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The Current Transcript for June 7, 2018

Host: Mike Finnerty

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

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How overcoming adversity brought together a Syrian teen and Mi'kmaq grandmother

Guests: Basel Al Rashdan, Charlotte Morris

SOUNDCLIP

Gwei, Hi. My name is Basel Al Rashdan and I am pleased to welcome you to Epikwitk, the tradition and unceded territory of the Mi'kmak people. So, come with me, please, as I take my research journey[unintelligible] came to be.

MIKE FINNERTY: That's part of 13 year old Basel Al Rashdan school video project from earlier this year, looking at the history of indigenous trees and residential schools in Canada. But Basel isn't your typical 13 year old student. He's a Syrian refugee. He's been living with this family in Charlottetown Prince Edward Island since the end of 2015. Since making Canada his home, Basel has taken indigenous issues to heart in part because of what he's learned from one person; Charlotte Morris. She's a Prince Edward Islander and a survivor of Canada's residential school system. At 62 she has a few years on Basel but since meeting a year and a half ago at Human Rights Day in Charlottetown the two have struck up a lasting friendship. And now Basel is on a mission. When he goes to take his oath of citizenship later this year he'd like to use the opportunity to highlight indigenous treaty rights. Both Basel are Raasch Dan and Charlotte more US are in our Charlottetown studio. Hello you both.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Hello.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Hello, Mike.

MF: Basel you and Charlotte you don't live at all in the same town. How do you feel about seeing Charlotte again today?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: I am really excited, I am just so happy seeing her today.

MF: And I heard you. I overheard you as you were getting ready to speak to us. Charlotte harking back to when you first met.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Yes I remember the event at the Confederation Centre where he participated in the heritage fair on survivors of the residential schools.

MF: Why do you think you've been able to find the connection with him?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Well from me, knowing his story about where he was from and how he came to PI. I guess that's like we were both taken from our hometown, in different ways for both of us. So I think this the connection. We can relate to what happened back then.

MF: Basel can you tell us the story about how you first met?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: So I was invited to speak in the human rights thing in 2016 in December and there was a lot of first nation people, Mi'kmak people that was presenting things about their culture, singing songs and stuff. And I met Charlotte and I get to know her. And after about a couple of weeks, I know what her story was and it was my projects for 2017 from my heritage fair.

MF: It sounds like you had already taken an interest in indigenous history though is that right?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: It's very interesting and very important to know. All people should know about what happened to the indigenous peoples.

MF: What got you to be, to that point I guess, to realise that that was such an important part of the history of Canada that you wanted to know so much more about it?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Well you know I came to Canada when I first arrived to the Charlottetown airport I was welcomed with warmth, respect. I was very happy I was supported. I didn't- I wasn't treated as Charlotte was. It was a big difference and that just can't happen and no one talk about it. Everyone should know about this.

MF: Charlotte what's it like to hear him say that?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: You know he's right. It should be recognised and it should be talked about.

MF: What do you remember about that first media? I mean, Basel How old were you at the time when you guys met first?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: I think I was turning 11.

MF: So Charlotte this 11 year old comes - what? Striding up to you? What happened?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Well, I had no idea what to expect and I had an idea of- because Tom was organizing the event of the human rights commission. He got us together. And big thanks to Tom, Tom Hilton. When I first met Basel he was just young but he has a lot of knowledge and he is very intelligent for his age. I was thinking that when I was talking to him.

MF: You think maybe there is an old spirit inside there.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Oh yes definitely.

MF: Basel, tell us a little bit about your own story. I know you spoke briefly about that day you arrived at Charlottetown airport but what was that ended love of a long journey. What can you tell us about how that journey got underway and what do you remember about it?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Okay so when I was six years old I was living in an area that's called Darayya, in Syria that's close to Damascus. And when I was six the war starte. And Darayya wasn't safe anymore. All the people left and a lot of people was arrested, a lot of people was killed. So my family did an thing of staying there for longer. We decided to move to my grandparents’ house. We went there and lived there for about two weeks and then their town wasn't safe either. So then there was a camp, at the time it was for families that left their homes for safety. So we went there and after about a month it got really crowded and you know it wasn't comfortable. So after three months we went to Jordan to an area called Zaatari that was a camp for refugees. After that we went to Ar Ramtha. We live there with my grandma and her two sons. My dad found a home, an apartment for us, and after two years and eight months UNHCR called us and told us that we might have an opportunity to move to Canada. After all then is what we've done, the UNHCR called us back and they said that we accepted that our flight was on December 26th on Sunday. I was like 'Whoa! Awesome!' So we went on the airplane. We went to Toronto. When we got to Charlottetown I was welcomed with warmth, respect. I just feel so happy about that. You know just being welcomed and supported, that's what I like actually.

MF: And here you are.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Yes.

MF: Almost three years later.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Yes.

MF: I am curious to ask you another question, if you don't mind. Do you mind if I ask you another question about Syria and your life in Syria?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: No problem.

MF: How did your parents explain to you what was going on?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: All what I knew is there was a conflict and I didn't know what was going on. But it was war and it was not safe. You know I was not at the age to understand what was going on.

MF: And they told you about the conflict and did you remember seeing signs?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Yes I've seen. I've seen, like I used to live in an apartment in Darayya and our neighbor left her home and she told us to go there. We were living on the fourth floor which wasn't you know the most safe thing and she was living in the second floor. So we went to her house and I was watching from her window and I can see like everything. It was so scary. Like every bomb, every shot was like about 20 meters from there. So it was really terrifying.

MF: Charlotte what is that like for you to hear Basel talk about that experience, the war in Syria, and his journey to Canada.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Well, I can relate to some of the experience feelings that he had during the process phoned Syria to Charlottetown. You have them leave your home, hometown; you know someplace where you always felt you belong. For me that was the same like when I was actually taken from my hometown which was not a good experience for me, as a young child.

MF: How old were you?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: I was six, seven.

