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The AIH Transcript for February 25, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: Off the rails. Yesterday's arrests have done little to prevent new blockades from springing up along Canadian railways. And Quebec officials are calling on the federal government to deal with what they say is now a federal problem.

CH: A new season. Hosni Mubarak decades-long rule in Egypt ended during the Arab Spring. And our guest — who took definitive images in Tahrir Square — says it's the fall he'll be remembered for.

CO: Unburdened of care. Authorities in B.C. have seized control of another privately operated seniors' home, where they say conditions weren't up to snuff. We ask the province's Health Minister how he plans to prevent further neglect.

CH: She moves in mysterious ways. Scientists have found new evidence of earthquakes on Mars. Or should I say mars-quakes. And in case that's not otherworldly enough, it appears these quakes can also carry a tune.

CO: When our guest stopped to help a driver stranded on a bridge, he ended up falling off it. Now, the FedEx driver says fate delivered him a miracle — but he'll need another one to pay his medical bills.

CH: And... He's one of the best pitchers in baseball — and a pretty good rodeo rider too. But after months of competing under a false name on horseback, he's going to have a hard time getting the Arizona Diamondbacks ... off his back.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday Edition. Radio that thinks this pitcher better have a thousand words.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Quebec blockades, B.C. care homes FedEx fall

Quebec blockades

Guest: Ian Lafreniere

CH: It's getting hard to keep track of all the blockades. Protesters have stopped traffic on roads and rail lines from British Columbia to Quebec. They're responding to yesterday's arrests at a Mohawk-led rail stoppage near Belleville, Ontario. Now, Quebec's premier is threatening to have police put an end to the blockades there. But the parliamentary assistant to Quebec's public security minister says the real answers are going to have to come from Ottawa. We reached Ian Lafreniere in St-Hubert, Quebec.

CO: Mr Lafreniere, you have got blockades in multiple sites across your province. Who do you hold responsible?

IAN LAFRENIERE: But, first of all, there's a lack of negotiation, and this is obvious for us. You're talking about blockade. We're talking about locations that were blocked off. And this is a result. This is not the problem at base that you know there is a huge problem with negotiating and having a straight conversation with First Nations. And that's the reason why we feel that the federal government should take action in that.

CO And you don't think they are?

IL: I'm not going to say they're not doing it. I'm just saying that right now, at this moment, because we heard a lot of the pressure on our side saying you know what? It should be the province. Province should do that with police service. And, to be honest, a police answer won't be the real answer. That could be an issue right now. You can take those people. You can expel people that are doing a blockade somewhere. But you know what's going to happen? There will be multiple one later on. And believe me, this is what happened. Yes, in Belleville, they’ve been one intervention. But, the day after, we had multiple locations in Quebec. So that's why we say you know what? We should work together. That's for sure. But on the federal side, for sure, there is a problem with First Nations. And which mean there is a need of negotiating.

CO: Okay, but the barricades, one will replace the other because people are reacting to the dismantling of it. The dismantling comes from court orders that are coming from provincial governments. Quebec has issued orders for those blockades to come down. And it’s up to the Quebec police to respond to that. So where does the federal government have a role in that?

IL: But, first of all, if my memory is correct, 20 days ago, that was not a problem in the Quebec province. And believe me, I'm not trying to push the pressure off of me because we're standing there, we're facing reality. But, let's be honest, twenty days ago, something happened on the West Coast. And you know what? What happened I think it's the result of a lack of communication with First Nations. You said that when there is a blockade moved, there is another one because of the intervention of police. To be honest, the reaction that we see now in the field it's people with a lot of frustration from the previous events, which is in, yes, on the West Coast, but generally speaking, the relation between federal and the First Nations. As a provincial elected official, I can try to deal with them. I can try to negotiate with them. But they know as a fact that this is a federal issue. So my power of negotiating is quietly.

CO: But what you're hearing from people at the protests. People are speaking of grievances that go back decades — and sometimes way beyond that. They're speaking of grievances and a sense of betrayal that goes back 150 years…

IL: … No, but you’re right. We're not going to solve that in three days. You’re right about this.

CO: But that's what they're saying. That's what they're saying at the barricades. So how does the federal government deal with the large set of issues that have built up because of neglect over all these years? How can you deal with that while you've got the railway crossings blocked?

IL: You’re right about it. And that’s the reason why we can do two things on the same time. You can remove blockade. That's one thing. But you said that, and I'm sure that everyone listening to you now, they know that when you remove one blockade, they’re just moving from one location to the other. You're talking about the railroad. As a former police officer; I've been a police officer for 26 years. I'm telling you it's won't be possible to put police officers all across Canada beside the railroad track just to make sure that there won't be any blockade. It's not going to happen. So we need to talk, that's right. You're saying it's impossible to solve that in three days. This is a fact also. But, first of all, we got to sit and say you know what? We're ready to talk, to negotiate. But, first of all, let's show some good intention. And I'm not saying it's easy, but the federal side — the federal government — as a rule in that. And I don't accept the fact that there's so far, what we hear is that provincial should manage that and police should manage that. This is not a police problem.

CO: We have heard in Ontario, the Ontario Provincial Police are reluctant to remove — have been reluctant to move in — because they're remembering what happened in Ipperwash, a place where a man was actually killed when police moved in. You had a similar crisis in Oka.

IL: In Oka, yes.

CO: Where a police officer died. As a former policeman yourself, what's your greatest concern with police attempting to act on the blockades that are being set up?

IL: For sure, there is a danger. And yesterday, in Oka, streets were blocked. It took a few hours, so patients paid yesterday. And, for sure, we all remember what happened in the past. Talking about Oka, we remember that. I was in the army when it happened. So I remember Oka. And, me, my biggest concern now it's the us-and-them. And what I mean by that. I hear a lot of people saying you know what? Us, we want this. And them, they want something else. And the thing is it’s dangerous because tomorrow we’ll live all together. We're all together. First Nations and us, we all together, and at the end of it, I'm not saying that it's only the job of the federal side. But, please, it's impossible to mention that provincial can deal with that just by themselves. We get to work together. And we feel so far that we're a bit alone now.

CO: What do you mean you feel a bit alone?

IL: When we're dealing with the problems now, and I hear our prime minister on the media saying that this is a provincial issue, and police should solve that. This is not the kind of message I'm waiting for from my prime minister. I want him to take part of this. And, for sure, we got our jurisdiction and we got our role, but we won't do that just by ourself.

CO: Mr Lafreniere, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

IL: Thank you.

CH: Ian Lafreniere is the parliamentary assistant to Quebec's public security minister. We reached him in St-Hubert, Quebec.

