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The AIH Transcript for September 17, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Between the lines. After her four year old gets a runny nose, an Ottawa mother tries three days in a row to get him tested for a COVID-19. And she worries that kind of experience will lead others to simply give up.

CH: Up in smoke. A reporter in Brazil describes the deadly toll of fires on wildlife in the world's largest wetlands and the emotional toll of witnessing the scale of the destruction.

CO: The best laid lesson plan. A collapsed roof at a school in northern Manitoba means school's out before it even begins for the community's 900 students.

CH: Namas-stay away. That's the message a group of high profile yogis has for QAnon conspiracy theorists they say have been infiltrating the wellness community.

CO: Rubble without a cause. A Michigan man uncovers prints in a rundown home he purchased that look more like treasurer than trash. Now his wife is poring over a trove of much sought after Inuit art.

CH: And attempting the old quarterback sneak. Critics pile on the University of Georgia after it says it can't host early voting because of the pandemic, but it can host thousands for football games. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that advises against close quarterbacks.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: This yoga instructor is fighting the rise of QAnon in the wellness community

COVID testing lines

Guest: Bashira Kofo

CH: Canadians are lining up to get tested for COVID-19, but their patience is being tested as well. In Edmonton, more testing sites are opening to meet the demand. At test sites in Montreal, patients are lining up hours before they even open. And in Ottawa, it can take families anywhere from six hours to three days to get swabbed. That's what happened to Bashira Kofo. She and her two young boys finally got tested on Wednesday. It was the family's third day in a row visiting a test centre in Ottawa. That's where we reached Ms. Kofo.

CO: Bashira in a few words, how would you describe the experience you and your boys had this week as you tried to get a test for COVID-19?

BASHIRA KOFO: Stressful. Very stressful.

CO: How did it begin? What prompted you to go out and get tested or get your boys tested?

BK: My younger son has a stuffy nose. And the school said stuffy nose they consider one of the symptoms of COVID. That he cannot come to school. And that affected his older brother, he can't come to school either.

CO: Your boys are four years old and seven years old.

BK: Yes.

CO: Who has the sniffly nose?

BK: The four year old.

CO: Because we know kids under 12 they often have runny noses. And if one of them has a runny nose, then they have to get tested?

BK: Yes. And winter is just getting started. And kids are going to have a lot of cold and allergies. So I don't know what the school board is going to do.

CO: Okay, so you had to go and get tested. You headed out on Monday. What was it like when you first arrived at the testing site?

BK: When I went on Monday the line was wrapped around the corner. I mean, I've never seen anything like that. I was like, oh my god. And I saw people in chairs, in a blanket, sitting down on the floor. When I was standing there trying to figure out what I was going to do, they told me that they had reached their mark -- that they stopped taking people at one o'clock. I said, oh okay. So I left. Then I went back the next day at 10:00 and stood in line. By 11:00, they told us that they had reached their marks for the day.

CO: Okay. So let me get this clear: you are going and standing in line with these kids, with the four year old and a seven year old, right?

BK: Yes.

CO: And this is in Ottawa. Well, what was the weather like?

BK: The first day was not so bad. The second day, it was okay. The third day was very cold.

CO: What time are you there on the third day?

BK: 6:45.

CO: And so it's very cold. You're there with the kids. How are they responding to being dragged out every morning to get in line like this?

BK: A lot of explaining. I kept explaining like we have to do this so you can go back to school. He was excited to go back to school, which is like the seven year old, you know, so I guess that gave him the courage to keep going. And I told him the last day where we got up very early,q I told him you have to move really fast otherwise we're going to have to go again the next day and he doesn't want to do that. So they cooperate.

CO: She got them up at 5:30 to go and get into line.

BK: Yes, because I wanted to make sure they have breakfast [laughs] and get everything. Plus it's difficult to get kids ready.

CO: So the third day you were able to get the tests?

BK: Yes. Yes.

CO: Have you got the results?

BK: Yes. The one with the symptoms is negative.

CO: So the kids can go back to school?

BK: Yes. I just called the school. I couldn't get a response. I did email them. I haven't got a response back. I don't know what the procedure is for them to come back.

CO: You work. You've a full time job. How does this affect you if your kid has a runny nose and you have to go through this? What was that like for you to juggle?

BK: I can't walk out onto the kids go get tested, so I was taking off the schedule as well.

CO: What kind of work do you do?

BK: PSW.

CO: You're a personal support worker. So if you can't work, do you get paid if you have to say that you can't come in?

BK: From my employer, no. But because of COVID the government, they said I can report if I'm off from work because of COVID -- it's why I'm home and they will pay you something.

CO: But meanwhile, you've got a job and people are depending on you. So what is going to happen then if this is the new rules? How are people going to manage that?

BK: It's going to be a disaster. I mean, I didn't except they (would) have to take me off the schedule. I have a couple of clients I was scheduled to see the following day. Yeah. It's going to be a lot of challenge.

CO: But you stuck with it. You got the tests done. You followed the rules. What are other people saying? You've told them about your experience? How do they respond to you?

BK: Oh it is now they're not telling the school their kids have runny nose or stuffy nose or anything. They're not going to go through the test.

CO: What they're going to lie to the school that their kids are sick?

BK: They're not going to tell the school. I mean, they will come up with another story.

CO: The whole idea of this is somehow supposed to protect kids. It's collapsing because of the wait lines and the time these people spend in line.

BK: Yes. Yes.

CO: So what would you say to the government? What would you say to the Ontario government or the school board, if you could speak to them about what you went through?

BK: Maybe they can do the testing process a little bit sooner. And plus, they had it before when this whole thing started -- like they don't consider a runny nose as having COVID. You have to have a couple of symptoms before they consider. Maybe they need to go back to that.

CO: The studies say that just a sniffly nose is not alone a reason to get tested. So lots of people were trying to get tested if their kids are going to have to go there and have a cold.

BK: It's going to be interesting because they told me unless I sit home for 14 days -- I was like 14 days, I can't sit at home for 14 days so I have to get him tested. Plus, his older brother -- he felt like he's being punished, he doesn't feel sick and he has to sit at home because his brother is sitting at home.

CO: Bashira I appreciate you telling us the story and I'm sorry you went through all that, but I'm glad you're okay. I'm glad the tests came back negative.

BK: Yes. Thank you so much.

CH: Bashira Kofo and her two sons finally got tested for COVID-19 after three consecutive visits to the same testing site in Ottawa. They got the results back today: negative.