MF: You really were Basel's age.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Pretty well, yes. Just realized that now.

MF: And how did you know you were going to be taken? Do you remember what happened?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: I can vaguely remember that they had put us, three of us, in the taxi. And the taxi took us to a bus in [unintelligible]. In the whole time we were just you know crying. Couldn't figure out what was going on and no one had told us anything of where we were going. We ended up at the big school, Shubenacadie, in Nova Scotia.

MF: Do you remember your feelings?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Oh, Goodness. We were just like- You know we cried and we held each other. We were scared because where are they taking us.

MF: You were with your brother and sister.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Yes.

MF: The video that Basel put together, you talk in one clip from it about waking up at the big school, I think you call it, the residential school.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Yes.

MF: And I think you say that you would get up on a given day and hope you would end up getting strapped.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Yes that's true.

MF: I mean Basel, you know what that means to get strapped?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Like to get hit with something. If she talked to her brother or spoke in her language, you know just doing anything from her background.

MF: What do you think of that when you first heard about it Basel?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: I was terrified. You know like I can't imagine myself taken from my family and you know taking to a place where I just get destroyed, broken from my family, from the language that I speak, the culture, the religion. It's just hard. It's hard.

MF: How long have you guys spent talking about it?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: A couple weeks, two or three weeks.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Off and on, yes.

MF: Did you feel comfortable, Charlotte, kind of confiding in him and telling him the details of it?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Oh I was quite comfortable.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: I wasn't comfortable hearing.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: And he wasn't no. I knew when to stop.

MF: When was the right time to stop?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: When I noticed he was getting sad and we didn't want to see him get sadder. Pretty well I guess.

MF: Basel, what conclusions have you drawn about why the Canadian governments set up those residential schools and take those kids away?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: So, at the past, there was racism and Europeans wanted to take over the new world, you can call it. And if the indigenous people were still there, then they would be worried about their land ownership or whatever. So they started taking indigenous children to schools that's called residential schools and the children were not taken to be educated. They were taken you know to make them Europeans. But like what's the point of making the kids Europeans? Would that make a healthy relationship with indigenous peoples? What was the point of separating families from each other?

MF: Charlotte how well do you think he's understood residential schools and what was done?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: I think he understands it very well and he's speaking from his heart. So I can tell. Basel has the understanding. He is very compassionate. He's a good candidate to be a Canadian citizen in my eyes, for sure. I feel very happy for him and I'm hoping that I'll be there when that happens. I would like to be there.

MF: Basel, this is a dark chapter in Canada's history.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: It sure is.

MF: And you didn't know about it before you came right?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: No.

MF: So how does that change your view of Canada as a country?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Well you know it is a bad thing but it's not the same time because every country has a dark history. But when we talk about this and when we think about it we can understand what happened and what is good and bad about it. You know, if we did not talk about this the same thing might happen in the future. It's an important thing, you know, learn from your mistakes because if you didn't you'll make the same mistakes.

MF: In that video that you put together. I remember you saying after learning about residential schools that you yourself felt guilty.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: U ha. Because my family was treated fairly, with respect. But the same wasn't for Charlotte. So if I didn't talk about it I would have felt guilt for sure. If everyone knew about this and I was part of it, I would feel so happy, really really happy.

MF: Do you still feel guilty? I mean why should you feel guilty? I mean you weren't descended from the people who did this.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: But you know we're still all humans. No matter where we are from or what we are. Come on we all have feelings. We should be empathy. We should now each other's feelings. We should talk about everything that we worry about.

MF: Tell us about your citizenship ceremony.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: So when I become a Canadian citizen I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada including treaties with indigenous people.

MF: That's what you want to say. Why?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: It's respectful for sure.

MF: Charlotte what Basel's been saying about processing all the things that happen to you and so many other indigenous people of this land, and how we move on, what are your thoughts on that as we head into another Canada Day?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: I feel this dark chapter is now closed, but that's for me. And the reason why I say is I was invited to Ottawa and sat in the chambers in the House of Commons, along with [unintelligible] who recently passed away. And we were both there when Stephen Harper the then prime minister made the apology for the residential school system. It's a very healing experience for us all. I do believe the healing continues today.

MF: And do you think a boy, Basel, 11 years old, who travels halfway around the world and learns about your history and our history, is a part of that healing and reconciling?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Definitely I do believe that.

MF: I mean I don't know about you, but when I listened to Basel talk about it I find it very powerful and even very emotional.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Yes it is very emotional reminder. Mind you, I did have good memories at the residential schools. Fortunately for me I was lucky that way.

MF: And you survived.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: I survived yes.

MF: And here you are here. What are your plans for Canada Day?

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: It's a holiday with mixed emotions. On one hand, celebrating being a proud Canadian. And on the other hand, I see a celebration of the past that was not kind to us. I will celebrate Canada day, as I have done for many years, with children and now grandchildren and watch fireworks to finish the day. I am a proud Canadian, as well as a proud first nation Mi'kmak woman. And I just want to say today that I am a stage four cancer patient Survivor.

MF: Basel. She seems like a strong lady, Charlotte.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Yes. First of all she's my inspiration to be the best [unintelligible] person I can be. She is a proud Mi'kmak woman who never gave up trees. She is a survivor. And all people should know about her story and other residential school survivors' stories.

MF: Are you guys going to stay in touch?

BASEL AL RASHDAN: For sure.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Yes yes.

BASEL AL RASHDAN: Like I said she is my inspiration.

MF: Thank you both very much for coming in, talking to us.

CHARLOTTE MORRIS: Thank you.

MF: Basel Al Rashdan, who is a rarity from Syria and now lives with his family in Charlottetown, is due to become a Canadian citizen at the end of the year. Charlotte Morris is a residential school survivor who lives in Birch Hill Prince Edward Island and they both joined us from Charlottetown.

