Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2022

The AIH Transcript for May 16th, 2022

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: Hello, I'm Robyn Bresnahan.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight

RB: Shelter after the storm. A pastor whose church is near the Buffalo supermarket where 10 Black people were killed this weekend describes his efforts to help a heartbroken community.

CH: Cautious optimism. A resident and researcher in a newly liberated Kharkiv describes Russia's retreat from the city -- and tells us why she stayed put during its occupation.

RB: The courage after his convictions. The late David Milgaard spent 23 years behind bars for a crime he didn't commit, before becoming an advocate for the wrongfully convicted. Our guest says he'll continue his friend's work.

CH: Ripped from the headlines, the luxury fashion house Balenciaga is offering a pair of torn, scuffed, fully-destroyed sneakers for $2,300 bucks. And critics think the designer should do some soul searching.

RB: Menage a paw. At first, a Tennessee couple was shocked and confused to find a stranger cuddled between them in bed. And when they realized the stranger was a friendly dog, they were relieved but still confused.

CH: And… the butt of the yolk. Our guest says the people behind a new Margaret Thatcher statue in the Iron Lady's hometown should have assumed it would be egged within minutes of being installed, which it was.

CH: As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that guesses someone in town had prepared an eggs-it strategy.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Buffalo Pastor, David Milgaard Obit, Random Dog In Bed

Buffalo Pastor

Guest: Pastor Darius G. Pridgen

CH: Ruth Whitfield spent her Saturday morning looking after her husband of 68 years in a Buffalo nursing home before heading to the supermarket to grab some groceries. She never made it home. The 86-year-old was the oldest of 10 Black people who were killed when a white gunman in military gear opened fire in the store with an assault rifle. Police say the gunmen was motivated by racism. Today, Ruth Whitfield's son Garnell Whitfield Jr. spoke about how their family is coping.

[sc]

GARNELL WHITFIELD JR.: What I remember most about my mom, what I love most about my mom, is how she loved us, how she loved our family unconditionally. How she sacrificed everything for us. How she gave of herself when she had nothing else to give. She willingly did that for us. And for her to be taken from us, and taken from this world, by someone just full of hate for no reason. For no reason. It's very hard for us to handle right now. But we're not just hurting. We're angry. We're mad. This shouldn't have happened.

MAN: No, it shouldn't.

GWJ: And you expect us to keep doing this over and over and over again?

WOMAN: All over.

GWJ: Over and over and over again. Forgive and forget. While the people we elect and trust in offices around this country do their best not to protect us, not to consider a equal. What are we supposed to do with all of this anger? With all of this pain?

[/sc]

CH: That was Garnell Whitfield Jr. speaking about his mother Ruth, who was killed in a mass shooting at Tops supermarket in Buffalo. An 18-year-old white man has been charged with first-degree murder. Authorities are also investigating a 180-page racist manifesto that they say was posted online by the gunman. Darius G. Pridgen is the pastor at True Bethel Baptist Church, which is about two kilometres from the supermarket. We reached him in Buffalo.

RB: Pastor Pridgen, how would you answer that last question by Garnell Whitfield Jr., who asked what are we supposed to do with all of this anger and all of this pain?

PASTOR DARIUS G. PRIDGEN: You know, I would answer it the way I've been answering it for the last two days is to transfer that anger into action. You know, many communities across the United States have been crying out about gun violence, have been crying out about the proliferation of guns on our streets and the easy accessibility to them, and really wanting more attention to those who illegally sell guns or manufacture guns that are made really for wartime and put them out on the streets. So, it is about taking that pain and turning it into an action.

RB: What was the first thing you thought about when you woke up this morning?

PDGP: The first thing I thought about when I woke up this morning was, I hope this is a dream. That's the first thing. I looked and went to the window and realized that it wasn't a dream. That's the first thing I think about.

RB: You've said that you don't feel like a pastor right now but like a boy from Buffalo who is grieving. Can you tell us what you mean by that?

PDGP: Yeah. You know, all these titles that are in front of my name or in back of my name mean absolutely nothing to me right now. Not that they usually do, but right now, it means even less. And the reason is because after a while, and after… after something like this, you recognize how human you are, how close to death you could have been. You hurt with those who are hurting. But the… the weight of carrying a title right now or needing to be anything else is really not healthy for me personally right now. It's just being Darius and caring, and being able to grieve like our community and just taking a breather from needing to lead. Although I'm still in the front, but turning around to hug and to be a part of the grieving will help me to make better decisions when I need to be back on the stage of the common council.

RB: You say you realize that it could happen to any one of you. Have you been to that supermarket before?

PDGP: It is a supermarket I’d shop at. I live two blocks away from the supermarket. It is the only supermarket within walking distance in our community. I was there the day before. I left my house a little after 2 to go down to get a pack of hot dogs and decided to go and find a restaurant and buy a cooked one instead. My laziness may have kept me alive. At the end of the day, that's our grocery store. So it's not something a store I know about. It’s a store I’m in at least once a week.

RB: How are you reflecting on that now?

PDGP: You know, what I'm reflecting on more is my kids. I still have two teenagers at home and my wife. You know, for me, I'm a military vet. I've always had my mind condition of the… of giving my life when needed. However, my children shouldn't have to be conditioned about their life and being afraid of their life to go into a grocery store. And if… if this gunman accomplishes nothing more, it is about that kind of on edge fear, especially when you look at the amount of senior citizens that he gunned down and killed without any remorse. That… that's how I'm feeling. I'm feeling afraid for my neighbourhood. I'm… I'm feeling… my feelings are all over the place.

RB: How do you talk to your kids about that?

PDGP: Directly. I talk to them directly about it. My wife yesterday when I came home, and after doing so many interviews, she was going to send my 13-year-old upstairs as we kind of debriefed. And I said, nope, he can stay right here if he wants to because I need him to know the reality. He's getting older. I need him to know that he is a Black man living in America in which everybody is not for him. And I need him to know that so that he will go to school and get an education. So he will try to help change the world as much as possible. So I deal with him directly. No sugarcoating.

