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The AIH Transcript For March 2, 2022

[hosts]Helen Mann, Chris Howden[/hosts]

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden, this is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

HM: How things stand when his city has fallen. The Russian military takes control of the city of Kherson in southern Ukraine -- and one resident describes watching through his window as the tanks roll by.

CH: They don't have much, but they're giving their all. Moldova is the poorest country in Europe -- but a UN official tells us Moldovans have opened their borders, their wallets and their homes to tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees.

HM: Don't ask, don't show and tell. Florida Republicans want to restrict discussions about sexual orientation and gender identity in classrooms, with a piece of legislation that our guest calls "a piece of hatred".

CH: Hot and bothered. After a century, a stone hut in a Rocky Mountain pass has fallen victim to erosion -- and a grandson of a man who helped build it says it's bringing him down that they're taking it down.

HM: If you think about Stonehenge all the time, you must have rocks in your head. But one researcher left no stone unturned in proposing the site is an even more precise calendar than we previously thought.

CH: And… post-baby steps. A used diaper seems more like a biohazard than environmentally friendly -- but a new pilot project in Wales has recycled tens of thousands of them to pave a road.

CH: As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that appreciates a come from behind victory.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Ukraine: Kherson Resident, Florida "Don't Say Gay" Bill, Wales Diaper Road

Ukraine: Kherson Resident

Guest: Hussain

CH: It is the first Ukrainian city to fall under complete control of the Russian military. Today, Russian forces encircled and occupied Kherson -- a key hub in the south of Ukraine. After days of fighting, the city's mayor told the New York Times that the Russians now have plans to set up a military administration. Meanwhile, Ukrainian forces retreated to another nearby city. Hussain is in Kherson. We've agreed not to use his full name because he's concerned for his safety.

HM: Hussain, what have you seen outside your window in Kherson today?

HUSSAIN: I have seen no police, no Ukrainian authorities today, all day in the city, not in my street, and I live on the main street. And I woke up this morning with a loud mechanical sound, and I just rushed to the window to see what's happening. And just pull up my curtain a bit, and I saw, like, tanks and infantry units standing outside. And that was a scary thing. And then they were firing, you know, like these warning shots for the civilians like just in the air so that people run away. And it was complete chaos that the warning shots and then the civilians, they were running here and there. It was a scary moment, yeah.

HM: Tell me what it is like for you to see Russian tanks rolling down the street on which you live?

H: Very unexpected. It's just like… war in general. Like, we even bluffed. And they told on the TV that there will be no war. It's just that Russia is trying to pressurize Ukraine to do things, and there will be no war. Don't panic; just do the normal stuff. And I was planning a business trip like the day after that. Came back with plans, like, for the next day. And then, you wake up suddenly at 5:00 with the news that there are missiles hitting all over the country. [phone buzzes] You will hear the distant sounds, nothing in front of you. And then today, it was the next surprise. Like, just wake up, and you see tanks outside. And it's horrific, for sure.

HM: I hear your phone buzzing. I can only imagine that everyone you know is trying to contact each other, see if everyone is safe, talk about this. What kinds of conversations are you having?

H: It's especially like, the thing is, my mother is not with me. And every time I talk to her, she is crying over the phone, and she just wants me to leave. She does not understand the gravity of the matter. Like, I mean, it's not that simple to leave. [phone buzzes] Everyone is just calling me every 15 minutes. And even if I'm just missing for 15-20 minutes, I will start getting calls. You're so worried that things might go wrong.

HM: You say it's difficult to get out. I'm reading that it's… it's almost impossible now for civilians to get out of Kherson. Tell me about your concerns about the hours and days ahead?

H: Okay. Being in the city, we have this shortage of supplies, for sure, 100 per cent. I mean, you do not have enough in your kitchen. This is the first thing. Then, you are cashless; you are penniless, you are empty. Your bank is not giving you any money. So you cannot really buy stuff here, even if it is available. This is the second thing. The situation is like you need cash to buy the little stuff that is available, and you don't have that cash. And I know that if there is no help from outside, it won't work for too long like that. I mean, probably, the hunger will kill people. I'm not sure if the war will, but hunger will.

HM: Have you had to ration food and the things you have?

H: What I have in my kitchen will help me survive the next 24 to 36 hours maximum. I have no idea what I'm going to do after that.

HM: Some people have been calling for humanitarian corridors to allow people to get out or aid to get in. Do you have any hope something like that would… would help you?

H: I think with everything that will benefit the civilians, Russians would negotiate on that. [chuckle] I think they deliberately want this to happen. They use this as a shield to negotiate with the… with other governments.

HM: You are there, I understand, with your three-year-old daughter. How are you keeping her calm? How is she doing?

H: We are trying to keep her busy with the cartoons. We're using these headphones, the earphones, to make sure she hears less of the sound. So, you know, the hours when things got ugly, like especially the late evenings, and she's about to sleep, so we'll make sure she has the headphones around her ears, and she is busy with her iPad watching cartoons. I mean, she's three years old, so it's impossible to explain things to her. And we want her to have a normal childhood. She's already locked inside an apartment for a week. And then, on top of that, if she's hearing all these sounds, I know maybe she will be somewhere safe in a few days, maybe this war will finish, but she will have these memories that will stay for a long time with her.

HM: Yeah, I can only imagine how much more difficult that is for you as an adult, kind of quelling your own worries in front of her, so she doesn't feel your own fears.

H: Exactly. I mean, this is the only child I have. Like, everything that we're doing with this child is… we are learning to be parents, actually. And with that sort of certain experience, we obviously were not ready for that. I mean, I would have been more okay to travel out of the country if my daughter was not with me. But you think twice, you think twice, and you have to be enrolled in a state of war with a three-year-old kid. This is… [phone buzzes] obviously, you… you'll think twice about that for sure.

HM: You're obviously concerned, as you've said to us, about food and basic supplies. What other things are on your mind? What are your worries about your family right now?

H: The first time I saw this footage of… of a building getting shelled, like apartments and a school, that was a line where I realized that I am not safe. I thought that could be my building. That could be my family inside. Beside that, I mean, all three of us were healthy right now. Just imagine someone getting sick, like it's impossible to get to the hospital. There are no drugstores that are open here. On top of that, like the frustration and the stress that we are going through, I haven't slept in peace for a week. Like, I take these short sleeps and like usually end up with nightmares of some sounds from the outside. And for how long can we do this? This is the top question. Like, being in an apartment, how long can I lock that? We have seen wars that have ended in a week, and then we have seen wars in Afghanistan, for example, that went for two decades. So you never know how long this thing will continue.

HM: What do you think Russian occupation will bring to Kherson?