[Music]

QAnon wellness and yoga

Guest: Seane Corn

CH: Inhale. Exhale. Consider the possibility that a secret cabal of Satan-worshiping Democrats and Hollywood elites is running a global child sex trafficking ring while plotting to defeat Donald Trump. That is the kind of patently false conspiracy theory that's been infiltrating online wellness communities. And it originates with the Trump aligned QAnon movement. Seane Corn is a yoga teacher and Instagram influencer who says she started noticing a proliferation of QAnon-inspired posts early on in the pandemic. And this week, she joined forces with a number of fellow yogis to denounce what's been called "conspirtuality." We reached Seane Corn in Los Angeles.

CO: Sean, did you ever think that as a yoga teacher, that you would one day need to spend your time warning people about Donald Trump conspiracy theories?

SEANE CORN: [Chuckles] No actually. I mean, I've been doing this work on the front line in the yoga community for years. I just didn't think that I would be having to talk about things like a cabal of people in the U.S. that are kidnaping children and drinking their blood. I never thought that this would be a conversation I would have to have with my community to say, like, this isn't true.

CO: So just tell us some of the posts you're getting in this wellness space that you work in.

SC: Well, QAnon is very strategic, very well organized. And in the wellness world, they're really playing to empathy. So a perfect example, of course, would be the #saveourchildren and talking about child sex trafficking. And so they're playing on the heartstrings of the community. They're also talking about things that are also of a concern, which is health and wellness. So spreading information that COVID is a lie, that we shouldn't wear masks, that if we take vaccinations we're going to be implanted and controlled. This is the kind of misinformation that is speaking to maybe a part of someone's subconscious that believes it's true. And they invite people into this rabbit hole where they give enough truth, but then keep spreading more and more lies. And they talk about things like forces between good and evil, the great awakening, a paradigm shift. All of this is yoga speak.

CO: So they use of language of healing, of spirituality. They are using language that you would normally use within the community, but then twisting it toward this QAnon agenda, is that right?

SC: Absolutely. And they're also using branding. Like, when you go into Instagram, very often when you feel a wellness practitioner post, the colours might be pastel, the fonts are very specific, there's maybe one pose of someone doing yoga, then the next day it's their food. Next day, it's a lifestyle shock. But on maybe the fourth day, there's going to be a post that says, you know, very prettily 'COVID is a hoax.' But when you look at it from the outside, it could look like any 25 year old, you know, wellness influencer posting about their life. And it's a recruitment technique. And it's working.

CO: What we've heard of the QAnon message is that there is this, as you mentioned, there's this cabal of Satan worshiping pedophiles. And this cabal is plotting against Donald Trump and that somehow he has been appointed secretly to defend the world against these people who eat their victims and extract life extending chemicals from her blood and all this bizarre stuff. Of course you can see through this, you're trying to point it out to others. But do you really see that this message is appealing to or connecting with your community?

SC: To some. For some people, they may have just received messages that are on the periphery, meaning like, you know, that there's something happening around pedophilia that we need to be raising more awareness. Now there's no one who would disagree with that. But they're not understanding that if they go a little bit deeper, that they're going to understand where this messaging is coming from and what they're getting behind and what then they're putting on their feed, inviting people to take a little deeper. So I think there's some people who live on the periphery who don't understand the roots of QAnon. And then there are others who are very radicalized who believe everything that you just said as truth.

CO: And what we do know is that QAnon has been trying to go mainstream and it has been successful. We actually now even see a candidates for Congress made Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is an avowed QAnon supporter, and Donald Trump has called her a future star. But we also know, as you mentioned, that playing to empathy that women are becoming just a disproportionate number of the members of the Q Anon group. So why do you think that's the case?

SC: I've been thinking a lot about this in that in the wellness community there's often a lot of magical thinking, like there's a lot of fear and anxiety and overwhelm. And people are looking to find a way to fix that which scares them. So maybe they'll study, they'll use crystals or mantra or prayer. Not to suggest that those things don't work, but sometimes people orient to them thinking that that is going to be the Band-Aid on the wound. I think that some of the messaging in QAnon is appealing to magical thinking. People are afraid, their instincts are telling them that there's something else going on but I just don't know what it is, I think I'm being lied to -- QAnon is coming in and saying, actually, you are. And again, I think it's strategy. I think some of the folks in QAnon, they are radicalizing people, they know exactly what they're doing. There's a lot of women in this community who are sensitive and empathic. And so you bring in, you know, victimized children and you're going to appeal to that part of them that wants to do something, that wants to engage. And that is why I think they're appealing to the wellness community.

CO: You know that the FBI, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has warned that QAnon poses a potential domestic terror threat. Are you at all afraid because you're so critical of QAnon online?

SC: No. No, not yet. You know, we'll see how this unfolds. But as of right now, I don't feel that, you know. I've been doing this kind of work for a really long time. And I just, you know, would feel worse being silent -- that would make me complicit. And I just can't live with myself in that way. So hopefully I'll remain safe and we'll see what happens.

CO: Seane I appreciate that you would alert people to this, and I appreciate you talking to us. Thank you.

SC: Thank you very much. I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to speak about it.

CH: Seane Corn is a yoga teacher and Instagram influencer based in Los Angeles. That's where we reached her. And for more on this story, you can visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Northern Manitoba school

Guest: Nathan Neckoway

CH: Across Canada most kids are getting back into the routine of school. But students in Tataskweyak Cree Nation in northern Manitoba still haven't returned to the classroom. The community has just one school. And in March, part of the roof collapsed. There's been no in-person learning for the past few months because of the pandemic. But students are supposed to head back this fall and the building still hasn't been repaired. Nathan Neckoway is a counsellor for Tataskweyak Cree Nation. That's where we reached him.

CO: Counsellor Neckoway, when was school supposed to start for kids in your community?

NATHAN NECKOWAY: School for our First Nations was supposed to start after the September long weekend, which is September 8th.

CO: And what are you telling the kids now as to when they can go back to school?

NN: We're basically, you know, informing the parents of the children that our school is currently not yet ready or available due to us finding alternate classroom space.

CO: How are the kids feeling about that?

NN: All in all, our kids have been home all year, all summer. And right now there was an excitement to get back to school. But unfortunately, you know, we're not able to do that. And kids are still, you know, at home doing that, you know, with what they can to keep themselves busy. I've got a five year old grandson that, you know, is enrolling into kindergarten. He's just did nursery and he's just learning and getting into going to school now.

CO: Was he looking forward to going?

NN: Oh, he was. Yeah, for sure. He was excited about, you know, going to the classroom and seeing his friends.

CO: Okay. You know, the reason for this is that it's not COVID related, it's because the roof of the school was destroyed in March. Is that right?

NN: Yeah. Back in March, we had a snowfall that occurred. Then suddenly our school's roof collapse in our administration area of our school. The snow was melting and another snowfall came in and it went through the roof and caused damage.

