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The AIH Transcript for May 20, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

CO: Tech-ed off. Google tells Huawei to back off its operating system in what our guest describes as a Chinese-U.S. battle for the technologies of the future.

JD: Figure of speech. A Morehouse College student describes his tears after a billionaire uses a commencement speech to wipe out the graduating class's student debt.

CO: Lights, camera, election. Austrians are heading to the polls after the head of their government's right-wing party is caught on film offering public contracts for political support.

JD: Live from New York, it's never mind. Remembering the late great Gilda Radner 30 years after she left us laughing, as always. We will hear an interview with her from As It Happens.

CO: Monkey business. Primatologist take a deep dive into the mating habits of male bonobos -- and finds that much of their success can be attributed to pushy bonobo moms.

JD: And...if you like the way it looks that much. A park official in Iceland says she has been offered bribes from visiting fans who are desperate to trample a canyon where Justin Bieber shot one of his music videos. As It Happens. The Monday Edition. Radio where we're sorry Beliebers but you will politely be asked to be-leave here.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Consumers will pay the price for Google cutting ties with Huawei, says cyber policy expert

Google Huawei

Guest: Emily Taylor

JD: If you use a cell phone made by Huawei, you almost certainly use Google products. That could soon change. Google just told Huawei -- the world's second largest smartphone manufacturer -- that it will restrict the company from using its Google Android operating system. That means that Google apps like Gmail, YouTube, or Maps may no longer be carried on future Huawei phones. Google says it is complying with a decision made last week by President Donald Trump. The president added Huawei to a list of companies that American firms cannot trade with unless they have a license. Emily Taylor is an associate fellow at Chatham House, and specializes in international security. We reached her in London.

CO: Ms. Taylor first of all how big of a blow is this for Huawei?

EMILY TAYLOR: It's definitely a setback -- there's no doubt about it. Google is one of the world's top software providers. It has got a dominant position in many software markets. You just think about its applications like YouTube, Maps, Gmail -- which is so heavily used throughout the world. That said, it's probably also a setback for Google because Huawei is the second largest mobile phone handset provider in the world. And just last year it shipped 200 million units -- it is particularly strong in markets that are growing like developing countries and also among younger people. So I think all round bad news.

CO: But what does it matter? I mean what happens if Google can't play with Huawei -- and of course a lot of its devices already have Android, they're interconnected already, aren't they? So what now actually happens to people who have Huawei products or are planning to buy them?

EMILY TAYLOR: So I think people who have Huawei phones already there's certain reassurance that they will still be able to update their phone and update you know make vital security patches which are essential in today's world. For those who might be planning to buy a Huawei phone, it's less clear. There's an element of the Android platform that is open source and that means that any provider throughout the world -- anybody can use that software. But it's the enhanced version that is in the Huawei phones now and which includes these very very popular apps.

CO: I guess you are saying well this is okay, it is not great. But the language that the press is using is quite extraordinary, isn't it. I mean one article is describing this as one of the most dramatic moments in Android's history. Another one is that this is the equivalent of a kind of tech-Cold War with an iron curtain now that has descended between the East and the West. How far would you go?

EMILY TAYLOR: There's definitely been an escalation and tension -- and particularly with the backdrop of the U.S.-China trade negotiations there's been a lot of focus on Huawei and particularly with regard to 5G, the new superfast mobile broadband. You know, not great -- it is hard to know how this will unwind. If these measures stay in place, it's going to hurt not just U.S. businesses but also consumers around the world. Those outside of the U.S. who just happen to own a Huawei handset and like using Google products -- and when you have that kind of disruption, I think this is the first time that consumers are really going to be directly impacted by the tensions that are being played out in other fora.

CO: And what's the target here? The Trump administration by putting Huawei on its so-called entity list which ends up banning the company from acquiring technology from U.S. firms without government approval -- and so this is why Google has been caught up in this and Google has now said it has to comply with that. But is Huawei really the target or is it something else that's going on here?

EMILY TAYLOR: Huawei is definitely been a lightning rod and we've seen that since December -- last year with the arrest in Canada of its chief financial officer, Meng Wanzhou, and the subsequent detention of Canadian nationals in China. But I think that the overall context is what's going on between the U.S. and China. There is this trade negotiation. But also if the U.S. is having to come to terms with something it's not had to live with before which is not being the world beating technology provider for absolutely everything. The idea of China producing technological champions like Huawei -- apparently feels threatening to the United States at this time in this moment.

CO: And so if you follow the money on this -- who benefits from limiting Huawei's access to Western markets?

EMILY TAYLOR: When you have dramatic measures like this sometimes they can backfire and sometimes they can create outcomes that nobody really intended. So definitely the idea is to hamper Huawei's development as a handset provider -- to hurt it economically. But just say what if this provides a new opening for software providers who have previously been shut out by Google's dominance and by it being such an enormous competitor. So Huawei will naturally turn to perhaps domestic providers such as Alibaba, such as Baidu, and Tencent which are very capable in these markets. So it will be very interesting to see whether this has the effect that the Trump administration are hoping for.

CO: But then what happens as far as because Google is so intertwined in the world right -- so you're getting this idea of the Iron Curtain does it end up that there are East and West -- that there are two worlds and that they have very little communication between them?

EMILY TAYLOR: That's the risk. So imagine a scenario where you have your Huwaei handset and you have a choice of Chinese providers and apps to do all of those functions like mail, messaging, video streaming. And then in the West you have Western providers phone and all of these U.S. giant tech choices -- that provides a very different experience which we haven't really seen before to this extent. Now of course in every country the way that people use the Internet will be different. But actually Google and Facebook are the number one and number two websites in most of the world except where in countries like China where there have been historically protectionist policies that have excluded them from those markets. So it might just change the shape of things -- create splits, create fractures, in this single global network which has been such an enormous benefit for communications, access to knowledge, and the fact that it's the same internet whether you are in Singapore or Canada or the United Kingdom -- anywhere in the world -- has been an enormous you know unprecedented before and maybe this is something that we're seeing coming to an end.

CO: All right we'll leave it there. Ms. Taylor thank you.

EMILY TAYLOR: Thank you very much.

JD: Emily Taylor is an associate fellow at Chatham House, and the editor of Cyber Policy Journal. We reached Ms. Taylor in London. And we do have more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Student Debt Cleared

Guest: Aaron Mitchom

JD: Commencement speeches...they could be a hit or miss, can't they? They often contain clichés, platitudes, bad jokes. They have a tendency to run on a bit. However, yesterday, grads at Morehouse College were treated to an especially memorable commencement speech delivered by tech investor Robert F. Smith.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBERT F. SMITH: On behalf of the eight generations of my family who have been in this country -- we're going to put a little fuel in your bus. Now I've got the alumni over there and this is a challenge to you alumni. This is my class 2019. And my family is making a grant to eliminate their student loans.

