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The AIH Transcript for November 28, 2024

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Making their peace. With a delicate cease fire in place in Lebanon. Some people are returning to what is left of their homes. But a local MP says lasting security will require a different kind of rebuilding.

CH: Her name is law. More than a decade after she was nearly killed, a Newfoundland woman weeps to see the Senate pass a bill in her name that would order a nationwide strategy on intimate partner violence.

NK: Breathing a little easier. A medical team in London finds a new use for an old drug, and a member of that team tells us this could be the biggest development in asthma treatment in 50 years.

CH: Heart in her sleeve. 58 years after her wedding vows were recorded on vinyl will connect a Colorado woman with the Texan woman who found that record tucked into the jacket of a jazz album.

NK: Gobble up, gobble down. As Americans sit down for their Thanksgiving meals, we'll speak with a pilot whose annual mission is to drop frozen turkeys from the skies to families living in remote parts of Alaska.

CH: And gilding the lolly. A high tech device shaped like a lollipop will be a tasteful addition to your life because it will deliver virtual flavours to your non virtual tongue. As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio prepares its mouth for a sucker punch.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Lebanon MP: Ceasefire, Wedding Vinyl Returned, Airdropping Turkeys, Fake Taste Lollipop

Lebanon MP: Ceasefire

Guest: Najat Aoun Saliba

CH: Less than 48 hours in the ceasefire in Lebanon is already being tested. The agreement calls for a 60 day truce and the gradual withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon. But shortly after it was implemented yesterday, thousands of displaced Lebanese residents rushed south, trying to return to the homes they were forced to abandon amid the violence of recent months. Today, however, Lebanese media is reporting that at least two people were wounded by Israeli fire. In a statement, Israel's military confirmed it had shot at people in several areas in the south, but it called them suspects and said they had violated the cease fire agreement. Najat Aoun Saliba is an independent MP in Lebanon. We reached her in Beirut.

NK: Najat Aoun Saliba, there was certainly hope and celebration in Lebanon when the cease fire was first announced. How are you feeling about its prospects today?

NAJAT AOUN SALIBA: The hope came because we were living in something close to hell. The sound of the surveillance drone was constant on top of our heads. And at the same time, we in the last week before the ceasefire, experienced like a rain of strikes and bombs. And there was a sense of relief that came right after the ceasefire is announced.

NK: Is that hope and relief still in place today? Do you feel both of those things?

NAS: Well, at least we're not living under bombshells all the time. But at the same time, when we start looking deeply inside this deal, we are definitely worried, worried about the ability or the allowance of Israel to bomb and to invade Lebanon as it chooses, for to its own security and benefits. And at the same time, we are worried about some villages not being able to welcome their people again. And also some fears about the committee that is going to overlook and observe the implementation of the ceasefire. This committee, we don't know whether it's going to be equitable for both countries.

NK: So there's yeah, there's a suspension of that hope and relief in the middle of everything. When you hear the reports and claims from both sides of violations of the cease fire. You know, Hezbollah is accusing Israel of violating this deal, saying IDF soldiers are shooting at residents trying to return home. The Israeli military says its fighter jets hit a Hezbollah facility in the south and confirmed that they shot at some people. The IDF describes those people as, quote, "suspects". But when you hear that kind of back and forth, what does that signal to you about the strength or fragility of this agreement?

NAS: I think we understood from the beginning that this agreement is not going to be fair to our people, our land and the sovereignty of the country. But we really have no other choice. We really need to stand behind the Lebanese army forces so that they take the matters into their own hands. We don't want to go back to the fighting and the mass destruction and mass killings.

NK: I wanted to ask you about the Lebanese army, which you mentioned just a moment ago. It has no air force or air defence systems, a handful of helicopters. Is the Lebanese army up to the task of seeing this through beyond the agreement? Because the goal is for peacekeepers and the Lebanese army to be responsible for this area and to make sure Hezbollah is keeping up its obligations. Is the Lebanese army up to this task?

NAS: So it was a political decision from 2006 up until now to actually not to arm the Lebanese army forces and, you know, project this weak position of the Lebanese army forces. However, having said that, the Lebanese army forces has proven time and time again that they are up to difficult tasks and they have been able to actually create peace in places of turmoil and at the same time stay at equidistance from all the different parties that have conflicts internally. They are credible. People love to see them in full force and we want them, the only force that will be able to protect the citizens, the residents of this country, and also control and patrol the border of this country.

NK: I can see the need. I can see and hear the need, you know, to project that strength and that support for the Lebanese army that you're talking about. I think others may be a bit more concerned about their abilities. Is there enough buy in, is there enough funding for them to do what they need to do?

NAS: The funding needs to come from the international community, and they have promised that they will fund the Lebanese army forces because as you know, that Lebanon since 2019 has been experiencing an unprecedented economic collapse. We do hope that all the fund that has been promised to the Lebanese army forces will go to them as long as the Lebanese army forces are the only armed force on the ground able to protect the sovereignty of the country and the state.

NK: I've been watching the videos and hearing people returning to their homes, and I wonder what you've been seeing and hearing.

NAS: It was heartwarming and really makes everyone proud in this country to see how first people picked up the belongings that they had in the shelters and turned their cars towards the south and rushed early morning. Some of them even, you know, left at 4 a.m. as soon as the ceasefire time was up. It's extremely important to understand how much people are attached to the land and they are willing to really live in a small tent next to their land in order for them to live at home. For me, as a person who has lived the Civil War, I know what it's like to really feel, to be expelled from, you know, your home and to feel strange even in your own country. I, I too with my family, with my dad rushed back to really be among the very, very first people to rebuild our home and regain our lands. I know the feeling and I know how fulfilling it is to really live where you belong to be.

NK: Najat, I appreciate your time. Please take care. Thank you.

CH: Najat Aoun Saliba is an independent Lebanese MP. She's in Beirut.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Wedding Vinyl Returned

Guests: Katie Ornelas and Donna Schmidt

CH: The sleeve read "The Modern Jazz Quartet at Music Inn", it appeared to be a live jazz record from 1956, except the vinyl inside was labelled "Phil's and Donna's wedding. August 21st, 1966". And the sound on the vinyl was a recording of a Jewish wedding ceremony, breaking glass and all.

SOUNDCLIP

OFFICIANT: Through Donna and Phil we have assembled here today so that you too may be united for life as husband and wife.

CH: When Katie Ornelas found that album in a Texas thrift store, she decided to track down Phil and Donna and return the memento to its rightful owners, which she managed to do just in time for the Schmidt's 59th wedding anniversary. We reached Katie Ornelas in Austin, Texas, and Donna Schmitt in Denver, Colorado.