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Tactical edge or just cheating? Diving in soccer remains divisive

Guests: Sonja Missio, Paolo Canciani, Paul Zehr

MF: Hello I'm Mike Finnerty. And you're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

[Music: Theme]

Still to come: What are the real issues keeping teenagers awake at night. And if you're a teen yourself where can you find honest and open conversations about those issues, well, the CBC original podcast Mic Drop is a new place for teens to speak unfiltered. Throughout the summer we will be featuring some of the Mic Drop podcast as part of our Friday shows. We'll introduce you to Mic Drop in half an hour. First, Game of Groans.

SOUNDCLIP

[Music]

COMMENTATOR: Just in the middle of your picture, there. What's happened there?

[Sounds: Cheers and whistles]

COMMENTATOR 1: This come down for no reason, what so ever.

COMMENTATOR 2: Goal keeper is out. Oh [unintelligible] went down almost [unintelligible]

COMMENTATOR 3: Just look at him, writhing around as if he'd never walk again. [Unintelligible] for his life and get it. Off he goes. I am sorry mate. You've been caught.

[Music]

MF: Soccer may be a game for the breathtaking shots and footwork but it can also take fans breath away with moments like those: players grabbing their ankles, checking their faces for blood writhing around in agony only to pop up a moment later and get on with the game. The dive, faking a far or pretending to be hurt, is surprisingly common at the game's elite levels. There are some efforts to police dives better at this summer's World Cup in Russia. New technology, the video assistant referee, is there to help human referees separate fake flops from genuine fouls. But some would argue the theatricality of the well-executed dive has become a part of the game itself. We're taking a deep dive into the art of the fall with two guests. Sonja Missio who is a soccer journalist and co-founder of Unusual Efforts which is a publication supporting women in soccer journalism. And Paolo Canciani who is a former soccer referee and a producer at the Toronto multicultural radio station CHIN's Soccer City and they're with us in our Toronto studio. Hello to you both.

SONJA MISSIO: Good morning.

PAOLO CANCIANI: Good morning. Thanks.

MF: Sonja. How do you feel about diving?

SONJA MISSIO: You know it's something that comes up quite a bit because you have commentary after the game, you're watching with friends and you're calling things out. It's kind of tricky because it's really easy to see both sides. I mean on one hand, you don't want the dives. You don't the theatricals. You want to get on, be the elite athlete that we were speaking about earlier and just play the game. You know you're supposed be a role model. You're not supposed to do these tricks and all these other things in order to get the call your way. But on the other side, it's 90 minutes of pure running. It's 90 minutes of being on all the time and if you can take a dive they'll give you a five second breather, or you know slow the game down, kind of pick up your own pace. Then I can see why athletes do it. I don't necessarily agree. It's understandable and I think that sometimes it does go a little bit too far. We've seen Neymar memes a million times, rolling everywhere.

MF: [Laughs] What's a particular North American view on diving?

SONJA MISSIO: I think because soccer is not quite looked upon in North America as it is in the rest of the world, a lot of North American games it's this idea of you get hurt but you still go out and play. Like you play with a broken leg. You play with a concussion. Were very used to that. Well with soccer players a they don't have the same amount of padding. They're running with a lot more momentum and they're on a lot more. There's no time out or no breaks. There's half time but that's about it. That you do get tired out there and so that when you're used to working really really fast games like hockey or basketball that do you have a lot of breaks you don't understand necessarily why a player want that couple of minutes or a couple of seconds of extra breathing time. So I think that's really freshening for an American audience because we're not accustomed to that. We don't see it in the same sort of way.

MF: Paolo in your view how legitimate is diving in soccer?

PAOLO CANCIANI: It is a good question. I don’t think is legitimate at all in terms of rules, for regulation, of this sports but is part of the culture of soccer. More maybe in some country - I am coming from Italy - from like Italy or South America, where we have to be smarter than the other one to be successful, to be first, to achieve something. So it’s part of our way of living, especially in South America. You know it is 50 years that i am following soccer, and this part of our sport, the diving, to be a little bit smarter than your opponent.

MF: Tactically what’s the point of it?

PAOLO CANCIANI: To gain, to cheat on the referee, to convince the referee that something that is minor has to be called and can be detrimental for your opponent, to take advantage, simple like take advantage.

MF: You used to be a referee?

PAOLO CANCIANI: Amateur level. It is very difficult for a referee.

MF: So why did they even allow it?

PAOLO CANCIANI: It is very difficult. First of all the size of the field. We are talking about 100 and more metres in length. It is only one person with the assistance of two linesmen that technically they don’t have the power to make a decision. They can call your attention. At the end is all up to you. You have to decide in few seconds. You cannot stay there thinking or review even in your mind what's happened and you have to make a decision. Now with the VAR, this new technology, I am sure everybody would be helped in find the right decision or to reverse the decision, instinctively they make, but it is going to take time. And it will take time in different country at different levels in using this technology.

MF: Sonja do have Latin roots as well?

SONJA MISSIO: Actually we are from the same place in Polynesia.

MF: Would you agree with Paolo that there is something culturally that the football or soccer in Latin countries appreciates or sees diving as part of the culture?

SONJA MISSIO: I think so too. I mean there have been so many times that I've watched the game and somebody getting tackled in the box and my first reaction is to yell 'Why didn't you go down?' And it is that tactical advantage that, you know, even if the ref misses it this time or doesn't get the call that you want, he might be a little bit more lenient the second time or that you might gain a little bit more sympathy or he might start watching the defenders a little bit more. And I mean you can do whatever you can. It is that tactical edge.

MF: But why more in Latin countries then in northern European countries for instance?

SONJA MISSIO: I mean this is sort of an outsider opinion of it. There is this idea also that climate has a lot to do with it. So take this as you will, I'm just giving this as an explanation.

MF: [Laughs]I am listening.

SONJA MISSIO: But in places like South America or Italy where it's a lot harder. You're running around more. You want to try to conserve energy so you can go down and have that sip of water then that might be something that you want to do in order to stay off the heat. Whereas in England this is not so true anymore about where it's a lot cooler compared to Italy, that you know they play along but so that they're running a lot more. And again I'm not saying that that's necessarily true but it's the idea that different countries play in different ways based on temperatures. You know and speaking of [unintelligible] and its short passes, in order again to conserve that energy.

