. And as they were about to talk with her, a third officer walked up. And he had on a jacket that had some new material, and that was a higher-end coat. Well, the two German officials that we're talking with Diet all of a sudden turned their attention, and they were talking about this other guy's jacket. Well, that gave Diet just enough time to pull the papers out from underneath their shirt and toss them behind a bush behind her.

CO: Wow!

JE: Then they turned around and then they looked at her I.D. and it was falsified, and they were able to tell that. So she was arrested for that, but she was not arrested for having all those stolen documents under her shirt.

CO: What happened to her after she was arrested?

JE: She went to a concentration camp, and it's called Vaught. And while she was in the camp, the toughest part for her was she was washing prisoners clothes, and she came across some clothes that look familiar that had bullet holes in them. And she was just waiting to notice if she saw Hein’s clothes coming in. She just felt extremely helpless. When you've got somebody like Diet, who's just got such a passion for justice and is willing to be on the front lines to be held back, is quite maddening. And it was tough for her.

CO: And what did happen to her fiancé?

JE: Hein was on as they would call them a mission, but they were caught. And he was taken to a concentration camp where he ultimately gave his life.

CO: He was able to send her one last message. Can you tell us about that?

JE: You know the incredible part of this is that they both knew what was at risk. They both knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. But for them to communicate one last time the way they did was amazing. And with what happened there was Hein was on a boxcar heading towards the German border. And he was probably about 200 miles away from The Hague, which is where Diet was. He wrote her a note on a small little piece of paper with a pencil. And it was reassuring that he was sure that they're not going to see each other again this side of heaven. And that are never going to be sorry for the stand they took. And that out of all the women, he's loved her most. He folded it up, and he put it between the slats of the boxcar, and it just hit the ground and rolled around a bit. And to think that that would ever find her is just incredible.

CO: When she moved to the United States she did marry someone else, but this was really the love of her life, wasn't it?

JE: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. When she passed, we're all around the bed, and we just thought she's with Hein.

CO: She was reluctant to tell her story. When shed moved to the United States, she wanted to leave it all behind. How did you persuade her to allow you to make the documentary?

JE: You know when we go through things in life, we can either try to escape them just to get away from the unpleasantness of whatever it might be, or we can stop and soak in it for a moment and see what our place is in it. I think we all have stories to tell, our lives are a story, and I personally don't believe there are ours to hold onto. I think they're ours to share because there's so much wisdom and value that can come from them from the good and the bad. And when Diet and I were we're talking, as far as not just her telling the story but going on the road and going back to these very locations, she realized with me as well that this is a story that we can't keep to ourselves. She sees the importance of it. This isn't the Diet Eman story. It's the story of what happened, and the reality of what we might be called to.

CO: Well John, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, this extraordinary woman. But thank you so much for telling this about her.

JE: You're welcome. Thanks, Carol.

CH: John Evans made the documentary "The Reckoning", about the Dutch Resistance. Diet Eman, who was part of that resistance, has died. She was 99. And we have more about her life on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Sombre]

I love oil t-shirt

CH: While visiting Ottawa this week, William Casey decided to take a tour of the Senate of Canada. He may have been concerned it would be dull. It wasn't. Mr. Casey is an oil and gas executive from Calgary. And security took issue with his t-shirt — which says "I love Canadian oil and gas" — because they say political messages are banned. But Mr. Casey doesn't think his shirt — which comes from a pro-oil and gas organization called Canada Action — should be considered political. He told Calgary's afternoon show "The Homestretch" what happened.

SOUNDCLIP

WILLIAM CASEY: It’s a black t-shirt that says I heart Canada oil plus gas. And basically, it says the world needs more Canadian energy on the back. So I asked him I said well, there's nothing offensive here. It says I love Canada oil and gas, there's no political message, and he looked at me and said Sir, you have one of two options. You can either turn the shirt inside out, or you can leave. And I asked another clarifying point. And he said Sir, you have two options. Turn the shirt inside out, or you have to leave the premises. And I said well I want to see the Senate. So I took off my shirt, turned it inside out, and did the tour. And then we finished the tour, left the building, I put the shirt on the right way, and walked down to the House of Commons to do a tour there fully expecting it was going to be the same reception. And walked in there and nothing was said. And we flew back the next morning, at which point I put together the letter that now has seemed to gather some national attention.