NK: Donna, when was the last time you listened to your wedding vinyl?

DONNA SCHMIDT: We listened to it right after we were married. It came and we were excited and we listened to it. And that was, I think probably maybe once, once or twice. And then I got tech safely into the cabinet. And our children say that they had never listened to it, which isn't that awful.

NK: [chuckles] Well, I think this happens a lot with wedding videos or those kinds of things. But wedding vinyl, when our producer Cassie raised the story, we all asked, what's wedding vinyl? Is it like a playlist from your wedding dance? What is it? Tell our listeners why you had this made.

DS: Well, don't forget, this was 58 years ago. Technology was so different. There were no videos. So my mother had this record made which was, which was genius. And we were thrilled to get it.

NK: And was it, is it just every moment of the wedding as if it were a video, but just the audio of the entire ceremony and all of that sort of thing?

DS: It's an audio of the entire ceremony from, as I recall, Katie knows it better than I do because she just listened to it. [KO: laughs]

NK: Well, let's bring in Katie. And I love this. You're already corresponding, obviously, as all of this unfolded, but this is the first time you're on a line together. So I'm very honoured to be in the midst of this.

KATIE ORNELAS: Yes, I've...

DS: Thanks for bringing us together Nil.

KO: Yeah. Thank you so much. We've just been having a lot of fun emailing and texting and getting to know each other, and I'm really excited to meet Danny tomorrow. But yes, I have to tell you, I haven't listened to it in its entirety, but I have listened to, you know, pick up the, would you say arm on the on the record player. And I just kind of bounced around and yeah, it's just their beautiful ceremony. And...

NK: I was going to ask when you dropped the needle on the vinyl the first time thinking it was going to be "The Modern Jazz Quartet at Music Inn" I believe. What? [KO: Yes.] What's the first thing you heard?

KO: We heard the rabbi. He was welcoming everyone. And you hear like music right before, you know, everyone sitting down and the ceremony begins. And my girls and I, we just, we I was cooking dinner that night, and we just stopped. And we just, like, all crowded around the record player and just listened.

NK: So then you have to try to find the owners. You need to find Donna and Phil, who got married in 1966. What did you do to track them down?

KO: I was sharing with some of my friends that, you know, my goodness, this is a wedding album. And so they encouraged me to reach out to Kelsey Thompson, it KXAN.

NK: That's your local station.

KO: Yes. And it's really all thanks to her that this connection was able to happen, because the story goes that several of Lauren, Donna and Phil daughters, her friends saw it and reached out to me on Facebook and reached out to Donna, I think, to get you to connect to Kelsey. And then that's how it all came about, because I wouldn't have found, I wouldn't have found them.

NK: So, Donna, was it a phone call or sorry, it was it an email in your inbox? What did you think when you first learned that this was out there?

DS: Well, it was early Sunday morning, and I looked at my messages and it was a message from my daughter, Lauren, with a picture of the, of our wedding record. It said, is this really yours? [chuckles]

NK: Did you know it was missing?

DS: No, [NK: laughs] we did not know it was missing because we had to let go of our vinyl collection when we downsized. And I guess somewhere along the way, we put it into a cardboard cover of that jazz quartet to keep it safe. So it inadvertently went out with the whole other collection.

NK: And so your son, Danny, is set to have dinner with his family and Katie's this weekend. And they'll be the first to retrieve the wedding vinyl. Are you excited? Are you and your husband excited to hear it again?

DS: Well, we're very excited to hear it again. I remember parts of it very well. The rabbi said this is a marriage made in heaven, which I thought was such a, such a wonderful remark. And then in the Jewish wedding, and I think this is what Katie and the girls enjoyed so much. The groom stomps on the glass. [NK: Yeah]. And then everybody cheers. It's a beautiful moment.

NK: And here you are 59 years in August.

DS: Yes. Isn't that amazing?

NK: It is amazing. How are you feeling about it?

DS: Old. [laughter]

NK: Oh come on. You know. Well, are you going to? I wonder, Katie, if you are going to be getting some advice on how to sustain 59 years.

KO: I would love your advice, Donna.

DS: Boy, I wish I could say something profound, Katie. You take one day at a time, find joy in each day and show respect for each other and enjoy each other. Be each other's best friend and just hang in there together. But where we are now enjoying our adult children and our beautiful grandchildren, we're reaping the benefits and having this record back just rekindles the joy of young love. You know, it's beautiful.

NK: It is beautiful. And I'm a puddle at this point. Very glad to have spoken to both of you. [KO: Same, same] This is just beautiful. I'm so grateful to spoken with you both. Thank you very much.

DS: Oh Nil, thank you so much for bringing us together and for sharing Katie's story of showing the kindness of strangers and the joy that it brings to the world.

KO: Well, I think I'm the lucky one in this situation. Thank you so much for your advice. And I just, I'm so glad that we're friends. And now we met each other in the wildest way that I'm really glad.

DS: And we are really bonded, Katie. We are totally bonded. Yeah.

KO: I cannot wait to see you in person! [DS: I know.] Bye Donna!

DS: Happy Thanksgiving, Katie. And have fun tomorrow too, Katie.

KO: Oh Yes. I'm looking forward to meeting your granddaughter.

DS: I know. And they are so looking forward to meeting you, too. I can't wait to hear all about it.

NK: Bye bye.

DS: Bye bye, ladies.

CH: We reached Katie Ornelas in Austin, Texas, and Donna Schmidt in Denver, Colorado.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Airdropping Turkeys

Guest: Esther Keim

CH: If you're listening to our show from the United States, there's a good chance you're doing so with a stomach full of Thanksgiving dinner. And if you're full of Thanksgiving dinner, there's a very good chance that dinner featured stuff that you bought at a store which you travelled to by land. Well, if you're in a tryptophan daze, this should give you a jolt. A select group of Alaskans have their turkeys dropped from the sky. And the dropper was Esther Keim. Ms. Keim is the co-founder of the "Alaskan Turkey Bomb". For two years now, she's flown her plane near homes of people living off grid in a remote area of Alaska and airdropped those people their holiday birds. We reached Esther Keim after a drop in Wasilla, Alaska.

NK: Esther, How have the drops been this season?

ESTHER KEIM: Hi. The drops have been very successful. We've hit all of our targets and there's been no casualties.

NK: [Chuckles] How does it feel when you're up there? I mean, apart from the excitement of being in the air. But just to be able to give this to people.