MF: Does it make sense to you, Paolo?

PAOLO CANCIANI: Makes sense and I would like to add something. Think hypothetically that I am a defender. And I have to play against a star like Ronaldo for example. That I know that he is better than me, he's faster than me, he's powerful than me. How I can try to stop him? I will use all possible way, legal or illegal or at the limit of legality until I see the referee that is not get really upset. That too is a kind of way shifting to the game. And of course there the Ronaldo to attract the attention of the referee, to protect himself, he will tend to diving more or with more affect esthetically.

MF: Okay. But How do you then explain Cristiano Ronaldo who is a famous versus Leo Messi who doesn't dive or not as much?

PAOLO CANCIANI: This is another great question. Different way of play. Different style.

MF: Is it character?

PAOLO CANCIANI: I think being, Ronaldo, more powerful, physically more strong, is more a subject to be tackled, to be attacked by defender in a semi legal way. Week I don't know if I was be able to express myself in a proper way.

SONJA MISSIO: Yeah I mean some players - I want to say make targets of themselves because I don’t want unnecessary lay the blame but even looking into Toronto and you have somebody like Sebastian Giovinco. They know that he's a powerful player. They know that he's quick. They know that he can do things that a lot of MLS players cannot. So that you're going to have defenders target him a lot more and go after him. First time out there is also the idea of frustration too, that if you're not getting calls and there are actual fouls being committed you're going to start to unbalance in order to grab that ref's attention. So you may have had an actual fight that was nest but may get the one that you sort of you know throw your arms up or thrown yourself down a little bit more to kind of make up for that last. And so I do think that players get targeted more and then both on the screen and the referee are watching them a little bit more. So in order to get those calls and to get things go their way that it's inflated.

MF: You both like Ronaldo fans to me. [Laughter] I want you to have a listen to your former U.S. national men's team player who is Alexi Lalas who is now soccer commentator with Fox Sports and here he is talking to the Associated Press's Sports One Podcast.

SOUNDCLIP

Now when you say 'diving' you are using it as a pejorative or a diver. I don't see it like that. I look at it as a skill. There are good dives and bad dives. And the act of embellishing an action, I don't see any insult to the game and/or person. I know it frustrates a lot of people I know it brings up a lot of yellings and I know a lot of people associate with the word cheater to that. It's not as simple as that. I know a lot of people want this to be black and white. It really is not. Soccer is played in The gray area. The laws of the game are intentionally flexible. It can be, not confusing, but I think it can be frustrating at times if you don't almost embrace that flexibility to recognize those gray areas are really where the beauty of the game lives.

MF: Paolo, does the beauty of soccer lie in the gray areas?

PAOLO CANCIANI: It's great and you know Alexi Lalas, he's new referee for [unintelligible] after playing in the-

MF: Which is pretty interesting given his view on diving. He's not ready to say just a straight note to it.

PAOLO CANCIANI: He was there. He was a defender so the defender don't tend to dive. But it touches the reality of soccer at the high level. So he knows what's happening on the field.

MF: Do you enjoy a good dive?

PAOLO CANCIANI: The term enjoy, no. The only thing at the end, aside cheating on the referee or take an advantage, is just too hard to but the fan in the stadium or in front of the TV to build adrenaline in one way or the other. If I'm in favor or if I am against, if I am home I am a fan of one team or the other. That is the only real results of the diving. But of course I still think like I said before this is part of not maybe not that the term culture, the way to be, the way to play soccer in certain countries in certain moments.

MF: The women's game is different, Sonja. Tell us a little bit if you could about how diving, the role, the importance of diving in the women's game.

SONJA MISSIO: It's an interesting question because a lot of the times in the women's game in a lot of sports too - not just soccer - it's kind of put on the sort of pinnacle of like look at this great sports person ship I guess. It's focus on fundamentals then fair play and being able to be the best that you can be type of thing. But I mean it is still part of the game like there is still diving in women's soccer may not be as prevalent. First of all because it's not necessarily televised as much and it's not as shown over and over again as much. So you don't see it in the same sort of regard. There is still cheating and cheating I should say in air quotes or tactics to get in that psychological idea of the ref. I mean the big example is the American Canadian game where the Americans were counting down how long the goalkeeper held the ball. It's something that you never do and the goalkeeper got booked because she was holding the ball too long and it's just something that you would never see in a soccer game. Referees do you get players inside their heads so yes there is not necessarily as much diving necessarily in women's soccer but those sort of psychological elements are definitely still there.

MF: Okay. But there is less. And why is there less?

SONJA MISSIO: I don't know, better soccer players maybe? It could also be that defender too.

PAOLO CANCIANI: Women are more educated than men?

SONJA MISSIO: I'll agree to that. I mean the defending is different. The game is played a little bit definitely as well so I mean we both watch the Italian league and it's not necessarily comparable in the same, I don’t want to say the same skill set, but in the same way that you grew up learning how to play the game and the position that you're in. So it is very hard to compare the two because the games are played differently.

MF: I can ask you both to listen to another clip. This very recognizable voice of course of Don Cherry host for Coaches Corner.

SOUNDCLIP

The players know when to dive and I have [unintelligible] since he was a littel kid and I really like him. He is a smart player. Look at that. It is the seventh game. Look at the dive. I am not going to go bananas here, but look who scores the goal. He should have been in for diving. I mean you cannot, in a seventh game, of a Stanley Cup, have a dive like that. And the players know, the players and all the guys are going to bite.

MF: Paolo, hockey players. They do embellish and there is a penalty for embellishment. And yet hockey fans are especially hostile to diving. You think there is a double standard at work?

