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The AIH Transcript for April 19, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

JD: Tonight:

CO: In the byline of duty. 29-year-old journalist Lyra McKee devoted her career to writing about the tensions and the troubles in Northern Ireland. Last night, she was killed during a riot.

JD: Hands-off arms. A Colorado sheriff is so opposed to a new law allowing authorities to seize people's guns that he says he is willing to go to jail rather than enforce it.

CO: Spouting off. Jason Kenney says he'll turn off the taps if he doesn't get pipelines through British Columbia. But the leader of BC’s Green Party says Alberta's incoming premier should knock off the empty threats.

JD: Ogre and ogre again. Our annual Easter broadcast of Oscar Wilde's classic tale of a big man who learns to be a bigger man. “The Selfish Giant”, as read by Fireside Al.

CO: Guess who's swimming to dinner? Around the world, Catholics take things off the menu during Lent. But in Detroit, an old rule adds something one local priest really looks forward to: muskrat.

JD: And… taking things to the nest level. Around the world, people are glued to streaming video of an unusual, vaguely soap opera-ish romance between three eagles who have come together to raise three eaglets. “As It Happens”, the Friday edition. Radio that assumes their contract is Egale-ally binding.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Lyra McKee murder, Alberta election: BC, bald eagle parents

Lyra McKee murder

Guest: Matt Hughes

JD: In 2014, the journalist Lyra McKee published a letter to her 14-year-old self. She told her younger self things would get better after she came out as a lesbian. And she wrote about discovering journalism. She wrote, quote, "For the first time in your life, you will feel like you're good at something useful. You'll have found your calling." As a journalist, Lyra McKee wrote about the conflict and unrest in Northern Ireland. Yesterday, that conflict took her life. The 29-year-old was shot and killed during riots last night in Londonderry, also known as Derry. The Northern Ireland Police Service have suggested it was a terrorist act, and that a dissident republic group known as the New IRA is likely responsible. Matt Hughes is a technology journalist and a friend of Lyra McKee. We reached him in Liverpool, England.

CO: Matt, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

MATT HUGHES: Thank you. It means a lot hear you say that.

CO: How did you hear the news?

MH: At 20 minutes past midnight last night, my wife got a phone call from Sara, Lyra McKee’s partner. And it was without a doubt the worst phone call I've overheard in my life. And she said that Lyra had been shot, and she died. The blood ran out of me. It still doesn't feel real.

CO: Do you know what happened?

MH: As I understand it, Lyra had attended a riot in Derry. And she was stood behind a row of police vehicles. And someone in the crowd had a handgun and fired off 10 rounds towards the police vehicles. And one of them, unfortunately, hit lyra in the head. And there is a video of it circulating on Twitter. And it's the most gut-wrenching, horrendous video. I wish I never watched it. I'll never be able to see it. You can hear the gunshots, and this blood curdling scream that was from Sara, Lyra’s partner. After that, there wasn't enough time to get an ambulance. So they put her in the back of a police Land Rover, and they drove her to a hospital where unfortunately she died.

CO: It's just so awful, such a young woman, 29 years old. Do you know was she possibly targeted?

MH: No. It feels random. You know if she stood a foot to the left or foot to the right, this probably wouldn't have happened. We wouldn't be having this conversation right now. It's the worst kind of luck imaginable.

CO: Everything I'm reading about this young woman today indicates that she was extraordinary. She was somebody regarded by Forbes magazine as 30 Under 30 of the most interesting journalists to watch. She had a two-book deal signed with Faber and Faber. She was extraordinary. At the same time, it seems the sort of person who would be right there on the frontlines. Can you tell us a bit about her, first of all, as a journalist?

MH: What made Lyra remarkable was her tenacity. She was cocky enough to think she could solve cases that had gone cold before she was born. When our friendship started, she was working on a project uncovering the circumstances of the death of a gentleman called Reverend Robert Bradford, who was a British MP who was assassinated in the early 80s. And she was determined to get to the bottom of it. People paid monthly recurring sums just so she could look into this case because people believed in lyra. And she also covered the Northern Irish conflict and the repercussions in a way that I don't think anyone else could do. And certainly in the way that anyone else has. One of the best pieces she ever wrote was for Mosaic, and it was called “The Suicide of the Ceasefire Babies”. And it was about why are men in Northern Ireland killing themselves after the peace process? And she was able to tell stories of mental illness and fractured societies in a way that was human. It was compassionate. And that's because Lyra was a compassionate person.

CO: And because she was eight years old when the Good Friday Agreement was signed back there in 1998, she wasn't so much a child of the troubles as she was of that agreement. And so how did that colour her way of looking at the conflict in Northern Ireland?

MH: I think she saw the peace processes as exactly that: a process. And she saw as a continuing story that affected people on very, very personal levels. So when she approached her journalism on the troubles, it wasn't about the history, it wasn't about the dates, it was about the people.

CO: What was she like as a person?

MH: She was one of my best mates. I first met her when I was 23. I'd been doing journalism for a year, and she had already accomplished these amazing bio lines and profiles and features. And I kind of saw her as almost like a rock star. And I looked up to her. And she was a mentor, and I kind of felt like I was a little kid learning to play guitar from Mick Jagger, you know? And so as our friendship grew, she started to look upon me as almost like a younger brother. She counselled me through heartbreak. She helped me with my career. When I got married last year, I insisted she was one of my groomspeople. And she held my hand over the morning. She'd had a whisky with me to calm my nerves. She tied my tie. You know she was just this bright personality.

CO: Just a remarkable young woman. Finally Matt, what is it that you’ll miss the most about her?

MH: I'll miss her hugs. She gave really good hugs. I'll miss speaking to her, to be honest. She was this voice that I could always turn to. I just want to add one point.

CO: Sure.

MH: I have been speaking so a lot of Lyra’s friends. And you know when there's a tragedy, even as you’re processing it, you try to see what good can come out. And there's an optimism that you know the peace process was 21 years ago. You know a lot of the terrorist groups disarmed, but there are remnants. And there's been a tacit level of support from some parts of the community. And there's a hope that people will see this event for the horror that it is. And those that knows something about the people who kill there, about the groups are still operating, Will say something. And we can hopefully get these guns off the street. We can hopefully get these people behind bars or in a position where they can’t hurt anyone again.

CO: Matt, I really appreciate that you would tell us about lyra, and introduce her to many people who wouldn't otherwise know anything about this remarkable young woman. Thank you.

MH: It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

CO: Bye.

