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The AIH Transcript for April 21, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CO: The husband of a woman shot in Nova Scotia says if the province had used an emergency alert system this weekend, his wife would not have left the house the morning she died.0

CH: Neighbourhood watch. We reached the neighbour of another victim who was calling as many people as she could on Sunday morning, until she learned one of those warnings had come too late.

CO: Arrested developments. Like much of the world, Hong Kong is dealing with COVID-19. But that didn't stop officials from arresting fifteen pro-democracy activists. One of them tells us he thinks he knows why China is acting now.

CH: One step forward. An infectious disease expert says British Columbia's decision to test widely is a hopeful sign, but there's still a long way to go in this pandemic.

CO: Sweet Caroline, we remember the man who challenged the BBC — and changed the face of pop music in the U.K. when he launched the pirate radio station called Radio Caroline.

CH: And... after seven years, Prickles the Sheep comes back round to the farm she'd fled looking for a shearing. And boy, was she round.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday Edition radio that thinks Prickles sounds like a real piece of work.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: NS shooting, NS alerts, East-West testing

NS shooting

Guest: Nick Beaton

CH: Twenty-two people were killed in this weekend's mass shooting in Nova Scotia. That's the updated death toll from the RCMP today, after combing through 16 crime scenes scattered over 100 kilometres. Nova Scotians are still trying to process how and why it happened. Meanwhile, makeshift memorials are being put up all over the province to remember the victims. Kristen Beaton was one of them. The nurse was in her car on Sunday morning when she was killed. We reached her husband, Nick Beaton, in Debert, Nova Scotia.

CO: Nick, first of all, I want to say I'm so sorry for your loss.

NICK BEATON: Thank you.

CO: When your wife set off for work on Sunday morning, did you have any idea that there was this killer out there?

NB: We had no idea. Saturday night, we sat up watching Facebook and messages and stuff about what was going on down in Portapique. And we knew it was going on that night and heard SWAT was getting involved and it went quiet. And we thought it was over. Like the police, you know, they don't release it because they're doing their investigations and whatever. And just figured he was grabbed up or gone or she left the house, you know, without that worry.

CO: Where was she going when she left?

NB: She was going like Debert area. She was going... Yeah, she was working, going to see one of her clients.

CO: When did you learn that there was this menace out there?

NB: By Facebook post. I actually heard someone shared a clip off of a scanner that he was at another person’s house I know out in Glenholme. He was in the yard.

CO: When did you contact Kristen to tell her about this?

NB: She called me. I didn't know at that time that he was out in Glenholme. Even at that time, I didn't know. And then I just, I shared his picture with her, and she read it. And the next text was telling her that he was in Glenholme. She never, ever got to read it. She hung up the phone, and moments later, he came across her.

CO: What were you able to tell Kristen before this happened?

NB: I just told her you know, if there’s someone acting like they’re broke down, or like, you know, avoid them at all costs. If it looks like they're hitchhiking or whatever, or if someone tries to flag you down, go around them, you know?

CO: Nick, did you know at that point that he had been seen wearing a police uniform and driving a police car?

NB: I did not know that he was in a police outfit. I did not know he had a police cruiser, or what looked like a police cruiser until it was too late. If they had shared that Saturday night, you know, there would have been some lives lost. But there's no way there would have been 19. I would have not let my wife leave the dooryard if I had that broadcast come across that he was on the loose, and he was driving. She wouldn’t have went to work. I wouldn't have let it happen. COVID’s taken nine lives, and he took 19 — 20, including my unborn baby.

CO: Kristen was pregnant?

NB: Yes.

CO: Nick, I'm so sorry.

NB: She was very early in it. But she was very, very, extremely proud. And so was I.

CO: Was that something that everyone knew?

NB: No. We didn't even get to share with the family yet. Kristen was on her last shift Sunday, and she was on vacation this week. And we planned on making a shirt that said, “it’s a boy”, and telling the family that way. In a cute little way.

CO: You're talking about your boy, Daxton?

NB: Yes, Daxton. Yeah, we were going to put a shirt on him, and he was going to tell Grammy and Grandpy, and uncles and aunts.

CO: He's three years old?

NB: Yes, three in June.

CO: How's he doing?

NB: He's three, so he has lots of friends and family keeping him busy. And you can tell he's acting out a little bit. He's a really, really, really, really good boy. We are so fortunate that he's just really good. But you can tell he's acting out in different ways I haven't seen before, but that's understandable. He misses his Mummy. And his Mummy was his world.

CO: Can you tell us about Kristen?

NB: Kristen, she was an amazing, amazing, amazing wife. You know, we had a perfect connection, I know people say this stuff, but, I mean, you know, we weren't all huggy, huggy and always hanging off each other. But, you know, we could look at each other and tell each other to, you know, frig off in probably not such a nice word and leave each other alone for five or ten minutes, and it was like nothing even happened. Like we had a very open relationship that way. And we just told each other what we had to say and it was over. An Amazing mum, very passionate about her job, you know, and I was trying to be vocal for her because she was very shy and nervous about losing her job or, you know, ringing the wrong bell in looking for PPE for the frontline workers.

