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The AIH Transcript for October 06, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: All she wanted was to go home. As Ottawa announces compensation for the victims of Canada's notorious Sixties Scoop, we hear from the chief who still feels the pain of being cut off from her mother's love.

JD: The survivalist and the storm survivors. A New Jersey man is evicted from his home, but it's what he did with his emergency food collection that has earned him the gratitude of one Puerto Rican family.

CO: The ugly underside of pug pop-ups. The breed-themed social events have people in the UK wagging their tails. But the country's Veterinarians say the dogs themselves have suffered from their breeding.

JD Moments after police pulled him over, Patrick Harmon was fatally shot. Now, Utah officials say officers were justified in shooting the black man. His niece tells us what it means to lose her protector.

CO: The apple of her try, try and try. A Toronto woman drops her iPhone onto her downstairs neighbor's balcony, and then embarks on her rescue saga that earned her a Twitter following from far and wide.

JD: And… flushed with pride. After five decades in business, the creator of Texas's Toilet Seat Art Museum says he is ready to retire. And every piece in his 1,300 item collection has got to go. As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that's privy to some beautiful secrets.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Sixties Scoop settlement, Utah police shooting, toilet seat museum

Sixties Scoop settlement

Guest: Marcia Brown Martel

JD: It was an historic morning for the survivors of the Sixties Scoop. The Canadian Government announced an $800-million settlement for survivors of the policy that removed Indigenous children from their families. Each survivor will receive up to $50,000, and Ottawa will establish what the agreement calls a, quote, “reconciliation foundation.” At a news conference today, Carolyn Bennett, the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, said that the move will, quote, “begin to right the wrongs.” Marcia Brown Martel was the lead plaintiff in the Ontario case. We reached her in Ottawa, shortly after the announcement.

CO: Chief MarteI, I know you have been fighting for this day — for this settlement — for years. What was in your mind as you listen to Minister Carolyn Bennett make the announcement?

MARCIA BROWN MARTEL: I was actually thinking about the apology the Ontario Child and Family Services had given a day or two days prior. And I'm thinking oh my, this is going to change this country! And we get to be able to sit back, do what we normally do and help this all happen.

CO: Can you just tell us your own experiences as part of the Sixties Scoop. When were you taken away from your family, and what happened?

MBM: I was taken away. My language was used against me as a child. Because I didn't know any other language other than my Algonquin mother's language, I was labeled as mentally handicapped. That in itself just because I don't speak someone else's language to label me, of course, I didn't want to learn anybody else's language. I wanted to go home.

CO: How old were you then.

MBM: I was four-years-old, all I wanted was to go home.

CO: And where were you taken?

MBM: I was taken into the local town and the surrounding areas and into the middle of Ontario. And I had been fostered out in so many places, and all it did was prove to me nobody wanted me.

CO: So who ultimately raised you?

MBM: Foster parents, everybody raised me for a time. I don't have a belonging, and I didn't grow up with that sense of somebody in entirety loved me so much that they wouldn't look after me forever. I didn't have that. Before I became an adult, I was 17, and there were days when I was homeless too.

CO: And where was your mother all this time?

MBM: My biological mother lived in and the community of Beaverhouse Settlement, out in that remote location accessible by skidoo in the winter and by water. I asked her what happened? And she said someone told her about some clothes that she could go and get and it wasn't going to be much money. And she could go there and get these clothes. And she did that and she regretted doing that because after she went and got those low-priced clothing for herself and her children they took us — watch who's giving you things because bad stuff happens, and that's what my mother learned. And to hear it from my mother's mouth was absolutely heartbreaking.

CO: At what point in your life did you know that your experience — this story of what happened to you — played out thousands of times, tens of thousands of times with other children? When did you finally learn that this was part of a very large program of taking children away from their parents?

MBM: In 2002, I learned about the Sixties Scoop. And even when I was listening to the presentation from a Native Child and Family Services director, I was sitting and going I think that happened to me! It took me a month to comprehend that I was not alone. I thought I was entirely alone in this. And then I went and I asked how is this not going to happen in Canada anymore? Has anybody done something about this?

CO: Once you had that revelation and you made this decision that you were going to take this someplace, what's the journey been like to get to today?

MBM: It’s been hard. It’s been hard personally; it’s been hard for my community and those who have journeyed with me. People didn't know the history of our people and why this had happened. My community members did not know the Sixties Scoop. All they knew was that the children were gone.

CO: And we should point out we call it the Sixties Scoop, but it started in the 50s and went on until the 80s, didn't it?

MBM: Yes.

CO: But at the time when it was happening, families were broken, weren't they? They were disrupted because of the residential school system. Do you feel that there is enough strength enough healing has going on that they can resist? That they actually can protect themselves from this happening again?

MBM: Not only do they have an ability to say yes, others are going to support me in this now. Because as my mother stood watching her children be taken away, there was an officer there who had a gun. And my mother thought she was going to get shot. So she had back from trying to grab me and save me.

CO: This court-ordered settlement and this money — $800-million — to the survivors. What more has to be done? You said that the apology in Ontario is ringing in your ears. Do you want to hear one from Canada?

MBM: In time. I want to hear apologies once again in time. When action has been taken. When, indeed, the words are being fulfilled then I can accept an apology because I can't do that. It's not like I haven't been lied to before. It’s not like my people have not been lied to. I need action first, and then I can stand and say thank you, you have fulfilled your honourable words. I want to be able to say that one day. And I believe that day is coming. That is the hope of today.

CO: Chief Martel, I commend you for your efforts, and congratulate you on your victory. And I thank you for speaking with us.

MBM: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

MBM: Miigwech.

JD: Marcia Brown Martel is Chief of the Beaverhouse First Nation, and a survivor of the Sixties Scoop. We reached her this morning in Ottawa.

[Music: Piano]

Utah police shooting

Guest: Alisha Shaw

JD: When police pulled him over, he was riding his bicycle. Moments later, 50-year-old Patrick Harmon was shot dead by Salt Lake City Police. The shooting took place on August 13th. Police bodycam footage shows an officer shooting the black man three times as he turns and appears to be running or trying to run away. Officials now say the officers’ actions were justified, and they will not face charges in Mr. Harmon’s death. Alisha Shaw is Patrick Harmon's niece. She lives in St. Louis. And that is where we reached her.