[People cheering]

JD: Yes, the billionaire promised to pay the collective student loans of Morehouse College's graduating class -- an estimated cost of more than 40 million dollars. Among the graduates at Morehouse -- Aaron Mitchom, a 22-year-old finance major. We reached Mr. Mitchom in Atlanta, Georgia.

CO: Okay Aaron so what's your opinion -- do you think that was possibly the best commencement speech you've ever heard?

AARON MITCHOM: Oh most definitely. It's funny because we actually had Obama a couple of years -- so I feel like that was up there with Obama, if not, it probably topped it.

CO: [Laughter] What he had to say -- we just played that -- did it sink in immediately?

AM: Well it's so funny because I sat there for a moment -- I'm like "Wait, what happened? What's going on?" And then tears just start rolling down my eyes and I'm just like "You're paying off my loans -- I'm debt free. Oh my goodness! I'm debt free." And I literally stood up in my chair and I just thank God. It was the most amazing moment of my life.

CO: I'm feeling goose bumps myself as you say that. And the reaction among other people what was it like?

AM: So a lot of my other brothers had a lot of student loan debt and people were crying, people were calling their parents. In the middle graduation my parents FaceTimed me -- saying, was he serious? And we were all just shocked. We all thought that he was playing a trick on us and then we got news on our phones that it was true and we're like oh my goodness...he is serious.

CO: I understand that even the university didn't know he was going to do that.

AM: Right right. It's funny because when I went and shook his hand you know I said thank you a million times. And I kept walking over. I walked to one of our professors and she hugged me -- she's like Aaron you're debt free, congratulations like look what God has done for you. Congrats. And that hit hard for me because she knew my situation was going on.

CO: How much debt are you carrying or were you carrying?

AM: Close to two hundred thousand dollars.

CO: For how many years in college?

AM: All four years in college. I got out in four years.

CO: Unbelievable! Two hundred thousand dollars. How much of that was your tuition?

AM: So it's actually pretty interesting if you break it down so 75 percent of that was my tuition and then a quarter of that was housing. And then I took out the full entire amount --freshman year and also for summer time to pay for housing and tuition. And it's interesting because my mom literally after the graduation she told me, Hey that that Sallie Mae loan you took out has almost doubled. So I was like wow!

CO: Did your family help you get those loans?

AM: Yes. So actually it was six of us. My sister, my brother-in-law, my mom, my dad, my grandmother, and my aunt all co-signed on loans throughout the entire time of my matriculation throughout Morehouse. And now with him paying it off -- our credit scores will rise and it's amazing.

CO: I understand your grandma was also helping out with it.

AM: Oh yes yes. My grandma covered summer school as well. Even though I took out close to two hundred thousand -- I was also living with her for the past couple of years. I mean that helped a little bit but also as many people know that interest rates are so high and as compound interest works is really meant to keep you in your loan. So even with me staying with her during my years at Morehouse I still had close to two hundred thousand dollars that I'd taken out.

CO: You know when you compare it to Canada -- I mean because Canadians students -- I know lots of people are graduating and they are just shocked by how much debt they're carrying. Nothing like that. I mean tuition in Canada averages around six thousand a year. Your average -- just looking it up -- the minimum you'd get is ten thousand a year in tuition, it's upwards in private colleges like yours of thirty five thousand dollars a year for an undergraduate. I mean how does anybody get an education in the United States with that?

AM: That's exactly -- especially because one thing for us as HBCUs something that people don't realize is that it's hard -- it's really difficult because you're going off to meetings with great companies, great graduate schools, and you have this huge burden of a loan and debt and it's like nobody can really help and it makes no sense.

CO: What's HBCU?

AM: Historically Black College University.

CO: And Morehouse is also a private U.S. college, isn't it?

AM: Yes yes exactly. It's a HBCU and a private U.S. college.

CO: Why do you think that this man -- Robert Smith -- this billionaire chose your school?

AM: So I feel like he saw in us what he saw in him. So growing up a lot of our stories are kind of similar in a sense of we were the smart black kids on the school bus like he talked about in the commencement speech. We are smart, everybody loves us the we acted -- but when it came time to pay for college, go to school, you know it was hard. It was rough because our parents didn't have that 529 plan you see a lot of your non-minority friends have or money saved up because you know your parents are working long hours just make ends meet. So his story was similar to a lot of ours so he also in us, he saw greatness. He saw what Morehouse saw in us this whole time.

CO: But he also issues a challenge to you, doesn't he? I mean he says that you've been chosen for your classmates to pay it forward. What does he want you to do?

AM: Really and truly I feel like it is from two different aspects of things. So from a financial aspect now that we have no loans -- paying it forward in sense of financially, that now we can start helping out people who aren't in our class, right? The people who are coming up -- the next generation -- of Morehouse. And then from more of an ethically standpoint, he is speaking of 'hey what are you going to do out here to change the world and give back to your college in a non-financial? Are you going to come back and speak? Are you going to go back and mentor somebody? Are you going to help somebody get through Morehouse? Are you going to be there for them when they have some type of mental health issue?' One black man holding another black man up.

CO: In fact he said in the commencement speech because we are enough to take care of our own community.

AM: Right. Exactly. We could sustain ourselves. It's just that we just need a little help. And that's what he did. He took a whole generation of black men and turned it around.

CO: You know the one thing about this though is that it's such a generous gift from a wealthy man -- but the message that many are giving, politically, is that there's so much debt. American students carry so much debt that you can't expect philanthropy or patrons to pay for it, it should be government. I mean you have 44 million students who are carrying a one and a half trillion dollars in student debt in your country. And maybe it's the place for the government to step in and make this easier for you. What do you say to that?

AM: I definitely think the government should definitely step up. You have too many people with student loans -- and what's going to happen is it is going to be kind of like 2007-2008. It's going to come back and bite us. And nobody is really recognizing that, so somebody has to step up and do something.

CO: Well because it's an investment, isn't it? I mean that young people can do better and get better jobs. They can also afford to be buying houses and starting families and starting businesses and everything.

AM: Exactly yes. And so I know a lot of guys who are still in apartments up till 40 and 50 years old because they are like why would I get a house? I can't afford a house. I can't afford to go out. So really having that right there is just boosting the economy if you take care of college because you need some type of education to make it in America especially as a black man.