H: The general public will never trust the Russian military. It won't be normal again. Kherson won't be the same city again if it is under Russian control, for sure. More than that, the destruction and the things that they have done there. I mean, every time someone will hear a loud sound, they will think Russians are here. They have traumatized people. And I don't think anything good is happening in this city with the Russians sitting here. I lost hope, actually. When I saw those tanks today in front of my apartment, like 10 metres away, I realized that this is… this is over, actually.

HM: Hussain, I am so sorry that you and your family and your community are going through all of this. I hope you stay safe, and I really very much appreciate you talking with us.

H: Thank you for having me here.

CH: We reached Hussain in Kherson, Ukraine. We've agreed not to use his last name because he's concerned for his safety.

[Music: Pensive piano]

Florida "Don't Say Gay" Bill

Guest: Brandon Hensler

CH: Officially, it's called the "Parental Rights in Education" bill. But it has become known as the "Don't Say Gay" bill. And Brandon Hensler and his husband say that, if it becomes law in Florida, it will harm their family and community. Republican lawmakers in Florida want to restrict "classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity" in primary grades. And this week, their proposed law got one step closer to becoming law. We reached Brandon Hensler in Land O' Lakes, Florida.

HM: Brandon, a Republican senator behind this bill, says that he loves everybody, and that the outrage about this has been fabricated by the media. How do you respond to that?

BRANDON HENSLER: I find it very hard to believe as the parent of a daughter who will be punished by this bill, which this bill is what it is. It is a piece of hatred that is coming from legislators who do not want for our families to be talked about in public schools. It will specifically open up the ability for people to target our families and make my daughter, who is four and a half years old, feel like another. There was even a letter to the editor in response to our op-ed in today's paper, where someone said It's ridiculous that we have this opinion because no child of that age would care if someone had two daddies. And that's absolutely correct. The children don't care about two daddy families. It's the legislators who are trying to legislate their opinions and take this state back 20 years to where we were before we made significant progress on LGBT rights.

HM: Do you have any clarity on what the bill means in practical terms, when it… when it says that there will be a restriction of classroom discussion about sexual orientation and gender identity? Are there any specifics about what they mean by that?

BH: The bill is intentionally vague, which is why it's so dangerous because it allows legislators and some school district officials to make it up what they want it to mean. It means that if there's a book in the public school library or a book that's in the curriculum that has a chapter that talks about the history of LGBT rights in this country, that could be pulled off the shelf -- and basically, erasing our story from history.

HM: Representative Joe Harding has said that the bill won't bar students from talking about their LGBTQ families. And that it won't bar discussions about LGBTQ history. Does that change your view in any way? Does that make anything more clear?

BH: I don't believe that. I think that's exactly what this bill will do. And we can… him and I can disagree on that, and I would be happy to talk to him about it. But this bill completely opens that up. There's a history in this state of vague legislation that opens up the doorway to discrimination. And it's not just this bill, and it's not just the state. There is a bill that would prevent discussion of critical race theory. There is a bill attacking abortion rights. There are a number of bills that are before this legislature. And on the LGBT issue and specific, the "Don't Say Gay" bill, there's 15 other states in this nation that have almost exactly the same language. This is exactly what it is. It's a systematic targeting of people of colour, people who are LGBTQ and their families.

HM: You mentioned your four-year-old daughter, Marin, who is going to enter the public school system, I guess, later this year. She's young, I know, but have you had conversations with her about what this might mean? What's going on in the state right now?

BH: We have not talked with her specifically about this because it is, as of now, not what I feel is age-appropriate. We want to have conversations with our daughter in a way that she can understand them, and she's a little too young to understand that there's people in this world who hate her family. But that being said, we do have conversations with her about how our family looks a little different. And she asks questions, and we answer questions that she has honestly, openly and with age-appropriate language, which every child should have the opportunity to have that conversation and not have that shut down from the legislature.

HM: What are your fears and concerns about her entering the classroom if this bill does go ahead?

BH: It's hard to imagine being five years old again. That was so long ago for many of us. But imagine being in a classroom where your family doesn't exist. Your elected representatives have erased you from history. That has got to be crushing. That will make my little daughter feel bad about herself, her life, her parents. It'll turn children into introverts. It will make them have, you know, scarring mental health issues that we can't even predict right now.

HM: You mentioned bills like this one and others on other matters that people, like you say, are rolling back people's rights. Are you exhausted?

BH: [defeated chuckle] That is a really good question. I've lived in Florida almost my entire life. I worked excruciatingly hard to have the bill that stemmed out of the Anita Bryant era back in the 1970s and 80s that prohibited LGBT people from adopting children. And I was lucky to be part of that campaign. And we won that campaign in 2011. So now we have a daughter that we were able to adopt. In 2015, the federal government rolled back all of the laws prohibiting LGBT people from getting married. Unfortunately for our family, that was a year or two late because we had to fly to Rhode Island to get married. Nobody should have to fly across the country to celebrate their love. And, you know, we're fortunate. We live in a neighbourhood full of love. We have amazing neighbours of all different colours and backgrounds, and we all get along and love each other. We have an amazing, supportive family network. But when our government continues to systematically target these people of colour and LGBT people, of myself being included, and my husband and my daughter, it is exhausting. And I think that there will be people who decide to leave the state of Florida because they're too tired to continue fighting this. Now, I can't speak for everybody, but we're not planning to let the bullies in our legislature, and it's not all of them. There are great legislators doing great work in our state, but there are bullies who are using hatred to dictate how they want us to live our lives. And we are going to stand up to them.

HM: I understand you used to work for the Florida ACLU. Does that history? Does that experience kind of drive you to be more defiant on this?

BH: It absolutely is a big part of my history. You know, I left the nonprofit world, I left the ACLU, to pursue a career in higher education, which I absolutely am passionate about. I think education, not ignorance, is the way forward in our country and our state to make things better for everyone. And I was, I was tired after my time working at the ACLU because it is exhausting to have to deal with this type of bigotry and hatred. But you know what? There's a path forward. There's always a path forward. And after being out of that work for 11-plus years, this is now affecting my family again, and I cannot sit down and just not say anything.

HM: Brandon Hensler, thank you. It's good to talk with you.

BH: Thank you so much, Helen.

HM: All right.

BH: Have a great day.

HM: You, too. Bye-bye.

BH: Bye.

CH: Brandon Hensler and his husband Michael Hensler have written an op-ed in the Tampa Bay Times about how Florida's so-called "Don't Say Gay" bill will harm their family. We reached Mr. Hensler in Land O'Lakes, Florida. And you can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Folk]

Wales Diaper Road

Guest: Rob Poyer

CH: When you think of diapers, green is probably not the first colour that comes to mind. But in a pilot project in Wales, over 100,000 used diapers have been repurposed to resurface roads. A much more environmentally friendly fate for a product that generally winds up in landfill -- where it takes forever to biodegrade. Rob Poyer is the director of NappiCycle, an organization that helped with the project. We reached him in Ammanford, Wales.