CO: Ms. Shaw, what is your reaction when you learned that the police who shot your uncle won't be charged in his death?

ALISHA SHAW: I was devastated and angry.

CO: How did you learn?

AS: On social media.

CO: And what did you learn?

AS: That he was really just gunned down and it was justified. And that the officers would not be charged because they felt that it was necessary to do what they did.

CO: Your uncle was shot and killed in August of this year — August 13th. Can you, first of all, tell us why he was pulled over by police that night?

AS: He was stopped on a bicycle. And it was supposed to be because he didn't have a tail light on his bike. And it just all went down after that.

CO: And we should make sure that people know that he's a black man. We've seen pictures of him because we have the bodycam — the police bodycam — video of that. And he's riding a bike, he is wearing just a shirt and pants and he's got a backpack on him. You've seen the video. Can you describe what it shows?

AS: It shows them trying to apprehend him. And from the looks of it, looking at his face, he looked afraid and scared. He looked like he was crying. And he looked like he didn't want to go into custody with the officers. He looked as though he felt something was going to happen.

CO: But he’d only been stopped for this taillight. So how did it escalate? Why was it going to the point where he was going to be arrested?

AS: I don't know? I believe it was all really a power-trip. He didn't trust something about it. And I think that's why he wanted to just get away from it all. He wanted to run and just deal with it another time apparently. But I know that they said that he had an outstanding warrant.

CO: But he mentions that himself doesn't he? He tells them he has an outstanding warrant.

AS: Um hmm.

CO: So he's telling them that that he's dealing with that. How did police respond when he alerts them to that?

AS: It’s like the re-asked him are you aware of your warrant that you have? And it's like he's like putting his head down in his hands. And then he’s like please. I heard him actually say please, in the midst of saying something else while they was trying to get him to take his backpack off. And they get his backpack off and then he goes to try and put his hands behind his back. That's I guess he thought about it like I don’t want to go to jail. I don't want to deal with them.

CO: And then what did he do at that point?

AS: He tried to get away. I think one of the officers kind of stumbled a little. He stumbled a little as well. But then he goes to take a couple feet and run. One officer said I have him, and I think that's the one that shot the Taser. But then the other one had already made rounds of fire, so it was like he got hit with all of it at once.

CO: And the police were saying that your uncle said at that moment, this is coming from the district attorney's office, they said that your uncle said to the police I'll cut you, and then turned and faced the officers with a knife as he was running away. Is that what you can see on the video?

AS: No ma'am, I didn't see that. My uncle didn’t have no weapons. But one of the officers did say I'm going to shoot you.

CO: I'm so sorry, Alisha. When you see that video — when you watch that — it seems to contradict what the police said doesn't it?

AS: It does. That's why I don't understand how it was justified?

CO: What have police actually told your family about what happened to your uncle?

AS: They haven't told us anything, even when we were up there protesting. We didn’t speak to the chief and no one came out to talk to us at all. We just protested outside the police department. He was afraid of his life being taken, and it still was taken. And that’s what hurts the most is knowing he was alone, afraid and killed.

CO: It's been reported in the media that your uncle was living in a homeless shelter when he was killed. What kinds of what kinds of challenges was he dealing with?

AS: I'm uncertain because I assume was unaware that he was homeless. He had family here. He didn't have to be homeless. So that was new to me when I found it out, I didn't know that.

CO: When was the last time you saw your uncle?

AS: It was the summer of 2013, he was well and he looked good. He looked like he was on his feet and taking good care of himself. He was working because he had to be put back to work.

CO: Alisha, we're hearing that Salt Lake City police say they have taken de-escalation training. They give out de-escalation awards. They've been praised by other police forces. How does that square with what happened to your uncle?

AS: It doesn’t. If that’s their tactic of de-escalating, I really think they should shut their department down. You didn’t de-escalate anything. You didn’t save him. He could have been Maced, it could have been other options. But you didn’t even have to do that because he didn't give a fight. He was trying to get away from the officers. Their story just doesn't coincide with what the videos show.

CO: When you are able to watch that video just a few days ago I think, it wasn't as you who saw it. It was it was everyone — the public. You're getting a lot of people who are linking this to other things too Black Lives Matter, to Take a Knee, one Twitter writer says Patrick Harmon, your uncle, is the reason why your favourite NFL players are taking a knee.

AS: Yeah.

CO: How do you feel about that, and his death being part of those protests?

AS: I understand that’s why they take a knee. This country is not united at all. It’s built on racism. They just have a lot of them people in high places: judges, lawyers and police officers. I have two boys and this is what I have to get them prepared for and it's sad. I don't care how much you go to college or anything, you’ll still be considered and treated the way my uncle was treated.

CO: And how are you explaining the death of your uncle to those two boys?

AS: I just try to prepare them and talk to them about it. It's hard because I'm a woman trying to explain it to them. That's why I let them come up there with me and protest, so they saw first-hand.

CO: So your sons have seen the video?

AS: Yes.

CO: How old are they?

AS: My oldest is 14. My baby is only six months.

CO: And so your boys watched that?

AS: Yes.

CO: Alisha, I'm so sorry for your loss. And I appreciate that you would speak with us today. Thank you.

AS: You’re welcome. Thank you.

JD: Alisha Shaw is the niece of Patrick Harmon, a 50-year-old man who was fatally shot by Salt Lake City Police in August. Last week, officials ruled that the officers’ actions were justified. They will not be charged.

[Music: Ambient guitar]

Mini Update: Dirty Chinese Restaurant

JD: You may have heard her interview last week with Ontario MPP Soo Wong. She was one of a number of politicians speaking out against a video game that was created by Canadian developer Big-O-Tree Games. The game, which is called “Dirty Chinese Restaurant,” follows a chef as he chases cats and dogs with a meat cleaver and avoids immigration officials. Ms. Wong told us the video game was racist and full of stereotypes. At the time, Big-O-Tree Games defended it its work and called it, quote, satire and comedy influenced by the classic politically incorrect shows we grew up watching, such as: South Park, All in the Family, Sanford and Son, Family Guy, Simpsons and Chappelle's Show. We also listen to Jay-Z.” Unquote. Since then, the company has changed its tune. It will not be releasing the game, and in a statement yesterday, Big-O-Tree Games said, quote, “We would like to make a sincere and formal apology to the Chinese community and wish to assure them that this game was not created with an intentional interest of inflicting harm or malice against Chinese culture. We ask the press to please respect our privacy at this time, as we begin the task of removing all our content.” Unquote.