CO: Aaron what are you going to do? Do you have a job? Is anything lined up?

AM: So right now I'm actually currently interviewing with a couple of financial institutions. I would like to work in the financial field. As you see I'm pretty good at doing analysis [laughing] so.

CO: And selling yourself. [Laughter]

AM: It's only about [inaudible] -- hey I have a resume! Just let me know, right? [Laughter].

CO: Aaron I wish you all the best and congratulations. Thank you.

AM: Thank you so much for the interview.

JD: Aaron Mitchom is a 2019 graduate from Morehouse College. One of 400 grads who will see their student debt covered by philanthropist Robert F. Smith. We reached Mr. Mitchom in Atlanta.

[Music]

Bieber Canyon

Guest: Hanna Johannsdottir

JD: Fjadrargljufur is a picturesque canyon in Iceland. But it has become so popular that officials have been forced to close it to visitors. Some are blaming pop star Justin Bieber for that explosion in interest. In the music video for his song "I'll Show You" where he can be seen frolicking about the canyon. Hanna Johnnsdottir is a ranger with the Environment Agency of Iceland who was tasked with turning visitors away. We reached her in Budardalur, Iceland.

CO: Hanna I have now joined millions of people who have watched this Justin Bieber video and I have to say the video -- the pictures -- are quite stunning. What is it about this canyon -- if you could describe how beautiful it is, what would you say?

HANNA JOHANNSDOTTIR: It's a very fascinating canyon -- that's just formed after the river through the last hundred thousand years. And it's a pretty amazing area. It's a tough canyon with some small river running after it. And moss covered cliff -- its edges -- and in the end of it there is a small waterfall.

CO: What we see in the video that Justin Bieber makes -- he is walking along those very narrow cliffs, he's sitting on the edge of them, he's rolling through the moss, he is skateboarding, he is swimming, he's jumping, leaping over fences that look like they are barriers where you are not supposed to cross. So how much of the area has he covered by the end of this picture?

HJ: He only covered the beginning of the canyon in his video. And then he went down to the river and swim in the river. But yeah it's not good for the moss to walk in it because it's very sensitive and if we walk on it, it dies -- and it takes hundreds of year to heal back. Also the cliff -- are actually pretty -- it's very loose soil so it's pretty dangerous to go out to them.

CO: So since the video has come out, what effect has it had on people visiting that canyon?

HJ: Some people that come here come because of him. But there are all kinds of reasons that people have to visit the canyon. And unfortunately some people just want to take the same picture of themself as he did sitting on the edge. That's not very good because now we don't have any moss or vegetation on this cliff. It's just ruined. But people do a lot of stupid things for the perfect Instagram photo.

CO: You've had to actually close it to visitors at this point, is that right?

HJ: It is closed. Has been closed this winter due to thawing conditions. The weather conditions for this winter has been pretty bad. It has been raining and freezing every second day. And then the soil gets very muddy and all kinds of things. And the hiking path went all in mud. And people or visitors didn't want to get dust on their shoes so they started to walk outside of the hiking path and then the damaged area got bigger and bigger and bigger. And then we had to close it up so it would heal up again and dry up.

CO: So you work as a ranger at that canyon. People are determined -- they are coming from all over the world to sit on the cliff that Justin Bieber sat on. So what do they say to you when they get there and you tell them they can't?

HJ: Most people are just pretty understanding. But there is always one man -- one person --that tries everything to get through it.

CO: And that includes apparently offering you things, is that right?

HJ: Yeah. I've been offered all kinds of things.

CO: Like what?

HJ: Yeah I have been offered all kinds of food. Also the best offer was probably a trip to Dubai.

CO: Really? [Laughter] Like an all expenses to Dubai if you let them in?

HJ: Yeah.

CO: And I'm presuming you didn't take it.

HJ: No I didn't.

CO: Has anything tempted you? Has there been anything where you thought, "Okay maybe I'll make an exception here."

HJ: No. I will just get more and more stubborn when people offer bribes. [Laughter].

CO: They can't break you.

HJ: No.

CO: And of course what you're doing is you're protecting this place. And it sounds like it's become so much more popular since the Justin Bieber song. But in general, more and more people are going to Iceland now, aren't they?

HJ: Yeah they are. Just for the past 10 years it has been a big increase in tourists. By the year 2010 we had just a bit less than 500,000 visitors. But 2015 when Justin Bieber came here we had 1.3-million visitors. Iceland got just some very popular place to go. And it happened very fast and many sensitive places has been very bad out of that because we were just not ready for all these travelers -- so short time.

CO: It is really a beautiful place. And I envy you that you can spend time up there. And I hope the damage wasn't too extensive.

HJ: No -- it will be, hopefully, repaired over the next year.

CO: All right. Thanks for speaking with us Hanna.

HJ: You're welcome.

JD: Hanna Johannsdottir is a ranger with the Environment Agency of Iceland. We reached her in Budardalur.

[Music]

Part 2: Austria Scandal

Austria Scandal

Guest: Rick Noack

JD: A huge political scandal unfolded in Austria this weekend triggering protests.

SOUNDCLIP

[Crowd singing]

JD: Yes, those protesters are singing about Ibiza -- the Spanish island known for its wild parties. And that is where the leader of the country's far-right party who became part of a governing coalition was filmed during a sting operation. He was attempting to make a deal with a woman he believed was connected to a powerful Russian. She was not. And the tape made it into the hands of German reporters. And now that politician, Heinz-Christian Strache, has resigned -- prompting a snap election. Rick Noack has been covering the scandal for The Washington Post. We reached him in Berlin.

CO: Rick just to begin, can you tell us who are the players in this little video?

RICK NOACK: Well the key player really is Heinz-Christian Strache -- at that point when it was recorded in 2017, not yet vice-chancellor of Austria -- but the man who later became one of the most important men in Austria. And he's seen in the video having a seven hour boozy conversation with a woman he believed to be the niece of a Russian oligarch family. He was offering state contracts if she did political donations to his party or invested into media outlets in the country.

CO: So that little political drama and this is in Ibiza -- in the Spanish island known for I guess wild parties.

RN: Yeah absolutely. It's a holiday island in the Mediterranean. A very popular among party tourists -- and apparently far-right politicians like Heinz-Christian Strache.

CO: On the subject of far-right politicians, tell us who Heinz-Christian Strache is and what party he's with?

RN: He is with the Austrian Freedom Party -- that is a far-right party that goes back quite a long time to pretty much the time right after World War Two. It's a party that was founded by ex-SS Nazi officers. So really a party that in its core identity very long had a very far-right ideology. It has gone up and down over the last few decades in terms of how extreme it was. But over the last 10 years or something -- since 2005 it has become more radical again under the leadership of Heinz-Christian Strache.