RB: Pastor, did you know any of the victims personally?

PDGP: Absolutely. The security guard.Definitely knew him. Knew him when he was a Buffalo police officer. Would see him when I would go in Tops. He would escort me back to my car. A woman by the name of that we call Kat. Who wrote a lot of op-ed pieces here. She lived in our district. I've been to her house. And in Buffalo, and in the east side, there's only about two degrees of separation. So, almost every person who has died, there is a connection.

RB: Authorities say that they're investigating a very disturbing manifesto that was allegedly written by the gunman, which talks about this very racist, great replacement theory. I mean, how do you make sense of the fact that Black people in your community were so directly targeted?

PDGP: You know, I don't think you can. I can't make sense out of a senseless situation. I've read portions of the manifesto. I've watched the video, and there is no sense to it. There is no excuse for it. And I'm not… I'm not probably in a good place to try to make sense of a killer's motivation. But what I do make sense of is trying to heal our community and ensure that there's peace in our community. So, that… that's what I can make sense. But this person, this animal, I don't make any sense of anything he's done.

RB: What were you looking for when you read parts of that manifesto?

PDGP: I was looking and hoping that what I was told was incorrect. That there isn't anybody alive who has that much hate for a race of people. And unfortunately, I was disappointed because I found everything that I was hoping I wouldn't.

RB: As a pastor, you are the one who was trying to provide strength and maybe solace to people. I mean, who's giving that back to you right now? Because you must be really hurting?

PDGP: In all honesty, many people have tried. I just haven't allowed it at this point. You know, it's a point where people need leadership. They want leadership. I do a lot of funerals in the city. I do the majority of homicide funerals. I have almost trained my brain, whether this is healthy or not, to… to connect without connecting so deeply that I lose myself. So, I said, maybe after we’ve buried our did, then I'll deal with my own self.

RB: Pastor, thank you for taking the time to talk to us today.

PDGP: Thank you for bringing attention to this situation.

RB: Take care.

PDGP: Bye-bye.

CH: Darius G. Pridgen is the pastor at True Bethel Baptist Church in Buffalo. And you can find more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/asithappens.

[Music: Ambient]

David Milgaard Obit

Guest: David Asper

CH: At age 16, most of us dream of a life of limitless possibilities. But when David Milgaard was 16, he was facing a life behind bars. In 1970, the Manitoba teenager was wrongfully convicted for the 1969 rape and murder of Saskatoon nursing aide Gail Miller. Mr. Milgaard spent 23 years in prison -- but always maintained his innocence. Here he is, speaking to The Fifth Estate's Gillian Findlay in 1990.

[sc]

GILLIAN FINDLAY: What was your reaction when they came back, and they said guilty?

DAVID MILGAARD: I turned around, and I saw my father, who is a very big man, and I just seen him look completely weak. And that scared me more than anything else, like, I've ever seen in my life. The newspapers are just talking, blood, rape. Everybody's up in the air about it.

GF: Do you think they were just desperate to convict somebody, and you happen to be it?

DM: Saskatoon was desperate to convict somebody, and they did convict me, yes.

GF: What's the most you're hoping for?

DM: The most I'm hoping for somebody comes up to me and says, David, got a phone call. A decision has been made. They've exonerated you. Go home. That's the best thing that could happen for me.

[/sc]

CH: David Milgaard got his wish after the Supreme Court ordered a new trial. He was later exonerated by DNA evidence. In the decades that followed, he became a fierce advocate for the wrongfully convicted -- up until his death this past weekend at age 69. David Asper is a lawyer who represented David Milgaard. He was also his friend. We reached Mr. Asper in Winnipeg.

RB: Mr. Asper, I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.

DAVID ASPER: Thank you very much. It's… it's very sudden. And I think me and a lot of other people are just truly heartbroken.

RB: What's it like hearing that clip of him?

DA: It… it breaks my heart all over again to hear David described being a 16- or 17-year-old kid who had been scooped up by the police and arrested and charged with the murder and then get that verdict knowing that he was going to be taken away for the rest of his life. It hurts. It just hurts to hear him say it.

RB: How old were you when you first met David Milgaard?

DA: That was 1986, so I was 28.

RB: And this was one of your first major cases as a criminal defence attorney. I mean, what was your first memory of that meeting?

DA: I had never been to a federal penitentiary. And so, I went up to see David. And, you know, I was a bit intimidated by walking into a penitentiary, to begin with. And then when I met David in the… in the interview room area, he was effusive, and he was friendly, and he was gracious. And we had a fantastic first conversation. And I said to him that the only way we were going to be able to make any kind of progress on his behalf was I had to read a whole huge pile of information, and then I had to challenge him. He welcomed it. He said, bring it on. I'm innocent. I did not do this. And off we went.

RB: Did you believe him?

DA: Well, I didn't know. I didn't even… it was hard to comprehend, even as a seasoned lawyer, the scope of this kind of miscarriage of justice. When I met him, he'd been in jail for 17 years. And if he is truly innocent, if that person is truly innocent, it's almost overwhelming to think that that could be possible. So, I didn't know whether he was innocent or not. You couldn't make that conclusion quickly. But what I did come to a conclusion after I had digested and read all the transcripts was that the case against him, the record of the case against him, made no sense to me. And again, David pushed for this. He was very dialled into… into the evidence. He said, take everything that the Crown said and set it in motion and see what happens. But once you did that, none of the evidence at the trial was possible. It couldn't possibly be true. And it was sort of at that point where we realized we were on to something, and that David and Joyce were right.

RB: I mean, most of us can't imagine what it's like to be accused of a crime that we did not commit, let alone spend 23 years in prison for it. How did David Milgaard handle freedom once it was granted to him?

DA: Well, it was difficult. It was very difficult. And you have to remember that even though he had a brief taste of freedom in 1980 when he had escaped and got shot and got gunned down on a street in Toronto. But in 1992, after his release, I mean, they basically just flushed him right out of the system with no significant, sustained transitional support. And he… he had a lot of difficulty. People try to imagine what it must be like being in jail. But it is really unimaginable the way your life gets micromanaged. And so, when he came out, he struggled. He clearly struggled for quite a long time.