[Music: Rock]

Toilet seat museum

Guest: Barney Smith

JD: Around San Antonio, he's known as the “King of the Commode.” And it's a title that's been well-earned. 96-year-old Barney Smith is the owner of the world-famous Toilet Seat Art Museum. But now, Mr. Smith has decided it is time to part with his collection. We reached Barney Smith in San Antonio.

CO: Hello, Barney?

BARNEY SMITH: Hello there.

CO: How are you?

BS: So you’re the host of the show?

CO: I'm the host of the show.

BS: Oh good! I’m glad to talk to you about my toilet seat collection.

CO: But now Barney, why are you selling your collection?

BS: Because I'm 96-years-old, and I’m getting ready to leave this whole world.

CO: No!

BS: I've seen a lot of changes in my 96 years.

CO: You know and some of those changes are actually on toilet seat covers aren't they? That you painted.

BS: Oh yes, in fact, my wife and I’s — I've got a last anniversary that we celebrated on our 74^th wedding anniversary — I’ve got that on a toilet seat. That’s the last one that I put.

CO: What’s on that toilet seat?

BS: It's just me kissing her goodbye.

CO: On the toilet seat?

BS: On the toilet seat.

CO: Well, how many toilet seats do you have in your museum?

BS: 1,322.

CO: You've got on some of these… I've got pictures. You got license plate….

BS: I need a bottle of water to drink.

CO: All right… good idea.

WOMAN IN BACKGROUND: Did you hang up on her?

CO: [Sound: Laughter] No, no, I'm still here now.

BS: Now I’ve got it on the speaker.

CO: OK Barney, I'm still here. Now you’ve got license plates, you got tributes to all the states and to Canadian provinces too.

BS: I’ve got five of the ones out of Canada the ones — the ones that I could get my hands on the license plates. I put them all with Alberta, Saskatchewan, British Columbia and I’ve got about a half-dozen of them.

CO: I think you got Manitoba too.

BS: I’ve got the Yukon.

CO: Yukon, right. And so you've got those on your toilet seats. But there's a really weird one you got. It looks like a swarm of hornets and a hornets’ nest.

BS: Hornets’ Nest is the one that the yellow jacket did to little brown hornet and it stung me on top of her head. I said I’m going to put you on my toilet seat. So I put a wasps’ nest on the toilet seat.

CO: Now can anyone… I mean can anyone actually sit on these toilet seats and do their business?

BS: Can they do what?

CO: Can you sit on the toilet seat? Can you actually use one of these toilet seats?

BS: The hinges are taken off. You may fall through the toilet if you sit on a plaque. I call them plaques.

CO: Right.

BS: They’re made out of toilet seats, but they’ve got the hinges off.

CO: Barney, why toilet seats? I mean why not dinner plates or doors or something? Why are you painting on toilet seats?

BS: Because I’m a master plumber, retired.

CO: You were a plumber?

BS: I’m a genuine electrician, retired. I’m a minister, retired. And I'm so tired because I'm almost gone. I tell you, it won’t be long until I’m gone. I got to get rid of my toilet seat collection. I've got 1,322 toilet seats, and they're all catalogued. In fact, I've got the book right here in my hand now. Number one is my dog tags. Number 500 is “Dogs” that's the one that I was supposed to quit, but I didn’t. I’ve been in the doghouse ever since.

CO: You told your wife you're going to quit at 500?

BS: Yes. That's my “Dogs.”

BS: I’m hitting the button again! I am back on the speakerphone.

CO: OK.

BS: I’m going to lose you there. I can’t hold the telephone up to my ear without hitting a button or two. It’s a little, portable phone.

CO: Barney, I’m going to let you go. But just tell me what does it cost? What does someone have to come up with in order to buy your collection?

BS: I'm going to let that be whoever is interested in purchasing it.

CO: OK. Well, we'll see if anybody in Canada or one of our listeners wants 1000 toilet seats with your art on it.

BS: 1,322 toilet seats hanging in my museum.

CO: Exactly. All right, we'll tell everybody how they can see your toilet seats, Barney. And I hope you have many more years ahead of you, in spite of what you're saying. And it’s good to talk to you. Thanks.

BS: Well, I'm so glad to get to talk with you. I want you to come and see me. What part of Canada are you from?

CO: I'm in Toronto. I'm in Toronto

BS: Toronto.

CO: Yeah.

BS: We went to Toronto and went on the train. And we went right underneath the hotel, and got on the escalator, and right up in the lobby of Toronto that is the Queen Elizabeth is it?

CO: That's in Montreal. Anyway Barney, it's great to talk to you. And good luck with your museum.

BS: Alrighty. Thank you so much. Give me a call some time and see as things going.

CO: All right, we'll do that.

BS: Alrighty. Have a good time now.

CO: You too. Bye bye.

BS: Bye bye.

JD: We reached Barney Smith in San Antonio. I think you made a friend, Carol.

Part 2: Puerto Rico flood, dropped phone

Puerto Rico flood

Guest: Victoria Martinez-Barber

JD: Joseph Badame is a survivalist. He spent decades stockpiling his housein New Jersey with tons of supplies. Then his luck ran out, and he was being evicted, and he had to figure out what to do with all that stuff that he had gathered up over the years? And it was during his eviction sale that he found an answer: he met Victoria Martinez-Barber, a New Jersey woman with dozens of relatives in Puerto Rico. Where he had a surplus, she had a need, a big need, after Hurricane Maria. We reached Ms. Martinez-Barber in Medford.

CO: Victoria, how did you come to be at Joe Badame’s estate sale?

VICTORIA MARTINEZ-BARBER: So the company that was hosting his estate sale reached out to me because I own a food truck, to provide food and refreshments for the estate sale.

CO: And so what did you see when you got there?

VMB: Initially, I didn't really see anything. I was just working on the outside of the home. But after, Joseph came up to my truck and asked me about my family because he saw that I had a sign out there that said you know all of the proceeds from the food truck will go to Hurricane Maria. So he asked me about my family and he donated the first donation, which was $100.