JD: Matt Hughes is a technology journalist and friend of Lyra McKee — a journalist who was shot and killed during riots in Londonderry, Northern Ireland last night. We reached Mr. Hughes in Liverpool, England. And we have more on Ms. McKee and her work on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Piano]

Alberta election: BC

Guest: Andrew Weaver

JD: Jason Kenney says he's ready for a fight with the neighbour. The United Conservative Party leader has promised that his first act upon being sworn in as Alberta's premier will be to enact legislation allowing him to, quote, "turn off the taps" on oil and gasoline going to British Columbia. The law is meant to pressure BC's NDP government to reverse its opposition to pipelines pumping bitumen from the oilsands in Alberta to the British Columbia coast. The NDP, however, doesn't have a majority. It's holding onto power with the help of the Greens. Andrew Weaver is the BC Green Party leader. We reached him in Victoria.

CO: Mr. Weaver, Jason Kenney has made it clear that he's going after the perceived enemies of Alberta. Are you one of them?

ANDREW WEAVER: [laughs] No. I'm a very proud Canadian, and I'm sure that a lot of the bluster that we heard in that campaign will have to temper as he recognizes that as a premier, you have to do things within the Canadian law. And people expect you to govern, not to bluster.

CO: But he certainly doesn’t seem to be putting the elbows down, or the dukes down. I mean he has said clearly that he's willing to talk. He's willing to hear out those other parties like in BC. But in the end, if they get in the way of what Alberta needs to do, it's going to be ugly.

AW: Well, the issue is this: British Columbia has taking the very reasonable position that we believe that diluted bitumen — a substance that frankly nobody needs — is something that we would rather not have in our pipelines and on our ocean because of the potential issue with respect to cleanup when a spill occurs. And so you know a lot of the bluster would go away if Alberta and Canada were honest to people here in our country. And the honest statement is that some of the most expensive oil in the world is in the Alberta oil sands. The reason why Kinder Morgan divested itself was because the market for such heavy oil is tight. And we know that companies like Shell have moved away or are moving away from the oil sands, or in fact oil in general.

CO: Ok, in the meantime, whatever else is coming down that pipe, he is threatening to turn off the taps of oil to your province — to turn off the fuel to British Columbia — if you get in the way. What do you say to that?

AW: Well again, it's more bluster. And I guess it serves him well as he's trying to show how strong he is as a leader in a campaign.

CO: It's not bluster, it's legislation. And it was legislation that was passed by Rachel Notley of the NDP. And now it's something that he might enact. So I think it's gone beyond the bluster, has it not?

AW: It is bluster. If Mr. Kenny were to do that, he would open the people of Alberta to the mother of all liability class-actions from the province of British Columbia. It's quite clear constitutionally you can't do that. And it's even more so is that pipe not only comes to British Columbia, but it also feeds the Washington State refineries. I would suspect that NAFTA and the requirement of continued energy exports would have something to say. I suspect the oil companies would have something to say. Back in the day, Alberta had had a plan to use the wealth of today to position itself for tomorrow. That was through the creation of the Alberta Heritage Fund — much like Norway has done. And the goal at the time was to recognize that we shouldn't spend everything now, but we should position for tomorrow. Unfortunately, government after government of Alberta have squandered away the resources and the wealth. And now they're looking for others who are moving away to somehow sacrifice their principles and values because of what I would argue is irresponsible fiscal management in a company and irresponsible resource development.

CO: Okay, but I think right now the whole point is trying to get their product to market. And I think this is what Rachel Notley said to British Columbia. Jason Kenney is saying the same thing. That the Alberta economy is in trouble, the loss of jobs is key to that, and they need British Columbia to help them. British Columbia is thriving, your economy is booming, people are employed. They're not employed in Alberta, and they're saying hey British Columbia, help us out. Help us get our product to market, so that we can be have a strong economy too. I think that's the pitch, is it not?

AW: Do you know why we are the strongest economy in the country? It's because we have diversified. It's because we haven't gone all-in into one sector. It's because we recognize, and it has been the BC green agenda through Clean BC that the foundation of any strong vibrant and sustainable economy is innovation. And you want to nurture that. When you go all-in into one sector, and you argue that that one sector is the only engine for your economy, you end up with rhetoric like we're seeing, boom and bust cycles like we're seeing, and to all the criticism that people can heap on Rachel Notley. She did take steps to diversify the Alberta economy. And the Alberta economy is on the rise. I would suggest to Alberta that in fact it behooves them now to position themselves for tomorrow not by tripling down on the economy of the last century, but by recognizing that we do need oil. There's no doubt, but where the growth is is through innovation it's the value added. Where's the petrochemical industry, the upgrading, the refining. Those are the products we need. You know if there was such a massive market for Alberta oil, why is it we only had four — count them — four tankers into the Westridge terminal to take down the bitumen offshore?

CO: One of the areas that Mr. Kenney is going after is that he believes that there are foreign-funded environmentalists who are obstructing their growth and their oil. And he has named them as you know. And it's the David Suzuki Foundation, Lead Now, implying that there might be an American conspiracy to keep Alberta's oil landlocked. He has put together a committee that's supposed to be looking at that. So how serious are those threats?

AW: Sounds very Trumpian, doesn't it? And, in fact, there's nothing like a good foreign conspiracy theory to deflect away from the troubles and realities in your own backyard. So you know it would be nice to see those wandering donors going up and down the streets in British Columbia. Fact is it's just a good old conspiracy theory that kind of deflects away from the real issues at hand.

CO: So you're saying there is no U.S. money, there's no American funds that have gone into the effort to stop the Alberta oil sands from developing?

AW: Obviously there are donors all over the place who give to all sorts of people. I'm far more concerned about the foreign money that's on the oil side. And I’ll tell you this as a legislator in BC…

CO: I want to make this clear you're not denying that there are foreign funds that go into the environment?

AW: Well, I don't know where every dollar comes from in the world. What I'm saying is as a legislator in the BC legislation, I get lobbied all the time. I would be far more concerned about the amount of money, effort, and lobbying coming from multinational oil companies into Canada which have no base here than I would about a few ragtag environmental organizations. I look at our party's success in the province of British Columbia. Frankly, it's been despite organizations like Lead Now and others, who very much like to choose winners and losers in any riding. And I can tell you when they are always worried about vote-split narratives they basically go on and tell everyone to vote for the NDP.

CO: Alright, we'll leave it there. Mr. Weaver, Thank you.

AW: A pleasure. Thank you.

JD: Andrew Weaver is the leader of the British Columbia Green Party. We reached him in Victoria.

[Music: Country]

Bald egle parents

Guest: Ally Hirschlag

JD: In a nest along the Mississippi River in Fulton, Illinois, an unusual family is living in bliss. They are three Bald Eagles — two males and a female — raising three eaglets together. And a lot of people are watching them do it, because of a live video feed that has been set up by the Upper Mississippi River National Wildlife Refuge. Ally Hirschlag knows all about them. Ms. Hirschlag is a writer who wrote their story for the National Audubon Society. We reached Ms. Hirschlag in Brooklyn, New York.

