Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2021

The AIH Transcript For July 28, 2021

[hosts]Ginella Massa, Chris Howden[/hosts]

GINELLA MASSA: Hi, I'm Ginella Massa, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

GM: Mental gymnastics. A former Olympic gymnast tells us what's at stake for someone like Simone Biles when competing becomes scary -- and says anyone critical of her decision to withdraw can stick it.

CH: No shirt, no shot, no service. A San Francisco bar owner says his decision to not serve unvaccinated customers indoors is first and foremost about protecting his staff.

GM: Called forth to prevent a fourth. With COVID spreading fast again in Alberta, the province is hurtling toward a fourth wave -- unless vaccine holdouts step up to get their shots.

CH: These are the songs that never end.A Norwegian company is asking the music world which recordings should go in a new Doomsday music vault.

GM: scoop first, get asked questions later. A competitor in a biennial "Cannonball Run" from one coast of the U.S. to the other describes the appealing -- and appalling -- aspects of spending 10 days on a scooter.

CH: And... screaming themselves horse. Two teams of scientists have a burr under their saddles -- because they disagree on whether horses can recognize themselves in mirrors.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Wednesday edition. Radio that wonders if a gift horse looks itself in the mouth?

[music: theme]

Part 1: Simone Biles Olympic Withdrawal, Alberta COVID Spread, Scooter Cannonball Race

Simone Biles Olympic Withdrawal

Guest: Claudia Fragapane

CH: She was supposed to come home a two-time Olympic champion. Instead, Simone Biles has become a champion for athletes' mental health. The American gymnast is widely considered the greatest of all time in her sport. But just one event into this week's team competition in Tokyo, she announced she'd be taking a time-out. And now, Ms. Biles has confirmed she won't be competing in tomorrow's individual all-around competition either. Her decision shocked the gymnastics world. But it's a decision a lot of the sport's stars could relate to. Including former British Olympic gymnast Claudia Fragapane. We reached Ms. Fragapane in Brecon Beacons, Wales.

GM: Claudia, you've actually competed against Simone Biles. What does it take for an athlete at that top-level to say I'm out?

CLAUDIA FRAGAPANE: Oh, she's just got amazing personality, amazing strength. And I think it shocked a lot of people. But, to be honest, competing with her, being an athlete myself, you... you have to take on so much, and she's got way more pressure than what all of us have put together because a lot of people expect her to get gold medals and for it to be easy. But it just proves that she is human, and it's really hard for her at times.

GM: Right. And I want to talk also about the real and dangerous impact of what those nerves can mean when it comes to competing and performing. But let me take you to that moment where she did that vault where she kind of wobbled on the landing.

CF: Yeah.

GM: Can you walk us through what you saw when you watched that?

CF: For me, I just felt like she got kind of lost in the air. I didn't think she was as comfortable going in as what she normally is. For me watching her doing that, it was a massive shock. But then I was like, gosh. She could have hurt herself. It is scary for your body. And also, it's really hard on your head-wise because then your head feels all confused on where you've been on the twists and turns and everything. And it can be really, really hard to get out of that place.

GM: Right. Let's talk a little bit more about that because she withdrew right after that, that vault. And she later just said she was having a bit of the twisties. And I'd love for you to explain a little bit what that means and just how dangerous it can be. Because, as you say, if you pull out of a move, you know, a mistake can cost you more than just points.

CF: Yeah. So for her, saying about the twisties is when as you get older, you start to learn more and more twists. You go from half twists, and you can go as far as quadruple. And you sometimes get a bit of blockage when it comes to twisting; you get confused. Now, she did it when she had her arm up, and she was in the middle of a competition. It's so dangerous because if you pull out halfway through and you get lost, you could be in any direction, and you don't know. With us doing that, we know exactly where we're going, where we're about to land. We're very good at spotting everything. And obviously, Simone is even better at all of that. So for her to stop halfway through, it messed everything up, including obviously, it was hard for her mental health as well. And I just hope she's OK after that because it takes a lot on the mind and body.

GM: You've had some pretty dramatic experiences with this yourself. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

CF: Yeah. So I was going for one of my Olympic trials. I did one really successfully the week before, and then we had another one. And during the weeks, I was feeling very stressed, but I was doing quite well. But then, when I got on the floor, I just felt really tired and drained. I was going into my last tumble, and it was quite slow -- the entry. So I said to myself, I'll just do a single somersault. But then, when I was halfway through the single somersault, I randomly went for another somersault, which was crazy. I landed on my head and neck, and I passed out on the floor for a few seconds. And then, next thing I know, I'm on a stretcher to be rushed to the hospital. And then I wasn't allowed to, like, move because they thought I could have been paralyzed. So that was really scary. And then, luckily, I just got a really bad concussion. But it's taken me five months to properly come back and be like at my good self head wise. And even in those five months, it took me a while because I'd be like, oh, I'm fine. I went to go into my last trial the week before and I started getting really dizzy before my tumbles. And I couldn't push anymore because it's getting really dangerous. And that's when I said to myself, OK, I'll stop. So for Simone to realize that straight away and just say, look, hang on, I'm just going to... I'm going to stop. I really give my hat off to her. She's just such an inspiration.