CO: Become more radical but also become more powerful -- what position did he play in the government?

RN: He was the vice chancellor so really one of the most important jobs in the government. And what critics really viewed as perhaps even more concerning was that the far-right didn't just have the vice chancellor in office but also key posts including the Defense Ministry oversight or the Interior Ministry where one of his allies (Herbert) Kickl took over -- and that was very much seen in a very critical way by a lot of observers in Austria but also abroad.

CO: So they were at this resort, Heinz-Christian Strache is having a conversation, he thinks the woman is the niece of a Russian oligarch, but who was she really?

RN: Well we don't really know who that woman was. That is one of the secrets -- one of the mysteries -- of this video. We also don't know why it was recorded, what the motivation behind it was, and why it was only released now about two years later clearly days ahead of European elections that will shape to some extent the future of this continent. And of course where the far-right is under extreme scrutiny as well.

CO: So the deal was -- that he was trying to strike -- how crucial is that? What would that have done had he been able to have this deal that he thought he was working at with the niece of a Russian oligarch?

RN: Well they were specifically talking about her acquiring stakes in the largest newspaper of the country which prides itself for essentially being impartial. And other parties in the country have tried to acquire such stakes or at least have more influence on it but have failed. So he was very determined to make that deal happen essentially to have her acquire stakes in that newspaper and then be able to shape the paper's editorial line and to align it with the far-right party's ideology or policy stances.

CO: Now the now former Vice Chancellor Mr. Strache has had some things to say -- what has he said about this scandal?

RN: Well he has apologized to his family, to other people he might have hurt in that video. But one of the striking things is that he in fact mocked the man who would soon become his boss -- the current chancellor Sebastian Kurz who is the head of the conservative party in Austria. It's a clear embarrassment for him. But what he's been trying to say is that he hasn't broken any laws -- nothing about it was illegal in any way. But that is something his opponents would question, and in fact it's quite likely that there will be an investigation that there will be probes into that evening into that video.

CO: What does this say about the coalition though that did Chancellor Sebastian Kurz had with this Mr. Strache? What does that say about where politics was when they made this coalition?

RN: I think that's a really interesting question. Sebastian Kurz the conservative Austrian chancellor he faced a lot of criticism for forming a coalition with the far-right back in 2017 and especially for handing them crucial ministries. But he also was praised by some for trying to tame the far-right by essentially showing that they're not up for the task. And this story will continue. We don't really know yet how it's going to play out if it actually is going to disenchant the far-right in Austria or if it's going to embolden them by really rallying their core supporters behind conspiracy theories about how that video came about.

CO: But meanwhile the coalition has fallen apart. Mr. Strache is not the only member of his party to be facing consequences. But I'm wondering what this does as we enter European Union elections -- we are in them -- where a new number of far-right parties are expected to perform very strongly -- will it have any impact on their fortunes?

RN: I think the interesting question given that about 400 million Europeans are heading to the polls or are eligible to head to the polls next week will be how this is going to play out abroad in other EU member states. And certainly this does come at a difficult time for far-right because they have been trying to portray themselves as a across European force that is able to participate in government seriously, take part in government. And this scandal shows that might not be the case.

CO: All right I guess this is one of those points, well we will be watching. Rick I appreciate you bringing us up to date. Thank you.

RN: Thanks so much for having me.

JD: Rick Noack is a reporter for The Washington Post. We reached him in Berlin.

[Music]

Encore: Gilda Radner

JD: Of all the talents who have stepped out onto the Saturday Night Live stage these names of the original cast members stand out: Chevy Chase, Belushi, Aykroyd. Missing from that lists is Gilda Radner. In the '80s, sketch comedy was a macho, male-dominated sport. And by most accounts the culture at SNL was no better. That did not faze Ms. Radner. The comedian was beloved by her male colleagues as much as she was by her fans. She was versatile -- whether she was doing a parody of a celebrity, skewering the media, or poking fun at her own neuroses -- Ms. Radner could pivot between characters and set a pace that few could match. And in doing so she paved the way for other comedians like Elaine in "Seinfeld" or Liz Lemon in "30 Rock." Here is Gilda Radner playing one of her recurring characters Emily Litella -- a hard-of-hearing commentator who frequently interrupted "Weekend Update" host Chevy Chase -- who she called "Cheddar Cheese."

SOUNDCLIP

[Phone rings]

VOICE 1: Hello.

VOICE 2: Hello. Is this Cheddar Cheese?

[Laughter]

VOICE 1: Yes Ms. Litella.

VOICE 2: Oh how was your summer Cheddar?

VOICE 1: Ms. Litella I'm on the air right now. Could you just send in your editorial reply or call back later?

VOICE 2: Well Cheddar I know you're very busy and I don't want to take up too much of your time. But what's all this fuss I keep hearing about five crustaceans hijacking an airplane.

[Laughter]

VOICE 2: Now I just don't understand how five small animals with little shells can even get on a plane in the first place -- let alone steal it! Now where did they hide their guns? And who made their little masks for them? Mind you, I don't blame those little buggers for being upset at us after what we have done to their water. But it's outrageous! How could these little crustaceans steal the plane!

VOICE 1: Ms. Litella.

VOICE 2: Yes.

VOICE 1: Ah...that was Croatians. Five Croatians hijacked a plane -- not crustaceans -- Croatians.

VOICE 2: Oh is it?

VOICE 1: Yes.

VOICE 2: What are those?

[Laughter]

VOICE 1: They are another form of shellfish Ms. Litella.

[Laughter]

VOICE 2: Oh...well that's different. Never mind.

VOICE 1: Bye.

JD: Chevy Chase and Gilda Radner as Emily Litella on Saturday Night Live back in 1976. Gilda Radner died 30 years ago today. She was 42 years old. In 1977, former As It Happens host Barbara Frum spoke to Gilda Radner about what life was like at SNL and where those characters came from. So from our archives here is that conversation with Alan Maitland's introduction.

SOUNDCLIP

ALAN MAITLAND: Live from New York City it's Saturday Night Live. Yes! Live, outrageous, insane and hip -- Saturday Night is the first new variety show designed for the frozen dinner generation. The show takes on topics the rest of television still holds dear. Nothing is too sacred to escape its satirical review. With its loyal and dedicated viewing audience providing smash ratings even stuffy NBC bureaucrats have to allow Canadian producer Lorne Michaels the leeway to create his own version of weekly Saturday night panic. Since top banana, Chevy Chase, tripped on to other things -- Gilda Radner has taken over the spotlight amongst the not yet ready for primetime players. She's the funny lady who caricatures Barbara Walters -- Baba Wawa as she calls her. And capably takes on the likes Jackie O and Miss Lillian. Having lived in Toronto for seven years, Gilda met all her future cohorts that now form the Canadian Coalition that goes into creating Saturday Night each week. Live from New York, As It Happens is proud to present Gilda Radner.