CO: Ally, this is quite the blended family.

ALLY HIRSCHLAG: Isn't it?

CO: What are they up? Last time you checked, what's going on in that nest?

AH: Ever since I wrote the piece, actually while I was researching the piece even, I've had them up on my desktop almost all the time. It's just sort of a it's a comfort to have them there. I'm not sure why. But I'm looking at them right now, and one of the funniest things I've seen is happening. One of the birds is sort of guarding the babies from a freak sort of windstorm, but his back end is facing the camera, so his tail and his back feathers are all blown out, and it's very, very funny shot.

CO: Can you just describe for us the relationship between these three birds as you understand it?

AH: So from what I understand, the current birds in the nest have all mated together at one point or another. So they're in an actual intimate relationship together. And they all share parenting duty. They all feed the babies. They all sit on the nest. They guard the babies. It’s very civilized.

CO: So this love triangle is working out very well?

AH: It seems to be. And it's been going on for quite some time. And it's gone through two different female mates. The first female mate that these two males had together perished in an attack in 2017.

CO: This is what the eagle you called Hope?

AH: Yes, yes.

CO: Okay let's go back to the beginning, because originally there was one male, one female eagle that were nesting together, right?

AH: Correct. That was Valor I and Hope.

CO: Okay. And how did that relationship go?

AH: So they both showed up I believe it was in 2013. I think they'd been seen a little bit before then, but it was very clear that they were together and at this nest in 2013. And they had babies together — eaglets. And Valor I didn't seem to quite understand his role as a parent. He just wasn't that committed to it. He would sit on the nets were maybe 10 minutes and then leave before the mom came back. And Hope seemed to be having a lot of trouble with him.

CO: She was pretty frustrated with Valor.

AH: Yeah, as one might imagine. And I don't know if they can have actual squabbles about it, but she did something rather pragmatic, and she found a new mate, who seemed to be much better at being a parent. The next year, there was the second male eagle on the nest with her.

CO: Who you call Valor II.

AH: Right, exactly. I'm not sure how that happened. The audience who was watching the webcam at that time, there was a there was a vote on what the original eagle's name should be. And they had Valor I and Hope. So I'm not sure why they just decided to go with Valor II for the second eagle, but that's how it turns out.

CO: Now, Valor II showed up, and joined in. And was he a better mate for Hope?

AH: Much better. He actually seemed to get it. He was very good at you know doing all of the gestational and once the babies were born taking care of them, feeding them, protecting them. But Valour I never left. He sort of was just around. Like he didn't do any of the parental duties, at least not at first. But he just hung around, and Valor II didn't scare him off. Like most predator birds don't have two males that can subsist in one intimate relationship like that, at least not for long. And then within a couple of years, he was seen suddenly being brought back into the fold, and taking on parental responsibility because I think he maybe just got it by watching Valor II do it.

CO: Hope, as you point out, Hope was killed horribly. She was attacked by other eagles, is that right?

AH: Yes.

CO: So she was gone, and Valor I and Valor II, did the boys still hang out with each other?

AH: Yeah. The two males stayed, and fended off the marauding eagles, and took care of the babies until they fledged. Just two males. They didn't have a female at that time.

CO: Wonderful!

AH: It's so strange. But yeah, the next year that's when Starr showed up.

CO: Did Starr seem reluctant to get involved in an ongoing situation?

AH: That's interesting. I don't know. I mean based on what I have heard from the stewards is that she was doing all the things that birds do in the beginning of their courting. You know they help sort of put together a home, and she was moving things around the nest, and a funny sort of anecdote is that the male the male would put a stick or something in one place, and she'd pick it up and move it somewhere else.

CO: [laughs] As we do.

AH: As we do. [laughs]

CO: Now, do you know whether it's unusual for these kinds of threesomes among bald eagles?

AH: It is unusual. At least it's unusual for us to see it. One thing that I've heard from the scientists that I spoke to is that who knows what's going on behind closed doors or in places where humans can't get to. But at least in terms of what people have observed, it's very rare to see three bald eagles — or any predators really together. What's even more rare is to see a trio that is a true intimate partnership.

CO: On this show, we have done other stories about different kinds of unusual — we think unusual — relationships between birds and animals, same-sex vultures who hatched an abandoned egg together, two males. But perhaps these stories are not so unusual. I mean we make assumptions about the animal world, don't we? That maybe we don't observe it as closely as we might?

AH: Exactly. And I think you know these are mysterious creatures, and what we see is just a very small snippet of their behaviour and what they do. So to have this view is so wonderful because it's really showing the world that like there's a lot more that's possible. And there's a lot that sort of emulates what we do.

CO: It's a great story, Ally. And thanks for telling it. And also, we will give people the links they need to go and watch this livestream because it sounds fascinating. Thank you.

AH: Oh wonderful. Thank you.

JD: Ally Hirschlag wrote about the bald eagle family for the National Audubon Society. We reached her in Brooklyn. And we have more on this story — including a link to the livestream. We’re tricky though. We put it on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar and synth]

LR: Captain High Liner

JD: As you have heard of late, we at "As It Happens" have been doggedly pursuing the corporate decisions behind the new, and some would say improved, Captain High Liner. The character has lost his hat and turtleneck, and gained a powerful allure. High Liner says he's, quote, "the same trustworthy Captain, but now people see him in a new light." But it seems our listeners are split down the middle as to whether that new light is something they can get on board with.

CO: Okay. On Facebook, Robert Mark McCondach commented, "More like Captain 'Hi Daddy'". Laurie Paxton wrote, "Triangle Trout just got more appealing!!" And Sarah Ellis is also hungry, she wrote. "Never have I believed in fish sticks more."

JD: Collen Unrau regarded the captain's new visage with awe, saying "I can't wait to see the Queer Eye episode for this makeover." But many of you regarded his transformation with suspicion — like Anne Reid, who asked, "Bit of Botox?"

CO: Gerhard Cochrane tried to make this regional, commenting on Facebook that, "He looks like he moved from St. John's to Calgary."

JD: Some of you also compared the new captain to celebrities — including Kurt Russell, Bradley Cooper, and the "Trivago guy". And some of you even compared him, oddly enough, to... me. Full disclosure, though: Like Billy, I've never been to sea.

CO: Okay, it might have something to do with your departure. Finally, kudos to "MJW" on Twitter, who spun a compelling story synopsis out of the new look. He wrote, "The son of the original Captain kinda looks like a hipster lumbersexual. All he needs is a plaid shirt. He looks like he lets the old man do the fishing while he sails a desk at head office." He does add that he 'likes both looks, though".