CO: She was a nurse? She was a VON.

NB: She was a VON and a home care nurse.

CO: And you said elsewhere that she was really an amazing mum.

NB: She was an amazing, amazing mom. Daxton, she loved that boy more than I've seen anyone love anything. Like, I love my boy, make no mistakes. He’s my entire world, but it almost only half jealous how she loved him. Like she loved him so much. Like jealous is like I want to love him that much. Just he completed her. He helped fill a void I guess that she had. And, you know, we had a very strong, healthy relationship. We loved each other dearly. But she loved that boy like no tomorrow. [breaking down] And it's very, very hard to say. You know, he's not going to have that anymore.

CO: He has you, Nick.

NB: Oh, yeah. He's going to have me, and I'm staying strong. And I'm trying to be Kristen's voice, trying to get it out there that this broadcast system, you know, her life could've been spared. I don't know how many others? Many others could have been saved, I'm sure of it, if we had this broadcast system.

CO: And you're speaking of how there was a system for warning people about COVID-19.

NB: COVID-19.

CO: And other things, Amber Alerts. And yet, there was no warning, except on Twitter, for the fact that this man was at large.

NB: Yes, exactly. I mean, they can share it on Facebook that there's a liquor store. You know, someone went in, took a couple of points of liquor and they shared that on Facebook. A lot of people use Facebook, right? And those who don't, would alarm the ones that don't. Listen, I seen this on Facebook, stay locked out. You know, stay safe, stay in your basement, or whatever. What have you, right? So if they had to use the alert system, anyone with a cell phone or any kind of device is going to get that.

CO: Nick, you said you want to be Kristen's voice? What do you want the world to know from her and about her?

NB: Every morning and every night, she cried, scared to death to bring COVID home to her son. And people said, well, you know, there's a COVID pay, you can just go off on stress and get the COVID pay. And that wasn't Kristen. You know, her clients, and I hope they’re listening, mean the world to her, and meant the world to her. [Breaking down] Kristen wasn’t, you know, someone to give 80 per cent. She put 110 per cent. When she was in to work, she put 110 per cent into her clients.

CO: Nick, is there a particular memory, is there a particular moment or thought, image, you have of Kristen that you're holding there right now?

NB: All of them. There's not one more than another I guess. And they come and go, and different ones pop in. And we're holding each other's hands there a year ago, in June, when we got married. And I was looking into her eyes, and she was so beautiful. [breaking down] And the wind was blowing. You know, we're doing our thing. I looked at her, and said I love you. And she said I love you. And, you know, it wasn't for anyone else, that was for us. That right now at this moment is what’s standing out. And we're dancing at our wedding. And it was our first song that we’re supposed to dance to together. And Daxton comes up, and stands up with his arms crossed. You know, what are you doing with my Mummy? [slight chuckle] So we picked him up and we danced with him to our first song. So that stuff's getting me through.

CO: Nick, thank you for your generosity, for sharing about Kristen. I hope you have all the support you need as well around you.

NB: Thank you very much. Bye.

CH: That was Nick Beaton. His wife, Kristen, was killed in the town of Debert, Nova Scotia, this weekend.

NS alerts

Guests: Debi Atkinson, Butch Atkinson

CH: We heard Mr. Beaton raise concerns about what more the RCMP could have done to communicate the shooter's risk to the public. And he's not the only one with those concerns. Today, Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil was asked why Canada's National Emergency Alert System wasn't used when the shooter was on the loose?

[sc]

STEPHEN MCNEIL: Oh, well, that is something that all Nova Scotians are wondering. What I can tell you. We looked... I looked internally on the processes that we had taken place, the contact that we'd had. And what was requested of us. EMO, on their own, brought in their alert technicians to make sure that we would be ready to issue an alert. But the reason why the RCMP didn't ask you would be a question for them, and not for us.

[/sc]

CH: Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil, speaking to reporters today. Many of the victims seem to have been shot at random in daylight. Lillian Hyslop was one of them. She was out for her usual morning walk on Sunday along a road in Wentworth, Nova Scotia, when police say the shooter killed her. Debi Atkinson tried to warn Ms. Hyslop, but it was too late. We reached Ms. Atkinson in Wentworth Valley.

CO: Debi, how did you come to know that there was possibly an active shooter in your neighbourhood?

DEBI ATKINSON: Actually, in our neighbourhood, I didn't find out until about ten o'clock in the morning. Another ski cottage person called me up around ten o'clock in the morning and said, Debi, this isn't a joke. Get the word out to everybody that you can to stay at home, don't be out walking, lock your doors. There’s somebody out driving around a look-a-like police car. So I hung up right away and just started calling people.

CO: Sorry, you're the sort of person who actually has a lot of people's phone numbers that you can call?

DA: Oh, for sure. Yes, I am. And I'm good friends with a lot of the people that walk on a regular basis. So I just started calling them.

CO: Did you think that Lillian Hyslop might be out there walking?

DA: I knew that she walked every day, yes. So I called up her mother-in-law because I happen to have Carol's number right there on my phone. And told her to let Lillian know right away that there was somebody that was on a rampage, driving a police car. She said, oh, I'll let her know. Thank you. So then I called the next person.

