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The AIH Transcript for January 25, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening, I'm Karen Gordon, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

KG: Tonight:

CO: An alleged bomb plot foiled. Kingston, Ontario, is in shock today, after the RCMP charges a young man with terrorism-related offences.

KG: Venezuela's crisis. Several countries have officially recognized opposition leader Juan Guaido as the country's interim president — but our guest believes he recognizes a coup.

CO: Stone unturned. The FBI arrests longtime Republican behind-the-scenes operative Roger Stone. But the self-described "dirty trickster" says he won't testify against President Donald Trump.

KG: Rooms with no view. The Marriott chain announces it's trained employees to spot signs of human trafficking — but our guest says the real problems happen at AirBnBs, which are much harder to track.

CO: The world beat a path to her candour. Our guest says that, as an editor, his late friend Diana Athill was exceptional — and that, as a writer, she was exceptionally frank about subjects most women don't discuss in public.

KG: And...she'll take a cup of kindness yet. It took 131 years, but tonight, on Robbie Burns Day, a Scottish club dedicated to the poet has invited a special guest to speak at its annual dinner: a woman.

KG: "As It Happens", the Friday edition. Radio that gets the lass word.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Kingston bomb plot: sponsor, Roger Stone indicted, Diana Athill obit

Kingston bomb plot: sponsor

Guest: Bronek Korcynzski

KG: The RCMP still aren't saying much about the alleged terror plot in Kingston. They arrested two young men in the Ontario city this morning. One is a minor, who has now been charged with facilitating a terrorist activity, and with counselling another to deliver an explosive device. The other young man was freed without charges late this afternoon. Here's RCMP Superintendent Peter Lambertucci, speaking at a press conference earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

PETER LAMBERTUCCI: There was an evacuation of an arrest of a residence yesterday in the early morning… or excuse me, in the early morning today. There was an element that was located believed to be an explosive substance. Collectively, with the assistance of the Kingston Police Service Critical Incident Command and our explosive disposal unit, we did remove that substance from the residence, and we did detonate that substance. It was neutralized and rendered inert.

REPORTER: Can I just ask about the FBI involvement?

PL: In December of 2018, we did receive credible FBI information regarding an attack plot. There was no specific target identified. There was an attack plan, which is what led to our disruption yesterday.

KG: That was RCMP Superintendent Peter Lambertucci, speaking in Kingston this afternoon. The man the RCMP released this afternoon without charges is Hussam Eddin Alzahabi. Mr. Alzahabi is a Syrian refugee who came to Canada as a teen, along with his family, under the sponsorship of a multi-faith group. Bronek Korcynzski is the co-chair of that group. We reached Mr. Korcynzski in Kingston

CO: Mr. Korcynzski, have you had a chance to speak with the Alzahabi family?

BRONEK KORCYNZSKI: I was texting with the father of the family just moments ago, and needless to say, they are so happy that Hussam is back in their warm embrace.

CO: And what has this day been like for them?

BK: Oh, I can't imagine. I mean as a father and grandparent myself, I know this has been ripping at their heart at so many levels. And you know as you can well imagine I mean they are very much aware of what's going on in the world and the situation that they left in the Middle East. And to be linked with this kind of a situation, I mean it's the last thing that they want. And the whole reason for coming to Canada was to seek safety. To be embroiled in this has just got to be a nightmare.

CO: You were co-chair of the steering committee for this sponsorship, and there were the mom and dad and three kids. Hussam Eddin is the young man who was arrested, is that right — the son?

BK: That's correct.

CO: Well, how did you react when you heard that he had been arrested?

BK: Oh, just absolute disbelief and shock. I mean this is a family who has done everything to express their gratitude for what has been done for them to accommodate their settlement into Canada. Has always felt that they could never say thank you enough, and I think had always wished that they could do more or to express that gratitude. So throughout our experience with the family right down to just the other day when my wife was visiting with Sama, this family has expressed nothing but gratitude for what this country and what the Kingston Community has done for them. And to be put back into a position of vulnerability after we've done everything to make them feel safe and welcome and secure has just got to have rocked their world. I mean this is the knock on the door that every Canadian parent you know lows to have in the middle of the night, you know? Yeah, it's terrible.

CO: How well did you know the young man, Hussam Eddin?

BK: You know quite well. I mean Hussam was with an evening visit was often around, and certainly on weekends. In fact, you know Hussam has been to my house, and you know helped me move furniture, and you know he's just an upstanding young man who wanted nothing more than to make a new life for himself and to take advantage of the wonderful opportunities that Canada has made available to him.

CO: Do you know what link, if Any, is between him and the young man — the minor — whose name isn't listed, and who's now charged with these terror-related offenses?

BK: I do not. And I mean to this moment no information about this minor has been released. And I haven't yet spoken to Hussam. As I said I think right now, he just needs to rest in the embrace of his family, and you know hopefully, this ordeal will be over soon. I know the investigation is ongoing, but hopefully this is a good sign that you know Hussam will not be implicated.

CO: We heard today from the Conservative leader Andrew Scheer, who said that he says it's clear that Canada's refugee screening process needs to be seriously examined. And he warns of what he calls a lax screening procedure for people coming into the country — this in reference to this arrest. What do you say to Mr. Scheer?

BK: Well, I know that the Alzahabi family, as with thousands of other refugees from around the world, you know have undergone a very thorough screening. We waited a year and a half for the family to arrive in Kingston. And one of the reasons for that was because of the extensive nature of the security checks. You know I'm concerned about any kind of rhetoric that you know that would suggest that Canadians should be fearful of welcoming these people whose lives have been you know often violently disrupted. And you know were not for you know the generosity of Canadians, the fate of a lot of these people would be you know unthinkable.

CO: Can you just finally tell us what are you telling the family tonight? How are you helping them?

BK: Well, we're telling them that even though our legal obligations as a sponsor group concluded in July of 2017, that we continue to walk with them. You know they know that that we are well-connected with the Kingston community. And the Kingston community continues to be wonderful in their support of new Canadians. So we're trying to offer them that that reassurance. And we want to make sure that the message gets out that Kingston is and will remain a welcoming community, and we will rally to the support of those families that are already here.