CO: For people in Puerto Rico — you have family in Puerto Rico?

VMB: Yes. So afterwards, he told me well, there's food in the basement. And when you get the chance, you can go downstairs and look at it. And if you can haul it out of here then it's yours. So at that point, I hadn't really spoken to my family… Well, I hadn't spoken to my family at all since the hurricane touched down. I did know that they got a direct-hit from the hurricane. Immediately, I said that all of the proceeds from my food truck would go to helping my family. So when Joseph you know mentioned the food in the basement that I can have, I was thinking a pantry. But I was you know grateful for even just a can of beans. So when I went down there is when I was completely surprised and overjoyed at the amount of food that was there. Because it was really lifesaving — there were 70 barrels of non-perishable items that my family could have.

CO: 70 barrels. Describe what you saw in the basement?

VMB: So the basement was set up kind of like… it looked like a survival basement. So there were 70 barrels there, and each barrel weighed about over 300 pounds on average. And they had rice, and canned goods, and beans, and flour, and pancake mix and just a host of items that would not go bad for long-term storage. So it was like relief came over me because I realized that it was truly life-saving. So immediately, I started thinking how I was going to get all of the manpower to remove those barrels from the basement, onto my property and then start fund-raising in order to send the barrels to Puerto Rico?

CO: Did Joseph Badame explain to you why he had all these 70 barrels of food in his basement?

VMB: Yes, he calls himself a survivalist. And I would say he is. He was prepared for a catastrophe. And Joseph has had a lot of misfortune in his life. And his wife's family, while he and his wife were away in Tunisia for two years in the Peace Corps, when they returned, they returned to the Camden riots. So a lot of her family lost their homes. And since then, he wanted to prepare for something you know that he could help them because they weren’t prepared for themselves. So he started the 8,500 square-foot compound, I would call it, to have shelter for his family if they were ever in need again.

CO: And this was the house that the estate sale was all the contents in this house. He's leaving the house. Did he have another plan for what to do with all this food?

VMB: No, he did not. He was very depressed over losing the house, and especially the food. To see all the food go to waste, and that's when you know what I call it divine intervention, where he and I met.

CO: And how you get all that food to Puerto Rico?

VMB: The first shipment already went out today, and it was up to a private airline and it’s 40 barrels, so that's going today. And then the second shipment will go by boat, and that will be in about two to three weeks.

CO: How many people do you think it's going to feed?

VMB: Wow! I am confident to say that it's going to feed the entire town. We did touch base with a church out there to distribute it out of the church. And I'm going down there from October 11th to the 19^th, to help distribute more goods. So I would say that it's going to feed well over a hundred people I would say.

CO: Could you have imagined when you went to that estate sale to sell refreshments and maybe make a few hundred bucks that you were going to come with enough food to feed a village?

VMB: No, it gets me chills up because you know Joe and I live two minutes away from each other and I've never known this man. And now, I've known him for maybe two weeks now, and he's such a giving person. And he's losing his home and he's still giving. This is a miracle.

CO: What is going to happen to Joe Badame? He's been evicted, isn't he?

VMB: Yes, so his house has been foreclosed on. He did purchase a mobile home. And when we were talking about getting the food out of there, we started sharing…. it's almost like an instant connection. So we started sharing some of our life with each other. And I did ask him where would he go after you know the home foreclosed? He said he wasn't sure, that you know he did have a mobile home. And I said well, why didn't you park it on my property and just plug in and stay there forever? So he's with me now, and I think that we both provide each other something that that we need. He didn't have any children. And my father passed away when I was a young girl.

CO: Victoria, this is an amazing story.

VMB: Yes, it really truly is.

CO: I really appreciate talking to. And I wish you a lot of success with your food shipment. Thank you.

VMB: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye bye.

CO: Bye.

JD: We reached Victoria Martinez-Barber in Medford New Jersey. And if you'd like to see some photographs or share that interview, visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Jaunty piano]

From Our Archives: Pug cafes

JD: They're calling them “pug pop-ups.” Across the UK, new cafes, bars, social events are popping up. And they are all devoted to the flat-faced little doggies. A barista will gladly make you and your pooch a steaming-hot “puguchino,” or you can knock back a few “pugtails” with your kibble. But as these dog-themed events grow in popularity, so does pug ownership, which is why some vets in the UK are now poo-pooing pug pop-ups. Last fall, Carol spoke with Sean Wensley, the president of the British Veterinary Association. And he explained why prospective dog owners should perhaps think twice before buying flat-faced dog breeds like pugs. Here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

SEAN WENSLEY: The main problem is that the normal airway and airway structures have to fit into a much smaller, flattened space. So they're essentially squashed into that short nose and shortened skull. What that means is they airways are twisted and contorted. So when the dog is trying to breathe from the outside into their lungs, the air has to pass many obstacles. It's difficult for them to breathe. And anyone who has spent time around these dogs will recognize that they grunt and snort a lot when they're trying to sleep — their sleep is often disrupted. They’ll snore a lot as well. That makes it difficult for them to breathe. And we would liken it to us, as humans, having to spend our entire life breathing through a drinking straw. And you can imagine the impact on our quality of life that would have.

CO: Now, has this always been the case for these breeds? Or is it a lot of inbreeding or over-breeding that has created the major problems for them?

SW: Well, this is a man-made problem, and that's one of the main reasons we're so keen to raise awareness of it. Because we were deliberately breeding dogs for physical characteristics that we as humans find appealing like a flat face. But, importantly, that means that they’re preventable problems because if we could breed for healthier shapes instead, we’re going to have, in-turn, healthy, happy dogs that enjoy a good quality of life, which we feel strongly ought to be the case. We as the vet profession have a concurrent duty not only to help individual afflicted animals, but to raise awareness amongst dog owners and prospective dog owners that this is an important cause of animal suffering at a societal level. And one, importantly, that it is preventable. And we would actually strongly dissuade and discourage prospective dog owners from taking on these breeds to help improve animal welfare.

JD: From just a little under a year ago — September of last year — that is British Veterinary Association’s Sean Wensley, speaking with Carol. Veterinarians are concerned that a new craze for pug-themed social events will encourage people to buy more flat-faced dogs, breeds they say are prone to health problems.

