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The AIH Transcript for July 26, 2022

HELEN MANN: Hello. I'm Helen Mann.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

HM: Beyond sorry. Chief Judy Wilson tells us the Pope needs to do more than apologize. She says the harm done to Indigenous people stems from a church decree called the Doctrine of Discovery -- and the pontiff should repeal it.

CH: Mass appeal. A day after his historic apology, Pope Francis holds a service at a stadium in Edmonton. A Catholic teacher tells us what it meant to her to see him on Canadian soil.

HM: A spokesperson for spokes people. For the first time since the '80s, women are riding in their own Tour de France. One of the cyclists who pushed for its return describes the thrill of the race.

CH: Putting the "egg" in "egotist." U.S. officials seize a Russian oligarch's superyacht -- and find it contains expensive art, an infinity pool -- and what may be a Fabergé egg.

HM: Paddle bored. Four women spent over a month on the open ocean rowing from California to Hawaii -- breaking a world record and keeping each others' spirits up along the way.

CH: And… she's polite -- but she won't come out of her shell. Pearl is a walking bivalve with multiple eyes who's a mascot of the Halifax Oyster Festival. And not only is she surrounded by oyster-related carnage, but now she's terrifying people on the Internet.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that thinks it must shuck to be her.

Part 1: Papal Visit: Chief Judy Wilson, Women's Tour de France, Oyster Mascot

Papal Visit: Chief Judy Wilson

Guest: Chief Judy Wilson

CH: The Pope's second day in Canada has had a very different energy from his first. Yesterday was sombre -- culminating in his historic apology to Indigenous people for the harms done by residential schools. But today, the Pope held a mass for 65,000 people in Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium. He arrived smiling, waving, and blessing babies. The mood was celebratory. But many Indigenous people aren't ready to celebrate. They say yesterday's apology was not enough -- the Pope has to renounce the Doctrine of Discovery. A fifteenth-century pronouncement from the Catholic Church essentially giving European explorers title over any lands they discovered. Free reign over the New World. Chief Judy Wilson is among those hoping more can come from the Pope's visit. She was at Commonwealth Stadium today. We reached her in Edmonton.

HM: Chief Wilson, The Pope has made it clear that this visit is all about seeking forgiveness and reconciliation. Having seeing his apology at Maskwacis yesterday and the mass today in Edmonton, do you feel like he is succeeding?

CHIEF JUDY WILSON: I still haven't heard anything about repudiating the Doctrine of Discovery, which is where a lot of the genocide legislation policy, you know, the Indian Act, the residential schools, the creation of the reserves all stem from. You know, the church might say, oh, well, we repudiated it. But repudiating it and implementing the changes because we still live under the Indian Act, and we don't own title to our reserves. And also, you know, the residential school, the children that went with all the atrocities they suffered with the mass graves and burial sites, and then the continuation of the residential schools, identifying many of the children who didn't come home. And, you know, the Sixties Scoop and child welfare, you know, they're still taking our children and then the devastating socioeconomic conditions our people are living within and struggling with each and every day, which stem to the Doctrine of Discovery.

HM: Anyone watching yesterday and paying close attention would have heard a voice coming out of the crowd asking for the renunciation of that doctrine. That was your voice. I don't think many Canadians perhaps have… have understood the importance of that doctrine and why it is so fundamental to you to see it revoked. Can you just explain how that kind of fits into the history of colonialism that the church helped perpetuate?

CJW: Well, the Doctrine of Discovery all occurred, you know, in Spain and Portugal. They had those people roles that gave those countries to conquer and win. That was their overall intent, to exploit the land and the resources and our people in slavery. England followed suit after that, and they came over to our countries and said that the land was vacant and under terra nullius and that, you know, our people were savages, so that our land and resources and our people were open to do as they wish, which was erasure, assimilation and eradication. You fast-track that to today under the genocidal legislation the colonial governments came up with. You know, the Indian Act and all the different legislation that dispossessed us from our lands, our waters and our language and our culture. So the intent very much was designed in residential schools, reserve creation policy to continue that intent.

HM: If the church rescinds the Doctrine of Discovery, how might that potentially change the lives of Indigenous people in Canada right now? Would it… would it change those laws? Would it change those treaty relations?

CJW: Well, first of all, the accountability is so huge. And this sort of repudiation is, you know, the accountability of, you know, what happened to our people, which, you know, even the bare minimum of apology over residential school and treatment, it doesn't go far enough of changing those legislations and policies and changing the paradigm between state government and our people and the Crown and, you know, all the parties involved. So we have to have that to be able to have the truth before reconciliation, so we can get on with, you know, the work.