[Music: Industrial]

B.C care homes

Guest: Adrian Dix

CH: A lot of families with members living in care homes worry about how their loved ones are being taken care of. Now, some families in British Columbia might be even more concerned. The provincial government has taken control of a facility in Summerland, because the seniors there were receiving substandard care. The home is part of a for-profit chain called Retirement Concepts. It's owned by a Beijing-based insurance company controlled by the Chinese government. The Summerland home is the fourth facility owned by Retirement Concepts where the province has had to step in, because of neglect of elderly residents. Adrian Dix is British Columbia's health minsiter. We reached him in Victoria.

CO: Mr Dix you have labeled the care provided to seniors by Retirement Concepts as, quote, unacceptable. What is unacceptable about these seniors homes?

ADRIAN DIX: Well, we have a serious process of when it's required to take a seniors home under administration. The law has been in place since 1990. It's only been used seven times in its whole history. And we've used it four times in six months — all of them facilities owned by Retirement Concepts.

CO: And what's wrong? What's going on there?

AD: Well, a significant lack of commitment to care. It should be said that of the seven times in history, six of them have involved Retirement Concepts. So this is a care home provider that did very well; expanded very dramatically under the previous Liberal government. It's the largest care home company providing publicly-funded services in the province. And they expanded very dramatically under the previous government — such that they have 1,640 one long-term care beds in British Columbia — 511 of which are currently under health care authority control. And this process of how we do it is led at the professional level. It's led by chief medical officers of health, who, as a result of inspection reviews, have taken this action. So it was recommended first in Comox, then in the Nanaimo, then in Victoria and yesterday in Penticton, in another health authority.

CO: Right, just tell us a bit about what has been discovered as to the kinds of care or neglect that the seniors in these homes have been getting that has led you to this almost unprecedented move?

AD: Well, a significant lack of legislative standards of care both in terms of staffing, in terms of site management, in terms of care planning and delivery has had a significant impact on seniors. These are entirely the result of inspections. And it's a progressive process. So warnings were issued, and then warnings were issued again and then this action was taken. And obviously, that's informed in part by complaints from residents and their families themselves.

CO: But this company is owned by an insurance company in Beijing, isn't it, which is now owned by the Chinese government. It was formerly known as Anbang. Are you getting any response from them? Are they taking responsibility for this neglectful care?

AD: So in 2016, Retirement Concepts — which had been owned domestically in British Columbia — was sold to Anbang. At that time, That sale was reviewed by the federal government, and they approved that sale. We had expressed some concerns about that at the time. But it should be said that Retirement Concepts, this is for us, first and foremost, a management issue. The previous owners had essentially been in charge of the management as part of their agreement of sale with the holding company that bought Retirement Concepts. So we hold a significant management responsibility. That company, after all, received a huge payment for Retirement Concepts for them. And then obviously, there's responsibility from the parent company. So our expectation this week, now that the fourth time has happened, is that both the holding company and the management company come and see us and explain what they're going to do to correct the situation. Because I think most people would say it's completely unacceptable. Seven times in 30 years, this provision has been invoked — six of them for this company, and four of them in the last six months. And so we're very concerned. The Retirement Concepts is by far our largest private for-profit care provider. And we want to make it very clear yesterday it's not a public-private question. We have public beds that are funded in non-profit and in private providers. But they're not having a problem. It's Retirement Concepts that are having the problem.

CO: I mean, it is a unionized operation. So why can't they get better health care providers? Why can't they meet the levels of staffing that other facilities are meeting?

AD: Well, some very simple reasons. So let me give you an example of Nanaimo Seniors Village — which is one of the cases. The previous government took away rights from health care workers that everyone else had in society. They were allowed to flip contracts — that is to say, to lay everybody off and then rehire them at a lower level of pay — something that they consistently did. Now, the situation has changed. The market has changed. Care aides, for example, are in extraordinary demand. And Retirement Concept has been out of sync. And because they've engaged at some of these locations in when I call contract flipping, in my view, they have lost all of their staff loyalty. If you meet care aides in their care home, they will stay under lots of circumstance because they're so committed to the residents. But when they're treated as they have at times been treated in the past — and we're allowed to be treated under the previous government — this was a bill that was put in the face the labour bill in 2002, and led to the largest layoff of women workers in British Columbia history. There's consequences in the long run. So that's one of the issues they have to address. But it's by far from the only one.

CO: Okay, but you need those beds, don't you? You need this facility. You need it to be functioning. Because seniors need these facilities, so how are you going to address this, and not lose the facilities that they have 20 residents. So how are you going to do that and not lose what they've got?

AD: You bet. One-thousand-six-hundred-and-forty-one beds, well, that's what this process is about. Because we can't sit by and allow seniors care to be below standard in this way. So it used to be that this action used to be that that was the ultimate measure you would bring into force — that the public impact of doing that was very large. Clearly, at least on the first and second and third time we did it this time, it wasn't sufficient. So we'll be calling them in and working through a work plan as to how to make things better. Do we need the beds? You bet we need the beds! Seniors in British Columbia need to have excellent long-term care. And it's our job both on the regulatory side and the provision side to make that happen it makes. It difficult, but we're determined to hold Retirement Concepts accountable ensure that they do better.

CO: We'll leave it there. Minister Dix, thank you.

AD: Thank you very much. Take care.

CH: Adrian Dix is British Columbia's health minister. He was in Victoria. We requested comment from Retirement Concepts. We did not receive a reply by the time we went to air.

[Music: Ambient]

FedEx fall

Guest: Jeremiah Cribb

CH: The sentence "He fell 75 feet" usually ends with "to his death". But in the case of a North Carolina delivery driver, the line ends with "and miraculously survived". We reached Jeremiah Cribb in Kannapolis, North Carolina.

CO: Jeremiah, I know you're out of hospital now, but how is your recovery going?

JEREMIAH CRIBB: It’s going all right. I’m taking one day at a time. I fractured like three ribs, and partial collapsed lung.

CO: Yikes! Can you just take us back to the night, actually, it was about 2:00 in the morning, wasn't it? What made you stop on the Yadkin River Bridge?

JC: It was some people in a car. It was a car that was in the left lane, out in the left lane.

CO: Okay, so it's 2:00 in the morning. This vehicle needs you, you've got out. What did you do in order to try and keep them safe? Because there's other traffic, right?

JC: Yeah.

CO: How did you send the signal out that there was a car in distress?