JIM BROWN: So tell me about the letter. First of all, who did you address it to?

WC: So I sent it to the honorable prime minister, to the leader of the opposition, to several local MPs, and to the Alberta senators. And then I sent a copy on to our premier as well.

JB: And then I guess I don't know what you were anticipating, but the reaction was pretty fast and furious.

WC: Yeah, I wasn't anticipating this. I gotta say that. It was very quick response. I had a couple of the senators — Doug Black first — reaching out to me personally. I had Jason Kenney reaching out to me, saying that they didn't think that that was acceptable. And so what I can say to you is I was really appreciative of how quickly it was dealt with. The head of parliamentary security reached out to me personally. There's obviously the public notice that was published that they apologized for what had happened.

JB: So it was it was their head of parliamentary security who apologized?

WC: Yeah, I’ve forgotten his last name, and I apologize for that. But he reached out personally to me. And I really appreciate that. We talked for about five minutes, and he just said Sir, that never should have happened. And apologized for it happening, and assured me that going forward, that won't be happening.

CH: That was William Casey, an oil and gas executive, speaking with Jim Brown, guest host of "The Homestretch" in Calgary.

[Music: Indie rock]

Squirrel research

Guest: Kevin Tarvin

CH: There are more to grey squirrels than meets the eye, and it has to do with their ears. We tend to focus on their tails, of course. But behavioral ecologist Kevin Tarvin decided to find out more about their heads — specifically, just how tuned-in squirrels are to the world around them. And he discovered that, even when they're staring blankly into space — which is a lot of the time — they're paying close attention to what's going on above their heads. We reached Professor Kevin Tarvin in Oberlin, Ohio.

CO: Professor Tarvin, what led you to suspect there might be something more to squirrels when they get skittish?

KEVIN TARVIN: We had been interested in the way that some species listen in on the alarm calls of other species. And it's been really well-studied. But it dawned on us that maybe there's other kinds of information that's freely available, publicly available, and perhaps squirrels or other animals might listen in on that as well — especially information that might convey something about safety rather than about threat.

CO: When the birds are going nuts they know there's trouble and get out of there. But there are other messages that birds are communicating.

KT: That's right. Yeah, the nutty stuff is certainly good information. But when they're not being nutty, maybe that's pretty good information too — especially because sometimes the nutty ones that are given the alarm calls they may be wrong, but happy birds chattering comfortably for quite an extended time that might be really reliable information.

CO: So you have to tell our listeners about how you studied them. You had a researcher who had quite the job during the winter.

KT: She did. She did. Marie Lillie — who's the first author of the study — traveled around Oberlin, the town, and the campus on a bicycle. And on each handlebar, she had a big litter bucket that she used to carry her equipment. And this was during January and a little bit of February. And she would ride around until she found a squirrel. And after that, she would start to start what we called a trial, a playback experiment.

CO: OK, what did she do?

KT: Well, the first thing she did was wait for a minute after she set up her equipment to let the squirrel acclimate to her presence. Then she observed the squirrel’s vigilance behaviours. And this would involve whether they're foraging or preening or fleeing for instance or freezing — which is a common response. And also, the number of times that they look up to quickly scan their environment. These are sort of instantaneous behaviours. They last a split second, but you can see them up their heads up periodically. So she kind of the number of times that they looked up and measured the amount of time that they spent being vigilant. After 30 seconds of that, she played a call of a red-tailed hawk. And this was designed not to make the squirrels think that they were under imminent threat, but just picked them up to the idea that there's potentially a predator in the area, and that being self-vigilant is a good idea.

CO: Okay, that got their attention.

KT: Yeah, indeed it did.

CO: How did they respond when they heard that?

KT: You know a lot of them froze instantly, and just stopped moving. And sometimes this might be for five seconds or even three seconds. But sometimes it was for a full minute. And I think at least one squirrels a frozen for the entire trial. They pay attention to that kind of information.

CO: So that didn't come as a big surprise to you. How did you test the idea that maybe when there's not an imminent threat that there's something else that they could learn?

