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The Current Transcript for July 2, 2018

Host: Mike Finnerty

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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[Cheers]

Viva Mexico. Viva Mexico. Viva Mexico.

MF: A landslide Election victory for Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador in Mexico. He ran against the establishment against corruption and violence and now has a mandate to make sweeping reforms. For Canada his victory is a big change to a key trading partner in the midst of the NAFTA renegotiation. We'll examine what it all means in a moment. And then we go old school or as one of our guests puts it, archaic, when we discuss the importance then and now of pen pals.

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I could tell Holly anything because he was in Nova Scotia. So she wasn't going to go to school and blab say Oh did you know that Shelley was going to do this. Or did you know that so and so said something bad about Shelley.

MF: Long time pen pals from Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia meet after more than half a century. In Half an hour we'll hear from both of them on how that went. And then we travelled to Chicago where putting pen to paper is bringing teenagers from a divided city together. Also today the Man in Motion, Rick Hansen.

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I was hitchhiking home from a fishing trip and I got a ride in the back of a pickup truck. The driver went around a corner and lost control and threw me against a big steel toolbox and broke my back and damaged my spinal cord and the doctors told never me I would never walk again.

MF: Rick Hansen's inspirational life story and his appeal for greater accessibility for all, as Canadians get older and less mobile. That's in an hour. I am Mike Finnerty welcome to the summer edition of The Current.

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How will Mexico's new president shake up NAFTA negotiations?

Guests: Christopher Sands, Judith Teichman

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[Spanish speech]

[Cheers]

MF: A path for reconciliation from Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador in front of tens of thousands of flag waving supporters in Mexico City's central Zocalo Square. 'Set aside your personal interest, no matter how legitimate they may be' he told them. And then from the 64 year old leftist outsider a promise to defend social and individual freedoms, business freedom and freedom of expression. This is a stunning victory for the former mayor of Mexico City who is commonly referred to by his initials Amlo and who tried and failed to win the presidency twice before. This time his opponents conceded less than an hour after polls closed. And with votes still being counted that he's near 54 percent support in the lower house of the Congress. His party won more than 70 percent of the seats, it didn't even exist last time around. And as much as it's a victory for him it's a repudiation for the political establishment, Chief among them the outgoing president Enrique Pena Nieto and his PRI party. He remains president a very lame duck until December. Genaro Lozano has been closely monitoring the campaign and the election results. He's a columnist and professor of political science at Ibero American University in Mexico and Genaro Lozano is in Mexico City. Hello.

GENARO LOZANO: Hello good morning. How are you?

MF: Good morning. I'm well thanks but what's the night been like there in Mexico City?

GENARO LOZANO: It's been a [unintelligible] story tonight for Mexico. Thousands of people went to the public square the biggest public square in Mexico, Zocalo, so soccer to celebrate the victory. Its landslide victory as you were saying of Andres Manuel Lopex Obrador, El Peje, as we also call him. And I think that many people are very hopeful that things will change in Mexico. It is the first time that elected to win the presidency in our country. Exactly there is a conservative in the rest of Latin America. When a lot of its center right governments are taking place south of Mexico, and Mexico the left has won for the first time would really be Mexico's biggest landslide election. We've never had a president with more than 50 percent of the vote. And so I think that people were enthusiastic and honestly really happy of what's happened. Of course we have a lot of challenges. The first of them is probably to pacify the country he said to end the war on drugs that has killed over 200 people and disappeared another 30,000 people. He's of course will have the challenge of an American businessmen work with him because there are a lot of mistrust especially among upper classes in Mexico. There is a very big class divide in Mexico and it is true that over 50 percent of the population voted for him but the rest didn't. And especially upper middle class in Mexico are very distrustful of Lopez. And so he will have that nervous challenge of unifying the country, pacify corruption and of course standing and it will be the first presidency of Mexico as well with a majority of women running the government. For the first time he will have a cabinet. Mexico will have a cabinet with equal number of men and women. The biggest number of women we had before was only three female Secretaries of State and there will have just half of it. It will also be a historic moment when he takes that seat because you would probably have a majority of legislators in both chambers of Congress. This is also a historic achievement for this party which was just created in 2014. A party that started a social movement and now that it's institutionalized as the party will have both the presidency and its legislative chamber. His party also won't be in six contests that we're taking also place for [unintelligible] Mexico.

MF: So this is a huge victory for a party that didn't exist last time around. What kind of Mexican's voted for him?

GENARO LOZANO: I think that as you were saying this was a referendum on the core of the electoral platform and specifically President Pena Nieto's. And I think that most people who voted for him voted against Pena Nieto and against the PRI. His presidency started six years ago with a promise of making Mexico become part of the richer countries of the world. His presidency started by saying that he was going to win the war as well to make Mexico peaceful. In the end, six years after, he's going to leave the presidency with the lowest approval rating of the president in the history of Mexico with a lot of the scandals, corruption and conflicts of interest with a country that is more violent today, that in this electoral process a hundred and thirty six candidates were killed since last August. And I think that the people who voted for him, Obrador, are first of all, people who were angry at Pena Nieto. But second of all I think that he was able to turn that anger to hope. And I think he was able to gather around a lot of support from different sectors.

MF: He has in the past taken a much harsher tone and talked about- At one point he said to hell with your institutions. That was in 2006. But that wasn't the same man who ran this time, really, he was much softer this time. Tell us who he is, what we can expect from his character, his personality.

GENARO LOZANO: Sure. He ran for office. This is the third presidential runner. One was in 2006 and as you were saying he was mayor of Mexico City. And during hi s10 years the city started to implement a lot of social programs that have made of Mexico City both the richest city in the country and also that the most liberal. The city has same sex marriages, abortion rights, he has the best transportation in the country. That is very it's actually the cultural capital in the Spanish world. And I think that's one of the main actors for [unintelligible]. When he ran for office he was very angry because there was a negative campaign against him, run by a candidate, a campaign that started to compare started to compare [unintelligible] to Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. And it was a very vicious campaign and it lasted for less than 1 percent of the vote. He lost actually for point Five percent of the vote. And he mistrusted the electoral resources and he told Reform Avenue she said you guessed it Mexico the most important. He stayed there for a couple of weeks, actually six weeks I think if I remember correctly, with thousands of his supporters.

MF: And he's no longer that angry figure. In fact he'd been sort of transformed into it at least in terms of popular opinion a slightly cuddly figure on social media. What about what his relationship with Donald Trump?

GENARO LOZANO: Yes, just to end the last question. He's now the very next grandpa. That will enjoys millions, the grandpa who enjoys everything. He learned that from the 2006 campaign in which he made people not voting for him because of his anger, 2006 he was very sick. He had a heart problem that he was actually moderated a presidential debate posted on 2012 and I remember him coming to visit, completely exhausted. He was just coming from central Mexico by car and he asked me for a coffee. He was about to sleep. We couldn't get him the coffee because [unintelligible] didn't have coffee. And he lost at the 2012 election. And now in this election he's really a very different man.