GILDA RADNER: Barbara?

BARBARA FRUM: Yes?

GILDA RADNER: Hi it's Gilda.

BARBARA FRUM: Nice to meet you.

GILDA RADNER: Nice to meet you too.

BARBARA FRUM: Knowing we were going to talk to you we've been looking for all year old fans and friends here to get the lowdown and the dirt on you. And they all are crazy about you.

GILDA RADNER: And they told you everything, right?

BARBARA FRUM: Everything.

GILDA RADNER: [Laughs] Okay.

BARBARA FRUM: Drinking bourbon in the park in the middle of the night.

GILDA RADNER: I was just going to say that. I use to like walk through the park to visit Valri Bromfield who lived across [inaudible] from me and I think I'd have a drink and I'd walk through there and I'd see people in the park -- it was like a cocktail party.

BARBARA FRUM: [Laughing] I think at this point people are watching Saturday Night Live because of you.

GILDA RADNER: Really?

BARBARA FRUM: Yeah.

GILDA RADNER: Well I don't know. I don't think so.

BARBARA FRUM: They're still waiting maybe for some of the old characters to come back. But you seem to be the top banana.

GILDA RADNER: Well I don't believe that.

BARBARA FRUM: You don't?

GILDA RADNER: No I don't. I don't think so. I think it's like there's an incredible family here you know. And it's the support and the energy that's created by the comfort in that family you know. I'm just precocious I guess. I'm the precocious kid.

BARBARA FRUM: Do they set you up? Did they create Baba Wawa for you or was that your own creation?

GILDA RADNER: The first time I did that was at the suggestion of the guys that I worked with in the Lampoon show that I did here in New York off Broadway. One of our scenes was a press conference and they said well what woman could you do? And someone suggested Barbara Walters. So I watched he on Not for Women Only because it was back then you know. And I did her first then and as she became a very public figure since then. So it just worked to my advantage that way.

BARBARA FRUM: How does she like Barbara Wawa?

GILDA RADNER: I don't know.

BARBARA FRUM: You didn't ever hear from her?

GILDA RADNER: No not personally. I met her once at a party. She said come here -- show me what you do, how do you do it. I showed her -- and she kind of laughed. But she was real nice -- real spunky.

BARBARA FRUM: Did you create Emily too?

GILDA RADNER: Yeah.

BARBARA FRUM: So someone says to you can you do something silly, can you create a character yourself?

GILDA RADNER: Well I think we spent a lot of time up here and sometimes things just come out from sitting around and being silly, you know. I didn't think when I came to work here that I did any characters to be honest with you. And then they came out of somewhere.

BARBARA FRUM: I find that the magic of the night is when you and Jane Curtin are working against each other.

GILDA RADNER: Yeah. She's sitting right across from me now.

BARBARA FRUM: Really? Well I turn off the show after that.

GILDA RADNER: Really?

BARBARA FRUM: It's nothing left after that.

GILDA RADNER: I know. I hope we get to do that again. Emily and Jane.

BARBARA FRUM: I gather that people think Emily's been overexposed but I'm not sick of it.

GILDA RADNER: Well she may surprise you.

BARBARA FRUM: Oh good.

GILDA RADNER: I still got the glasses anyway.

BARBARA FRUM: But there's a special kind of tension between the two of you playing against each other that's very unusual because up till now really women haven't played against each other very well in comedy.

GILDA RADNER: I think it's based on trust and friendship. You know?

BARBARA FRUM: Oh my God you're making this sound like an encounter therapy down there.

GILDA RADNER: No no. I know I'm making it sound weird but it is true you know. Something about the show comes out of all the agony and everything of all of us working together you know.

BARBARA FRUM: Why do you use a word like agony? How bad is it?

GILDA RADNER: Like in any family there is agony -- and long hours. And you know what I mean?

BARBARA FRUM: I sure do. Are there nights when it does go wrong but there's something right about that too that it's so awful it's wonderful?

GILDA RADNER: Sure. And then we also feel like somethings will peak in dress rehearsal and then on the live show they never find that same space. But at least it's honest. This is the best of television, you know. The best possible job there is in terms of being able to be involved on all levels -- in the writing, in creating. You know so who knows you know hopefully if I don't go on doing this show I can go on to do something that is as invigorating and exciting.

BARBARA FRUM: Would it be television again? Have you got something up your sleeve?

GILDA RADNER: I don't know.

BARBARA FRUM: You sound like Emily. I don't know.

GILDA RADNER: I don't know. [Laughter] I feel about as old as Emily today.

BARBARA FRUM: Why what's wrong?

GILDA RADNER: Nothing...just tired. We are right in the middle like today -- today is the camera blocking day you know. And I was just tap dancing. I'm tired.

BARBARA FRUM: Did you ever think in Detroit you'd be a tap dancer on national -- world -- television?

GILDA RADNER: No never ever.

BARBARA FRUM: You thought you were just going to be a chubby kid the rest of your life?

GILDA RADNER: I thought I would just be a dancer in front of my house on my lawn forever or in my backyard.

BARBARA FRUM: Do you realize that we think of you as Canadian? Isn't that awful?

GILDA RADNER: Sure.

BARBARA FRUM: We're so chauvinist we'll claim anything.

GILDA RADNER: Go right ahead because that's my home.

BARBARA FRUM: Can we claim you?

GILDA RADNER: I lived there for seven years and...

BARBARA FRUM: You don't mind if we claim you?

GILDA RADNER: No not at all. I've always been connected there. My dad had his business in Windsor. Because I lived in Detroit right across and it always seemed the most natural thing that when I became a landed immigrant there -- but don't tell immigration [Laughs].

BARBARA FRUM: We're very grateful to you.

GILDA RADNER: Thank you.

BARBARA FRUM: Sorry to interrupt you on a tired day.

GILDA RADNER: No that's all right. I wish I could tap for you on the radio.

BARBARA FRUM: Well do one little voice instead.

GILDA RADNER: Well [switches voice] I just wanted to say hello everyone in Canada and hope they have a wonderful holiday.

[Laughter]

BARBARA FRUM: That's enough.

GILDA RADNER: Okay.