CO: Was anyone there when it happened?

NN: Yeah, I guess there were some staff members that were actually in the area.

CO: And the kids?

NN: No. It is the administration area and the kids were in the classroom area.

CO: And I guess this is in March, so was this after the pandemic shut down schools?

NN: I guess right in the starting period of COVID when it hit, you know, Manitoba and the alert of state emergency was announced.

CO: Okay. So it hasn't been so much of an issue over these months because of the shutdown. But now kids want to go back. Why hasn't the roof been repaired yet?

NN: You know, for the leadership, you know, within our community, the chief and counsel, we did have talks back with ISC.

CO: ISC is Indigenous Services Canada.

NN: Yeah, correct. Yeah. Just to talk about, you know, getting an insurance person to come in and estimate the damages and see what it'll costs them to come and fix this hole, you know, for this coming September school season. We did have the talks back then and it's like five months from now. But there has been kind of a silence in regards to getting any feedback or information from that department to tell us, you know, were things worse.

CO: So you haven't even heard back from them as to when they're going to do those repairs or finance them?

NN: Well just recently, within a month now that we actually were able to talk to the ISC and some other departments to talk about identifying, you know, what is there and basically getting some some actual feedback about what they can do and give us in regards to getting the fixture. More like a planning -- like them coming and saying, okay we know what the damage are and now we've got to get an estimate, now we've got to identify a company to come and do the work to fix it.

CO: But if you can't get anything done, you've said elsewhere that you might have to announce a state of emergency.

NN: Well, if it has to come to that, we will have to, because right now, like today is September 17th -- with other schools, they began, you know, last week, September 8th. And again, it's been such a long time since that damage occurred. Now, like we put that effort locally to try and identify a solution of fixing that school area.

CO: But what does it that you have to announce a state of emergency in order to get a roof on your school?

NN: You know, I notice a lot of times we have to go that way in order to get that message across to whatever level of government that, you know, has the ability to come and give us the proper funding or identify the proper, you know, solution to try and come and fix our schools.

CO: Are there any temporary classrooms you can set up? Any place that you could go get the kids into class?

NN: Well, that's the thing. We've been meeting our local school programing with the administration staff, with our board members, and their executive to talk about that. And we have been planning that back since June. We have identified today some existing facilities, you know, on our reserve to do that. To us it is quite the challenge because us having to use facilities in our First Nation, it's kind of like interfering with other programs.

CO: What things are competing for that space?

NN: First of all, like we identified our Band hall -- so it's a community gathering place for a lot of the members to come and do some events or things that happen within our community.

CO: And it's for funerals as well, is that right?

NN: Oh, yes. Funeral is another one that's been hitting us lately. And like again, you know, that's a place where people can come in and respect the families.

CO: In the larger picture, your community is also put in a proposal to build two new schools. You have a lot more kids now, don't you?

NN: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Right now, our current school was build back almost 30 years ago. We're starting to see some defaults in our foundation and the actual structure of the building now due to having two fires back a number of years ago.

CO: Well, it sounds like you have a lot of needs and a lot of kids want to go to school. What are you saying to them -- all these kids who want to you want to get back into the classroom and see their friends?

NN: Yeah, for sure. And there's been a lot of effort from our school. They've been working in basically around the clock to try and find spaces and classrooms to accommodate these students. And that's quite a challenge.

CO: Well, I hope you get a roof on your school pretty soon. Mr. Neckoway, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

NN: Yeah, very good. Thank you.

CH: Nathan Neckoway is a counsellor in Tataskweyak Cree First Nation in northern Manitoba.

[Music]

The Main Thing

CH: Kirby Smart, the head coach of the University of Georgia Bulldogs football team has a saying.

KIRBY SMART: [SOUNDCLIP: Keep the main thing, the main thing.]

CH: It's kind of a philosophy on campus. Except it seems like Mr. Smart's school doesn't know how to keep the main thing, the main thing. Or even necessarily what the main thing is. The U.S. presidential election is imminent and ensuring everyone can exercise their right to vote safely during the pandemic is really the main thing. Except yesterday, the University of Georgia revealed that it had selected a different thing as the main thing. In a tweet, UGA said there would be no early voting site on campus due to concerns about long voting lines and insufficient indoor space required to maintain social distancing. And sure, you don't want a whole bunch of people together if you don't have the space. Except that last month the university announced it would be holding college football games in its biggest stadium at reduced capacity, which still means 23,000 fans can be there at once. Some students were surprised by their school's priorities.

VOICE 1: [SOUNDCLIP: Continuing on with the football season with A "reduced capacity" even though it's going to be 20,000 people coming to our campus. So it was very interesting to see how voting was the one topic that they decided to shut down.

VOICE 2: It seems really hypocritical and unfair and kind of speaks to where the university's values and priorities are at this time.]

CH: This was the general consensus, only angrier and multiplied by thousands. So today, in response to the backlash, the University of Georgia changed its mind. In a statement, it said that, of course, the stadium could be used for early voting because as we already knew, because of the football thing, it's plenty big enough to allow distancing. So in football terms, UGA clumsily recovered after a disastrous fumble. But I guess the main thing is that the school figured out what the main thing is.

[Music]

Part 2: Brazil fires animals

Brazil fires animals

Guest: Jake Spring

CH: It's the largest wetland in the world. And huge swaths have been scorched and left barren. This year, more than 15,000 fires have been recorded in Brazil's Pantanal wetlands. It's a significant increase from last year, and it's been deadly for many of the animals that live in the diverse ecosystem. Jake Spring is a Reuters reporter in Brazil. Late last month, he travelled to the Pantanal where he saw the effects the fires are having on wildlife. We reached him in Brasilia.

CO: Jake, I have seen the photos you have posted and they are really deeply disturbing. They're just extraordinary to see. Can you describe some of what you encountered in the area?

JAKE SPRING: Sure. So I was in the Pantanal, the world's largest wetland, for about six days. And we were driving up and down this trans Pantanal highway. There's really only one road. And, you know, just imagine huge areas that are burned and black and with soot. And if you walk on them, you know, your feet sink into it. And so it's just one bumpy brown dirt road through that black earth. The sky is completely gray with smoke and you can't see -- it's very sparse sometimes. And just this red sun.

CO: And a place where there are wetlands it's just a magnet for animals, isn't it? And so what did you see? What effect is it having on those creatures?

JS: You're seeing dead animals everywhere. You know, dead lizards and snakes, dead parts of mammals. Bigger mammals are usually able to run away. But often, you know, they're traversing these huge areas that are burned, burning their paws. There's no water, no food. You know, afterwards, you know, they can starve to death or go thirsty. It's really a grim landscape for them.