JD: And there you have it. Your opinions on Captain High Liner: the once salty, now sultry, sea dog.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Part two: gun law sheriff, Detroit muskrat

Gun law sheriff

Guest: Steve Reams

JD: Lawmakers in Colorado say a new gun law is going to save lives. But some state law-enforcement officials say they'd rather get locked up than enforce it. It's called the "red flag" bill. And it allows a family member, police officer, or anyone else close to a gun owner to petition a judge to temporarily seize the gun owner’s firearms. Although those guns could only be taken if a person is deemed to be a risk to themselves or others. Many gun rights proponent see the law as a violation of the second amendment. Steve Reams is the Sheriff of Weld County. He'd rather go to jail than enforce the law. We reached Sheriff Reams in Greeley, Colorado.

CO: Sheriff Reams, your job is to enforce the law. So why won't you enforce this one?

STEVE REAMS: Well, this law was written in a way that causes me to choose between enforcing a law, or violating provisions of the Constitution. And it's easy to say law enforcement should just be blind enforcers, but when something is obviously an affront to the United States Constitution and the Colorado Constitution, it puts me in a spot where I have to determine what I'll do. And my decision has been that this law is not constitutional.

CO: And you're willing to get locked up for making this point, is that right?

SR: Yes, ma'am. This law puts me in a decision making point of again violating someone's constitutional rights, or potentially violating a judge's order if one of these red flag orders is to be issued. And the penalty that can go along with violating a judge's order could be confinement in my own jail.

CO: In your own jail. You could be locked up in any place where you normally incarcerate people?

SR: That's correct.

CO: Okay. It's called a “red flag” bill. And this law would allow a judge to order someone's guns to be taken away temporarily if they are deemed a risk to themselves or to others, and is to be used only in extreme cases. What is wrong with that?

SR: Well, if the bill truly said that, that might not be as bad. But that's not really the way that the bill reads. It's titled an extreme risk protection order. But it says a person has to be a significant risk to themselves or others by being in possession or having possession of a firearm. The problem with the whole setup is that mental health treatment is never addressed on a bill. And the person who is the recipient of one of these orders isn't allowed to be present at that first hearing. They don't even know the first hearing is taking place. So they don't get a chance to defend themselves. And that's where the true problem in this bill lies.

CO: But it is up to a judge, right? This is not an arbitrary thing where you march in and you take the guns away from somebody who some complaint that a person might be a risk to themselves or to others. This is in cases where there is suspicion of mental illness where someone might become violent. The idea is that they should not be able to keep their guns for a temporary period. So where does the problem come in for you?

SR: Again, I think it's in the actual text of the bill. The term significant risk is never defined. If it was defined as all of those things that you just said, yes, potentially there would be more merit to this bill. But significant risk is different to you, it's different to me, it's different to a lot of people. And so the fact that you and I could have differing political views, this bill could be used to weaponize our argued political beliefs. You know you could go out and say he's a significant risk, or she's a significant risk because they don't agree with me on a particular topic and we had a heated argument. It doesn't necessarily mean that that person's violent.

CO: But if there's any risk that this person could harm somebody or themselves, I mean perhaps it airs on the side of well maybe take the weapons away until we know for sure. But isn't that a good idea if it saves a life?

SR: I don't believe it is, and I've said that many times before. Because when a bill can fairly easily be misused against other people, you know the argument of well we were just erring on the side of caution becomes a dangerous, slippery slope. And there's a reason we have a second amendment. There's a reason we have gun rights in the United States. And this bill is wholly effective at going out and trampling on those gun rights. And it doesn't address the true problem, which is if that person has a significant risk, let's deal with the person. Let's figure out how to get that person treatment. But that's not something our state legislature had an appetite for at that particular point.

CO: But in the meantime, take away the tool that might actually do harm maybe?

SR: Another problem with this bill, you can take away the firearm, but you leave the person in place. And there is no guarantee that you're collecting every firearm, and there's no guarantee that you're collecting everything that they could use as a weapon of violence. And so it's a very short-sighted view of how weapons get utilized in violent encounters. And quite frankly, it's a Denver and Boulder view in the state of Colorado versus a rural Weld County view, where weapons are utilized almost daily in many parts of people's lives.

CO: This does sound like a conflict of rights, from a Canadian point of view. On one side, the right to bear arms, other side the right to be protected from harm. Wouldn't it be the right to be protected from harm would be more important than someone's constitutional right to bear arms?

SR: Well, I can tell you that there are plenty of times that people use their right to bear arms to protect them from being harmed. I live in a 4,000 square mile County. You know law enforcement isn't just seconds away. So there are many occasions where people in Weld County use firearms for their own self-protection. So the argument would be by disarming those individuals, you're actually placing them at greater risk than increasing their safety.

CO: If you have a family member, someone close to was suicidal or someone violent in the family that might threaten the woman, a spouse, wouldn't you as a family member want to see that gun taken away?

SR: You know, I can't put myself in that situation because I guess every situation is a little different. But I think what I would want is to see that person get help. I mean I grew up in a family of domestic violence. My stepfather committed violence against my mother, and taking the firearm out of that situation would never have made that any better. The fact that firearm is what my mom used as a balancing tool to make sure that my stepfather didn't take her life. So no, I don't look at it that way. I look at it in a situation where the person who's acting out in violence needs to be treated and dealt with.

CO: Well, from a Canadian point of view, isn't it a good idea to have both help for mental illness and control of those who have firearms if they are violent?

SR: Yes, I do think that's a great idea. And, in fact, I supported amending this bill to focus on mental health. And once a person was deemed to be mentally ill or deemed to have a mental health problem, then we could talk about firearms and removing their access to firearms. I think everyone agrees that mentally ill persons should not have access to firearms. The problem is this bill doesn't prove that someone is mentally ill. It just proves that someone else believes there are a significant risk by a definition that isn't established.

CO: Sheriff Reams, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SR: Thank you.

CO: Bye-bye.

SR: Bye-bye.