MF: Genaro, we only have about a minute left. Could you give us an idea how he's likely to size up to Donald Trump and what that should mean for NAFTA?

GENARO LOZANO: He wrote a book called Listen Trump and it's very conciliatory. He claims that the U.S. is the most important relationship for Mexico. He says he will send [unintelligible]. He's never threatened of leaving the treaty and he has claimed that he wants to work with Trump to build a more just treaty for the three countries, a treaty that protects worker's rights and the salary of workers. I don't think that he, unlike Trump, he been mixing on what NAFTA has got for Mexico and for Canada. And I think that's he is going to probably try to visit Donald Trump in Washington as soon as he can because I don't think he will invite him to Mexico. Because there will be huge demonstration in Mexico.

MF: Genaro, we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much for being with us early this morning from Mexico City. Appreciate it.

GENARO LOZANO: Thank you.

MF: Bye bye. Genaro Lozano is a columnist and professor of political science at the Ibero American University in Mexico and he was in Mexico City. Prime Minister Trudeau congratulated Amlo last night on his victory saying "I look forward to working closely with him to a deep" and what he called "the vibrant partnership between our two countries". The Mexican president elect has been critical of NAFTA in the past and in June he said Mexico could survive the collapse of the deal by focusing instead on internal markets. His win at the polls could have serious consequences for Canada according to Duncan Wood of the Wilson Center's Mexico Institute.

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We have no idea what his relationship with Canada whether he sees Canada as being an important ally for Mexico. He is more likely to accept a bilateral deal with the United States which would have dramatic implications for Canada. You know you could imagine a situation where candidates left isolated and left to negotiate with the United States on its own.

MF: For their take on what Amlo's election could mean for the future of NAFTA, we are joined by two guests Christopher Sands who's a professor and director of the Centre for Canadian Studies at Johns Hopkins University. He's in Silver Spring Maryland. Also with us is Judith Teichman, a professor of Political Science and International Development at the University of Toronto. She's in Muskoka here in Ontario. Hello to you both.

JUDITH TEICHMAN: Hello.

CHRISTOPHER SANDS: Good morning.

MF: Judith Teichman, that suggestion from Duncan Wood, first of all, that Mr. Lopez Obrador could cut a bilateral deal with the Americans leaving Canada isolated. What do you think?

JUDITH TEICHMAN: Well first of all I think that the power that wants a bilateral deal is Donald Trump. That has been very clearly stated. Mexico does have to have an agreement with the U.S. because its economy is so closely integrated. I think that probably if we're going in the direction of bilateral agreements that will be one with Canada and one with Mexico. The problem with a bilateral agreement between Mexico and the U.S. is that Amlo has to be very careful because he could be accused of caving. It depends on how that agreement and its development [unintelligible], if it should occur. As you'll recall with Pena Nieto when he was seen as caving to Donald Trump by inviting him to Mexico there were widespread protests in the streets of Mexico and a great deal of animosity towards the government. So if it turns out that there's bilateral deals then Amlo Is really between a rock and a hard place because he desperately needs an agreement with the United States, on the one hand. And on the other hand he can't be seen as moving towards an agreement that doesn't work well for Mexico. Now if he comes out and says that the agreement is good for Mexico you can rest assured that Donald Trump is going to tweet something very different, and it will be something along the lines of 'oh no it's better for the United States' which is going to create political problems for Amlo . So the scenario is going to be a very difficult one.

MF: Chris Sands how likely do you think it is that Amlo would abandon trilateral negotiations?

CHRISTOPHER SANDS: I was just going to say I think it's difficult to know as Duncan Wood has said in the in the lead in. It's hard to know what Amlo thinks of Canada as a partner. Canada has done an amazing job I think in the context of the after negotiations since Justin Trudeau came in to office to try to boost Canada-Mexico relations and develop really personal relationships with key figures in Mexico. That's a real change. Stephen Harper had a much more contentious relationship with Mexico and at the same time Amlo is an anti-establishment politician who is going to shake things up in Mexico probably bring in a lot of new faces. So Canada has a lot of work ahead of it trying to develop the kind of rapport, that so far that after negotiations both Canada and Mexico had said we're not going to be played off of one another. We're going to keep a common front. And I think the challenge is keeping that common front going. It'll be a lot harder I think with new players in Mexico. Not impossible though.

MF: You have a theory that the renegotiation of NAFTA on this election of the new Mexican president could lead to a snap Canadian election.

CHRISTOPHER SANDS: Well yes actually because I think one of the interesting things is that during the after negotiation elections have always been sort of in the backdrop we've been focused on this Mexican election almost from the beginning as a key turning point. But right if we go into a scenario with two parallel bilateral agreements with the U.S. Mexico would probably be first in line. Amlo, he wants a deal he would like to settle some of that after uncertainty. It's interesting I think in some ways Amlo is a kind of mash up of Donald Trump and Justin Trudeau. Like Donald Trump, he's an anti-establishment populist who has a whole bunch of new faces new people and limited experience in government which could be a factor as well as majority in the legislature. On the other hand like Justin Trudeau he's a progressive who cares a lot about the income inequality that exists in Mexico. Who's looking for something that will help the poor. So that dynamic I think is quite interesting. Now if we are moving to that territory the problem is that Justin Trudeau has an election in October of 2019 expected. And what you could see is Donald Trump in the U.S. pushing Canada up against its election to put more pressure on Justin Trudeau. It might be in Trudeau's interest to call a snap election and get a mandate with which to go back to the table but not then have to worry that the Donald Trump will be tweeting to try to undermine him and the Liberal government during the negotiations and forced concessions.

MF: Judith Teichman, Amlo is the former mayor of Mexico City but comes from southern Mexico and identifies with the people from there with lots of support from small farmers, corn farmers. How important is that in the whole NAFTA context?