CO: You describe jaguars wandering around, starving or going thirsty and paws burnt to the bone, lungs blackened by smoke.

JS: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what they know is going on. But unfortunately, so few of these jaguars can actually be saved. To find a jaguar near this one road through the area that is both alive but hurt enough to be saved and won't run away, you know, it's an almost impossible task. I mean, they were very frustrated with, you know, they acknowledged they were only able to save a tiny fraction of the animals that are affected by the fires.

CO: There's this one description you have of this creature, a caiman, which is, I guess, like an alligator -- and the way it was dead and how it looked in. You described perhaps why it looked that way. Do you want to tell us about that?

JS: Sure. So this was when we were with a couple of people on the animal rescue team and we got out in this area, an area that I later looked up, and it was part of this thousand square kilometre area bigger than New York City that had been burned. And there were these alligators that are, you know, with the fire flashes through and just calcifies their bodies. They're frozen in position as to how they died and preserved. And, you know, as many of these came in, which are cousins of alligators, essentially frozen with their mouths open because like, you know, dogs panting out the window, they open their mouths to try to cool off -- and, of course, you know, that won't save them from a fire. And, you know, they're too slow to outrun the fire. So it's just preserved there in this scream. And, yeah, while we were there, the photographer was photographing that. And I was walking around and again, our feet sinking into this soot with a local guide and a biologist. And, you know, there were dead snakes every few metres. And, you know, they found this one snake that was frozen biting itself. And, you know, I asked, you know, why? Why would it do this? And, you know, the guy just said, you know, pain and despair, there's nothing else it could do. And I checked with the biologists later and she said, yes, it's an involuntary reaction as it was being burned alive most likely.

CO: You wrote on Twitter that it was the most disturbing story you've ever reported on.

JS: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would say it's difficult to really fully internalize what destruction on this scale looks like. You read about it, you hear about it in California and Australia, but really see it and see an area where there are dead animals every few metres and to imagine that this is just as far as you can see, but this area, it goes on for a thousand square kilometres.

CO: We are, of course, reporting on stories of record breaking fires and things never seen before from Siberia to California to Brazil. What are the scientists saying are the reasons why the fires in that region, especially for these wetlands, are so bad this year?

JS: So there's a warming in the north tropical Atlantic, so the area of the Atlantic Ocean that's just above the equator. And that is pulling moisture away from South America and sending it north in the form of stronger hurricanes. So a NASA scientist has looked at this and this is probably cause for the southern Amazon, the Pantanal fires down to Argentina are worse this year because there's just less moisture. And this scientist is afraid that this phenomenon that happens because of this fluctuation in ocean temperature, this long term fluctuation, that this phenomenon could be locked into its warm phase. So it's always a greater risk of fires.

CO: I'm wondering what kind of response that the Pantanal and these fires are getting from Brazil's president, Jair Bolsonaro. We know that he is a climate change denier. He's encouraged deforestation and development in the Amazon. And he has said about the fires in the Pantanal and in the Amazon that the criticisms are disproportionate. What do you say to President Bolsonaro?

JS: You know, I'm just the facts journalist, so I won't take on the president. But he did say that today, that basically it's being blown out of proportion. But, you know, it's indisputable that he's, you know, rolled back environmental enforcement. So, I mean, the facts are undeniable and it's evident in the deforestation and in the fire figures that, you know, what the government says it's doing is not effective for bringing those numbers down.

CO: Jake, as disturbing as this story is, I appreciate that you brought it to our attention and you spoke with us today. Thank you.

JS: Okay. Thanks a lot for having me.

CH: Jake Spring is a Reuters reporter based in Brazil. We reached him in Brasilia.

[Music]

Riley Yesno

CH: He is accused of killing an Indigenous woman in Thunder Bay, Ontario. And now that the charges against him have been downgraded, her family is furious. Barbara Kentner died three years ago after someone threw a trailer hitch at her. It was thrown from a car window and hit her in the stomach. She died from her injuries months later. Brayden Bushby was charged with second degree murder. Now he'll be tried for manslaughter instead. So the Crown will not have to prove he intended to kill Ms. Kentner. That lesser charge prompted Indigenous writer and activist Riley Yesno to start a letter writing campaign in protest. She told CBC Thunder Bay why.

RILEY YESNO: I was outraged. I was really upset. You know, very emotional about it. Maybe I shouldn't have been, but I was also shocked. And I think that this comes, the shock, comes from this place where, you know, in the past five years or so, Canada loves to talk so much about, you know, reconciliation, murdered and missing Indigenous women and girls -- we say names like Colten Boushie, Tina Fontaine, and everybody pretends we've learned something from their death. Also, we as Indigenous people, you know, should be learning lessons. But we've talked so much about it that I probably naively thought that I didn't have to worry that Barbara's family wouldn't get justice, especially with all of the media attention her story got. And so it was like this pretty harsh reality check that no, that is not the case -- no matter how many times the politicians say the word reconciliation that, you know, Indigenous lives has and will continue to be held to of less value than non-indigenous people.

AMY HADLEY: You know, we do have this principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' in in our justice system. How do you weigh your concerns against that?

RILEY YESNO: Yeah, absolutely. I think that in many cases there would probably be a lot more concern. But this one is multifaceted in that, you know, this is a case where there were witnesses and this is a case where, you know, there are mountains of evidence. Barbara herself, of course, lived for months after the incident to be able to tell the story of what happened to her. And in my mind, and I think in a lot of people's minds, it's just outright murder. And so that is one thing. But then the other being that this is a story that's not only just an individual, you know, court case, it's so deeply tied up with these huge legacies of colonialism and racism in the justice system. And White men getting off for killing Indigenous women and getting off easy for killing Indigenous women. And so it's bigger than, you know, just Brayden Bushby [inaudible] Barbara Kentner as well.

CH: Indigenous writer and activist Riley Yesno speaking to CBC host Amy Hadley on Superior Morning in Thunder Bay, Ontario.

[Music]

Inuit art trove

Guest: Tamara Noskov

CH: Tamara Noskov's husband flips houses in Michigan. And earlier this summer, he and his business partner closed on a property in a suburb of Detroit. The house was rundown and filled with stuff, but in among all the trash were some pretty phenomenal treasures. And now Ms. Noskov is working with an art gallery because of Inuit prints her husband found in that dilapidated house. We reached Tamara Noskov in West Bloomfield, Michigan.

CO: Tamara what kind of condition was this house that your husband bought? He bought it as it is with contents. What was it like?

TAMARA NOSKOV: It was in pretty bad condition. The roof did have a leak. So there was some water damage. There was a little bit of mold and it was just very poorly maintained for several years.

CO: And where did he find the prints?