CO: We still have a situation where there's a young man who is allegedly a friend of the man you sponsored who's been charged with plotting terror in your community. So where does that leave you?

BK: That leaves us with a lot of questions. Again, I know that just as we recognize that the Alzahabi family you know is aching over the situation, there's another family who undoubtedly is in a similar situation. And I don't know who this young person is, male or female. I don't know is his place of origin. But one thing is certain, that this is a young person who clearly made some bad if not ill-informed decisions that could have hurt a lot of people. So you know whether it's the criminal justice system or you know community services, I think our goal is to is to make sure that a, justice is done. But b to, that in terms of a community that we can continue to send out the message that that's not the Canadian way.

CO: Mr. Korcynzski, we will leave it there. And I appreciate you speaking with us tonight. Thank you.

BK: You're very welcome. Goodnight.

KG: Bronek Korcynzski is the co-chair of the committee that sponsored Hussam Eddin Alzahabi and his family to come to Canada as refugees. This afternoon, the RCMP released Mr. Alzahabi without charges. He had been arrested earlier this morning as part of an investigation that's led to terrorism charges being laid against a youth we cannot name.

[Music: World music]

Roger Stone indicted

Guest: Daniel DiMauro

KG: He's led "Lock Her Up" chants at Trump rallies. But today, Roger Stone got a taste of his own medicine; protesters swarmed the former Trump adviser, with boos and chants of "Lock HIM Up" today, outside a courthouse in Florida. Earlier, police swarmed his home and arrested him in the dead of night. Now, he faces seven charges as part of Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian election meddling. Here's Mr. Stone at a press conference earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

ROGER STONE: This morning, at the crack of dawn, 29 FBI agents arrived at my home with 17 vehicles, when they could simply have contacted my attorneys, and I would've been more than willing to surrender voluntarily. They terrorized my wife, my dogs. I believe this is a politically-motivated investigation. I look forward to being fully and completely vindicated.

KG: Roger Stone, defending himself to reporters today. To say Roger Stone is a unique character in Washington, D.C. would be an understatement. Daniel DiMauro made a documentary about the man with a penchant for three-piece suits, and a Richard Nixon back tattoo. The film's called "Get Me Roger Stone." We reached Mr. DiMauro in Park City, Utah.

CO: Daniel, as we just heard, Roger Stone came out swinging today. In that circus, we just heard him accuse police of terrorizing his wife and his dogs. Does this sound like the Roger Stone you got to know?

DANIEL DIMAURO: Yeah, absolutely. You know he's a bomb thrower. And this is not much different from the narrative he's been putting out there that he will never flip on the president, and he will never lie to investigators just to get himself off the hook. He said he believed an indictment was coming. And it's important to note that it was just a few weeks ago that the president tweeted that Stone was saying that he would never testify against him. And the president said it's good to know people still have guts, as he put it.

CO: Now in your film, “Get Me Roger Stone”, you paint quite the picture of this man. I mean it'd be hard to invent him. People might doubt it if it was a fictional character. Can you describe what Roger Stone is like?

DD: We were drawn to him because he's just a very flamboyant, pot-smoking, bodybuilding, swinger dandy, who's just a very kind of charismatic. So we thought he was an entertaining character that could be a vehicle or a lens for us to kind of examine the degradation of our political dialogue over the last few decades.

CO: And he said in your film, he's got a few lines, it's better to be infamous than never to be famous at all. And one man's dirty trick is another man's civil political action. And you also learned that he has a tattoo of Nixon on his back. What is that about?

DD: Most people like to paper over their misdeeds and political dirty tricks. But he comes out and says I'm a dirty trickster, and everyone does it. I'm just going to talk about it. And he worked for Richard Nixon's re-election campaign in 1972, and ran low-level dirty tricks for him. He was actually the youngest person to go to the Watergate grand jury just at the age of 19. So he was a real political prodigy.

CO: Well, prosecutors are alleging that Roger Stone lied to Congress, and that he directed witnesses to lie to Congress about his own knowledge of a massive WikiLeaks email dump. And these were emails from Hillary Clinton's campaign, and they were allegedly stolen by Russian hackers, and that WikiLeaks ended up publishing them. So what is Roger Stone's alleged connection to all of this?

DD: Roger repeatedly during the campaign was saying that he was in communication with WikiLeaks. At one time, he said he communicated with Assange. Assange is the founder of WikiLeaks. As it turns out, he changed his story, and said that he actually had an intermediary — either one or two. These are the persons named in the indictment. So when he made these claims it obviously put him on the radar of investigators. He testified to Congress. And according to Mueller, he lied to Congress. And that's really at the heart of the indictment. There's not a specific crime alleged of him communicating with WikiLeaks. But the indictment does say that he was directed by a senior campaign official to seek out the information from WikiLeaks. That also may not be a crime. The crime at the heart of Russian collusion is proving that Trump or senior members of his campaign were aware that this material was coming from the Russians, and had foreknowledge before the crime of the hacking was committed.

CO: And a senior member of the campaign is not mentioned, is not named in this indictment, is that right?

DD: That's right.

CO: But there is speculation that it could be Steve Bannon because emails were disclosed that show that Bannon was asking Stone about WikiLeaks disclosures.

CO: But it doesn't seem that that Roger Stone is terribly worried about this. I mean he's said before that Julian Assange he regards as a hero. And so he doesn't hide the fact that he admired him. He just said he didn't know him — he didn't have the contact with him.

DD: That's correct. He thinks Assange is a journalist. He thinks he's a hero, and he believes that Assange did nothing wrong. And he believes that he did nothing wrong.

CO: There are some extraordinary emails in this indictment, aren’t there — and allegedly sent by Roger Stone. In one of the emails, he's pressuring a congressional witness to stay quiet. And he makes reference to the film “The Godfather”. And then in another email, he's quoting his hero Richard Nixon. He says Stonewall it, plead the Fifth, anything to save the plan. Why do you think he would allegedly use language like this and be so brazen?