RB: Many have commented on his sense of determination and hope. Did you ever see the other side of that? Did you ever see the despair, the anger?

DA: I wouldn't call it despair and anger. I think that he was frustrated through the period when I was having a lot of intense contact with him. But I'll give you an example. When Kim Campbell turned down our first application, David had been misbehaving in the prison, and they'd put him in administrative dissociation, otherwise known as the hole, otherwise known as solitary confinement. And that in and of itself, and he was near-psychotic, you know, in that situation. And I had to go tell him that Minister Campbell had turned down our application. And you'd think at that moment he would be angry, and he would be despairing. But there we were sitting in the hall at Stony Mountain Penitentiary, and he was giving me the pep talk about how we're having to redouble our efforts and keep going. So for sure, there was anger and despair. But it was fleeting because it was his positive drive that kept him going.

RB: And for the past several decades, he continued his work, pushing for an independent commission to review wrongful conviction applications. How did he hope that that would help others?

DA: He did not want this to happen to anybody else. And he was… even when he was in prison, he was advocating and caring about others as much as he was caring about himself. And so, as a free person, he saw this kind of as the payback time where he got his own freedom, and it was his obligation, his duty to help others. And it was emotional for him that, you know, he use his position and his experience to try to make things better.

RB: What was your last conversation with him like?

DA: Oh, we were joking because we were supposed to be getting honorary doctorates from the University of Manitoba next month. And we were laughing about how two goons like him and me were going to be fettered by the academy. And what a fun and important day it was going to be for the two of us. And I was really, really looking forward to seeing him in June. This was another redemptive moment for David. It was going to be. And it just makes me so sad. He won't be around to walk in the procession and on the stage.

RB: Thank you for taking the time to share those stories and memories with us.

DA: My pleasure.

RB: Take care.

DA: Bye.

RB: Bye.

CH: David Asper was David Milgaard's lawyer and friend. Mr. Milgaard died this past weekend. He was 69.

[Music: Classic rock]

Random Dog In Bed

Guest: Julie Johnson

CH: Earlier this month, Julie and Jimmy Johnson were asleep when a stranger crept into their room, got in their bed, and went to sleep. Luckily, she did not mean the couple any harm. Her demands were few and simple. Mostly, cuddles and -- if it was available -- kibble. We reached Julie Johnson in Benton, Tennessee.

RB: Julie, take us back to the moment in bed when you first noticed something was a little bit different.

JULIE JOHNSON: Well, I woke up around 4 a.m. to go to the restroom, and when I came back to get in bed, I noticed that something was, you know, in our bed. And I just thought it was one of our dogs. It had been storming outside. I thought they were scared from the thunder, and I got in bed and went right back to sleep.

RB: How many dogs do you have?

JJ: We have three dogs.

RB: It's pretty normal for them to sleep in your bed?

JJ: Oh, yeah. They're welcome on any piece of furniture we have except for the kitchen table.

RB: [laughing] Okay. You have some standards.

JJ: Yeah, I would… small standards. But we do have standards. [RB laughs] So anyhow, I get back in the bed, and I fall asleep, and I'm having my little slumber. And as the sun was coming up, it was, you know, starting to get a little bit daylight in our room. And I feel my husband kind of jump, almost not startled, but, you know, move quickly to go from sound asleep to moving quickly. And that's when we realized that there was something in the bed with us.

RB: What did this something look like?

JJ: Big, brown and furry.

RB: And not your dog?

JJ: Absolutely not my dog.

RB: So, how do you react?

JJ: Well, we were silent for just a few seconds. We actually just… I rolled over, and I stared at him, and he stared at me, and we were like, is this going to hurt us? You know? Are we… what… what do we do? Where did this come from? And within a few seconds, we realized that we were fine and there was no harm. But it was a very weird couple minutes waking up.

RB: So then what? I mean, do you have any idea at this point how this random dog got into your house and into your bed?

JJ: No, we don't. You know, my first thought was, man, are my dogs okay? Did this… did this animal hurt my animal to get into the bed because our dogs bark at everything. I mean, if the wind blows the wrong way, they bark. And there was no sound-off that they… that they were having a slumber party. I'm guessing that when my husband had let them out to use the restroom that night before we went to bed and they all came back inside, we're thinking that my husband did not get our… our porch door pushed all the way shut. And so, maybe even our dogs had gone back out into the yard. Or maybe they met the dog somewhere in the yard before it came in. But they did not bark to let me know that… that… that the dog was coming in the house. But we woke up, and our dogs were all perfectly snuggled on their beds and where they should be. And we were snuggled in our bed. We just had a spend the night party and didn't know about it.

RB: [chuckling] And… and did the dog, the random dog, freak out a little bit when it… when you woke up, and it must have realized that you weren't the owners?

JJ: No, not at all. She snuggled right into my husband, got higher up on the pillows, wanted to be covered up. I mean, you would have thought that we were in her bed instead of quite the opposite.

RB: Did it seem hungry? Like, did it seem like a stray dog or that it needed help?

JJ: No, we… we knew within, you know, a minute, 30 seconds, of laying with this dog that this was someone's dog. You know, there was no signs of abuse, no signs of neglect, no signs of being, you know, anywhere but where she thought she was supposed to be.

RB: What was the breed?

JJ: She's a six-year-old bulldog Labrador mix. We've since found out.

RB: Okay. And you've since found out because you decided to do some research to try to find the owner. How did you go about doing that?

JJ: I posted some pictures laying in bed with Nala. That's her name, Nala. And I'm in my nightgown covered up, and it's me and Nala in bed. And I just posted them to my social media, to my Facebook, saying, hey, this is the weirdest post I've ever had to make. I just woke up with this dog in my bed and within a few minutes, I'd gotten a message saying, hey, that's my dog. I'm so sorry. I'm on my way. Where do you live? And she came to pick her up.

RB: And I understand that when she came to pick her up, it was not like a run for joy to see the new owner. In fact, something happened.