PAOLO CANCIANI: Oh my God I don't know. I love hockey. I am a soccer nuts. I love basketball. Three different kind of sports. Three different approach also from a fan. So for example I tend not to enjoy when there is a fight in the arena but probably that is coming through my culture. But I accept that because now, watching the game constantly, year after years, I accepted that is part of the way to be a hockey player, to be part of the movement.

MF: Is there hypocrisy with hockey fans? Do you think so? Sonja? I mean guess maybe they see themselves, or the hockey players, as more macho or maybe more manly.

SONJA MISSIO: Definitely I am glad that you pointed on that. I think there is the same desire in North America that sports are very manly and you have to like suck it up and play the game and man up and stuff. Hockey players are applauded for going out and playing on a broken leg or with like you know blood gushing in your base.

MF: But they dive too.

SONJA MISSIO: But in soccer if you have blood you cannot be on the pitch. It's a safety thing. So I think there is this idea that in soccer because maybe the career lifespan is a lot shorter, you're exposed a lot more, you can easily [unintelligible] if you're injury you go off. And I think a lot of times you have players saying 'I can't' or you have fans saying 'I can't believe he's playing he's injured he should be resting for the next game', and you don't necessarily get that notion in North American sports. The idea that you have to man up and play even though your injuries or whatever. Whereas in soccer people tend to rest players. They take them off. They make sure that they're at full health.

MF: Want to bring in Paul Zehr to the conversation he's a professor of neuroscience at the University of Victoria, author of Chasing Captain America: How Advances in Science Engineering and Biotechnology will produce a Superhuman. He is in Victoria. Paul. Hello.

PAUL ZEHR: Hi, Good morning.

MF: You have applied some of your research and neuroscience to the study of rithing in soccer. What did you learn?

PAUL ZEHR: Well for about 25 years we've been studying how humans coordinate their arms and legs and we walk around in particular sensory information from our feet and helps us do that helps protect us to keep us from falling. And when you take a body of work and you look at the reactions you see in soccer diving and in hockey as well, you see all the kind of reactions are actually not consistent with any of our biology. And in fact it's striking how different the reactions you actually find people do when they are simulating and faking, compared to what real reactions are. So that's kind of a frustration as a neuroscientist to see some of this stuff.

MF: So what it tells?

PAUL ZEHR: There are a couple of really details. The first one I talk about is keeping your eyes on the chance, that when players are typically throwing their arms strictly over their heads, in an effort to gain attention, whereas in a real trip your hand to protect you and it and for anybody to keep from slamming into the ground. And the other tell is the feet. You see players who are really trying to simulate contact and make it seem very theatrical, actually stopping moving their feet first of all and then pulling them away from the ground, doing things are actually totally counter-productive to keeping you protected and in fact working totally against your automated biology which is intending to do the complete opposite things.

MF: You've actually named what you feel are three of the most common types of dives. Can you run us through them? I think the first one's called the platoon.

PAUL ZEHR: Yes. The Platoon is the real theatrical one where the player looks like the William character in Platoon and we it in the back trying to get to the helicopter and hear the end of the movie where their arms go over your head and you fall forward. And you see that happening, and there's been a couple examples already in this World Cup. There was another one was I called the finish line, where the players throwing his arms or her arms behind her almost like a runner trying to break the tape at the end of a race where they're throwing their body forward and arms behind again in unprotect position. And then the really dramatic ones which we've also had a couple examples so far; the belly flop where the arms go straight in front of you and they crash into the ground. When I wrote my article at psychology today about this, I didn't anticipate including one called the timber, which would have been what I would call Neymar's manoeuvre against Costa Rica, when he managed to fall over backwards like being felled in the forest. But these are the kind of things where the person is not doing anything that's got anything to do with being a human or animal trying to protect yourself from being tripped. You just trying to draw attention to what you think may have happened.

MF: You wrote an open letter to World Cup referees. What did it say?

PAUL ZEHR: Yes the title went Dear World Cup referees Please don't fall for a faking. I tried to outline these things in you know one of the things that might fathom with is we were just talking about VAR video assisted refereeing where people are able to see these things because as you just pointed out, it's really hard for a referee to notice these things in real time. But I'm realising now that the criteria are wrong. The things that the referees are using and video review and so on. they're still being fooled by the same problems. They're seeing some kind of just incidental contact just brushing against someone which would never produce anything at all like the falls you see and then they're just saying, okay, there was contact. So therefore it's okay that they leapt into the air and flipped around and landed on the ground and made this theatrical outcome. I just try to draw attention to this issue and to say a there's a whole body of research that you could draw on if you want to know what it really looks like when people fall.

MF: But you know how much less pleasure would you have watching World Cup soccer if it weren't for some of those moments that you just brought up and made everyone laugh.

PAUL ZEHR: I would have actually a lot more pleasure. I don’t share some of the sympathies with your guest that it's an okay thing. I mean the laws of the game actually state that it's for unsportsmanlike conduct to be feigning and simulating diving an injury. It is in the FIFA laws of the game. I don't think it has a part. I think it fits with I'm not a big fan of cheating. I would rather see those players- How many times have we seen Ronaldo go down when he could have actually kept going and actually scored a fantastic goal, where instead of the player is rolling around on the ground trying to get a foul that may or may not come. It doesn't take away from the get rid of that personally but I hear some of the arguments have been put forward about the drama. It certainly is dramatic.

MF: Sonja, What do you think of what Paul said?

SONJA MISSIO: It is true. I know we both follow the same team, this little team in Italy. And our star player who retired a few years ago, he was a player who would not go down.

MF: And what? Did you admire him?

SONJA MISSIO: No I would get frustrated with him where he wouldn't be fouled in the box and you just want to yell at him saying go down.

MF: Take the penalty.

SONJA MISSIO: Exactly. Yes okay fine. There are times where you step on somebody's ankle and their arms go up. I mean you're still stepping on somebody's ankle with studs. Whether or not we think the embellishment is you know too much that is still a foul in the game make. It is illegal in the game.