GM: Yeah. I mean that that moment of second-guessing yourself or making a mistake or a decision can be career-ending or even life-ending. Simone did talk to reporters about her decision. Let's play a little bit of that.

SOUNDCLIP

SIMONE BILES: Today has been really stressful. We had to work out this morning. It went OK. And then just that five-and-a-half-hour wait or something, I was just like shaking, could barely nap. I've just never felt like this going into a competition before. And I tried to go out here and have fun. And warm-up in the back went a little bit better. But then, once I came out here, I was like, no, mental is not there. So I just need to let the girls do it and focus on myself.

GM: How significant is it to hear someone like Simone Biles, who, you know, is described as the GOAT -- greatest of all time -- has all of these Olympic achievements? There's nothing she can't do. And for her to step back and say, no, I have to prioritize my mental health. How significant is it to hear that on this stage?

CF: Gosh, it's just like you... you've got a lot of athletes that will turn around and gymnasts that will say, no, I'm just going to go for it. But for her, she's not a selfish person. And in her interview, she said these girls that she trained with has worked so hard. I don't want to cost them a medal. And for her, just to step aside is amazing because I... I reckon she'd feel quite sad that she wasn't a part of it. And she didn't... she didn't do the competition with them and have that atmosphere. And it's just Simone doing that, I think she's inspired a lot of people, and she's also opened eyes for a lot of people to actually go, hang on a minute, mental health is really, really important, and it's just as important as hurting your ankle.

GM: And yet at the same time, there are people who are critical who've, you know, Piers Morgan accusing her of walking out on her teammates and saying, you know, is... is mental health going to be the go-to excuse for any poor performance? What do you make of the critics?

CF: Well, I've actually just commented on one of his tweets that he posted. I don't follow him, but I just think his disgust in the way he thinks of that or any negativity people have said. Because to be honest, those people that are writing in all of that stuff, they haven't achieved anything major in their life. All they do is they criticize, and they sit behind that computer posting horrible things. And I think people like that are just jealous. They want a reaction from other people. And I think if I'm going to give advice to Simone, I'd say ignore these comments and just keep living your life because you only live one life, and you should just be as happy as you can.

GM: Claudia, thanks so much for sharing your insights and your story, and we're wishing you all the best on your recovery.

CF: Thank you.

CH: Claudia Fragapane is a former Olympic gymnast and two-time bronze medalist at the World Championships. We reached her in Brecon Beacons, Wales. And for more on this story, visit our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: bright piano]

Alberta COVID Spread

Guest: Craig Jenne

CH: They're the two words that Albertans are dreading: "fourth wave". But that's what the province may be in for as the COVID-19 transmission rate grows to alarming levels. The virus is now spreading faster than during the height of the pandemic's third wave -- although current caseloads are still low. Craig Jenne is an immunologist at the University of Calgary.

GM: Professor, what worries you most about the rate that covid is spreading in Alberta right now?

CRAIG JENNE: To me, the most surprising issue is how quickly those numbers are starting to go up. So in a matter of about a week, we've gone from low 30s of new cases a day to well over 100. So this is quite explosive growth. And really, the question is, will this continue, or are we seeing a small bump after the reopening?

GM: And do we know what's driving these transmissions?

CJ: Unfortunately, not. In Alberta, you know, nearly half of the cases really don't have a clear, identified transmission event. So we have to remember that if we go out in the community, we probably can't name everybody we had contact with or everybody we stood beside in a checkout line at a store or waiting at a restaurant with. So those become very difficult to trace where you may have caught the virus. And as a result, we don't know what activities in the community are directly driving these numbers.

GM: What about vaccinations? Do we know what role that's playing?

CJ: Well, the good news is, as we saw in the third wave, was vaccines were able to significantly decrease the fatality rate. So we had record numbers of hospitalizations, but our loss of life was lower than what we had seen earlier in the pandemic. So that's great news, but it doesn't necessarily mean we're not going to see a rise in hospitalizations. If we look across the province, about one-third of Albertans do not have any vaccine. And there are still a significant number that only have one dose of vaccine at this point.