JUDITH TEICHMAN: Well he has won by a landslide but he has a solid social base of probably about one third of the voting public. And you're right a lot of that is centered in southern Mexico with poor farmers. So the impact of NAFTA on agriculture has been an important part of the sorts of things he's been talking about. So he does have to take a position on agriculture. Now how he'll do that is I think open to question. He has talked about subsidies generous subsidies to small farmers because of course they've been decimated and they're there they're strong supporters of Amlo. He's also talked about labor protection which is an area that he might find agreement with Canada on. So I think those are the kinds of issues that that will come forward. But I think one of the things we need to remember is that Amla has come to power with 53 percent of the vote and he has support from a lot of people that are not from that traditional support base. He's also recruited people from the political right and the political left into his new party. So he has a very heterogeneous constituency to which he has to answer. And the question in my mind is whether how much different his government is going to be from previous ones, because one thing you have to remember is that ammo started out in the PRI which is the party that was just defeated. He has enormous amount of political spirit. He was mayor of Mexico City. He has a lot of allies but they're not all from the political left. So it's possible I mean we really don't know what kind of a government he's going to be. We don't know the extent to which he's going to maintain the promises he made to his political base. So we really don't know what's going to happen. Oftentimes in Latin America you get governments that are elected promising to help the poor and make things different and they don't make things very different because they have ended up coming to power with area rhetoric that are very heterogeneous support base. So it's quite possible that he might not change things all that much. And his government might not look that much different now that would be a terrible scenario given the high expectations that have been raised. But you know it is a possibility.

MF: It's a big change though isn't it, Chris Sands, this morning in Mexico?

CHRISTOPHER SANDS: I think it's a big change and for Canadians there are two people I think are worth watching as this unfolds. Remember that the inauguration isn't till December 1 of 2018. So we're going to have this period in which the governments will overlap and the Pena Nieto government particularly the negotiation team will try to bring in some of Lopez Obrador as people to people to watch. One is going to be Jesus Seade Helu who has been designated already by Lopez Obrador as his NAFTA negotiator. He's a very well-known figure. He was Mexico's negotiator, trade negotiator for the Uruguay Round. He was the IMF official here in Washington for more than a decade. He was the first WTO deputy director general when the two was set up after the Uruguay round. And he's known Bob Tiser the U.S. trade representative for more than 20 years. Just to say he's an important figure knows the situation well. Pierre Alarie Canada's ambassador in Mexico City also key guy with a lot of corporate experience. He has a lot of relationships to build up in the next couple of months.

MF: And we have to end it there. Thank you both very much for joining us. Great to talk to you.

CHRISTOPHER SANDS: Great talking to you.

MF: Christopher Sands director of the Center for Canadian Studies at Johns Hopkins University in Silver Spring Maryland and Judith Teach-In Professor of Political Science and International Development at the University of Toronto. She was in Muskoka. You were listening to the summer edition of The Current. And my name is Mike Finnerty. We're talking about pen pals in the next half hour of the program.

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The pen pal project: How a Chicago charity taught teens the joy of letter writing

Guests: Shelley Rutherford, Holly Ferguson, Maria Villreal

MIKE FINNERTY: Hello I'm Mike Finnerty. You're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

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MF: Still to come: 30 years after his Man in Motion tour, Rick Hansen says Canada still has miles to go before people with disabilities have full access to public spaces. That story in half an hour. First, the best of pals.

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MF: They've known each other for 56 years but they only just met in person., and that's because Shelley Rutherford and Holly Ferguson live 4000 kilometers away. Shelly's from Kelvington Saskatchewan and Holly lives in Enfield Nova Scotia and the two became pen pals back in 1961. Last week was the first time they met in person at Holly's place. Putting pen to paper, writing letters to a pen pal might seem like a quaint old fashioned tradition. There is something unique about the kind of correspondence and the relationship it fosters, and in a few minutes we're going to hear about a new pen pal program bringing together teenagers in Chicago. First we have Shelley and Holly on the line. Shelley Rutherford, she's in the midst of her road trip around the Maritimes and we reached her and Wagmatcook Nova Scotia. Holly Furgeson is at her home in Enfield Nova Scotia hello to you both.

HOLLY FURGESON: Hello.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Hi Mike. Hi Holly.

HOLLY FURGESON: Hi Shelley. This is the second time we've talked on the phone.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Yes. The second time. That's right.

MIKE FINNERTY: All those years of writing and that's only the second time you've ever talked on the phone.

HOLLY FURGESON: Yes. She had just come out here for us to talk on the phone.

MF: Holly why did it take so long for the two of you to meet in person?

HOLLY FURGESON: Hmm. That's a good question, isn't it, Shelley?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Yes.

HOLLY FURGESON: We just enjoyed writing so much. And I don't know Saskatchewan seemed like a long distance. So I never had any reason to go our except maybe to visit her. I don't know the years just went by and here we are.

MF: That is a long distance isn't it, Shelley?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Yes It is yes. When you said 4000 clicks or something, I thought, Oh yeah I didn't realize.

MF: Can you take us back, Shelley? Those 56 years ago, how did the pen pal relationship start?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: You know I'm not sure whether we've discussed 10,000 school and maybe that was an assignment to get a pen pal. I don't think so. I just think that I wanted to get some mail that was addressed only to me. So I thought a Pen pal would be a good way to do it. So I put an ad in the Western, Producer which was a weekly Western paper, and Holly answered the ad.

MF: Holly, in Nova Scotia. You ended up seeing an ad and the Western Producer?

HOLLY FURGESON: Yes my father used to order that paper. I have no idea why except that he was interested in farming although that's not what he did for a living. But I enjoyed the pen pal page so as soon as it came I opened it to that page and there was Shelley's name.

MF: Was there other ads, or why did you pick up on her ad?

HOLLY FURGESON: Well I have no idea that was so long ago but I'll tell you I was kind of a pen pal nut back then so I had quite a few pen pals and she sounded like a good one so I had to write her.

MF: Shelley do you remember the first letter?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: I do. Yes. Do I have it? No, but I do remember. I was so excited to get my own mail.

MF: Do you remember anything that she said in it?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: To be specific, I don't remember exactly what she said, just that she was looking for a pen pal and she didn't have one in Saskatchewan. So I wrote back and told her I would be the one.

MF: Holly, What kind of letters did you write back in those days? What were the what were the hot topics?

HOLLY FURGESON: [Chuckles] Socialize I guess. When we first started we were like 10 years old. I think probably finding out about each other's lives in the respective parts of Canada, and then of course when we got into teen years you know what would be in letters then. We had lots of social things going on.

MF: Did you write to each other about crushes and boyfriends?

HOLLY FURGESON: Oh. Yes. Yes.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Absolutely yes.

[Laughter]

MF: How long were the letters?

HOLLY FURGESON: Shelley did you say there was one of 15 pages?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Oh yeah that wasn't infrequent. When we initially started writing it could easily be 15 pages long. We even tried to maybe outdo each other and get a longer better to go back.

HOLLY FURGESON: Yes.

MF: There were there moments that stick out where, Shelley, that maybe she was able to help you through something that you might not have been able to get help from someone else closer by?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Well I think the way that it helped was the fact that you could tell Holly anything because she was in Nova Scotia. So she wasn't going to go to school and blab and say 'Oh did you know that Shelley was going to do this?' Or 'Did you know that so-and-so said something about Shelly'. No one else would know whatever I told Holly. So that if you know something was really bothering me I probably told her.