DD: Brazen is his M.O. A word kind of couldn't describe him more. And that's why he was so vocal about actually having communicated with WikiLeaks. He wanted people to know he is this dirty trickster, and he may have bitten off more than he could chew. In reference to him talking about “The Godfather”, the person in the indictment is this guy Randy Credico, and they have a very strange relationship. And it does kind of seem that Roger Stone threatened to take his dog away from him, or kill his dog or something to basically threaten him because he was afraid he was going to say too much to investigators.

CO: It's hard to make this stuff up. He's obviously a great admirer of Donald Trump, and it seems to be mutual. But is it possible that he will turn? Do you think that there’s a chance he'll be like Michael Cohen? If they get enough on him that he will actually start to deliver the goods to the Mueller inquiry?

DD: I mean he is steadfast in his claim that he will never flip on Trump. And also, that he doesn't have any information to provide, so he can even cooperate because that would force him to bear false witness against the president as he puts it. But again, when you're facing hard prison time, I think any human being might have the capacity to change their mind when they're facing a jail cell.

CO: All right. We'll be watching. Daniel, it’s good to talk to you. Thanks.

DD: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye-bye.

DD: Bye.

KG: Daniel DiMauro is the co-director of the documentary "Get Me Roger Stone." Today, Mr. Stone, a former longtime adviser to President Donald Trump, was arrested and charged as part of Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election. For more on this story — and to see Roger Stone's infamous Richard Nixon back tattoo — go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Indie rock]

Diana Athill obit

Guest: Ian Jack

KG: She was known as "the best editor in London." For decades, Diana Athill worked behind the scenes, editing books by some of the most important writers of the 20th century: Margaret Atwood, V.S. Naipaul, Mordecai Richler, and Norman Mailer. But later in her career, Ms. Athill became known for her own writing, and then became an international sensation in her 90s. Diana Athill died earlier this week at the age of 101. Here she is in 2001, speaking with Eleanor Wachtel, host of "Writers and Company", about what it was like for women in the publishing world in the 1950s and '60s.

SOUNDCLIP

ELANOR WACHTEL: But you make the point that basically all publishing was run by many badly-paid women, and a few much better-paid men. An imbalance that women were, of course, aware of, but which they seem to take for granted. This is a situation that you also took for granted.

DIANA ATHILL: It's almost the truth still, you know? But it certainly was then. And one didn't like it. But I don’t think one sort of saw that it was possible for anything else to happen. And I’ve thought about it a good deal since, and I didn't say this in the book. But I think what it was you see is that I was really one of the first women in my family, my gender, I was one of the first to go and do a job anyway, and earn my own living, and that was a big step forward. One can rarely say to oneself with satisfaction well, here I am, I'm owning my own living, my family are not able to me keep me, and there’s no husband keeping me. I've done it. And I think that sort of used up all one's energy really. And from that point on, you didn't go that step further in thinking and why am I not earning as good a living as a man? You know, one had done what nobody else had done it in the family. It was for somebody else to take it a further step.

EW: Now to some degree, that's happened. But you say that, and I agree with you, that it seems like not that much has changed in that. Why do you think this is?

DA: Well, I think it is really, of course, I think women do still feel that if they put up a very fierce stand for something, they lose face with me. And I'm afraid that there's still this feeling that to some extent that what men see you as is what you really are. So if you become a pain in the neck to them, you can't help feeling that you’re actually being a pain in the neck. I think that does still go on a bit, you know?

KG: The late writer and editor Diana Athill, speaking with "Writers and Company" host Eleanor Wachtel in 2001. Ian Jack is the former editor of Granta magazine. He edited several of Diana Athill's books, and he was also a good friend of hers. We reached Ian Jack in London.

CO: Ian, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

IAN JACK: Well, Diana was 101 years old. And when it came to it, I think in the end, the general feeling was that she'd passed away as peacefully as a person can do. And she's had a long and successful and interesting life. And I think that's as much as one can expect. In fact, more than most of us can expect.

CO: She's well-known as the best editor in London as people have said. And she worked on so many books of so many well-known writers, and so Diana Athill was popular for that reason. But she is best known as now as a writer herself. So that came about late, didn't it? That she started to write about her own extraordinary experiences.

IJ: Yes, she became well-known late in life. I was editing a magazine, Granta, and found out she was writing a book. We published the book. It was a memoir of publishing. It included interesting things about people like Jean Reese, and Mordecai Richler, and V.S. Naipaul that she edited in her days there. And it was unusually, and unexpectedly, a bit of a success. And then we published a book of hers called “Somewhere Towards The End”, which was about the fact of growing old. It was beautifully, tenderly, and wisely written. At it won a prize, and it became a bestseller. And then she became very well-known.

CO: And this is into her 90s where she really got famous as a writer.

IJ: Yes, yes, she was still writing when she was 99, 100 even she was still trying to write. So she was remarkably strong. I mean if you saw her, you thought gosh, that’s a strong person, very erect. And can be quite fierce. I mean she was extremely down on sentimentality, or what she called saccharine writing of any kind. So I always felt a bit weak sometimes in her company because she knew her own mind.

CO: And she knew her own appetites. And I think this has worked for so many well women especially who read Diana Athill. That she wrote this candid, frank work about sexual appetites, and unflinchingly honest about it. This loves and losses and all of that. And went into through all her decades at a time when women didn't write about such taboo. Nobody wrote about such taboos.

IJ: She did indeed. I mean that was one of the first things I noticed in that book called “After A Funeral”, and she'd had an unsuccessful relationship, and she described the sex completely kind of cold-eyed. Sometimes, I’d find it almost too much. She was so kind of distant from the act, and described it so well. In fact, in her most successful book called “Somewhere Towards The End”, when I was editing it, I said could she cut back on the sex a bit? Because it seemed to be interfering with the theme of the book, which was about no, and the sex was then. And it's very odd to be asking a 90-year-old lady to cut back on sex.

CO: And did she?

IJ: She did rework it, and it was I think, I hope, I think it was improved. That was a remarkable thing about her.

CO: And did other people agree with you?

IJ: Other people never knew. That's between me and the listeners of your radio show.

CO: Well, that's a lot of people right now. So you got her to take out sex scenes in her 90s from her books?