HM: You know, yesterday we heard on the program from the Metis Nation of Alberta President Audrey Poitras, and she noted that for some of her citizens, they have told her they don't see renouncing the doctrine as… as a high priority or or necessary for the conversations we're having today. As you said, every nation has its own approach to this, its own views. For a lot of those folks, it's… they talk about forgiveness being a really important aspect of their own recovery. How do you… how do you bring those two things together?

CJW: Well, first of all, with the Metis like in B.C. in particular, proper title holders, our nations, have the proper titles to the lands. And that's in the, you know, the colonial words. But, you know, we were the original occupants of the land. So, through the title flows rights for our people. The government has legislation; they call it distinction-based legislation that they have to adhere to. But in B.C., we hold title to our lands and the rights that flow from our lands. So that's the issue there. Any… any guest that came into our territory, whether it be the fur traders, the government or Metis, they had to have an understanding with our people to graze, hunt or fish or be… be on our land. So that's the historical issue there. As proper title holders, our situation is different. We want our land back. We want a recognition to our land. We need to shift that paradigm to be able to have that reconciliation.

HM: This has just been the second full day of the Pope's visit. There's some days to come. Do you hold out any hope that something might happen in the coming days in terms of those records the church holds, the artifacts, a more fulsome apology or the Doctrine of Discovery that would make the visit feel more worthwhile to you?

CJW: I hope for the next few days, and I'm going to continue to do what I need to do. And while I was here at the Commonwealth, you know, when I did that in Maskwacis about, you know, saying out loud, you know, the… repudiate the Doctrine of Discovery and renounce the papel bulls and genocide. There was a person here that did that, too. And I just smiled because I thought, you know, some people are listening. Some people are getting it, right? So, I was happy to see that. [chuckling] So that kind of got me kind of hopeful today. So, I'm kind of glad I'm on your show today to share it.

HM: Do you think the church is listening? Because they obviously know how important this is, not just to Indigenous people but a lot of Canadian Catholics as well. Do you think they're hearing voices like yours who say they haven't gone far enough and need to take this further?

CJW: Well, I think it's incumbent on them to open their hearts and minds and their spirit to that. Otherwise, it's not… it's like a false reconciliation. How can you not look at the truth for what it is and say, well, we're… we're doing this for the Indigenous people. Oh, we're doing that, but not really addressing the core issues. So, my hope is that they will get more educated, but there is limited places to do that. So I'm working on that as well.

HM: Chief Wilson, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

CJW: Thank you.

CH: Chief Judy Wilson is head of the Neskonlith Indian Band. She's also the secretary-treasurer of the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs. We reached her in Edmonton.

[indie rock]

Women's Tour de France

Guest: Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio

[sc]

ANNOUNCER: The stage went in a yellow jersey. But here comes Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig in the Danish champion's jersey. After a day of disaster yesterday, it's going to be victory! And Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig takes an absolute blinder of a stage victory here on stage three. What a recovery.

[/sc]

CH: Yesterday, she crashed. And today, she faced an especially hilly course. But after a lot of ups and downs -- literal and not -- Danish cyclist Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig crossed the finish line first in Épernay, France today -- to win stage three of the Tour de France. Now, if you pay attention to cycling, you know that the Tour de France finished on Sunday. But that was for the men. This year, for the first time in more than 30 years, women are racing for the yellow jersey in the Tour de France Femmes. Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio is pro cyclist from South Africa. We reached her in Troyes, France.

HM: Ashleigh, we just heard the winner of stage three crossing the finish line, and you were right behind her in third place. What was it like for you to cross that line today?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO: Yeah, it was really satisfying to cross the finish line third. Okay, a bit disappointing, of course, because I came really sort of close or was in good position to go for the stage victory. But at the end of the day, it was a great day. I had good legs. I felt strong. I was an aggressor on the climbs. So I can take a lot of confidence from my performance today. And, yeah, I mean my overall… my goal is the overall on the GC. So, yeah, it's all… it's all going in the good way.

HM: Now, what was it like for you to ride through Paris on Sunday?

AMP: That was really special. So, it's my 13th season now as a pro, so I've really seen how cycling or women's cycling has grown over the years and how we've made such amazing progress. And, you know, for many, many years, I've dreamt of racing the Tour de France because that was how I first, you know, was introduced to cycling, was watching the men race the Tour de France. And when I first started as a pro, I didn't quite understand,. You know, why…. why we couldn't do the same. And so for many years, you know, I've been advocating for equity and to… to help women's cycling move forward. So, sharing my insights and, you know, my vision for… for how it needs to change. And just to see that happen and unfold within my career. You know, at some point, I thought it would never happen in my career while I was still riding. So, to be on the start line as a cyclist racing on the Champs-Élysées at the Tour de France Femmes, which is the biggest race in the world, and with the entire world watching, it was really, really a special moment.

HM: In fact, it's been more than 30 years to get this thing back on the road. What kind of fight was it to get this women's Tour de France going?

