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The AIH Transcript for November 6, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

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JD: Tonight…

CO: No sanctuary. Twenty six people in the congregation at the First Baptist Church in a small Texas community are dead after a gunman walks into the Sunday service and starts shooting.

JD: He's gone but they are not forgotten. After four years in the Manus Island Detention Center Amir Taghinia has made it to Canada but the refugee worries about the increasingly desperate situation for the friends he left behind.

CO: La mayor mayor. That was the opinion of Montreal voters who chose Valérie Plante over incumbent Denis Coderre yesterday, making her the first woman to be elected mayor in the city's history.

JD: Their kids are grounded. And that is why parents whose children are erroneously on Canada's no-fly list have gone to Parliament Hill where they are urging the Finance Minister to find the money to fix the problem

CO: Steeplechase. The Ontario church where the great Harriet Tubman once worshipped has fallen into disrepair and without money for renovations it will fall apart altogether.

JD: And…Starting from scratch. A paleontologist throws out everything we thought we knew about the miny arms of the Tyrannosaurus Rex and reveals they were bad for stretching and drawing but great for snatching and clawing. As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that finds this study surprisingly far-reaching.

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Part 1: Texas shooting: nearby pastor/Texas congressman, Montreal mayor-elect: Côte-des-Neiges mayor-elect, Harriet Tubman church

Texas shooting: nearby pastor/Texas congressman

Guest: Pastor Mike Clements/Joaquín Castro

JD: Today a Texas community of 600 people is planning funerals for 26 of its members. Yesterday, during Sunday morning church service, a gunman burst into the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs. He wore black, a ballistic vest and reportedly carried a semiautomatic rifle. The dead include young children, a pregnant woman and elderly members of the congregation. Mike Clements is the pastor of a nearby church, he knew many of the victims. We reached him in Southern Springs, Texas.

CO: Pastor Clements, how are people doing today in Sutherland's Springs and in your community, which is close by?

PASTOR MIKE CLEMENTS: My church, that I pastor, is a Baptist church too, but we are 14 miles down the road but we're in the same county and so we're affected by all of this. I just got through meeting with pastors from all the area, counselors from all the area as we're trying to assess how to help in the aftermath. But people they went to church and they lost their mothers, and fathers, and children, and brothers, and sisters and grandparents. And it was a horrific day, it was a day that was terrible. But I'm kind of hamstrung in my description because I didn't lose a mother, or a father, or a son or daughter. I'm speaking from the outside. And I haven't walked where they walk. And to be honest Carol, I’ve been pastoring for about 28 years now. And so to be honest, I feel like my prayers are somewhat shallow because you just — what do you say? What are the words that you're going to have? But nevertheless, I do feel like our presence helped just by having someone there who cares. And what was so monumental, and I think paramount, is that there were so many people from the community who came out. They didn't necessarily have something to say, as I just got through explaining and describing that huge problem, but they said we will be here. We love you and we want to pray for you.

CO: You say that you didn't lose anyone as others did. And it’s not just that 26 people were killed, but there were so many others who were wounded, some are still in critical condition. Yet and not who just actually took a bullet, but this affects everyone doesn't it. These are small communities and you're close to Sutherlands Springs, everybody must know somebody.

MC: You know Carol, this whole town is 550 people and our little town of 7000 that I live in, so we're huge compared to this little. So this just cuts to the core and people are hurting. And one of the reasons that I'm doing this interview today is because I wanted to ask your listeners if they would pray for us, to pray for the victim’s families, and even for the ones that as you mentioned are in the hospital. We need everyone's prayers. And I would like to ask your listeners to please pray for us.

CO: We've heard from some family members trying to make sense of what's happened. I know the regular pastor wasn't there, though he lost his daughter. Another pastor Scott Holcombe who was there, his father, Brian Holcombe, had been the guest preacher at the church that day, and he and their mother Carla Holcombe killed along with his sister who was pregnant. Did you know the Holcombe's?

MC: Yes, I did, I did know them. And someday I'll see them again because I know what they are. And we certainly didn't plan on them going to heaven this way, but our job is to help their families, those that are left behind. We have 26 funerals that have to be planned and paid for with all these families. And Brother Frank Pomeroy, the pastor of the church, he needs our prayer, he needs our help.