IJ: Yes, I don't want to kind of exaggerate this. But in this one occasion, I just thought it'd be better if she just slacked off that a bit, and concentrated on the theme of her presence now. Because this was kind of going back to the last time she'd had sex in her 70s. And we need to establish that fact, then move on to something else. Gosh, I sound like a kind of preacher and I didn’t mean to.

CO: Well, you might sound like a man talking about a woman's sexuality.

IJ: Yes, of course, that’s what I sound like.

CO: Which you are. But I mean she did write so candidly about these relationships with men, her loves a losses. I mean one lover who committed suicide, one other one who was murdered. Well, one was this complicated relationship with this Egyptian novelist, who killed himself in her own apartment, didn't he?

IJ: Yes, yes, yes, she did. She I mean I agree that's the thing that's striking about her. I just wonder if it maybe obscures though her other eventual strength I think, which was the wisdom of life really. I mean she was a beautiful observer of things, and she paid close attention to people, and she was very good at doing that.

CO: In Granta, Margaret Atwood wrote about her after she died. And described what she meant from a female point of view. That Diana Athill said things that a lot of women over the years felt they couldn't say and talk about. So that's the legacy for women like Margaret Atwood and many women. What's her legacy in your view?

IJ: She became to many women a kind of symbol of feminism really. And I'm not saying she wasn't a feminist. That kind of conversation never occurred between us. I mean obviously, she was a feminist. She had a very successful career at a time when it wasn't easy to have one as a woman. Somehow, I don't know how much it interested her.

CO: Did you ask her how difficult it was for her to accomplish what she did in her lifetime?

IJ: I didn't because she'd written it really. She'd written it. And I think the question you're asking me now is something which perhaps because of my gender, or my sloth, or my I don't know something, I never asked her. But I know woman do admire her very much now, and do think of her in those terms.

CO: Ian Jack, we will leave it there. And I appreciate your reflections on Diana Athill. Thank you.

IJ: Thank you.

KG: Ian Jack was in London. He is a journalist and former editor of Granta magazine. He was an editor and friend to author Diana Athill, who has died at the age of 101. We’s posted more about Diana Athill on the “As It Happens” website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Part two: Venezuela: pro-government, Robbie Burns club: first women

Venezuela: pro-government

Guest: Raul Burbano

KG: This week, after massive street protests in Venezuela, opposition leader Juan Guaido declared himself the new interim president of the country. And many countries, including Canada and the U.S., moved quickly to recognize him as such. Yesterday, we spoke to a young woman in Caracas who opposes the government of Nicolas Maduro. But Mr. Maduro has refused to go quietly. And not everyone believes that Juan Guaido has a legitimate claim to the presidency. Raul Burbano is program director with Common Frontiers — a umbrella organization of Canadian labour and civil society groups. His organization is supporting a rally in Toronto on Saturday condemning what it says is an attempt to overthrow the legitimate Venezuelan government. We reached Mr. Burbano in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Burbano, why do you think that Canada is wrong to recognize Juan Guaido as the interim president of Venezuela?

RAUL BURBANO: Well, thank you for the invitation. And I think Canada's misplaced in terms of recognizing an individual who is self-proclaimed. It's a violation of the Venezuelan constitution, and you know frankly, it's a violation of sort of international norms. I think it's also problematic that the United States, under Trump with a slew of allies under the Lima Group like Honduras, like Guatemala, like Brazil, countries who have sketchy at best democratic norms themselves, immense violations of human rights, are leading the charge to unseat a democratically-elected government.

CO: Are you calling this a coup?

RB: Oh, absolutely. I mean it's nothing short of an attempted coup.

CO: Because the reason why countries like Canada, well the United Nations, the European Union, the Lima Group, the United States, Australia, the Organization of American States, all have said that they don't recognize the election of Mr. Maduro as having been democratically conducted. That there are too many irregularities, there was such a small turnout, there were numerous boycotts, and that his election is being questioned as being legitimate. Do you dispute that?

RB: Well, absolutely. As an international observer at the last Venezuelan elections, I can say that unanimously the 150 international observers who were there all put forward that the elections in Venezuela were legitimate, transparent, fair. I think it's important to also note that there was a plethora of diversity of political parties that partook. Yes, in Venezuela like in some countries, the opposition has the opportunity not to partake. Three parties decided not to partake. That was their choice. They could have partaken, and maybe the makeup of power would be different today. But that was their choice. If we are questioning the election of Maduro as illegitimate, then why do we support the elections of the National Assembly in 2015? It's under the same system. If one is corrupt, the other one is.

CO: The opposition parties boycotted the election because of alleged vote rigging. You say the recognition that it was transparent. There were all kinds of irregularities. There was evidence that there was vote buying, vote rigging. There were so many questions, and that which led to organizations like the United Nations saying that there were enough irregularities to question the legitimacy of that election. So there seems to be a lot of consensus that there was a serious problem with the election of Mr. Maduro.

RB: Well, it's ironic that the consensus started even before the elections. The elections were deemed fraud before that. Yes, three political parties decided not to participate. That's their choice. And you know no one can force them to participate. That does not make the elections illegitimate.

CO: But just to get to a larger part of this story, which is not just that if the election was all that was to this then we probably wouldn't be talking. But the issue is that the state of affairs in Venezuela, where you have hyperinflation, where we've seen Mr. Maduro's mismanagement of the affairs, where you have access to great oil wealth, but it seems to have been squandered. That so many examples of how people are living. We talked to a woman last night who was talking about the food shortages, and the rampant crime, and the hyperinflation. She can't get work. People have to walk away from their homes. I mean this is a country in crisis, is it not?

RB: Absolutely, you are correct. There are challenges in Venezuela. Economic hyperinflation you know I don't think anybody can deny that. You know I was in Venezuela last year in May during the electoral process, and I spoke to people on the street. I saw the reality. I think the word humanitarian crisis though in general when that's been mentioned that's been used as politicized. For example, it's not just me saying it. I mean there are definitely challenges, but there's not a humanitarian crisis in Venezuela. And as I said, it's not just me. Alfred de Zayas, the former U.N. independent expert on the promotion of democratic and equitable international order, visited Venezuela last year. He's the rapporteur. He came up with a very clear report on the situation Venezuela. And he said very clearly there is no humanitarian crisis.