AMP: Well, it's… it's kind of been quite a frustrating process, you know, because we've always known, or many of us have known for many years now, that for women cycling to really take that next step, well, firstly, we needed better exposure. And then, we needed continuity in exposure. So, you know, slowly but surely we've kind of ticked off the boxes. But the one thing that was missing was racing the biggest race in the world, which is the Tour de France. You know, there's something special about the Tour de France. If you meet someone on the street and they don't really ride their bike or necessarily completely follow cycling, they'll know about the Tour de France. And that's just what makes it so important, is that the entire world… I mean, we just see it here, you know? There are big races that we race, but we have never experienced anything like this. You know, racing the Tour de France, there's just so many people out to watch. And, you know, even just having had a good performance today and just all the messages and social media posts that I'm seeing of people that were watching and seeing how I rode today. And that's when you just realize how big it is. And, yeah, and then, you know, the significance of that, of course, is that young girls can finally turn on the television and watch the biggest race in the world. And they see women racing.

HM: Yeah.

AMP: And that's what makes it so important because they have heroes and… and idols to look up to, and they can actually aspire to be pro cyclists themselves.

HM: Strangely, the pandemic has kind of played a role in getting this thing going. There was a virtual Tour de France in 2020. You won stage five of that. How did that virtual race snowball into the real deal?

AMP: Yeah, well, that's actually a good, good point because, you know, when the COVID pandemic hit, and we couldn't race our bikes in real life because of the lockdowns all around the world, you know, many people thought that this would be a bit of a step back, you know, for women's cycling. But it was the exact opposite. When the Tour de France couldn't happen in real life, in 2020, and the ASO, the organization that organizes the Tour de France, they approached Zwift to do a virtual Tour de France so that they could still keep some kind of relevance in this challenging year. And, of course, Zwift said, sure, but there has to be one for the woman. And, of course, I prioritized the queen stage, which was the mountaintop finish, and I won it. And it was really incredible because the next day, someone pulled up next to me in a car and stuck their phone camera out of the window to take a video. And that's when I realized the significance of it, you know? How important it is for people to… to see us. And then, Zwift backing it up and becoming a title sponsor, here we are today.

HM: You know, in an interview with The Guardian last year, the Tour de France race director said that this new race, quote, mustn't lose money or will end up like the tour in the eighties, and it will die. Does that give you any confidence that the organization is… is behind this? Is really going to promote a women's Tour de France going forward?

AMP: Actually, I saw an article yesterday or the day before on Twitter where the Tour de France organization, the ASO, have said that the numbers are stacking up. And that I think there was three million local viewers in Paris on… on TV on Sunday. So, they said that they're very happy and that… that the investment has been worth it. So, I think that the numbers speak, you know? And the fans and the people that are interested, and that's what we need.

HM: What kind of response are you getting on the streets? Are people coming out to watch and cheer you on?

AMP: We're getting an incredible response. So, just the same as the men's race. I mean, the crowds out on the road are exactly the same. The people are out in force, and they're supporting, they're making signs and, you know, even bicycles made out of flowers and all these things that you see in the men's race. We're seeing it again, you know, for us and the women. And it's just really, really incredible to see that and just to realize that our sport is definitely on an upward trend.

HM: You still have five stages left. What are you most looking forward to?

AMP: Well, tomorrow is going to be quite an exciting stage because we have a gravel… gravel sections leading into the final. So that's going to spice things up a little bit. And it's also going to be pretty similar to the short, steep climb. So, it's going to be explosive and exciting. And then, I'm looking forward to the mountains. Yeah, that's my real strength.

HM: Ashleigh, best of luck to you. It sounds like you're really enjoying the moment. And it's nice to hear you tell us about it.

AMP: Thanks so much, Helen. It's been great chatting.

HM: Okay, bye-bye.

AMP: Bye.

CH: Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio is a professional cyclist who is competing in the Tour de France Femmes. We reached her in Troyes, France.

[calypso]

Oyster Mascot

Guest: Christine Oreskovich

CH: When you first see her, you get lost in her piercing green eyes. Which is understandable because there are thirteen of them. Then, your gaze is drawn to her full, shiny lips. And then, you're struck by her courage -- because the humans surrounding Pearl are shucking oysters with glee. And Pearl herself is a giant oyster. She's also one of the mascots of the Halifax Oyster Festival. And when a photo of her started making the rounds on social media this week, she was met with fascination and horror. Christine Oreskovich is the publisher of Halifax's alt-weekly newspaper The Coast, and she helped create Pearl. We reached her in Halifax.

HM: Christine, Pearl has been described as terrifying, a “Doctor Who” villain and a new Addams Family member. How would you describe Pearl?

CHRISTINE ORESKOVICH: Oh, she's a hard-working, salty oyster that's working hard cleaning the ocean every day. [laughing] She is… we are so thrilled that the world has finally embraced this salty, sexy mascot of our festival.