BARBARA FRUM: Is that live from New York -- what you just did?

GILDA RADNER: Yes this is live from New York. [Switches voice] Never mind.

BARBARA FRUM: [Laughter] Goodbye Emily.

GILDA RADNER: Okay bye bye. Thank you.

BARBARA FRUM: You're welcome.

JD: That was Barbara Frum in conversation with Gilda Radner in 1977. The late comedian and original Saturday Night Live cast member died 30 years ago today -- at age 42. She died of ovarian cancer. And her friends established Gilda's Club in her memory to offer support to those dealing with cancer.

[Music]

Motherly love

JD: When it comes to romance, nothing dissipates that loving feeling quite like the arrival of your mom. Although, while true for you and me it seems that it isn't necessarily the case for some of our primate cousins. Just ask the scientists who have been studying bonobos in Congo, Tanzania, Uganda, and Ivory Coast. Their focus is on the powerful females who often dominate groups of these super active sexual apes -- and also on the role these mothers play in their son's sexual relationships. Martin Surbeck of the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig, Germany, describes the role politely saying, quote, "The mothers tend to be a social passport for their sons." What Mr. Surbeck means is that bonobo mothers and make it their business to get up in the business of their bonobo boys love lives. Mothers drag reluctant sons to what are called huddles of fertile females. Moms then wait until junior gins up the courage to engage one of the females in an intimate acquaintance. And then -- thanks mom -- bonobo mothers will start charging at other nearby males to make sure that their boy is not interrupted before he has completed his reproductive chores. Which is of course what Mr. Surbeck and his colleagues say that this is all about. Their report in the latest edition of the journal, Current Biology, suggests that all this motherly meddling manages to boost the reproductive successes of their sons and thus gives a leg up to passing on the mother's own genetic material for generations to come.

[Music]

Part 3: Encore: Wayson Choy — A Memoir of Living and Almost Dying

Encore: Wayson Choy

JD: Wayson Choy was close to death. He had many close calls with his health throughout his lifetime. But those experiences also led him to meditate on his own mortality and to develop a closeness to that inevitable truth that many of us struggled to confront. Mr. Choy was rushed to hospital after suffering an acute asthma attack in 2001. He was placed in a medically induced coma during which he suffered a series of heart attacks. He survived and then underwent months of rehab only to suffer another heart attack four years later. He used his near-death experiences to form the basis of his 2009 book, "Not Yet: A Memoir of Living and Almost Dying." Last month, the award winning Canadian novelist did die. He was 80-years-old. Carol spoke with Mr. Choy back in 2009 after his memoir was published. Here is an encore presentation of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Wayson Choy welcome to the As It Happens studio.

WAYSON CHOY: Thank you.

CO: Now this is a fast ending book, and there's so much I want to talk to you about -- this memoir. But I just want to know first of all about your own health because this is of course about near-death experiences. How did you even have the energy to write this memoir?

WC: Well I had the energy because I learnt my lesson and that it would take time to come back you know full force or at least most of it. And being patient was one of the lessons one learns. You can live your life well or you can choose to live it Helter Skelter. And I guess my health came back mentally as much as anything. That was the pleasure knowing that I hadn't lost anything if at all. In fact I was pleased to hear when they did all those tests that the doctor said to me you know congratulations Mr. Choy all your faults are intact. [Laughter] So I thought okay I'm ready to go.

CO: But I recall some of the lines in the book where you referred that often your body wanted to get healthy and to do the right thing, go for walks, eat properly, and your mind would not allow it to.

WC: No, I spoil myself. I think the mind is more powerful often if you do more thinking than you should and you spoil yourself. I mean I'm the kind of person who would -- I'm not to eat steak and if someone says steak -- my knees quake -- and I'm asking for a knife and fork like a proper sharp knife. So I try to fight that now.

CO: The experience that you went through was first of all lung failure from a massive asthma attack. The doctors put you in a medically induced coma and then you had a heart attack. And you were months in the hospital -- in and out of consciousness, awareness, of people coming and going.

WC: Yes I was a month at St. Mike's and then a month in rehab in Riverdale. It was quite an experience because I had to relearn how to walk, talk, hold things. I was 11 days in that semi-comatose state. And three days you start losing you know the messages to from the brain to the muscles. So I was quite stunned to realize that I could be thinking, watching how to do things and be unable to do it although I could think it. It's very humbling.

CO: How conscious were you of the people in the room? You had numbers of guests coming in and out.

WC: Yeah. They were coming in and out like a dream. And like dreams, some things are suddenly so vivid. But I couldn't always tell the difference between the hallucinations and the reality of who was with me. But thank God there was one reality when I was struggling against the darkness and against being surrounded by strange voices that my goddaughter flew out from Arizona to be with me and she was asked to help. And she stood over me and calmed me down and they were able then to deal with the heart attack.

CO: At the same time of hearing and sensing familiar people, people you love, people who you are close to -- you were surrounded by all of these medical professionals who were trying to save your life. Did you trust them?

WC: I think I felt very good. First of all I thank Tommy Douglas because I'm one of those people who would say oh no I can't go broke. And of course it would be otherwise if it wasn't for our Medicare system. So I had peace of mind. I can't imagine living in a place where you are very ill and everything costs and you know it and you're going down the drain. I just felt comfortable. We live in a country where people care for each other in a real way. And I trusted the doctors.

CO: They were almost like angels coming and going -- many of them, weren't they?

WC: Yes. There was two in particular that was highlighted for me by other people and by the fact that they were around me when I was mostly conscious. And you know they're mentioned in the book. I don't know what makes an angel up, but I do know kindness keeps them in flight.

CO: There's chapters in this book in Not Yet where you actually recall bits of dialogue and memories from that coma state. And even when you're out of coma you were in and out of complete awareness. How could you do that? How could you recall things from that -- and how do you even trust what you're remembering?

WC: Well I think it's trust -- even when we're conscious that we're remembering the right thing. It's more complex of course when you are suffering some kind of illness or attack. I think I have a writer's mind and there's a part of me that would stand as an observer. In fact I said things like this to myself, oh watch what's happening -- now pay attention. And when I thought I might be dying I asked myself, will there be a heavenly choir? You know just like the movies as I remembered it especially as it came back to me in those melodramatic times. I can only tell you I feel lucky that that's the way my mind worked and it pleasured me even in the worst of moments that I could observe what's going on and that I was trusting the voices of my extended family members and the friends who were with me. They read to me. They spoke my name. They told me what was happening at school. I remember some of the details. But the whole sense of people who love you, who are there, and the doctors spoke gently -- I heard them speak sharply to each other but then they would turn to me and say Mr. Choy we're going to do this now. And I thought Oh yeah I'm still here.