CO: But just when you say, Mr. Burbano, when you say that there is no humanitarian crisis, neither of us is living there, so we don't know what it is to go into your supermarkets, your stores and see nothing on the shelves. To see that medicines don't exist. That you see people who have fled the country and gone elsewhere because they can't live there anymore. According to the U.N. figures, there's 2.3 million Venezuelans who have left because they can't live there anymore. This is a crisis. It’s a humanitarian crisis. I think that a lot of people would question how you can make the claim that it's not.

RB: As I said, it's not only me. I think the difference is, and also my experience when I went to visit in May, I went to many stores. They had shelves that weren’t empty, so that's what I'm saying that humanitarian crisis is used as a put a political screen to create a political condition for change. I'm not saying that there is no issues in Venezuela. Absolutely. There are six to seven million displaced Colombians around the world. We don't talk about Colombia as a humanitarian crisis. There are challenges in terms of people coming from Central America today en masse caravan from Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador to the border of the U.S. People don't talk about that as humanitarian crisis.

CO: Karen, are you just about to give your toast at the Burns supper?

KAREN MCGAVOCK: I am indeed, and very much looking forward to it, as the first woman to be invited in 131 year history of the Arbroath Burns Club in Scotland. So that are something like 200 men who are beautifully presented within kilts and all of their finery tak and galore. And at the moment, we've had the haggis in, and the haggis was addressed then. And now, you know we're enjoying a lovely three-course meal with haggis, meats, and patties, and all of the traditional fare, which is lovely.

CO: OK. So and you are the only woman there?

KM: I am, yes. Don't think though it may seem that they are a lovely group of men. They all have twinkles in their eyes, and they've been very welcoming, and they appreciate a new event, a momentous occasion in the life of the Arbroath Burns Club.

CO: But it's not just that you're the only woman there, as you're saying, you're the only woman ever in 131 years to ever be at this Burns event Arbroath.

KM: Yes. Yes, it's an amazing experience, and I think that burns, who loved laddies in very many different ways, would have appreciated the fact that woman to can now join in, and recite his poetry, and address haggises, and all of that. But at the moment, the decision has been made by the committee solely to let a woman reply to the Address to the Lassies. They haven't as yet decided on a granting you know guests who are female to attend future Burn’s suppers. So it's a small step in the organization. But a giant leap in terms of the history of the club.

CO: You mentioned how Robbie Burns loved women in all kinds of different ways, and not just romantically. He did believe in the rights of women, did he not?

KM: He did. He actually wrote a poem which had that very title. And so he believed in upholding the rights of women. He was very much in favour of equality the world over. So in some ways, it does seem strange that you know it generally has been gentlemen's club scene when they've been celebrating Burns Night. But if you look into the poetry, and you see the way in which Burns admired the feistiness of women, and admired the intellect, and admired the beauty, all of that is present in Burns poetry. And you know he wasn't only just a man of his time. He was a man of all time. He did love very many laddies, and maybe perhaps that was his undoing. But and without his love for the ladies, we’d be very much the poorer, and we wouldn't have had the capacity to achieve which he left behind as a legacy.

CO: How did you come to be selected to be this first woman at the Arbroath Burns Club?

KM: Well, I you have studied Scottish literature, and I have lectured in Scottish literature for a number of years now. And it's a real passion of mine generally, but specifically and especially Burn’s poetry, so as a proud Scott, I really embrace it. There's a fantastic opportunity to take the club forward into the 21st century, and to be the one opening the door to future women to come as guests, but also to participate in various ways within the supper.

CO: Does everyone at the Arbroath — at this club — do they all support you speaking tonight?

KM: They do. It was, thankfully, a unanimous decision by the committee. So they were very much ready to take this next step, and to embrace change. But also, to return to the spirit of them equality which is vibrant and very pleasant in Burns’s writing. And it means a lot to me personally too.

CO: So there is going to be this toast to the lassies, and then you do the reply. Can you give us a sense of what you're going to say?

KM: Well, I’ll start off by looking at men in all of their verity. So you’ve got the very proud men who are quite bold. Then you have the men who strut and stare. But you also have the [incomprehensible] laddies who need a wee bit of encouragement from us Lassies. And then you know we look at some of the poetry where he specifically talks about equality and in women. And then I move forward into the 21st century, and look at some of the changes that happened, and how things have moved forward to me. So you know, I end up by toasting the laddies of our past, the laddies of our present, and the laddies of our future too.

CO: What do you think that Robbie Burns would think of women in the 21st century?

KM: I think he would be excited by the changes that have happened in society. As I say, he was a man not only of his time, but of whole time. He was radical in some measure, but he was also compassionate. He was certainly an instrument for change in his own time, and would have embraced change in the 21st century.

CO: I know you're expected to get back in that room and get on with the toast, so we'll let you go. And I hope there is some very good whiskey for those toasts.

KM: Thank you very much. And I’ll toast all of our friends in Canada as well.

CO: Well, there are a lot of Burns supper’s happening — lots of lads and lassies toasting tonight in Canada's, so we'll join you in that. Karen, thank you so much.

KM: It's my pleasure. All the best to all of you, and thank you from all of us in Scotland.

CO: All right. Take care. Bye-bye

KM: Bye.

KG: Karen McGavock is an author and lecturer at North East Scotland College. She's the first woman to participate in the Arbroath Burns Club's annual Burns Supper in its 131-year history. We reached Karen McGavock in Arbroath.

[Music: Folk]

Part three: AirBnB human trafficking, Hitler book

Trump shutdown

KG: Thirty-five days and two missed paychecks later, the longest government shutdown in U.S. history is over — for now. Today, President Donald Trump announced an agreement with U.S. lawmakers for three weeks in stop-gap funding — without money for a border wall.