EK: Well, first of all, flying in Alaska is absolutely breathtaking. And it's just a feeling of freedom being up there. And then to be able to drop these turkeys, it just brings me a lot of joy. And it I absolutely love it because my heart is out there. I grew up out there and it was once done for me and my family. And so it's really pretty awesome to carry on that tradition.

NK: What do you remember about being a child and first noticing that this was happening?

EK: Well, it was like just from above. And the turkey, that was pretty awesome. We had friends drop us a fish once because there's long, long period of times where you're stuck out there. You can't travel around, the water's freezing up or the water's breaking or the ice and river's breaking up, and so you're kind of stuck there. So during those times we had neighbours that would, you know, fly from in town and drop us certain things. And one thing that I remember and made a huge impact as a child was we had a neighbour that dropped a newspaper, and inside the newspaper was a pack of gum and that was just, you know, amazing as a kid.

NK: And so what are the logistics involved here because you're not just going out they're dropping these at random, there are connections that are made. Timing. You need to see the people there. Right. So how does that all work?

EK: Yeah, it's the logistics are, it can be challenging, but I know a lot of the people that are living out in this area, but there are a lot of people I don't know. And so I will reach out to the ones I know and ask them, Hey, who's in the area, I'm gearing up to drop turkeys. You know, I'll reach out to a few different people that live out there full time, and they kind of know who's there. And so I get a list of people that way. And then I've also been able to find new families through sharing, you know, my story and posting reels and stuff on social media.

NK: Is this all free for them?

EK: Oh yeah. I get donations and because of that, I'm able to do it. So I'm in the process of making this into a non-profit organization and my goal and vision with this is to reach further parts of Alaska. But as far as logistic wise, finding out the location of families, I found six new families this year. And if they send me the coordinates. I'm a pilot and so I'm pretty decent with maps and so I can find it on the map.

NK: And do you call the folks before you do the drop? I mean, you have to see them and they have to see you to make sure they actually get the turkey right or know where it was dropped.

EK: Well, actually, I, a lot of them I can reach on text or messenger, but so I tell them the day that we're coming, but then we buzz the, once we find the home, we buzz the cabin first until someone comes out and we can see them. And so as soon as we see them, then we make a plan on where we're going to drop the turkey and then we come around and get low in as low as possible and drop the turkey.

NK: [chuckles] And then they see it. So they can [EK: Yes.] get out there. And what kind of response are you getting from folks who've benefited from what you're doing here?

EK: They think it's so awesome that we're throwing stuff out of aeroplanes and they're always video, they video us. I'm always getting videos and messages sent even before I land. They're sending them to me and it's pretty cool. They think it's exciting. And I actually found three families this year that had kids and I was so excited about that because I understand I grew up out there. And so I added ice cream and candy and things to the turkey bombs that had kids and that was really fun.

NK: How are you celebrating Thanksgiving now that you've done the turkey drops for the day?

EK: Just with family and friends. My turkey's actually cooking in the oven right now, so.

NK: Well, thank you. How big is it? Thank you for setting aside some time as that's happening.

EK: Yeah, it's 12 pounder. But the ones that I drop are I try to get them around 15 to 18 pounds.

NK: Those are, that's huge. [laughter].

EK: Yeah, it literally is a bomb. So they, they're frozen and they when they hit either if we drop them on the lake or on the ground. They bounce off the ground or if we're low coming down the river or a lake, I'll throw them out and it's like a bowling ball. They just roll.

NK: You're not flying the plane at the same time. I know you said you're a pilot, right?

EK: I am a pilot. I've flown in past years. I've flown and had someone drop the bombs for me. But this last couple of years, I have a girlfriend that has her own plane. It's a really nice one that can go slow. And she's a great pilot. And so I'm just back there chucking turkeys and she's just doing her thing.

NK: Is there one job that's more fun? I mean.

EK: No, I mean, I think they're both fun. I, I enjoy both. It's a challenge. It's a challenge for both, you know, because we're getting really low over the trees and we have to watch for, you know, ahead to make sure there's no hills that we have to, you know, avoid and then the wind. So those are all factors. And of course, not going, not getting too slow. And then for me, you know, the turkey is going at a forward motion with us. And so I have to make sure that we're not going towards a house or towards any outbuildings or people. [NK: Gotta be careful.] Yeah. So [stutters] I would be very nervous to, to hand it off to someone that's not a, has some experience dropping things.

NK: Esther, I hope you have a happy Thanksgiving. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

EK: Thank you. You too.

CH: That was Esther Keim. We reached her in Wasilla, Alaska.

Fake Taste Lollipop

[Music: A Taste of Honey by the Beatles]

CH: The Beatles with their best song, "A Taste of Honey". And maybe this song makes you think. You know what The Beatles, I would like to taste honey but you're fresh out. What are you to do? Well, at present, you have to walk out to your beehive and pull out the frames and remove the wax caps and spin the honey frames in a centrifuge. Or go to the store. But what if I told you that in the future, all you need is a handheld device shaped like a lollipop, which you can use to taste honey in a virtual reality world. Uh oh, you're shaking your head, "Chris". You say wearily, as though to a child. Existing methodologies for delivering artificial taste in a virtual environment are largely ineffective. A chemical system is impractical. And up, up, up, up, up. You say to me as I try to interrupt. Don't talk to me about electrical stimulation. No one wants an electrode patch on their tongue. Chris, come on. I'm sorry. You're completely right. I don't know what I was thinking, but that's why Yiming Liu of City University in Hong Kong. Opted for iontophoresis, which, in the words of Ars Technica, "achieves stable taste feedback by using ions flowing through biologically safe hydrogels to transport flavour chemicals". So you put on your VR helmet, you walk around in some VR world, and then when you put the lollipop style doohickey in your mouth, it zaps flavoured hydrogels which mix with your saliva and pow you taste what you see. Warning If you hear an actual pow, you may be electrocuting your soft palate. This must be an exciting time for people who are tired of having to put real things in their mouths to taste them. But to everyone else, the high tech flavour lollipop probably won't make a lick of sense.

[Music: Classical instrumental]

Part 2: Georgina's Law Passes, Quebec Border Cuts, Asthma Injections, "Holding Space" Journo

Georgina's Law Passes

Guest: Georgina McGrath

SOUNDCLIP

SPEAKER: Are senators are ready for the question. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators to adopt the motion. [Senators agree] Carried/adopté. (applause)

CH: The sound of senators passing 'Georgina's Law' in Ottawa on Tuesday night and standing for that applause was the bill's namesake, Georgina McGrath. Georgina's Law is a private member's bill that would give Canada two years to create a strategy to prevent intimate partner violence. It will now go to the House of Commons. And it was born out of Georgina McGrath's own experience with domestic violence. We reached her back home in Branch, Newfoundland and Labrador. In a warning, she will be talking about violence against women and suicide attempt.