CO: Pastor, you can to choose to answer my last question or not, but it does concern guns and it's something it's on a lot of people's minds today. This is the biggest shooting in Texas and the Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said this is going to happen again. What do you say to that?

MC: Yes, I'm not really speaking on the issue of guns, but I will say this. The gospel is what is needed to change the hearts and the minds of people so that they start making good decisions, decisions that are in the benefit of others — so that they start loving others. That's what we want to focus on.

CO: Pastor Clements, I'm so sorry for your loss for all of your community, and I appreciate that you speak with us today. Thank you.

MC: Thank you Carol. God bless you, bye, bye.

JD: We reached Pastor Mike Clements in Sutherland Springs, Texas. And while many politicians have issued the familiar calls for thoughts and for prayers after the shooting in Texas, some have waded into the issue of gun laws in the state. Here is Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton speaking on Fox News.

SOUNDCLIP

ATTORNEY GENERAL KEN PAXTON: We've had shootings at churches for, you know, for forever. This is going to happen again. And so, you know, we need people in churches, either professional security or at least arming some of the parishioners or the congregation, so that they can respond to something like this when something like this happens again.

JD: That was Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton. Joaquín Castro is a Democratic congressman from Texas. He grew up near Sutherlands Springs. We reached him today in Washington D.C..

CO: Congressman Castro, we just heard Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton say that one way to prevent church shootings in the future is to make sure more parishioners are armed. How do you respond to that?

JOAQUIN CASTRO: Well, the answer is not to have every parishioner in every church in Texas with an AR-15 or AK-47 in their hands. That's a ridiculous solution.

CO: But do you think some guns, you think some people should be armed?

JC: Well, people in Texas already purchase guns, keep them at their homes for protection against home invasions. There's concealed carry, and now even open carry in Texas. But when we're talking about trying to prevent mass violence like the kind that we saw yesterday, and the kind we've seen over and over in the United States in recent years there's really two pieces to that. The first one is prevention. That means trying to make sure that guns don't get into the wrong hands. So when we talk about things like universal background checks and also increased funding for mental health, those are preventative measures. But the second part of it, because even when you do that some people will buy guns legally or get them illegally and still try to commit acts of murder, mass murder, against people. So the second part of the strategy is to limit the damage that these weapons can do. And that means either banning assault rifles like the kind that the shooter used yesterday, or limiting the number of bullets in a cartridge that is up for sale. So you need both of those strategies, I think, to really reduce the kind of mass gun violence and the kind of incident that we saw yesterday.

CO: Texas officials say this shooter, Devin Kelly, did not have a license to carry firearms but he was able to buy for rifles, two in Colorado, two in Texas, and people are saying that a previous conviction for domestic violence should have precluded him from getting any of these guns. So are background checks even working? Is there any way to prevent someone from getting hold of these weapons?

JC: Well, he should not have been able to get that gun. And we're going to have to figure out exactly how it fell through the cracks. But that's right, you need rigorous enforcement of existing law. And that's part of the prevention part. And but then once somebody does have that gun— and bear in mind sometimes folks do have them legally and had had them legally and go out and shoot a bunch of people — that's why you have to limit the damage that the weapon can do.

CO: You do appreciate that people outside of the United States often have a very hard time understanding why this continues, why with the numbers of mass shootings, which are unprecedented anywhere in the world, and with the amount of gun violence, that there's not a way to cut down the number of guns, to do something to control the amount of weapons that are in people's hands. What's your answer to that? What can you say to Canadians to help us understand why this continues?

JC: A big part of it is you've got a Congress that is unwilling to take on the issue, even in the slightest of ways. Even when we've tried to do something about some stocks, for example, the device that allowed for semiautomatic gun in Vegas to become an automatic weapon. And there are many folks in Congress who are slaves to big money that the National Rifle Association, and other groups that have an interest in essentially representing gun manufacturers and selling more guns. They basically are unwilling to cross them in even the slightest way in favour of public safety.