TN: So the prints were in several places around the house, but most of them were actually in the garage under just some garbage and some rotten paper.

CO: How did they look? What impression did they make on your husband when he found them?

TN: He was unsure of what to think about them. Some of them were in plastic from the original gallery that they were sold from. So he did have an inkling that they might be worth something, and because they were in pretty good condition. So he did send the pictures over to me to see what I thought. I told him right away, just make sure you save everything you can.

CO: And what did you find out as to what the artworks were, where they came from?

TN: I did do a little bit of research and I realized that it was Inuit artwork. I did try to familiarize myself with it. I became part of a Facebook group called Inuit Art Enthusiasts, where people share their pieces and you know, their interests. And that was really helpful for me because I got to see all different kinds of sculptures and art pieces. And it really got me going into doing a little more research and finding out more about it.

CO: So you got some help from a gallery to kind of figure out what you had found, what your husband had found, and you had around two dozen images. What did they tell you about the artists who had made these works?

TN: Well, the art gallery that I'm working with is actually owned by a family friend of ours. He did tell me that they are very sought after pieces. Because some of them are slightly damaged we have decided to send them all for conservation before we really decide how much and how to move forward in selling them or anything else that we decide to do with them.

CO: The images I've seen, that have been posted, these are stunningly beautiful prints. And in many cases signed and numbered. I mean, user works of value. And there by some of the most prominent Inuit artists from the region, from what used to be Cape Dorset now, Kinngait. Is that what they've told you you have?

TN: Yes. That is what we have. Yes.

CO: Can you describe some of them for us?

TN: Yes, absolutely. There are so many beautiful pieces and most of them are featuring beautiful nature, they're either featuring women, you know, in natural settings picking plants. There are lots of images of owls. Just lots of beautiful nature. That's what I really took away from it. It is just the love of the natural setting in these beautiful prints.

CO: If I understand correctly you do have, in this group there are works by really one of the most renowned female Inuit artists from that region -- this is Kenojuak Ashevak. And you have, I think, about a half dozen of her prints, her special edition serigraphs that she made. Is that right?

TN: Yes, that's correct.

CO: Can you describe them for us?

TN: Yes. There are a set of five owl pictures that are all made by her. They are beautiful, colourful pictures. They look like there's flowers that are part of the owl itself. And they're all similar, but all have their differences. And they're just a beautiful selection. You know, they're a beautiful set to be hopefully, you know, kept together.

CO: So whoever was purchasing these or collecting these had a pretty good eye for really exquisite art. Do you know anything about whose collection this was?

TN: The man who was the previous owner, he was an elderly man. He did, unfortunately, pass away. He did have several different types of art in his home, but it seemed like his most precious collection was his Inuit art collection. And he did acquire these originally from a gallery that was direct from the artist. So he knew what he was looking for. It definitely was part of his esthetic that he really loved.

CO: And you can trace the provenance, you know, that they came from a gallery where he had purchased them?

TN: Yes, they did. Actually, some of them were still in their sleeves from the gallery and never opened. And they had been in those sleeves since he bought them over 30 years ago.

CO: And what will you do with the prints now?

TN: So we're hoping to display them in the gallery. You know, the gallery that we're working with, it's called Gallery Camille in Detroit. We would love to have them be seen by the public. They've been in the dark and under, you know, horrible conditions for several years and most likely have never been seen since they were purchased. So we would love to have the public be able to see them.

CO: And are paying to sell them or donate them or what?

TN: At this time, we are hoping to sell them just because this is my husband's business. But we are open to any possibility.

CO: Do you have any favourites that you won't part with?

TN: I do have a few. [Chuckles] I do have a few that I really love. And the owls are one of them. But I am trying to, you know, find them, I think, a better home. I think somewhere where they might be, you know, seen by a true lover. I would love for them to be sold to someone in Canada or in the Inuit community. I think that would be wonderful to have them back home where they belong.

CO: Well, her work, Ms. Ashevak's work is quite exquisite. So whatever you do with them someone will be lucky tomorrow. Tamara thanks for speaking with us.

TN: Thank you so much for having me.

CH: Tamara Noskov's husband found Inuit prints of the house he was flipping in a suburb of Detroit. We reached Ms. Noskov in West Bloomfield, Michigan.

[Music]

Wolfgang’s Birthday

[Truck sounds]

CH: That's how it sounded when a parade of garbage trucks rolled down Wolfgang Reader's street in Toronto last week. During the pandemic, the three year old has started waiting on his front porch to catch a glimpse of his neighbourhood truck and crew on their weekly pickup. By now, Wolfgang and the crew are friends. Two of the regular collectors on the block, Drew and DJ, have even started calling themselves the Wolf Pack. So when they found out it was Wolfgang's birthday, they surprised him and showed up with a fleet of their coworkers for fun. Today, Metro Morning host is Ismaila Alfa spoke with Drew and Wolfgang's mother, Julie Wehkamp about the surprise party.

ISMAILA ALFA: Drew, you've really gotten to know Wolfgang over the past few months. How would you describe your relationship with Wolfgang?

DREW: Oh, yeah. The relationship with Wolfgang, it's great. You know, everyone morning me and DJ see him. He's ecstatic, he's happy, you know.

ISMAILA ALFA: Like he's part of the crew.

DREW: Yeah. Yeah. We became part of the Wolfgang. [Laughter]

ISMAILA ALFA: Julia, when you started to plan Wolfgang's birthday and you knew that a traditional party wasn't in the cards, what did you tell him?

JULIA WEHKAMP: Well, yeah, we told him he could never party, but he could invite a friend or two over for cake and immediately, without hesitation, he said Drew and DJ right away. No question. And you know, personally, Marty, my husband, and I, we kind of laughed it off. And his grandma was the one who took it a little bit more seriously. She mentioned it or she wrote in. We didn't hear anything until the day of Wolfie's birthday. And at that point, we just thought a garbage truck was coming by. We had no idea it would be a full-on fiesta. And it was just a lovely surprise, you know, for these gentlemen during these extremely stressful jobs that they're doing during the pandemic to actually take time out of their schedules and hang out with Wolfie and make his day. I mean, it couldn't have been any better. Honestly, what more could he want? You know, these are his heroes coming down the road to him on his birthday. What more could you want? You got to honk the horn, for goodness sake.

ISMAILA ALFA: Oh, wow. Wow, that's exciting.

JULIA WEHKAMP: Yeah. And they came bearing gifts in and howling as the wolf pack. Oh, man. It was amazing. Everybody just had goose bumps. By the time the guys left, there was about 20 neighbours on the street and everybody was just speechless to be honest with you.

ISMAILA ALFA: Julia, is Wolfgang with you right now?