CO: How was it that she couldn't get the message? What did you learn about the efforts to reach Lillian or to get her home from the walk?

DA: What I understand now is that Carol called up her son, Mike, and said to tell Lillian not to go for a walk. And Mike said that she had already gone. So Mike was gonna go look for her. So he got in the car, and he just drove around the corner, and the police stopped him. And I believe they asked what she was wearing. And he described it, and I think that's where he got the message. I called up Carol to offer my condolences. And I said to her, I said, gosh, Carol, I wish I would have got the alert out to you an hour sooner.

CO: I'm so sorry. And how did you react when you learned that Lillian had been shot?

DA: Everybody's feelings about the whole thing was, why wasn't there an Amber Alert? You know, even after the fact. By the time we actually found out that there was a possibility of this man being in our neighbourhood, he had already passed through our neighbourhood. He was already in Masstown, on his way to Debert. So we were way behind. I think that from the night before, people should have been made aware. And everybody that we've spoken with feel the same way — that we went into this blind. And it was only friends that were sort of the alert.

CO: Debi, the police say they were putting out tweets. They were working on Twitter, trying to reach people that way. Would that have helped you or anybody get the word, by following Twitter?

DA: Actually, out of all our friends, I don't know anybody that follows Twitter, that has a Twitter account. So, no, I would have definitely not followed anything on Twitter.

CO: So you got information from a friend who was tipped off by, I understand, a retired RCMP officer. If you hadn't received that information, could you and the others who got on this network of calling people, you wouldn't have known if you hadn't got that tip?

DA: No. And actually, we were actually already walking outside of our door when I got the text. And then I called her right away. So we were actually on our way to go walking, but we had had our sneakers on already for like an hour-and-a-half. And it was just because we were concerned about her friends and economy that we hadn't been out walking.

CO: If you could speak to the RCMP, what would you want to ask them? What questions would you have for them or the government at this point?

DA: Basically, why Nova Scotians were not given an Amber Alert? I think that when the COVID lockdown for the Easter weekend, I know that when all of a sudden I heard my cell phone make that funny noise, we ran to check what the problem was. Most Nova Scotians would have done the same thing. And for the people that don't have the cell phones or didn't get the alert, everybody would have contacted their friends and neighbours. And they would have warned them. And people would have been locked down in their homes. And as soon as they knew who this person was, if they would have got his name out, anybody that had any close contact with him, I'm sure, would have gone in hiding.

CO: Just a question about Lillian, and what was she like? I've seen a picture of her. She obviously loved to walk. She was out there all the time. What can you tell us about her?

DA: Well, Lillian was like us. She walked every day. She always had a smile every time she met us. She was happy and cheerful and friendly and. Hi, Butch. Hi, Debi. And we could walk all the way down the road and chitchat. And just she was a wonderful person.

CO: Is that your husband in the back, adding his own thoughts there?

DA: I think so, yes.

BUTCH ATKINSON: Yeah.

CO: Is that Butch?

DA: Yes, it is.

CO: Butch, what's what's your memory of Lillian? Can you tell us what you're thinking about today?

BA: Basically, I just, ditto Debbie. Like I said, there's a bunch of us here. We're a little, small community of good people. That's the bottom line, right? My main thoughts, and I think everybody that I know, it’s why didn't we receive an alert?

CO: How much more awful is this when you believe that this might have been preventable?

DA: [deep sigh] It's a tragedy regardless, but I really think that a lot of it could have been prevented. And it was almost like he had an extra bonus by driving a police car that, you know, when anybody sees a police car, you think that there's somebody in there that you can trust. So I think that this man was unbelievably conniving. Everybody seems a little bit angry that we weren't told.

CO: Debi and Bush, I appreciate speaking with you. I'm sorry that you're going through this in your community, but we appreciate what you can tell us about what you saw. Thank you.

DA: Thank you very much.

BA: Thank you.

CO: Bye to you both.

CH: That was Debi Atkinson and her husband, Butch Atkinson, in Wentworth Valley, Nova Scotia. They were neighbours of Lillian Hyslop, who died in the weekend shootings. And you can find more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Sad instrumental]

Promo: Hong Kong arrests

CH: Still to come on the program, an 81-year-old pro-democracy activist in Hong Kong hears a knock on the door. He opens it up to see police, and they have a warrant.

[sc]

MARTIN LEE: Seven of them came into my flat, and I said, can we do it outside my flat because of the coronavirus? And they said, no we've got a search warrant. So I had to let them in. I was expecting it, I was waiting for them to come because China actually has been pursuing a very hardline policy on Hong Kong, but the rest of the world doesn’t seem to know about it.

[/sc]

CH: Martin Lee is a longtime campaigner for democracy in Hong Kong. He says Chinese authorities are taking advantage of a world distracted by the pandemic to settle some old scores. And that includes his arrest, along with the arrests of over a dozen others who took part in a rally last summer. His conversation with Carol is just ahead on As It Happens.

[Music: Bright and jazzy instrumental]

East-West testing

Guest: Peter Phillips

CO: Dr. Phillips, what was your response to Bonnie Henry's announcement that British Columbia is ready to test everyone in the province who has symptoms?