NK: Georgina, you were there for that applause, for that moment that you fought a long time for. I know you've had a couple of days to let it sink in, but how are you feeling now?

GEORGINA MCGRATH: It's still surreal. It's been such an emotional roller coaster the last few days. It's been a long, long time coming. And, you know, we still have a road to travel yet.

NK: What keeps you on that road? What has kept you on this road for seven years?

GM: What's kept me on this road for seven years is the hardships that I went through myself. And when it came to the so called anniversary of my last beating, which was September 25th, 2014, I didn't want to define, I didn't want it to define me. I wanted to do something about it. I was a businesswoman and I was a really strong woman, except for in my own home. And I guess I, through counselling, I gained back a lot of that strength. And it was a big step. But I wanted to put it out on social media because when I was going through this, I felt so, so alone and I felt really unprotected by the law. And I felt really let down.

NK: There are so many important things to underline in what you said there. I think one is that there's no one type of person that this happens to. You know, there's, I think people have misconceptions about who this can affect. But it can and does happen to anyone.

GM: It does. You will hear senators come out themselves that have either lived through this or have lived through it with their families. And it's it has no one person that it picks to present itself to. Intimate partner violence is everywhere.

NK: You mentioned that 10 years has passed since a day that you didn't know that you would survive. As much as you're comfortable sharing right now. Could you tell us a little bit about what happened that day?

GM: So that evening, I came home from work and he was home from work as well. And it started as a pretty good evening. Now, you have to understand, this had been going on for a while. But I went into the house and he followed me and he ruptured both my eardrums. He blackened me from head to toe and he tried to strangle me. And it was the biggest beating I've ever taken in my life. And I tried to take my own life. Prior to trying that, I called my sister who lived in Trenton, Ontario, because I didn't have a will and I needed to make sure that my affairs were in order. Well, she could sense it. [NK: Yeah.] And she calls 911.

NK: I'm so glad she did. I'm so sorry, Georgina. [GM: It's okay.] That you went through all that.

GM: And it's just like it happened yesterday sometimes, you know. Even though I have a good life and I live a safe life. [sniffles] Sorry.

NK: Please don't apologize. You're very kind to share your story. And I get the sense that as difficult as it is, you get strength from knowing maybe it will help other people.

GM: You know, when myself and Senator Manning started this, because I'd done things provincially prior to this, we said that if we could save one life, then we've done what we planned, what we set out to do.

NK: What kinds of training or changes would you like to see? What kinds of training would you like to see in this national strategy?

GM: Number one is education. Right from kindergarten. You know, we don't, a lot of people don't realize that if you have a child that is raised in a home that there's abuse. Obviously, that child, that child's brain is not developed to understand healthy and unhealthy relationships. And I think in our teenage population, they really need to be taught how to identify red flags and the red flags that continue on into our adult portion of our life. Like, for example, your partner telling you what clothes you should wear or who you should see or who you shouldn't see and where you should go, or you know what you should work at and what you shouldn't work at. And then regards to training. Everybody needs training. Our judicial system right across the board, our police forces, when it comes to our health care, it needs to be -- our emergency rooms need to be trained properly, how to deal with victims of intimate partner violence. There is just so much work to be done.

NK: This law bears your name. Do you take pride in that?

GM: I do, because it puts a personal touch to it. A victim can when she hears or reads, you know, Georgina's law, and they look up what it is and they see somebody that's attached to that, that lived similar to the same kind of life that they're living. So it may give them that little bit of encouragement to go further with themselves. Lots of victims reach out to me a lot and or to even get the strength and courage to leave. But the most important thing is that we get this national strategy put in place.

NK: Georgina, I thank you for your time. I wish the best for you. Please take care.

GM: Thank you.

CH: We reached Georgina McGrath in Branch, Newfoundland and Labrador. And if you are struggling, you can call or text Canada's suicide crisis helpline. The number is 988.

[Music: Calm instrumental]

Quebec Border Cuts

CH: They're like neighbours who live across the street from each other. Except the street is a border and it's about to become much harder to get to the other side. In the new year 35 crossings along the U.S./Canada border will reduce their hours of operation. Among them is the Herdman crossing, which is used frequently by residents of northern New York State and southern Quebec. Right now, it's open 24 hours a day, but as of January 6th, it will only be open from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. That has border crossers on both sides of the border cross. Carolyn O'Grady lives in Rockburn, Quebec. Jo Ellen Saumier is a resident of Chateaugay, New York. Both travel over the border all the time. Here they are talking about the potential disruption, beginning with Ms. Saumier in New York.

SOUNDCLIP

JO ELLEN SAUMIER: Very concerned. The border is a commercial port, which means there are tractor trailer trucks that come through all hours. One of my neighbours says she sees transport trucks coming starting at 4:00 in the morning. Most of our diesel fuel for large vehicles like school buses, snowploughs, fire trucks, ambulances, comes out of the Port of Montreal and it comes in before 6 a.m. in the morning. And if they're not here in time for the school buses to leave, school's messed up. If they're not here to fill fire trucks, fires can go unattended or ambulances can't travel, the snowploughs can't travel. I don't think the people in Washington, D.C. and Ottawa have any concept of how closely tied our economies are in this region. We're back and forth constantly. [SH: Yeah] We're neighbours and family. We're not international countries.

SEAN HENRY: Let me read you what the Canada Border Services Agency wrote to us, "They said better alignment of service hours between Canadian and U.S. ports of entry increases the overall security of the border. Both Canada and the U.S. are making changes to hours of services to better align with each other". CBSA also wrote that these changes were made based on an analysis of operational pressures, peak periods and services required. Carolyn, I'll go to you. What have you heard from businesses on your side of the border?

CAROLYN O'GRADY: Well, there are several restaurants. Yes, there is the Rockburn pub, and I was just there Friday night with a friend and we were discussing the reduce border hours. And next to us was a table of eight people from New York. So it was probably I don't know, it was 6:00, 6:30 and they were just starting their supper. I as well feel that really, I really agree with what you had said before. Ms. Saumier about people in urban areas making these decisions behind closed doors and not realizing how tight knit rural communities are across the border.