CO: And aren’t Democrats also reluctant? Don’t you find a lot of your own colleagues in your own party afraid to take the National Rifle Association on and to try to demand that there be more gun control?

JC: There have been some, but by and large Democrats have taken this issue head on, supporting the kinds of things that I've described — outlawing the bump stocks, doing universal background checks, limiting the damage that a weapon can do in various ways — so Democrats, by and large, have taken on the issue.

CO: And what about military assault rifles like the one used in this church? Should Americans be allowed to own them?

JC: Again, two things. Either you shouldn't allow for the sale of those things and for people to be walking around with them or if they do have that kind of weapon then you need to limit the cartridge of bullets so that somebody can't fire off a bunch of rounds and kill 26 people in a matter of seconds.

CO: So we'll play to you a clip of Senator Ted Cruz speaking today and just get your response. Here is Mr. Cruz.

SOUNDCLIP

SENATOR TED CRUZ: I toured the crime scene just a few minutes ago, saw where that private citizen hid behind a car and took incoming shots from the gunman behind him. Because of that individual's bravery, shot the gunman, and as a result, stopped this murder spree. I asked multiple law enforcement agents what would have happened had this private citizen not stepped forward to engage, and to a person every law enforcement agent I talked to said the death toll could have been much, much higher.

CO: Senator Cruz obviously speaking about this somebody who was in the neighbourhood who actually took on the gunman and got into a shootout and the gunman then fled. So what do you think of, what's your reaction to what Senator Cruz has to say?

JC: I think everybody is grateful for the courageous citizen in Texas who took it upon himself to go and basically take out the gunman. But the definition of success in combating mass gun violence cannot be to allow for 26 people to die before a citizen or a police officer takes out the gunman.

CO: And this is obviously something that Canadians don’t understand either. I mean, first of all that you should have someone who is shooting at a church, but then somebody who's so close by to get in to engage in a shootout. People point out, well how does anyone, know how did the police know when they arrived at that scene who the shooter is, who the person is that they should be taking on. Isn't that an issue?

JC: It certainly is. And I think a big part of the problem here is the element of surprise. When a shooter burst into a church, or a school, or some other building and starts shooting the place up, there's chaos that ensues. People don't know where the bullets are coming from. Oftentimes they can't identify exactly who shooting. The same thing goes for law enforcement if they arrive on the scene when the shooter is still around, trying sort out who the bad guy is and who the good guys are. That's why we've seen scenes over and over as in Columbine, there's famous footage where they had all the students come out with their hands up because they simply can't tell who the perpetrator is and who were the victims.

CO: All right we're going to leave it there. Congressman thank you.

JC: Thank you.

CO: We reached Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro in Washington, D.C.

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Montreal mayor-elect: Côte-des-Neiges mayor-elect

Guest: Sue Montgomery

JD: Moins d’ego, less ego. That was the message on some of Valérie Plante’s campaign signs, but Ms. Plante’s Ego might be a little healthier now. Yesterday Montrealers handed her a stunning victory over incumbent mayor Denis Coderre, making her the first woman to be elected mayor in the city's history. And the mayor-elect will be joined at city hall by a powerful contingent of councillors from her Projet Montréal party. And one of them is Sue Montgomery, the mayor-elect Côte-des-Neiges and Notre-Dame-de-Grâce. We reached Ms. Montgomery in Montreal.

CO: Ms. Montgomery, this took many people by surprise in Montreal and outside of the city. When did you realize that things had turned in municipal politics in that city?

MAYOR ELECT SUE MONTGOMERY: I realized that as I was doing my door to door I had very few people tell me that they weren't going to vote for Projet Montreal and Valérie Plante and myself. But, you know, we didn't know for sure, you never can tell. I mean, the polls kept going in our favour, but as we know you can never trust the polls. So then we got to the location for our celebration last night they declared Valérie Plante the winner within an hour, which was amazing. We were euphoric because there were a lot of naysayers who said she couldn't do, it but she did.

CO: And you know it's not by virtue of a platform because there's not much there yet. Even Ms. Plante has admitted it’s work in progress. So it was, as people are citing, the reviews are saying, it was by style not substance. What was different about the way this campaign and the way that Ms. Plante and the party presented itself in this election?