HM: Rob, how does the diaper road smell?

ROB POYER: Just like any other road?

HM: And is that a surprise to people when they learn that they're on a road made of used diapers?

RP: Indeed, it is. Yes. Yeah. To put it into context, it's… it's just a fibre element we use. So we turn the nappies… the used nappies after it goes through a process into fibre. And that fibre gets mixed in with asphalt to create a… a stronger asphalt.

HM: Before you get to explaining the process to people, though. What is the kind of reaction you get when you propose building a road out of diapers through their town?

RP: Oh, I think people are very open to the prospect of, you know, innovation. And actually utilizing, you know, materials getting a second use rather than going to the landfill or into incineration.

HM: Tell us about this particular road that is… this stretch anyway, that is made out of diapers? How busy is it? How long is it? That sort of thing?

RP: Well, the stretch we've done is a dual carriageway, and it's 1.4 miles long. It looks like normal asphalt. It's quite a busy main road. And throughout that 1.4-mile stretch, that is the equivalent of what would be about a hundred and… just over 100,000 used nappies or diapers, as you call them.

HM: That's a lot of nappies!

RP: Indeed, it is, yes.

HM: So you described part of the process. How does the technology work?

RP: Well, we accept the used diapers into our facility. They get collected by the local authorities in Wales, and it goes through a process where we break down the absorbent soup, absorbent polymers, in the waste. And then, in essence, we put it through a washing process. And what we're actually after is the fibrous element. We turn the nappy into a fibrous mass. And that fibre is then used in the asphalt.

HM: And what is that fibre? Is it a hydrocarbon? Is that what I understand?

RP: It's a mixture of cellulose fibres and polypropylene fibres, predominantly. So yeah, it is… it's a plastic. It's a… it's a hybrid fibre. So it's plastic fibres and cellulose fibres.

HM: So how much of the road ends up being nappies or diapers, and how much of it is made out of asphalt?

RP: In terms of sort of ratios, it's in terms of weight. Obviously, fibres are very, very light, and volumes and asphalt is incredibly heavy. So when you look at it in terms of weight, it's not very much. It's about 0.3 per cent. But in terms of volume, it's probably about three per cent by volume. And the fibres are used there to create sort of structurally reinforcing and also to homogenize the bitumen element within the asphalt.

HM: Where did the idea come from to use diapers?

RP: Well, fibres are used in asphalt and have been for a long time. In high-quality asphalt, you need fibres in there to mix the bitumen. So, we've just been doing research and development now for about a decade on what we can do with used nappies. So, yeah, the idea basically came from looking at what… what are the fibres used in other industries?

HM: So what is the environmental impact then of using these diapers in this kind of a… a process rather than handing them… having them going into landfill?

RP: Oh, there's a huge carbon reduction in terms of secondary use of these fibres. In the U.K., the fibres that get used in asphalt come from either Eastern Europe or from China. And are obviously brought over from Eastern Europe by road, China by sea. So producing local fibres for asphalt reduces obviously the carbon impact of just the transport alone. Plus, then it avoids these fibres going into either incineration or into landfill.

HM: How do you acquire the diapers? I assume this requires families with babies to… to buy into this?

RP: Well, in Wales, we've got an incredibly high recycling rate. So of municipal waste, our recycling rates are between about 65 and 70 per cent now. And are amongst the highest in the whole world. Wales is an incredibly sort of patriotic country, and it's also very sort of innovative as well in terms of achieving these targets that have been set by our government in Wales. So in Wales, there's an infrastructure being put in place by many of the local authorities within Wales to separately collect the diapers.

HM: I have to ask what it's like to work in your plant. Is there a point in the production process where it's pretty stinky?

RP: Um, you'd be surprised. It's not that bad. It doesn't smell of Paco Rabanne, but nevertheless, it… it's not particularly malodorous.

HM: [said in disbelief] Okay. And people in the neighbourhood of your plant, they're okay with it, too?

RP: Yeah, we've got… we've got neighbours within 10 metres of our site, industrial neighbours. And actually, I own a house, a small farm, about 250 metres away from… from the plant. So no, there's absolutely no problems at all.

HM: How many projects like this road exist or are in the works?

RP: Oh, we've got… we got lots of projects working with fibre. We produce a lot of fibreboard, which goes into the construction industry. We've done all sorts of research and development, even with working with universities on digesting the cellulose and turning it into glucose and then cementing it into bioethanol. So we're constantly doing research and development. And also, the technology of nappies is constantly changing. What a nappy or a diaper looks like today is very different what it looked like 10 years ago.

HM: Given the supply of disposable diapers, the number of roads out there, when you think about scaling this up, I mean, what's… what's the possible impact this could have? How big can it get?

RP: Well, in Wales, we produce about 24,000 tons of nappies, which come from the local authorities every year. If you look at U.K. wide, we produce around about 750,000 tons of used nappies and similar materials in the U.K. So, you know, this is one market which ultimately will probably be one of many different markets that this material is used for.

HM: It's actually quite interesting. [chuckle] I've really enjoyed talking with you. Thank you so much, Rob.

RP: No problem. Bye-bye now.

HM: Okay, bye-bye.

CH: Rob Poyer is the director of the diaper recycling company NappiCycle. We reached him in Ammanford, Wales.

[Music: Folksy guitar]

Stonehenge Was a Calendar

CH: It has to be stressful being a Stonehenge researcher. You devote years of your life to examining the minutiae of the world-famous monument, whose mysteries have enthralled people for generations. And then your "aha" moment risks being a "duh" moment. Over the years, we've done dozens of stories about Stonehenge. Let me just take a look here . . . [typing sounds] Yeah, three years ago, a scientist theorized that the people who built it used lard to slide the giant stones into place. And here's one from 2009 suggesting that the stones were arranged to create amazing acoustics for some kind of ritual. Maybe Neolithic people yelling "Echo!" The newest theory comes from Tim Darvill of Bournemouth University -- who believes that Stonehenge was once a gigantic calendar. I know: you know. Anyone who's seen photos of the dudes dressed up as druids during summer solstice knows that Stonehenge marks the seasons. But Mr. Darvill goes much further. He uses math -- believing the 30 stones in the main ring are the days of the month. Multiplied by twelve and you get 360 days. There are another five stones inside the ring to round out the year to 365. And four lying outside the circle for that extra day each leap year. Now, some of his colleagues praise his theory's "elegant simplicity". But others say it's inelegant oversimplification -- that Mr. Darvill is using his evidence selectively to fit his calendar scheme. Look, we will never know why people smeared rocks with lard 4,500 years ago to erect that monument. But we will also never stop trying. And I guarantee there will be a new theory about Stonehenge coming around. You can practically set your watch to it.