HM: What makes her sexy? Describe her appearance.

CO: [laughing] She has a large head. She's got great legs. She is someone who has lots of moves on the dance floor. On her large head, she has many eyes that could be barnacles, could be eyes. She has a great sort of colouring, a sort of grey and silver and burgundies. And really, when you look at an oyster shell, it's sort of the colours that the ocean brings us.

HM: I understand she has very full, potentially kissable lips?

CO: [laughing] Yes, I forget the lips! And beautiful lips. She was from the mind of a beautiful and talented artist we had that worked with us at our newspaper, Aziza. And when we needed a really interesting kind of piece of art at the festival, we said, Hey, Aziza, could you draw us something? And two hours later, she came back with Pearl, and it was just… it was really all her. I have to give her the credit there.

HM So, based on that drawing, you guys make this 3-D costume version of Pearl. Why did you decide [laughing] you needed to bring her to life?

CO: [laughing as well] It's a papier maché. It's like the best of high school art, but done by a local artist named Helah Cooper here in Halifax. And we wanted an edge to our festival. It's the largest oyster festival in Canada. We eat and shuck thousands of oysters and, you know, it's sort of at night, it's foggy. We're all in our big scarves and our rubber boots and we're by the ocean. And it was sort of just we wanted something to be at the festival that was sort of that extra Instagrammable fun.

HM: You say edge, but isn't it kind of morbid having Pearl presiding over a festival that's all about the eating of her brethren?

CO: [laughing] It's a family affair. Like, we have not stopped laughing for the last couple of days. [HM chuckles] The memes that are coming out of this, I can tell. And we laughed at…. my favourite is there's one from a food festival in Hiroshima that has this beautiful, sweet, fuzzy, cute little oyster. And then, someone put our oyster, our Pearl, beside it and, you know, the difference is striking.

HM: Even those of us who, like oysters might find Pearl a little disturbing. I mean, what do you think it is [CO laughs] about this specific oyster that has… has caused this response?

CO: I don't know what. I mean, we've talked about it in the office. And we were like, is it because she has sort of feminine, like, qualities like her… her great legs or her lips? And, you know, she does have a companion named Earl, who is --

HM: Yeah. Tell us about him. Is that her lover?

CO: [chuckle] No, they're just companions. They're friends. There’s no… you know, they're… like, we say, they're bivalve curious. [both laugh] So, you know, they're just… they're just friends at the festival. But he… we had such a fun and successful time with Pearl we made Earl. And, you know, he's not… I would say they’re, you know, male and female. And he doesn't get the same response.

HM: Now, we spoke with someone from the Mic Mac Mall in Dartmouth in the winter about a different Nova Scotia mascot, Woody the Christmas Tree. What do you think it is that makes people in your province so drawn to these creepy characters?

CO: [laughing] Woody the talking Christmas Tree, yes! And we also had Theodore, which was… who? Theodore was sold away. And he lives in Hamilton, I think. Hamilton, Ontario.

HM: That Theodore Tugboat, right?

CO: Yes! Yes!

HM: But he's not creepy. Theodore’s not creepy.

CO: Oh, yeah, he's definitely creepy. [HM chuckles] He has that smile all the time and his eyes are kind of to the side. He's always looking at you. I don't know. You know, I… there's something where there's a sense of place and something that's unique to your city or to your province or to your town that really people want to latch on to. And Woody the Talking Christmas tree was so huge. It went on Jimmy Fallon. I think every kid from the seventies and eighties definitely went there to the mall and had Woody speak to you.

HM: Have you had any… any of the, like, American talk shows or anything reach out to you? Because Pearl seems like she'd be a perfect guest.

CO: Not yet! [laughing]

HM: There's always time.

CO: There's always time, yes. Well, Pearl right now is in our storage locker, and someone, as we're speaking, is over there getting her out. And we're going to get her a little tuned up and get her out earlier before the festival to get her out on the waterfront, get her on the boardwalk and, you know, sort of take advantage of her notoriety that she's… you know, we haven't had the festival for two years because of COVID. So, she's been in our storage locker. So, we're hoping to revive her.

HM: Congratulations to you and Pearl and Earl for all the fame, [CO laughing] and I hope it brings more people to town for the festival. Thanks for talking to us.

CO: Oh, shucks. Thanks so much.

HM: [chuckling] Oh, dear! Bye.

CO: Bye.

CH: Christine Oreskovich is the publisher of Halifax's alt-weekly newspaper, The Coast. She was in Halifax.

[circus music?]