JC: When I started running over there, I was already calling 9-1-1. And I was making sure they was okay. And I found out they were okay. You know, I started… I turned on my flashlight on my phone, so other traffic could see me. There was a tractor-trailer, he was in the left lane, and I guess he didn’t see it. And I started backing up, and I was telling everybody to get away because I knew he was going to hit the car. And you know I thought I was jumping over and hopping over a median, but when I was telling everybody get out of the way, I was just hopping over a bridge, and I didn’t know, so.

CO: And what did you jump over the bridge to? What was on the other side?

JC: There was nothing on the other side, just 75 feet down.

CO: And then you started to fall 75 feet?

JC: Um-hmm.

CO: Do you remember that moment?

JC: Yeah. I remember hopping over the bridge and everything. I even stood up like I have my legs down, thinking I’m about to land on some grass. That's how confident I was. It was immediate. The only thing I could do was just look up, and I see I was going down. But hey, nothing was on my mind. I didn't have time to think about anything.

CO: When you hit ground, were you conscious?

JC: No, I blacked out for a couple of seconds, and then I was conscious.

CO: And then doing an assessment on how you were.

JC: Yeah, I gave my own assessment on myself, you know, move my toes, my hand, I was doing everything slowly, my arms, my legs. Then I realized I wasn’t paralyzed and anything. And I started looking around for my phone. And I saw that the flashlight was still on, and I felt it and located, and I crawled to my phone. And I was able to get it and get ready to call 9-1-1. But it was already there by the time I did that. So I just decided to call my mom, cause I didn't know anything was wrong with me internally. So if I was dying slowly, and if I would've died out there, I mean, last person, last voice I wanted to hear was my mom's. So I called her.

CO: Well, what did you say to her?

JC: I just told her I jumped off a bridge and everything. And I was just trying to tell her I love her and everything like that. And she was just trying to figure out what was going on. She was saying she loved me too. But, you know, she told me not to really talk much, and just to save my breath and my energy.

CO: Okay. I have so many questions. First of all, what did you land on that was soft enough that it cushioned your blow?

JC: I think it was like mud. It was wet. And it was raining. It was like sand and mud.

CO: Okay, [chuckling] so that's a good thing. And obviously, it saved you from maybe a more serious injury. And back on the bridge, do you know anything about what had happened? Did that car with those people in it, did they get hit by that truck?

JC: I don't think they did. I think they was able to move away. Because everybody was behind me. I was in front of everybody. I tried to move up a little bit.

CO: I understand though this is something that doesn't happen for Canadians, but you had some concerns about going to the hospital because of the cost it was going to be to you, is that right?

JC [chuckle]Yeah, that is definitely right. Once they got me up and everything, they started talking to me. And they’re like Jeremiah, you okay? And they about to roll out. I just looked dead at em. I said is it necessary I got to go to the hospital [laughing]. Cause it's like I know the cost and everything. And me, I work with FedEx, but I work under a contract there. So I'm not entitled to the FedEx benefits, the medicals. Right now, FedEx is not like doing anything for me. Like they're not. I'm not sure. They hasn't reached out. The only thing they reached out to make sure that their trucks and trailers were ok — like they weren’t involved in the accident. I mean, they made sure I was okay. But anything they’re sending me about my medical all that, I'm not getting any of that.

CO: You stopped under a bridge to help people. You didn't have to do that. You wanted to make sure they were okay, and to do what you could. And now you've got this big hospital bill. And I understand you got to GoFundMe page. Is that working?

JC: I mean, it’s working. It’s coming together. I only set it for five-thousand dollars. I know everything is going to be more expensive than that because of the ambulance ride there. I. I even told a lady, I said, is the ambulance ride necessary? She looked at me, she said, are you serious? She was like you just jumped from something that is fatal. Like, you should be dead right now. She was like there is no question about it. You're getting in this ambulance. I didn’t argue with her. I was already in pain. And I just laid on the thing. But my GoFundMe, I mean, I set it for five-thousand. I mean, I don't want people to look at me like a crook something. I just put it for five-thousand, you know? When I get a little well, even though I'm not sure how long I’m gonna be out of work, I might even try to drive like Uber of Lyft. To do something I can do sitting down that not strenuous on my body. You know, to try to come up with some more money, some more income.

CO: You know, anyone listening to this [chuckling] are thinking this is a guy who deserves some help from others. But I'm wondering about you yourself, will you think twice about stopping to help out other people in the future [JC chuckles] after what happened?

JC: No, I was doing something that I love doing, so I mean I’d never think twice about helping somebody. If I even had a last dollar to my name and I saw a homeless person and he was asking for some money, I don't care. He would get my last dollar.

CO: Jeremiah, you're a great guy. And it sounds like you got it from your mom chuckling], who's sounds like a great woman as well.

JC: Yes, Ma’am.

CO: What a family you've got. I'm glad you're okay.

JC: Yes, Ma’am.

CO: And I'm glad you were there for those people. Thanks so much for speaking with us.

JC: Thank you. I really appreciate. God bless you. And you have a wonderful day.

CO: You too.

CH: We reached Jeremiah Cribb in Kannapolis, North Carolina. For more on this story, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Madison Bumgarner

CH: 30-year-old Madison Bumgarner is one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball. In December, he signed a five-year deal with the Arizona Diamondbacks, worth 85-million dollars U.S. When a reporter with the website The Athletic asked him about the deal, Mr. Bumgarner said, "Winning is what the whole decision's based on." Thirty-year-old Mason Saunders is a rodeo competitor. In December, he won just shy of 27-thousand dollars U.S. in a team-roping event in Arizona. And when a reporter with the website The Athletic asked him what his deal was, Mr. Saunders said, "Oh boy. This is ruining my alias." Mason Saunders meant that his alias was "Mason Saunders". His real name is...Madison Bumgarner — which means that a pitcher with a multi-million-dollar arm has been competing in team-roping. A rodeo event that can cause major hand injuries. And, in extreme cases, thumb amputations. Apparently, that was an open secret in the rodeo community. But until The Athletic saw a photo of him after his rodeo win, it was a secret secret to baseball fans. And, apparently, to the Arizona Diamondbacks. When The Athletic contacted the team's GM, he said, "Look, these guys are professional athletes, and they're grown adults. They have lives outside of baseball." Which is very generous of him. But every MLB contract has a clause about players not doing things, quote, "involving substantial risk of personal injury." So if his relationship with the Diamondbacks is going to be close, Madison Bumgarner's relationship with the rodeo is going to have to be arm's length.