PETER PHILLIPS: I was delighted. I think it's a very positive sign. And testing is so important because it's a cornerstone component of the public health response. And it really clarifies where the disease is in the community. And facilitates contact tracing and the requirement for prompt isolation and quarantine of those who have been exposed to documented cases.

CO: But we have been celebrating British Columbia, or at least acknowledging that it has been doing so much better than other parts of Canada and North America. So why hasn't BSE done this up to now?

PP: Oh, Public Health has been doing that in British Columbia. In fact, going back a number of weeks, before the case numbers had increased substantially. And at a time when community transmission was becoming increasingly evident, BC was testing. In fact, at a higher rate than other provinces. However, when the shift in strategy moved from a containment approach, which is really the case, finding the contact tracing the in the quarantine isolation. When it moved more to a mitigation strategy to try to really shut down the spread in the community rapidly, that brought in all of those disruptive measures that are really under the sort of umbrella of social isolation or social distancing and requiring the closures, schools and businesses. And doing all of those things that the public health department have been communicating so well to British Columbians. And so that has worked very well. It's paid off. And the epidemic curve has been plateauing in the last couple of weeks. And it's put us in a relatively good position here. Certainly the epidemic has been much larger in Ontario and Quebec. And so we're getting to the point where there's discussion about how it may be possible to start — perhaps in the next few weeks, not immediately — to try to relax some of these difficult social distancing measures that have been effective in bringing about a dramatic reduction in transmission in the community.

CO: And does that mean people can go back to work?

PP: Well, that's the sort of thing that's being discussed. And it's for sure a very difficult balance to try to bring people back into the workforce. And so the messaging around that is to really have workplaces adjusted as much as possible to still maintain social distancing and avoid a big rebound second wave of infection that may develop if there are inadequate safeguards in place to avoid that further transmission that might occur when the measures are relaxed, at least in part.

CO: Right. Now, just isn't doing testing, that's not enough, is it? I mean, testing requires that you know who that person you've tested may have been in contact with, right? So how do you go about... That's the next phase, isn't it? If you really want to get people back to work, you can't just test them. You have to know who all say may have infected.

PP: Exactly. So that's where the contact tracing is so important. And people who are quite likely infected need to be identified and put into quarantine, so that they don't infect others when they may still be in the incubation phase of the illness. And perhaps in a day or two or a few days, time may then develop symptoms and clearly turn out to have COVID-19. So that contact tracing, quarantine, isolation, that's a very important part in the exit strategy from this difficult situation of social distancing with all of the measures that have really brought the economy to almost a standstill. We need to get out of that as soon as possible. But at the same time, we can't risk a big second wave of infection. Because still, the vast majority of the population, which has been recently demonstrated by antibody testing studies, have not been infected, only about two to three per cent of populations in various parts of the world, on average, it varies from place to place, have in fact been infected to date. So the notion that herd immunity is going to make it so that we can do a fairly rapid return to work is wishful thinking.

CO: Okay, so BC is where it is. It's at least improving. And it's been a model. Ontario is far behind, isn't it?

PP: For sure. The epidemic there is, hopefully, going to be plateauing in the near future. But the numbers have not been coming down to the point that there's really serious discussion about releasing the restrictions in the next week or so. That's going to be probably further along before that happens.

CO: Dr. Phillips, we'll leave it there. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

PP: Okay. You're welcome.

CH: Peter Phillips is a professor in the Infectious Diseases Division of the University of British Columbia's School of Medicine. He's in Vancouver.

[Music: Slow instrumental]

Part two: HK arrests, Tasmania sheep found

HK arrests

Guest: Martin Lee

CH: In Hong Kong, the coronavirus hasn't just kept people at home. It's also kept them from protesting in the streets. And now it may help put pre-pandemic protesters behind bars. This weekend, police arrested more than a dozen prominent pro-democracy leaders linked to demonstrations held last year in the city. The arrests come as Hong Kong appears to be containing the spread of COVID-19, while other countries find themselves overwhelmed, leading some critics to suggest that China is seizing the opportunity. Martin Lee is a barrister and founder of the pro-democracy Hong Kong Democratic Party. The 81-year-old is one of the people who were arrested on the weekend. We reached Mr. Lee in Hong Kong.

CO: Mr. Lee, first of all, can you just describe the arrest that you had on this weeked? What did they do? What happened?

MARTIN LEE: Well, just they came. Seven of them came into my flat, and I said, can we do it outside my flat, because there’s coronavirus. And they said, no, we've got a search warrant. So I had to let them in, but they were very nice. They allowed their shoes to be sprayed and so on. And then they said, we need to take away your phone, and the shirt that you were wearing on the date of the offence last August. And they got a photo of me wearing this shirt. So I showed it to my wife, and she took it out. And they said, that's fine, we don’t need to search. So they're quite polite.

CO: How long did they hold you all together?

ML: I think altogether, about five-and-a-half hours.

CO: And you've been released now, as the others have been as well?

ML: Oh sure. Yes.