CH: That's Carolyn O'Grady, who lives in Rockburn, Quebec. Before her, you heard Chateaugay, New York resident Jo Ellen Saumier. They were talking to Sean Henry, host of CBC Montreal's Daybreak.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Asthma Injections

Guest: Richard Russell

CH: It's being hailed as the first breakthrough in asthma treatment in 50 years. It comes in the form of a simple injection, one that doctors have known about for some time already. In a study published yesterday, a team of researchers looked at patients with asthma, as well as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or COPD, and determined that a drug called Benralizumab could make all the difference in managing flare ups. Dr. Richard Russell is the co-author of the study and a professor of respiratory medicine at King's College London. We reached him in London.

NK: Dr. Russell, the patients that were part of this study are suffering from particularly severe types of respiratory issues, as I understand it. Could you describe for our listeners what kinds of symptoms you're talking about here, what they're dealing with?

RICHARD RUSSELL: Well, the patients in our studies have asthma and COPD, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. And these are chronic lung diseases, which are airways diseases which cause breathlessness, cough, wheeze and symptoms like that. But of course and what we were particularly focusing on was when they have acute attacks, acute worsening of their disease.

NK: And what kind of treatment are they usually getting?

RR: So these patients are typically on a balance of different drugs given by inhalers. People will be very familiar, I'm sure, with the puffer type inhaler, a different type of inhalers, some of which are designed to open up the lungs and some of which are designed to prevent these attacks happening. But of course, in spite of really good inhaled therapy, attacks do happen. And that's, again, what we were trying to treat.

NK: And these are the inhalers that, you know, people will see their family members have, their friends have stashed in their bag and that's how they get by. But if we go back to the kinds of symptoms, these are more intense exacerbations than people might think of, right?

RR: Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And actually, people with asthma can be very, very good all of the time with very few symptoms indeed. But when you get a trigger, whether that's an infection or a virus or bacteria, you can then dramatically reduce your lung function, your airway close up, and you get symptoms. People with COPD, chronic obstructive pulmonary is a little bit different in that they often have chronic symptoms of breathlessness and maybe cough and they will also given the wrong trigger or the right trigger, get worse as well. So on top of the background symptoms, they then get much worse and they maybe walk, go from walking 200 metres down to maybe 10 metres.

NK: Why has there not been any improvements in treatment over the last 50 years?

RR: One is that it's only been relatively recent that we recognized that attacks have different causes and also have different patterns of inflammation that we can detect in people's bodies, in their lungs and indeed in their blood. And then the other aspect of this is we needed drugs that would actually treat these specific patterns of inflammation, and that's why it's come together really well now that not only can we detect the different patterns of inflammation, but also now with different medications, block the treatments. Whereas before all we had was oral corticosteroid medications, which were kind of non-specific, they weren't precise and they did not particularly target, particular types of inflammation. Now, that did treat the patient, but the problem with that is that also comes with a significant side effect burden. And I'm sure many listeners will be very aware of diabetes, cataract, skin thinning, bruising, weight gain and those other things that come with steroids.

NK: So you looked at 158 patients as part of your clinical trial. You put them in three groups. Can you briefly walk us through what you found as you examined each of them?

RR: Yeah, absolutely. So we, so basically a patient would come to us with an acute attack that got worse suddenly and we would do a point of care test of their blood to see if they had the particular pattern information to go into the study. And that's an eosinophilic pattern. So the blood cell called the eosinophils was elevated. We were then able to randomize them into three arms. One arm was steroids alone, the usual standard of care, and the other two arms were steroids, plus this new medication, this Benralizumab treatment, and the other one was Benralizumab alone. And then we watched them and followed them very closely for a 90 day period to see how they got better, how long it took for them to get better, whether the inflammation reduced, whether the symptoms improved, and indeed whether the treatment was successful.

NK: And it's a small sample we're talking about here over a relatively short period of time. Are there limitations to that?

RR: Well, not really, because what happened was and it was actually a stunning result, it is a real game changer for us because we demonstrated that people had the steroid, the standard treatment alone had a failure rate of 74 per cent. That meant that the treatments did not work. People needed more treatment. But we also demonstrated this new therapy, the Benralizumab treatment reduced that failure rate, interestingly, by, again, 74 per cent. So the level of failure in the Benralizumab was around 43 per cent. So it was a clear and dramatic change and improvement for patients. We really didn't need any more patients to do this. Of course we need bigger trials to prove it and to look at the context of care, but actually its effect size is absolutely proven and is really, really outstanding for us.

NK: And what were the patients telling you?

RR: It's stunning patients tell us they really don't like taking oral steroids. They get side effects on steroids. And they often don't work.

NK: They prefer needles.

RR: [chuckles] They're single injection, they felt better, quicker. They, indeed, their symptoms improved quicker and they felt better for longer.

NK: These injections, so to be clear, were already being prescribed for serious asthma and COPD cases. Is that right?

RR: Yes, sort of. I mean, it's absolutely true to say that Benralizumab as a therapy is available for people with severe asthma to be used chronically to prevent attacks. But we we're using it in a different context. We're also using a different dose. So it's a little bit different in that way. You just can't translate the two things over. And at the moment, no, it has been trialled in COPD in a chronic use of long term use, but it's not been shown to be effective. In this context, we're using it in the acute attack context with the right inflammatory pattern, with the right presentation being treated promptly and rapidly. It seems to work very, very well.

NK: Do you imagine a scenario where inhalers are phased out for most people?

RR: I think we can't say that because this again, was a context of the acute attack. And do we know that this treatment, long term, over a year or two will stop attacks happening again? I think that's very unlikely. We know inhalers are effective. And so we would absolutely recommend that people continue their long term inhaled therapies. But this is giving us a new option at the moment of an acute attack, which for some patients will be very effective. So we would love between 3 and 4 years to have a very strong, robust data set, which enables us to go to our regulatory bodies to say this is a new treatment for asthma and COPD attacks, which means that people do not need to take oral steroids again and get better outcomes than the standard treatment, which is oral steroids.

NK: Dr. Russell, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

RR: It's been great talking to you. Thank you very much indeed.

CH: Dr. Richard Russell is a co-author of a new study of the drug Benralizumab and a professor of respiratory medicine at King's College, London. We reached him in London.

[Music: Upbeat instrumental]

"Holding Space" Journo

CH: If you've been on the Internet at all in the past two weeks, you've probably caught a glimpse of the "Wicked" press tour. And that glimpse probably involved stars Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo, wearing some combination of pink and green and holding hands to support one another before breaking down in equally supportive tears. But perhaps the most viral moment of the stream of interviews so far is a sit down with journalist Tracy E. Gilchrist.