PAOLO CANCIANI: Then it is also a question I think deep deep deep down of the personality of the player. You were mentioning this small team in 20 years ago. I am an old man so I remember. We had a star, he was one of the best players like Maradona, that level, but it was a character is so so sweet, so simple, never a reaction, never a word outside the box, never. I think in his mentality diving or cheating, in general, was something that doesn't exist yet. So it's a question of personality matter. Maradona was the opposite. You rememeber the famous goal with the hand. That is the perfect example.

MF: Last one around the table who is going to win the World Cup? Who should win the World Cup, Paolo?

I am a new fan of Croatia. Because I am coming not far from Croatia because I like how they played in the first time, I am impressed by Belgium.

MF: Sonja.

SONJA MISSIO: This is just a complete personal bias: Switzerland's.

MF: And Paul there.

PAUL ZEHR: Well I was formally cheering for Germany and that came to an abrupt end.

[Laughter]

PAOLO CANCIANI: Congratulations.

PAUL ZEHR: I actually agree with Paolo. I'm going for Croatia. I think that they've been on the fringes for a long time and this could be their year.

MF: Okay all three of you. Thank you so much for joining us and enjoy your soccer. Sonja Missio, Paul Zehr in Victoria and Paolo Canciani here in Toronto. Coming up in our next half hour a podcast by teens for teens. I am Mike Finnerty and you were listening to the summer edition of The Current. Stay tuned.

[Music: Theme]

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Mic Drop: Here's why The Current is giving a voice to Canadian youth

MF: Hello I'm Mike Finnerty. You're listening to the summer edition of The Current. And throughout the summer we're going to be doing something a little different on Fridays. We're handing this part of the show over to teenagers. Two of our colleagues in Montreal Shari Okeke and Carrie Haber have created and produced a new CBC podcast called Mic Drop. It's about teens and their real life struggles. And Mike dropt doesn't hold back. It takes on the real issues and gives teens a little privacy so they can really speak their minds, open up about what's in their hearts. For the most part it uses only first names and in some cases pseudonyms. You could find the podcast wherever you get your podcast. And we're bringing you parts of the first two episodes now. So here is the CBC original podcast Mic Drop.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: Hey guys we just wanted to let you know that there's a description of violence in this episode.

[Music]

VOICE 1: This is my Mic Drop.

VOICE 2: It's about us.

VOICE 3: Our stories as in what we've been through.

VOICE 2: What we are still going through.

VOICE 1: Without any adult interruption.

Testing. Testing

VOICE 5: Mic will drop in Five Four Three Two drop the mic.

[Laughter]

VOICE 5: I've never held the mike before and this feels good actually.

ALEYA: Hi. I am Aleya. I'm 13 and I am in Grade 8. I am so so excited and so happy to be in the very first episode of Mic Drop. I just want to let you guys know that this is a teen zone our age group our generation in this one little space. Sometimes you will hear an adult and that is because 18 wanted them to be a part of this and just know that they would understand. So this first episode is about who am I. That's a really really big question. Well think about it for a while, let me pass the mike Evans.

EVANS: Welcome to my tour. The tour of my kingdom. In other words my room. Rigth here is my poster. The poster I read every single morning to inspire me and I think that every sentence is related to a step in my life and it says 'be brave and wild heart. Every moment has the potential to be amazing. Do what you love. Happiness is not a destination. It is a way of life'. Here on my rights. I am Evans. I am 13. I'm actually a football player, class president. I'm part of a chess club. I'm a runner. I'm a basketball player. I'm a nice generous and humble person. I'm an explorer. I'm the hero of the story or my story. Having said something cocky. Sorry. Being the hero of the story is going toward your destiny. So it's like the poster in my room. Be brave and wild at hearts. You have to be brave and not hide behind insecurity and the obstacles. I've been through a lot, I believe. My last memory of my father when he was in this emigrations cell and I went to go say bye. I didn't necessarily know why but he was in fact ordered to be deported to his country Nigeria. I was 4 at the time and now I'm 13. It's been nine years and yes. The fact that my dad is in a different continent. It could deep down make me like probably sad, but I don't really necessarily let it define the person I'm going to become. But it's also harder like financially but we're getting stronger together. We're three in the house and if my father was there would be great. But right now he's not actually there so I'm trying to find opportunities to actually go see him. Considering the fact that it's harder for him to come here but I don't let the intentions and the stats that say a boy without his father is destined to live with sadness and problems. I don't listen to those thoughts and those stereotypes. I don't let people's intentions the find the person I'm going to become. I am proving wrong. What composes me today is a lot of the hard moments like that I lived at school. So I remember in even kindergarten to like third and fourth grade. It was hard because I was energetic I wanted to do a lot of stuff but the teacher would always punish me. They labeled me as this troublemaker but I was actually I just wanted to explore and I wanted to learn more than just like defined mathematics and science and French. I wanted to learn more about life. But they didn't get that and they just saw stuff as numbers and letters. They didn't see stuff beyond that. So it was hard. Other times where it was hard because my father was in there, my mom really tried to bring a positive and good role model, male role model, in our house. But some of them weren't the ones that my mom expected. Some of them were just really taking my mom's effort for granted. One night I was sleeping and I woke up I was hearing and like disruptive sounds. I went in my mom's room to actually see my mom's boyfriend at the time choking her. He looked intoxicated which means drunk and my mom was like crying. So I called my mom and she tried to come in like hide what I was seeing. She didn't want me to like go in contact with her boyfriend at the time. So while she was coming to get me the guy pushed her and my mom fell against the corner of the bed which hurt her a lot. During that night we didn't sleep. My mom came in my room at that time I was 7 years old, 7 or 8 years old. Yes that was one of the moments that probably shocked me a bit. And right next to my desk there's actually like a vision board. So it's the ways to stay focused and stay happy at the same time. And like my schedule for the week let's say Monday I plan on making muffins in the morning and get ready for school. Go run outside and on the right names of people that are actually good source of help and good source of inspiration. My football basketball coaches, my big brothers from the Big Brothers and Big Sister Association named Alex and my mother always told me even if they label us something you have to go beyond that. You can't stay stuck in between those walls of reputation so. So I had a mission in fifth grade via a better person and I started to have a lot of good marks. Now was where I started to have a lot of 100 percent. Not to brag but my record was like 17 hundred percent in one semester.