SM: Well I think it's our approach to democracy. Valerie is very much a people person, she listens, she genuinely is interested in people's everyday lives and how she can make those lives better. But I think also it's a party that appeals to the youth. And we always hear how cynical and turned off the youth are today and not engaged in their community. But I think what Projet Montreal offered was a vision for the future that included improving public transit, improving green spaces, increasing the minimum wage to $15 for city employees, and affordable housing and social housing, and increasing CarShare programs and safe bike paths. So these are all things that appealed to a younger generation. And I think also there was a very strong feeling of young women, actually women of all generations I found, who all said to me this is our time, is this women's time. They were all thrilled to be able to vote for Montreal's first woman mayor in 375 years since.

CO: You think that the Pink Line, as it's called, there was a proposal for a new subway line, metro line that would be, well even the subway stations, metro stations would be named after women. Was that done in order to appeal to those women?

SM: I think so, and even last night our famous bridge here has lights on it that high price whatever Mr. Coderre paid for that — it was lit up in pink.

CO: How are you going to pay for it? You’re promising a massive expansion of the Metro and social housing, green spaces all these things. Where's the money going to come from?

SM: Well, if you look at where did Denis Coderre get a billion dollars to waste on a birthday party. I mean, if we had taken that money and put that into social housing, how awesome would that have been?

CO: Well, you don't have that now do you, you’ve got debt. How are you going to do it?

SM: Well, he went to the province and Ottawa, so, you know, we have very good relationship. In my own borough Marc Garneau is the Transport Minister, he just called me today to congratulate me, I have a very good relationship with him and plan to work closely with our counterparts at the provincial and federal level. And I think, you know, we built the Metro in 1967, so people are saying it can't be done, of course it can be done. Technology is much better now in terms of building this infrastructure. And frankly we don't have a choice. We can't keep adding cars to our roads. It's just not sustainable for our environment or our way of life. People right now are spending way too much time in traffic. It's costing the city, in terms of productivity and people being able to get to the workplace. So we really don't have a choice.

CO: All right I look toward a future where I'll be riding the Pink Line.

[LAUGHTER]

SM: And the bike —safely.

CO: Ms. Montgomery, thank you.

SM: Thanks Carol.

JD: Sue Montgomery is the mayor-elect of Montreal's Côte-des-Neiges and Notre-Dame-de-Grâce neighbourhoods. We reached her in Montreal.

[Music: Ambient Bass Tones]

Harriet Tubman church

Guest: Rochelle Bush

JD: Harriet Tubman story is widely known. She was a brave African-American freedom fighter. She was a conductor of the Underground Railroad. She was born into slavery, escaped, and then returned to the south, repeatedly, to help other slaves find their freedom. But there is a part of Ms. Tubman's story that is perhaps less well-known. Her connection to a small church in St. Catherine's, Ontario called the Salem Chapel. It has been designated a national historic site but the church building is falling apart and members are eager to save it. And so they have launched a GoFundMe page to raise money to cover the repairs. Rochelle Bush is the church historian. She is behind the campaign and we reached her in St. Catherine's.

CO: Rochelle, can you tell us about Salem Chapel and Harriet Tubman’s connection to it?

ROCHELLE BUSH: Absolutely. Well, the Salem Chapel is actually the site in the city of St. Catherine's. It was built by African-American freedom seekers beginning in 1853 and it was completed in 1855. Harriet Tubman, who was an escaped slave, arrived in St. Catherine's in December 1851, and she started to worship at the church when it was the African Methodist Episcopal Church. So during its transition period she was actually attending the second church and then she continued with the third church after it was built.

CO: How many years did she live in St. Catherine's?

RB: Approximately 10 years, between 1851 in 1861. So she was coming back and forth across the U.S. border during that time.

CO: And so tell us about who the congregants were, who went to this church? What was the community that it was part of?

RB: Well, it was the town of St. Catherine's at the time and the Black community was located on the outskirts of the town. It was known as the ‘Colored Village’, so the majority of people who lived in the area were, of course, of African descent. Some were free Blacks who arrived by way just crossing the border after the 1850 fugitive slave law passed. Some were runaway slaves or fugitive slaves who wanted to seek refuge shelter and freedom in St. Catharines. And then, of course, there were those that were here who were Canadian born.