GM: And do we have any understanding about what's making people unwilling or unable to get vaccinated? As you say, almost 36 per cent of Albertans haven't received a single shot.

CJ: We believe the number of people that are absolutely against vaccines are pretty small. So it does leave a substantial number of Albertans who are perhaps hesitant, still open to the idea but haven't got the shot yet. And that could be for a number of reasons. We do have to realize that not everybody has access to where the vaccine is being distributed. So, people that work, you know, off-hours and may not be able to access the clinics when they're open or perhaps working more remotely may not have ease of access to vaccines. But there is also still a group that, for some reason, are waiting to see what happens. And really, the problem here is if numbers begin to rise and that convinces somebody to get vaccinated, it's still going to take almost two months for that individual to have full protection. So this is not an instant fix.

GM: I have to wonder, though, what's happening that's different in Alberta than the rest of Canada. And, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, the Stampede just happened July 9th to 18th. The premier seems to be pushing the province toward complete reopening. And do you think that also does something to the psychology of people feeling like this is done?

CJ: Yeah, I think very much the psychology is that it is done. It is summer. It's time to move on. And... and although we encourage people to get out there and try and embrace safe activities, just because things are open doesn't necessarily mean that they are safe for everybody. And there is a degree of assuming personal risk. Were cases driven by Stampede? I think it's hard to say -- that the number of confirmed cases is relatively low. But, you know, as we were discussing earlier, there are a lot of unknown transmissions in the province. But also associated with things like Stampede are all the other activities. From July 1st, we are essentially an open province with no further restrictions, with very small exemptions for health care units or long-term care facilities. So as of July 1st, no capacity limits on restaurants, bars, shops, no mask bylaws anymore. And as a result, life is returning more or less to normal. And that was what led to the initial viral spreads in 2020.

GM: And so do you think, though, then, that the government should be careful about the rate at which they're accelerating this reopening and things like mask mandates? You know, I had a friend who... from Toronto just went to visit Banff. And she said no one's wearing masks here and it's very strange coming from Ontario. Do you feel like it needs... the reins need to be pulled in a little bit? You know, are they taking these numbers seriously?

CJ: It's difficult to say. What we had seen in the past is that there were perhaps instances where lesser or more light restrictions, had... had they been brought in earlier, may have avoided the more severe restrictions that we did see at the peak of the second and the peak of the third wave. So we may be getting in this situation. And I think it's important to stress right now that although the growth of virus is concerning, the overall number is still fairly low. But if they continue to grow, we may need to see some… some light restrictions brought in if we want to avoid those more severe restrictions later in the fall or early in winter.

GM Right. I wanted to ask you about that, because in the U.S., we've seen a resurgence of COVID cases, either because of not enough people getting vaccines, some states having to kind of go back and bring in restrictions. So do you worry that we're going to have to get to that point where we're going to have to undo everything that... that has been achieved?

CJ: That is the worry. And, I mean, that's... that's the last thing we want to see. I don't think there are any of us that are happy to see restrictions come back into play. But we do have to remember that, for example, when school is going to start in September, although they are generally lower risk of severe illness, some kids do get very sick. And we're about to put classrooms back into service with largely unvaccinated children in primary school and even junior high.

GM: It's been a tough year-and-a-half, and I know for a lot of people they're just ready for this to be over. The thought of a fourth wave for you, how does that make you feel?

CJ: It's frustrating. I think if we were to go back a year, the very concept that we would have not only one but multiple vaccines with greater than 90 per cent efficacy and really quite a stellar safety profile would have been unheard of. And now, to have those extremely powerful tools simply not being used because people are not signing up to be vaccinated is particularly frustrating. If we could get that... that 20 per cent of vaccine-hesitant people to... to become vaccinated, we could easily achieve our community-level protection that would stop ease of transmission, be able to protect those who cannot be vaccinated, such as kids or people with immune-compromised conditions, and allow us to stably get back to normal without really the fear of having to take steps backwards.

GM: All right, Professor Jenne, thanks so much for speaking with us.

CJ: You're more than welcome. Take care.

CH: Craig Jenne is an immunologist at the University of Calgary.

[music: ambient]

Scooter Cannonball Race

Guest: Tim Jackson

CH: Driving from one coast to another is a great way to see a country. Lazily noodling along back roads, stopping for lunch at a nice diner, and using bathrooms whenever you want. Tim Jackson had none of those luxuries when he drove across the U.S. Instead, he endured the stress of tearing over and around difficult terrain on a machine he constantly worried would break down. He barely slept. And -- given the tight deadline -- bathroom breaks were a rare indulgence. Mr. Jackson recently finished the exhausting Scooter Cannonball Run -- wherein riders in the U.S. are given just ten days to travel from one coast to the other. On a scooter. We reached Tim Jackson in Atlanta, Georgia.