JJ: Nala was happy with my husband in bed. Her mom was standing on our porch yelling, Nala, come here, girl, mama's here. Like trying to get Nala to come out on the porch. And it actually required me letting a true stranger, the woman, into my home, to go into the bedroom where my husband was still snuggling with her dog to get her dog out of our bed. It was absolutely hysterical.

RB: It sounds like Nala's owner had a bit of a theory about why she would have run into a stranger's house. There was a bit of a storm going on the night before. Is that right?

JJ: Yes. So, on this… this happened on Sunday morning. On Saturday afternoon, Nala's owners were walking her. And she saw a squirrel or a rabbit. I'm not for sure what she saw, but she slipped her collar and took off running. And they looked for her for a little while and then, like, she'll come back. She knows where to come. She'll come back. She'll come back. Well, she never came back. And that storm rolled in between like 3-4 o'clock. And I think that Nala was just terrified, and was in the woods, and saw a porch light on and came to our house and then was like, holy cow, the front door's open. I'm going in!

RB: [laughing] And straight up into bed.

JJ: And straight up into bed with us.

RB: I understand that you were chatting with Nala's owners just this morning and offering to dogsit for Nala. So this could be, you know, the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Will Nala be allowed back in your bed again?

JJ: Nala can absolutely have a spend the night party at our house, but they have… all of our dogs have to ask permission first.

RB: What a hilarious story. Is there anything that you would not welcome waking up next to?

JJ: A person.

RB: []laughing] So it worked out well then?

JJ: Yes. Give me the dog over the people any day.

RB: Julie, great to talk to you. Thank you.

JJ: Yes, my pleasure. Thank you.

RB: Bye-bye.

CH: That was Julie Johnson. We reached her in Benton, Tennessee.

[Music: Poppy beat]

Part 2: Kharkiv Defence, Thatcher Statue Egged

Kharkiv Defence

Guest: Maria Avdeeva

CH: Nearly three months ago, we spoke with Maria Avdeeva on what she called the "most awful" day of her life. It was February 24th, the day that Russia invaded Ukraine. And the Kharkiv resident told us about being awoken by the sound of shelling. Since then, Ukraine's second-largest city has faced sustained, heavy bombardment. But this weekend, Ukraine said Russia was withdrawing. And a U.S. think tank has said that Ukrainian forces "appear to have won the battle of Kharkiv." Maria Avdeeva is the research director at the European Expert Association. We reached her in Kharkiv.

RB: Maria, what's your reaction to the news that Ukrainian forces have pushed back invading forces from Kharkiv?

MARIA AVDEEVA: It brings much hope and the feeling of… of happiness to me and to people in Kharkiv because the city was under constant Russian shelling for almost three months. From the beginning of the war, there was no day when the city wasn't shelled by the Russian troops. And now, we have this moment when for several days, the city is in silence, and the fear of the bombardment might start any moment is disappearing. Though, we still hear air sirens quite often. But generally, the mood is very high.

RB: Can you still hear shelling?

MA: Yes. In the city, I could hear the outgoings because the Ukrainian artillery is firing at the Russian troops, trying to get them as far from the city as possible. And if I go to the outskirts or out of the city, to the suburbs, to the nearby villages, then the… you could clearly hear the sounds of the fights, the outgoing and incoming shelling because Russian troops are really fighting back and they don't just abandon their positions. It's… it takes a lot of effort and military capabilities for Ukrainian troops to push them further and further. So, the very heavy fights are going around Kharkiv, and you can clearly hear that.

RB: How would you describe what life has been like in Kharkiv since Russia invaded?

MA: Life was difficult because Russian troops were constantly shelling residential areas and targeting civilian infrastructure. And that means that residential areas, huge areas, for example, one which is called Saltivka. Before the war, 500,000 people were living there. Almost all of them were forced to leave the city. And the people, elderly people, have gone through a very difficult period. And still, they are struggling because it's hard for them to get supplies of food. And the volunteers are helping them with that a lot.

RB: Maria, what has been the worst day for you?

MA: Um, the worst day for me. I didn't… well, the most difficult moments for me is when I go and speak to the people who are suffering because of these bombardments. People in the hospital, I was talking to a woman. She was outside on the streets, queuing for a… to get water. And then, Russian shelling started. One of the… of the shrapnels is still in her leg because doctors were not able to get it out because it's too deep inside. And she was… when she was telling all this story, how she was outside and two people that were staying in… in line with her, they were killed. And she saw them… it happened in her eyes. Speaking to such people who have gone through this traumatic experience, and who are terrified. And she is still terrified. She cannot go back to her home because she says, every moment I think about that, I again live through this… through this experience. This is very difficult, and it's hard to find words of how to speak and what to say to these people. And I think this… for me, this is the most difficult how to now… to find words of support to those who were mostly suffer… who suffered mostly during this war.

RB: Do you know people who have died?

MA: Not personally. Not… none of my colleagues or friends have died. But of course, I have been to the… to the funeral of the people who were killed. And I have seen the… I have been with one of the media groups in the morgue, seeing all these civilians. Because the problem during the winter time was that the… the relatives of the people were gone. And the… there was no one who could pick up the bodies from the morgue. And they were just lying there waiting for community services to take care of the bodies and bury them. So, this is something that was, you know, that stands behind… like, in front of my eyes.

RB: Why did you decide to stay in Kharkiv?

MA: I saw my mission in combating Russian disinformation by providing the truth about the situation in the city. And also, given… raising awareness among the international community and people throughout the world about the war crimes committed by Russian troops and Kharkiv.

RB: Did you ever think about leaving?

MA: I was thinking that I might leave if there will be a moment when Russian troops will come into the city, get control over the city physically. Because there were several times that they were attempting to do so. It didn't work out for them. And… but I was thinking for myself that if this moment will sometime happen, then I would have to leave because then it will be a real threat for my life.

RB: You said that there's a feeling of relief right now with the news that the Russians are starting to pull back. Do you think that your city is going to be able to recover, to… to heal from… from all of this?