Fabergé Egg

CH: A lot of people think their problems would disappear if they became extremely wealthy. But that's not true. In fact, the extremely wealthy have one major problem the rest of us don't have. Which is: struggling to find the most conspicuous way to show that they’re extremely wealthy. Now, you could spend over five billion dollars on a rocket in order to go to space for four minutes. But [awkward chuckle] that would be ridiculous. Which is why so many billionaires just buy themselves a simple superyacht. Something like the Amadea -- which is believed to be the superyacht that U.S. authorities recently seized. It's a 300-million-dollar aquatic monstrosity owned by a Russian oligarch. It is 100 metres long, and full of common-sense stuff you need on a boat, like two cinemas and an infinity pool and a spa. But it's also full of extremely valuable art. Including -- according to the Americans -- a Fabergé egg. Yes, one of the vanishingly rare, gorgeously ornate, extremely fragile eggs, of which there are fewer than 60 on Earth. I'll reiterate: they found this on a boat, which goes on the ocean. The same ocean where they have big waves. Now, the truth is that it's probably fake. Which means this Russian oligarch was trying to trick people into thinking he had a Fabergé egg on his superyacht. Even for a boat that's the definition of "a little much", that's a little much. And if it isn't real, then he and his pretend masterpiece are both bad eggs.

[ambient]

Part 2: Papal Visit: Catholic Teacher, Rowing Record

Papal Visit: Catholic Teacher

Guest: Tammy Chrusch

CH: Earlier in the show, we spoke with Chief Judy Wilson -- an Indigenous chief who is hoping for more from Pope Francis on his visit to Canada than an apology. But beyond reconciliation, Pope Francis's visit is the first papal visit since 2002. And Catholics from across the country have been excited to host him -- as evidenced by his congregation at the Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton today, which numbered 65,000 Catholic faithful. Tammy Chrusch was among them. She's is a lifelong Catholic and a teacher at Holy Trinity Catholic School in Olds, Alberta.

HM: Tammy, what was it like for you today to attend a mass surrounded by thousands of your fellow Catholics, conducted by Pope Francis himself in your own country and in your own province?

TAMMY CHRUSCH: It was really neat to see him at home. I've seen Pope Francis before at World Youth Day in Poland. But there was something really special today when he came in this morning into Edmonton on Canadian soil, drove around in the Popemobile, kissing all the babies as he went. It was just really nice to see him here in our home. And I honestly was overcome with emotion. My eyes filled with tears, and I was just so happy that he was here, especially to recognize the Catholic Church's role in residential schools. He’s here to start the journey towards reconciliation. Yeah, it was really powerful to see our whole faith community coming together and worshiping at mass together. It was a really beautiful start to the day.

HM: You drove several hours to get there. I'm sure there were a lot of security lines and that sort of thing. Why was it so important to you to be there to bear witness to this in person?

TC: I think it's kind of like a once-in-a-lifetime thing for the pope to be here at home. It just seems like the perfect opportunity to experience it. He's coming for a good reason, and it was a powerful way to pray together in our faith community. And also, just as a teacher, I think that is a really powerful way now for me to go back into the classroom in September, into my Catholic school and share about how seeing the Pope here really just bridged our community and that we are a universal church. It doesn't matter where you are or where you're from, you belong here. And having Pope Francis come here and be in our home was really special.

HM: You mentioned the purpose of the visit, the reconciliation effort, the apology. Do you feel that so far, yesterday and today, he has said the right things? That he has struck the right tone?

TC: I do. I think that he was very clear and he looked very struck with emotion. And I think that when you come, and you experience it in real life, right, not just hearing about it, it does change your emotion towards it. And so, I think that it was good that he came and not just, you know, made a public apology from Rome. Although I'm sure yesterday was very hard for a lot of Indigenous people, this is the first step in reconciliation. And I think that it was a really positive thing for both the Catholic Church and the Indigenous communities in our province to experience.

HM: As you know, some of the people who… who have heard him so far don't think he's gone quite far enough. And one of the things we hear is that they would like to hear not just an apology for the actions of some people, but for the policies of the church itself, for its historic policies. They'd like the Pope to apologize on behalf of the entire church. As someone who is, you know, a devout Catholic, would that be something you would support?

TC: He spoke already on behalf of the Catholic Church. I don’t know how much more specific necessarily he can be? And I think as long as we're trying to move forward and trying to recognize and acknowledge the harm that's been done, I think that then positive things will continue to happen.

HM: What more positive things would you like to see going forward to try and… and repair this relationship and also to try and help some of the people who have been so hurt by the history?

TC: Absolutely. I do think that the 99 calls to action need to be definitely taken into consideration by both the Catholic Church and the government. We need to continue to work towards reconciling those pieces. I think as a… as the Catholic Church, we can educate each other and educate our families, our kids so that… so that we're aware, right? Because if you know better, you do better. And I just think that some of the really important things that need to happen in our communities is that our Indigenous communities need clean water. And they need their mental health supported. And I think that those would be really good places for our church and our government to be starting. We need to build community and build up basic rights again. And I think that with mental health and the basic right of clean drinking water would be a really good space to be starting.