[Music: Cultural]

Dropped phone

Guest: Liz Bertorelli

JD: It's happened to the best of us. You drop something, often we drop our phone, don't we? And it lands somewhere we really do not want it to land like in a hole, or the toilet. Often yes… or on your neighbor's balcony — the balcony below yours. And Liz Bertorelli is intimately familiar with that last scenario. For that is where her phone ended up on Tuesday eve. And what followed was a phone rescue saga that she tweeted out over the next two days, earning her a dedicated following that included Stephen Fry. We reached Liz Bertorelli in Toronto.

CO: Liz, what were you doing when you lost your phone?

LIZ BERTORELLI: I was cleaning up my apartment and then balcony, after I had a few friends over for dinner. Also had a couple of glasses of wine, not sure if that had anything to do with it? And it slipped out of the back pocket of my jeans, which is a very awful place to even have phone on the first place. But, unfortunately, jeans for women have the worst front pockets ever. You can’t fit an iPhone in there. So hopefully some fashion designer out there can reinvent jeans for us.

CO: OK. But you digress. So the phone slips out of your pocket and ends up where?

LB: It ended up on the third floor balcony of a neighbor I've never met.

CO: And what floor are you on?

LB: I'm on the fourth.

CO: OK, so just one floor down.

LB: Just one floor down. But it looks a lot higher than you think.

CO: But it could have been worse. It could have been down on the ground.

LB: For sure. It just happened to fall like pretty close to their, I'd say, sliding doors. So pretty deep into the balcony right below and I don't know how It managed to do that?

CO: And what time was this in the evening?

LB: Probably around like close to midnight.

CO: OK, so it's pretty easy. You go down and knock on your neighbor's door, right?

LB: Exactly. I mean I did it, but I was I felt bad because some people go to bed early.

CO: And what happened?

LB: No one was home. I figured they were sleeping. So I wrote a few love notes to get my phone back, and I left them behind.

CO: What did you do? Because the next day no neighbour, right?

LB: No neighbour. In the morning, I looked over the balcony. I had thrown down a note to the third floor to see if the neighbours had maybe like seen the phone and wanted to like give me a shout because I left my phone number on the note. But the note I actually left had blown away, and the note outside of their door was still there.

CO: So at what point did to launch “Operation Rescue?”

LB: I mean after I started to gain some traction on Twitter, I'm like you know what? This is a hilarious story. You know as much as I miss my phone, like let's make light of the situation. I personally love storytelling to begin with. So I mean I went to my full time job, so I actually left my phone home alone on that third floor balcony for like a good eight-hour day.

CO: Ouch! Terrible!

LB I know! And I kept checking I’m like I checked the weather forecast. My coworkers were all laughing about it too. So when I got home, it actually didn't rain all day. And I got home and started to rain, so I lured down a bag like one of those reusable ones that you would get from like Fresco or Metro or whatever, and placed it on top of the iPhone, so it wouldn't get completely destroyed because it was still working. I don't know how the iPhone was still turning on after 19 hours.

CO: But you were tweeting and sending out messages and getting responses from all over the place, right?

LB: Yeah, yeah, it’s crazy.

CO: What were people suggesting you do?

LB: I mean a lot of people were like go knock on their door! And I was like come on now. But yes, some people were like drawing diagrams of things I could use in my house. Like I took a picture of all the tall objects I owned and it was like someone build me something. I duct taped two brooms together to try and sweep the phones closer to the edge, where I could maybe drop something else on it to pick it up. But it was just hilarious. Like the internet is a funny place.

CO: So by night three, you were getting a bit desperate.

LB: I mean I wanted a resolution because I wanted a happy ending for everyone. Like at the end of the day, it is this like I'm super lucky to have a phone in the first place. And there are way worse things in life than losing your phone on a balcony. And it was just funny like and there's nothing you can do, right? The only thing you can do is like make contraptions and tweet about it at that point.

CO: How many contraptions did you make?

LB: Maybe through three or four. My final contraption ended up working and it was a miracle. I still cannot believe that worked.

CO: What did you do?

LB: So I had a drone, which broke. So I ended up taking all the wings off of it because I wanted to lure something down to the balcony to hopefully make contact with the phone. I found a beer coaster in my house; it's just like a cardboard cheap, little thing. I put it at the bottom of the drone, so it would have a flat surface to actually touch the glass of the iPhone. I wrapped that in packing tape, and then I put strings through the coaster, through the drone and up so we could create like a pulley system. And I used a corkscrew as a weight on top of the drone just to have leverage to drop it onto the phone. So the first attempt.. Well, I did like an Instagram Live of the first attempt. And we were trying to pick up like heavy, metal coasters that I had lying around the house. I tried to pick up like a phone case, all sorts of stuff. Didn't do so hot the first round. So I reinforced it with tape. Then, we went back to the balcony, ended up moving the phone really close to the edge I was like oh my god, it’s going to fall. It’s going to go through fall number two onto balcony number two and then I never get to see it again. But, luckily, second attempt with the new contraption worked. We lured it up. The iPhone was literally stuck to the tape, like half of it was and it managed to like make the flight up.

CO: And you filmed all of this?

LB: We filmed it, yeah.

CO: sent it out to the world.

LB: They needed to know.

CO: They did.

LB: You know?

CO: And how is your phone?

LB: My phone is… she's cracked.

CO: Oh, but she's alive?

LB: She's alive.

CO: And what about your neighbours? Did they ever come home?

LB: I checked this morning. So now I'm like they have to be on vacation! There's no way.

CO: Or you have another story.

LB: Or they've been hiding in their house, tweeting about me tweeting about them and we don't even know.

CO: This is chapter two.

LB: Chapter two.

CO: We'll be watching. Thanks Liz.

LB: No worries.

JD: That was Liz Bertorelli in Toronto. And if you would like to see some of the photographs and videos she posted while she was trying to rescue her phone, go to our website www.cbc.ca/aih.

Part 3: SCC: residential school, Nobel Peace Prize

Trump storm

Guest: Sheila Malcolmson

JD: Last night, the world was left wondering is there a storm coming? And if so, what kind of storm? Is there a storm even at all? While hosting top military brass and their families, U.S. president Donald Trump unexpectedly issued the following cryptic comments.