SOUNDCLIP

DONALD TRUMP: My fellow Americans, I am very proud to announce today that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and reopen the federal government. As everyone knows, I have a very powerful alternative. But I didn't want to use it at this time. Hopefully, it will be unnecessary. I want to thank all of the incredible federal workers, and their amazing families, who have shown such extraordinary devotion in the face of this recent hardship. You are fantastic people. You are incredible patriots. Many of you have suffered far greater than anyone but your families would know or understand. And not only did you not complain, but in many cases, you encouraged me to keep going because you care so much about our country and about its border security. Again, I thank you. All Americans, I thank you. You are very, very special people. I am so proud that you are citizens of our country. When I say Make America Great Again, it could never be done without you great people.

KG: President Donald Trump speaking at the White House earlier today. Mr. Trump concluded his remarks with a warning, saying if a deal on border security and a "border wall that works" doesn't happen before February 15th, he will shut down the government again. U.S. Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer focused his response on the workers who were left behind during the shutdown.

SOUNDCLIP

CHUCK SCHUMER: We want to thank all the federal workers from the bottom of our hearts. They've worked so selflessly this past month without pay. Showing up to do a job they knew was important, but for which they weren't fairly compensated. The workers showed up despite the callous indifference of the administration, who treated them as hostages, who treated them as pawns, who belittle their financial strain. Our dedicated public servants should never, never have to go through this again. We will do everything we can to make sure they won't have to. And this past month has proven just how vital government services are to the American people, whether it's our food safety, our airports, our national parks, our economy, our national security, and so much else. The American people do not like it when you throw a wrench into the lives of government workers over an unrelated political dispute. Working people throughout America empathized with the federal workers, and were aghast at what the president was doing to them. Hopefully, now the president has learned his lesson.

KG: U.S. Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer speaking in Washington earlier today.

[Music: Ambient]

AirBnB human trafficking

Guest: Nunzio Tramontozzi

KG: Human traffickers have long used the hospitality industry as cover. And now, one of the world's biggest hotel chains says it's trying to stop exploitation in its tracks. The Marriott Hotel chain says it has just finished training 500-thousand of its employees worldwide to spot the signs of human trafficking, and to pass that information onto the police. A Toronto detective says it's a great first step. And he thinks booking services like AirBnB should do the same. Detective-Sergeant Nunzio Tramontozzi is the head of Toronto Police's sex crimes and human-trafficking enforcement team. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Detective-Sergeant Tramontozzi, how does this initiative on the part of the Marriott chain how does it help you?

NUNZIO TRAMONTOZZI: It helps us a lot. It actually helps the victims of human trafficking. If the staff at the hotels if they know what the characteristics of human trafficking are, they're able to see the signs, report it to their management, and in turn, they report that to the police. And that gives us an opportunity to actually speak with these victims while they're at the hotels, and see what help they need to get out of the game.

CO: And what should these employees be looking for?

NT: Well, you know there's many things. You know each section of a hotel there would be different types of characteristics. So saying the front counter staff would look for maybe a younger girl who's with an older adult male. And she's the one that actually rent out the room for them. They usually will pay in cash or prepaid credit cards. If it was say the cleaning staff, you know where a room doesn't want the room cleaned for several days in a row, or if they're asking for a lot of towels. Because what happens is these victims, after every client that they have, they take showers. Condoms are a huge thing, right? They use them all the time. So those are the characteristics that people and staff in the hotel should be looking for now.

CO: But this a luxury hotel chain the Marriott, and good on them for trying to help out with this activity of human trafficking. But is it really the biggest part of the trade? The pimps and the traffickers, where are they looking for in order to stay off your radar?

NT: Hotels is the main type of venue that they use to traffic their victims. But we're seeing an emerging trend where they're using AirBnB now locations, lower-end motel locations, so they're starting to look outside of the hotel chain. AirBnB is a big one because most of these traffickers know that it's harder for the police to get into an AirBnB. They’re private residences. To get into a private residence, you need a search warrant. To get a search warrant, you need evidence. So they are starting to get smarter in how they do their business, so that they don't get detected as much. One of the other ways of doing it so that they don't get detected is they move these girls from hotel to hotel, to hotel. They'll stay in a hotel two-three days, and then will move her to another hotel in another town.

CO: Just last February, you had you arrested two men who were shuttling victims like you're describing, going through multiple AirBnBs. Can you tell us about that case?

NT: Yes. So we had a female victim that was forced into the sex trade. She was first being trafficked in hotel chains, and then they went to AirBnB condos. She was able to escape, and they found her in a motel. When they did find her, they were not very pleased. And because of what she did, one of the individuals shot her.

CO: And just so people understand how horrible it is for these young women, how did she end up in the hands of these men?

NT: This particular case, I'm not sure. But typically, these relationships start on the Internet. And these pimps they look for something that they can manipulate. They’re master manipulators, so they will hone in on the one thing — the one vulnerable part of their life — and you know a girl will say I don't feel very pretty today. The pimp will pick up on it, and say you know what? I think you look fine. I think it would be great if you were my lady. And now someone's paying attention. And that's the hook. That goes into let's exchange numbers, let's meet, and the guy will start showering gifts on this girl. And then what he does is he takes that love away. And this girl will say oh my god, you know what? I better do what he says to do, or he's not to love me anymore. And it doesn't take a very long time. You know people think that this grooming process might take a couple weeks, months. It takes 48 hours. In 48 hours, they will be in the sex trade.

CO: The Marriott can train 500-thousand workers around the world. They have those means — they do that all the time. But how do you get that same kind of sensibility into the AirBnB system?

NT: You know the way the Marriott is doing it I think AirBnB should do it also. And I think all the hotel chains should be doing this. They should be training their staff because the police can't do it all.

CO: I’m just wondering you know this other businesses you it's not just it's the hotel chains, it's the AirBnB’s, but then there's Uber and Lyft, and all of these others that are part of the chain of what the traffickers use. So how far does the conversation go?

NT: Well, the conversation has to go a long way. You know what? A lot of these victims use Uber and Lyft. They need to be trained on what characteristics to look for. So this is not just the hotel industry or AirBnB. This is you know the ride-sharing companies that are out there. This is a big problem, and there's a lot of people in the mix. So if we can educate all those people to look for those characteristics, we'll be farther ahead to helping victims of human trafficking. So everyone has to have a part in this conversation. And you know we will try everything we can to get them to be part of that conversation, and educate their employees.