KT: After Marie played that hawk call, she played one of two treatment playback recordings. And on one of those recordings, it was a mixture of birds giving what we call chatter. Individual birds give contact calls to each other that say hey, I'm here. Are you still around? Nothing really informative probably to squirrels, but a collection of multiple birds giving those sorts of contact calls simultaneously — plus other kinds of sounds like ruffling through the leaves and things like that. So one of these treatment playbacks involved three minutes of bird chatter, the other it involves three minutes of ambient noises that were recorded in the exact same place that we recorded the bird chatter, but at night when there were no birds.

CO: And how did the squirrel respond?

KT: Well, we found that squirrels were more vigilant during the ambient noise playbacks, and they also reduced their vigilance more rapidly when they were exposed to the chatter than when they were exposed to the ambient noise.

CO: Okay, is it like the idea of things are quiet, too quiet?

KT: I think it's more like wow, we just heard a hawk. But suddenly, there are a lot of birds that seem to think everything's okay. I think I'll put a little faith in what the birds had to say.

CO: So what do you conclude by all of this?

KT: I guess squirrels are a lot more attentive than I thought they were ahead of time. I figured they would pay attention to alarm calls. We reasoned that they might pay attention to this other kind of information, but we were pretty excited when we realized that they certainly were doing that. I think other things that come out of this is what you might call communication networks or public information networks are perhaps more important than we realized in ecological communities.

CO: How surprising is this for you, really? I mean you think that if you are a squirrel, you'd be paying attention to birds very closely. I mean they do quite literally have a bird's eye view, don't they?

KT: I guess I'm not surprised that the squirrels do this. And it made sense to us. But you know the cool part about science is you get those neat ideas, and then you test them to figure out if it really is the truth. It's certainly possible that squirrels may not have paid attention to this kind of information. For instance, some of the birds that were making the chatter noises on our recordings may not be susceptible to some of the same predators that the squirrels are. So maybe the information is not so reliable if the eavesdropper is a different kind of species then the noisemakers. On the one hand, it seemed obvious they would pay attention. I certainly do when I go in the woods. I hear everything get silent you know I'm looking for the bears. But it's also possible that the benefits that it provides may be outweighed by the costs.

CO: Do you think you can with further research — and by freezing to death your poor student researcher — [KT chuckles] you might find out if there are specific birds that are more reliable for the squirrels than others?

KT: Absolutely, and we suspect that's the case for alarm calls. For instance, a species tufted tit mouse tend to move around in small flocks, and they are noisy, and they are attentive, and they are quick to get their ire up. We kind of think of them as public informants. That's a great species to eavesdrop on.

CO: [chuckles] All right. Professor Tarvin, thank you. And give thanks to your researcher.

KT: Yes, I'm going to give thanks, and a nice winter coat for the next project.

CO: [chuckles] Okay. Bye-bye.

KT: Bye-bye. Thank you.

CH: Kevin Tarvin is a behavioral ecologist from Oberlin College. His study on grey squirrels was published this week in PLOS One. We reached him in Oberlin, Ohio.

[Music: Folk]

PEI storm wedding

CH: Rebecca Dawson and her fiance, Nick van Ouwerkerk had a stormy start to their life together as a married couple. But they're taking it in stride. The PEI couple was supposed to get married tomorrow at Ms. Dawson's family cottage, on the shores of the Northumberland Strait. At the same time that whatever's left of Hurricane Dorian is set to blow through the area. So they were forced to move the wedding to today. CBC's “Maritime Noon” spoke to the bride-to-be about dealing with some turbulent wedding planning.

SOUNDCLIP

REBECCA DAWSON: So two weeks ago, it was supposed to rain pretty heavily, which was a little bit disappointing. But it was a two-week weather forecast, so it could be promising. So from there, we kept watching. And then I thought oh, it can't get any worse than it was when it was pouring rain. And then we woke up Wednesday morning to 100 km winds and torrential downpours and a hurricane. So it did get worse. But that's okay, because we’ve switched it now.

BOB MURPHY: Yeah, so tell me a little bit about the process of just switching such a big event with such little notice?

RD: Sure. So my original caterer messaged me that his staff weren't comfortable coming out on Saturday, and this was yesterday morning. And then from there, we had the idea to switch it because we're also waiting to hear back from our tent supplier whether or not they could set it up. And we kind of looked at each other — my fiance and I — and went why not just get married on Friday? And so we started making calls. We called our parents. We called some other vendors, our hair, makeup, our dog kennel provider because we have two dogs. Pretty much by 11:00 a.m. we knew we were gonna be switching to Friday. So we started a little bit of a phone tree where my fiance's parents got in touch with both his family, and my mom helped contact all of my family. There's a lot of texts threads going out. I'm pretty sure everyone heard at least twice based on just the PEI gossip going around. One of my friends didn't even hear it from me. A girl she works with went oh, Becca’s changing her wedding. And she hadn't even heard it from any one of us yet. So it's pretty easy to get the word out over here.