SOUNDCLIP

DONALD TRUMP: You guys know what this represents? Well, this is the calm before the storm.

REPORTER: What’s the storm?

DT: It could be the calm before the storm.

REPORTER: What storm, Mr. President?

DT: You’ll find out.

JD: OK, so that was a bit hard to hear. But that was the U.S. president last night, he referred to a dinner with top military brass as the, quote, “calm before the storm,” unquote. And he didn't offer any explanation. So CNN's Jim Acosta asked for some clarification from White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders at today's press briefing.

SOUNDCLIP

JIM ACOSTA: There's a theory in Washington, and forgive me if you've been asked about it before, the president strives to this madman theory that if he makes a lot of unsettling, off-putting comments that sort of throw people off that he wants to keep his adversaries guessing. That's sort of the point of making comments like calm before the storm and so-forth. What is your sense of that? Is there is there anything to that?

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS: I think the president has addressed this himself. He certainly doesn't want to lay out his game plan for our enemies. So if you're asking is the president trying to you know do that? Absolutely.

JA: He’s trying to throw people off?

SHS: I don't think that's a secret. I wouldn't say necessarily that he's trying to throw people off, but he's not trying to broadcast or telegraph his exact actions. I think we've seen what a failure it is when an administration does that. And this is a president who's going to do it differently and do it better.

JA: Just a quick follow up to that, but when people sort of catch their breath in this town, when they sort of hold their breath in this town when he says something like that. You’ve got a smile on your face. Is that somewhat satisfying?

SHS: No, I just picture people in this town actually holding their breath. That might be a welcome surprise for most of America.

REPORTER: Just one more thing I want pick up on what Margaret was trying to get I think is you. Let me put it to you this way, can you exclude the possibility that the president was actually just being mischievous? That he was messing with the press a little bit?

SHS: I wouldn't say that he's messing with the press. I think we have some serious world issues here. I think that North Korea, Iran both continue to be bad actors. And the president is somebody who's going to always look for ways to protect Americans, and he's not going to dictate what those actions may look like. I don't think there's anything beyond that that I can add up front.

JD: That was White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, being asked what U.S. President Donald Trump meant when he referred to last night's meeting with top military brass as a, quote, “calm before the storm.”

[Music: Electronica]

SCC: residential schools

Guest: Ry Moran

JD: The records are sensitive, they are detailed and they are intimate. And today, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that they can be destroyed. These records are accounts from some 38,000 survivors of the residential school system, who described their abuse in closed hearings. It was part of a compensation process. Some survivors now want those records erased to protect their privacy. Others argue that they must be preserved as part of this country's history. Among them, Ry Moran. Mr. Moran is the Director of the National Research Centre for Truth and Reconciliation at the University of Manitoba. We reached him in Winnipeg. And a warning: this interview contains some graphic descriptions of child abuse.

CO: Mr. Moran, the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that these records can be destroyed. What does that decision mean to you?

RY MORAN: This decision means that, as of this moment, we have lost the entirety of the record-set of the most extreme abuse inflicted upon Indigenous peoples in this country.

CO: And what does that mean that we've lost those records?

RM: Well, it means that from here on in, we've lost our ability now as a nation to understand the exact nature of the abuse in its full detail. So from here forward, we're going to be gleaning information in a somewhat patchwork manner in understanding the general trends — the general trajectories — of what happened in the residential schools. But we will have lost that full and comprehensive set of detail in terms of what occurred.

CO: But how is that possible? I mean you can go online and you can look at the website for the hearings that were held into the residential schools. And you can read extraordinary testimonies. And we've interviewed people who have told us of horrible abuse. That’s all there. What exactly is it that's missing?

RM: The oral history truly is the best record of the lived experience of the survivors in the schools. And we have yes, a large number of statements. But the oral history of survivors that was contained in those IEP records is the most detail level of record in regards to the abuse. What also is lost in this is all of the decisions that were rendered by the independent assessment process adjudicators. These are people that heard the stories of survivors and then administered a compensation program on behalf of the Crown and on behalf of the people of Canada, to properly address and rectify the harms that were inflicted upon these kids. And that record has definitely been lost in this scenario.

CO: This is for 38,000 people, who were describing what the courts have acknowledged as being the most humiliating things that children could ever go through. From the monstrous to the humiliating, harms ranging from devastating to debilitating. And just as a warning to people before I read this part, they describe harms ranging from fondling and kissing, repeated anal or vaginal penetration with objects that resulted in nightmares, anxiety, personality disorders and suicidal tendencies. That's what this group went through. And these are the ones who gave these details, in order to access the compensation that would come with the kind of trauma they were describing. So really, really extraordinary material that a lot of people would not want others to read. Is that not understandable?

RM: Absolutely. And a really important question here, Carol, is who bears the shame? And the sad part is many survivors still carry that shame. And they shouldn't because they did nothing wrong. They were children that were subjected to an inhumane and immoral institution that was absolutely trying to kill the Indian inside of them. So we as a nation need to carry that in shame. And that's where this record is so unbelievably sensitive, but powerful in terms of illustrating just how deep the wounds are that have been inflicted upon these kids.

CO: But if you or I had that kind of a history, and we had told a psychiatrist, we would not want that public. I wouldn't. Would you?

RM: No, the question here has never been about whether or not this was going to be public or not. You know we live in a society that routinely redacts records, or blacks out personal information. The personal information could have been stripped from these records. Absolutely, there's lots of ways and means that is possible.

CO: So, these records will be held for 15 years, during which time survivors can choose individually to have their own record preserved. And if not, they will be destroyed after that point. So are you going to try to persuade people to opt in — to have their records preserved?

RM: I think we have to approach this on a basis of rights. Indigenous peoples have the right to preserve and transmit their history — our history — to future generations. And, sadly, as we sat with our survivors circle and our governing Circle this morning and we talked about the implications of this case and how everybody was feeling about it. You know my very close friend told me that you know he's going to the funeral of a residential school survivor this afternoon at 2:00 o'clock. That's one person that has not been afforded the right to transmit their information to the future.

CO: Is there a danger if we don't have a detailed and complete record, including what's happened to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. But, in addition, these records. That someone like for instance we saw Senator Lynn Beyak, who was putting a gloss on the residential school system, saying that good deeds were done there. Is there a risk that revisionist history steps in if we don't have enough records?