MA: I do hope so. But there will be a lot of time and effort, and money needed to rebuild all of this. And then still, the city is too close to the border with Russia. And until this war is over, the city will be under constant threat of the new attacks or new offensive operations by Russia.

RB: Maria, it was good of you to talk to us today. Thank you.

MA: Thank you very much. It was my pleasure.

CH: Maria Avdeeva is a resident of Kharkiv and the research director of the think tank European Expert Association. And you can find more on that story on the As It Happens website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Glassy guitar riff]

Chantel Moore Inquest

CH: Chantel Moore's family believes she should be alive today. So do many other people in New Brunswick, where the young Indigenous woman was shot by a police officer almost two years ago. An inquest investigating her death -- and how to prevent similar deaths -- opened today. It will not determine blame. It will examine the details of what happened the night Ms. Moore was killed in July 2020. We know that an officer was sent to check on her wellbeing. And that she came out of her apartment with a knife. The officer told her to drop the knife, then fired on her when she continued toward him. No charges were laid against the officer. A few days after Chantel Moore's death, Carol spoke with Moses Martin, her great-uncle.

[sc]

MM: And it's hard for us to really understand what really happened and what the nature of the call was. And then also, when you get no information, well, then we're left to make assumptions on what happened. We're told that she was shot multiple times. So, you know, right away, these questions of what was the intent to kill? Why didn't he try to disarm her? Why didn't he run? Did he not have a Taser? All those kinds of questions are cropping up.

CO: Okay, let's just go back to what few details we have at this point. So police went to her home to check on her well-being. She's shot multiple times and killed. Do you know anything else about what happened? They say she had a knife when they arrived. What do you know about that?

MM: Yes, that’s the same message that we got. And that's the piece that I'm having trouble trying to understand is because Chantel, as we knew her, was a very beautiful young lady, inside and out. So it's hard to understand how she's being described by police, coming at a trained police officer with a knife. It’s difficult. Even if she had a knife. She's a tiny little lady. And a trained police officer, yeah, it just doesn't make any sense. To me, it’s a senseless killing.

CO: Chantel had her own daughter, didn't she? A little five-year-old, and she'd gone to New Brunswick to be with her mom and her daughter. What stories would you tell her daughter about her mother? What do you want her daughter to know about her mom?

MM: Her mother was beautiful, kind,a very well-spoken person. And then, yes, she wanted to be near her daughter and know all those things that come with being a parent.

[/sc]

CH: From Our Archives, that was Moses Martin speaking with Carol in June of 2020, a few days after the death of his grand-niece, Chantel Moore. An inquest into her death opened today in New Brunswick.

[Music: Ambient]

Thatcher Statue Egged

Guest: Lee Steptoe

CH: Margaret Thatcher still has the power to provoke. The late U.K. Prime Minister has been dead for nine years, and she's been out of power for 32. But on Sunday, when a statue of the so-called Iron Lady went up in her hometown of Grantham, it was promptly egged. And the egging wasn't the work of random vandals. A photo shows a man identified as a local arts administrator holding an egg carton in one hand while he takes careful aim with the other. Lee Steptoe says no one should be surprised. He's the Labour & Co-operative city councillor for Grantham Earlesfield. We reached him in Grantham.

RB: Councillor Steptoe, for those of our listeners who have not yet seen this statue, can you describe it for us?

LEE STEPTOE: Yeah, it's… it's approximately nine feet tall. It's bronze. It is an absolutely huge statue. Um, you know, in my personal view, and it is a personal view, is that statues are pretty much a Victorian concept. But it certainly… it outdoes anything that the Victorians produced in terms of its size and scale. It really… it really does dominate. It really does… really does dominate the town square.

RB: What did you think when you heard that it had been egged not long after it was put up?

LS: I thought that that was absolutely inevitable, that the statue would be attacked. Unfortunately, opposition councillors, myself included, have been trying to tell the Conservative administration for the past three years that the statue would absolutely be a target. And unfortunately, within two hours of it going up, we were proved correct.

HM: Are you in favour of Margaret Thatcher being commemorated in this way?

LS: No, I'm not. Mrs. Thatcher was certainly the most divisive prime minister of my lifetime. I'm 52 years old. And when you consider the divisiveness of the current incumbent in Number 10 Downing Street, that's… that's quite some statement, but I stick by it. She absolutely… I lived through the 1980s. I lived through her rule. And she absolutely divided society. And her policies, yes, led to an awful lot of people becoming better off. But it also led to a huge amount of unemployment. Four million, four million people in Britain unemployed, massive unrest, riots, and of course, it was eventually riots in 1990 that led to her own party, her own party actually dumping her from power and replacing her with… with John Major.

RB: So you say you lived through that.

LS: I did.

RB: I mean, how did… how did her rule impact your own life then?

LS: Her own rule impacted my own life. I mean, I was literally a teenager and then a young man who went to university at the age of 18, just down the road in Nottingham. But it impacted my life because I saw family and friends being made redundant during the 1980s. My own father lost his job twice, the first time after the British Telecommunications, which was a state industry, was… was privatized. Mrs. Thatcher's government took a huge amount of the British industry out of state control and privatized it, which led to mass redundancies. I mean, just to put this into some sort of perspective. Today there are just over one million people unemployed in Great Britain. At the height of Thatcher's rule in the eighties, there were four million people unemployed.

RB: She must have some supporters, though. Some people who think --

LS: Of course.

RB: That she needs to be commemorated in this way, including in her hometown of Grantham.

LS: Of course she does. Listen, I'm… I'm a… I'm a Labor politician. I'm partizan. I'm anti-Thatcher. I'm not trying to hide that. Of course, she has supporters. She won three consecutive general elections. But she also has people that loathe her or loathed. Because, of course, you're just stating a fact. She died nine years ago. You know, she's very much a figure of the past now. Now… now, I've never personally had a problem with commemorating the fact that she became Britain's first female prime minister and so on in a deeply sexist 1970s and 1980s, which I always remember. That's quite an achievement to become the first female prime minister in what was an absolutely male-dominated world. But commemorate it in the museum. The museum is literally a stone's throw from where the statue has been located. You know, have something in the museum with a… with a fair balance sheet. In other words, commemorate her achievements but also tell the other side. Actually, have some balance about it, rather than… rather than a love fest. Because unfortunately, that's what it is. It's a love fest for a deeply divisive former prime minster.