JULIA WEHKAMP: Yes, he is. He's getting a progressively bored [Laughter].

ISMAILA ALFA: Okay. Can I speak with him for a second?

JULIA WEHKAMP: Wolfie they'd like to speak with you. Okay.

WOLFGANG: Thank you for coming to my birthday!

ISMAILA ALFA: Drew, what does that feel like? What does it mean to you to have met this much on his birthday?

DREW: Is special. It's special. It's special. Me and DJ -- it makes us feel good that we could brighten up Wolfgang's day.

CH: Metro Morning host, Ismaila Alfa, speaking with Toronto garbage collector Drew, and Julia Wehkamp and her son Wolfgang about his surprise garbage truck themed birthday party.

[Music]

Part 3: Creativity doesn't fade with age — and Emily Urquhart says her father's career proves it

Feature: Emily Urquhart

Guest: Emily Urquhart

CH: Early on in his career, Tony Urquhart was recognized as one of Canada's leading obstructionists. His work was exhibited all over the country and then beyond at the MoMA in New York, the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, and the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C.. His daughter Emily says that in his younger years, critics referred to him as Boy Wonder. But it's not his younger years she's interested in. In her new book, The Age of Creativity, Emily Urquhart takes a long, hard look at her father's capacity for creativity in the third act of his life. It's an intimate portrait of the artist as an old man, but it's also a wide ranging study of what it means to get older and how we treat people when they do. The Age of Creativity was published this month by House of Anansi Press as part of its Walrus Books collection. And Emily Urquhart joined Carol for a feature interview about the book.

CO: Emily, first of all, welcome to As It Happens.

EMILY URQUHART: Thank you. It's nice to be here.

CO: There is so much you could have said or written about your father -- Tony Urquhart is a Canadian art legend, isn't he? But why did you want to write a portrait of the artist as an old man?

EU: Well, I think it started because people were commenting on how remarkable he was, particularly in his old age. So after he turned 80 and continued to make art, when people would ask me about my dad, they would say, wow oh, he's still making art, he's still being creative, that is remarkable. And for a long time, I thought, well, yeah, I guess that is remarkable. And then something happened to turn that around where I suddenly realized that maybe it's not remarkable. Maybe it's actually normal that you could be creating even some of your best work in your old age. And the idea took hold. And I started with it and I sat down with my dad and he started having some conversations about the topic.

CO: And your exploration, though, begins with your one of your dad's paintings called Earth Returns to Life. What is it about that image that kicked off this journey?

EU: Well, my dad and I visited the AGO together...

CO: The Art Gallery of Ontario.

EU: The Art Gallery of Ontario, yes. And we were visiting actually, after having been to a memorial service for a close family friend. And so I think the end was sort of floating around in the air at that point. We often go to galleries together. This isn't unusual. He took me up to the second floor to a room of postwar art, Canadian art. And a specific room. And he asked me if I could identify any of the works there. And again, that's not unusual because we do that a lot. You know, I have a degree in art history and he'll often see if he can sort of stump me on, you know, being able to identify the paintings in the room. Sometimes I can. Sometimes I can't. This time there were a few I had an idea about, but one in particular that we were standing in front of which he seemed to be gesturing towards. I didn't know. And it turned out that that was the painting Earth Returns to Life. It was his work. He'd done it when he was 24 years old. And I didn't recognize it. And that is unusual for me because I've learned my dad's art like a language.

CO: Right. And this is a painting your dad doesn't particularly like...[Laughter]

EU: [Laughter] No, he was really critical of it. He was saying, oh, well, it's immature .you know, it had this sort of the beginnings of the abstract expressionist works that he would go on to make. But it hadn't quite reached that abstraction yet. And he thought the forms were too formative. And anyhow, he sort of critiqued it as if he was critiquing a young student's painting. And it struck me that he you know, here he is, at the time 82, and he's looking at this younger self in his 20s and he's being quite critical. And I thought that was interesting. But I also thought it was interesting that he was making better work now in his 80s than he was in his 20s. And that seemed to be the opposite of conventional thought.

CO: And this is something that really struck you because at the same time you were seeing a deterioration in your father.

EU: Yes. And it didn't actually become apparent to me that he was facing memory loss issues at that particular moment. But as we began our sort of journey together, where I started to interview him specifically about making art later in life and about his past as well. And it became a little more clear to me that he was facing some memory loss issues. And so that became also a part of what I was looking at in terms of my interviews and the story I wanted to tell.

CO: But what did you discover about your father as an artist, even as he couldn't remember key things and you describe that and it was obviously rattling to you as it would be, what were you seeing about his own creativity?

EU: I think the strongest thing that I noticed about my dad's creativity is that it didn't waver. And so we all have this idea that with aging and the various, you know, disabilities that can come with aging, that, of course, your output, if you're an artist, it's going to diminish or it's going to fail. But his creativity went unwavering. He continued to make art. And sometimes it had to change because his body was changing. But it didn't mean that he was a different person and it didn't mean that he wasn't an artist.

CO: As you document he has a diagnosis of dementia that you and he have to deal with. What effect did that have on his own perception of himself and his abilities?

EU: Interestingly enough, the diagnosis was actually kind of a relief, I think, for him because he was facing memory problems and he wanted to know what was wrong and what was happening. And the thing about my dad is that he's always known his purpose from the very beginning, from when he was a small child really, and continues to know his purpose today -- and that is he gets up in the morning and he makes art. And so once that idea of, you know, dementia okay yes, that's a diagnosis -- he can put that aside and he can just focus on his art. He doesn't have to worry about it anymore. He knows it's happening. What he really cares about is making his next drawing.

CO: And your family didn't want people to know about this diagnosis. Initially, they were worried that people would be dismissive of his art if they knew it. But what you saw of the work is that it actually took on a different meaning -- it became that he wasn't doing the same types of art, especially those huge canvases, but yet the work had a new creativity to it.

EU: Yeah. The work that he does now, it's the same style, but definitely as he has aged even just with strength he can't make the large scale works that he made in the past. So now he stays in one place, it's his drawing room, which is actually literally a drawing room. So the place where he has his pens and pencils and paper, and he draws in there. And in the past, he would have had some kind of studio, which he still does, but he doesn't use it as often. And, you know, his views are shorter -- like most of us in 2020, he wasn't able to leave the house very often. He's looking out his window more than he is -- he's no longer travelling in Europe, which he did for his whole lifetime every spring to draw in European churches and graveyards and other places that inspired him. But he's finding new inspiration in the landscape that is directly outside his window.