[Music: Banjo!!]

Part 2: Moldovan Refugees, Rocky Mountain Hut

Moldovan Refugees

Guest: Lars Lonnback

CH: Moldovans are addressing the Ukraine crisis by opening their doors. Their tiny republic is the poorest country in Europe. Now, the Russians who dominated them during Soviet times have invaded the country next door. Ukrainians started flooding to the border as soon as the invasion began. Tens of thousands have already crossed, and the flow continues tonight. That's a challenge for a country without much extra to go around. But Moldovans have responded with offers of food and transportation and places in their homes. Lars Lonnback is the Chief of Mission for the UN's Organization for Migration in Moldova. We reached him in Chișinău.

HM: Mr. Lonnback, how would you describe the situation at the Ukraine-Moldova border right now?

LARS LONNBACK: It's a very dire situation for the refugees and third-country nationals that are coming in right now. Of course, you can imagine that the amount of people coming in, the rate that they're coming in, is… is… the border facilities -- the infrastructure -- is not suited for… for that at all. And also, we have relatively cold weather right now. Today it was snowing. And we have both kilometres of queues of cars and also pedestrians coming in from Odesa, the nearest town. People walking across the border when they're standing in the queue and when they are told they can go over. So that is, in a nutshell, the situation right now. And people are staying hours and hours exposed to the elements.

HM: We're hearing, in some cases, crossing borders is taking days. Is it that long?

LL: Yes. I mean, for the people who come in, the pedestrians, they will… will stay for several hours. They're bussed in, and obviously not through the night, but people are coming in and being processed through the day. But they have to stay exposed to the elements. People are staying in cars, yes, for days sometimes, coming… coming over. So… so that is a very harsh situation for many vulnerable. Actually, we had one fatality the day before yesterday, an elderly woman who had passed away while staying in those kind of situations.

HM: What kind of immediate needs do the refugees have?

LL: In the beginning, there were people obviously who had planned to… to come from a metropolitan area like Odesa, Vinnytsia up in the north. That was in the first days, but now we're seeing people coming just with bags and have gone away very quickly. And unfortunately, we expect that as the hostilities get closer to the big towns close to the border here, that it will be a very dire situation and people literally fleeing coming over. So everybody has a need for some kind of shelter. Obviously, any kind of shelter that you can purchase has run out several days ago. So we are now, together with UNHCR and other UN agencies, building up reception centres and facilities for people so they can get shelter and stay for a certain period of time. And there is need for everything in terms of heating, food, protection and also services in terms of health, social kind of services as well.

HM: How has the Moldovan government, and how have Moldovan people responded to this influx of… of neighbours?

LL: Well, I must say I must laud the government, who has been extremely flexible. They have been extremely open. They are using expedited procedures at the border. Sometimes, they’re even looking at the documents that are expired, but they are letting people through, documenting that. So it's been a very good reception. The day before yesterday, the president of Moldova was down at the border and greeting the refugees who were coming in. And I think she's a bit of a symbol in general for the Moldovan people and how they have greeted these… these people. You can see people who have Ukrainian flags in their windows. And I think that they're getting a very good reception.

HM: How do you explain that response? Moldova's the poorest country in Europe, and yet, people are seemingly opening their doors, a hand of friendship?

LL: Well, I can maybe say that in a certain sense, Moldova and Ukraine have chosen the same kind of path forward. Recently, there was a new government elected here that is a pro-European government. So that sentiment amongst the electorate is… has been clearly shown. And the government is embracing European integration. And the same has… the same path that Ukraine has gone. So I can imagine that there's that kind of affinity. But of course, also there are many family ties across the border, a small border traffic all… all the time. So, there’s an affinity and also a sense of direction that is similar that these two countries are taking.

HM: We have spoken with a woman yesterday on the program who is Black, who is from Africa. She's just one of many people we're hearing reports from who have been fleeing the fighting in Ukraine, who are seeing racism as they try to cross into other countries. And sometimes, as they enter those countries. Have there been those sorts of issues in Moldova?

LL: We have heard, definitely heard, about these kind of incidents. And we as an organization, we… we firmly denounce that kind of attitude in relation to the third-country nationals, let's say, those who are not classified as the refugees who… who are the Ukrainians. But, the third-country nationals who are there to study, who are there to work, who are in Ukraine for various reasons, they are fleeing for the same reasons as the Ukrainians, naturally. So they are also in need of protection to a large extent, and there shouldn't be any discrimination in that regard. We have not seen so many direct incidences of that, but we are reporting that across the board as an organization. And… and we really want to have a discussion with the government here and assure that there is a very clear message of non-discrimination in that regard.

HM: Mr. Lonnjback, thank you very much. Some great challenges where you are. We appreciate you taking time to talk to us.

LL: Thank you very much for having me.

CH: Lars Lonnback is the Chief of Mission for the UN's Organization for Migration in Moldova. We reached him in Chișinău.

[Music: Acoustic guitar and violin]

Edmonton Mass Grave Found

CH: A note before we go on: this next story deals with disturbing details about residential schools. Members of the Kapawe'no First Nation in northern Alberta knew that there were children who'd gone to school and never come home. Survivors spoke of those who died. There are also some records. But now they have another piece of heartbreaking evidence. A search using ground-penetrating radar and drones has turned up 169 potential unmarked graves. Kisha Supernant is the Metis archaeologist who helped lead that search. She also has family members who died at the school. She spoke to CBC Edmonton about the discovery.

SOUNDCLIP

KISHA SUPERNANT: This work is always hard, no matter whether or not you have that connection, because it's very heartbreaking. And finding the graves of children is a very difficult process. At the same time, the extra layer of it being my relatives, it brings a whole nother realm of heartbreak. And seeing those surnames like the things that I share with these… these family members, and knowing they're, you know, likely my relations if they have those names, really brings it home in a different way. It's part of my family's story as well. At the same time, I'm grateful and humbled to be able to support my relatives in this journey. It is a very difficult journey to… to take. But I think we all hope that it will lead to a different kind of healing. That we need to uncover this truth. We need to bring this truth to non-Indigenous Canadians and the world so that healing can be actually undertaken because it's only just beginning. And I think we can expect a lot more happening over the next several years.

TARA MCCARTHY: There are three phases to this. This phase, the first phase, only covered one acre of the site. So, what are you looking at when it comes to the next phases of the search?

KS: So, the next phases will definitely expand to other areas of concern. We had focussed this first phase on those very much high-priority areas where there was immediate sort of interest in searching. Like you said, it's about an acre. We estimate there's about 100 acres just for the Grouard Mission site. And that's just one of several sites that the community is interested in searching. So as we build out to our phase two and three, how do we narrow down sort of areas? Because 100 acres is an overwhelming space to try to use GPR on. Like, we were out for six days, and we covered one acre. And then there's another school site as well, an Anglican school nearby, that also needs investigation.