GM: So, Tim, how are you feeling now that you've successfully driven from Maine to California on a scooter?

TIM JACKSON: I feel very accomplished and fatigued.

GM: Are you sore?

TJ: You know, surprisingly, I'm not sore, physically. Mentally drained, but physically, I'm OK.

GM: So when you started out in Bar Harbour, Maine, you were with 90 riders. Not everyone makes it to the end. So what's the strategy at the beginning of that?

TJ: Just to take one day at a time and... and complete the first segment and prepare yourself for the next one.

GM: What's the biggest challenge?

TJ: The biggest challenge for me was the elements was really a factor in some days. And then just the distance. You reach a point to where your body and mind becomes fatigued. And sitting on top of that scooter, you can get really tired. So at some points, you know, it's just physically staying awake to complete that day's ride.

GM: Right. So how do you... like, do you stop to eat? Do you stop to sleep? Or, you know, I guess people are in a race. So the hope is to try to do as little of that as possible. But how do you manage that?

TJ: Yeah, and we don't... we don't call it a race. It's not necessarily a race. It's a GPS-based event. So we try and maintain the speed limits in these places. As far as eating, I would have a protein bar in the morning and take out and then really I wouldn't stop until the end of the day. So I was really having one meal a day and just kind of crushing protein bars as I rode, so.

GM: Wow! [TJ laughs] So, you know, we mentioned you start with 90, but people start to drop off across the 10 days. What usually is it that --

TJ: Yes!

GM: Makes them tap out?

TJ: So we had a variety of reasons why people stopped. We started with... we had 190 that registered. And they say getting to the start line is the hardest part. So we had 90 that showed up, and we completed with, I believe, 32. And some were just mechanical malfunctions where you couldn't get your machine to continue. Some were injuries. We had some people that got injured.

GM: Is it from crashes or from?

TJ: Yeah, from... from crashes. So in this event, it's a total of 4,526 miles to complete. Three hundred and maybe six of those miles were on dirt roads. And these machines are not necessarily made for, you know, that type of terrain. And you really have to be in the moment the whole time. So just mishaps happen, and you get injured, and you can't continue. And then others, you know, we had a lot of rookies this year, which I was also a rookie. And going into this, you really have no idea how intense this whole thing is going to be. You know, it's not like right down to the grocery store. You are crossing the country on a scooter in the elements. And some people just reach a point where they're like, you know, this is a bit more than I anticipated. And they tap out.

GM: You were one of the first to cross the finish line. [chuckling] What was it like being... just... just making it, let alone being among the first?

TJ: Sheer joy. I mean, sheer joy and such a feeling of accomplishment when you complete this with people that literally become your family. The one thing that was interesting in this is that I was the only person of colour that was participating in this event. And going into this, I had some concern, not a lot, because the scooter culture as a whole is very inclusive. But when you have so many people from so many different parts of the country, you know, there's some concern in a time where things can be very divided amongst us. And it was such a accepting and family atmosphere. People pitched in to help each other. I had a guy that worked on my bike until 1:00 in the morning, one day because I couldn't fix the problem myself. Some people didn't have hotel rooms, and others would... you know, we gave up one of our extra rooms so people would have a place to stay. And that was just an amazing part of this whole event.

GM: What was it like also getting to see the country, to see different parts of the country like that?

TJ: You know, I travel a lot, but most of my travel is international. And when COVID hit, it kind of forced us to kind of change our aspect of travel and travel more in the U.S. And really, this whole route is a part of the country that I've never seen. And it's so beautiful just seeing all the different faces. And we did a lot of national parks, and that was really trying because we were on literally dirt roads, and it was like being out on the plains of the Serengeti, where there's one road in, one road out. No way to detour away from it. And you're in the elements with all these animals and stuff. We came across bison. I don't know if you've ever seen a bison in person, but they are --

DM: Definitely not! [laughing]

TJ: Massive, massive creatures. Where I'm six-foot-five, and the backs of these animals were way above my head. And most people are out there in cars. And you're sitting on a scooter, totally vulnerable.

DM: Wow, what an incredible journey, Tim. Congratulations, and thanks for telling us about it.

TJ: Thank you so much.

CH: Tim Jackson was one of the riders in the Scooter Cannonball Run. We reached him in Atlanta, Georgia.

[music: world music]

Horse Recognition Debate

CH: Now, it's time for the latest on whether horses can see themselves in mirrors.