BM: Yeah, that's one of the benefits of being in a small place. So the tent is up, you're good with that. What about the food? Has that been much of a challenge?

RD: So that was probably the biggest challenge because our caterer couldn't move to the Friday. So my mom's friend was actually doing a little bit of catering down at the cottage in between the wedding and the reception initially. And I called her yesterday, and she's pretty much taken on the task of our caterer today — which is a lot — and my sister-in-law, who manages the restaurant. Everyone's kind of pitching in to make it work.

BM: A whirlwind before the hurricane arrives I guess is what it’s been?

RD: Big time. Exactly.

BM: Have a great time this evening, and congratulations.

RD: Thank you, Bob. Have a great day.

CH: That's Rebecca Dawson speaking to CBC's Bob Murphy today. Ms. Dawson and her fiance, Nick van Ouwerkerk, were supposed to get married tomorrow — but moved up the festivities to today, to avoid the arrival of whatever remains of Hurricane Dorian.

[Music: Electronica]

Part three: Dalhousie report, sunken car found, cinema heart attack rescue

Dalhousie report

Guest: Afua Cooper

CH: Dalhousie students are all hoping for a bright future. But the university itself has a dark past. A new report delves into that troubling history. And that of its founder — George Ramsay, the ninth Earl of Dalhousie — a racist, who had ties to the slave trade. Afua Cooper is a professor of history at Dalhousie University. She's also the chair of the Lord Dalhousie Scholarly Panel on Slavery and Race. We reached Ms. Cooper in Halifax

CO: Professor Cooper, how troubling is Lord Dalhousie is past?

AFUA COOPER: I mean there is no other way to say it. He was a racist with respect to the black community. When he came here in 1816 to take up his role as Lieutenant Governor, around the same time we had about 3,000 black refugees coming into the province of Nova Scotia from the United States because they had supported the British during the 1812 war. However, Lord Dalhousie did not want them in Nova Scotia. He saw the province as a white man's colony, and he wanted them out. And when he was unsuccessful in his attempts to get them out of the province, he basically allowed many of them to starve — because the British had promised him rations and food and support after the war. And Lord Dalhousie had felt that you know after a six months they shouldn’t rations anymore — even though even though that directive was coming from the Crown in London.

CO: We're talking this is George Ramsey, who was the ninth Earl of Dalhousie.

AC: George Ramsey, the night Earl of Dalhousie, yes.

CO: And he was Lieutenant Governor, so his job was to support those black refugees of the War of 1812 — because they had been loyal to Britain. Some of the remarks he made are quite striking, aren’t they? He said in a letter that they were slaves by habit and by education is one of them. And he wanted to send them back to the United States to their owners.

AC: To their owners. I mean it's really bizarre, but at the same time, you've read the letter to his superior Lord Bathurst. And the cutting of the rations for me was just incredible because we have a situation where these people are strangers in a strange land — where they are picked in the kind of support that were given to the disbanded soldiers, to the Chelsea pensioners, to people coming from Britain and Newfoundland. Ramsey and others saw them as a kind of reserve army of labour for white farmers.

CO: This report is very revealing, very troubling, but it's a legacy, isn't it? The racism in Nova Scotia you're drawing the line to what goes on politically and socially in Nova Scotia now to those roots, those origins aren't you in this report?

AC: Yeah, exactly, exactly. As I put the finishing touches on the report, the street chicks report had just come out in Halifax, and that was what was engaging the attention of the city, everybody. And what we see this what we now call anti-black racism today with respect to policing and street checks. In Ontario you call it carding going back to 200 years and beyond.

CO: And you also while you were working on this report, of course, Dalhousie University is named after Lord Dalhousie. He was the founder of it. But you could see the evidence of anti-black racism on campus during the time when you were preparing this report, didn't you?