[Music: Bright instrumental]

Part two: Mubarak obit, Mars earthquake

Mubarak obit

Guest: Timothy Kaldas

CH: Hosni Mubarak left office in disgrace. But he died with his legacy still being debated. Egypt's long-serving president was ousted from his post in 2011 during the Arab Spring, which saw crowds of Egyptians take to the streets to protest his autocratic rule. Here's then-vice-president Omar Suleiman reading out that resignation in February 2011, followed by reaction from protesters on the ground.

SOUNDCLIP

OMAR SULEIMAN: [Speaking: Arabic]

TRANSLATOR: President Mohammed Hosni Mubarak has decided to waive the office of the president of the republic. Snd instructed the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to run the affairs of the country. May God guide our steps.

[Sound: Much cheering]

REPORTER: It was just an utter scene of an explosion of emotions. That's the best way to describe it — a man who by every measure of the word was considered to impose some of the most draconian measures on society here.

REPORTER: The euphoria here is simply indescribable. The moment the announcement was made, people were crying. Some people fell to their knees. Music, chanting, it's just simply indescribable.

[Sound: Music and chanting]

CH: Hosni Mubarak had once been widely respected in his country. But he wound up in prison, convicted for his part in the killing of dozens of Arab Spring protestors. He was later released — acquitted on appeal. He died in a hospital today, following an operation for a stomach tumour. He was ninety-one. Timothy Kaldas took photographs documenting the Arab Spring protests. He's now a fellow with the Tahrir Institute for Middle East Policy. We reached him in Cairo.

CO: Mr Kaldas, how are people in Egypt responding to the news of Hosni Mubarak's death?

TIMOTHY KALDAS: I think there's a range of responses depending on people's view of his tenure as president. And also, how they compare it with their current circumstances. So some people are happy to see him go. Others viewed his presidency with nostalgia — perhaps not at the time, but in contrast with their current circumstances. And I think for a lot of people, they have a kind of conflicted view about him. He was a huge figure in Egypt for decades. Most Egyptians don't remember a time before he was president. And so he has a complicated place in the country's history.

CO: Just before we go into how he came to be toppled and then charged with crimes. He became the president and after the 1981 assassination of Anwar Sadat. And so how would you describe, how would you characterize the decades of Hosni Mubarak as president of Egypt?

TK: I would say that they were on some level, they were lost decades, under development, poor management, large levels of corruption, a lot of lost opportunities. At the same time, he did successfully rebuild relations with Arab states, who had kicked Egypt out of the Arab League under Sadat when he signed the Camp David Accord with Israel. He managed to stabilize the macroeconomic situation for Egypt, after getting a lot of its debt forgiven for spending in the ‘91 Gulf War. And maintained control over that debt for the remainder of his presidency. But, at the same time, there was a lot of political repression, incidents of torture, the press had a pretty hard lock on it for most of his tenure. He loosened that grip a little bit in the 2000s. But towards the end of his time in office, he amend the constitution to ban part of the opposition, and then rigged the election in 2010 for Parliament quite flagrantly.

CO: From the point of view of the international community, he was regarded as a solid ally of, well, the United States, Canada saw him as such, certainly, in Great Britain — where he was thought of as being a strong supporter of an order and of Israel as well. But for his own people, it was a state of emergency, wasn't it, for decades?

TK: Yeah, he imposed a state of emergency pretty much throughout the entirety of his presidency as an excuse that would allow him and his security apparatus to arrest people as they like, subject them to military trials and detain them without charges. So that was a feature of his presidency throughout. I mean, to be fair, in terms of those allies you're inciting, some of them made use of his repressive apparatus. The United States used Egypt as a rendition site. People here were tortured on behalf of the United States by the Egyptian authorities. So his record on rights actually ingratiates him with some of his Western allies.

CO: We covered, we were in awe of what was going on in 2011 — the extraordinary scenes in Tahrir Square, the Arab Spring, the revolution and that moment when it was announced that he would be, that president Hosni Mubarak was going to give up the presidency. Just an amazing moment. And what was that time like for you? You were you were taking photographs of the Arab Spring. If you can just tell us what the feeling was in Egypt at that moment?

TK: It was euphoric. There was incredible levels of hope. A lot of people believed that dramatic change was on the horizon. And that they would finally have some say government. You saw a dramatic expansion of freedom of speech immediately following his overthrow. You know, I mean people for a moment really believed that things were going to change for the better for them. Unfortunately, eventually, things didn’t work out that way.

CO: But they also got to see the former president wheeled into a courtroom in his hospital bed and put behind a cage to be put on trial, along with his sons. What did that say to Egyptians at that time?

TK: Well, again, that was something that had kind of mixed reactions. So a lot of people were happy to see that. They've been demanding justice during the uprising. And they want to see him put on trial for his crimes. But there were other people who thought it was inappropriate to humiliate a former president in such a fashion. And they were quite taken aback by the proceedings. But, I mean, I think for the most part, Egyptians did want him to be held accountable for what he did. And the court definitely felt pressure to deliver a verdict in that regard, which is why they kind of stumbled into a conviction for the charge of failing to prevent the death of protesters as opposed to him actually being responsible for those deaths.

CO: And meanwhile, what was happening with the triumph of Arab Spring — a brief time of a democratically-elected president, and then a military coup with now former general Abdel Fattah al-Sisi in charge. So how different is Egypt today than it was under Hosni Mubarak?

TK: Today, compared to the end of his rule. It is a more repressive environment, with a more violent security apparatus, a much higher level of poverty and not much prospect for improvement.

CO: How do you think history will view Hosni Mubarak?

TK: I don't think history will pay a lot of attention to Hosni Mubarak. He was a decidedly unremarkable leader. It's not memorable the time that he spent in office. He jokingly referred to as a bureaucratic dictator. I don't think we're going to hear a lot about him in 50 years, to be honest with you. The most interesting thing about Hosni Mubarak is perhaps the manner in which he was overthrown.

CO: During the middle of the height of Arab Spring?

TK: Yes.

CO: Mr Kaldas, I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

TK: My pleasure. Thank you.

CH: Timothy Kaldas is a fellow with the Tahrir Institute for Middle East Policy. He was in Cairo. During President Mubarak's 30-year reign, Nawal El Saadawi faced death threats, imprisonment, and exile. But during the Arab Spring, the women's rights activist — who was then 80 years old — returned to Cairo and joined the protests. As It Happens reached her the day Hosni Mubarak resigned. Here's an excerpt of her chat with Carol, from our archives

SOUNDCLIP

NAWAL EL SAADAWI: Today is historical. In fact, every day in the revolution was historical. But today is the climax of the revolution — the historical day.

CO: You were dancing with the young people. You are almost 80 years old.