00:34:27 - SPEAKER: M4

JD: Steve Reams is the Sheriff of Weld County. We reached him in Greeley, Colorado. We have more on this story on our website. That again is: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Carole Cadwalladr

JD: Ever since journalist Carole Cadwalladr first exposed how Cambridge Analytica harvested Facebook user data to influence the Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump, she's been demanding a lot of answers from big tech companies. She wants them to release the information that could help explain how vulnerable voters have been targeted with false information on their platforms, and where the shadowy money that pays for all that fake news is coming from. This week at a TED Talk in Vancouver, she took direct aim at the leaders of those companies — who were also there at the conference. Here's part of her talk.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROLE CADWALLADR: And that is why I am here to address you directly, the gods of Silicon Valley. Mark Zuckerberg, and Sheryl Sandberg, and Larry Page, and Sergey Brin, and Jack Dorsey, and your employees, and your investors too. Because 100 years ago, the biggest danger in the Southwells coal mines was gas — silent, and deadly, and invisible. That's why they sent the canaries down first to check the air. And in this massive global online experiment that we are all living through, we in Britain are the canary. We are what happens to a Western democracy when a hundred years of electoral laws are disrupted by technology. Our democracy is broken, our laws don't work anymore, and it's not me saying this. It's our parliament. This technology that you have invented has been amazing. But now, it's a crime scene, and you have the evidence. To have any hope of stopping this from happening again, we have to know the truth. Because what the Brexit vote demonstrates is that liberal democracy is broken, and you broke it. This is not democracy. Spreading lies in darkness, paid for with illegal cash from God knows where. It's subversion, and you are accessories to it.

[Sound: Clapping]

CC: Our parliament has been the first in the world to try to hold you to account, and it's failed. You are literally beyond the reach of British law. And what you don't seem to understand is that this is bigger than you, and it's bigger than any of us. And it is not about left, or right or leave or remain, or Trump or not. It's about whether it's actually possible to have a free and fair election ever again. Because as it stands, I don't think it is. And so my question to you is is this what you want? Is this how you want history to remember you? As the handmaidens to authoritarianism that is on the rise all across the world.

JD: Journalist Carole Cadwalladr at this week's TED conference in Vancouver. After that talk, she told the Globe and Mail that Canada's new laws, aimed at stopping meddling in election campaigns, won't be effective. She told the Globe, quote: "Show me it works, because for everything they've come up with, there's been a workaround."

[Music: Folk]

Emma Thompson

JD: In London, UK today, police dismantled the pink boat that's been the centrepiece of the climate protest that's been going on in the British capital since Monday. It's named for murdered Honduran environmentalist, Berta Caceres. And the boat was stationed right in the middle of the famed junction Oxford Circus — where it became the epicentre of the so-called Extinction Rebellion: a demonstration demanding government and business leaders do more to fight climate change. The crowd has reportedly been peaceful and polite. Nevertheless, police have arrested 682 people thus far. Earlier today, actress Dame Emma Thompson stood on the pink boat, in solidarity with protesters. Here's what she told a BBC reporter.

SOUNDCLIP

EMMA THOMPSON: Unfortunately, sometimes I have to fly. But I don't fly nearly as much as I did because of my carbon footprint, and I plant a lot of trees.

BBC REPORTER: Do you fly economy to reduce your carbon footprint.

ET: I bloody don’t, no. I’m far too old for that.

BBC REPORTER: You would leave like less than one carbon ton rather than three.

ET: I just have to plant more trees.

BBC REPORTERF: Do you understand hypocrisy in that? Why some people may be annoyed with that?

ET: Oh, I absolutely do. And I also have to say back to you that one of the things that has happened consistently over the decades I've been protesting about this, and and flying economy by the way whenever I did fly, is that it's always turned back on the individual. You are the one who flies, you are the one that drives. Everyone has been asking for clean energy for decades. This question and this demand has been made for decades, and it has been ignored for decades. So where is the hypocrisy? If I could fly cleanly, I would.

JD: That was Dame Emma Thompson speaking to the BBC, at the Extinction Rebellion protest in London today.

[Music: Folk]

Detroit muskrat

Guest: Timothy Laboe

JD: Lent is a time for reflection, and for prayer, a time of abstinence — a time to do with less. But this Good Friday, when Detroit-area Catholics sit down to eat, they'll have an extra option on the menu. Thanks to a special, centuries-old dispensation, local followers of the faith are able to dine on muskrat. Father Timothy Laboe is the Dean of Studies at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit, which is where we reached him.

CO: Father Laboe, how many people are actually going to chow down on muskrat this Easter weekend?

TIMOTHY LABOE: I have no idea this Easter weekend. A lot of the muskrat dinners in our area take place in like January and February. But for those that really like it, you can never have it too often.

CO: But muskrat, the idea of having it isn't that it’s something you celebrate Easter with. It's a Lenten thing, right?

TL: Yeah, at least that's the tradition that's mostly associated with it. You know in some of the harsh winters when some of the earlier European settlers were in this part of Michigan, it was one of the few things that they had to eat. And so it kind of grew out of that for the Catholics in this area that couldn't eat meat on Fridays, and that could be near starving conditions certain times during the year.

CO: And where did the dispensation come from? They actually got permission to eat muskrat, even though you're not. But you just abstain from meat during that part of the Lenten observation. They got permission to eat muskrat.

TL: Yeah. And you know there's no real official document as to where that came from. Father Gabriel Richard was the local priest for Detroit and the Monroe area where I'm from back in the early eighteen hundreds. And the tradition is that he either lobbied for it or gave it himself because you know this was sort of a frontier area at that time. And it just was something that persisted through the years. And so as far as the church goes, when you have an a memorial custom in a certain area you know it can take the force of law if you will. And so because this was just such a longstanding thing to be able to muskrat on Fridays, it just is something that persisted and is continued.

CO: Now, It’s one thing to be able to eat muskrat when you're hungry and you need something. It’s another thing to volunteer to do it.

[laughs]

CO: Okay, you tell us because you've had it. What is it what is muskrat like?

TL: You know, everybody has their opinion, because some people say it tastes like rabbit. Some people say it tastes like duck. I don't think it tastes like that. I would just say muskrat tastes like muskrat. It's got its own taste. If you really want to know what it tastes like, you got to try it.

CO: Well in fairness to the poor muskrat, it's not really a rat. It is a rodent. And it has that long tail, but it's a marsh-dwelling rodent. So how would you describe the muskrat?

TL: You know, it's small, it's probably… gosh probably six, eight inches long, you know not with the tail. But it's kind of a cross between a beaver and a rat. So yeah, you know especially when it's cooked, it looks like the animal that it is, obviously without the fur and just the meat there, which is why some people really are not interested and biting into it.

CO: Uh huh. Is there a way to prepare it that you like?

TL: Well, I've never prepared it myself. The dinner that I go to at one of the parishes down in the Monroe County area, they probably cook 900 muskrat for this dinner. And they have to remove the musk glands from the back legs. And so they clean it like two or three times before they even cook it. And then they parboil it with like onions and garlic for you know four hours or so, then they fry it. That's how they prepare it.

CO: So it turns into kind of finger food after all that processing?