[music: “Pony” by Ginuwine/R&B]

CH: Now, as we all know, controversy rages over whether horses are capable of passing the mirror self-recognition, or MSR, test. If they can, they may have self-awareness. Which is hard to believe, if you've seen one blithely empty its bowels in front of you. But still, it's possible. The MSR test usually involves putting a mirror in front of an animal. Putting a mark on the animal's face. And if the animal pays special attention to the unusual mark, it suggests it recognizes itself. Well, in March, Italian researchers published a study saying their experiments indicated that horses do recognize themselves in mirrors. You remember that study, of course. It was a huge bombshell. But now, without claiming the horses were high, a brand-new study says those Italian researchers should get off their high horses. The new study totally dismisses that prior study -- citing everything from "incomplete experimental design" to "inappropriate terminology" to "inconsistencies in data presentation and interpretation". And it concludes that those "claims for mirror self-recognition in horses are unfounded." Well, looks like we got ourselves a horse beef. And now everyone's asking those researchers from Italy the same question their research horses may have asked themselves, after looking in a mirror: hey, why the long face?

[music: electronic]

Part 2: San Francisco Bars COVID Rules, Buried Music Archive

San Francisco Bars COVID Rules

Guest: Ben Bleiman

CH: Showing some ID at the door of a bar won't feel unusual for our younger listeners. But now, some San Francisco establishments are asking for a different type of documentation before allowing customers inside. The San Francisco Bar Owner Alliance issued a new policy this week that says if you want to go indoors, you have to show proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test from within 72 hours. Also, this week, California's governor announced that state employees, and some health care workers, would be required to show proof of vaccination -- or get tested once a week. Ben Bleiman founder the Bar Owner Alliance. He's in San Francisco.

GM: Ben, how will getting into one of your bars look different starting tomorrow?

BEN BLEIMAN: Actually, it'll be pretty similar. We're just going to... you know, we have security on busy nights. And they'll be checking IDs, and they'll be checking proof of vaccination at the same time. So, fairly straightforward. If there's no security, the bartender will usually be checking IDs anyway. And they will be checking proof of vaccination as well.

GM: Why did you want to do this policy change? I understand it's actually quite personal to your experience at your bars.

BB: Yeah. So about three weeks ago, we started noticing amongst our group and we have about 500 individual members who are humans, and they represent over 300 bars in the city of San Francisco. We... we… we're very... we have a private Facebook group, and it's very, very active. And we started hearing over and over and over again from bar owners whose staff were coming down with COVID, who are all vaccinated. And this has, you know, huge real-world effects on us. First of all, as a staff, we want them to be safe. And their symptoms weren't hospitalizing, thank God. But they... you know, they lost their taste. They lost their smell. They're out of work for a week. And so, you know, they're losing their livelihood. A lot of them have small children and elderly parents who can't get vaccinated. So they're terrified about, you know, infecting them. And then, you know, we're already having a staffing shortage in San Francisco, and you lose a bunch of staff members who are out for minimum 10 days. You know, it's hard to find staffing, and a lot of us had to shut down. So, you know, one of my bars actually had to shut down last week because my bartender contracted COVID at a different job of his, and he was fully vaccinated. So, you know, it's not hypothetical here. It's hitting us right where it counts. And, you know, we decided that we had to do whatever we could to protect our staff, first and foremost, and their families. I mean, that's our... that's our kind of sacred obligation. And then, of course, our customers and then thirdly, our livelihood. And so we had kind of a robust conversation about it. One thing that came up over and over and over again, which was interesting, in the conversation that I noticed and I felt the same way was just the sheer frustration that the bar owners had with people who could get vaccinated but are not. And, you know, I think rightfully, fairly, you know, they really put those people first and foremost as... as the cause of these current issues that we're having. If these people would just go and get vaccinated, we'd be OK. All of the data points to the incredible efficacy of the vaccination. Ninety-nine per cent of health care professionals and scientific professionals are all recommending it. So the sheer narcissism required to, in the face of that, decide that you somehow are the sole owner of the real truth, and then, you know, not go out and get a vaccination. It just baffles the mind how selfish that is. And we're really frustrated about it. And we said, you know, kind of very serious doubts, like, what if we just say, you know, you can't come in. You can sit outside, but you can't come in. And all of a sudden, I had this just overwhelming response from my membership where everybody's like, yeah, we should do that. And so I said, OK, well, let's do a poll. Over 82 per cent of our membership said they would support making that the official position of our group. And so we did it.

GM: Can I just ask, are staff required to be vaccinated?

BB: Yes.

GM: And so they've taken this --

BB: It's not part of this policy.

GM: Right.

BB: But that's kind of the standard. It's not that big an issue in San Francisco, to be honest. I did a poll months ago -- I think it was in May -- of my members to see what percentage of your staff is vaccinated. And the lowest was 95 per cent.