NES: Yes, I am 80 years old. But I was reborn, and I felt young — the energy of that evolution. So I was in Tahrir Square from 25 January till today — day and night. So I feel young. I didn't feel I am 80 [soft chuckle]. I came to my home to take a shower, and then go back. So among the young people, I felt young.

CO: Was there ever a moment of danger for you? Did you have any problems?

NES: Oh, many, many, many — especially during Wednesday the 2nd February. I was in the middle of Tahrir Square when the horsemen and the men on camels attacked the square with the order of Mubarak, of course, and his men. And I was about to be knocked by a horse. When the horse came in front of me, the young men carried me away because I cannot run like them.

CO: You have been fighting for years in Egypt for women's rights, for changes to the system for human rights and for health — access to health. Do you think things will be different now that Mr Mubarak is gone?

NES: Yes, of course. Now, we have a historic revolution. And it's a secular revolution. It is not Muslim Brother revolution. The Muslim Brothers are minorities. It is that evolution of millions — 86-millions of Egyptians, ordinary people, mothers, young men, and women, students, professionals, peasants, working class. So it was the revolution of the Egyptian people. In fact, I feel that this is a dream, my childhood dream came true. I am sure that this revolution will continue. Nobody can abort it. So that now that revolution is above the military — the power of people above everything.

CO: Where were you when the announcement was made?

NES: In the streets, dancing [hearty laugh]. We were dancing everywhere.

CO: And what was that moment like for you?

NES: It's an inspiration. I had an infusion. I felt that he will step down, and he stepped out because he could not continue.

CO: Would you consider running for president?

NES: No, no, no, no, no. And when I ran in 2005, I did it just to challenge Mubarak as symbolic. Because I was running after him. And his police was running after me. So I exposed the false democracy.

CO: Dr El Saadawi, I wish you success. And I it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

NES: Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

CO: Goodnight.

CH: That was Egyptian feminist Nawal El Saadawi speaking to Carol, in February 2011 — on the day Hosni Mubarak resigned as Egypt's President. The longtime leader died today. He was 91 years old.

[Music: Ambient]

Mars earthquakes

Guest: Bruce Banerdt

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A creepy pulsating]

CH: That was not a technical malfunction on our part, in case you were wondering. It's kind of a technical malfunction on Mars's part. It's the sound of a Marsquake — a tremor on the red planet. This week, NASA scientists said their InSight probe detected hundreds of tremors on Mars since 2018. Bruce Banerdt is the lead investigator on NASA's InSight project. We reached him in Nice, France.

CO: Mr Banerdt, what was it like for you and NASA's InSight probe started sending back information about tremors on Mars?

BRUCE BANERDT: Well, it was actually a big relief. Because we had put our seismometer down on the surface of the planet and started sending down the data. But it was about three months before we got our first quake signal. And that was not completely out of line with our expectations, but we were starting to get a little bit worried. So when we started actually getting those quake signals, we breathed a big sigh of relief because that meant that the ten or even 20 years of preparation we put into it was actually paying off for us.

CO Did you know that there were these Marsquakes?

BB: We did not know for sure. There had never been a seismometer as sensitive as ours on the surface of Mars. There was one seismometers sent back in the 1970s, but it was on the Viking spacecraft, bolted to the deck. And so mostly all it saw was the wind blowing the spacecraft around. So we only inferred from our theoretical calculations that there should be Marsquakes. But I was pretty confident, but my confidence was getting a little shaky there at the end.

CO: Okay, now speaking of shaky, how many quakes are you getting now on Mars?

BB: We're actually getting a lot of quakes now. We're seeing probably one or two quakes per day at this point. Well, we call them events because we're not certain that all of these are actually Marsquakes from the inside of the planet. But we have 450 events — of which, probably something around a hundred of them we're pretty sure are actual quakes. The others are still somewhat questionable.

CO: And if you could compare it to quakes on Earth, where would they be? What kind of range are we talking about, intensity?

BB: These are very small quakes. The biggest ones we've seen so far are probably approaching a magnitude four. And I don't know if you've ever felt an earthquake before. But a magnitude four is definitely enough that you would notice, but not really strong enough to really do much damage — especially since we believe these quakes are originating fairly deep in the crust. On the Earth, if they're very shallow, maybe a magnitude four could knock over a few things on your shelves. But that's about as heavy as it gets. And most of them are so small that you would have to have some pretty sensitive instrumentation even to know that it even happened.

CO: What do you know about what's causing them?

BB: Well, we just have to infer at this point. We're still fairly early in the whole process of understanding you know the way quakes work on this planet. But our theory is that as the planet cools over billions of years, it shrinks a little bit. And as it shrinks, you know, the crust has to sort of crinkle up a little bit to sort of maintain itself on the outside of that sphere. And so what we call a thermoelastic cooling effect is what kind of drives the main stress behind the quakes.

CO: How long are you expecting to have this this equipment on Mars in order to send this message? How long is this study?

BB: Well, the mission was planned for one Mars year — which is almost exactly two Earth years. So we're right about halfway through… a little bit more than halfway through our prime mission right now. And that would end sometime next November. But there's nothing on the spacecraft itself that will run out. We don't have fuel or any kind of thing that that we use up. It's a solar-powered spacecraft. And so as long we're getting solar power, we should be able to operate. And we're actually right now preparing a proposal to NASA to ask them to give us funding to pay the operators to run this mission for another two years after this.

CO: Wow! And you won't be troubled by bad weather on Mars?

BB: Well, weather is always an issue — especially the dust storms. Since we're solar-powered, first of all, the dust storms will blot out the sun and drop our power. We have pretty large solar panels so that we can survive most intense dust storms on Mars without any problem. But also, those dust storms allow dust to land on the solar panels. And eventually, after several years, they'll probably get covered with dust to the point where they can't generate power anymore. Unless we get something to blow the dust off [CO laughs], which actually seems to occur pretty regularly in other places on Mars. So we have our fingers crossed on that one. We haven't seen it yet, but we're actually just getting to the windiest part of the year.

CO: And you can't rely on a good rainstorm in order to clean those solar panels

BB: Definitely not. Definitely not.

CO: Does Mars have seasons?

BB: Oh yes, Mars has seasons just like the Earth. We have seasons about the way Hawaii has seasons, you know? It's pretty much, for Mars, it's warm all year round. And by warm, I mean it only gets down to minus-90 or minus-100 centigrade at night.

CO: [laughing] What's it like for you? When getting information from Mars, it must be just fascinating and so interesting to every day be wondering what information you're going to get from that planet?