CO: All right. Well, I think a lot people are listening to this now, which is part of the conversation. Detective-Sergeant Tramontozzi, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

NT: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye-bye

NT: Bye-bye now.

KG: Detective-Sergeant Nunzio Tramontozzi is the head of Toronto Police's sex crimes and human-trafficking enforcement team. We reached him in Toronto. And we should note that he told reporters last year the police force does work with Airbnb on this issue. AirBnB, Uber, and Lyft have said they are working to prevent human trafficking on their platforms with user education and other high-tech solutions. And last year, Nick Shapiro — AirBnB's global head of trust and risk management — told Reuters, quote: "We're taking a modern approach to combating modern slavery by leveraging the innovation of the sharing economy to better spot and stop potential exploitation ahead of time." Unquote.

[Music: Ambient]

Train close call

KG: Amanda Collins says she's lucky to be alive. Ms. Collins was driving across a snow-covered railway crossing in Ile-Perrot, Quebec on Wednesday when she got stuck. Then she saw the train. Her four-year-old daughter was in the car with her at the time. And they escaped a collision at the last moment. Ms. Collins spoke with Sue Smith, host of CBC's "Homerun", about the near-miss, starting when she drove onto the tracks.

SOUNDCLIP

AMANDA COLLINS: I crossed over the first set, and then in between the two, I kind of slid off to the right into a snowbank that was right on the second set of tracks. I almost got my car out, and then just before I think I would have gotten it out, I heard the train alarm start to go off, and I looked over, and the train was honking at me and coming at me. So I just jumped out, grabbed my daughter, and just watched my car get taken up the tracks.

SUE SMITH Oh my god, I cannot imagine what was going through your mind as you were trying to get your car out of the snow bank?

AC: Honestly, it was my daughter who had the biggest reaction. I just have a hard time even talking about it.

SS: Yeah.

AC: I just I've never seen her react like that to anything just with so much emotion. And so that kind of really hit me hard. And, of course, I was panicking about my car, and I was running on adrenaline, and I didn't even really react until a couple hours later.

SS: So you had your four-year-old daughter in the car, and she was presumably terrified. You grab her, and then what? Like where did you go?

AC: We took two steps back, and within seconds, it hit my car.

SS: What happened to the car?

AC: It got taken up the track, and like the impact of where the train hit was right where my daughter was sitting. I went into my car to get paperwork and stuff while it was on the tow truck, and her car seat was shattered.

SS: Oh, Amanda. How is she?

AC: I don’t even have words.

SS: No. How is she?

AC: She is amazing. I don't think she realizes how close she was to getting so hurt. She climbed into my bed with me this morning. We just cuddled, and it just hit me like a wall of bricks that I could have been waking up in the hospital. It just could have been so different. And I'm just I'm so thankful that she's ok.

KG: That was Amanda Collins speaking to Sue Collins, host of CBC's "Homerun", yesterday afternoon.

[Music: Ambient]

GM Mexico boycott

KG: Today in Toronto, Unifor national president Jerry Dias made an announcement he said his union had done everything to avoid making. But now, they no longer have any other option.

SOUNDCLIP

JERRY DIAS: Today, we are announcing that we will be launching a major campaign, urging Canadians and American consumers not to buy GM vehicles that are shipped from Mexico. So as GM has choices, Canadian and American consumers have choices. Because we need to remember when GM needed us the most, we were there for them. We’re asking Canadians to stand up to corporate greed. We're asking you to stand up to Greedy Motors. We want you to buy only GM vehicles that are made in Canada and in the United States.

KG: That was Unifor national president, Jerry Dias, speaking today at a press conference in Toronto. Unifor is the union representing General Motors workers in Oshawa, Ontario. Today's call for a boycott comes after GM announced last November that it would close the Oshawa plant by the end of this year. The closure will put 2,500 employees out of work. Today, Unifor also released an Ekos Research poll that said 45 per cent of Canadians support an outright boycott of GM. General Motors Canada responded to Unifor with a statement. The company says that, quote: "a call for a boycott of Mexico-made automobiles, if successful, could create collateral damage across the wider Ontario economy." Unquote. The statement also says that, in Canada right now, GM Unifor members make the transmissions and body panels that go into Mexican-made vehicles, which are eventually sold in Canada.

[Music: Ambient]

Hitler book

Guest: Michael Kent

KG: We don't know how many people read the book. But we can all be thankful no one was ever able to use it. Its German title translates into, "Statistics, Media, and Organizations of Jewry in the United States and Canada". But that doesn't quite convey how dangerous this book could have been. The book was part of Adolf Hitler's private library. It's really a report, prepared for the Nazis, on Jewish communities throughout North America. If the Germans had won the Second World War, it would have formed the basis for a terrifying campaign of persecution on this continent. And it has been acquired by Library and Archives Canada. Michael Kent is the curator of the Jacob M. Lowy Collection at the Library. We reached him in Ottawa.

CO: Mr. Kent, why did Library and Archives feel it was important to acquire this book.

MICHAEL KENT: as the national library for Canada, it's our role to work towards ensuring that we have every Canadian book ever. By Canadian, we mean either it's a book written by a Canadian, published in Canada, or in the case of this book, it's a book about Canada.

CO: It's a book about Canada in what respect? What is it about Canada?

MK: Really what this is almost is is a census of the American and Canadian Jewish communities. So how many Jews lived in Canada? How many in the United States? What was the breakdown by province? What was the breakdown by city? What was their ethnic background, their language background before coming to North America? it was published as a report in 1944. The researcher was doing fieldwork in the United States in 1936 and 1937. So the writing was sometime in the late thirties or early forties.

CO: So it's chilling enough to think that such a book would exist at that particular time. But I guess the most chilling part of it is who had owned the book. Can you tell us about that?

MK: So the book was the personal copy of Adolf Hitler. In 1945, when the American military captured Hitler's private villa, many of the soldiers took books from his library as souvenirs. It would have then come back to North America shortly after the war. The book eventually ended up in the collection of a Holocaust survivor in the United States, and it was recently acquired as part of a larger collection by a reputable Judaic book dealer in New York City.