CO: Now, 15 people arrested of the pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong. Most of them have been arrested many times. They've been charged. This is the first time you as the symbol of the movement in many respects, this is the first time you have been charged in one of these arrests. What does that say? Why do you think that's the case?

ML: In fact, I was expecting it. It was waiting for them to come, because China actually has been pursuing a very hardline policy on Hong Kong, but the rest of the world don’t seem to know about it.

CO: Why do you think in the middle of this pandemic, in the middle of this international crisis that originates in China, why do you think that they would bother to crack down on the pro-democracy movement at this particular time? What does the timing say to you?

ML: Well, the timing, I suppose, from their point of view, is a very good one. Because so many countries are now busy fighting viruses, right? What better time can they pick?

CO: And do you think they might have better things to do right now than to be cracking down on the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong?

ML: Yeah. I mean, to them, since you want to do it anyway, why not pick this time rather than wait for later? And there's another reason, the Legislative Council elections are coming up in September. And they are extremely worried that the Democrats may actually capture more seats than their people. In other words, we may have the majority in the Legislative Council, even though our present electoral laws are so one-sided against us. So they are afraid that we might even then win the majority. That's why they're so worried. And they would do everything to deter Hong Kong people from voting. And even if they vote, not supporting us. I mean, that must be part of their plans, too. And this coupled with the pandemic, you know, is good time for them to strike.

CO: The protests in 2019 that these arrests have come from, they were enormous, a huge amount of support in Hong Kong from people. But some of those protests did turn violent. You and your generation have always tried to keep violence out of the pro-democracy movement. How did you feel about seeing the violence in last year's protests?

ML: Well, we didn't agree to use of violence, and they know that. So they say, okay, you continue with your fight for democracy by using peaceful means. But we will use a little force. I mean, that's how they started. And because we could see that after 30 years of your way of getting democracy, you haven't got it. Which is true. So they say so if necessary, we'll use some force. And indeed, they used some force, not much. And that was enough to prevent the pro-Beijing legislators from getting into the Legislative Council to pass that extradition bill into law, all right? But for their blocking the entrances to the Legislative Council building, that bill would have been passed. And then it would have meant that the members of the Gang of Four would be easily arrested in Hong Kong for offences which they say we committed in China. A will be tried in China.

CO: The Chinese government is warning the rest of the world, saying, just keep out of our business here. That this is a Chinese situation that they are dealing with. What message would you send to governments like our own in Canada? How should we respond to the arrests of these people over the weekend?

ML: Well, Canada would say, hey, look here, you offer us to support your one country, two systems. We did that, and we still support it. All right? And that is not your new policy, which is Chinese communist ruling in Hong Kong. And they do it with comprehensive jurisdiction. So, sure, you come and say what the hell is happening? You turn this policy upside down. We can't support you. In fact, we owe the HongKong people a moral obligation to tell you to go back, give them democracy and stop interfering. That's all we need. We are not asking for anything more than what was already promised and written into our basic law, which is a mini-constitution.

CO: Mr. Lee, I appreciate very much speaking with you tonight. We'll be following what happens with you and the others who were arrested. Thank you.

ML: My pleasure.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

ML: Goodnight. Bye-bye.

CH: Martin Lee is a barrister and the founder of the pro-democracy Hong Kong Democratic Party. He's one of 15 activists who were arrested on the weekend. Mr. Lee is in Hong Kong. And you can find more on this story on our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient guitar plucking]

Ontario COVID funerals

CH: One hour. That's how long the province of Ontario says families will have to decide on a funeral services provider, if their loved one dies in a hospital. Long-term care residents' families will have three. It's a hard policy to accept. But Ontario's chief coroner says it's necessary to avoid an even more impossible scenario, should the province's epidemic worsen. Dr. Dirk Huyer spoke with the CBC's Robyn Bresnahan today on Ottawa Morning.

[sc]

DIRK HUYER: What we've done is we recognize there's a potential that we will have a surge in deaths from the pandemic. And we wanted to ensure that the existing process that we have are effective to be able to maintain the current processes and maintain the ability to manage all deceased people in a respectful and dignified way.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: So, I mean, would they need to at that point decide like that the type of funeral, when it would be held, what they would like to have happen with the remains of the deceased?0

DH: No, essentially, the primary thing is to ensure that people are expeditedly transferred into the care of the funeral service sector. And there, there's time to make decisions. There, there’s the ability to work with the funeral service provider to be able to determine what next steps are taken. There are limitations, of course, on funerals, but there still is the ability to make decisions in a less rushed period about burial, cremation, or other potential things that they may wish to do, ceremony after death.

RB: I mean, gracefully, we have not seen hospitals yet being overrun like we have in other countries like Italy and in Spain and New York. Why was this decision made now before, you know, a possible influx of people into hospitals?

DH: Yes. What we do know is that in the long-term care homes, there has been significant loss. So the plan is both for the hospitals and the long-term care homes. And we wanted to ensure that we were ready. We wanted to ensure that we had a plan in place. Because we didn't want to be making changes and bringing things forward during the time of even more crisis. And so it was really to allow the hospitals to develop their strategies and their approaches to be able to meet the potential plan. But the other reason was we wanted to ensure that hospitals and the public and generally everybody was aware that we had a plan. And we had a plan that doesn't contemplate temporary storage, doesn't contemplate increasing morgue capacity. It really focuses on enhancing the capacity and efficiency of the current existing respectful processes that we have. And we wanted people to know that, and also to understand some of the challenges that will come with it, which is the timeframe you've talked about

[/sc].