HM: What might you say to Catholics who have lost their faith because of the actions of the church? Whether it's the role in residential schools or sexual abuse scandals in those schools or elsewhere? What are your thoughts on your feelings and what you'd say to them?

TC: I think that that's a fair feeling or emotion to have when you've been hurt by someone or by the church is to want to walk away. But I also think that our church is working to build its community back up. And I think that if we as a church open our arms to people who are hurt, that we can begin to embrace those who have walked away, listen to their experiences, and walk alongside them and meet them where they're at in hopes that they can potentially find their faith again and be reconciled with God and with themselves and with the people who hurt them.

HM: What keeps your faith strong as a Catholic in Canada right now?

TC: Honestly, my community, I think that community is a big piece of faith. And that when we support one another in our highs and in our lows, and we walk beside each other, I know it's not always easy, and I myself struggle with my faith all the time. So as the whole community of the Catholic Church, we really need to work on reaching out and building faith, because, honestly, that's what keeps me in church. And that's what keeps me growing in my faith is the people around me that love and support me.

HM: Tammy, thank you for speaking with us. I appreciate it.

TC: No problem.

HM: Take care. Bye-bye.

TC: Thank you. Bye.

CH: We reached Tammy Chrusch on the road from Edmonton back to her hometown of Olds, Alberta.

[folk]

FOA: David Trimble Obit

CH: At a key point in his political career, David Trimble took a surprising risk -- and helped make history. Mr. Trimble started out as a Protestant hardliner in Northern Ireland. But in the 1990s, he joined in the Good Friday peace process that eventually put an end to the decades of violence known as The Troubles. For that, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, along with his onetime Catholic adversary John Hume. David Trimble died yesterday after a short illness. He was 77. The peace process in Northern Ireland was difficult. Violence threatened to derail it on several occasions. In July 1998, three young Catholic boys -- the Quinn brothers -- died when their house was firebombed. They were 11, nine, and seven years old. The attack happened during a period of loyalist violence and Protestant demonstrations. At the time, David Trimble was first minister of Northern Ireland. He visited the Quinn family -- and afterward, he spoke to As It Happens guest host Ann Medina. Here is part of their conversation, from our archives.

[sc]

ANN MEDINA: Mr. Trimble, this must have been one of the toughest days of your political life?

DAVID TRIMBLE: Well, we've had many tragic events in Northern Ireland over the course of the last 30 years. But I must say the fire at Ballymoney, which took the lives of three young boys, was a particularly ghastly affair. And, of course, has caused a wave of revulsion throughout Northern Ireland.

AM: How… how is the Quinn family doing?

DT: It's remarkable how well people do on these occasions, although clearly, it is an awful tragedy to strike them. And they will obviously have considerable difficulty adjusting to it.

AM: The irony, of course, is that the parents of the three boys, one is Catholic and one is Protestant, and one sees, you know, here's an example of both sides living together. And yet, this is the result.

DT: Well, it's not just the immediate parents were mixed in terms of religion, but a few of the grandparents as well. And in some areas in Northern Ireland this is not uncommon. But, unfortunately, on this particular part of Ballymoney, last week, there had been a series of sectarian threats in a predominantly Protestant area. But there are a number of Catholic families living in the area. And a number of threatening letters accompanied by bullets went out. And then we had this petrol bomb attack. Every time someone launches a petrol bomb attack on a house, there carries with it the possibility of a tragedy of this nature. And it's just quite appalling that the three young boys who were there were all killed.

AM: We have seen the firebombing. Just today, I understand police defuzed a 200-kilogram car bomb. We saw arsonists attack a Catholic elementary school.

DT: Um-hmmm. And we saw over the weekend, too, the police in London intercepting a series of bombers with explosives about to plant in the centre of London. We have a conflict there. I still hope that we are coming out of that situation. So while we're all appalled at what has happened, particularly to the Quinn family, I'm still confident that we're going to come out of this and recreate again in Northern Ireland a situation where everybody can live at peace and at ease with each other, and will not find the need to take offence at the sight of someone who happens to have a different political persuasion.

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CH: Northern Irish politician David Trimble speaking to Ann Medina on As It Happens in July 1998. Mr. Trimble died yesterday. He was 77.

[vocalization]

Rowing Record

Guest: Brooke Downes

CH: Think of everything you've done since June 21, just over a month ago. All the places you've been, the hours you've worked, the many and varied activities you've done. Well, since June 21st, four women have done exactly one thing. Just the one. But they've done it non-stop. They've been rowing. And rowing and rowing. All the way from California to Hawaiii. And last night, there was a major celebration in Honolulu, when that four-women rowing team known as Lat35 finally arrived. They had made it all the way from San Francisco -- 2,400 nautical miles -- rowing in shifts around the clock for 34 days, 14 hours and 11 minutes. Which handily breaks the women's world record for the trek by a full day. We reached team member Brooke Downes in Honolulu.

