As the Israel-Hamas war continues, there has been an unmistakable upheaval in the art world.

Writers Maris Kreizman, Josh Gondelman and Jen Sookfong Lee are grappling with the consequences of speaking up.

They join host Elamin Abdelmahmoud and arts reporter Josh O'Kane to share their thoughts on the cancelled exhibits, protests, and the people who've lost jobs and opportunities for sharing their points of view — and what's at stake within our cultural institutions.

Elamin: Maris, the letter you signed gets at many things, but one of the big things is how pro-Palestinian voices or people who have challenged Israeli policies are being silenced. What, for you, is at stake here?

Maris: At a time when books are being banned in schools and public libraries in unprecedented numbers, I'm just really alarmed that authors are being reproached and having events cancelled simply for signing letters that call for peace. I feel like for a long time I was saying, "Free speech isn't the issue here. It's what private corporations do with their time, and it's maybe not great." And now I feel foolish for saying that we didn't have a problem.

Elamin: Josh Gondelman, I should say, because we have two Josh's in this chat. You're a writer. You're a comedian. Are you worried about losing opportunities or gigs down the road because you called for a ceasefire and criticized the Israeli government?

Gondelman: Sure. I mean, I think that's always on my mind. But I think this is a big, pressing political issue in a lot of ways. I have an identity as a cis straight white guy, and in America that has a lot of privilege and protection. I think as a Jewish person, it's important for me to use my voice honestly. I'm also a coward, and so I've spoken out in a way that I think is pretty conciliatory and gentle; I haven't set out trying to make enemies. But it's a big issue, and I think as Maris said, calling out for peace and for safety, hopefully, in the future will not feel as controversial and electric as it does in this moment.

Elamin: I should say — conciliatory maybe, but certainly not a coward, Josh. And I'm saying that because the stakes do feel, in a way, so high. Jen, how is all of this landing for you — the silencing or the sidelining of certain voices, but not others?

Jen: It feels not unfamiliar. And I would qualify that by saying I walk through the world in an Asian woman's body. I can't change my face. My body and my appearance have been politicized, whether I like it or not, through no choice of my own. The one thing I've discovered over being a more sort of political author who says things publicly, is that the person that I am really offends people when I have political opinions, or any kind of opinions at all. People really want me to basically shut up and write books. What we're seeing now is a much more widespread silencing of certain voices over others, and it actually scares me because when it was just me and Chrissy Teigen being told to shut up about our political opinions, I can handle it; I signed up for this. But when it's as widespread as it is now, I find it really, really frightening.

Elamin: Maybe I'll go to you, Josh O'Kane, about this. You've been covering the art world for a while. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that can't even be reported in some cases. How bad is the chill right now?

O'Kane: There's at least one situation I'm aware of but can't describe yet. You were talking about not being able to report — that's happening in Canada right now, where a person may be facing serious consequences in the arts world for a pro-Palestinian stance. I understand that many people they know now feel a pretty strong chill about this, and if anyone wants to email me about that, my email is public.

Elamin: Someone go on the record so Josh can report about it.

O'Kane: Exactly. But we also are starting to see artists come forward vocally. It's not a blanket chill. We're seeing that in response to protests and speeches at recent book galas, which I'm sure we're going to get into.