CO: Who commissioned this information to be gathered?

MK: Heinz Kloss worked for a publishing house that was one of the official research units of the Nazi regime.

CO: So the Nazis actually commissioned this? They wanted this book of statistics, media, and organizations of Jewery in the United States and Canada?

MK: Yes, and I would highlight that this kind of report by the Nazis isn't unique to Canada and the United States. For example, there is that report often referred to as the Nazi Black Book. It was an appendix to the Nazi invasion plan for Great Britain, and it gave again detailed information on the communities there, as well as lists of individuals the Nazis particularly planned to target, had they invaded the United Kingdom.

CO: So how would the Nazis have used this information had they won the war?

MK: So instrumental to rolling out the Final Solution in Canada would have been knowing what cities to go to find Jewish people, and how many Jewish people they should expect to find in those cities, so that they could be removed from those towns and sent to concentration camps. This includes the major cities Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg, where we'd expect to see covered by such a report. We also see smaller communities such as Moose Jaw, such as Glace Bay, such as Trois-Rivières mentioned. And it seems that no community of Jews in Canada no matter how small was left out from this report.

CO: So Glace Bay, Nova Scotia is one of the communities. They went all over the place then.

MK: Yeah, right across the country, coast to coast.

CO: And where did they get the information from, principally?

MK: Kloss did do a research time in the United States, and developed relationships with Nazi sympathizers in the United States who likely did send him information. Also quoted in this report is the 1931 Canadian census.

CO: That nameplate inside this book thing from the library of Adolf Hitler, and with the swastika, the eagle. It was something obviously that mattered to him. He had it in his private collection. What would have been his designs? How would he have imagined, or how would the Nazis have imagined incorporating Canada and the United States into the Final Solution?

MK: The Nazis did imagine themselves having global reach. And they quite expected to win the Second World War, and that would have involved taking administrative control of North America. There was many in the Nazi regime that were quite interested in North America due to the many German immigrants that came to Canada and United States throughout the eighteen hundreds, and were still in the eyes the Germans, proper German ethnic stock. And I would highlight well this report specifically discusses the Jewish community of Canada United States, we know based off Nazi actions in Europe that a Final Solution in Canada would have included anyone from a racial minority, anyone from the Indigenous community, anyone from the LGBT community, anyone who is politically problematic to the Nazis, and frankly that list would go on.

CO: You know it's disturbing to know this book exists, isn't it? I mean just looking at it. And I understand that Library and Archives Canada has to not turn away from things that you wish didn't exist in the way of books. But what kind of reaction have you had from people who ask why would you acquire this? And if you did acquire this, why don't you just destroy it?

MK: Before we acquired it, we did reach out to several leaders within the Canadian Jewish community, as well as noted academics in the field of Holocaust memory in Canada, as well as many Holocaust educators. And many these people recognize we live in a time when knowledge about the Holocaust is on the decline, and Holocaust denial is on the rise. And everyone we spoke to recognize the importance now more than ever in preserving the memory of the Holocaust.

CO: So what do you do with people who want to not look at this book for purposes of research and understanding the horrors of the Holocaust, but people who would like to continue the Holocaust, or would support what Hitler was up to?

JK: Those people exist and have that mindset, whether or not we had this book, or whether or not this book existed. I can say that Library and Archives in Canada has an exceptional security team, and takes the security of all the researchers and all the members of the public in the building very seriously. Ultimately, I see this acquisition as being an important tool for Holocaust education and Holocaust memory. And that the benefit of raising the awareness about the Holocaust and giving a more nuanced Canadian understanding to the Holocaust, I think overwhelmingly outweighs the risk that somebody might be looking at this for a different reason.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there, Mr. Kent. Thank you.

MK: Thank you.

KG: That was Michael Kent, the curator of the Jacob M. Lowy collection at Library and Archives Canada. We reached him in Ottawa.

[Music: Ambient]

Gluten free robbery

KG: As robberies go, it was cookie-cutter. I don't mean it was just a standard robbery. I mean they cut some of the cookies. This past Sunday, thieves broke into Bliss Bakery in Peachland, British Columbia. But it wasn't the usual smash-and-grab. It was more of a break-in-and-selectively-remove. Co-owner Darci Yeo told Sarah Penton, host of CBC's "Radio West", what they took. And what they didn't.

SOUNDCLIP

DARCI YEO: Well, we had a call come in from the alarm company at three o'clock in the morning. Somebody had broken in. So we went down, and indeed somebody had broken in. They’d punched out the lock on the door. And in reviewing the video to see exactly what had gone on, they came in and stole four trays of cookies, and that was it.

SARAH PENTON: No cash?

DY: No cash. They didn't even look at anything else. They came in directly behind the counter, stacked the trays on top of one another, and cuddled them up, and ran out the door.

SP: And I understand they did leave some behind?

DY: Yes, they left behind the gluten free. So we've got a beautiful gluten free chocolate hazelnut cookie. And so it was a little insulting because they're pretty good cookies, and they seem to know exactly which ones they wanted, and left the gluten free behind. So obviously, they are not celiac.

SP: Are there other valuable things in your store they could have stolen? Is there cash on hand?

DY: We always leave the cash for open, so that people who are thieves can see that there's no cash available. And they didn't even look at the cash. They came in, bypassed it entirely, grabbed the cookies and left. It was really odd. It was like they had the munchies or something. It was like what do we want? We want cookies. They're not open. No problem, we're just gonna break the lock on the door and take what we want.

SP: How much damage did they cause?

DY: Fortunately, they didn't smash anything. They were considerate thieves in that way. They punched the lock out on the door, as opposed to smashing the glass. And I think it was the most affordable break in we've had.

KG: Darci Yeo, co-owner of Bliss Bakery in Peachland, BC, speaking with Sarah Penton on CBC's "Radio West". On Sunday, some hungry yet sort-of-thoughtful thieves broke into the bakery and stole four trays of cookies — but did not take the gluten-free ones. Given their thoughtfulness, Ms. Yeo has asked the thieves to please return the trays, which are special-order.

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January 25, 2019 episode transcript

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