CH: Kisha Supernant is the head of the Institute of Prairie and Indigenous Archaeology at the University of Alberta. She was speaking with CBC Edmonton's Tara McCarthy. A national Indian Residential School Crisis Line has been set up to provide support for residential school survivors and those affected. The number is 1-866-925-4419.

[Music: World]

Rocky Mountain Hut

Guest: Harvey Locke

CH: A century-old stone hut, precariously built on a pass in the Rocky Mountains, is coming down. As you may have heard last week on the show, Parks Canada says the Abbot Pass Refuge Cabin between British Columbia and Alberta will be torn down -- possibly as soon as this spring -- because erosion has made it too unstable. Harvey Locke is a conservationist in Banff. His grandfather helped build the hut in 1922. We reached him today at the airport in Newark, New Jersey.

HM: Harvey, what was it like when you learnt that the Abbott passed refuge cabinet is going to be taken down?

HARVEY LOCKE: It was a sad day. It's a wonderful place, full of important memories for people who love the mountains and for my family in particular.

HM: Before we get into what caused all this. Tell us a bit about the cabin, what it's been used for? Where it is? What it looks like?

HL: So it's this classic sort of mountain stone building built by Swiss guides, almost 3,000 metres up on… in a mountain pass between two high glaciated peaks. On one side is Lake Louise and Banff National Park, and on the other side is Lake Oesa and then Lake O'Hara in Yoho National Park. It sits right on the continental divide, meaning that a hypothetical raindrop or snowflake could fall on its ridgeline, and half of the water would end up in the Pacific Ocean and the other half in the Atlantic Ocean. So it's… it's… it's a place that's sort of steeped in sort of symbolism as the highest building in the country, permanent building in the country, which was for many years. And it also has sort of an aesthetic charm and a kind of a reputational dimension to it. And to the people who love mountains, it was just a very special place.

HM: How has it been used by mountaineers over the years?

HL: Well, it was built as a high mountain refuge, which was a thing much more common in the Alps than... than the Rockies. And part of after a very tragic accident on Mount Lefroy, where a man named Philip Abbot was killed in a climbing accident just before the turn of the 20th century, the Canadian Pacific Railway decided to bring in Swiss guides to make mountaineering more safe.

HM: And you mentioned these guides. How did they get the materials up there?

HL: Well, it was a stone building. So, of course, [chuckling] there were lots of stones in this high pass. But the timbers, the windows, things like that had to be brought up by packhorse. And it happened that my grandfather was the superintendent of the Brewster Transportation Company at Lake Louise, which had packhorses and buses at the time that it was built. And he was a colleague of the Swiss guides. And he was in charge of the pack spring that carried the building materials across the Victoria Glacier up through this very narrow defile between two very high mountain walls known as The Death Trap because of the risk of avalanches coming down, crashing into it in the afternoon. And then they carried the supplies up by packhorse to Abbot Pass across the glacier and then deposited them there. And in the course of one of the packing runs, actually, one of the packhorses fell into a crevasse, which is a break in the surface of the glacier and was never recovered. And the packhorse's, my grandfather told me, the horse's name was Bula. So someday, we can expect to see Bula come melting out of the snow of the Victoria Glacier, still wearing the packsaddle and building supplies that were strapped to her back. That may be the last remnant of Abbot Hut, actually.

HM: It sounds like your grandfather told you a lot about the… the refuge. He must have been very proud of his involvement with it?

HL: Well, it was... it was kind of a neat thing. You know, at the time, at Lake Louise, there was… the Canadian Pacific Railway was very dominant in tourism in Banff Park. And the Brewster Transport Company was the company that brought people around by bus and horse and stuff. And so there was an old line which came to Banff for a change and a rest. Brewsters get the change, and CPR get the rest. And the idea there was it was kind of a community of people who lived there and worked there supporting tourism. The Swiss guides… the building the Swiss guides lived in is still on the lakeshore. You can still see it. And my grandfather had the only house that was behind the big hotel. And it was actually in that house that my mother was born in 1925. So the place has a lot of significance to my family.

HM: Mm-hmm.

HL: And Abbot Hut is very much a part of that story. And I was able to get up there when I was a younger man, and my father was also up there. And so, it has an intergenerational significance for us. And I think for many, many other people who climbed, and who sort of know mountain lore, Abbot Hut is just sort of one of those special places. All of that is sort of… it takes a bit of a hit when you take down Abbot Hut.

HM: When were you last there? When did you see the cabin?

HL: I was probably there about 1980-81, last time I was there. I've seen it in the distance. You can actually see it if you've been hiking at Lake Louise. So it was sort of always there, always a comforting reminder that it was there. And now, of course, it'll be taken down because it's unstable. And this is actually, you know, the loss of this is very symbolic because it's also a reflection of just how physical and immediate climate change is when you live in Banff National Park. Like, this is not some abstract concept. You see the evidence of it everywhere. This is causing this building to disappear. But that's not the only thing we see. We see glaciers receding rapidly. We've see a tree line rising. Literally, places where there weren't trees before that have trees now. Quite remarkable when you live in a place like Banff that you can actually see this unfolding before your eyes. that you have. And to have Abbot Hut as casualty of that is sad. And also, sort of deepens at least my determination that we should do something about the dysfunctional relationship that we have with the natural world at the moment as a species.

HM: What other landmarks in the area do you think that we will soon lose because of climate change?

HL: Well, perhaps the most profound concern is the speed at which glaciers are melting. Last summer, when we had the heat dome, it was just surreal. I remember driving towards Lake Louise, and my car thermometer said 39 degrees, which I think… and I've actually tested this with a couple of glaciologists I know, is that no one could ever remember being around the thermometer that read that temperature in view of a glacier anywhere in the history of the world.

HM: Mm-hmm.

HL: That's how weird this is getting, how troubling it's getting. And it's really, you know, this Abbot Hut demise, if you will, is because there's… you know, where there was rocks with permanent snow and ice in them that were part of the broad saddle… well, not broad saddle, but broad enough saddle where the building was built. And they've just melted. And so, the rocks have tumbled away and left the foundation sort of dangling. And they can't… can't rescue it because the physical feature that it was on isn't the same physical feature anymore.

HM: It's a shame. I hate hearing about things like this being lost. Harvey, thank you so much for telling us about it.

HL: Well, thanks for your interest.

HM: All right. Nice to talk to you. Goodbye.

HL: Thank you. Bye.

CH: Harvey Locke is a Banff conservationist whose grandfather helped build the Abbot Pass Refuge Cabin, which Parks Canada has said will be taken down. We reached him in Newark, New Jersey.