CO: And who built the church?

RB: African-American freedom seekers, with financial aid from members from the local community and other people in Canada and the United States.

CO: How important was it to them that they would get that church?

RB: Extremely important, because so many black people were arriving by way of the Underground Railroad that the church became their place of solace, their place of worship, their gathering place where they could discuss matters that were of concern to them. Because so many would arrive and they left their loved ones behind, so they needed comfort. And the church, not only the Salem Chapel, but the other black church that was here at the time, was a place where they could enjoy their comfort.

CO: And what role did Harriet Tubman play in getting the Church built?

RB: She was here at the time so she would have initiated or been involved in some of the fundraising, and because we know, historically, that Harriet Tubman when she was enslaved worked in the timber industry with her father in Maryland. She was accustomed to cutting down trees, hauling logs doing things of that nature. She did the ‘man's work.’ So we have no doubt in our mind that if they needed assistance for someone to help them use a hammer and a nail or carry a plank board or do anything of that nature, Tubman had the strength and the capability to do something like that.

CO: What does the church look like?

RB: She is in disrepair. We need our front awning fixed because it could fall off at any time in any of these snowstorms. We need our gable's to be fixed because they are deteriorating, a lot of the wood has rotted. We have two lower steps that could be fixed. We have some unfinished areas in the basement that could be fixed. Our plank wood floors in the balcony or the gallery, some of them could be repaired. So the church needs to be overhauled. It needs a complete makeover.

CO: And here you are, now you're raising money much the way the people at that time raised money in order to build the church, but you're using GoFundMe.

RB: Absolutely, and we certainly do appreciate the outpour of support. So since 1855 we've reached out to the community numerous times to help with our restoration projects. So that's why we decided that we would go by way of GoFundMe and spread the word throughout North America and all around the world to see if we could get help to help us preserve the church.

CO: How much money do you need?

RB: Well, for the emergency work we're looking at $100,000. For the accessibility we're looking at about $750,000.

CO: And how are you doing so far?

RB: I just checked and we're at about $12,500.

CO: A long way to go still.

RB: Yes absolutely.

CO: And so you put out this call all over North America. Do you think that there is a connection for people outside of Canada, outside of St. Catharines, to this church?

RB: Yes. Never in our wildest dreams would I think we would receive so many phone calls and e-mails with regards to black history, Harriet Tubman her connection to the church, the Underground Railroad and what was happening here in Canada.

CO: What does it mean for you? Do you have personal connection?

RB: My connection to the church is on my mother's side. My three-times-great-grandfather was the minister in charge for a time when Harriet Tubman was at the church. The church means everything to me — I eat it, sleep it and breath it. We have to preserve the church so that she's available for future generations.

CO: Well you have a great inspiration in Harriet Tubman don't you?

RB: Absolutely. She's more powerful than you can imagine because of the outpour and the inquiries we are receiving from people throughout North America. She is truly a powerful figure.

CO: Harriet Tubman spirit prevails.

RB: Absolutely. Praise God.

CO: Rochelle it was good to talk to you. Thanks for telling us about the church.

RB: Thank you so much. Have a great day.

JD: Rochelle Bush is a church historian and a trustee of Salem Chapel in St. Catherine's Ontario, which Harriet Tubman attended in the 19th century. We reached Ms. Bush in St. Catherine's.

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Part 2: Manus Island refugee, no-fly list: parent

Abbotsford police shooting

Guest: Henry Braun

JD: One police officer is dead in Abbotsford, British Columbia after a shootout. Police say a suspect is in custody. Bob Rich is the police chief in Abbotsford. Here is some of what he had to say today.