MF: Was that a two way street that type of relationship for you Holly?

HOLLY FURGESON: Oh yes yes I'm sure I told her things that I didn't tell anybody else because I knew telling her they wouldn't sprint around, round the community, or around school. Yes.

MF: How frequent was the correspondence? I mean how often were you sending off letters?

HOLLY FURGESON: Would you say twice a month, Shelley?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Oh yes. All of that. I mean initially when you got a letter you wrote a letter. So you know mail took probably a week to get to Nova Scotia, so you know once every 10 days or so we probably got letters.

MF: Over the years the letters continued, Holly? Did the frequency drop off a bit?

HOLLY FURGESON: Oh yes. After we were married we didn't write near as often. And then when our kids came along we wrote even less and now it's down to once a year and a Christmas card we catch up on the past year.

MF: But do you still actually put pen to paper?

HOLLY FURGESON: Yes we do.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Absolutely. That's the exciting thing about getting the Christmas gift is there's always a Christmas card on top. So you can't open the gift yet but you can open the card and read the letter.

MF: What about email?

HOLLY FURGESON: Novel idea.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Well I think lately we've been doing that but you know email you say two or three things maybe a sentence or two and that's the end of it. You don't get long and involved on an email.

HOLLY FURGESON: No.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Too public.

MF: Not quite the same.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Not the same.

MF: Shelley tell us what happened to finally get you both together in person.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Well we still live in Saskatchewan of course some friends of ours invited us to come along with them to tour the Maritimes. And we had never been here and it was always a trip we wanted to do and we said yes we're going to do it. And Holly had actually emailed me before that and said there was a possibility she would be coming to Saskatchewan. As it happens those plans didn't come to fruition. So when I wrote or emailed or said, guess what? We're going to be in Halifax she said: 'Well you must stay with us'.

MF: So the big day came Holly?

HOLLY FURGESON: Yes it did. I was maybe a little anxious not sure of what it was going to be like when I met her. They drove up the lane and she get out of the car and I knew right then it was going to be fine. We went to each other and gave each other a hug, it was like we knew each other forever.

MF: There's a bond that somehow got made through all those letters I guess.

HOLLY FURGESON: I guess that would be it. Yes.

MF: Shelley what about for you?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Yes the same thing. I didn't think I was anxious until I started thinking about those a couple of days before and then I thought oh no. What if we are sitting There on the couch and we can't think of a thing to say and it's kind of uncomfortable. And as it turned out I got out of the car and she came down the stairs of a deck. We gave each other a big hug. We had a glass of wine on the deck and the six of us talked like we'd been old friends for years.

MF: What happens now with the two of you? How does the friendship evolve?

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Oh, they are coming to Saskatchewan.

HOLLY FURGESON: We are.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: We have been planning for two days now.

MF: After all these years you're probably going to make the trip to do. Holly what made you decide?

HOLLY FURGESON: Well I am inquisitive about Saskatchewan. I know it's very different from Nova Scotia and now knowing that I have a real true friend there it would be great to visit see everything and see her again.

MF: It is a great place to visit. I'm actually from Saskatchewan so I'm a little bit [unintelligible].

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Oh there. Now we have that I was going to say that's a rude answer.

MF: Thank you both very much for being with us today sharing those tales from your long pen pal of friendship and hope the trip goes well to Saskatchewan, Holly and all the best.

HOLLY FURGESON: Thank you.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Thank you so much.

MF: Nice to talk to you.

HOLLY FURGESON: And bye bye, Shelley. We'll see you and talk to you again, I'm sure.

SHELLEY RUTHERFORD: Okay. Sounds good.

HOLLY FURGESON: Good. Bye bye.

MF: Shelley Rutherford, Holly Ferguson, they've been pen pals for the last 56 years, Shelley from Kelvington Saskatchewan and Holly in Enfield Nova Scotia.

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[Music]

IVAN: Dear Mauricio, I would do a formal greeting but I don't really roll that way. So what's up? Also I have bad handwriting so you might not be able to read this but whatever. I would like to know your interests. What games do you play? Are you in a school? Probably not. Do you draw? Or you just respect people who draw? Do you think you're better than me? What's your favorite music? Well enough talk about you. Let's talk about me. I'm Ivan. I am 13 years old not academically achieving. I see you are a goofy guy. So I'd like to ask you, are you popular for your funniness? I am. Ivan.

MAURICIO: Dear Ivan. What's up bro? I'm just bored in life right now. The weather isn't good for anything. You feel me? By the way I'm 15 and my birthday is August 1st. How about you? I suck at drawing so I respect people who can do amazing drawings, just from their mind. And well of course. I think I'm better than you. What a silly question to ask. I'm older and I have more life experience and things or situations. It says here to write about the best they are life. I don't really have one. So, you can tell me about your best day. Mauricio.

MF: A couple of Toronto teens reading the letters of two teenagers from Chicago. Ivan and Mauricio who were two of 62 students who took part in a special pen pal program in 2016. It was both literary exercise and social experiment organized by a non-profit group called 826 Chicago. The students attended schools at opposite ends of the city and over the course of a year they got to know each other through letters. They've since been gathered together into a book called P.S. You Seem Like Someone I can trust. Joining us now is one of the people behind the project she's Marie Villareal who's the director of programs for 826 Chicago. Maria hello.

MARIA VILLAREAL: Hello. How are you?

MF: I'm good. Thanks very much. Where did the idea come from to do this?

MARIA VILLAREAL: The idea came from a book called Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed. She has a podcast where people write in to her, to ask for advice and she writes back with like empathy and full of- giving pieces of herself. Her stories like connect with that person to give them advice and so we thought could that happen with students in Chicago. Could they build connections through their words just through writing on the page.

MF: How different were the schools you linked up?

MARIA VILLAREAL: Not so different. They both had similar populations of nothing next to them. Just I think grade and where they are in Chicago made a difference.

MF: They are quite far away as Chicago is such a you know a big city geographically how far away were they?

MARIA VILLAREAL: Yes. [Unintelligible] about 20 15 miles apart. So one eight graders were in Little Village on a South Side school and 10 graders in North side school. So very opposite ends of the city.

MF: Yes. And then not people who would run into each other.

MARIA VILLAREAL: No not at all.

MF: How did you match them up?

MARIA VILLAREAL: So we gave them sort of a profile to fill out. We asked them questions about what their favorite music was. What attracted them to music, was the lyrics? Was it a melody? What was their favorite books were? What they recommend on Netflix? Different things. What they watched on YouTube? And then based on those sorts of things we saw what could be matched up and what could be challenging. So we did that.

MF: So you go to these teens and you tell them I want you to write a letter. What they say when you suggest that?