AC: Yeah, all the time. We had anti-black graffiti sprawled. You know almost every day I’d receive a phone call, Dr. Cooper, come and see the graffiti. Or students were routinely stopped on campus — black students and other students of colour — and off campus. So it was there all the time. It was the all the time. And I think, for me, it wasn't just an intellectual exercise where I chaired a panel and then you know wrote this report. It was also a very personal thing for me because I inhabit this black body, and I have to walk through this space. That is Dalhousie University, that is Halifax, that is Nova Scotia, that is Canada. I have to walk through this space as a black woman embodied in this black skin. And you know take in all of the anti-black racism that's out there in society. So in many ways for me it was also a hard thing to do because I had to deal with sometimes emotional and mental stress when you read some of these letters from George Ramsey. It's like oh my God, you know? Oh my God, had I been around that time, that's what I would have been confronted with.

CO: Now among the recommendations you make is asking for an apology — this is a quote — with the aim of fostering reconciliation between the university and the African Nova Scotia community. You've got that apology. What does that mean for you?

AC: Well, you know last night when President Teresa Balser made the apology, I got goosebumps. Because just to hear it — just to hear someone who represents this institution, this power acknowledge that the founder of this institution was a racist, and did harm to the black community, and for the university pledging to do better in the future, and actually have rolled out a number of initiatives which showed that there is serious. I was overwhelmed actually. I really was overwhelmed.

CO: One of the things you revealed in that report is that Dalhousie University was actually founded from indirect proceeds of the slave trade. And we also know — and you've talked about this as well elsewhere — that the McGill University — James McGill, the founder of that university — was actually a slave owner.

AC: A slave owner and he also sold slaves.

CO: And profited from that, and had his money flowed from that. So you've said that slavery in Canada is our best kept secret. At what point do you think Canada needs to acknowledge its history of association with slavery?

CO: I used to be asking people at the federal level — people in the upper echelons — to apologize for slavery. I never got that. But I tell you last night when Teresa Balser made that apology, and it went around the world, so to speak, it had an impact. So for this to be widely acknowledged in Canada it has to come from someone with power at the national level, who is either the prime minister or the Governor-General.

CO: All right. The word is out there for that. Professor Cooper, I really appreciate speaking with you thank you.

AC: Thank you You're most welcome.

CH: Afua Cooper is a professor of history at Dalhousie University. She's also the chair of the Lord Dalhousie Scholarly Panel on Slavery and Race. We reached her in Halifax.

[Music: Folk]

Sunken car found

Guest: George Farris

CH: In 1992, George Farris' mother Janet was driving to a wedding in Alberta. She never made it. And the family never heard from Janet Farris again. They spent the last 27 years not knowing what had happened to her. Now, they have some answers — after a discovery at a lake in British Columbia. And that discovery wouldn't have happened without the help of a 13-year-old boy. We reached George Farris in Mill Bay, on Vancouver Island.

CO: George, when the RCMP showed up at your door last month, what did you make of that?

GEORGE FARRIS: Well, [laughing] I was a little taken aback to begin with. They showed up with a member of victim services, of course, my immediate thought was oh boy, who's been injured or died? But then he informed me that they had possibly found the car that mom was in.

CO: And the car that mom was in that she disappeared 27 years ago. What did they tell you? What did you learn in that session?

GF: Well, not a lot. I don't think they had the full story, or if they did, they weren't coming forth with it. But he just mentioned that there was a young lad on a lake who had been in a boat and had seen the car and told his mom and his mom had phoned the RCMP.

CO: You mentioned that the lad. This is the extraordinary part of the story, isn't it? That this young fellow — this 13-year-old boy Max Wawrinka — who played the role in actually finding the car. What have you learned since about what he did?

GF: Well, what I learned sense was that he was actually looking for a different vehicle. Apparently, there had been a van that had gone into the lake years ago. And he was looking for that vehicle, which is when he came across mum's car.

CO: Tell us about what he saw and how he found it?

GF: Well, you know I'm sort of going second-hand here too with the story that I heard from Bob Keating — one of your associates — that he had seen the underneath of the car, and they had called the RCMP, and the RCMP had come out and said they couldn't actually see the car. So he from what I understand drove down and took a picture or video of it with his GoPro camera.

CO: Wow! Because when they went back out in the water the car that he was thought he had seen no one could find it — until he when he went himself in the water with the GoPro.

GF: Yes.