BB: Oh, it's an amazing situation to be in. I mean, I've worked towards getting this mission supported and flown by NASA for almost 30 years — most of my professional career. And to actually being in a situation where you know I wake up every morning and I check my email to see you know what the latest shaking that's happened on a planet which is you know a-hundred-million kilometers away. It's hard to even grasp it sometimes. And, you know, every once in a while, I start to get a little bit complacent. And then I just get shocked back and do just how incredibly amazing this whole thing is. CO: Lucky you.

BB: Oh, I'm definitely living the dream. This is something I've dreamed about you know ever since I was a child.

CO: Mr Banerdt, I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

BB: Well, it's been my pleasure. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

CH: Bruce Banerdt is the lead investigator on NASA's Insight project. We reached him in Nice, France.

[Music: Ambient]

Beyak apology

CH: Lynn Beyak has spent months, even years, insisting she did nothing wrong. But today, the Ontario Senator paid her colleagues — and Indigenous peoples — an apology. The Senator once said she thought residential schools did some good for Indigenous children. She then went on to post letters of support on her Senate website, from Canadians who used racist language to describe First Nations people. Now, Senator Beyak says she was wrong to post the letters in the first place. Her words come just days before the Senate votes on whether she should be temporarily suspended, yet again, for failing to complete mandatory anti-racism training. She now says she's prepared to do everything that's required of her. Here's what Senator Lynn Beyak's apology sounded like.

SOUNDCLIP

LYNN BEYAK: After a deep and careful reflection, I have come to the view that the posting of offensive and hurtful Letters to a Senate public website was wrong, and ill-considered. And my insistence on leaving them up was also wrong. Because of my belief in free speech, my initial instincts were to leave the letters on the website. After long and careful consideration, I now regret not insisting on their removal. They were disrespectful, divisive and unacceptable. While my intent was never to hurt anyone, I see now that my actions did not have their desired effect — which was to promote open and constructive dialogue. Regretfully, my actions were unhelpful to the national conversation on this issue. [deep sigh] I want to apologize to Indigenous peoples, to the Senate, and to my fellow senators and to the Canadians we all represent for any hurt I have caused. I agree with the recommendations of the committee, and I am eager to complete the education and sensitivity training that has been prescribed. We are never too old to learn and to grow.

CH: Senator Lynn Beyak, delivering an apology to her Senate colleagues today.

[Music: Ambient]

Part two: Hong Kong bookseller, Indian citizenship riots, wrong house destroyed

Hong Kong bookseller

Guest: Teng Biao

CH: Amnesty International calls the verdict "deplorable", and says the charges are "completely unsubstantiated". And Sweden is calling on China to release Gui Minhai. But China isn't listening. Mr Gui is a Chinese-born Swedish citizen. He's one of five booksellers who disappeared in Hong Kong in 2015. Ever since, he's been in and out of Chinese detention. Now, he's in, and he'll be in for a long time: a Chinese court has sentenced him to ten years in jail for "illegally providing intelligence overseas". Teng Biao is a human rights activist and lawyer who fled China after being detained. We reached him in Princeton, New Jersey.

CO: Mr Teng, what are your greatest concerns now that Gui Minhai has been given this ten year jail sentence?

TENG BIAO: Yeah, I think this case is extremely brutal and extremely ridiculous. Foreign citizen was kidnapped on a foreign soil, and then he was disappeared in China, and forced to give confession on official television. And he was tortured. He was actually forced to give up his citizenship. And now, he was sentenced to ten years.

CO: In Canada, we know from our own experience that China will not recognize dual citizenship. So his Swedish citizenship, the Chinese government doesn't acknowledge that.

TB: Yeah, Chinese law doesn't recognize dual citizenship. But in this case, it is absolutely not Gui Minhai’s own like idea to recover his Chinese citizenship.

CO: Now, he was arrested at the time, he was among five publishers — Hong Kong booksellers — who were arrested at the same time. The others have been released since then. Do you believe his association with it with bookselling and publishing it is the real reason why he is now in prison?

TB: Yeah, I think that's the reason he was he was kidnapped and convicted. He probably has a lot of books on Chinese politics, on Chinese top leaders — especially a book about Xi Jinping, and we believe that's the real reason.

CO: So why do you think the Chinese authorities are being so harsh with Gui Minhai? Why is he getting focused on in a way that the other booksellers did not?

TB: He published books about the secret lives of the top leaders of Chinese politics. And many Chinese people — including Chinese officials — went to Hong Kong to buy it to read the books he published. That's the reason why Chinese government is angry at him. And after, he was literally disappeared for more than two years. He was taken away in front of a Swedish diplomat in China. And this case became more and more influential internationally. So The government really wanted to give him a severe sentence to silence the international community, I think.

CO: So what role at this point can Sweden play in helping him? What role is Sweden playing in all of this?

TB: Yeah, after this case happened, the Swedish government did negotiate and do something with Chinese government. But generally speaking, it is not enough. What is worse is the former Swedish ambassador even helped the Chinese government to give pressure to Angela Gui, Gui Minhai’s daughter. So that's totally unacceptable. And I think Sweden should not cater to Chinese government. And it has a legal and political moral responsibility to protect its own citizens.

CO: Just maybe shed some light on what it's like to have to get out of China. You left China because you were detained, and you have great concerns about how you'd be treated if you would return to China. What hope do you have that you'll ever be able to go back there without fear?

TB: Yeah when I was in China, because of my human rights work, I was kidnapped by Chinese secret police for a few times, and disappeared, and tortured and I was also fired. And my family were also targeted. And torture and forced disappearance are rampant in China, as Gui Minhai has experienced. So I think, and for me, and many other Chinese dissidents, overseas dissidents, we are afraid of traveling to Thailand, Vietnam, Burma, or Hong Kong, or Nepal. Because it's likely for us to be kidnapped like Gui Minhai. And this case shows that no one is safe, even you don't have a Chinese passport, even you don't live in China. If your anger Chinese government, you can be kidnapped in other countries.

CO: Mr Teng, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

TB: Thank you for having me.

CO: Bye-bye.

TB: Bye.

CH: Teng Biao is a human rights lawyer who left China in 2014. He teaches at New York's Hunter College now. We reached him in Princeton, New Jersey. And for more on this story, visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Atmospheric instrumental]

India citizenship riots

Guest: Niha Masih

CH: The tour was supposed to showcase India at its best. Instead, U.S. President Donald Trump's visit put the deep divisions in the country on stark display. At least 13 people have been killed in Delhi amid protests against a controversial new citizenship law. The law grants a path to citizenship to nearby countries — but specifically excludes Muslims. Hindu mobs have reportedly been patrolling the streets, carrying iron bars and clubs. The clashes have killed both Hindu and Muslim protesters. Niha Masih is the India correspondent for the Washington Post. We reached her in Dehli.

