Summer 2024 only just started, but it already belongs to Charli XCX and her album Brat.

Today on Commotion, music journalist Reanna Cruz and culture writer Scaachi Koul join host Elamin Abdelmahmoud to chat about why we're gearing up for a big brat summer, and why pop stars like Katy Perry are trying to be part of this new brat pack.

Elamin: Reanna, some people are out here pretending that Charli has not been around for a million years doing this exact thing. Can we talk about this moment in Charli and how we arrived at Brat?

Reanna: I feel like Charli has been at the forefront of the forward-thinking pop music conversation for a while. Some people might still know her from the Boom Clap era of her career, but over the past decade or so, she's really made a concentrated effort to be at the forefront of new sounds and experimental pop music — and that has mostly gone off the radar, unless you're a very dedicated pop music listener.

She has a very, "if you know, you know," fan base where if you're tapped in, you're tapped in. I think with Brat, where we find ourselves is that "if you know, you know," mentality reaching a larger audience due to Charli's forward-thinking pop sound finally reaching, I think, a maximum audience.

Elamin: Yeah, if Charli XCX came out of nowhere for you, then I don't know what you've been listening to. She's been around since the Myspace era of music, and she's kind of been your favorite artist's favorite artist for a minute. There's so many different pop touch points that have borrowed from her music, either explicitly or implicitly. So the idea that she's now at the main pop girl status is interesting to me.

Scaachi, we've got to talk about the mood that she's introduced with this album. You wrote this article for Slate with the headline, "Get In, Loser: It's Big Brat Summer." I think you're making the argument that Charli has captured the mood that we need to sort of pay attention to this summer. What do you think it is about this album that connects to that mood? Also, what is that mood?

Scaachi: Well first of all Elamin, as you know, I am a brat and have been one for many years.

Elamin: Well aware.

Scaachi: Even longer than Charli, indeed. But what's interesting about the album is the sound is really fun and it's really pop-y, and it is very forward-thinking, but the lyrics are so sad. They're really about excavating your grief and your personal trauma, and trying to figure out what you're going to do with your life, and being in despair in this current moment.

And I think this summer, a lot of people are kind of in this place of, everything's broken; nothing works. I'm so sad. The world is on fire. There's genocide everywhere. No one can buy anything from Loblaws because there's a billionaire who insists that eggs be $15. So, what we do have is we can dance at the club. That is the energy of this summer: "I'm going to be a brat. I have nothing left to lose."

Elamin: There's a rebelliousness to the idea of owning the brat identity. Charli's 31, you know? She's saying, "I was promised a certain future" — which is to say if you work really hard, then things will work out. I think if you're a millennial or a Gen Z and you look at the future, you're like, "is this the 'working out' that you've promised us?" And this album is landing in that moment, to me. You're exactly right to point out this interplay between the really dark lyrics, but then the music is like, "Please join me in the club where we will dance to our insecurities together."