RB: That's interesting. So you think it would make a difference where the statue was located? I was going to say, wouldn't it just be the museum staff that would have to clean up the eggs?

LS: The statue is far too big to actually locate in the museum. It's far too tall. You know, Westminster, obviously, just outside the Houses of Parliament, did not want this statue. They refused to have the statue several years ago for all kinds of reasons. One of them was the fact that they publicly cited that they knew it would be publicly attacked and vandalized.

RB: You have another famous Granthamite that has… has a statue in the town as well. Who's that?

LS: That is Sir Isaac Newton, who is literally about 20, 25 yards away from the Thatcher statue, yeah.

RB: Did anybody egg him?

LS: No, because he's ancient history. I mean, if we want to go into that, Sir Isaac Newton made a lot of money through the slave trade. But, you know, not… not a lot of people know that. And quite frankly, hardly anybody cares. But, you know, Sir Isaac Newton. Yes, a fantastic physicist, of course, but a pretty divisive character in his own right.

RB: Councillor, thank you for your time. Good to talk to you.

LS: Thank you so much. You take care. Cheers. Bye-bye.

RB: Bye-bye.

CH: Lee Steptoe is the Labour & Co-operative city councillor for Grantham Earlesfield. We reached him in Grantham, England.

[Music: Music light rock]

Balenciaga Worn-Out Shoes

CH: If a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? And if the tree falls on a pair of sneakers, and wrecks them, and someone sells the wrecked sneakers for a ridiculous sum, and no media outlets cover it, does that make a sound? Last week, the luxury fashion brand Balenciaga unveiled its new "Paris Trainers". They come in red, white, or black. And they come "destroyed" -- for 800 bucks -- or "fully destroyed" -- for 2,300 bucks Canadian. There are only 100 pairs of the "fully destroyed" shoes -- the rubber parts of which are comically scuffed, and the fabric body of which is shredded. This damage was carefully rendered by élite shoe-destruction artisans. Even if you could achieve the same effect by tossing your own cheap high-tops to a couple of Jack Russells. If you love them, well, that's what Balenciaga wanted. And if you are very angry about them, that's also what Balenciaga wanted. If you're talking about them at all -- like I am, right now on the radio… well, you get the idea. All these opinions of these silly shoes are a huge win for the designer. Even if, at first, it seemed like he'd really put his foot in his mouth… or a Jack Russell’s.

[Music: Electronic]

Part 3: Nunavut Mine Review, Haiti Violence

Nunavut Mine Review

Guest: Enookie Inuarak

CH: There were celebrations in Pond Inlet, Nunavut, this weekend. Those opposed to the expansion of a nearby iron ore mine were marking a victory. The Nunavut Impact Review Board rejected the company's bid to double the amount of ore it shipped out of the mine at the northern tip of Baffin Island. The board ruled against the expansion by Baffinland because of the potential impact on wildlife and on the Inuit people who hunt them. Now, the federal Minister of Northern Affairs will have to decide whether to side with the review board -- or Baffinland. One of the animals of great concern is the narwhal. Enookie Inuarak is one of those who depend on the narwhal hunt. He's the head of the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization. We reached him in Pond Inlet.

RB: Enookie, how important are narwhal in your life?

ENOOKIE INUARAK: Very, very important, not just for me, but every person, every local person that depend on it for diet, for countless generations.

RB: What's at stake for you and for other hunters?

EI: Well, it touches on our lives with more traffic, more ships, we notice the narwhals move away from the area, and they keep declining each year. And we just knew if they doubled the production, there would be more impacts.

RB: And I understand you have seen that firsthand. Can you tell us what happened when you went out on the hunt for narwhal last summer?

EI: Sure. Not just me, but everybody in Pond Inlet saw that. We know the routes narwhals go through, and we wait for them. And last summer, we didn't really see any. It was sad. It was… it was hard. And coming back home with empty hands, it's… it was difficult.

RB: So, you didn't see a single one?

EI: Well, all summer long, we saw small groups here and there, but not how we're used to seeing them by thousands of them.

RB: Hmm. So, what did that mean for your food supply?

EI: The health. It's healthy food for us. And during the dark season, we don't see the sun for about two months. And the narwhals are rich in minerals and vitamins. And they really help us get through the dark season. And it impacted us, like, health and mentally during the winter.

RB: What did you eat instead?

EI: Well, we still harvest seals and expensive store-bought food that we get.

RB: Do you see a direct correlation? Have you seen a direct change since the mine began operating?

EI: Yes, the numbers keep declining. And some areas are calving grounds for narwhals, and we don't see that as much now.

RB: The company, Baffinland, says there are other reasons for declining numbers, such as presence of killer whales, the construction of a small craft harbour. What would you say to that?

EI: Well, the killer whales have always been around. They do come in the summer seasons and not just the Pond Inlet area, all around the Arctic Ocean. They're like wolves, where wolves follow the herds of caribou, where there's plenty. The wolves follow the caribou. Same with killer whales. They're not new here. They've been here since the beginning of time. And so, it can't be killer whales. And for small craft harbour, while they were still constructing the small craft harbour, once the ships slowed down, where we saw several ships per day, once they slowed down to one ship per week, that's when we started seeing narwhals again.

RB: Are you completely opposed to the mine, or do you see a way that it could act responsibly?

EI: No, not completely opposite. But it's to the point where we had to stand up for this proposal and there was major impacts. But we do want to see a more responsible way and not rushing.

RB: It's now up to the Federal Minister of Northern Affairs, Dan Vandal, to make the final decision. It's… you know, he's looking at the review board's recommendations against the mine expansion. How much faith do you have that he'll listen to the review board?

EI: Um, I hope he will respect the impact review board and impacted communities' concerns.