CO: And this is Griffin Lake, near Riverstone, B.C. What was your mom doing the day that she went missing?

GF: She'd left White Rock that morning, and she was on her way to family wedding in Innisville, and she had driven that road a number of times.

CO: And you were 35 at the time, right?

GF: Yes.

CO: What did what did they do? Was there a search for your mom?

GF: Yes. Well, we contacted the RCMP, and they found a visa receipt, which was presumably for fuel at the Tappan Esso service, just outside a Salmon Arm. They flagged the card, but there was no activity after that. And they had told us — the RCMP had told us — that they would fly the highway with the helicopter. But the weather was poor at the time. They couldn't actually get off the ground for about a week after that. But, of course, they did. And that came up negative as well.

CO: but when you're someone that dear to you — your mother — disappears without a trace, it must have been quite traumatic for your family?

GF: I can say it's not something that I would want anybody else to go through. You know we went through things in our minds. Especially when you know you've got quiet time or you’re laying in bed at night and you go through the… you know you imagine what may have happened. There were some pretty dark thoughts at that time — because we didn't know. We didn't know whether somebody had you know coerced her or asked her for a ride at the gas station or along the road or you know. So that wasn't pleasant.

CO: What were your theories at the time of what happened to her?

GF: Well, I think most of us — myself included, my brother, and most of the family — we sort of settled on the fact that we thought she had fallen asleep and gone into one of the lakes.

CO: You mentioned Bob Keating — the CBC reporter — he talked to the RCMP. And they seem to think that because the car has no collision damage or anything that she went into the lake without hitting anything, and may have been she was swerving to avoid an animal.

GF: Well, I spoke with the coroner; the coroner phoned me. They had done an autopsy, and they didn't find any notice of noticeable trauma to the remains. And as you say the car was in reasonable shape. He suggested that likely she either had a medical event or she fell asleep or possibly, yeah, she tried to avoid something on the road.

CO: And now, you were able to recover her remains? What will you able to do? I mean you've not been able to ever… to bury your mum. So what does this mean for you?

GF: They've sent the remains to a funeral home in Revelstoke, and we've asked them to cremate the remains and then send them back here. They have got, so there is a plaque there right now. But we’ll actually have something to put in it.

CO: Well, George, I'm glad that you are finally able to solve this mystery that must have been plaguing your family for all these years.

GF: Yes, it comes back every once in a while. But you know over the years, it tends to fade into the background, and then you know it'll pop back up. But it's nice now to have an end to the story.

CO: George, thanks for telling it to us.

GF: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

GF: Bye.

CH: That was George Farris, speaking about his mother Janet — who disappeared 27 years ago. We reached him on Vancouver Island. The RCMP have said that they're investigating the car, but there's no criminal activity suspected in the case.

[Music: Horns!]

Cinema heart attack rescue

Guest: Earl Kiley

CH: Earl Kiley and his partner recently went to see the Gerard Butler action movie Angel Has Fallen. And the BC man is very glad he went. Not because he liked the movie much, but because his trip to the cinema may have saved his life. We reached Earl Kiley in Sackville, Nova Scotia.

CO: Earl, how are you feeling now?

EARL KILEY: Really, really good.

CO: You had quite a scare, didn't you?

EK: I'm still you know still taking time to fathom it.

CO: Let’s go back to when you went to this movie. You were going to see the film Angel Has Fallen. Were you feeling okay when you got there?

EK: I wasn't really feeling too good all day. I felt a little bit under the weather. But I wasn't too sure what the problem was. It was pretty warm and humid that day, so I was a little bit tired, and it was kind of nice to get in out of the heat and get into the theatre. I really didn't sense anything like when I was in the theatre watching the movie, I just felt you know I'm in the movies. It wasn't that exciting. So it's kind of you know personally I usually do and it's not super exciting is I fall asleep. So I was kind of sleepy, so I was kind of siting back and just relaxing and then trying to enjoy what I could.

CO: It’s supposed to be an action movie.

EK: Yeah, I was waiting for the action to happen. I guess that it happened when I when I fell off my off my perch there.

CO: I know you don't remember exactly what happened next, but what does your partner Janet say happened?

EK: She just noticed me kind of you know slowly falling asleep, and then all of a sudden I started to slump in my seat, gasping for air. After about the second gasp, she stood up, and she just basically just screamed out help, help, I need help over here, and it went from there. She said basically I think he's having a heart attack.