[Music: World]

SOD: WPG Ukrainian Choir

CH: Last night's hockey game between the Winnipeg Jets and Montreal Canadiens didn't begin with the Canadian anthem. Instead, the Jets honoured the thousands of Ukrainian-Canadians living in Manitoba, by inviting the Hoosli Ukrainian Male Chorus to perform the Ukrainian anthem. From TSN, here is our Sound of the Day.

SOUNDCLIP

ANNOUNCER: During this devastating time of unrest, True North and the Winnipeg Jets express heartfelt support for Ukraine, and for more than 180,000 Ukrainian Canadians living in Manitoba.

[Sound: Applause and cheers]

ANNOUNCER: We stand with our community in expressing our sadness for the loss, devastation and continued threat to Ukraine. And we join the world in its calls for peace. And now, to perform tonight's anthems, please welcome back Hoosli Ukrainian Male Chorus.

[Music: “Ukrainian National Anthem” as sung by Hoosli Ukrainian Male Chorus]

CH: The Hoosli Ukrainian Male Chorus singing the Ukrainian national anthem at the Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg last night, before the NHL game between the Jets and the Canadiens.

[Music: Electronica]

Part 3: Somalia Elections Postponed, P.E.I Potatoes Destroyed

Somalia Elections Postponed

Guest: Ali Omar

CH: Somalia's elections should have happened more than a year ago. Then months ago. Then, last week. Instead, they've been delayed yet again. The deadline for the vote has been pushed repeatedly since last February, amid political infighting. Finally, leaders agreed it would conclude on February 25th. It did not. Now, Somali leaders have extended parliamentary elections to the 15th of this month. All this has made the international community extremely uneasy. Last Friday, the U.S. said the delays were "driving political instability, threatening security gains and undermining economic development." Ali Omar is a Somali MP and former chief of staff to the country's previous president, Hassan Sheikh Mohamud. We reached him in Mogadishu.

HM: Mr. Omar, why has it been so difficult for authorities in Somalia to hold and conclude these elections on time?

ALI OMAR: Yeah. Historically, Somalia is a very unique situation where we have around 30 years of either no government or interim government or government with minimum responsibility of power. So in the past eight years, we were doing something called indirect election. Because direct election is not possible at this time due to logistic, security, economic and a lot of other factors. So the indirect election is even itself logistically difficult. That's why it's taking a duration of two or three months rather than one-day election, as you do in Canada or in other developed countries.

HM: But the election has been delayed multiple times now. How far is Somalia from concluding this electoral process?

AO: As of now, about 80 per cent is completed. The remaining 20 per cent is planned to be done in the next two weeks. It's possible that it may go three weeks. But hopefully, the election will be done within March. So it will not go beyond March.

HM: You… you mentioned the system being different. It's not a one-person, one-vote kind of election. How does this actually work?

AO: Since Somalia doesn't have a census or a population-based seat allocation, the way we allocate the seats in Somalia is based on a clan. Seeing as there was a conflict and there was some civil war in the past, the clans were the main distribution system, where we have something called 4.5, which is the four major clans and a collection of other smaller clans that we call .5s. So, for example, in our parliament is 275. The four major clans have six to one seat each. And these smaller clans have three to one altogether. So it's an indirect election. It worked in 2012. It worked in 2016. Hopefully, this would be the last time that we use this system. Hopefully, now we are in a position to move to a more advanced system that may be based on a district rather than a clan.

HM: Why has it been so difficult for the current government to do what it promised, and that is to deliver electoral reform?

AO: Yeah, there's two issues. One is the will of this government was not as strong as it was supposed to be. Second is, in the past, they have done elections in the… in the state level. And all of them have some problems, there's some conflict. So there was a trust deficit, so people were not trusting the government to do the right thing.

HM: This delay, the series of delays, has not been without cost. The U.S. has imposed visa restrictions on some Somali officials. The International Monetary Fund is threatening to withhold funds. How damaging will this be to Somali people if the elections are not concluded by March 15th?

AO: I think the election will be completed, but the damage has been done. Whether it's a trust within the Somalis, or whether it's a trust from the donor community to the Somali government or the Somali people.

HM: What… what financial impact is this having on the country? I mean, the IMF has already withheld some of the funds. You're dealing with a drought. You mentioned aid organizations perhaps being reluctant. So… so, what's the actual financial impact?

AO: In the past six months, many donors either stopped or suspended all other pledges that… that was going to Somalia. The IMF also has withheld some development projects. And as you said, the country is experiencing a very, very serious drought. So, in general, you can feel the market. I mean, the economic situation is really very, very dire -- a very, very bad situation. The common people are suffering a lot.

HM: You said that the current government lacks the will to achieve the political reform it's promised. Why could your party not deliver on electoral reform when you were in power?

AO: Actually, when we were in power, we inherited a system where only one elder was writing the names of the MPs of that whole clan. When we came to power, I mean, at that time, Somalia was a federal system. At that time, there was no federal member state, and so we had to work very hard to create the member states. And that took us time. We created for member states. And then, when the election came around, we had to figure out a different way, the way it used to be done before, where in 2012, one elder was writing the name of one or two or three MPs, depending on the clan's allocation. And then, we introduced the system that we call the indirect election, where the elders of the clan will delegate a caucus of 51. And that 51 will choose one MP. If the clan has two MPs, they would choose 102, and so on. So it was a bit of an improved system, and we were hoping that this government would take it a step further and would improve the process, making it as close to the direct election as possible. If not, something better than what they have inherited. But due to the lack of the will, I think they went back to the same situation that they took from us.

HM: What are your expectations as to when the current election will actually conclude?

AO: The current discussion that was ongoing within the opposition and the government, the plan is to end the election by maybe mid-March, or maybe up to March 20th. And then, call the MPs to come to Mogadishu and do the remaining process where they have to get the certificates and be formally registered and sworn in by end of the month. And then, by the first week of April, they will choose the speakers of both houses, the Upper House and the Lower House. That will form an election committee for the presidency. That will happen, hopefully, by the first or second week of May. So by that time, we are hopeful that Somalia will have an elected new government.

HM: All right, we will continue to watch. Mr. Omar, thank you very much for talking to us.

AO: Thank you, Helen.

CH: Ali Omar is an MP in Somalia and the former chief of staff to the country's former president Hassan Sheikh Mohamud. We reached him in Mogadishu.

[Music: Slow instrumental]

Calgary Jeopardy! Guy

CH: Ujal Thakor says a lifetime of random fact retention is paying off. After a long audition process, the Calgary resident was tapped to be a contestant on Jeopardy! His episode airs tonight. He says he's the first Canadian resident on the game show in two years. And while he couldn't reveal how he did, he spoke about the moment he knew he could go from someone playing on the couch at home to a real contestant.

SOUNDCLIP

UJAL THAKOR: There was one game, and I wish I could remember the question, but where on the "Final Jeopardy", all three contestants got it wrong, and I got it right. [DG chuckles] And I thought, you know what? I've got a shot at this.