SOUNDCLIP

POLICE CHIEF BOB RICH: At 11:35 a.m. the Abbotsford Police Department received a report of a possible stolen vehicle in the parking lot of a shopping complex. The caller blocked the suspect’s stolen vehicle while awaiting police arrival — he was so sure it was stolen. Unfortunately, a male suspect emerged from that vehicle and began shooting at the caller, and others, with a shotgun. There were several 911 calls reporting the shooting occurring at about 11:52. APD officers arrived in the area and attempted to engage and arrest the suspect. There was an exchange of gunfire. An APD officer was shot and injured during this contact with the suspect. The injured APD officer was transported to a hospital with very serious injuries. The suspect then fled the area in the stolen vehicle, was apprehended by APD officers. The suspect is a male in his 60s from Alberta. The horrible part of the story, our injured APD officer was pronounced dead at the hospital shortly after he arrived. Our priority is going to be in supporting the family and each other. I was able to meet with the spouse of this person and deliver the horrible news face-to-face. It is something I never wanted to have to do in my life, but I did it today folks. Our officers’ actions today, all of them, were absolutely heroic. I went to the scene where this happened, I went to the scene where the suspect was being apprehended and our members did their job. There were officers heroically trying to save the life of our member. There were officers immediately took control of the scene, there were officers — when they responded to this they responded in a way that was designed to protect the public. This person was trying to kill people, members of the public, and our officers responded. The officer who gave his life today is a hero. He was protecting this community. He will always be my hero.

JD: That is Abbotsford police chief Bob Rich. Henry Braun is the mayor of Abbotsford. We reached him just before the police news conference.

CO: Mayor Braun, what are you able to tell us about what happened?

MAYOR HENRY BRAUN: Well, before we do that I just want to say that everybody in our community in shock over this incident, and I don't think there's anyone that feels that this level of violence is OK in our community, or anywhere else for that matter. Our thoughts and our prayers are with the officers.

CO: How did you react when you heard that there had been this shooting in your city?

HB: Well, I was shocked and I think my first words to the chief were, “Oh no.” Because there's certain things that keep mayors up at night, this would be one of them, where one of our first responders whether it’s police or fire is injured or worse. And so I thought “Oh no,” because there have been, not police officers, but there's been a number of shootings from Vancouver through to it's up in the interior as well, and I don't know if there's a connection here at all to some of the other shootings that have been taking place throughout various jurisdictions. I will learn all of that, I'm sure, myself after a council meeting is finished around 4:30.

CO: Does it worry you about the availability of weapons, of firearms?

HB: Well, sure it does because we've all witnessed the devastation that gun violence has caused in recent weeks, and even yesterday in Texas. You know, it seems like every time I turn the news on there's been a mass shooting. Most of them are south of the border but we have our own shootings up here and it concerns me. This as this occurred in our largest shopping centre in Abbotsford, in broad daylight. And I have no details of what happened. This is just totally unacceptable.

CO: What do you say to people in Abbotsford about this violence? How would you how do you reassure them?

HB: This is — I can't remember a police officer being shot in Abbotsford. Now maybe way back when, I've lived here for 63 years, so this is not something that happens once a year once or every 10 years. But when it happens, it's devastating and it's shocking. And it reminds me that we are living in a world that was a little different than when I grew up. But we have a very good police force, obviously there must have been something going on there that turned into an interaction between whoever the suspect is and our police department.

CO: Well, we're apologizing for getting you as we want to get to you before you went into council where we won’t be able to talk to you again. We will learn more as the evening goes on and I appreciate you speaking with us Mayor Braun.

HB: And I just want to, I don't know if I said this or not. You know, every officer that is — we have 212 officers — and the ones that are working today, I'm sure their loved ones who are wondering ‘Is it my husband or my boyfriend or my significant other?’ But there's an ongoing investigation, I'm sure that's going to happen and we'll know more details as we better understand the specifics of what occurred here.

CO: Well thank you for giving your early assessment and reaction Mayor Braun and have a good evening. Goodnight.

HB: Thank you.

JD: Henry Braun is the mayor of Abbotsford, British Columbia. We reached him before police announced that one officer had been killed today. For the latest on this story go to www.cbc.ca/news.