MARIA VILLAREAL: That was really funny because they didn't understand. Some of them were like 'what is letter? What are you talking about? Can we trade social media? Can I just give them my Snapchat?' And I was like No no no. This is we're trying to figure out if we can just write our stories out and connect with other people and so it's very basic and bring in examples of letters. Talk about what the body of a letter looks like. You know what a greeting was, what the ending should be. All of these different things. So we got that part but then it was like 'well what do I say?' And those students were given writing prompts to try and get to their stories, trying to think about how long they live the life because every day they do something and they're trying to figure out what are those things that you do. Let's talk about those things.

MF: What were the first letters like?

MARIA VILLAREAL: Oh they were so short. So they weren't quite sure what to write about and so they would just write anything. And so they ended up writing you know 'dear person'. They describe themselves in their height and when their birthday was and then they asked a lot of questions and then they said goodbye. And so there wasn't a lot of vulnerability on the page. It was just kind of like 'this is who I am. Who are you?' They were trying to get to know each other but they were very short.

MF: And were they a bit disappointed to get short letters from each other?

MARIA VILLAREAL: They were not thrilled at the short letters. When they received the letter and they were so short they're like 'well what do I do with it?' I will go, well what do you think? And they were like 'well I can't there's nothing here for me?' And I'm like well how would you get something. And so just trying to figure out like if I give more maybe I will get more. And so I was like This is kind of what you have to do you have to give a little bit more of yourself. Tell them more, tell a story. And so we started bringing in deeper writing prompts for them to connect more to themselves to bring it to the page.

MF: And how did that work, persuading them to be vulnerable and to share what sort of things started to come out?

MARIA VILLAREAL: Sure. So the way that it works I think that the staff and the teachers we had to share ourselves and our stories about what we would say. And then they started to tell more about their lives which was really cool. 10th graders were starting to ask 8 readers for advice around friendships. Eighth graders were asking, were really nervous about high school and definitely asking more about that. And we asked them to lean into what do you want to know? Maybe the other person has something to teach you or show you. They definitely start talking about their lives and their families about how they've lost fathers and what that means to them or how they're connected to their parents and how some of them their parents are immigrants and what that means to them and what it means to live in a city in Chicago. They talked about beautiful bike ride up and down the city. Stuff the students that used that we hear youth are doing in the city but they were exploring and figuring out themselves. So this curiosity which was a beautiful thing to watch.

MF: Maria stand by because we're going to listen in on one of the exchanges that we have voiced up. This is between two of the girls who participated Jasmine Rodriguez and Vanessa Cruz. Here we go.

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[Music]

VANESSA: Hi Jasmine. Nice to meet you. My name is Vanessa. I live with my mom my brother and my three dogs and my two birds. My dad passed away. My neighborhood is Gage Park. I don't mind that we moved here. First my mom broke her arm and she got in a fight with my dad's family. So we decided to not live near them. I was wondering if I could ask you questions when's your birthday? How old are you? I hope you and I have a lot in common. At first I didn't want new friends because I'm scared of talking to people. So we'll be pretty cool to hang out with you and maybe become friends. Sincerely Vanessa Cruz. P.S. By the way Jasmine you sound like a person I can trust.

JASMINE: Dear Vanessa. It's really nice to meet you too. My birthday is in the summer. August 4th. I'm 15 years old. My favorite hobbies are reading and sport. I'm really sorry about your father's passing. How old were you when it happened? How do you cope with the loss of your father? I would love to become friends with you Vanessa and to see you or hang out sometime. You honestly put the biggest smile on my face when you told me I sound like a person you could trust. Sincerely Jasmine Rodriguez. P.S. You're a humble person and I'm so glad you feel like you can trust me.

MF: Maria when you listen back to those letters boy scout what sticks out to you?

MARIA VILLAREAL: I feel like I get emotional because I remember them at first thinking like 'I what do I even say here?' And these are one of their first pairs of letters and these two young women were very shy very quiet during class time but really put themselves on the page. And it was just beautiful to see that happen and their connection is long lasting. They're actually still friends even after the project has ended.

MF: And they haven't transitioned into snap chat.

MARIA VILLAREAL: I think they did. I think they did because that's how you I guess connect the most. But they do I think still write letters every now and then or I know some of the students started to write letters to each other because they felt that there was more meaningfulness in a longer piece that they could hand to someone instead of a text.

MF: Maria it's great to talk to you. Thank you very much for speaking to us. Appreciate it.

MARIA VILLAREAL: Thanks for having me.

MF: Bye bye. Maria Villareal who is director of programs for 826 Chicago. And you can read these letters in a book. The group published it's called P.S. You Seem Like Someone I can Trust. We thought you'd like to hear a bit more from Jasmine and Vanessa and their pen pal letters.

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[Music]

VANESSA: Dear Jasmine I'm glad I can put a big smile on your face. When my dad died. I was about 1 year and 3 months old. When I was small and saw little girls hanging out with both of their parents. I would get jealous because I thought it was unfair. At age 8 I realized that they should appreciate that they have both of their parents. Sometimes I wear my dad's perfume and it makes me sad. Thank you for giving me a smile too because I was sad until I read your letter. Sincerely Vane. P.S. By the way if you want you can call me Vane. Everyone calls that.

JASMINE: Dear Vane, I want to tell you a story about myself. I don't have a father figure in my life. I grew up missing that part just like you. My father is alive but he's like a dad rose in my heart. He was never there. He wasn't even there when I was born. Being raised by a single mother is the most powerful thing my mother had me at the age of 19. My father was 25. He acted as though he had no brain, no emotions. He cheated on my mother and even tried saying I wasn't his. My mother is the most independent woman and she inspires me to be the person I am today. Do I fail? Yes of course I do. But I pick myself up. My mother is my rock. But yes I do wish I could be in my father's life. I wish I could be daddy's girl. I understand your feelings Vane. It hurt and bothers me when I see others with their fathers, especially when they don't appreciate them.

VANESSA: Hey Jasmine, I'm happy for you. You kept going. You are very strong. Now I feel like I really know you and have been friends with you for a long time. I know we are just getting to know each other but I hope you know that I'm here for you. Like I said I know how it feels to have no dad. After reading your letter I knew I should keep going knowing he's happy wherever he is. Like you could go on without your father. Love, Vane.

JASMINE: I'm so glad you could really and appreciate my story I told you. It was hard to open up about him but I know it's probably harder not to have your father alive. You're a strong minded person and I'm going to give you this advice. Don't ever make yourself someone you're not in high school. Keep that trait of yourself going into high school. It will either make people intimidated by you or respectful of you for that. Like I am. Don't ever tell yourself you can't do something or break when that's what some people want to see. I give you this because I wish someone would have told me. Be Wise and always stay as humble as you are now. Love, Jasmine. P.S. You'll always be my best friend.