DAVID GRAY: All right, Mr. Smart Guy, what makes you so good at Jeopardy!?

UT: It's a combination of definitely that knowledge, you know, being able to retain all the different facts around so many topics, but it's still a game. So there are elements like being able to recall those answers in the five seconds you're given. Or decipher the way they write the clues because there's a certain Jeopardy! style of doing it. Even things like training for the buzzer. I spent hours and hours practicing my buzzer speed and technique because often, a question is on the board that all three contestants know, and it's a matter of who's first to ring in. And wagering strategy, too. A lot of contestants you've seen in the past have been entering in a good position and, just with a bad wager, may take themselves out of the running. So there's a lot of different facets to perfect as you get ready.

DG: I was unaware of your level of commitment here. So, hang on a minute. The buzzer, this sounds like an old WKRP episode. How did you speed up your buzzer time?

UT: First, I read a book. There's someone, a previous contestant, who's actually written an entire book on the buzzer. [DG chuckles] How to hold it, where to put your hands, etc.

DG: Okay.

UT: And there's an app he's created where you can check your time. And so, my goal was to get below 200 milliseconds. They say generally that's kind of champion-level buzzing. When I first started practicing, I was at about 300. And it was just over time, and in practice, I started to bring that down and getting to about 180 to 200 milliseconds, which sounds like a small increment, but it makes all the difference sometimes.

DG: Champion level buzzing. It's just a thumb click, isn't it?

UT: It is, but it's a very serious part of the game. Actually, during any of the breaks and filming, the producers would come up to us and make sure our buzzer was working, so no one could ever complain that they weren't ringing in because of some sort of tech issue. It's a big part of being a contestant, for sure.

DG: Now, I should have established this a long time ago, but what's your day job?

UT: I'm a director of strategy with FYA Doctors, a Calgary-based optometry and health care company with locations all over the country. So even talking to different clinics we have gives me a little bit of a refresher on Canadian geography, which you hope will come up.

DG: Your hope for Canadian geography, but you know that you're going to get stuck with stuff. You could end up with... I don't know, American college football teams or something. How do you study for this? How do you prepare?

UT: A few different sources. So I bought about 30 textbooks, junior high to university level, on all these topics. The industrial revolution and Greek mythology. U.S. presidents, of course, U.S. geography, and really drill down on those. That plus things like Wikipedia. So, for example, there was a whole category when I was studying on college football conferences in the U.S., a complete black hole. [DG chuckles] So I spent an hour on Wikipedia, trying to memorize the difference between the PAC-12, the SEC, the ACC, because I knew there's a chance I may need to know what those are. And I'm against people who probably went to one of the colleges in that conference and could nail those questions.

CH: That was Calgary Jeopardy! contestant Ujal Thakor speaking with David Gray, host of CBC's Calgary Eyeopener today.

[Music: Folk]

Journalist In Obits Isn’t Dead

CH: Earlier this week, Mark Melnychuk tweeted an announcement people don't usually feel they need to make on Twitter: that he was alive. But he felt he needed to establish that seemingly obvious fact after finding images of himself in online obituaries. Mr. Melnychuk is a reporter with the Regina Leader-Post. Here he is explaining that he first learned about what was happening from a stranger who contacted him on Twitter.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK MELNYCHUK: They basically just said, I don't know if you're aware of this, but a friend of mine who has the same first and last name as you passed away. And now, your image is being used on his obituary websites. And then after that, I just googled myself and obituary, and a bunch of them came up on a bunch of I don't know how to describe them other than they look like websites that would probably give you a virus. Like, they're just real weird-looking, spammy kind of websites. It was weird and kind of creepy, but I kind of just thought to myself, well, like, what can I do? Like, this is kind of maybe the price you pay for making yourself online so much. Like, I have like two different Twitter accounts that I put my real name on. You know, I kind of just thought to myself, oh, maybe it was only a matter of time until this happened. And one of the first things I did… like, I don't know. I think my parents might sometimes google my name to read my articles. So I texted my mom right away just to let her know I was okay and that nothing happened to me. And that this is just some weird thing that happened. It's kind of amusing, but at the end of the day, like, it's also like, someone really did die with my name, so I don't want to maybe make fun of it too much, you know? It is kind of weird. And some people were tweeting at me, they think because I have a Ukrainian name, they were like, well, maybe this is some sort of Russian, like die-off, like… [laughing] or something like that because you're Ukrainian and a journalist. And I was like, I don't know. I guess that's plausible. I don't think that's necessarily likely because I don't really think that scenario is likely. Because, like, just from my googling, I found some news articles about a couple… like, someone by name… with my name who did pass away. So, like, I don't know what it is?

CH: That was Regina Leader-Post reporter Mark Melnychuk speaking to the CBC after photos of him started showing up in online obituaries.

[Music: Horns!!!]

P.E.I Potatoes Destroyed

Guest: Jason Webster

CH: Jason Webster just finished destroying millions of potatoes. Mr. Webster operates MWM Farms in Kinkora, Prince Edward Island. He and his fellow growers were given until the end of the week to eliminate last year's crop, as part of a federal-provincial compensation program. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency had stopped the potatoes from being shipped to the United States after potato wart was found in two provincial fields. We reached Jason Webster in Middleton, P.E.I.

HM: Mr. Webster, how did you destroy your potatoes?

JASON WEBSTER: Well, we… we basically moved into our bins with our loader tractors, and we loaded them on dump trucks, and we hauled most of our potatoes off of our farm to different cattle producers so they can use them for cattle feed.

HM: So they'll just feed them directly to their cattle?

JW: Yes. Yeah, it's a normal thing. But the majority, a big amount of the potatoes that have been destroyed by my friends and neighbours. They've had to go out on the fields, and they've been blown through snowblowers just because of just the sheer volume. There's not enough cattle producers around to use that kind of volume up.

HM: Tell me about the snowblowers. That seems unusual. Why would they use snowblowers?

JW: Well, the main reason is in order to safely destroy [slight chuckle] the product, which is disappointing, talking about safely destroying perfectly good food. But what we do is we take the trucks out of the field, we spread the potatoes in the field, and then we use the snowblower to… it chops the potatoes up a bit, plus it spreads them a little more evenly around the field. And then, the freezing temperatures we have then will freeze the potatoes. And they will break down very quickly after that and not become a foreign or pest issue for the following crop or a disease issue for the following crop.

HM: It sounds messy?

JW: It is messy. It's… it's… it's not something you… you won't even be doing. I know a lot of guys, they try to ask their hired hands to run the blowers [chuckling] because they don't want to be the guys out there staring at it all day. It's hard as a farmer to do that.

HM: How many potatoes did you end up sending off?