CO: Were you already starting to shape it? Given that you're a storyteller and you have all those disciplines that you were even applying to listening to the conversations. Did you start to shape your own experience, your death experience, as narrative?

WC: I don't think I consciously do that but I think everyone does because the only way anyone whether you're a writer or not, have any understanding of their own lives -- that person, the human person, has to tell a story. Stories make up who we are. And I think for a writer that's even more intensely so. So I'm not surprised that I find beginnings, middles, and ends in moments -- that makes sense for me.

CO: This memoir is very layered and that your experience of this near-death experience where you actually came so close to dying twice really. At the same time you are exploring yourself. These experiences actually taught you -- took you on a journey to find out who you were.

WC: I was so delighted to know that in the end I was just myself again. It's the kind of exploration to say what does it mean to go through this? Why are you going through this? Or why did you survive? You know the sense of guilt that one can feel because so many people are devoted so much to keeping you alive -- and what was the reason. And I think I'm just amazed at how wonderful human connection can be of people who care and who make sense of just living. I'm not religious not in any traditional sense. And my hero are like June Harwood -- she knew that their condition was terminal but all our condition is terminal. And I don't mean that as a bad cliché, I mean that as a truth that one has to face at some point. And when I had to face it I realized I guess there's nothing beyond this but you know what? I'm going to try and stick around and if I'm surprise I'll be delighted.

CO: Your identity search though went even deeper than that. Just coming back to who you are and sort of resetting yourself. It took you into exploring who you were -- having a Chinese heritage and your identity as a Canadian beyond even the Tommy Douglas level. [Laughter]

WC: Yes. Oh I know. I know. I think...

CO: Why do you think that happened? Because you talk so much about the flashbacks to your childhood and your parents and your Chinese upbringing.

WC: I think because I've always wanted to know what it means to have roots that were traditional and that weren't as complex as mine seemed to be. You know I was born in Vancouver's Chinatown and I became the classic banana -- you know yellow on the outside and white on the inside. And never really being truly this or that as in the old days in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s people demanded of you. You didn't want to be half this and neither this nor that. But I discovered as I was going through what's been happening to me -- I am loved. That's when one belongs. And it transcends race and bloodlines. And in the end I realize you know all my books are about how family is who loves you. But transcending that I've discovered and as a gay man who thought that he may never have anybody to care for him in the end because I was warned of that from the Chinese of old Chinatown "you better get married -- et cetera et cetera -- who will take care of you?" And then I realized love has no rules. And knowing that I feel very powerfully. That's the beginning of how life made sense even if there is no hereafter. It made sense now.

CO: You mentioned being gay and being a bachelor and your concern that you would not have a family and in the end when you're very sick when you're needy you turn to those who are your blood who will take care of you.

WC: Well I have to say carefully I probably exploited them because...

CO: You're talking about this incredible circle of friends who love you as deeply as any blood relation could. These people were extraordinary.

WC: They are. But ordinary people do love that deeply -- other people that they have in their hearts. And I think we need to acknowledge that. You know my book is not sensational in the sense that I was a criminal, I was a drug addict, and I changed and found God. I was a person who was loved and understood more deeply what that meant. It made sense of my life. And I just jokingly say I exploit them I think what happened was there was a sense of exchange. Someone needs you, you're there, I needed them, they were there. We exchange a reality that I think is called human. And we mustn't forget that. You know when you read the newspapers today you think, doesn't anybody say a kind word to each other? And of course they do. And this is what my book is about -- about the world where people still have that kindness and expressions that don't depend on religion as much as something -- well you know what is essential is invisible but stories expose the invisible. And I think that's why I feel my life is meaningful.

CO: You had another very meaningful experience that you included in this story of Not Yet which is that not long after -- I guess some time after but not long enough to be completely healthy -- you had an opportunity to go to China to work on a documentary that you had wanted to do for so long. What was the meaning of that for you?

WC: Well it was called -- the theme was in search of Confucius. Following some traditional thinking, I took the assignment on partly because I could go to China and partly because everybody tells you "Oh you're Chinese -- you'll be so happy to be in China you'll find your roots and you'll know where you belong and all that." Well when I went back there, I admired the art, the history -- I certainly studied enough about Confucius to think that my father raised me based on many of his principles. But in the end it was like I'm from Chinatown. What am I doing here? I'm thinking of totem poles not you know dragons you know surrounding a giant pillar or these temples that are thousands of years old. I'm thinking of stories that relate to me personally that root me. And I don't belong, but I know I'm connected. Which is two different things. And I belong. I'm Canadian from Chinatown and I love that idea. And it made me more aware that citizenship was just in the mind. Wherever you are that is who you are.

CO: It's a slim volume -- it's a beautiful memoir but it's a very tight -- very controlled -- what you include in it. Why did you include the story of your visit to China? What was it that connected that to these near-death experiences?

WC: I think because my father was partly a scholar in his way and he used to quote these strange things to me -- these strange sayings -- that of course like all things we hear in childhood they make sense later on in your life and you go Oh my God my father knew that. And it connected because it's a universal idea that if we go back to our family members' homeland, there we will know something more about ourselves. Well I found out I knew only the history of my heritage. I didn't know the belonging part. And the belonging part is written as I live it. It isn't written because somebody says that you are Chinese and that's it. No, no, no, no, I'm human and that's even better.

CO: I love ghost stories. And you have one of the best ghost stories I've ever read in this book. I was just shivering while reading that. Do you want to just -- if you can just sum up that encounter and Mekong Restaurant in Chinatown.

WC: You know I didn't want it to happen first of all because I'm scientific. I'm logical. I'm a secular human being. And I went into a restaurant within the year I left the hospital and the hostess of the restaurant swore she saw two things with me: two beings -- two spirits. We came down finally to me saying do you mean there are two ghosts with me? And she said yes. And they are still here.

CO: She wanted you to get them out of her restaurant too. She was angry with you.

WC: Well she was upset because first of all they shouldn't be there. They were using up my energy to be here -- she said that was her explanation. And we should go into a temple and have an exorcism. But she said the reason they were here was because they love you very much and they don't want to leave you again so we must speak and seek some advice. And being a writer I thought you know I don't know what's happened to my dear from Victoria I've known her for five years -- she's never done this before.

CO: This is the lady in the restaurant saying this to you.