CO: Niha, I know you have been at the hospital. A lot of the victims of this violence are going there. What did you see?

NIHA MASIH: I reached the hospital around 8:00 p.m. tonight. And in just about an hour, I saw injured just being brought in non-stop. Like, at least, I would say a dozen that I saw myself. Some of them had gunshot injuries, while some others seemed to have been injured with stone, hit by stones. They were being brought in some in ambulances, some on like motorbikes, some literally an auto-rickshaws. One of them who was coming on a bike actually fell down before he could reach the hospital.

CO: What are you hearing about what happened? I mean, what do you know, what did you see, what can you report about how these injuries were sustained?

NM: Right. So today was the second consecutive day that violence continued in Delhi. The trigger for this violence seems to have been a rally by a BJP leader on Sunday, where he threatened to vacate protesters against the citizenship law in northeastern Delhi. The Indian Parliament passed a citizenship law in December — which provides citizenship to six religions but excludes Islam. Since December, large-scale protests have broken out across the city — some of them that have continued for over two months now. As protests have continued, a lot of people in support of the government and in support of this law have also come out on the streets.

CO: Is this the first time you've seen this kind of violence against the protesters?

NM: Some of the protests, even in December, had turned violent. And a lot of people had died — nearly 20 across the country. However, that violence was very different from what is happening now because that violence was mainly police action on protesters — which seemed to have caused the deaths. This time, the violence is between protesters and supporters of the law. And that has obviously taken a communal turn and quickly become a Hindu-Muslim issue, where mobs have been targeting Muslim homes and shops and establishments. You know, the mobs chanting incendiary slogans in support of the law, in support of the government and particularly going after even religious establishments. You know, burning property.

CO: Does it then seem that principally this is an attack on Muslims? That this is a Hindu attack on Muslims? Or is it going both ways?

NM: It has been going both ways. It started off like that. But Tuesday saw many more targeted attacks at Muslims than the other way around.

Co: And you mentioned how the BJP leader, Kapil Mishra I believe is his name, his crackdown on there seems to be have what sparked the violence. Is there any effort you see on the part of the Modi government to try and to bring the temperature down, to try and de-escalate this tension that since this law has created?

NM: The response of the government has been criticized by many people, and been called into question over the last two days. As things began to be reported and news came in, the government took no specific steps to ensure a shutdown of this kind of violence. Mr. Modi’s second in command, Amit Shah, who is the home minister in charge of Delhi Police held a meeting with top officials. But said that adequate measures were being taken, but there was no or no statement or an appeal for peace from either the prime minister or him. There was no acknowledgment of the fact that this has been going on.

CO: Has there been efforts to try and shield President Donald Trump's visit to India from seeing this or being confronted with these protests?

NM: Well, in the press conference that President Trump held this evening, before he left, he was asked about this. But he did not give any direct answer. In fact, he was also asked about the citizenship law and whether he discussed that with Prime Minister Modi. President Trump said that he had raised the matter in private with the prime minister, but that it was up to India in general to see what happens next.

CO: If Mr. Trump raised it with Mr. Modi, was he condemning this citizenship law? Was he criticizing it in his raising this with the prime minister?

NM: He did not give any specific opinion on this at all. So you know his statement, I'm just pulling up, he said, we did talk about religious freedom. And I will say that the prime minister was incredible in what he told me. He wants people to have religious freedom and very strongly. So that was all that Mr. Trump said. So there is, you know, no clarity on what exactly that discussion looked like.

CO: And what are the police doing. Are they tolerating these mobs? Are they trying to stop them? Some have suggested the police might be encouraging them?

NM: That's, unfortunately, again, you know, there are indications to see that either the police have not responded effectively in curbing the violence. Or in certain videos that have emerged, shared by reporters and other people, where police have actually participated in an action against — have sided with the mobs, and turned violent as well. Some of the eyewitnesses that I spoke to also said that the police fired on crowds, so some of the gunshot injuries could even be in police firing.

CO: And the police reaction is against Muslims, in favour of Hindus?

NM: It's hard to say that in a straight way. But in in some cases, it definitely appears to be so.

CO: Niha, I know it's very late. You've had a long day covering this. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

NM: Thank you so much. Thank you.

CO: Goodnight.

CH: Niha Masih is the India correspondent for the Washington Post. We reached her in Dehli.

[Music: World music]

Coronavirus: Wuhan

CH: Today, U.S. President Donald Trump talked about the coronavirus at a press conference. "I think that whole situation will start working out," he said. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had a different message today. The CDC warned that it's expecting COVID-19 to start spreading on the community level in the United States. And several other countries are already reporting similar spreads. So far, all of the cases reported in both the US and Canada have been in patients who had travelled to the China or Iran. Meanwhile, Bruce Aylward, a Canadian WHO expert who's just returned from China told journalists today that the country has plenty to teach the world.

SOUNDCLIP

BRUCE AYLWARD: At this point, the world needs the experience of China. China has dealt with the most disease in the world. Thirty-one provinces have managed this. Everyone we spoke to, they knew what they were doing. And they've clinically managed huge numbers of cases now. And one of the points you heard me mentioned yesterday is countries are building barriers between themselves and China. And new barriers are going up in the last days. At a time when the cases and the risk from China are going down, and you need access to that expertise that much more. But the first thing in the response is there has to be a shift in mindsets. Again, around the world, people are thinking, oh gosh, how do we live with this and manage all this disaster, et cetera? Instead of, gosh, this virus has got to come. It's going to show up in our country. We're going to find it within the first week. We're going to find every case. We're going to go after every contact. We are going to make sure that we can isolate them and keep these people alive, so they survive the case. This is the way we've got to be thinking. It takes a real shift in mindset. And it's not a preparedness mindset. We usually think about how you prepare for eventual disasters. This is gonna come soon, potentially. You've got to be shifting to a readiness rapid response thinking.

CH: Canadian epidemiologist Bruce Aylward, speaking to journalists in Geneva today. He just led a two-week WHO mission in China to study the coronavirus outbreak.

[Music: World music]

Wrong house destroyed

Guest: Robb Hagestad

CH: For 30 years, Mary Ann Degataire lived in a bright pink house on Richard Avenue in Dallas, Texas. Ms Degataire painted the century-old bungalow pink herself. And she loved it. So when she became terminally ill with cancer — with no family to pass the home on to — she asked her friends to take care of it. Ms Degataire died in April 2018. This past Novemeber, two of her friends became the official homeowners. But a devastating mix-up last week means the pair weren't able to keep their promise. Robb Hagestad is one of the owners. We reached him in Los Angeles.