CO: And you did some research around as you're struggling with trying to understand your father's dementia. You researched what parts of the brain actually are creative and that it wasn't just your perception or what you could see of your father that seemed that he was creative despite everything else, even though he was forgetting other things, he wasn't forgetting how to draw. What did you learn about the capacity of people with dementia in order to be creative, even with that diagnosis?

EU: Well, I think for somebody like my father, he has been painting and drawing his whole life. And so it's kind of a well-worn pathway, the sort of innate memory that hasn't diminished. He might occasionally forget to maybe set up his drawing station in the morning or go to his drawing room. But once he's there and once he's drawing, he is in his own zone and he doesn't forget how to make art, he doesn't forget how to draw. And he doesn't get any less joy out of it either, which is another amazing part of this diagnosis that I wouldn't have been able to foresee before living through it with him.

CO: But you found out that it is there's no reason why he can't be creative. This is not exceptional -- and your father this is something that we're learning more and more about what parts of the brain actually are affected by dementia and Parkinson's and diseases like that.

EU: Yes, I definitely discovered that a lot of the studies that were done on creativity are quite outdated. They look at creativity as a product as opposed to an act to create -- create is a verb. And it's not something you can quantify. So if an artist is older, their productivity might fall down because they are you know, they're getting older and frailer and they probably won't be necessarily not in all cases but be as productive, make as many paintings at the end of that particular year. But it doesn't mean that they're not continuing to be creative. I think they just looked at creativity in the wrong way, I guess -- and not as an act rather than a product.

CO: If you're just tuning in, we are speaking with Emily Urquhart about her father, Tony Urquhart, and about her new book about him, The Age of Creativity. And you are listening to As It Happens. You review other people and their late life creativity in this book in The Age of Creativity. You look at other examples. I want to ask you about a few of them. And one of them is Willem de Kooning -- that you raise him as an example of what happens in later life to creativity. You want to tell us that story?

EU: So Willem de Kooning is probably at least one of the foremost abstract expressionists out of the U.S.. And in his later years he developed Alzheimer's and he started painting differently because of that. So he might focus on one section of the canvas and forget about the rest. This is in the later stages of his Alzheimer's. And so he had assistants who would turn the canvas for him. But I wondered, you know, what if they just let him create as an artist who happens to have memory loss, who happens to be dealing with Alzheimer's or dementia? Why not just let him do what he was going to do? The other thing that happened with de Kooning is that the later works because they looked different, they were more spare, there was more blank spaces, fewer colours. He sort of started to concentrate on sort of a trio of colours. They were valued as lesser within the art world and within the art market -- and that continues today. And people have been quite cruel. Critics saying, well, who would pay that that sum of money for paintings that are done by an artist clearly working with a one cylinder? You know, really kind of cruel statements.

CO: They actually use that phrase "one cylinder," didn't they?

EU: Yes, they did. They used that exact phrase. It seems that people can't accept art that's done by somebody who happens to have a disability. We're very focused on the status quo. And also it's a bit of ableism and it's also ageism.

CO: And I mean, the ageism and the ableism is not just people who have diagnoses like your father or Willem de Kooning. Some of the other examples that are really striking is you went to actually some people you can't talk to, like Claude Monet -- you wanted to talk to him about this, Water Lilies that he did so late in life. But another really interesting example is Martha Henry, the Stratford actor who in the beginning of her career began playing the role of Miranda in The Tempest -- in Shakespeare's The Tempest. And then in her later life, just recently plays Prospero, a man, in another part of her career. What struck you about the Martha Henry story?

EU: I saw Martha's story as an example of kind of an enormous creative stretching and innovation in the later parts of one's career, because, as you say, not only is she playing two completely opposite parts -- now she's playing a part that originally and traditionally and in most cases is played by a man. And she has to reconfigure and rethink, you know, in some ways how she's addressed Shakespeare her entire career. So speaking with Martha Henry was a real revelation in terms of creative stretching late in life and also in terms of how in your older years, she was 80 at the time, you maybe have to work a little differently and sometimes you have to work harder. You know, she told me an anecdote about how when she played Miranda, she learned the lines in the car on the way to Toronto, and she happened to be driving. [Chuckles] And then when she was learning her lines for Prospero, she went over the play every day just so that she could keep them in her head. So, you know you think about actually she's working harder at 80 than she was in her 20s.

CO: And you never stop learning, do you?

EU: No. Absolutely not. It's a lifelong thing, learning.

CO: Also some of the other people you speak of -- one of them is a friend, Bruce McCall. Maybe people don't know that he's a Canadian. They just know his work on the covers of New Yorker magazines and the writing he has done. He is just an absolutely extraordinary, funny, insightful man. And you went to see him in New York City in a really difficult part of his life. Can you tell us about that?

EU: I went to see Bruce in in New York City and I visited at his apartment. He at the time had Parkinson's for a few years and he had written to me before to let me know that it had progressed quite rapidly in a short period of time, leading up to when I would see him for our meeting. And so he wasn't able to paint anymore. This I discovered after coming to the apartment. He tried to tell me this in a few different ways. And I'm not sure -- I think I was not understanding or maybe it was too hard to hear having, you know, a father of the same age and worrying about my father not being able to paint anymore as well. But in any case, he had to actually demonstrate it for me. He took me into his studio and he showed me the New Yorker cover that he'd been working on. And the image was of a runner. The runner is elderly and the people on the benches are young and they're all looking at their phones. But the old person is the person who is exercising, which is just a great example of his humor. You know, the young people are just scrolling, the elderly person is the one being active. But it was unfinished. The runner's legs were unfinished. He can no longer hold a pencil or a paint brush. And so he had to let it go. He couldn't finish his last cover. And the story could have ended there and been quite somber. But that same day that I met with him, he was in the midst of writing his memoir because he's also a writer and he is able to use the keyboard. And that is not a problem for him. So he just switched gears. You know, I think creative people, they face barriers and they're hard. They're challenging barriers. But a creative person is always going to find a way through and a new way of innovating.

CO: You're listening to As It Happens. And this is a feature conversation with Emily Urquhart about her father, the celebrated Canadian artist Tony Urquhart. And it's about her new book about him called The Age of Creativity. Emily, on that trip when you went to see Bruce McCall, you were with your father. The two of you had gone to New York to see art and you were very worried about him the whole time you were seeing Bruce McCall, that he was back in the hotel room, you didn't know if maybe he wouldn't forget and leave the room and he wouldn't find him. And what was the purpose of that trip? What did it mean to the both of you?