SOUNDCLIP

TRACY E. GILCHRIST: I've seen this week people are taking the lyrics of 'Defying Gravity' and really holding space with that and feeling power in that.

CYNTHIA ERIVO: I didn't know that that was happening.

TRACY E. GILCHRIST: I've seen it. Yeah.

CYNTHIA ERIVO: That's really powerful. Yeah, that's what I wanted. yeah. I didn't know that was happening.

TRACY E. GILCHRIST: I've seen it on a couple of posts. I don't know how widespread, but you know, I am in queer media, so that's my, you know. Yeah. But yeah, it's happening.

CH: I also need you to know that during that interview, Ariana Grande is holding on to just one of Cynthia Erivo fingers. Anyway, holding space for the lyrics of a song, a term and a moment that have sent ticktock into a frenzy. Top comments include "What is holding space. I'm being so genuine when I ask what holding space means", and "I want to make sure we hold space for defying gravity in this comment section, please". So many questions and so many memes, including this personal favourite.

SOUNDCLIP

Altered version of Tracy's voice singing the interview clip from before with music in background.

CH: Now that journalist Tracy E. Gilchrist is setting the record straight in a post mortem with the New York Times. She says on the day of that interview, November 7th, Tony Morrison from the 2SLGBTQ+ non-profit GLAAD, posted the lyrics of Defying Gravity as a way of uplifting people in the queer community after Donald Trump was re-elected. And after seeing that post, she wanted to get Cynthia Erivo's reaction as far as what holding space actually means, she says when she holds space for something, it means taking a beat and paying attention. She says, it can be something profound or something silly, which absolutely checks out. And as for becoming a meme, she says she's leaning into the joy, which sounds like something we should all hold space for.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Part 3: Toronto Pigeon Feeder, P.E.I. Pickleball Resignation, Longueil Mayor, Doug Koch Obit., FOA: Lancashire Heeler

Toronto Pigeon Feeder

Guest: Esther Attard

CH: At first glance, you might think it's a garbage can. Then you might wonder why there's fencing protecting a garbage can. Well, there's a simple explanation for that. It's actually a birth control dispenser for pigeons. It's part of a pilot program that's been running for over a year. The latest feeder at Nathan Phillips Square in downtown Toronto was just installed this week. Esther Attard is the chief veterinarian and director at Toronto Animal Services. We reached her in Toronto.

NK: Esther, for our listeners across the country who don't know about the pigeon situation in Toronto, how would you describe what was going on that would necessitate this kind of pilot project?

ESTHER ATTARD: So we've received complaints about pigeons being a nuisance for people with respect to so many of them in an area with the excrement, with people feeding them. And so, you know, we're trying to mitigate those issues in a humane way and using this contraceptive food for pigeons so that they don't grow their populations seemed a good thing to try.

NK: No condo balcony, I would hazard a guess in Toronto is really safe from the pigeons. [EA: Exactly.] And that's just one area of concern I know for people. But the feeder in Nathan Philip Square, very, very busy place. And I wonder if there's a risk of angering pigeon haters even more given that they're circulating and leaving their droppings there as well.

EA: So they're there already. And, you know, the methods used prior haven't really changed anything. And this should help us get a better level of population of the birds. I don't think we'll ever get rid of them because a lot of them come, they're abandoned birds from people that have racing pigeons or that are pigeon fanciers. So a lot of them are abandoned and they end up joining these flocks. So this is a way to try to mitigate and it should help. And the feeder, the fencing around it will have signage on it to let people know what we're doing and why. And hopefully people will be understanding and won't feed the pigeons and we'll just let them consume this food and then we should have fewer of them.

NK: Just to give our listeners a sense of how these dispensers work. Could you walk us through it? Is it actually a pill that they have to take every day?

EA: So it's a food and the contraceptive medication is in the food and they do have to eat it daily. But it is easy to condition animals to, you know, come for certain foods every day. So that is something that is easy to do. And as long as they're consuming it daily, their eggs will not be viable. So they won't contribute to increasing the population.

NK: And how many of these feeders are out and around the city?

EA: So we just have the one ground feeder right now. And this one did actually come from Spain through the manufacturer of the OVOcontrol food. And we will hopefully, you know, they'll hopefully be getting more. The other four feeders that we have around the city are the rooftop feeders and they're a little bit of a different design. But all of them, you know, you put the food in the top of the feeder and then it is dispersed out from the feeder about 2 or 3 feet, and it's on a timer. So it's fed at the same time. And usually we feed at sunrise because that's a good time when the birds wake up and they're hungry and hopefully we're the first ones to be feeding because if the birds are already full, if they've been fed, they may not come to feed because they're not hungry. So this way is the best way to try to get them to consume it daily.

NK: And have you seen the payoff positive results?

EA: We have had some positive results with the other feeding location. This one obviously has just started, but we have seen some positive results. We've got some up and down results on the data. But there are some challenges with doing this with other people feeding that shouldn't be feeding, but, you know, competing with us. Sometimes the feeders break or the cameras break and we don't really know if, how many birds we, because that's what we're using, we have some cameras that let us count the number of birds, and that's how we sort of track the flock size. So it's just those kinds of challenges. But we're going to have a closer look at the data and do our analysis and hopefully it'll, you know, show us that this is a good method to use and we can continue.

NK: What's the measure of success? How much of a reduction in the pigeon population in Toronto would you need to see for this to be a success in your view?

EA: So sort of right now, just because of the challenges we've had, any reduction that we're in sort of take it. But if we can get this working well and you know, now that we know what some of these challenges are and can mitigate those, we should see a 50 per cent reduction within a year or two. So which really could be helpful. And then again, if you continue to feed it, then, you know, you should see further reductions and certainly not an increase in population. We will get some increases because new birds may join from other sources. And so that has to be factored in. But again, we should be able to continue to keep the population as low as possible.

NK: And then is the goal after that, you know, to make this a permanent installation or installations across the city?

EA: Yeah. That is really what we're looking to see if that can happen. So to, you know, for the city to be doing it as well as others can do it on their own businesses, residences, if this works and is something, you know, it's not that hard to do for other businesses and that kind of thing. And they could manage it easily. It may be a better method to use. The are other methods that have been used are Avitrol, which is a poison that kills them and that's really not something that we want to promote. As well as trapping and killing them or trapping and moving them somewhere else, which is really cruel. So, you know, we're trying to look for ways that people can manage in a humane way.

NK: And you've said this a couple of times in the conversation, but I wonder if it's worth underlining. You know, you still see people feeding pigeons quite regularly.