[Indistinct chatter]

EVANS: Ricardo is one of my mom's friend and he actually became a really good model for us. We go do activities with him but he's not like the adult that's going to supervise us like we are. It's like a democracy we all have the choice of going where we are doing what we want. So it's like another friend of us. So we are five kids. One thing that we have in common is we all have the absence of our father. But that's not the main thing we have in our group. The main thing is actually are urged to explore together.

[Indistinct chatter]

EVANS: We will see that we actually go climb mountains. We do a lot of actively dance and parking lots. We explore different restaurants and we have good talks.

[Indistinct chatter]

EVANS: Or like I don't think about the fact that I'm sad because my dad has left. I mostly think about the ways I can bring him back or I can go see him. So it's never like me crying in my room because my dad is on a different continent or we're separated. Like I mostly think oh soon if I continue like this I'll be probably be able to take a flight to Nigeria. I will probably one where the word other find myself in Nigeria. Yes. So that's what I believe. My big dream is to bring harmony to this world to be in the NBA. And just to be happy.

[Music]

VOICE 1: Hey guys we just wanted to let you know that the violence Evans experienced happened a few years ago. He and his brother and their mom are all safe. But if you or someone you know is affected by a violent situation you can contact Women Aware. They help women men and families find safety. That's Women Aware 1 8 6 6 4 8 9 11 10 1 8 6 6 4 8 9 11 10. There's also kids help phone at 1 800 6 6 8 68 68. They also have a free app you can download called Always There or you can live chat with a counselor directly from their website. That is Kids Help Phone 1 800 6 6 8 6 8 6 8. Every call is anonymous and confidential.

FIONA: This is the first place I would like in Canada to get my hair cut. So it's important monuments. I don't want to stereotype but a common look among like Chinese girls would be long straight hair. Like girls have long hair, boys have short hair.

[Sound: Violin playing]

FIONA: My name is Fiona and I'm 17 years old. I've been playing violin since I was like six and I kicked a piano a few years ago and I pretty much into the perfect Chinese girl. Like I could fit into the image pretty well in the sense that I got pretty good grades and I listened to my parents and I listened to teachers. I did my homework mostly. I had always thought about cutting my hair but I was always afraid of what people would say or think or what my parents would think. And during that time when I brought it up or show them pictures of people with short hair you'd get a reaction that wouldn't be so kind. And I really don't want to disappoint them. I was talking to my mom and to hear like all the hardship and everything she had to sacrifice I didn't want to I guess disregard their efforts. If I did something else that took me out of the norm. I didn't look like a typical like girl or woman and I cut my hair then I would add an extra barrier and things would be even harder for me to get to the places I wanted to go.

[Music]

FIONA: My goal was to study hard at cities and get into Wharton. I want to start a business and make a lot of money. My parents at the time were really supportive of that idea because obviously it ensured you know financial stability but I felt so much pressure and at a certain point it got crippling. Like I didn't feel comfortable taking risks because of the expectation of 'Oh you have to be great at everything'. I felt like it be better to not do anything than to fail. Around April of last year I went to the international round of this business competition which was in California. So it was a week away from you know anything familiar. I felt kind of free and free to do what I wanted to do. I remember one point on the bus ride to the hotel when we just got off in L.A. the air conditioning was really loud and most people were either asleep or pointing at the beach. All the new palm trees which we've never seen before and I saw a few lanes over. There was a young woman driving a really cool car. And like rocking out. And she had the coolest haircut I've ever seen. She was rocking out to a radio. And yes she was just having a good time. And I just thought like I got to do that. We got to the hotel and then we had to do activities. And I skipped one of the activities so I could go to a barbershop. I was really nervous like I just kept going back and forth. But then the Barber called us up so [Sound: Buzz] They used buzzers at first. And to hear that like really close my ear. There's so much tension and I just felt [unintelligible] inside but I saw my hair and the gown and I was looking the mirror. It was almost like the person that like I wanted to look like was like being unveiled in front of me. At the end just to run my hands through my hair and feel like it ends at my neck is amazing. I was really careful in showing my parents. So what I did was I think we won top six of this business competition and we've got medals for and we took a lot of pictures. So first I just sent them like 10 pictures of like medals and where we were and then included like one picture with me with the short hair. And I don't think they commented immediately on it but my mom picked me up from the airport, she was kind of like 'you cut your hair. How are you going to get married? And who's going to like someone that looks like you?' Right. You know and they had to get used to it. But now we have normal conversations. They sometimes bring it out but not to the extent that's like you have to grow back. Now they're kind of more lenient now which is nice.

[Indistinct chatter]

FIONA: I feel really at home when I like run my hands through my hair. I know that sounds kind of weird but it just helps me stay like with myself like oh there you are.

[Music]

VOICE 2: Who am I? When people know who they are, it surprises me. The first thought that comes to my head is like you're about to be 14 you already know who you are? It's like I laugh and then give them a look. Are you really sure? But I also think that's my jealousy talking because why do they know who they are and I don’t. There's two different feelings I have the feeling where I'm in school mode or I'm in friend mode. And then the thing we're I am in sports mode. Like I'm in a fierce mode where nothing can intimidate me. I'm a fierce. Honestly deep down all of my best friends I'm annoying them, so annoying I will tease you all the time. I'm super bubbly, funny, outgoing but there is a side of me that can be angry. This morning my mother asked me to empty the dishwasher. And I said no. And once she said you have to do it I just started screaming. It's not a natural thing. I mean it's hormones and I didn't mean to scream but I feel just the hormones, it is the attitude, it is the high school. Everything just changes you. And if I think about it now that like it's so disrespectful it's not who I am it's not who I want to be and I'll use excuse my hormones. It's like well that's no excuse like I don't want to control them. I don't know what to do or don't know how to tell you. I didn't mean what I said. I didn't mean to yell at my best friend. I didn't mean to storm out of class. I didn't mean to scream at my mother this morning. It's my hormones. We're teenagers and we're growing up and we're learning things. I'm still an immature 5 year old deep down inside. Like we're still figuring out who we are. We still have daily struggles with our friends, with our family. Like it's fine to not know who you are.