MF: Letters there, actual letters, between two Chicago teenagers Jasmine and Vanessa collected as part of the book. P.S. You Seem Like Someone I Can Trust. They were edited for length and voiced by friends of the show here. We'd love to hear your pen pal stories and you can go to our website cbc.ca/thecurrent And click on the contact link. And yes you can put a pen to paper rather in the old fashioned way and write us a letter. Our address is still The Current P.O. Box 500 Station A Toronto M5W1E6.

SOUNDCLIP

[Song: Pen Pals by Sloan]

MF: Sloan song Pen Pals and coming up in our next half hour, his man emotion to erase millions in the name of disability rights. Three decades later Rick Hansen sees a new urgency to adapt our cities and buildings to an aging population. I'm Mike Finnerty. You're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

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30 years after Man in Motion tour, Rick Hansen still fighting for accessibility

Guest: Rick Hansen

[Music: Adaptation theme]

SOUNDCLIP

[Cheers]

JANE CHALMERS: They [unintelligible] finish up last, a yellow ribbon at the spot in a Vancouver shopping mall where Rick Hansen began his global journey.

[Cheers and applause].

JANE CHALMERS: 40,000 kilometres and 26 months later a triumphant Hansan is home.

RICK HANSEN: I want to thank you for believing in the potential of a disabled persons because we all have hopes and dreams.

MF: Believe it or not - that was 31 years ago. You heard the CBC's Jane Chalmers reporting for The National, on May 22nd, 1987. It was the final day of Rick Hansen's remarkable journey around the world - the "Man in Motion World Tour." He was a world class athlete, giving it his all in the fight for accessibility – And, three decades later, he still is. More than ever, Rick Hansen believes that society needs to adapt to the needs of people with disabilities - because every year that includes more of us. And, just because it's the right thing to do. Rick Hansen spoke with Anna Maria Tremonti last September as part of our season-long project, Adaptation. Here again is Rick Hansen.

RICK HANSEN: Hi Anna Maria, it's great to be here thank you.

AMT: Well it's nice to have you with us and I'm just wondering, what do you think when you hear yourself three decades ago?

RICK HANSEN: Wow. I first think boy you were young. And then I think back and I go, you know, good for you. Like, I mean you actually hung in there and you were able to finish and finish with integrity and how did you manage to inspire all those people to join you? And I'm just so grateful that that happened. That there were so many champions who came in to help me turn that dream into a reality.

AMT: How much money did you raise?

RICK HANSEN: We generated 26 million dollars. And it's interesting when we were about ready to leave on the tour, it was so frustrating just to literally be able to actually take that first stroke out of Oakridge mall. And we thought, man it was so hard to just start this. Why would we just settle for trying to raise a million dollars? Let's set a big crazy goal like 10 million dollars and see what happens. And of course we ended up generating 26 million dollars. And the awareness was the primary purpose and asking people to think and change lives and remove barriers. But you know, the money was important as well. And it was fantastic.

AMT: You weren't always in a wheelchair what happened?

RICK HANSEN: Yeah, I was 15-years-old. You know, I was an all-star athlete in my little hometown in Williams Lake, British Columbia. Had dreams of maybe one day representing Canada at the Olympic Games. And then I was hitchhiking home from a fishing trip and I got a ride in the back of a pickup truck and the driver went around a corner and he lost control and threw me against a big steel toolbox and broke my back and damaged my spinal cord. And then the doctors told me I'd never walk again.

AMT: And what did you do to adapt to that reality at the time?

RICK HANSEN: You know, it was a huge dark period for me and I didn't have much hope. I didn't see possibility because I didn't know anyone with a disability. And so for me it was like taking this this dark canvas of despair and painting it with little pricks of light to be able to create texture and colour and possibility. And that could only come to personal contact with role models. People who had been there before me, who didn't stop, who carved a life for themselves. And if I could know them and see them and then think about my life differently and adapt and make choices, that I could actually still go forward and still be the athlete I wanted to and realize nowhere in the definition of an athlete does it say you have to use your legs in order to be one. That Paralympic sport existed. That gave me new hope and helped me pick up the pieces and keep going.

AMT: So you found a mentor?

RICK HANSEN: I found a mentor, a special mentor, a fellow named Stan Strong. He was one of the first surviving people with spinal cord injury, injured in the thirties. And when I complained about being in the hospital for four months, he was there for four years. And he didn't have any rehab centres and he really didn't have anything. And yet he lived with this incredible optimism, he saw in the pain and suffering he saw beauty, he saw love. He, you know, he saw ability and he ended up reaching out to the next generation of kids like me to say come on, you know, you don't have to stop here. And he was a mentor. He was a manager for our wheelchair basketball team and of course then he inspired me to go and make a difference by recruiting Terry Fox after he lost his leg to cancer and having him join our team. And so he inspired two young Canadians in his selfless service and his optimism about potential. And what an amazing Canadian Stan Strong is.

AMT: It's good to know his story. So you were already competing athletically internationally before the Man in Motion tour.

RICK HANSEN: That's correct. I went on to specialize in wheelchair track and marathoning. Went to Paralympic Games World Championships. And as a matter of fact that became in many ways a lot of my inspiration. They say you have to see challenges or injustice to be inspired to do something about it. And traveling the world representing my country I faced so many barriers. I didn't just face my own attitudinal barrier, but others of me and my colleagues and friends. And then the physical barriers everywhere we went. I mean, getting into an airplane, you know, going to a hotel, trying to get into a taxi, getting up curb cuts. I mean, storage in restaurants...

AMT: Or looking for the curb cut.

RICK HANSEN: Yeah.

AMT: Not being a curb cut. Right?

RICK HANSEN: And so all of these things were so prevalent. And I just thought, you know, I can do something about this. You know, I can take my talents as an athlete as a marathoner and pick up a challenge like wheeling around the world and demonstrating the potential and hopefully creating some kind of movement. And that was my inspiration to do the Man in Motion tour.

AMT: And you mentioned Terry Fox because you knew each other, you were friends. What role did his Marathon of Hope play in that as well?

RICK HANSEN: It was not as huge because as a friend, you know, Terry was inspired first of all by an amputee who did a marathon in the Boston or New York Marathon. And he thought oh my gosh that guy can do a marathon and so I can do a marathon. And then eventually he thought about his Marathon of Hope to help cure cancer. And I watched Terry of course I, you know, I was there as a friend. And then I was there as a Canadian cheerleader and supporter. And then we were all devastated when he was forced to stop his journey. And, you know, as time went on I had this dream of wheeling around the world as an adventure and as a challenge, you know, as a young kid, but never really ever thought about how it might connect with actually a purpose. Until I was talking to folks about Terry and realizing that a takeaway that wasn't part of Terry’s journey was that they were actually seeing him and his ability and they were translating that to how they viewed other people with disabilities. So indirectly he was actually creating awareness about the potential of people with disabilities because, you know, who would think that a guy on one leg could hop across the country. And so it really helped me to galvanize my purpose and use my talent to be able to actually go after a dream but with purpose and really have it try to make a difference.