EA: Yeah. It's a really hard thing to get people to stop, but honestly, you're not doing them any favours. And the food that people feed is really not good for these birds. So it's, you know, not a good thing and you just increase an issue for others. We do realize it is a hard thing to do though. A lot of these people that feed, there are mental health issues involved as well as loneliness. People really find comfort in feeding birds, but we're hoping that, you know, more people will begin using these methods. And so maybe people can come and just watch the feeders, feed the birds and mitigate the populations and people will be happier with that. So we'll see.

NK: Esther, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

EA: Thank you. Take care.

CH: Esther Attard is the director of Toronto Animal Services and the city's chief veterinarian. She's in Toronto.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

P.E.I. Pickleball Resignation

CH: Pickleball has become so popular in Kensington, Prince Edward Island that the small town population, less than two thousand, is putting in six courts. But not everyone in town is supportive. Town councillors voted 3 to 2 in favour of building the courts. The two no votes were the mayor and the town manager. Both say Kensington doesn't have the money for a project of that size. Even with the Canada Games fund kicking in over half the cash and now Mayor Rowan Caseley is quitting over the decision.

SOUNDCLIP

ROWAN CASELEY: Nothing against the, having a pickleball court and the need, but there are things that you have to be able to afford to pay for. This was a want, not a need, and I have tended to believe that we have to look after our needs first and our wants second just like at home. And I can get behind every decision the council has made in the past. I may not have always agreed with it, but I've always been able to take the decisions that council has made and said, okay, I can stand behind it this one I couldn't. And I had said right up front that I couldn't. So I looked at this as being a vote of non-confidence for me as mayor and a vote of no confidence in our town manager that everything that he had said and everything and I had said had been totally ignored and we were thrown out. We are a small town. We have a staff in the office of four and two people that basically would have to look after this, Jeff and the municipal clerk, one of them is going to have to somehow pull this together. And we had tried to convey to council. I tried to convey it and Mr. Baker tried to convey it and we failed. Now, I guess we obviously, we either didn't do a very good job of selling it or they didn't do a very good job of listening. I'm not sure what it was. Obviously one or the other.

SHEEHAN DESJARDINS: 10 years as mayor, how do you feel going out like this?

ROWAN CASELEY: Terrible. I was looking forward to finishing off this term. I had pretty well decided I wasn't going to do another term, but this was not the way I wanted to go. I struggled with this and I wrestled with his decision all weekend because I was afraid of what would I do, What would I do if it went this way, because I knew. I mean, one of the things that I've spent the last 10 years, the last 15 years is, is trying to develop and have the town grow in a fashion that's going to be fiscally stable and also hopefully control growth. But these kind of decisions are the kind of decisions that take us back to where we were 15 years ago.

CH: I was the former mayor of Kensington, P.E.I. Rowan Caseley, speaking with the CBC's Sheehan Desjardins.

[Music: Calm instrumental]

Longueil Mayor

CH: In other mayoral news, the mayor of the Montreal suburb of Longueil made a very different announcement today and silenced the buzz about her potential departure. Catherine Fournier would not have been the first high profile woman in Quebec politics to leave the job. Just last month, the mayor of Montreal, Valerie Plante, announced that she won't be seeking a third term. And Mayor Fournier has faced a lot of toxicity during her political career. Several years ago, her identity was leaked as the victim of sexual assault by a high profile member of the National Assembly, which prompted her to lift the publication ban on her own name and start speaking out. And just this year, a woman was arrested for allegedly harassing Mayor Fournier over a municipal issue. But she's not backing down. Here's some of what Catherine Fournier told reporters today.

SOUNDCLIP

CATHERINE FOURNIER: Yes, it would have been easier. I could do something else with my life. But I love being in politics. I love being able to contribute to the change I want to see in my community. I enjoy doing it with all of my team right here, right behind me. And it's a privilege to be able to have this contribution to the community, to this society. So, yes, I have my own moments of doubt. But I chose to stay, and I hope I will be worthy of this trust.

REPORTER: What was the moment where you doubted it the most?

CATHERINE FOURNIER: I think after the Debby storm I felt -- for real frankly, I felt overwhelmed by this situation. I mean, the force of nature and climate change that are ongoing. It's, It's hard. It's hard to face the stress from our citizens. It's hard to hear about their story when they come in city hall and they share with us things that they have lost. And we want to be, we want to face this responsibility as much as we can. But sometimes change takes time and we don't have a [inaudible].

REPORTER: You mentioned to my colleague, Dan, that you wanted to make a point and wanted to break out of a negative spiral. We've seen many female municipal politicians decide to leave. The last being Madame Plante. So is municipal politics a toxic climate for women?

CATHERINE FOURNIER: We have to be careful for sure, and we have to [French word]. We have to -- have to call out when we have, when we face threats. It's not acceptable for sure. I, I called out myself to police multiple times, but I would not say that it's a toxic environment. Well, it depends where, it could be toxic. But that's the message I want to send. If we want it to be positive like it is in Longueil, frankly. It can be it can be like in Longueil.

CH: That was Catherine Fournier, the mayor of Longueil, Quebec.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

Doug Koch Obit.

Guest: Jessica Walker

CH: If you've ever visited Victoria bookstore, Munro's Books, you might have run into Doug Koch. In fact, there's a very slim chance that you didn't see him. Mr. Koch wasn't just a longtime employee of the shop. He was a fixture, and he worked at the front desk and curated sections from history to poetry to the environment. And he took his role far beyond any job description. He gave out dog biscuits. He knew customers names and preferred genres. And he remembered everybody's birthday. Doug Koch died suddenly over the weekend. He suffered a heart attack on a city bus. He was 66. Jessica Walker is the owner of Munro's Books. We reached her in Victoria.

NK: Jessica, I wonder what the bookstore feels like to you and your colleagues walking among the rows of books. Given that Doug Koch has been there the entire time you've been there.

JESSICA WALKER: It's been a hard week, I think, for all of us. You know, our first moments back in the store after hearing the news were the hardest. And it's been both hard and lovely chatting to people as they come in the door. Some people have been surprised and only found out when they got here. And other people have made a special trip down to, you know, leave a note in the condolence book or check in with other staff members and share memories. So it's been a rough week. But, you know, remembering him has been a gift.

NK: What kinds of things are people saying or writing in that book of condolence?