RM: You know, Carol, earlier in the interview here, you read out that kind of list of harms. And the list of harms is absolutely horrific. It should horrify us as a country to know what was inflicted upon these kids. And we continue to live in a society that continues to undermine and undervalue Indigenous peoples and Indigenous rights because people still just don't understand what it is that we have collectively lived through. Part of the whole healing work that we're doing is the recognition that we need the truth. That's why we had a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And what that fundamentally acknowledges is that if we try to reconcile without the truth, we will be very at risk of making the same mistakes again and walking blindly into the future.

CO: I guess what I'm asking you is is there a danger of those who will willfully try to revise this history to establish a revisionist version of it.

RM: Absolutely. We see it happening right now. And I think we see that happening on a global basis as well. I mean there are people that deny the fact that the Holocaust occurred. This is common practice. Human beings have a difficult time understanding just how poorly we can treat one another. And the proof is always important. And the detail is always important. And being able to say without a doubt that no, what occurred here were crimes, were inhumane and being able to very conclusively show that to people it is at the heart of this healing work.

CO: We'll leave it there. Mr. Moran, thank you.

RM: Thank you.

JD: Ry Moran is the Director of the National Research Centre for Truth and Reconciliation at the University of Manitoba. We reached him in Winnipeg.

[Music: Classic rock]

From Our Archives: Cherif Bassiouni

JD: Cherif Bassiouni was a lot of things: He was an academic, a diplomat and a war crimes investigator. But the Egyptian-American law professor’s greatest legacy perhaps was his contribution to the international criminal justice system. He helped to found both the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, and the International Criminal Court. And he did not shy away from criticizing the institutions that he had fought to create, even delivering stinging criticism when they became too bureaucratic, or when their independence was put at risk. Cherif Bassiouni died last week at his home in Chicago. He was 79-years-old. He spoke to As It Happens in April of 2007, about a scandal involving abuses in Afghan prisons. From our archives, here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

CERIF BASSIOUNI: The main prison in Afghanistan is called Pul-e-Charkhi, and it was built by the USSR when it occupied Afghanistan. It's a huge concrete block. It's a terrible prison. It has no sanitary facilities, no toilets, no showers, very little area for moving people. The conditions as I found them when I was the U.N. independent experts for human rights in Afghanistan are really below the United Nations’ standards on treatment of prisoners. But what the U.S. has done is it has separated a portion of that prison, which remains under the nominal control of the Ministry of Justice, but is in effect run by the Ministry of Interior. It has separated a portion of it to be under the control of what is commonly called the secret police or the national security police. Basically, nobody knows what happens in this area. There are very serious allegations of torture going on. The judiciary has no power over it. It's another one of those black holes, over which nobody has any judicial control except those in the Afghan secret police and those either within the U.S. military or military intelligence or the CIA, who work with the secret police.

CO: Canada has also struck a deal or an agreement with the Afghan International Human Rights Commission believing it will have access to those prisoners and be able to verify their condition. Do you know anything about that? Do you know if the commission could be effective in that way?

CB I know the commission very well, they're extremely dedicated and well-meaning people. But they have absolutely no authority. Believe me, there is no way they're going to give access, except when they're going to play the shell game. When they're going to say all right, come on in, and you know we'll show you this part of the prison. And it'll be you know freshly-painted and looks very nice. And they'll put flowers in the rooms and you know put a few people with new clothes on. And you go in and you see them and you say oh, everything is wonderful! And you don't realize that you know most of the people are not there, or they will cause people in saying you know what? If you don't tell the representatives of the Canadians that you're well-treated, we're going to torture you afterwards. So what choice do they have?

CO: Professor Bassiouni, I want to thank you very much for speaking with us.

CB: Thank you.

CO: Bye bye.

CB: Bye.

JD: From archives, that was war crimes investigator and expert Cherif Bassiouni, in conversation with Carroll in 2007. Mr. Bassiouni died last week. He was 79-years-old.

[Music: Spanish guitar]

Nobel Peace Prize

Guest: Beatrice Fihn

JD: Today, an advocacy group that you likely have not heard of joined a pretty exclusive club. A club that includes members like: Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa and Lester B. Pearson. The International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons was named the winner of the 2017 Nobel Peace Prize. The organization, which is also known as ICAN, was behind a recent UN treaty to prohibit nuclear weapons that was signed by 53 different countries. Beatrice Fihn is the organization's executive director. We reached her in Geneva.

CO: Ms. Fihn, congratulations on winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

BEATRICE FIHN: Thank you so much. It's a great honour.

CO: Can you tell us about the moment when you got the call?

BF: Yeah, we were sitting here in the office, being quite sure that we hadn't won it. And then, we got a phone call just a few minutes before the announcement was made. And we really couldn't believe it at first. Someone said are you sure it's not a prank?

CO: And how can you be sure it's not a prank?

BF: It made us sort of rethink it like OK, let's all celebrate until we actually see it live on TV that they’re actually saying the name of the campaign.

CO: And why do you think the Nobel Prize committee decided to give your organization this prize?

BF: I think we’ve seen in the last few years an increase in reliance on nuclear weapons by some states with more hostile rhetoric, more modernization of nuclear arsenals and it’s just been a much more dangerous situation. The risk of nuclear war is higher than it has been since pretty much the Cuba crisis. So I think… and at the same time, we have worked on this treaty to prohibit nuclear weapons, which was a ground-breaking international law that will step away from nuclear weapons. So it’s sort of seen two parallel trends in the world. I think that the Nobel committee really want to put a spotlight on the lack of disarmament from nuclear arms states and how civil society and a majority of states in the world are moving towards another direction.

CO: And, as you point out, the treaty and the people who voted at the United Nations. Canada didn't take part in that vote. And we know that President Trump was pressuring his U.S. allies not to take part in the vote — to boycott that particular round. And so why do you think Canada made that decision?

BF: I think Canada is part of the military alliance that sort of demands that all states in that alliance needs to be ready to use nuclear weapons together in a way. And I think it's easy for a country to just go along with its allies. But Canada has a reputation of being a humanitarian superpower in a way, and supporting of these kinds of initiatives. So it is really time for Canada to walk the walk in a way. And really if you are committed to disarmament, you should be able to declare that the use of nuclear weapons should be illegal.