AMT: And it's worth saying I remember there used to be a public service ad on TV that said sometimes the greatest disability is those who are able bodied who refuse to see what we are able to do, kind of thing.

RICK HANSEN: Correct. Yeah. And of course it's all about attitude and awareness and perception. And so and I think what happens too is if you see people who happen to have an attitude that disability is like a death sentence or something to be pitied or nothing but limitation or if they see the wheelchair as a symbol of disability or the cane or the hearing device, then or the walker, then what happens is that you handicap yourself. And of course, you know, as aging boomers come into this field of having to deal with disabilities it's really vital that they don't have those old stereotypes that might have been relevant 30 or 40 years ago. In today's new world, you know, hey we all as Michael J. Fox would say, we all have a bag of hammers and let's normalize disability and get on with, you know, ability.

AMT: You know, it's really worth remembering 30 years ago I was a young reporter when Terry Fox started and then you started and I remember that at the very beginning people were saying well who are these guys? First who is that guy and who were you? Because like, you and Terry Fox really pioneered that idea of doing extreme athletic endeavours in the name of a cause and raising money, like we see more cases of it now. But 30 years ago nobody was doing that.

RICK HANSEN: That's true. And of course then what happened is people then moved into other examples of extreme, you know, activities. You know, they're climbing Kilimanjaro, Mt. Everest. You know, going the poles and all kinds of amazing athletic accomplishments but with purpose. And then they're also normalizing and creating like annualized Terry Fox runs or Run for the Cures or you know for MS or diabetes. And it's fantastic to see and I think it's creating a sense that we can all get in motion in our own way big or small and add collective impact to help make a difference and build a civil society.

AMT: Well at one point in your book I think, you even make the point that, you know, I mean that was a huge endeavour, it was a leap of faith, and you couldn't help wondering if you were foolish to even be doing this.

RICK HANSEN: True. Yeah. You know, I had the aching the aching shoulder from an old dislocation, an accident I had training, you know, I had doubts about our logistical capacity. The weather was changing and I was not going to receive tailwinds on the first few weeks, it was going to be strong headwinds and it was cold, raining was starting to happen. It started to rain. And yeah I was thinking, yeah, what have you got yourself into here? And the first day you know, literally after wheeling 113 kilometres coming in at nine o'clock at night into a cold motel room and just being chilled to the bone. It was pretty devastating.

AMT: So take us through some of these days. How many kilometres in a day? How would that day get structured?

RICK HANSEN: Yeah. They would get structured in in three different sections. You know, we were wheeling about 27 miles you know, each wheeling segment or close to 40 something kilometres. Like a full marathon, then a break for two hours then another marathon a break for two hours and then another marathon. So that's how we structured a day. And then we wheeled three days of wheeling with various events along the way. And then one day of rest. But that would be full you know, activities in communities and schools and planning and preparation both, you know, backwards to the home office through, you know, messenger pigeons and you know. Like no, but literally it was phone calls, landlines.

AMT: That's right. No email, no smart phone.

RICK HANSEN: State of the art, telexes were state of the art messages. And now we have smartphones and GPS.

AMT: That's right, it was the start so it's 32 years ago.

RICK HANSEN: [laughs]

AMT: How did you keep your arm and your shoulder muscles, like your whole body, how did your body like keep doing that every day?

RICK HANSEN: Well of course the athletic involvement was and demands were significant. And you know, I was going to self-destruct if we didn't bring a physiotherapist on full time. And as a matter of fact we planned to have sporadic physio during the tour and after the third day I was in serious trouble with the winds and the weather. And I had injuries and I picked up the phone and I called Amanda, who was my physio back in Vancouver, and we had been dating before I left and it wasn't in the plans that she'd be on the road with me. And I asked her I said, you know, can you come out cause I'm in trouble. And she talked to her bosses and got some relief and spent two weeks on the road helping me actually summit the Siskiyou Mountains between Oregon and California. It was such a pivot moment to get to the top of that mountain, you know, and without her there I probably wouldn't have made it. And then I asked her to come back and stay on the road with us full time, and fortunately she went back and made arrangements and did. And not only was it a pivot point for the tour and for my ability to complete the journey but obviously for our relationship. And we ended up getting engaged and getting married and having kids and now grandkids. And so wow. What an amazing unexpected benefit of something that I was doing to help others.

AMT: Mm. More than one proposal on the road.

RICK HANSEN: [laughs]

AMT: One was get me through this. And the other one was about marriage. That's lovely. So how many countries did you go through?

RICK HANSEN: 34 countries, four continents. It was two years two months and two days on the road, and about 17 million strokes of the wheelchair.

AMT: That's a lot. And do you have like, I want to ask about the most memorable moment. But there can't just be one. When you think about those days what comes to the fore?

RICK HANSEN: Well you know, one of the greatest highlights was wheeling through China. And, you know, we had applied to go into the Soviet Union and we were turned down to wheel but we came in to do a ceremonial event in Moscow. And East Germany said no and, you know, they thought we were a security risk. And so we fully expected to be turned down in China and to our shock, surprise, and great joy they said yes. And I didn't really realize why until I arrived and it turned out that a former Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau was friends with the Chairman of China Deng Xiaoping, and his son Deng Pufang had a spinal cord injury and he was not doing very well. And they brought him to Canada to have lifesaving medical treatments in Ottawa. And he received Canadian blood and he experienced our medical and our rehabilitation program and listened to emerging rights for people with disabilities and he vowed to come back to China to be a champion for change. And not long after that this kid from Canada, you know, asked if he could come to China as part of his world tour and of course he was so excited. And, you know, and it was a perfect time for China to introduce this to the people of the country because he was trying to start this evolution and big transformation. And we were blown away by the hospitality, the warmth, the enthusiasm, and then of course the amazing moment to be able to go and get to one of the highest points on the Great Wall of China as a symbol of breaking down barriers and no wall’s too big that can’t be climbed in life.

AMT: Were the days when you just like, you'd wake up in the morning and think I can't do this today.