TL: I'm not going to compare the meat to chicken, but you know just like when you prepare a whole chicken the meat is still on the bones. That's what it looks like when it's on your plate. And because it's a rather small animal, you know you've got to kind of just dig into it and get what you can you know from the bone.

CO: I don't know. It sounds more like an act of penance more than a relief from abstinence.

TL: [laugh] Well yeah, In fact, a former bishop here — Bishop Povich — said you know anybody that eats muskrat does an act of penance worthy of the greatest sins.

[laughs]

TL: But that's one man's opinion. I take a different approach because I really like it. I think it's great.

CO: And where do they get their muskrats from?

TL Well you know, I asked where they got them for this year's dinner. And I guess you know people still today trap them. That's one of the reasons why it was such an important foodstuff. It was just so plentiful. But they get them from there. I've heard in past years getting them from the Upper Peninsula or from Ohio. I never have to order them, I just eat them, so there's enough muskrat for everybody.

CO: Well, I don't know if you've convinced any of our listeners to break out muskrat for dinner, so we'll leave it there. We'll take your word for it. And it's great to talk to you, Father Laboe. Thank you.

TL: Thank you so much.

CO: I hope you have a happy Easter.

TL: Ok. You too, Carol. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

TL: Bye now.

JD: Father Timothy Laboe is the Dean of Studies at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit. You can find more on this story on our website.

[Music: hip-hop]

LR: Jeff leaving

JD: Here on "As It Happens", we tell you stories big and small. Stories that make you laugh, or cry, or wonder why we called that cabbage farmer in the first place.

CO: Yesterday, however, we told you about a story that hits entirely too close to home. After eight years, my beloved co-host Jeff Douglas is leaving the show.

JD: But I am not leaving the CBC.

CO: That's right. That’s what he tells us. This June, Jeff is moving back to the east coast, to become the new host of "Mainstreet" — the CBC afternoon show in Halifax. And, as you can imagine, I have some mixed feelings about that... Good on “Mainstreet”, good on Halifax, not so good for me, and not so good for “As It Happens”, who will miss him terribly. But others felt the same way. I think Linda Lippert summed up what most of us were feeling when she wrote simply, "Nooooooooo!!!!!!!" Others, like Deanna Mathewson of Victoria BC, focused on the good times. She writes, "Jeff, you have provided so many smiles, much learning and plenty of LOLs over the years and I couldn't not let you know how influential and magnetic you have been for me, and doubtless many, many other listeners." Nobdy warned me we were going to do this, okay. There were well wishes too — especially from Jeff's fans on the East Coast. Like Lisa Dobson, who writes "This is Nova Scotia's gain!! Cannot wait to hear him on Main Street. Congrats Jeff, welcome back." And Leila Marshy is supportive, if maybe a little resigned. She writes, "If Jeff's mom is happy, well then, I am happy, too." And I agree with Lilly on that one. But I think Lynn Winther put it best when she told us on Facebook that she will miss you — and that "maybe a move to Nova Scotia is in order." Ok, I got through that.

JD: Thank you. And I can't say enough to everyone who did write in with you kind words. It was very humbling to hear that, and I really appreciate it. So thank you and absolutely to anyone considering that move to Halifax — you're welcome. More than welcome. Including you, Carol.

[Music: Jazzy guitar]

Part three: Mother’s grave found, Reading: The selfish giant

Climbers obit

JD: They were known as some of the best climbers in the world. Earlier this week, Austrians David Lama and Hansjorg Auer and American Jess Roskelley were attempting a route in Banff National Park that had only been climbed once before — when an avalanche hit. Now Parks Canada says all three are presumed dead. Climbers from all over the world are stunned and heartbroken — including Brandon Pullan, a Canmore resident, and the editor-in-chief of the climbing magazine Gripped. He knew all three climbers, and saw them recently when they passed through Canmore. Mr. Pullan spoke to CBC Calgary's "The Homestretch" yesterday.

SOUNDCLIP

BRANDON PULLAN: They're all very famous climbers from around the world.

DOUG DIRKS: Brandon, how could something like this happen to such experienced climbers?

BP: You know, that's going to be something that the climbing industry, friends, and families are going to be talking about for a long time. Mistakes happen. These guys had a good eye when it came to risks. Their risk tolerance is very high, but they were known for backing off dangerous routes. This might just be bad luck, wrong place, wrong time, and I in no way do I think that they made the right call, or I don't think anybody would say that. It's just one of those things in the climbing world where mistakes happen.

DD: Yeah, what about climbing in Banff national park at this time of year as we're making the transition from winter to spring conditions, and the snow may be unstable.

BP: This has historically been a good time for this type of climbing, where climbers can go up and climb snow, ice, and rock. And so you know climbing in Banff is dangerous, but it's not uncommon for climbers to go up to these routes this time of year.

DD: When three very experienced, well-known climbers, and very successful ones having tackled so many difficult routes around the world. When you lose them in an in an avalanche like this, what's the conversation like in the climbing community?

BP: Shock, awe, sadness. I had the opportunity to touch base with people from all around the world today, and everybody's just kind of in shock. And right now honestly nobody is saying they shouldn't have been there. They made the wrong choice. It's just people thinking back and trying to focus on sending good thoughts and vibes out to their friends and family.

JD: That's Canmore climber Brandon Pullan speaking to CBC Calgary's Doug Dirks, about three world-renowned climbers who are presumed dead after an avalanche in Banff.

[Music: Piano]

Mother’s grave found

Guest: Jack Anawak

JD: Jack Anawak was only a child when his mother was sent south for health treatment. She was one of hundreds of Inuit people who were flown long distances without their families for medical treatment — including treatment for tuberculosis. And like many who left, Mr. Anawak's mother never came home. For decades, now he's been searching for her grave. And he's finally learned where she's buried. We reached Jack Anawak in Iqaluit.

CO: Jack, what does it mean for you to finally know where your mother is buried?

JACK ANAWAK: A great weight has been lifted, and it's just a feeling of closure I guess in a way. Just a really nice feeling.

CO: You have been trying to find out where she's buried for 60 years. How did you learn, how did you find out where she where her remains are?

JA: Well, some time ago, we had thought we had an idea of where she might be buried, but we didn't have the resources to go back and check the records and what not. So after the apology, the government of Canada started a program which means let's find them. And as soon as that program started, I gave them the information about the name, her dish number, and where she where she went down, and actually I was the first one that they successfully found where she might be buried about less than a week after that program was started.

CO: At that moment when they told you, what was that like for you to get that information that you your mother is buried in a grave in Brandon, Manitoba?