WC: Yes. And she just made me double take. Now what I discovered in the end was you know I'm colour-blind. I don't see colours the way other people do see it. And I accept that. Well I may be ghost blind too because quite frankly I had to finally write the sentence. [Exhales] There are ghosts everywhere but I don't believe in them -- but they haunt me. And I can't explain that paradox. I think like many things we're too puny a mind to know everything. And other people have to take a share of that knowing. And since it does no harm -- and what she meant well -- I thought I'll pay attention. I'll see what it means. And in the end, it meant that it's a continuation of what one might consider as the story of people who loved you in the past and who are still with you.

CO: There was a seer that she took you to -- Artemus -- that she took the story to and Artemus told you something quite extraordinary about where those ghosts had come from.

WC: Yes. And she didn't know me at all. And I had finally asked one last question, I said ask your friend Artemus where do these ghosts come from? Have they been here forever? How come you only see it now? And she came back with the answer, well Artemus says you almost died -- they came back with you. And I was stunned.

CO: That's the part that made me just go goose flesh.

WC: Yes. There was some things I didn't write you know. Artemus also told Victoria to say that there is a dark woman in my life that will bring me great honour and that I should pay attention to what will be happening thereafter. And two years later when I went back -- Victoria had forgotten that that was said. I wrote it in my diary. I looked it up in fact and sure enough. And I said no no -- there's been no dark lady and I thought of my friend Omita -- the blues singer -- and it wasn't her because it was supposed to be a small dark lady. And my friend Larry looked at me as said Wayson you were in Ottawa, you got a great honour from a dark lady. And I just stopped. I hadn't connected it.

CO: The Governor-General.

WC: Yes the Order of Canada.

CO: This memoir that you've written has taken you to new places and you've described in it how you actually saw your fiction different -- saw your storytelling differently after the experience. How did it change you as a writer -- this experience?

WC: I think you know after that first episode when I was in the midst of finishing "All That Matters" I went over the book again and I changed a word here, sentences there, a paragraph there, cut out this and that -- all to deepen what I understood. I thought the book was finished. And suddenly I realized no no, I'd only touched the surface. Do it once more. And I'm blessed with a good agent and publisher who were very patient. But I'm happy to say so much of what I do now is the same. But it hasn't changed. It's deepened.

CO: You had to go back into hospital four years later for a bypass surgery -- another traumatic experience. You came out of that -- you say you then really did start taking care of your health. Did you?

WC: Yes. I looked up some statistics I thought am I the only fool in the world? Turns out people who have had their first near-death experience etc -- they're really good for the first two years and then by the third year they get a little confident by the fourth year as it happened to me I became overconfident. And I lost taking the idea of taking care of myself and exercising. So I had the second heart attack. Now I have a personal trainer and I try to avoid steak and have just enough of it to please myself. I'm doing most things right but I'm also realizing I don't determine the end. Something like fate or luck would determine that. But you know it's wonderful to be here and realize it's a good life on most counts.

CO: When did the title "Not Yet" come to you?

WC: I only had to think I almost died and I'm still here. And then I think well I'll have to die sometime -- and the phrase came to me...but not yet.

CO: Not Yet: A Memoir of Living and Almost Dying. Wayson Choy thank you very much.

WC: Thank you.

JD: From 2009 that was an encore presentation of Carol's conversation with Canadian author Wayson Choy, after the publication of his near death account "Not Yet: A Memoir of Living and Almost Dying." Wayson Choyi did die last month. He was 80 years old.

[Music]

Coquitlam Rescue

JD: Two young children spent last night alone on a mountain near Coquitlam, British Columbia. This morning they were rescued. The six-year-old girl and her seven-year-old brother were hiking with their father when the three of them fell down a steep cliff on Burke Mountain. The father told the children to stay put while he made his way out of the dense forested area to get help. An emergency crew spent the night searching for the children and after the sun rose they spotted them. A rescuer lowered on a rope from a helicopter -- pulled them to safety. Coquitlam Search and Rescue manager Ian MacDonald spoke to reporters as the family recovered.

SOUNDCLIP

IAN MACDONALD: Well you can imagine that all of us you know we've got kids and it was really elation because this is very rugged terrain where they were lost. So we were just very very thankful that they were found alive and uninjured. The biggest immediate danger to them is in this area -- they were near a creek and we flew this area last night, tried to search by helicopter to try and get a quicker location on that. We couldn't see them last night but what we did see really worried us because there's dozens and dozens of waterfalls -- if they had gone down one of these waterfalls it would not have been a good thing. This was really kind of a miraculous rescue and really really positive outcome. We were so pleased because as I say that just from the terrain which we know because we work in this area and the terrain which we saw the creek last night we were really worried. So yeah it is a miracle. That's really important to stay put for search rescue -- search rescue is difficult enough without having a moving target. So the kids did a great job and the dad did a great job of telling them "I want you to stay here." And so that's how we found them. Our concern had been we didn't know that at the time. Our concern had been you know that the kids might have been in this very steep rugged creek drainage and that they may have gone either very east or west. And you know just trying to get a gentler way out if you like and then that would have made our job much more difficult. But fortunately, they did stay where they've been told to stay. My understanding is the dad is with the kids but they're over at the helicopter landing zone so I suspect that his reaction is pretty emotional. I know from the dad -- I don't know what he had in his backpack but I know that the backpack was lost along the way because our members recovered it, that's how we knew we were on the trail of these kids. It was kind of like Hansel and Gretel -- we found some breadcrumbs along the way and one of those was the backpack. So I don't know the exact contents but in speaking to the father I know that he did try and provide the kids with some warm clothes before he left.

JD: Ian MacDonald of Coquitlam Search and Rescue speaking to reporters earlier today about two children rescued from a British Columbian mountain.

[Music]

Climbing the Eiffel Tower

JD: What could possibly possess someone to climb up the side of the Eiffel Tower? Certainly not consideration for tourists in Paris because you know what happens when someone tries to climb up the side of the Eiffel Tower? The tower gets locked down and evacuated so the police and firefighters can rescue said climber. And that is going to ruin the day for all visitors who just wanted to make some memories and enjoy the view. Well earlier today the Parisian landmark was shut down when an unidentified man was spotted more than halfway up the thousand foot tower. Officials say that it was unclear how the man slipped past security barriers and made it so far up the tower before being noticed. According to a tower spokesperson the man entered the usual way and then he began his climb from the second floor. No one knows why, yet, except perhaps the man himself. Once he was spotted the tower was placed on lockdown and evacuated. That is standard procedure in the event of a climber, according to an official who spoke with AFP. So to all future visitors to La Dame de Fer -- just please take the elevator. S'il vous plait.

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May 20, 2019 Episode Transcript

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