HM: Brooke, congratulations.

BROOKE DOWNES: Oh, thank you.

HM: After almost 35 days on the open sea, what is the nicest thing about being on land?

BD: I think just being here with my friends and family. And also, you know, my team and their friends and family. It's just been such a blast, just feeling all the love from everybody, just honestly from the whole community was absolutely incredible.

HM: Were your legs pretty wobbly when you hit land?

BD: I was not prepared for my inability to walk. When we were doing our final stretch, we were joking about who we thought would be the worst. And my team was like, I think it's going to be Brooke. I don't think she's going to remember what it's like to be 5’11 after being about three feet tall for over a month. I felt like I was going to fall over a couple of times.

HM: It's so exciting, on the one hand, to have this record. And on the other hand, I have to ask, are you relieved it's done?

BD: It's a weird feeling. I actually… I'm so excited to be here and celebrating. But the relief of being done is more the relief that, you know, we had a very successful row, not so much the relief of not having to be on the boat anymore. Because I did really enjoy my time. And the people we've talked to that have done these crossings had mentioned that once you're back on land, you're going to wish that you were back on the boat. And I didn't really believe them until now. But last night, when I was, you know, alone in my hotel room, first time being alone and over a month, I… I felt like I should be on the boat still and that I kind of wanted to be in a way. I'm definitely happy to be back on land and everything, but it's a very weird feeling to kind of almost wish you were back in the comfort of your little cabin.

HM: Now you were able to post updates on your Instagram page, and a lot of those pictures include the four of you laughing and joking together. I'm sure there were, you know, difficult times along the way, too, though. So can you tell me about the kind of bonds you managed to form with your teammates during the journey?

BD: Yeah. So when we were making our mission statement and making the values that we wanted to carry with us, one of them was Joy. And we kind of talked beforehand expecting this to be, you know, really hard and kind of miserable, but just saying, you know, it doesn't have to be terrible the entire time. And I think we really were able to bring that to the row. And we actually ended up having a much more enjoyable and fun time than any of us ever expected. And many nights in the middle of the crossing that I was getting completely beaten up by the ocean just from the seat I was in. And the way that the waves were hitting that seat in particular, I was getting knocked off. You know, I felt like I was going to go in a couple of times. And I had my teammates behind me just, you know, laughing and joking about it. And they were able to make something that could have been really, really, really frustrating something that was actually kind of fun in a way.

HM: Besides that experience, is there any other moment, good or bad, that… that especially stands out for you?

BD: I think one of the biggest highlights was the time that we took to jump into the water. It was a really beautiful day and it's really interesting being out in the middle of the ocean and expecting all these huge waves, which we definitely had, but it's not like that the entire time. Some days were like glass. It was like looking at a lake with zero wind. And you're like, how can we be in the middle of the ocean with no wind? And so we took that time to jump in the water and be in a spot on earth that probably no other human had ever been before. And it was just really special for all of us to enjoy that together. And like, it's a moment that I'm so lucky to have and I, like, just… I'm smiling so big right now, just like reflecting on, like, all the feelings of that entire day that, you know, we got to do that.

HM: It sounds pretty magical. You made the voyage to raise funds for the Anxiety and Depression Association of America. I mean, you think about it. You just put yourself through this gruelling experience. What did you learn about taking care of yourself and reaching out for the support of others from this experience?

BD: I think one of the parallels about doing this row and, you know, dealing with mental illness and struggling and, you know, finding help is that you… you can't take care of the people around you unless you take care of yourself first. And that was, you know, really crucial during our row and our crossing. We want to help each other as much as possible, but I can't help my teammate if I'm not taking care of myself first. We all have been to therapy before and seen struggles in friends and family. And so, it was an organization that we really wanted to help and kind of just share with the world that it's okay to need help. And this is an organization that has the tools that people may need, and we just really wanted to share that with everybody.

HM: For people who are out there listening to you, perhaps awestruck and thinking that they could just never do what you four did, what do you hope that they might take away from what you were able to achieve?

BD: I really hope that anybody that, you know, hears our story really understands how normal all four of us are. And for me, before doing this, I kind of always wondered what these people that do these huge crossings or adventure races or free soloing, like, what… what is the thing that they have that I don't have? And then kind of changing that to the question of, like, is there something that they have that I don't? Like, let's go find out. And, you know, we're not superhuman. I'm not special in any way, shape or form. I just, you know, said yes to something that I wanted to do and committed to it and found people that were able to help me do it. And that's kind of all you need. And I hope that everybody listening and watching our story really understands that, like, I'm not different than anybody else.