JA: It's basically euphoria. Just outside of Brandon actually Souix Valley River Reserve cemetery and it was like finally you know I can actually go and see where she's buried — even though she's in an unmarked grave. But finding the location of where she is buried was enough for me.

CO: How old were you when the last time you saw her?

JA: She left on February 14^th, 1956. So I was five years old when she left. And then March 8^th, 1958, we heard that she had passed away.

CO: How did you learn that?

JA: Actually, the Roman Catholic Churches had radios, and they talked to each other between the communities. But they also talked to Churchill who had one because we didn't have any telephone service. So the father at the time — Father LaCoix, he was in The Pas, and he informed whoever was in Churchill, who in turn informed the priest where we were. And that's how we learned.

CO: They got the word back to you that she had passed away from the tuberculosis?

JA: Actually, it wasn't tuberculosis. She had been badly burned in front of her, and it had not been dealt with, and it became cancerous. And that's why she was sent down.

CO: So she wasn't part of that of the groups of the thousands who were sent south because of TB?

JA: No, but it was about the same time, when apparently whoever was on the plane that picked her up was coming from Igloolik, where they had seven people going down for TB, and then they came down and picked up my mother, who was sick from her burn that had not been treated, and went down to Chesterfield, and then on to I guess to Brandon.

CO: Do you have any memory of your mom?

JA: Yes, I do actually. I was young. I was five years old. And at the time, remember we were still nomadic and living on hunting and gathering. And so we traveled everywhere with the seasons, hunting and fishing and whatnot. So I have very good memories of her.

CO: And over the years have you learned about your mom? Other people have stories they told you, shared?

JA: Actually yes. Thirty years after she passed away, I visited my aunt who said that she was with her as she was leaving, as my aunt was coming back. And she told her that just make sure that Jackie — she called me Jackie — always has [shoes]. And then 50 years later, somebody else told me that she remembers her and the way she always talked about me. Then last year, after I was on about her on the radio, this lady phoned me up, and she was as she said she was a little girl in Chesterfield Inlet going to school, and had to go down south and room with her in Brandon — even though she didn't know who she was at the time because she was just a little girl. And then found out later that it was my mom. So it was like she was sending me messages over the years.

CO: Jack, I hope that is as special a moment as you’re planning. And I really appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

JA: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

JA: Bye.

JD: After 61 years, Jack Anawak has learned where his mother is buried. We reached him in Iqaluit.

[Music: Guitar]

Noel Starblanket obit

JD: Noel Starblanket spent his life fighting for equality for all Indigenous people in Canada. The respected elder and longtime chief died earlier this week. He was 72 years old. He survived residential school, and went onto become one of the youngest elected chiefs in Canada — representing his home community of Star Blanket in Saskatchewan when he was just 24 years old. He worked with, or tried to work with, prime ministers and premiers. And he was the two-time chief of the National Indian Brotherhood, now the Assembly of First Nations. In January of 2012, the Assembly of First Nations was in talks with Ottawa to repeal the Indian Act. By this time, Noel Starblanket wasn't as active in politics. But he still had the experience, and he spoke with Carol about how familiar it all was to him.

SOUNDCLIP

NOEL STARBLANKET: It brought back many memories of these kind of meetings that we had had when I was involved in the First Nations political world, and the meetings we had with prime ministers and members of cabinet, all of the same kind of verbiage and promises, and all that sort of thing. So I'm very familiar with what went on here this past couple of days.

CO: If somebody told you back in 1970 that they would still be talking about whether or not they should keep the Indian Act in 2012, what would you have thought?

NS: Well, back then I had done interviews with various of the media, and I told them then that this would take decades. So I'm not surprised at all that you know it has taken this long to get another meeting with the powers that be, so that they could at least be told about some of the problems and dysfunctions within the First Nations community and communities. You know all of this brings to bear in all of the things that we said back then. In fact, the problems have become worse in our communities. And so some drastic action needs to happen here, and some changes need to be made. I hope that this prime minister and his cabinet are sincere about wanting to do these changes, make these changes, and I'll be continuing to watch. I'm now at a stage in my life where I observe all of these goings on. I watch them keenly, and I don't very often jump into the political fray, but on occasion I do. And when I do, it often makes waves. So I'm kind of careful now to kind of keep my perspective here.

CO: But it sounds like it needs a wave maker. I mean maybe this is the time for you to jump in and start to flap.

NS: Yeah, well if people would ask me, I would be willing. But you know they tend to put former leaders out to pasture amongst our people, and that's exactly what I'm doing. So I'm out in my pasture looking after my horses, and I'm quite happy doing that. I live a very good life.

JD: That was Noel Starblanket speaking with Carol in January of 2012. In that interview, Mr. Starblanket spoke about the deja-vu he was experiencing over how Indigenous people are treated in Canada. And with good reason, because 32 years earlier, in 1980, he appeared on "As It Happens" to speak about the very same issue — after the government issued a report on the dismal conditions in Indigenous communities.

[sc]

NS: Well, I think there is a great deal of prejudice among non-Indian Canadians towards Indian people. And I don't know if this will just verify their prejudices, or whether it will in fact you know open a lot of eyes. But the fact is that we have ourselves been appealing to Canadians for support of the Indian situation and Indian political position in this country. So we're not appealing to Canadians for their sympathy for the conditions of Indian people. We're appealing to Canadians. For justice to be given to the Indian people for their own political institutions. Now that's a very different order than what John Monroe is trying to do with his report here.

JD: That was Noel Starblanket, speaking on "As It Happens" in 1980. The longtime chief died earlier this week. He was 72 years old.

[Music: Sombre]

Reading: The Selfish Giant

JD: At long last, spring has arrived in Canada. Sort of. I hope. I probably shouldn't have said anything. This year, the arrival of the new season may have you feeling a bit left out in the cold: while you're celebrating that winter is going, many of your family members, your friends, and your colleagues heartily insist that "Winter is Coming". And if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's because -- like me, I confess -- you have spent just a few months looking forward to the spring season, and not years eagerly anticipating Season 8 of Game of Thrones. Nevertheless, here's a story where we Canadians can happily meet in the middle. In this timely fable by Oscar Wilde, winter came long ago, and it isn't going anywhere -- not since the giant returned home, and erected his gigantic wall to keep everyone out. Here now is former “As It Happens” host "Fireside Al" Maitland reading "The Selfish Giant".