CH: Dr. Dirk Huyer is the chief coroner of Ontario. He spoke with the CBC's Robyn Bresnahan this morning.

Tasmania sheep found

Guest: Alice Gray

CH: The idea started when Ronan O'Rahilly saw a photo of U.S. President John F. Kennedy's daughter, Caroline. She was playing on the floor of the Oval Office while the president and his staff were busy running the country. The idea of a child disrupting affairs of state appealed to Mr. O'Rahilly. At the time, he was managing rock bands in London — and struggling to get the BBC to give the bands any airplay on the radio. So he decided to create his own pirate station. He acquired an old passenger ferry, anchored it in the North Sea — and Radio Caroline was born. Ronan O'Rahilly died yesterday. He was 79. Soon after it launched in 1964, Radio Caroline found a huge audience that was fed up with the limited range of music on the BBC. Radio Caroline took risks, challenged authority and created a template for today's independent stations — who continue to provide space for under-represented artists and musical genres. In 1967, CBC host Warner Troyer stepped aboard Radio Caroline and spoke with Ronan O'Rahilly, here is part of that conversation.

[sc]

RONAN O’RAHILLY: It represents to people, a large number of its audience, it's more than just audible wallpaper, as it was described by a minister. It represents, I think, some sort of personal contact in their home. I think it's broken through in its actual treatment, its actual programming, and its disc jockeying. And, I think, from this extraordinary austere and rather sort of superior attitude of the BBC. I think people do feel, especially the younger generation, I think they sort of feel it of them, by them, for them.

[Sound: a radio sting plays with a song that proclaims, “We are the pirate station. We love the pirate station.”]

RO: I think the need existed. And I recognized the need. And I saw the trend. And I acted as a sort of catalyst for it.

WARNER TROYER: But a social need or a cultural need is only an indefinable itch until someone does recognize it and act on it.

RO: Well, that's what I did if I did anything. And the reasons. Because it was a total thing. And it happened in all fields of entertainment. In the film world, You had Saturday Night and Sunday Morning, which was the breakthrough there, where you had like real people doing real things. And that was the feeling. No longer were there actors and actresses. You suddenly had real emotion on the screen. Now, all of those areas existed, but you still had anti-BBC, totally impersonal, totally cold and no communication with the people. Now, that's what we filled. You know, the thing that started Caroline, the motivation and energy, wasn't a single thing. It was part of the whole generation did it. Because had they not wanted it, we would not have survived.

[/sc]

CH: From 1967, that was CBC host Warner Troyer speaking with Ronan O'Rahilly. The founder of the pirate station Radio Caroline died yesterday. He was 79.

[Music: Sombre instrumental]

Part three: Georgia restrictions, World Press Photo, FOA: dictionary stories

Georgia restrictions

CH: Health experts are clear that it's no time to relax. But Georgia's governor disagrees, and he's relaxing some coronavirus restrictions in his state. Yesterday, Republican Governor Brian Kamp announced that businesses, including gyms, hair salons, bowling alleys and tattoo parlours would be allowed to reopen their doors this Friday. And that announcement has some local politicians concerned. Kelly Girtz is the mayor of Athens-Clarke County. We reached him in Athens, Georgia.

CO: Mayor Girtz, what was your reaction to the news that Governor Kemp wants to open up your state?

KELLY GIRTZ: Well, I was very surprised in a couple of ways. First, I was surprised because all of the national and the global health experts have been indicating that there's some underlying conditions that have to be true in order for businesses to safely open back up. Namely, there has to be widespread testing available, so we can find out who is potentially infectious. There's to be a contact tracing so that we can make sure we track down those individuals who they've had contact with. And, of course, eventually, we look for some treatment. And we don't have that underlying set of conditions in place here. So I was surprised because of that. And also surprised at the particular businesses that were encouraged to reopen this coming Friday. Massage parlours, hair salons, nail salons, all the kinds of businesses where you come in very close physical proximity with other people.

CO: Now, the governor's statement, press statement, for Georgia says that he is informed, this is a quote, informed by the Coronavirus Task Force and public health officials for Opening Up America Again. That's, I guess, the name of the plan. And that they are, in fact, qualified for this, the reopening, that they have met the criteria. You say they haven't?

KG: Unfortunately, the data that we actually have in front of us counters that argument. You don't see a decline in the number of new case reports in Georgia over these last several days. If anything, you see this sort of up and down dynamic. But simply not the fall in the curve that we need to be able to see before reopening.

CO: Right. And what does that mean? Does the state have to prove that it has had that reduction in order to initiate this policy, or do they just decide for themselves?