HM: Well, you sure accomplished something pretty special. Please pass on our congratulations to your teammates, and… and thank you for talking to us.

BD: Oh, I will. Thank you so much.

CH: Brooke Downes is a member of the Lat35 rowing team. We reached her in Honolulu, Hawaii.

[surf rock]

Ferry Fire

CH: Once again today, ferry service between Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island was cancelled as fire investigators continue working to understand what caused Friday's fire aboard the MV Holiday Island, that forced more than 200 passengers to abandon ship. Which is annoying for travellers, no doubt. But that's not really what's on volunteer firefighter Tyler Spencer's mind today. He was one of the first to board the ferry and attempt to tackle the blaze - one of the many volunteers who were part of the response. He spoke to CBC News earlier today.

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TYLER SPENCER: There was already quite a few emergency vehicles on scene, the ferry out in the water with smoke billowing out of the stacks, which is, yeah, not a sight that I ever want to see again. The… the boat had a bit of a list. It was leaning over a little bit when we… we made boarding. But yeah, it was kind of surreal being on there knowing that it was on fire, but there was no visible fire to attack. The only thing we could do was cool the decks, so we just had people manning the hoses, spraying the floor and the walls where the fire was. There was a large fuel tank on the very top observation deck that needed to be kept cool. So we just made sure that we had firefighters manning hoses on top, and that was all we could do. There was no access to the fire itself without compromising the whole ship and the safety of everybody on board.

KATE MCKENNA: You mentioned the large fuel tank. At any point, are you worried about --

TS: We were worried when we found out what it was. There was a little bit of miscommunication with the crew as they obviously were under a lot of stress. And some of the things made it obvious to us what it was. But it was a large fuel tank. And as soon as we found out what it was, we used our thermal imaging camera to detect how hot surfaces are. And it was… it was very hot. It was 295 degrees Fahrenheit at one point. And that's when we realized that we need to get more hand lines on there and keep that surface cool. I'm absolutely amazed that we didn't have any serious injuries. There was a few minor injuries from… from passengers coming off the boat. But to be expected with the number of people and obviously they're not trained to do anything like that. And then, with the sheer number of firefighters boarding the ferry and then exiting the ferry and then going to shore, there was no injuries that way. Like I said, there was a constant rotation of people. And for no injuries, I'm just absolutely astounded.

[/sc]

CH: Tyler Spencer speaking with the CBC's Kate McKenna. Mr. Spencer is a volunteer firefighter with the Murray River Fire Department on P.E.I., one of many local volunteer fire services that responded to the ferry fire on Friday.

[uke!!!]

FOA: Marmite Prices

CH: It's no secret that the global economy is tanking, and inflation is soaring. And it's easy to get lost in the statistics and the graphs. But in the U.K., things just got real. According to the Guardian, in recent months the price of Marmite yeast extract has risen by a full 11 per cent. And parent company Unilever said the price of the catastrophically salty, inexplicably popular tar-like goo climb even higher -- because the outlook for the economy is, quote: "uncertain and volatile." Which seems like an apt description of what the reaction might be from Marmite lovers. Speaking of which, in 2009, As It Happens spoke with Jim Keary -- not that one, the manager of the W. Grose Shell Garage in England -- after a thief stole 18 jars of Marmite from his shelves.

[sc]

JIM KEARY: [laughing] It's crazy, isn't it? We had a delivery of it in, put it on the shelves. Next day, it had gone. We checked our records to see if it had been sold and it hadn't. So, we then started to look through CCTV, and lo and behold, this man comes in and takes it.

MARGO KELLY: So, if you've got a picture of him from CCTV, why hasn't your staff caught him yet?

JK: The thing is, they always tend to sort of come in when the shop's busy. He’s in there less than two minutes, in his bag and off he goes. He’s even put it in his pockets. Yeah, he's been in four times that we know of.

MK: Well, what's your theory? Do you think he has a big family of Marmite lovers? Or what do you think he's using all of this Marmite for?

JK: I really don't know. I mean, there's been lots of suggestions that he's hiding drugs in the pots because the sniffer dogs wouldn't be out to smell it. It's been suggested that he may be from Poland and he's exporting it out to Poland. He's a bald man, and some have even suggested he might be rubbing it on his head to make his hair grow.

MK: [laughing] That a good one.

JK: To be quite honest, it's not a very nice product that you'd want a lot of it. But they do say on their adverts, you either love it or you hate it.

MK: It's the Marmite mystery.

JK: It certainly is.

[/sc]

CH: [laughing] It's not a very nice product. From our archives, guest host Margo Kelly speaking with Jim Keary -- manager of the W. Grose Shell Garage in Kingsthorpe, England. And for those keeping score at home, Kingsthorpe is approximately 929,824 Marmite jars north of Reading.

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June 26, 2022 Episode Transcript

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