SOUNDCLIP

AL MAITLAND: Every afternoon, as they were coming from school, the children used to go and play in the Giant's garden. It was a large lovely garden, with soft green grass. Here and there over the grass stood beautiful flowers like stars, and there were twelve peach-trees that in the spring-time broke out into delicate blossoms of pink and pearl, and in the autumn bore rich fruit. The birds sat on the trees and sang so sweetly that the children used to stop their games in order to listen to them. 'How happy we are here!' they cried to each other. One day the Giant came back. He had been to visit his friend the Cornish ogre, and had stayed with him for seven years. After the seven years were over he had said all that he had to say, for his conversation was limited, and he determined to return to his own castle. When he arrived he saw the children playing in the garden. 'What are you doing here?' he cried in a very gruff voice, and the children ran away. 'My own garden is my own garden,' said the Giant; 'any one can understand that, and I will allow nobody to play in it but myself.' So he built a high wall all round it, and put up a notice-board. TRESPASSERS WILL BE PROSECUTED. He was a very selfish Giant. The poor children had now nowhere to play. They tried to play on the road, but the road was very dusty and full of hard stones, and they did not like it. They used to wander round the high wall when their lessons were over, and talk about the beautiful garden inside. 'How happy we were there,' they said to each other.

Then the Spring came, and all over the country there were little blossoms and little birds. Only in the garden of the Selfish Giant it was still Winter. The birds did not care to sing in it as there were no children, and the trees forgot to blossom. Once a beautiful flower put its head out from the grass, but when it saw the notice-board it was so sorry for the children that it slipped back into the ground again, and went off to sleep. The only people who were pleased were the Snow and the Frost. 'Spring has forgotten this garden,' they cried, 'so we will live here all the year round.' The Snow covered up the grass with her great white cloak, and the Frost painted all the trees silver. Then they invited the North Wind to stay with them, and he came. He was wrapped in furs, and he roared all day about the garden, and blew the chimney-pots down. 'This is a delightful spot,' he said, 'we must ask the Hail on a visit.' So the Hail came. Every day for three hours he rattled on the roof of the castle till he broke most of the slates, and then he ran round and round the garden as fast as he could go. He was dressed in grey, and his breath was like ice.

'I cannot understand why the Spring is so late in coming,' said the Selfish Giant, as he sat at the window and looked out at his cold white garden; 'I hope there will be a change in the weather.'

But the Spring never came, nor the Summer. The Autumn gave golden fruit to every garden, but to the Giant's garden she gave none. 'He is too selfish,' she said. So it was always Winter there, and the North Wind, and the Hail, and the Frost, and the Snow danced about through the trees.

One morning the Giant was lying awake in bed when he heard some lovely music. It sounded so sweet to his ears that he thought it must be the King's musicians passing by. It was really only a little linnet singing outside his window, but it was so long since he had heard a bird sing in his garden that it seemed to him to be the most beautiful music in the world. Then the Hail stopped dancing over his head, and the North Wind ceased roaring, and a delicious perfume came to him through the open casement. 'I believe the Spring has come at last,' said the Giant; and he jumped out of bed and looked out.

What did he see?

He saw a most wonderful sight. Through a little hole in the wall the children had crept in, and they were sitting in the branches of the trees. In every tree that he could see there was a little child. And the trees were so glad to have the children back again that they had covered themselves with blossoms, and were waving their arms gently above the children's heads. The birds were flying about and twittering with delight, and the flowers were looking up through the green grass and laughing. It was a lovely scene, only in one corner it was still Winter. It was the farthest corner of the garden, and in it was standing a little boy. He was so small that he could not reach up to the branches of the tree, and he was wandering all round it, crying bitterly. The poor tree was still quite covered with frost and snow, and the North Wind was blowing and roaring above it. 'Climb up! little boy,' said the Tree, and it bent its branches down as low as it could; but the little boy was too tiny.

And the Giant's heart melted as he looked out. 'How selfish I have been!' he said; 'now I know why the Spring would not come here. I will put that poor little boy on the top of the tree, and then I will knock down the wall, and my garden shall be the children's playground for ever and ever.' He was really very sorry for what he had done.

So he crept downstairs and opened the front door quite softly, and went out into the garden. But when the children saw him they were so frightened that they all ran away, and the garden became Winter again. Only the little boy did not run, for his eyes were so full of tears that he died not see the Giant coming. And the Giant stole up behind him and took him gently in his hand, and put him up into the tree. And the tree broke at once into blossom, and the birds came and sang on it, and the little boy stretched out his two arms and flung them round the Giant's neck, and kissed him. And the other children, when they saw that the Giant was not wicked any longer, came running back, and with them came the Spring. 'It is your garden now, little children,' said the Giant, and he took a great axe and knocked down the wall. And when the people were gong to market at twelve o'clock they found the Giant playing with the children in the most beautiful garden they had ever seen.

All day long they played, and in the evening they came to the Giant to bid him good-bye.

'But where is your little companion?' he said: 'the boy I put into the tree.' The Giant loved him the best because he had kissed him.

'We don't know,' answered the children; 'he has gone away.'

'You must tell him to be sure and come here to-morrow,' said the Giant. But the children said that they did not know where he lived, and had never seen him before; and the Giant felt very sad.

Every afternoon, when school was over, the children came and played with the Giant. But the little boy whom the Giant loved was never seen again. The Giant was very kind to all the children, yet he longed for his first little friend, and often spoke of him. 'How I would like to see him!' he used to say.

Years went over, and the Giant grew very old and feeble. He could not play about any more, so he sat in a huge armchair, and watched the children at their games, and admired his garden. 'I have many beautiful flowers,' he said; 'but the children are the most beautiful flowers of all.'

One winter morning he looked out of his window as he was dressing. He did not hate the Winter now, for he knew that it was merely the Spring asleep, and that the flowers were resting.

Suddenly he rubbed his eyes in wonder, and looked and looked. It certainly was a marvellous sight. In the farthest corner of the garden was a tree quite covered with lovely white blossoms. Its branches were all golden, and silver fruit hung down from them, and underneath it stood the little boy he had loved.

Downstairs ran the Giant in great joy, and out into the garden. He hastened across the grass, and came near to the child. And when he came quite close his face grew red with anger, and he said, 'Who hath dared to wound thee?' For on the palms of the child's hands were the prints of two nails, and the prints of two nails were on the little feet.

'Who hath dared to wound thee?' cried the Giant; 'tell me, that I may take my big sword and slay him.'

'Nay!' answered the child; 'but these are the wounds of Love.'

'Who art thou?' said the Giant, and a strange awe fell on him, and he knelt before the little child.

And the child smiled on the Giant, and said to him, 'You let me play once in your garden, to-day you shall come with me to my garden, which is Paradise.'

And when the children ran in that afternoon, they found the Giant lying dead under the tree, all covered with white blossoms.

JD: Former As it Happens host "Fireside Al" Maitland, reading "The Selfish Giant", by Oscar Wilde.

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April 19, 2018 episode transcript

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