CO: Did they continue with the movie, or did that stop?

EK: Well, I don't know exactly how long, but I think it stopped pretty quick. The lights came on, and all kind of pandemonium struck. People were coming down trying to help, and you know they were just a lot of people and a lot of commotion at that point. And the lights were on, and staff staffers starting to come down apparently towards where I was.

CO: What did they do? Who actually was able to volunteer to help?

EK: Well, I guess you know there was a group of quite a few people there, and someone piped up hi, I'm a doctor, you know I'll take care of things. And the doctor came down, and there were two nurses, and they said yes, you know we're nurses, we’ll come in and help out in the situation. Like I said, I had nothing to do with it as far as I was concerned I didn't see nothing, right? So basically it didn't take too much more than probably a minute before you know you had the situation under control as far as who is going to do what you know at the time.

CO: Okay, so what were they able to perform? What did they administer to you at that point? The doctor and two nurses what were they able to do?

EK: Basically, they administered CPR. He must've did a good job because my chest was sore for three or four days after.

CO: There was a defibrillator available, right?

EK: Yeah, apparently there was. So the doctor and the doctor and two nurses basically administered CPR for 15 minutes before the defibrillator was used.

CO: Wow! That's a long time.

EK: Yeah. So he was pumping like a madman. And God bless him for that.

CO: Your partner Janet said elsewhere that she feared she was going to lose you that day — that there was no pulse at some point.

EK: Yes. Well, my heart basically stopped beating. It wasn't pumping blood. It was in fibrillation. So there was no real pulse, per say. Like you could feel it, but there's no pulse. But your heart still flutters when you go in that condition. But she had that fear. She was pretty upset.

CO: And at any point did you come to? Did you know what was going on?

EK: The only time I came to, the only thing I remember is someone with shiny glasses screaming at me Earl, Earl, wake up, wake up. And apparently that was the doctor.

CO: Wow! So you did come to, and see this doctor?

EK: In a hazy kind of way. That's the only recorded recollection I have of the whole incident. I don't remember going into the ambulance. I don't remember going to the hospital. You know, it was probably a good you know two or three hours before I could actually remember what happened or conscious of what's going on.

CO: Now, just going back to the decision to go and see the movie that day. If it hadn't been for that, what do you think would have happened to you?

EK: I know one thing it would probably have been a different story. I would have gone back to the cottage, and just you know even though I wasn't feeling well, I probably would have just you know sat back or whatever and just relaxed by myself, right? For some reason, that whole day I had decided not to go home. For some reason regardless of how corny the movie, or how much of a love story it was, I was going to the movies with Janet that night. Because usually if it’s not an action-packed movie, I don't usually like to go to movies.

CO: Well, that turned out to be the right decision, right?

EK: Yeah. It's weird because it was like a premonition. It was like it was I wasn't even double questioning myself if I was going to go or not. I just knew I was going to the movies with Janet, regardless of the movie.

CO: And that team of people who was at the movie that saved your life, are you in touch with them? Have you heard from them?

EK: No, and that's my quest. I'd like to like to thank them personally. But apparently, the doctor was visiting from Ontario. He didn't give anybody his phone number, but he took Janet’s number. I went back to the movie theatre asking for a refund — only joking — and asking if I could find the doctor’s number. So far, I haven't been able to get contact with him. That's kind of my question the next week or so.

CO: Well, maybe he's hearing this interview, and he can get in touch if he’s got Janet's number. But now are you going to go back and watch the rest of Angel Has Fallen?

EK: I don't know. I'm not too sure about that. But I'll tell you one thing, I was up there at the theatre, and they said I got a free pass, so that's a good thing. I feel bad for all the other people that left early and didn't get a free pass.

CO: The movie has I think one star, so maybe they're not regretting it.

EK: Yeah, well maybe that's what set me off. It was so boring that it put me into something.

CO: Oh dear!

EK: Yeah, I know.

CO: Anyways, Earl, I'm glad you're feeling okay. And thanks for speaking with us.

EK: Appreciate that.

CO: All right. Take care.

EK: Take care. Bye-bye.

CH: That was Earl Kiley in Sackville, Nova Scotia. If you'd like to see a picture of Mr. Kiley and his partner Janet, visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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September 06, 2019 episode transcript

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