KG: You know, that this is clearly a political decision. There are no formal underlying conditions that the governor has to follow in order to make this decision. We as a state are in a formal state of emergency. And so the governor has emergency powers. And so he can certainly make these declarations. And, unfortunately, local governments are pre-empted. So we as a city-county cannot do anything different than this. But I would suggest that the data don't indicate that now is the time to open, particularly those kind of businesses in those kind of ways.

CO: So are the cases, because he says in release as well, according to the Department of Public Health, reports of emergency room visits for flu-like illnesses are declining. The documented COVID-19 cases have flattened. Is that not the case?

KG: No, we don't believe that they have. And we certainly haven't seen the multi-week decline that health experts say is necessary so that we don't see the second spike.

CO: So how does this work then? I mean, if they are going to open these businesses, do you anticipate that people will actually go, that they will have clients?

KG: Well, what's been interesting just in the last day is that many local business owners have contacted me to adamantly indicate that they are not going to reopen on Friday. They fear for the health of their staff, themselves and their client base. You know, these are people who are understandably struggling financially right now. And so I take that concern very seriously. But I think they realize that if they don't have healthy customers, they don't have customers at all.

CO: Now, if someone doesn't go back to work, let’s say there is a business that opens and someone doesn't go, does that mean they could possibly lose their job or have to use up any sick leave they might have?

KG: I'm very concerned about the impact of this order on employees. I've been seeking guidance from the State Department of Labor to understand what the interplay is between a business owner or an employee, more importantly, position not to return to work and their ability to collect unemployment or receive other benefits. Or to just be immune from being fired from a position because they're concerned for their own health.

CO: What are you trying to do from... You say you can't really do anything about it as a municipality. What can you do? What can you do to encourage people to take care of their health? Are you encouraging to ignore this reopening?

KG: What I can do, and what is seemingly successful thus far, is pointing to the data and letting the public broadly understand that they need to continue to, as we said here, shelter in place to keep themselves safe, to keep their loved ones safe and to keep their neighbours safe. And people are responding to that call. And many people have indicated to me they are not going to go back to beginning to go to the gym again. I can tell you it's one of the great joys in my life to get a good workout in in the morning. And I'm just having to do that here at home. And I won't be going to the gym for quite some time.

CO: And on Monday, I understand theatres, private social clubs, dine-in restaurants, all of those can open as of next week.

KG: That's what was indicated in the governor’s speech yesterday. We haven't received anything in print about that. We've received a formal notice that he's published regarding these locations that are going to be able to reopen on Friday. We haven't received the follow up yet, even though that was articulated in his press conference yesterday.

CO: And just finally, since the governor says the shelter in place order doesn't expire until April 30th, does that mean that the customers will actually not be able to visit these businesses?

KG: What's indicated in the text of the order that was released yesterday afternoon is that customers can visit these soon-to-open businesses in a limited capacity with some health measures. But what's very interesting in digging into that text is that it indicates that customers and employees should not have a temperature of 100.6 degrees Fahrenheit or higher. And this was the governor who just a few weeks ago indicated that he now understood that somebody could be asymptomatic and still be a carrier of COVID-19, so these two things don't really fit in the same mental puzzle.

CO: Mayor Girtz, we will be following developments in your state and in your country. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

CO: Thank you.

KG: Thank you.

CH: That was Kelly Girtz, the mayor of Athens-Clarke County in Georgia. We reached him in Athens.

[Music: Jazz]

World Press Photo

Guest: Mark Blinch

CO: At the time, you were very focussed on having to get your picture. And so what you did in this photo is unlike what anybody else did at that moment. And there are lots of images of that moment. But what is it that's different? What is special, in your view, about what you did here in this image.

MB: This image is special to me because, you know, the gravity of the moment, and I just love how you can see everybody's reaction in the picture. To me, it’s just the way it happened. You know, the way the ball bounced off the rim the first time, it really gave a lot of time for tension to build up. So as the ball kept bouncing around, and if you watch the replay, it's not really that long in a moment of time. But in basketball, a second can be a long time. So it just gave a lot of time for all the people to stand up on their toes, and for Kawahi to squat down. And just you could just really see the tension in the photograph. And that's what really makes the picture for me.

CO: I guess there are conventional ways of taking that sports photograph of that moment. I'm sure that how it gets framed is there’s probably ways that are sort of traditional. So what did you do differently in this photo?

MB: Well, conventional training, you know, when shooting basketball, whenever there is a buzzer-beater moment, you're always trying to get the ball, the basket and the player all in the frame. Just so you can see the shot clock above the net as well. Just so you can see that the clock is down to zero. So that is kind of the conventional way of thinking about how to prepare to shoot a buzzer-beater like this. But for me, I had to choose between what lens I wanted to use. So before the play happened, there was a timeout. I have multiple cameras. And I just picked up different lenses and had a quick look through the viewfinder to see what I thought might be best. And I decided to go with a lens a little bit less zoom, so I could see more of the atmosphere. And of course, you know, at the time, I had no idea this was how it was going to end, but the lens choice ended up being a good one.

CO: And what you were able to get with that? If people want to follow along at home, they should pull up this photo and take a look. But all those faces, every single time your eye moves to another part of the picture, you see another person, everyone suspended in a moment, right? Whatever else is in their lives, whatever stuff they're going through, everybody is there for that moment, aren't they?

