Trump's key to victory in the U.S. election? Men who hate politics

To reach male voters, Republican candidate hangs out on podcasts talking boxing, golf and cocaine benders

Image | MMA/

Caption: Trump, seen at an April 2023 UFC fight in Miami, has tapped into a subculture through his interest in ultimate fighting. And he's drawing on it in this election, appearing on podcasts that are more focused on that sport and, usually, less into politics. (Rich Storry/USA Today/Reuters)

Why would Donald Trump devote valuable campaign time to talking with podcast hosts about cocaine benders, golf swings and boxing legends?
The strategy driving this is no secret. Trump's campaign has acknowledged what it sees as a key to victory on Nov. 5: Turning out politically apathetic men.
His team believes there's a goldmine of votes to be tapped among men, especially young men, who dislike politicians and aren't keen on voting. But if they do happen to cast a ballot, they'd prefer Trump.
Reaching these men is step one. Trump's campaign co-manager shed light on this during the Republican summer convention. Chris LaCivita lamented the low turnout levels among gun-owners, and talked about scolding his own hunting buddies for not voting.
"What the hell are you doing?" LaCivita said, referring to his friends. "You've gotta show up."

Image | USA-ELECTION/TRUMP

Caption: Trump campaign co-manager Chris LaCivita, seen at a rally, has talked about the need to get more of his hunting buddies to vote. (Brian Snyder/Reuters)

The math here is simple: Most polls(external link) show Trump with a solid lead among male voters, while trailing badly among women. Some polls, though not all(external link), even show him gaining ground(external link) among young men. If he turns out more men, the thinking goes, it could clinch a close election.
It's a concern weighing on Democrats.

The volunteer demographic

At party headquarters in one North Carolina county, volunteers marvelled at the explosion in enthusiasm since Kamala Harris entered the race, with exponentially more people now knocking doors and making calls.
But there's a caveat. During a break from phone-banking, one woman remarked that most volunteers looked like her: female professionals, middle aged and older.
WATCH | Why Democrats in North Carolina are excited to vote:

Media Video | The National : Why Democrats are gaining momentum in North Carolina

Caption: North Carolina has voted Republican in the last three presidential elections, but since Kamala Harris entered the race, Democrats have gained momentum in the state. For The National, CBC’s Katie Simpson visits two competitive counties to find out why.

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"There's been a lot of influx of, sort of, my demographic of volunteers," said Jane Brody, a commercial realtor in Buncombe County, N.C.
"I think we need all different kinds of volunteers. Young people, men, veterans."
She's struggling to understand why Trump may be appealing to more young male voters than he did in 2020. After all, she says, they tell pollsters they also care about abortion rights(external link), as boyfriends, husbands and brothers.

Young men may be more right leaning

On a college campus a couple of hours east, a young conservative activist insists there's more support for Trump's ideas here than most realize.
Asked for an example, Matthew Kingsley mentions the Gaza protests this past spring. He would counter-protest by holding up an American flag nearby, and says some male students would discreetly encourage him.

Image | Matthew Kingsley at UNC

Caption: Matthew Kingsley, 20, a conservative activist at the University of North Carolina in Charlotte, says that more young men are supportive of Trump's ideas than many people would assume. (Alex Panetta/CBC)

"I would have people come up to me and say, 'Thank you,' " said the 20-year-old engineering student at the University of North Carolina in Charlotte.
"They're not willing to come out about their political views. But they are more right-leaning."
To be clear: Being a Republican remains, as Kingsley concedes, a minority view on college campuses. But even small Trump gains within that group could change the election.
Some Harris supporters reflected on the gender gap while chatting outside a rally in North Carolina last week, her first since delivering a strong debate performance.

Image | Tausha Forney in Charlotte

Caption: Tausha Forney, who works with non-profits and is running for a county commissioner seat in western North Carolina, says there's huge enthusiasm for Harris, but she's a little worried about male voter turnout. (Alex Panetta/CBC)

Abortion makes voting 'more personal' to women

Tausha Forney, a curriculum planner for non-profit groups, says she hasn't seen crowds like this for a Democrat since Barack Obama won this state in 2008, but she says she's "a little iffy" about male turnout.
She says she's counting on women to convince male relatives and partners to turn out for Harris.
Katelyn Guidry, a University of North Carolina student, believes young women are just more vocal, especially after Trump-appointed judges pared back abortion rights (North Carolina now has a 12-week limit(external link)).
"For us it's a little more personal," she said. "But I am still seeing the support from my male counterparts."

Image | Katelyn Guidry and Valerie Fynn

Caption: Katelyn Guidry, left, and Valerie Fynn, friends and fellow students at the University of North Carolina, after attending a Harris rally in Charlotte. (Alex Panetta/CBC)

It's hard to know exactly how wide the gender gap will be on election day.
One well-known political scientist, John Sides, has observed that(external link), when it comes to young voters, polls are all over the map — the New York Times shows(external link) a majority of Gen Z men supporting Trump, but other surveys(external link) don't(external link), or show a minimal male-female difference.