GM: So what's the reaction been to the policy, not just from bar owners and staff, but from would-be customers?

BB: So it's funny, you know, everybody says, well, you're going to get protests or people are going to be upset. We've literally had none of that. Every single person that's written in or that we've spoken to at our bars has been overwhelmingly supportive of this. And I think it just shows how, you know, it certainly shows how conscientious San Franciscans are. You know, we have a much higher vaccination rate and a much higher trust in crazy things like science than other places do. [GM chuckles] But I also think it shows, you know, how kind of marginalized this small group of selfish people are and how, you know, vaccinated people are starting to come around and saying, wait a second, this isn't just a virus we can't control here. This is actually a virus we can control. But we're not because of the choices of a very small group of selfish individuals, right?

GM: What sort of directives have you given your... your bouncers and security to deal with folks who may inevitably cause a fuss at the door?

BB: Yeah, I mean, look, people causing fuss at bar owners' doors in San Francisco is nothing new, right?

GM: [chuckling] Right.

BB: I mean, this is not a... this not new territory for us. We deal with it every single night. We sell a volatile, controlled substance that makes people drastically alter their behaviour, right? And we have, you know, across the city, we have really well-trained security professionals who are used to dealing with numb nuts on a daily basis, right? So this is really the least of our concerns as a bar community. I imagine, you know, for other businesses, that may be top of mind to them. But for us, it's not that big a deal. We're trying to be really kind to people. We're trying to offer them places they can sit outside if they want to come and try to use the bathroom they're welcome to. They just have to wear a mask. I don't mind if an unvaccinated person wants to sit outdoors. That's totally fine. I just don't want them hanging out indoors, coughing into other people's mouths. That's my concern.

GM: Right. And so I'm just reading here. Seventy-seven per cent of San Francisco residents over 12 have been fully vaccinated. So that remainder, obviously, there's a group of people who are anti-vaxxers, but there are some people who either haven't been able to get a vaccine or can't get a vaccine. So considerations are made for that as well?

BB: Yeah, if you couldn't get a vaccine, you're welcome to bring a 72-hour negative test. Everybody can do that, can bring a 72-hour negative COVID test if they want to... if they want to sit indoors, that's totally fine, too, which is very similar to how the, you know, the arenas and the stadiums work in San Francisco. It's the same rules that they have.

GM: As you say, you know, San Francisco or in California is a place with maybe a different attitude towards COVID and vaccines than maybe other places across the U.S. But are you hopeful, or would you want to see other bar associations across the country take this on?

BB: Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, I... you know, everybody has to make their own decisions and how best to enforce things. But look, we know we're not going to put COVID behind us until these wilfully ignorant folks who can get a vaccine but don't go out and get a vaccine or else we will be dealing with this for years and years and years. And so, you know, we're... we're really hoping that people will go out and get vaccines. That is not why we're doing this, though, right? We're not trying to, you know, change hearts and minds. We're just trying to protect our staff and their families. And, you know, if some hearts and minds are changed because of it. Fantastic.

GM: Ben Bleiman, thanks so much for chatting with us.

BB: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

CH: Ben Bleiman is the founder of the San Francisco Bar Owner Alliance. We reached him in San Francisco.

[music: acoustic guitar]

B.C. Bald Eagle Attack

CH: There are two basic ways of describing a bald eagle attack. One focuses, understandably, on the terror. Bald eagles are natural born killers with huge wings, razor-sharp talons and flesh-ripping beaks. Then there's Steve Archdekin's approach. The Glade, B.C. man was out training for a night swim a few days ago. Then he noticed a bald eagle gave him the old eagle eye.

SOUNDCLIP

STEVE ARCHDEKIN: It looked like it was trying to be sneaky, but it wasn't because I just had a feeling. And then, it just swooped down and, like, curved around the tree and came right at me talons out, wings out. Like, seriously, right at me. And like, its talons were inches above the water, skimming it at times. Like, it was coming at me. So I was just totally blown away by it.

SARAH PENTON: What was going through your mind? Like, you see... it's coming toward you. You say you're awestruck, but you're like, oh, this is going to be bad! Or this is going to hurt! Or, like, what were you thinking?!

SA: No, I was thinking how beautiful it was. [SP chuckles] They're gorgeous creatures.

SP: But it was aiming for your head!

SA: I’ve been interested with bald eagles since I was like four years old. I remember I drew a picture one when I lived in Wasaga Beach. And I've been fascinated with them ever since, so.

SP: I mean, it's one... it's one thing to enjoy it. And a fascinating thing to think it's beautiful. But when you're... you're vulnerable in the water, and they're huge. And it's coming for your head.