MB: Yeah. That moment was unbelievable. And yeah, as you look through the faces, there's just lots going on there. You can just see like, oh, what's everybody thinking, right? My favourite face is actually it's hidden on the left side of the frame. You can just see a woman's eye popping through the bars that are holding up to the net. I find that really funny. It's just her eye just pops right out. [both chuckling]

CO: I think I've seen her. And then, of course, everybody else is looking at the ball. But what the ball does, that's the magic, isn't it? I mean, it could have just gone right in. It could have done a lot of things. But it's what it did that got the magic for Kawhi Leonard, and for your photograph.

MB: Yeah, that's right. I always say too, I don't think the picture would exist or the same if the ball just swished and went right through the basket. There would have been no time for all of that tension. There would have been no time for him to squat down. There’d be no time for any of that. I think they would have just went directly into just celebration. And I don't think a picture with, you know, everybody on their toes anticipating what's about to happen, or looking at what's happening, I don't think it would exist if the ball just went straight in.

CO: This is not just... I guess it's luck that you were in the right place at the right time. But I guess it's the combination of everything you have done as a sports photographer. And the same way, I guess, that Kawhi Leonard, everything he's done and trained to do is in that moment. I'm sure you feel that you could have done it differently?

MB: This picture sort of represents a career's worth of lessons and mistakes made, which I guess, yeah, you could parallel that to an athlete, you know, all of that time spent practicing, and you know, all of the mistakes you've made. And everything does come down to a moment. And all the lessons I've learned from all of my colleagues over the years and different mistakes made in thinking about the lens choice and how to stay calm and, you know, even to keep shooting after it hit the rim the first time. All of those things are just, you know, lifelong lessons that I've learned that have all sort of come to this moment that helped me make the picture.

CO: Is there anything you would have done differently?

MB: No [softly chuckling], I don't think so. I mean, you can say, you know, Kawhi Leonard, all that time in the gym he spent, you know, he still could have missed that shot. And it’s the same with me. I just did everything right at that particular moment. Doesn't mean I'll do it right the next moment I see. But for the most part, you know, that's why you become a professional and you practise and you train. And that's why, you know, all of those years and shooting just led to this moment and allowed me to make this. So, no, I definitely wouldn't have done anything different. It just it turned out perfectly.

CO: Mark, big congratulations again, and thank you.

MB: Thank you so much.

CH: Mark Blinch is a sports photographer, whose photo of the Toronto Raptors winning NBA's Eastern Conference Semifinals last year has won the World Press Photo award. We reached him in Toronto.

CH: You may not know Markoosie Patsauq’s name, but there's a good chance you've read his work. "Harpoon of the Hunter" is widely considered to be the first Inuit novel ever written. The coming-of-age story was first published in 1969. It offers an intimate and imaginative look at Inuit life — sometimes from the perspective of a polar bear. The novel has been translated into more than a dozen languages. Mr. Patsauq died in March — just months before "Harpoon of the Hunter" was set to be republished in a new translation. He was 78. Despite the book's enduring success, Markoosie Patsauq rarely stepped into the spotlight. But he remained a leader in his community. He became the first Inuk to get a pilot's license and pressed for years for the government to apologize for the High Arctic relocations, which forcibly removed him from his home as a child. In 1970, CBC reporter Per Holting spoke with Markoosie Patsauq about his writing. Here is part of their conversation. And a sign-of-the-times warning: both men use the term "Eskimo".

[sc]

PER HOLTING: Your new book, “Harpoon of the Hunter” — your first book, and a very delightful one — talks about Eskimo life in the old, old days. Why did you start writing.

MARKOOSIE PATSAUQ: For myself. I only did it to pass the time as a hobby, I guess. And I like the story, because I heard this kind of story from my grandfather. And I've always been fascinated by that kind of story about the old days. So I just sort of start writing it in Eskimo. And then I wasn't even serious about sending it south. But a school teacher happened to see it and suggested I send it south to Ottawa. And it was published in Inuktiuit Magazine, which is for northern people. And a couple months later, I was asked translated into English. And I was told that they were going to be publishing it in English. And here they are, and I’m very happy about the result that so many people seem to like it.

[/sc]

CH: From 1970, that was CBC reporter Per Holting speaking with author Markoosie Patsauq about his book "Harpoon of the Hunter." Mr. Patsauq died last month. He was 78.

[Music: Lullaby]

FOA: dictionary stories

Guest: Jez Burrows

CO: [chuckling] And what sentence was in the dictionary that inspired all of that?

JB: I think I had looked up “father”, which gave me: “Pray for my, father”. And then it was just a case of finding the most banal, sort of interesting sentences that began I, something, aomething. And it just turned into the strangest confessional.

CO: So all of those sentences are from dictionary definitions?

JB: Yes.

CO: [chuckling] All right. It's fascinating. We're going to give people the links they need to go and look at some of these stories, Jez. Thanks for speaking with us.

JB: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye-bye.

[/sc]

CH: From our archives, Carol speaking with Jez Burrows, creator of "Dictionary Stories", on September 9th, 2015.

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April 21, 2020 Episode Transcript

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