[Music]

MELISSA: People think I'm a boy because I have you know short hair and I wear you know quote unquote "what boys usually wear in society". My name's Melissa I'm 13 years old. I go to a private high school that has uniforms. I'd say my style is I'm pretty masculine. I don't look like a lot of girls in my grade. Oh yes. I'm also a girl that's gay in Montréal. I used to wear the school uniform pants. My pants plus my short hair you know signaled to people that I was a boy which I'm not. So when I go to the bathroom, I mean at first it was just like some weird looks that would get. And then I remember there was one time when I went into the bathroom and that's the grade 10 girl actually came up to me and pushed me out of the bathroom and told me to go to the boys bathroom. I told her 'Do you think I'm a boy?' And she's like 'yes' but she's she really thought that. So I had to go get one of the teachers to deal with this because I couldn't go to the bathroom with this girl there. She told the girl, the girls like you know Melissa isn't not a boy she can go to the bathroom when she wants. That kind of made me scared to go to the bathroom. So it was annoying because like if I had to blow my nose I can only get a tissue because there are girls in the bathroom right. I would ask one of my friends 'can you get a tissue for me because I don't want to go to the bathroom'. And they actually like brought me. And like they like protected me in the bathroom. They're like 'Okay, this Girl is not a boy. She's allowed in the bathroom'. And people didn't mess with me because I was with people right. But I only go to the bathroom when I was with people. I wouldn't go in there alone. It was hard.[Unintelligible] I really really had to pee but I wouldn't go to that I would refuse either. No I'm not going to the bathroom. I didn't want to get pushed out. I wouldn't want to get teachers involved. I would wait until I got home. I would go to the bathroom at home.

[Music]

VOICE 3: I had a friend last year and she was a really good friend and she invited me to her house one day. I went to her house and I was very polite and I thought I was doing a really good job. I was like engaging in conversation normally. And so I was like I went home that day and it was totally fine. And my friend calls me on FaceTime which is like what did you do to my parents. And I was I was confused. What are you what are you talking about. And they were saying that that I was like a bad influence on her and that I was very rude. And I was I was I was I was mad because I was not rude. I don't remember being rude. I don't know what they were talking about. And a few years later she called me again and she asked me if I want to come to her birthday party. And I'm like oh yeah sure sounds good and I asked her what do you want for your birthday. And she said I want a final, like a final shirt. I want a men's final for like [unintelligible] or whatever. And so I got her that because that's what she wanted. So she asked me to get her. And so you know I got to her house that day and we were having fun. And then you know it was present time. So she opened the present and her parents were there and they seemed like they were like forcing a smile. They seemed fake. They seemed like fake people right there because they looked like they were like grimacing. But they were trying to smile. And so I didn't really think much of it. And then you know my friend calls me again that night and she's like I overheard my parents talking about you like in a terrible way. And so apparently they were, well, the first Mia said it was like that I was influencing the daughter to be transgender with a men's final because it was from the men's section. But I was like 'what you asked for that/. And her parents must know what she asked for. So I was like that's what you want to get you my [unintelligible] Because I want you to be a boy. That makes no absolute sense at all. They were saying like 'why are you friends with this girl? She's like a bad influence on you. She can influence you to do weird things. She's like you know she's definitely a lesbian. Like she could- she could like you know- like does she like you like that? You don't know. You got to be careful around her'. She knew that I was gay and she was fine with it. So she was defending me and her parent [unintelligible] that she was defending me and she was you know, she was getting mad at them because they were being so rude and mean to me. I think one of the reasons that they were so against it was because they were very very religious family. I mean that played into why they didn't like me or the idea of me or the daughter being gay. It was this mind they had like just because I seemed to be gay to them that their daughter was automatically going to be. But it is not how it works. Like this is not right. It's scientifically proven that you're born the way you are and you can't be like influence into it or anything like that. So they were just- it was just what they were thinking which was wrong. [Cries] I stopped talking to her for that reason really. I wish we could keep being friends. People think that you know adults are fine. But I think we certainly like people to educate adults on things that are changing in the world. People think that you know, adults are fine. We don't need to teach them anything anymore. They have gone through college and everything. There's still needs to be like centers for adults to ask questions not just their kids. If a parent has negative thoughts, they're going to pass them on to their kids. So I think that kids have to have a more independent mind. And I know that obviously as a young kid it's not going to happen. But you know once they get older the kids start thinking for themselves instead of always believing every single thing their parents say about the world, because sometimes they're not correct. Like if you're the kid of a KKK member or leader obviously what they're saying isn't right. So you can't you can't just you know believe that blindly you kind of think about it and challenge their beliefs.

[Music]

VOICE 1: Mic Drop is produced in Montreal by Shari Okeke and Carrie Haber. Associate producer on the series is Jeff Shane with editing and mixing by Crystal Duhane. Look for CBC Mic Drop on Instagram and wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also reach us via email at micdrop@cbc.ca. That's our CBC podcast Mic Drop and you can subscribe to it wherever you get your podcast. We'll provide a link at our website cbc.ca/thecurrent And we'll also bring you more Mic Drop next Friday. And that's our program for today. We'll head into the Canada Day weekend with Sloane singing about one thing being certain in life. They'll live at here in Canada. This is The Rest of my Life. I'm Mike Finnerty. Thanks for listening to the summer edition of The Current Happy Canada Day. And we'll see you on Monday.

SOUNDCLIP

[Song: Then Rest of my Life]

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