RICK HANSEN: You know, the biggest darkest period for me was coming back to the United States on the last leg of our tour after our triumphant tour through China and Asia. And I was expecting the culminating journey through North America to just be bigger than life. And it was as if nothing had happened in over a year since I left, you know, in the first phase. And we just hadn't been able to get the message out and I was devastated. And I was going to quit by the time we got close to Washington. I said to Amanda I'm done, this is, I can't see myself continuing and going to all that effort just to say I wheeled around the world if nobody in Canada is going to even get involved as well. And she said you know, Rick you can't see around the corner, you know, but you got to have hope because Canadians are going to get involved and you can’t abandon your dream now. Just hang in there a little longer. And so she kind of talked me into not quitting. And I don't know something really amazing happened in the States. So I got an interview just, I don't know how we did it, but we got an interview with Bryant Gumbel on The Today Show and it was an August long weekend Monday morning in Canada. And it turned out that, you know, the founder of McDonald's candidate George Cohon was at home listening and watching that interview and he was listening very intently. And he was so inspired by the story and he hadn't heard it before. And he picks up the phone and he was who is this guy? And he says well we've got to get behind him. And so he mobilized his whole organization and many other business leaders and I'm sure other people like George were also listening and watching. And that was like a pivot point. And, you know, if I had of quit when I wanted to, I would have never seen that moment happen and I would have always been wondering. And I'm just, I'm so grateful that Amanda talked me into believing and having faith and hanging in there and so grateful for people like George Cohon and others who saw the message in that moment and got involved and welcomed me home back to Newfoundland and started this crescendo back across the country.

AMT: It’s a wonderful story. And there’s also something else that helped with the inspirational stuff. And then I'm going to do a little musical interlude here, you know this one's coming. This is some of John Parr with St. Elmo's Fire, also called Man in Motion.

[Music: John Parr]

AMT: OK. Rick Hansen.

RICK HANSEN: Well, John Parr, David Foster, I'm so grateful for both of them. Who would have known, you know, when we were thinking about this wild idea of getting a theme song to kind of represent the spirit of our tour, that a guy named Terry David Mulligan would introduce me to David Foster at a time when they're trying to come up with the soundtrack, you know, anthem to the movie St. Elmo's Fire and they’re stuck. And they put this little promotional video on and within 20 minutes all the lyrics poured out of their heads and that became the number one hit all around the world. St. Elmo's Fire, Man in Motion.

AMT: Yeah. I mean it's so specific to you. You know, going to be your man in motion, all I need is a pair of wheels. You broke the boy in me, you won't break the man.

RICK HANSEN: Yeah.

AMT: Did you ever get tired of hearing that song or was that like just the best thing for you?

RICK HANSEN: The only time I got tired of it was when our hosts in Portugal, they were so excited, you know, this had been a number one hit song and they had this motor home van in front of us leading the way and they had a loudspeaker that was blaring the song constantly for like 10 hours a day. And by the end of the week I was like come on, like can we change the tune?

AMT: And so now 30 years since the end of that tour. How have things changed for Canadians living with a disability?

RICK HANSEN: There's been a lot that's changed. You know, the first thing that's changed is I think our expectations in Canada have shifted dramatically, our attitudes about disability. From just a charitable concern, you know, something again to be you know worried about or you know to be pitied or to be, you know, nurtured if someone has a disability which is always important. But this move to a human rights, you know, imperative. And that's really huge, you know, opinion polls back this up that majority, a large majority of Canadians are really clear that the Canada we want is an accessible and inclusive Canada where there's no barriers to participation and inclusion for people with disabilities. And that's powerful and it's embedded in our Constitution. But, you know, the words were easy in 1982 when we brought it home. It wasn't real, you know during the beginning of my tour. But you know, 30 years later it is real and it's part of our culture and I'm really inspired by that. You know, we see people with disabilities demonstrating that it's really more about ability. We see them as leaders in business, leaders in education, leaders in the political world. The current Minister of Disability federally Minister Kent Hehr, he's a quadriplegic. But you know, I don't see his disability, guy’s talented, competent. He's passionate about making a difference. He got elected by his constituency. And these are big threshold shifts and, you know, that's paving the way to create more of a spotlight on the reality that, you know, that people with disabilities have potential and they're not just people to be accommodated through human rights. They can contribute. And that's that's really awesome to see.

AMT: And the Rick Hansen foundation works, you work with cities and developers and institutions do you not? To try to make these issues very concrete in public spaces and...

RICK HANSEN: Absolutely. And of course as we see the progression now, the other big thing that's changed is aging baby boomers are having many disabling conditions and over the next 20 years. Right now there is over a billion people in the planet living with a disability according to the World Health Organization and that's one in seven people. That'll be like one in five by 2035. In Canada it will be like 9 million Canadians, it'll affect everybody. So it's also now becoming an economic and cultural imperative that we actually need inclusion. So people with disabilities can contribute and so...

AMT: Are we doing enough on that front then? It's like are we thinking about this enough in our governments?

RICK HANSEN: No, Canadians aren't. And we need a wakeup call. And why is it that disability doesn't become and accessibility and inclusion top of mind? Because it's fragmented by body part and clinical diagnosis and it doesn't really, we don't really think about it terms of how big it is. Secondly, our attitudes continue to have to be shifted because employers still don't see people with disabilities with amazing abilities to contribute to a vibrant workforce and that's easy to accommodate not difficult. And we need to actually see our built environment. You know, the places that we live work play and learn. They have become completely inclusive. And we've got to move from a potpourri of random responses to accessibility to a professionalized accredited lens in the entire development chain from architects to engineers to city planners to advocates. All using the same viewpoint and standards for looking at a building and seeing if it's minimally accessible meeting code or if it's going to gold levels of accessibility.

AMT: You are still in motion. You want these changes and these adaptations to keep on going.

RICK HANSEN: Who'd a thought. You know, it was, it's not just the Man in Motion tour, it's a lifelong journey to create a global movement. And it's not one man in motion, it's many in motion. And my dream is to inspire people to get involved, to join me and many others to remove these barriers and get there faster.

AMT: That 15-year-old boy had no idea. Did he?

RICK HANSEN: No clue. You know, I would have sold my soul back then for the use of my legs and thought my life was over. Really. And looking back I'd never trade my life for the use of my legs. I'm one of the luckiest guys on the planet.

AMT: You are an inspiration Rick Hansen. Thank you.

RICK HANSEN: Thank you Anna Maria. It’s an honour to talk to you.

MF: Rick Hansen founder and CEO of the wreck Hanson Foundation and he spoke with Anna Maria in September. You can read about his epic marathon in his book Rick Hansen's Man in Motion World Tour, Thirty Years Later, A Celebration of Courage Strength and the Power of Community. And we'll put some pictures of the Man in Motion tour on our Web site which is cbc.ca/thecurrent. That's our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio One for Q. singer Songwriter Jim Cuddy will be on the show. And remember you can always take The Current with you to go on the CBC Radio app to the lake, to the beach, on a walk. It is free from the App Store or Google Play. And we're going to wrap the show up today with more of that classic song Man In Motion. Hi Mike Finney. Thanks for listening to the summer edition of The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

[Song: Man in Motion]

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