JW: You know, many people have been coming in here for decades and know him so well. He's just a fixture. And they're, you know, going to miss the chats. He was always a great one to be making a music recommendation or talking about a book or, you know, something like that. He knew people's dogs by name was always, you know, reaching for the dog biscuits when people came in. So from the customer side, and this is something we've talked about, you know, in the store and I've talked about with other people that you don't often have a chance, you know, in a retail setting or when you're out shopping to kind of have those connections these days, you know, in the age of automated checkouts and things like that. So to have someone who knows your name when you walk into a store is kind of a special thing. [NK: Very] And he was very engaged too, you know, he's very engaged in city and politics and culture. So he was just a touchstone for a lot of people.

NK: And I hear that the checkout experience, if Doug was the one checking you out, was particularly interesting. Can you describe what that interaction might be like?

JW: Well, I mean, sometimes we had to remind him that there was a lineup that he needed to, you know, help the next person. But he you know, he would take the little container of bookmarks out and get kids to pick out their own bookmark colours and, you know, often have a comment about whatever someone was buying or, you know, talk about that book, which would engender the conversation about the next book that they should read. You know, and he also would like to talk about, you know, his own history. You know, he worked on the railroad. We all kind of heard the Doug stories over the years. So, yeah, he was a special guy. And we get a lot of tourists and visitors to Victoria as well. And he was always very generous and welcoming to people who were, whether they were here for a day or, you know, snowbirds up for the winter or something. He was always very generous with his time.

NK: Apparently birthdays were big. I mean, we love a birthday around here at As It Happens. What was it like if he knew that it was your birthday or a customer's birthday?

JW: Well, he had a file, a little paper that he carried with him with birthdays on it. He would phone people on their birthdays and sing a very, you know, kind of classy happy birthday into their message machine or their voicemail.

NK: Did he have a good voice?

JW: He did actually, he really he kind of turned on the, you know, the velvet fog charm. And it's something that, you know, he continued to call many staff members long, long after they left the store. To be able to maintain those connections at something else you hear about, you hear about how hard it is to maintain connections with people once you're no longer in the same city or working in the same place. And he really managed to do that in quite a unique way.

NK: He was supportive of authors. He loved books clearly, and he loved the store. Michelle Brown Colistro wrote or said in the Times Colonist obituary that Doug always kept her book face out, even when it had most definitely stopped selling. What does it say about him?

JW: Well, and Michelle actually worked in the store for a time as well, so she got the double benefits of Doug. But yes, he used to say, you know, real men read poetry. He looked after the poetry section and he was very proud and passionate champion for all sorts of local authors and counted many, particularly of the poets, you know, as his friends. And I think, you know, he was just as he did with music and other things, he was passionate about the environment. You know, books meant a lot to him. And they were you know, he was, he liked them physically. He's like talking about them, reading them. And I think he had great respect for the act of writing as well.

NK: Are there plans to memorialize him, honour him in some way in the store, but also in Victoria?

JW: Yes. So his family is working on a bursary or a scholarship in his name and there'll be details shared about that. And then in the new year, we are planning a celebration event. You know, it's early days. It's been a challenging week. But there will be a public celebration in the new year that we will be sharing information about widely. And judging from the response we've had this week on social media and in the store, you know, it will be a packed house.

NK: Is there a favourite memory of Doug that you want to share of yours?

JW: I mean, you know, it's funny when you work with someone kind of every day, you know, I think that was, you know, we were all kind of wanting to make sure we didn't take that for granted. I think it was really about kind of small kindnesses and really knowing that someone deep in their heart is a good and generous person.

NK: That's a beautiful thing. Jessica, thank you for this. Please take care.

JW: Thank you.

CH: That was Jessica Walker, owner of Munro's Books in Victoria, B.C.

[Music: Calm instrumental]

FOA: Lancashire Heeler

CH: Every year in the United States on the last Thursday of November, people gather with family and friends for a special holiday, National Dog Show day. Sometimes there's food around, too, like a turkey or something. But the main attractions on this day are the nearly two thousand dogs competing at the National Dog Show. This year, as all Americans already know, history was made by Vito the pug who was crowned top dog. It is the first time a pug has won best in show, and now he can tell the rest of the field they got "Vito-ed". But if there was a ribbon for best new dog in show, it would go to the Lancashire Heeler because it's the only new dog breed allowed to enter this year's competition after it was officially recognized by the American Kennel Club earlier this year. In January, we spoke with Patricia Blankenship, who's been breeding Lancashire Heelers for about a decade. She told guest host Megan Williams about the breed's famous smile.

SOUNDCLIP

PATRICIA BLANKENSHIP: They just have kind of like peel the lips back a little bit. And show teeth. Some of them have, just like people have a bigger smile than others. But I think it's not just the smile, it's the expression in their face that goes along with the smile and it just really looks like they smile. [chuckle]

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Now, you have a few heelers of your own. Can you tell me about their names?

PB: Most of them are named after British kings and queens, princes and princesses. There was Prince Edward, Queen Victoria, Queen Elizabeth. Of course, you know, they have call names, Lizzie and Vicki and Eddie and stuff like that. So, most of, most all of mine that I, you know, have raised or kept myself or whatever have, you know, have gotten names of, of --

MW: of Royalty, yeah.

PB: Of royalty.

MW: I mean, does the breed suit such regal names?

PB: Some do. Some might not. [both chuckle]

MW: [chuckling] Now, you've bred lots of different kinds of dogs. What made you stick with this one?

PB: I had in high school many moons ago, I was doing the tour with the Manchester terrier and they, you know, that and the corgi or two of the main breeds, I believe, are in the background and make-up of the Lancashire heeler. And flipping through a book and saw them and they're just, I've had small dogs, big dogs and they're just a, to me, a good size. And then, the black and tan colours have always been one of my favourite colours. Of course, they come in black and tan and liver and tan so I got liver and tans too, which I love too. But you know, initially, it was black and tan.

MW: [chuckling] Well, having a breed recognized by the American Kennel Club is quite the process. How did you help it along?

PB: You know, we've come a long ways with a lot of work and help from people and stuff. My end of it was more the breeding end of it.

MW: Are, are we hearing a heeler in the background?

PB: No, this is a repair man, I have a feeling. I'm sorry. Hang on just a minute. [MW chuckles] Hello? I'm very sorry. I'm so sorry.

MW: That's okay. You've got a lot going on there. But was that one of the heeler dogs barking in the background there?

PB: No, that's my, [both laughing] my ringtone is a dog barking. [laughing harder] My ringtone on the calls is a dog barking. My text tone is a duck quacking, so. [both laugh some more]

CH: From our archives that was Patricia Blankenship speaking to guest host Megan Williams in January of this year.

[Music: Theme]

CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

[Music: Theme]

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The AIH Transcript For November 28, 2024

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