JW: We sent off our farm around six million pounds of potatoes.

HM: And how much do you generally produce in a year?

JW: On our farm, we'll produce upwards to 40 million pounds of potatoes a year.

HM: That's still a lot of your… a lot of your crop there.

JW: Well, it's always your last 10 per cent that is your profit in the business, right? That's the depressing part. [chuckle] It's… when you hit a real good year like we did in this past growing season, really the best in memory, best in 20 years of memory, anyways, it's just an awful shame. Because you put so much time and effort, our staff put so much time and effort into it, and it's… it's just an awful shame to be seeing what's happening with it.

HM: Yeah. You know, as a non-farmer, it's… it's hard to imagine. You've put all this time, a better part of a year, planning, planting, tending, harvesting, and then you have to destroy everything that you've worked for.

JW: That's… that's basically what's going on. And there's… everybody's having to destroy a percentage. Some are destroying more than others. If you're a seed grower, this has even more impact on you. And if you're mostly table, then it's also a very large impact. Our farm has all three of the sectors: seed, table and processing, so we're we're in a little different situation, but we're still feeling the impact. Because we… you know, we had tried to diversify ourselves so that we could enjoy the good years when a year like this came along. But instead, we're actually going to go behind a little bit. So… and there's others that are going to go behind the lot. And that's what… that's what's really bothersome in all this.

HM: Why is it going to cost seed potato producers more?

JW: Largely because the seed potato market, with what's gone on with the U.S. border closure, and the way that the… [sigh] the way that the USDA and CFTA have handled this is they're going to wait a long period of time before they decide what seed can go off P.E.I. So, for now, nobody can sell a seed off of P.E.I. And a lot of seed growers had markets in Ontario, Quebec, you know, New Brunswick. But even domestically, we can't ship seed off P.E.I. So, when you have relationships with… with other growers in Ontario that you've cultivated over the last 25 years. I have friends that have done that. And now, all of a sudden, that's all shut down. That's…. that's… that's tough, you know? You spend a lot of your lifetime building that great relationship up, and then all of a sudden, overnight, it's just shut off. Even though, you know, the friends that I'm talking about here, their… their fields are non… non-restricted zones. They don't have wart on their farms or near their farms, and they're still being shut down, so.

HM: And there's no chance that they would get wart if they used the seed potatoes from the area?

JW: Not in the non restricted fields, no. You know, it's quite safe. That's why we have… we have this program that's been in place for the last 20 years, and it's been revised different times over the last 20 years. And CFIA has been diligently watching them, and the industry has been, so fields that are on the non-restricted fields, there really is no risk. I've even had friends of mine explain to me that growers from other provinces that want their seeds, still want their seed, would like to get it, but can't, say I've been growing your potatoes for years. If you… I know you don't have wart because I don't have wart, so keep sending them, please.

HM: Mmm-hmmm.

JW: You know? So it's… it's… it's just very tough on… on everyone.

HM: Can I ask how much this is costing you?

JW: It's going to cost us hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in our own operation. And for some farms, it's actually shutting them down. I know of a couple that have decided they're not going to grow next year because of the uncertainty of all of this. They just… they just can't… they can't justify it.

HM: You sound weary. As you look towards the planting season, is this affecting how you're… you're planning that crop?

JW: Absolutely is. We're all as growers trying to figure out what to do because we're… we… every year, we deal with the uncertainty of Mother Nature. And we've all grown up to learn that that's… that's part of… that's part of being a farmer. But there's just been no way to manage around this. And what do you do this spring? That's what we keep saying is we need an answer soon, so that our growers can make decisions. Because they're about to put a crop in the ground. And how much of a crop do they put in the ground? And we are planning on… on cutting back ourselves to be… to be careful. And I know other growers that are cutting back a lot. It just doesn't feel good coming into the spring with… with all this uncertainty. It's… I know it sounds easy to say just uncertainty. But it's… it's not. It's hard… it's hard to manage your business that way.

HM: Sure. No, it's a tough time, I'm sure. Thank you very much for telling us what you're going through. I appreciate it.

JW: You're welcome, Helen. Thank you for talking to us.

CH: Jason Webster operates MWM Farms in Kinkora, Prince Edward Island. We reached him in Middleton, P.E.I.

[Music: Carnival]

Harry Belafonte Birthday

CH: There was a star-studded bash last night in New York. John Legend was there. Spike Lee. Laurence Fishburne. Angela Davis. But this wasn't just a party, it was a gathering with a purpose. It was a celebration of Harry Belafonte's 95th birthday. Mr. Belafonte is almost as famous for his activism as he is for his singing. So it was fitting that the fete was a benefit for his social justice organization, Sankofa. In 2015, Harry Belafonte spoke with the CBC show Ideas about the fight for racial justice, and his friendship with Martin Luther King Jr. Here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

HARRY BELAFONTE: Well, it's one thing to step to the fabric of life and to pull a thread that you think is out of line. And then, when he tug at that thread, he found out that the canvas is in fact unravelling. Because you saw the struggle of Rosa Parks in Montgomery, Alabama, on that bus. And what Black people were going through in that little village in the south of the United States, deeply connected to what was going on in the Congo. What was going on in Vietnam. What was going on in Latin America. He found the more he pulled the thread, the more you find how interconnected everything was, and the world needed to be liberated. When he first called and asked that I serve him and serve our cause, he just said that he had no idea where he was going. He stepped into something that was not of his making, but that forced him into a place where he had accepted some responsibility to lead it or to lead aspects of it. And he didn't know quite what that meant, but he knew that he couldn't turn away from it. And in looking to serve this thing that he knew so little about… that doesn’t mean that he was intellectually anaemic, it just meant that he had never done this before. And now, being called upon to this service, he realized he didn't know as much as he thought he did or would have to know. And that he would hopefully gather around him forces that he suspected might be able to assist him. I had a very high-profile as… as a cultural figure. I commanded a vast audience globally. He heard of me and the things that I had been committed to before I took up the cause with him. I'd been very much involved and… well, I participated in the Second World War. I volunteered for it. I'd done a lot of things in the struggle against McCarthyism. I worked tenaciously with the labour movement of the development of that movement. And he saw all these things in my earlier life as a… as an environment that looked fairly attractive to him. When I first committed to it, I must say in my naivete, I suspected that, you know, I'll give him a year or two and we'll get this thing over with and then move on to life. What I didn't know that it would be an eternal journey, never ending. Constantly, every day you have a victory, you awaken six more challenges. And I came to a point in my life, especially after his death, that one should not look for an ending. One should look for only the opportunity to better the way in which we go for the ending.

CH: Harry Belafonte speaking on Ideas on CBC Radio in 2015. Mr. Belafonte celebrated his 95th birthday this week.

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March 02, 2022 Episode Transcript

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