EU: My father and I have been travelling together my entire life, actually from [chuckles] I think even when my mom was pregnant with me, we were travelling in Europe. And my dad and I are good travelling companions. We both really like art and can spend quite a lot of time at an art gallery together where another person might get bored and have to leave. And we like to eat. So we like to look at art and we like to eat. We've travelled together all our lives. And my dad has also travelled solo to look at art and and to make art. But as he got older and particularly as as he was diagnosed with dementia, it became clear that he wasn't going to be making those kind of trips anymore, at least not on his own. And so I had already planned to go to New York City. And beforehand, my dad came to me and he gave me his Museum of Modern Art card to use when I was in New York. But he was very adamant that I give it back to him. He said, you know, just don't lose it, okay? Make sure you give it back to me. And I thought, oh, my God, he thinks he's going back to New York. And I just don't see that happening at this point in his life. And so, of course, in the same moment, I thought, well, I guess he has to come with me. So this trip, I feel like I hate to say it's our last, because that's very sad, but it was definitely one of our best. And I'm so glad we did it.

CO: You went and you saw art. And you went to the Museum of Modern Art, of course a couple of times.

EU: Yes. [Laughs]

CO: But you did go to a very unusual place I want you to tell us about -- you went to a show at something called the Carter Burden Gallery. And what is it about that place that this struck you?

EU: So this is a gallery that only shows work by artists who are over the age of 60. It's the only gallery of its kind and it's necessary because of the ageism in the art industry. So if you are younger than 60, you don't even bother, just wait. You've got to be over 60 to even bring your portfolio to their door. And they've done this so that they can showcase older artists who, you know, maybe they've been working their whole lives and they haven't managed to get a break yet. And now they're older and the doors are closing -- every door is closing now because of the ageism in the art industry. So they came up with this idea to create a gallery where they would just showcase people who were over 60 and working artists.

CO: And what was it like to be at that opening?

EU: The opening was amazing. In some ways, it was surreal. It reminded me of my dad's art openings that I went to since I was a child. You know, filled with lots of people. There's wine, there's lots of talk. But if you looked around that gallery, you would see that the artists -- actually the artists and everyone in the room were of a certain age. They were older. You can see a lot of silver hair and white hair and wrinkles and, you know, but at the same time, everyone was just as effervescent as anyone has ever been at an art opening. The same feeling was in the room. That feeling like this is an event, this is exciting or we're at the possibility of something new happening. Maybe a new dealer is going to see your work or there'll be new opportunities following this, as there usually are with art openings. So it was really interesting because you would maybe assume that a gallery that was specific to people who were of a certain age, I don't know, it might be more subdued at the art opening and that it's just the opposite.

CO: There's a lovely passage about midway through your book that I think gets at what you're saying, and I'm just going to read -- I'm going to quote you back to yourself. You write: "The fundamental misunderstanding of our time, maybe of all time, is that we belong to one age group or another. The idea that seniors or the elderly or old people, however it makes us feel better to call them, are anyone other than we ourselves in a few scant decades is a farce. Barring illness or injury, we will all grow old. There's no us and them. There was only ever an us." What do you think it's going to take for us to start thinking about ourselves that way as an us?

EU: Well, I think that's a hard question. I feel like we're moving towards being a more equitable society and understanding that really beyond age as well, there was only effort in us. So I have hope in that statement. But I also think in terms of the art world, that what we're seeing now is that the largest cohort in the history of the world is growing old. And they are very powerful, the baby boomers, and they are also economically very powerful. So there is a chance that people who are over the age of 65, 70, 80, will start to recognize the work of their peers and put some of that power behind it. And maybe we can start changing our opinions of who is an artist and who isn't regardless of age.

CO: You went to see your father's work involved that he keeps. And he wanted to show you, I guess, kind of an inventory. You had a relative tell you that you had a responsibility to make a record of what he knows about the history of Canadian art of his time. What responsibility do you feel you have to your dad's work and his story?

EU: I feel like my dad is a tether to an earlier time in the history of art in Canada. And so the many times that I sat down with him to speak to him while I was writing the book, of course, we went beyond the parameters of what it was. Well, we almost always went beyond the parameters. And I think that that's really valuable information in terms of my own -- how I feel about my father's legacy and his art. I do feel a certain responsibility and a role certainly to carry that forward, and to be that person along with my siblings for my father. He's concerned about his legacy. He wants to know where his, you know, large paintings are going to end up and what is going to happen to his drawings and where they'll be housed and who will be able to see them. I think it's a little like when your adult children are finally settled, you can feel good. And he feels that way also about his art. And so I hope that I can play a role in kind of assuaging any concerns he might have about his legacy in that I will work for him for the rest of my life. And I think my children in turn, will do the same.

CO: What does he think of your book?

TN: Well, [chuckles] what's funny about that question is, so he read like an early version of the manuscript. And he was visiting me here in December, he spent the day with me. And I gave him the pages and he said he would underline the parts that he liked. And so I left him alone for a few hours. And it was a bit nerve wracking. I should have a photograph of my dad reading my manuscript. [Chuckles] I just let him go through it. And when he gave it back to me, the whole manuscript was underlined. [Laughter] So I don't know. He liked all of it, I guess. But if that's truly how he feels, it's hard to say. He's my dad so he's very supportive of my own art.

CO: I think that many many people will feel the same way who read your book Emily, and share that and probably underline everything as well. It's great to speak with you and to hear about Tony Urquhart from this point of view. I've known of his work and seen him for decades when he was back in the 70s and 60s in London, Ontario, and I followed him. And so to hear the story about his third act is quite wonderful. Thank you for that.

EU: Thank you so much.

CO: Take care.

EU: Thank you. You too.

CH: Emily Urquhart is the author of The Age of Creativity and the daughter of celebrated Canadian painter Tony Urquhart. She spoke with Carol from Kitchener, Ontario. And for more on this story and to see some of Tony Urquhart's work, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Treat

CH: If you work in a bake shop, you are privy to the industry's secret shame. The constant, outrageous squandering of the most precious commodities there are: cake and butter cream. Cake tops ruthlessly cut clean off for aesthetic reasons. Odd trimmings and sweet leftovers of all sorts, abandoned, tossed and trashed every single day. Enter the scrappy folks at Milk and Cookies Bake Shop in Edmonton who figured out how to press those cake scraps into service by pressing them into a box. A genius scheme to ensure those desserts get their just desserts. They gather up those misfit cake hunks, squish them into a box -- hard -- and add sprinkles. They call it cake scraps in a sad box. And people are eating it up. Partly because they donate a dollar from each sale to a local mental health organization, which just makes the whole thing that much sweeter. Now, aesthetically speaking, it is a tad unappetizing, not to mention that it conjures horrific scenarios in which something bad has happened to a cake. But if you close your eyes, the idea of cake scraps in a sad box sings in a sweet, clear voice, a reminder that appearances mean little. Life is about how you treat people and about how people treat treats.

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September 17, 2020 Episode Transcript

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