Talking cocaine binges and boxers

Here's what's undeniable: Trump is foraging for votes in hard-to-reach places.
He's appeared on podcasts that aren't generally political, but have audiences that are young, male, and massive in size.
An episode with comedian Theo Von drew more than 13 million views(external link) on YouTube alone, not counting other platforms. For comparison's sake, that's triple the typical TV viewership(external link) of Fox News's highest-rated prime-time shows.
WATCH | Trump appears on Theo Von's podcast:

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Von's questions were mostly softballs like: "Why does the establishment keep trying to sink you?" The only real discussion about policy came when the host praised Trump for his executive order(external link) to increase transparency(external link) in health insurance prices.
Instead, they talked sports — Trump described watching Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier fight, then befriending both boxing legends years later.
They also discussed Von's recurring battles with alcohol and cocaine addiction. Trump, who says he's never touched alcohol, drugs or cigarettes, showed curiosity, asking Von what was harder to quit — alcohol or cocaine?
Von said alcohol leads him back to drugs. "It goes downhill pretty quickly," he told Trump. "You're go-karting, racing with hookers and stuff. It gets pretty bad … Cocaine'll turn you into a damn owl, homie."

Image | MMA/

Caption: Trump's connection to several podcasters is his friend seen here, Dana White, the Ultimate Fighting Championship CEO who spoke at this year's Republican convention. (Joe Camporeale/USA Today/Reuters)

Trump gaining access to huge audiences

Trump has met several podcasters through a prominent friend, mixed-martial arts impresario Dana White, who introduced him to Von and others.
Mutual friends of White's were on stage at a recent Trump rally: the Nelk Boys, Canadian-American podcasters and entertainers with millions of followers on platforms that churn out ultimate fighting talk, celebrity interviews, pro-right politics and viral content like the demolition of a TV(external link) showing Kamala Harris speaking. They've also interviewed Trump(external link) a couple of times.
In another recent episode(external link) with pro wrestler and entertainer Logan Paul, Trump discussed boxing, family and his relationships with world leaders, including dictators, many with whom he says he's had good relationships.
"I got along with the tough ones," he said. "You had some real weak ones, too. I didn't get along with them as well. It's strange. Must be a personality thing."
It's obvious that Trump is doing these shows because he gains access to huge audiences that are disdainful of politics, says Kathleen Hall Jamieson, a prominent scholar of political communications(external link).
"It's an anti-establishment audience," said the University of Pennsylvania professor and author.

Image | MMA/

Caption: The ultimate podcast prize for Trump? That would likely be an invite from Joe Rogan, centre, the comedian and ultimate fighting commentator who hosts the top-rated podcast on Spotify. But it hasn't happened yet, and Rogan recently complimented Harris. (Jasen Vinlove/USA Today/Reuters)

An attempt to mobilize male voters

They might not trust politicians; but they trust their favourite podcast host. And she says hearing Trump chatting amiably with that host creates a bond in a way an ad or traditional news clips don't.
Scholars in her field call it a parasocial relationship, a sense of community between the listener, the host and Trump.
"It's a way of saying, 'I'm like you, prospective voter whose vote I need. So you can trust me. By the way, the hosts you listen to have tacitly endorsed me because they've hosted me. You can trust me'," Hall Jamieson said in an interview.
"These are people who, if they vote, will vote for Trump — or they'll vote for a third-party candidate. But they're not that likely to vote. What he's trying to do is to mobilize them to vote."
And it's no accident these chats avoid policy talk. If they got too serious, she says, the audience would tune out. "This isn't NPR. This isn't PBS NewsHour."
The ultimate prize for Trump, Hall Jamieson says, would be an invite from the No. 1 podcast(external link) host on Spotify: Joe Rogan, who is doggedly anti-establishment, frequently conspiratorial, and whose politics sometimes(external link) skew conservative, though he's endorsed(external link) Bernie Sanders and praised(external link) Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
But there's no sign that's imminent, especially after Rogan praised Harris(external link) for outfoxing Trump in the debate.

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The tale of the T-shirts

Outside the Harris rally in Charlotte, some of the people selling merchandise say they believe Trump may be making real inroads with men, including within the Black community.
"A lot of African-American males are considering Trump," said Randolph Anyanwu, a 28-year-old T-shirt vendor, and son of Nigerian immigrants.
"I don't really sell to males. I sell to women," he said, pointing to the pile of Harris T-shirts on his own table. "The women that are buying them — like 35 and up. Those are [Harris's] real supporters."
Anyanwu says he himself has no plans to vote this year as he dislikes both main candidates. "I'm sitting it out."

Image | Randolph Anyanwu at Harris rally

Caption: Randolph Anyanwu, who sells merchandise at political rallies, says sales of Harris gear has surged, mainly among women. (Alex Panetta/CBC)

But he says Harris's campaign has seen a surge in enthusiasm compared to Joe Biden — based on polling, campaign donations, the number of volunteers and Anyanwu's T-shirt sales, which have soared.
It's also essential to note that the vast majority of Black men are projected(external link) to back Harris(external link).
Anyanwu pauses when asked to make a prediction about the election.
"It can go either way," he said, before adding: "I think Kamala will win."