SA: I'll go into the bush, and barefoot, pair of shorts, and I will sneak up on bears. Like, I've had encounters. Like, I’m just... I'm just accepting of the natural world. So being deep in the water where I couldn't do anything, it's just my head. I just start yelling and waving my arms. But I was laughing and giggling too because I thought it was awesome. And then, so it was... it wasn't deterring it. It was coming straight at me. And it was like... swerved literally last fraction of a second to where it was so close that I hit it with water. Like, I was bracing for an impact. And then, as soon as it went past me, it was like a jammed on its brakes and did a 180 and came right back at me and was yelling and screaming. And then it just kept dive-bombing me while I'm fighting with this thing, and splashing and yelling at it, and still trying to be conscious, like, OK, I got to still make it to shore because this thing's not going to stop.

SP: Because this eagle didn't just take one swing at you, right?

SA: No, it took many. [ both laughing] It just kept coming back dive-bombing and circling. And I’m wailing and... and flailing and laughing and yelling and like it was chaos, but it was beautiful chaos. I loved it. [SP laughs] And I got out, and I laughed at it, and I cursed out. It yelled at me, and we went our separate ways.

SP: [laughing] How do you think the eagle would tell this story?

SA: Oh, that I'm some bastard swimming in his freaking river. [SP laughs] But whatever, man. No eagle’s going to scare me out of the water.

CH: That was Steve Archdekin of Glade British Columbia, speaking with "Kelowna PM"'s Sarah Penton.

[music: folk]

Buried Music Archive

Guest: Luke Jenkinson

CH: A thousand years from now, a lucky survivor of the apocalypse might stumble on the doomsday vault on an island near the North Pole. And be relieved at the possibility of finding canned food and maybe a soft bed. But they will be disappointed, at first. And then, hopefully, exuberant -- to instead find digital recordings of every kind of music you can imagine. It's called the Global Music Vault, and its creators are putting out a call to the global music world to figure out what exactly should go in it. Luke Jenkinson is the managing director of the Global Music Vault and a managing partner at Elire, which is financing the project. We reached him in Oslo, Norway.

GM: Luke, in the event of an apocalypse. What music would you want to make sure is protected?

LUKE JENKINSON: Oh, wow! That's a really good question. [GM chuckles] And that's a loaded question, too, right? [GM chuckles some more] OK, so I've got to get this right. No, look, I think what we're really concerned... and what I would really like to see in there is this... this sort of cultural heritage, Indigenous music that... that's really in danger of being lost. I mean, that to me, that's music that has shaped us as humans for centuries across all regions of the world. So to me, that's really precious. And that's the one that sort of most in danger of being lost. And then I think, you know, the way where we're sort of offering the Global Music Vault is this is accessible by anyone. So I would hope in the future, once we keep on this journey, that all types of music, all genres, all... all regions across the world can be... can be stored here.

GM: Right, I think in the western part of the world, when we think about, you know, preserving music, we think about the classics. We... we would consider classics like, you know, maybe the Beatles or... or Stevie Wonder. And, you know, there's questions about whether, you know, current pop groups, BTS or, you know, you know, any of these acts that are currently popular, if they... they'll make the cut.

LJ: [chuckling] Yeah, well, I mean, the short answer is absolutely. You know, we want this. You know, when you're preserving music for 1,000-plus years, you want to have this music accessible, and it's all types of music as well. So, you know, in 1,000 years, hopefully, the, you know, the Beatles and the Stevie Wonder's are still influencing the music industry in that time as well. So, yeah, absolutely.

GM: So it is a big endeavour. How do you go about deciding what makes it into this vault, and will you continue adding to it?

LJ: We don't want to decide what goes into the vault. We want to influence, and we want to help. Like we want to help solve this. We want to help celebrate it and... and safeguard it. And, you know, we do want to start with... with Indigenous music, with the cultural heritage type music as well. But it's a callout to the music industry around... around the world, really. And we want to have, you know, committees in regions. We want to work with institutions like the Smithsonians or the National Library's, the National Sound Archives, and then publishers and labels and artists as well. You know, the biggest part here is to try to make a start of this journey and then see where it takes us with the industry on board.

GM: Can you explain a little bit about why it's so important to protect music recordings? I understand that there are some music companies that have lost both in physical and digital forms recordings?