CO: I want to get to your treaty, the one that Canada boycotted. There was a vote that took place at the United Nations. How successful do you think that was, given the fact that none of the nuclear-armed countries signed on to it? None of them none of them voted there, and none of them was going to ratify it?

BF: I think it was hugely successful. This treaty matters with or without the nuclear-armed states. It's a treaty that sets a very strong international norm. And we see from other treaties such a treaties to ban land mines and cluster munitions, biological and chemical weapons that treaties have an impact also on states that don't sign it. They have changed weapons policies even if they boycotted other treaties as well.

CO: But again, none of the superpowers who have nuclear weapons signed it.

BF: But they still get affected by it. For example, the landmines treaty was adopted in the mid-90s. And the United States, Russia and China didn't sign it. The United States has still declared today that they will start following the rules of the landmines treaty. These treaties, with or without all those states, will have an impact.

CO: The United States has gone further about this treaty, and says that not only will it not do anything to deter the use of nuclear weapons and nuclear war, it might even increase that possibility. How do you respond to that?

BF: I don't think that's really possible. States gathering to say that they don't want to ever use nuclear weapons, or have nuclear weapons, or develop nuclear weapons under any circumstances cannot increase the likelihood of nuclear war.

CO: Well, I guess the argument goes back to the cold war arguments of mutually-assured destruction that if everyone is terrified of starting a nuclear war. If everyone has enough weapons to do serious damage that no one will act on it.

BF: Yeah, but the states that are signing this don't have nuclear weapons. So if a nuclear war can only be started by the states that have nuclear weapons that will be their choice to start that. Not other states choice to never do that.

CO; What were the conversations in your office during the this this war of rhetoric between North Korea and the United States? When North Korea threatens to strike the American heartland with, quote, “nuclear sword of justice,” and President Trump responds that he could totally destroy North Korea.

BF: I mean it's despicable comments, of course. What they're talking about is slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians in a few seconds. Wiping out entire cities full of people like you and I, and people going to work and picking up their kids. That's not acceptable. And we cannot let that behavior remain legal in the international community. With or without these states on this treaty, we have to send a strong signal that that kind of rhetoric — that kind of behavior — cannot be acceptable.

CO: Well, again congratulations. And thank you for speaking with us.

BF: Thank you very much.

JD: Beatrice Fihn is the executive director of International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons. We reached her in Geneva.

[Music: Ambient]

From Our Archives: Fearless Girl

JD: It was a pretty powerful and striking juxtaposition: a statue of a young girl, hands on her hips, defiantly staring down the bull on Wall Street. Last March, to mark International Women's Day, a money management company by the name of State Street Global Advisor installed the statue known as the “Fearless Girl” to promote gender and pay equity. Now, however, that same firm has been accused by the U.S. Department of Labor of paying hundreds of female executives less than their male colleagues. Although the company does deny the allegation, it did agree to pay five million dollars. Last March, guest host Susan Bonner spoke with Brie Williams, the Head of Practice Management at State Street Global Advisors. Here's part of that conversation, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

BRIE WILLIAMS: Women make up about 45 per cent of the workforce for the S&P 500 company index. And only 25 per cent hold executive-level positions. And despite the various and numerous corporate initiatives that we've seen as of late, changes to these results have barely budged in the last 10 years.

SUSAN BONNER: Why is that?

BW: I think there are several factors that stymie the progress: bias, be that conscious or unconscious, is partly to blame. And if you add that bias to sweeping generalizations, such as the notion that women prefer support roles, or a perception that women are not interested in executive-level positions, it becomes difficult to really move the needle on gender diversity.

SB: Beyond installing this this very evocative statue, I understand your company is putting some financial pressure on corporations to increase the number of women in boardrooms. Your company is one of the largest asset management companies in the U.S. How does that work?

BW: So rather than wait for companies to take action themselves or simply rely on legislation to be enacted. If we look at our product example, which is State Street Global Advisor Gender Diversity Index, which is an exchange traded fund. The ticker symbol is she “SHE.” That was designed to track against a proprietary index comprised…

SB: But it’s still a money making venture for your company. So it's kind of Wall Street versus Wall Street, isn't it?

BW: No, SHE provides a way for people to invest in companies, specifically through gender lens investing. And a portion of the proceeds go back to organizations that help us create future leaders from our young girls. When I look at that statue and I see her positioned against the bill, I see a “can do spirit.” And I see young women through senior leaders today, who are trying to make a difference in taking charge and inspiring what comes next.

SB: Brie Williams, good to talk to you. Thanks very much.

BW: My pleasure. Thank you.

That was Brie Williams of State Street Global Advisors, speaking with guest host Susan Bonner last March. The management group made headlines when they installed the “Fearless Girl” statue opposite the Wall Street bull to promote gender and pay equity. And then, this week, they made headlines again, after they agreed to pay $5 million to settle federal allegations that they paid female executives less than their male colleagues.

[Music: Soundtrack]

Oxfam record

JD: For months, that record just sat on the shelf of the Oxfam charity shop in Thornbury, England. The HMV stereo pressing of “Music for Viola and Cello” by Jacqueline du Pré was collecting dust alongside Liberace, Barry Manilow, Engelbert Humperdink and the usual suspects that fill most donation bins. And then, finally, a volunteer at the shop Lois Linter decided to list the album for sale online. So she looked up its value, and she screamed: “Gold dust! Gold dust!” “Music for Viola and Cello”, which the shop was selling for the equivalent of three Canadian dollars, was actually worth more than three-thousand Canadian dollars. Shop Manager Gail Whitehead told The Express, quote, “I was gobsmacked. But, to be perfectly honest, I must say I didn't know who Jacqueline du Pré was.” Well Jacqueline du Pré was an English musician. Her career was cut short by multiple sclerosis, but she is still regarded as one of the great cellists of the last century. And now, the team at Oxfam will be listing it at a more appropriate price. So we're going to send this one out to the Oxfam shop in Thornbury. And for those keeping score at home, that is roughly four hundred-twenty-three-thousand-nine-hundred-eighty-four 12-inch records west of Reading.

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October 6, 2017 episode transcript

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