CO: Robb, what was your first indication that something terrible had happened to the Pink House?

ROBB HAGESTAD: Well, I'll tell you, on Wednesday morning, my phone was just blowing up. Everyone was calling. All the neighbours were calling — and they were all upset — that they thought I was tearing down the house after I had told them that we were gonna save it. And they were screaming in my ear. So it was quite a shock at 6 a.m. in L.A.

CO: Why was it a shock? Did you not know the house was being torn down?

RH: No. So this turned out to be a terrible mistake. The demolition company had a permit to tear down a house two blocks away.

CO: And they tore down your house?

RH: They did indeed. They made a terrible mistake. They pulled up to a house that old. This is a nearly 100-year-old house. And they pulled up, vacant house, let's tear it down.

CO: What's left of the house?

RH: Nothing. It is a dirt lot.

CO: [scoffs] What explanation has the demolition company given you?

RH: They've been very gracious, and they've apologized. And they've said that in their entire history — some 40 years — this is the first time this mistake has ever been made. I don't hold any ill will to them, but this is a grave mistake that took a beautiful old house that was on the way to becoming something better again.

CO: I've seen that just a photograph of the Pink House. Maybe you can describe it for people?

RH: Well, it was a craftsman-style all siding house. One-hundred years old. I think in New Orleans, they would have called this like a shotgun house. You can basically open up the front door and see all the way through the house. And there's about 14-hundred square feet, three bedrooms. And it had been the family home of our friend, Mary Ann Degataire, for more than 30 years. And her mom had left her the house. And when she was ill with cancer, she asked me and my partner to try to save the property. And we did everything we could to do it. And now we've got nothing but a dirt lot.

CO: But the company in its defence said that the house appeared to be abandoned, and that it was not a functioning house. It looked like something that maybe this was the right house to tear down. What was the state of the house in?

RH: The state of the house was quite poor. My poor friend Mary Ann, prior to her death, of course, had been living on disability. And therefore, certainly didn't have any money to maintain the property. So it had fallen into disrepair. There's no question. But the bones were good. It was in good shape. It was standing. It was relatively straight. The foundation could be fixed. The utilities were on. And we were in the process — our contractor actually was in the process — of providing us with a list of the things to do to rehab it and make it a livable, beautiful property.

CO: When your neighbours were calling to say what's going on, and being so frantic, what did the house mean to the neighbours? Why was it so important to so many people?

RH: Well, I mean, that's why this is really a tragedy. And I've spent the last three days just mourning this loss because Mary Ann and her family were really sort of the centrepiece of this neighbourhood. And this house was bright pink. And it had a huge front porch on it. And what's so interesting, I mean, today is Fat Tuesday. And Marianne loved New Orleans. And there would have been a huge party there today. And it's really sad. It's really a tragedy.

CO: And in the picture, it is true, there's this big huge covered porch. This looks like some place you just want to sit in a rocking chair and watch the world go by.

RH: It was the neighbourhood gathering place. You know, all of the neighbours knew of the house. It was bright pink [slight chuckle]. You could not miss it. Everyone came and sat on the front porch, and Mary Ann would always be there to meet people and throw a party or hold a conversation. She was the centrepiece of that neighbourhood.

CO: And what are your own memories of that house?

RH: Jeremy and I — my partner — have known Mary Ann for more than 20 years. And we used to go to that house. We lived in Dallas. Jeremy and Mary Ann worked together. And we used to go to that house weekly to go to parties and hang out and watch football games and Halloween. She loved Halloween. And she loved Mardi Gras. And it was just it was a happy place.

CO: What effect is it having on you and your partner that it's gone?

RH: I mean, we're mourning, to be honest. We were in complete and total shock, had no idea how to even think about the whole thing for a couple of days, and now we're just mourning. I mean, we fought long and hard to save this property. This process has taken more than two years to really get control of the property and start construction and hire a contractor. She died in April of 2018. And for all kinds of reasons, it's just taken two years to work through all of the different challenges that it's taken to get control of the property. And here we are left with a dirt lot instead of a project. You know, we were looking forward to rehabbing it and turning it into something beautiful again.

CO: So what are you going to do with the property now?

RH: I really don't know how to go forward. Obviously, there has to be some resolution. I don't know what that resolution looks like or I would not even be able begin to put a dollar amount on it. We have a dirt lot. It needs to be turned into something fun and interesting. And there needs to be a house there again. And that's the plan.

CO: And is the demolition company offering you any compensation?

RH: Well, they haven't put a dollar amount on it yet. We've had no fewer than probably 20 phone calls from other developers making offers on the lot. But that's not the solution.

CO: Because you can't reconstruct that spirit, can you?

RH: No, you certainly cannot. I mean a 100-year-old house. How often do those come around? I mean, that are in good enough shape to turn into something beautiful. Those houses have character. Ten-foot ceilings and crown moldings and oak floors that don't even exist anymore. I mean, the oak was probably three-inches thick on those floors. That just doesn't exist anymore.

CO: And plus a;; the history of the people who lived in it.

RH: Exactly. It was a happy place. And that's really the legacy. It was a happy place. It was pink. It was fun.

CO: Robb, I'm sorry about the house. But I appreciate that you would tell us the story. Thank you.

RH: You're certainly welcome. Thank you very much.

CH: Robb Hagestad is the co-owner of a now-demolished pink house in Dallas, Texas. It was accidentally torn down last week. The house previously belonged to his friend Mary Ann Degataire, who died of cancer in April 2018. Mr. Hagestad was in Los Angeles. You can find more, including photos, on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Bright instrumental]

Duck Robbery

CH: Maybe he was an unwitting accomplice. Or maybe he was the mastermind. Either way, when trouble started, his partners ran off and left him a sitting duck. Or a standing duck. A duck doing whatever it was doing, but — the point is — an actual duck. This is the mystery that confronted police in Birmingham, England, when they arrived at a store where a robbery had just been committed. Not the robbery itself. That was straightforward: two men stole some stuff and ran off when they were confronted. The mystery was: the duck. On Saturday, West Midlands Police tweeted, "This poor duck was left in a shop when the offenders for a shop theft made off having brought him with them." Which is the most confusing way of saying a confusing thing: the robbers had taken the duck into the store with them. And then just took off without it. The unnamed duck was taken into custody — by which I mean, a box — and delivered safely to an animal shelter. Where he'll have plenty of time to think about how things went south — and why he didn't.

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February 25, 2020 episode transcript

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