RB: Enookie, the narwhal season, I understand, starts again in two months, and I know that you're hoping to be able to show your 11-year-old son the hunt. What do you think would be lost if you were not able to pass on that tradition to him?

EI: Well, Inuit exist because of wildlife up here in the Arctic. And we don't have trees, we don't have vegetables. And to lose part of that culture, it's… that is too much. It's countless generations that have learned to survive up here would be lost.

RB: Enookie, thank you for taking the time to talk to us today.

EI: Sure. Thank you.

RB: Take care. Bye-bye.

CH: Enookie Inuarak is with the Mittimatalik Hunters and Trappers Organization. He was in Pond Inlet, Nunavut.

[Music: Bright piano]

SK Missing Boy

CH: Today marks Day 28 of the search for Frank Young, a five-year-old boy last seen outside his home at Red Earth Cree First Nation in northern Saskatchewan on April 19th. This morning in Prince Albert, officials and family members spoke to reporters at a press conference organized by The Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations. Teresa Whitecap is Frank's grandmother.

[sc]

TERESA WHITECAP: The family is overwhelmed with worry and grief, and they are overwhelmed by the public attention. However, they are extremely grateful for all the support and the belief. My family are very strong. And the reason we are strong is because we come together as one. Frank used to love playing outside with neighbourhood children. Frank was creative. He was fun-loving. And Frank took pride of making things for… for… for his caregiver, Barb. He was so proud of the things that he made for her. And they are a keepsake for… for Barb. She has them in her photos. They took pictures of them. I used to love his chipmunk voice. He's got a little chipmunk voice. [laughing all around] But that’s… that's what we were known for. Whenever we have a big gathering, everybody talks at once, and we sound like chipmunks. [more laughing] So we're the chipmunk family. And I come from a very large family. And, you know, in closing, I would just want to say, you know, thank you. Thank you to all the volunteers that have come up to Red Earth to help look for Frank. The technical people that brought their stuff in to help with the search. And I know through Facebook, we see a lot of support, people sending messages to us. People lighting candles almost every night for Frank.

[/sc]

CH: That was Teresa Whitecap -- grandmother of five-year-old Frank Young, who went missing from the Red Earth Cree First Nation in Saskatchewan last month.

[Music: Uke!!!]

Ottawa Owl

CH: It's a hoo's hoo of the Ottawa River area. A rare sighting of a nesting Great Horned owl has wildlife photographers aflutter. So much so, that some of them have built a nest for themselves at the tree the mother owl and her owlets nest in -- even going so far to reveal the owls' location on social media. And that has ruffled the feathers of wildlife conservation photographer Melissa Groo -- who has a lot to say about how to photograph the owls without being a jerk about it.

[sc]

MELISSA GROO: All it takes is one person who might be sort of careless or inconsiderate to really disrupt the owl and jeopardize its safety and survival. And, you know, one of the things that I would… would try to remind people is… is these are just about photos to us, but to a wild animal, every single moment is about survival. And these outlets are in their branching phase. That is, they've… they've left the nest, and they're now unable to fly away. But they are sort of learning to navigate branches and test their wings. And their parents are both bringing them food. But if there are a lot of people assembled around the nest, it's very possible that might be inhibiting to the parents in terms of returning with prey. You know, they're… they're afraid of people. We are seen by wild animals as predators, understandably. And so, is it interfering with them being able to bring back that prey? They also are afraid of disclosing the location of… of the young by flying back when there's a lot of people standing there. So these are all things we sort of have to think about. You know, I think certainly standing a certain distance away from the owlets is… would be a great idea, like at least 25 or 30 feet. You know, this is not really a great opportunity for an iPhone shot. Long lenses are best. Standing at some distance and looking through binoculars is… is great. But we also have to sort of think about limiting our time because there's a lot of sort of cumulative pressure that builds up when a lot of us are standing around for a long amount of time.

[/sc]

CH: That's wildlife conservation photographer Melissa Groo speaking with Robyn last week on Ottawa Morning.

[Music: Folk]

Haiti Violence

Guest: Jean-Gilbert Ndong

CH: For some Haitians living around Port-au-Prince, just leaving the house can be deadly. Fighting between rival gangs has plagued the city since last summer's assassination of the country's president. And earlier this month, the UN warned that clashes had displaced a lot of people from their homes in the capital city -- and killed dozens. Kidnappings for ransom have also surged in the country recently. And last week, Medecins San Frontieres said that recent violence in Port-au-Prince had led to an influx of wounded people arriving at its medical facilities. Jean-Gilbert Ndong is MSF's medical coordinator in Port-au-Prince. That's where we reached

RB: Jean-Gilbert, tell us, what is it like to live in the capital these days?

JEAN-GILBERT NDONG: I mean, it's not that easy. I mean, the situation is tense. There are a lot of kidnappings going on. For us working in a medical hospital, we are receiving a lot… I mean, pretty much more patients, actually. And we also have difficulties with our human resources. I mean, our staff who cannot, like, easily come to the hospital because of the insecurity of roughly what we are living actually in Port-au-Prince.

RB: So, some of your own staff can't even get into the hospitals to work. Is this because of the barricades that have been put up around town with the warring gangs?

JGN: I mean, it's not about barricades. It's about the fact that, I mean, some places are really insecure, so they cannot move, like, freely. They need to wait when there is no ongoing, I mean, shootings so that they can come to the hospital. And most of the time, unfortunately, in some areas in Port-Au-Prince, it's not possible to move freely.

RB: Have any of your staff been caught up in the violence?

JGN: I mean, not directly. But since they are living in the communities, some have been forced to move from their houses because of active shootings going on in their places. So, some are obliged to move, or sometimes they cannot just go out of their houses. They have to remain indoors to make sure that they are not going to be, like, some victims of what is going on.

RB: Tell us about some of the injuries that you're seeing at the hospitals.

JGN: Actually, we are seeing injuries in relation with, like, urban violence. So, we receive a lot of trauma. And our team are, like, actually busy because we also have to adapt to the type of injuries that we are seeing now. So yeah, we are seeing a lot of injuries in relationship with urban violence.

RB: A lot of gunshot wounds?