LJ: Yeah, absolutely. So, there is... you know, there's this sort of ethic sort of side of things where you... like, the language, you don't want this to be lost forever. And that's the danger. But then there's also the technical side where you do have archival processes at the moment that… that really isn't... it's not sustainable, and it's... it's really not safe. You know, they're susceptible to... to losing files with mergers. I know this happened in Facebook in 2018. And there was a merger of their... their data sources, and they lost 12 million music files. You know, in 2008, there was Universal files that were... were damaged. There was 500,000 master music files. And the way the archiving works for the music industry at the moment, it's quite standard. And technically, that's very dangerous. Once you have these human errors or... or, God forbid, these sort of natural disasters, then you lose it forever.

GM: Hmm. So explain to me how this vault actually physically works? Where will it be, and how will you secure it? Or is that top secret?

LJ: [laughing] The top-secret one is... is new technology that we're working on at the moment with one of the world's largest companies. So this is a really exciting journey we're going on at the moment. But currently, on that island next to the Global Seed Vault is the Arctic World Archive. And this is a vault that's set about 300, 400 metres into a... into a decommissioned coal mine that's been covered with permafrost. And we... we have access to... to that vault at the moment. And then we're working on our own Global Music Vault with this new technology as well. And that's a bit top secret at the moment. So you'll have to follow the story a bit.

GM: [chuckling] All right. Fair enough. And so, what format will the music be stored on? Will it be a physical... you know, CDs, vinyl, will it be digital? And how will you ensure that those who access it in some post apocalyptic world will be able to actually listen to it?

LJ: The medium that we use at the moment, the Vatican's used, the European space station has used, UNICEF, national libraries around the world have used this. And it's... you know, it's basically on film in a capsule that's been certified to last for a thousand years. So we'll use that same medium, and we are at the moment. But the new technology we're working on is incredible. This will be potentially up to 10,000 years certified. We won't need a vault set in the middle of a mountain, but we still intend to use Svalbard because it's so remote and exotic and very secure as well.

GM: Well, Luke, thanks so much for talking with us. And good luck with your project.

CH: Luke Jenkinson is the managing director of the Global Music Vault. We reached him in Oslo, Norway.

[music: hip-hop beat]

FOA: Bhutan Vaccines

CH: Bhutan has done it again. In one week, it has fully vaccinated 90 per cent of its eligible adult population. UNICEF'S Bhutan representative has called it, "arguably, the fastest vaccination campaign to be executed during a pandemic." It comes after 93 per cent of those eligible got their first shot in less than two weeks, earlier this year. That's when Carol spoke with Dechen Wangmo, the country's health minister, about the rollout.

SOUNDCLIP

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: True. In terms of size, we are fairly a small nation with around 700,000 population. In terms of the reach, you know, it's very diverse. We have many remote, inaccessible communities. So those were, of course, physical challenges. But nevertheless, we also have very good primary health care system, specially for vaccination for our children. So we have fairly a very good network of primary health care workers across the country. And we used for many hard-to-reach places, we used helicopter services to distribute the vaccine, and then we use networks of vehicles not just from Ministry of Health, but from other sectors as well. So this is where when I was talking about solidarity, this is where the solidarity aspect comes in. And the credit goes to his majesty the king, people's love for the king. And for the first time, I think Bhutanese people realised that we as a small nation were under threat and that we must all come together to achieve this goal.

CO: So you mentioned love of king, but also love of public health, right? Because you have people who believe in vaccinations. What would you say to those in countries like mine, Canada, places where people are hesitant? They're saying, "Well, I don't really know if I'm going to get the vaccine." What do you think people in Bhutan would like to tell them about their experience is?

DASHO DECHEN WANGMO: I think for us another element is also trust and faith in the health institution. If you look at our immunisation coverage for children, it's 97 percent. And many people would know the benefit of immunisation because at one point we all have children dying, and then suddenly with immunisation we were not losing young children to preventable diseases. So people have seen through the introduction of many immunisations and many vaccines in the past, the benefit of vaccines. So this has over the years built the trust and confidence of the people in the health system, especially the primary health care system.

CH: From our archives, that was Bhutan's health minister Dechen Wangmo, speaking with Carol in April.

[music: electronic]

SOD: Fiji Rugby Win

CH: When Fiji's rugby sevens men's team won gold this morning, they got emotional. Partly because it was only the country's second gold medal ever. But mainly because the players have effectively been in lockdown for months, unable to see their families. The team first got together back in April for a five-day training camp. Then, the country locked down because of a surge in COVID cases. For the next five months, the team spent every moment together -- training in a makeshift gym, and sleeping in a hostel. So when the music started playing at the medal ceremony, the team burst into song. It's our sound of the day.

[music: “God Bless Fiji” as sung and celebrated by the Fiji men’s sevens rugby team]

CH: Fiji's rugby sevens team singing in celebration, after winning gold at the Olympics. It's our sound of the day.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

July 28, 2021 Episode Transcript

More Stories Like This