JGN: Oh, I mean, we are not going into details. But we do have also, like, a lot of trauma due to, like, car accidents because the roads are not that good. And also other types of wounds in relationship with what… knife and things like that. I mean, these are, like, the result of violence. So I cannot give you, I mean, the like details, but it is really, really in relationship with urban violence.

RB: I know that we're speaking to you in the… the capacity of your work with MSF, but what is your understanding of what this violence is all about?

JGN: Oh, I mean, as I told you before, I mean, we are focusing on the patients in the hospitals. And we are also making sure that we are respecting our principles. And I would not say that we are not interested in what is going on in town. But me, as a medical coordinator, I'm focusing on the medical offer. And what I can tell you is that the medical offer has been pretty much more restricted because a lot of medical or hospitals are closing because of security. And we are also seeing a lot of Haitian colleagues who are going abroad because of violence. So, actually, it is very difficult to have a like a proper medical care because of, like, a result of all this violence going on in the field.

RB: The violence was said to be very, very bad in April. Would you say things are getting better at all, or are they getting worse?

JGN: I would say that things are getting worse, even though actually in the hospital we have, like, less patients compared to three weeks ago, but we are still receiving patients on a daily basis. Even though we hope that the situation is going to improve. But to… to be ready. So we have to prepare for more patients. But we are really thinking and… that the situation is going to be better.

RB: Jean-Gilbert, I appreciate your time in such a busy environment. Thank you so much.

JGN: You are welcome.

CH: That was MSF medical coordinator Jean-Gilbert Ndong in Port-au-Prince.

[Music: Electronic]

Ukraine Eurovision Win

[sc]

[Music: “Stefania” by Kalush Orchestra]

[Sound: Clapping and cheering]

MAN: I ask all of you. Please, help Ukraine, Mariupol.

[/sc]

CH: Ukraine's Kalush Orchestra, performing their Eurovision contender "Stefania" one last time at this weekend's Grand Final of the song competition. A triumphant sound, followed closely by another.

[sc]

[Sound: A man shouts loudly and excitedly in Ukrainian]

[/sc]

CH: That's Ukrainian broadcaster, Timur Miroshnychenko, reacting to his country's Eurovision win on Saturday evening -- from inside an underground bunker at an undisclosed location. It's where he's been working since Russia bombed Kyiv's main television tower more than two months ago. And in an interview ahead of Saturday's broadcast, Mr. Miroshnychenko said that attack -- and the many others since -- made celebrating the Kalush Orchestra feel all the more important.

[sc]

TIMUR MIROSHNYCHENKO: That TV tower, that TV station in the centre of Kyiv, it's my working place. After this, that day, five people were killed there. And after that, all Ukrainian TV channels and TV crews had to move somewhere underground in different parts of Ukraine to provide the population, people of Ukraine, with the coverage of news now without any interruption. That's why we are in the bunker. That's why nothing could interrupt our broadcasts. This is the safest place, one of the safest places, in Ukraine, I think.

TOM NEWTON DUNN: Now, Eurovision night means big parties. For some, I'm sure it's the same in Ukraine as it is here. But do you think people in Ukraine will struggle to get into the spirit of everything, given what, of course, has been happening where you are? Or is it all the more reason to cheer on the national act?

TM: You know, on February 24th, of course, no one of us we're thinking about Eurovision or something like that. But right now, thanks to armed forces of Ukraine and of course, thanks to the support of our partners and friends, especially the United Kingdom, we can join this contest and we can celebrate this contest and even thinking about where to host next year's Eurovision? So, it's like a ray of hope for… for Ukrainians right now. Like, something they can remember… remember from previous life, previous peaceful life. Because we in Ukraine used to sing every time, everywhere. Even fighting right now on the frontline, our soldiers are singing some songs. And, of course, Kalush has to be on Eurovision to represent our country to… to just to sing about it, to… to raise the morale of all Ukrainians. They have a very important mission.

[/sc]

CH: Timur Miroshnychenko, speaking with TalkTV's Tom Newton Dunn about hosting this year's Ukrainian Eurovision broadcasts from inside a bunker. Saturday's win marks Ukraine's third in the international song competition -- and, under the rules, means the war torn country should host next year's Eurovision Song Contest.

[Music: Ambient]

Shoe Cup

CH: Finally -- finally -- the cup is back home in Ontario. Oh, not that cup. I’m sorry. It’s too soon for that kind of confusion. I'm referring to the Shoe Service Institute of America's Grand Silver Cup. It's one of the top honours in the rarified world of shoe repair. And the most recent winner is Thunder Bay's Martin Sugg. He now has that silver cup on display in his shop, Timeless Shoe Repair. And our colleagues at CBC Thunder Bay went down to talk to him.

[sc]

MARTIN SUGG: So, the Silver Cup is the Super Bowl of shoe repair. It's a North American award that's… that they've been… a competition they've been holding since 1938. We do it every two years. The goal is to restore to original. So, I've always found it to be the most challenging. So, we repair one shoe from each pair and leave its matching shoe in its worn-out condition so that the judges can see what it looked like originally, and how closely we made that shoe to appear as though it just came out of the box when it was brand new. We have to provide our own shoes. And actually, that's half the battle because it can be difficult to find good, quality, well-made shoes that meet the criteria that are worn out and that also have never been repaired before. If the judges notice that there's been an alteration to the shoe, then they can't see what it looked like originally, so you'd be disqualified. So yeah, you find your own shoes and then you do your repairs and you mail them in. So… so [paper rustles] this brown derby shoe, it's a Florsheim. I did a half soul and heel replacement on this one. So this is the worn out shoe. You can see it was all scuffed up and the stitches are broken and the heels worn. It needs repair. This is… this is my restoration job here. I spend the better part of the year looking for shoes to… that are good candidates for entry into competitions. So, I have a whole pile of them. And these were just a couple of pairs that I chose. But they go… they go through them with a fine tooth comb.

[/sc]

CH: That was Martin Sugg, speaking to Amy Hadley in Thunder Bay.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

May 16, 2022

More Stories Like This