[Music: Woodwinds]

Manus Island refugee

Guest: Amir Taghinia

JD: It has been six days since the Australian government shut down the Manus Island Detention Centre and Papua New Guinea. And for the hundreds of detainees who have barricaded themselves therein, the situation is nearing a breaking point. There is still no drinking water. There is no food, no medical supplies or power. And the next step for many of the detainees is far from clear. Australia refuses to take them in. There is accommodation in Papua New Guinea but many refugees are refusing it out of fear for their safety. A situation we told you about on this program last week. Amir Taghinia is one of the lucky ones. The Iranian refugee had been detained on Manus Island for four-and-a –half-years. Last week though, he was finally able to make his way to Canada through private sponsorship. We reached Mr. Taghinia in Coquitlam, British Columbia.

CO: Mr. Taghinia, welcome to Canada.

AMIR TAGHINIA: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

CO: What does it mean to you to land in Vancouver and to step off the plane?

AT: Well, I'm glad to be here, and I would like to say thank you to all of the Canadians and the Canadian government. I am still in shock and I can't believe that I am in Canada after spending four-and-a-half-years in one of the worst places on the planet.

CO: I want to ask you about that. And just first of all, for people to know a bit of your history, you were 15 years old when you escaped Iran because of religious persecution — you are a Christian. You ended up on Manus Island and this is the place that you have been for four years before coming to Canada. How did you end up in Manus Island?

AT: Well, I left Iran when I was 15 years old and I went to Malaysia. I was living in Malaysia for five years and I was looking desperately for finding a permanent solution for myself, as I couldn't go back to Iran and eventually my Visa ran out and I had to leave Malaysia. I went to the United Nation for refugees and they were flooded with refugees and they were basically saying if you have other alternatives go for it — it's going to take years and years and years. Anyway, I had to leave Malaysia, so I asked around, friends and here and there, and they said you need to seek asylum. I said “How, where?” They said they the safest country that is signatory to the United Nations, and Australia was obviously the nearest country to Malaysia. And I went to Indonesia, got on a boat and went to Australia.

CO: And then they put you on Manus Island, which is a detention centre that's part of Papua New Guinea, is that right?

AT: After arriving on Christmas Island I was detained there and they told me we've got a new policy, we do not want you, we do not take you anymore, we will send you to Papua New Guinea. Two men grabbed my arms, and they put me on a plane and they sent me to my Manus Island.

CO: What are the conditions there? Because we've been covering this story, most recently, because of the hundreds of men who are there, who are detained, living in just deplorable conditions.

AT: Whatever words I use, whatever story I tell you — it wouldn’t be enough. We had a mixture of everything there. The thing is, in all of these faces they were providing people with food and water. But right now I have got six-hundreds of my friends there that are without food and water. I spent four-and-a-half-years in that centre and filthy, unhygienic, unsafe, daily humiliation from Australian guards, daily attacks — you name it. We have experienced everything.

CO: Just for people who don't know the story. If I can pull some of that apart, there was a detention facility and the authorities want the men to move from there to another place in town, in a town called Lorengau, where it's been reported that there are quite serious security problems for these refugees to go there, and plus the the actual facilities are not ready to accept anybody. Now these men have refused to leave where they are and they've been cut off from food, water, electricity and supplies. Is that a fair description?

AT: Well, yes, yes. You see the thing is, the best, shortest and brief way to explain it is: out of frying pan into the fire. And these people are fleeing persecution, these people are fleeing war-torn countries and death basically. And now the Australian government is putting these people in much worse situations to convince them to go back home and punish these people in a so-called protecting their borders. But the actual thing is that the Australian government is doing these to gain political outcomes. They've got political agendas. They've got a coming election. Their parliament is almost a hung parliament. They are doing these for the next campaign that they are going to do for election.

CO: so if I understand you correctly, you believe that the Australian government thinks that they can get votes if they are tough with refugees?

AT: Exactly. You see, in 2013 they came up with this slogan of stopping boats and 70 per cent of voters voted for them. And right now, when this government insisting on this issue again, and again ,and again it means they’ve still got Australian people who are supporting this.

CO: Now that you are in Canada and you are safe, but it's clear you still have a connection with these men who are on Manus Island. What are they telling you, what are your what are your communications, if it's possible with those men?

AT: As they have cut power and everything else, it is very hard for them to communicate with me. I have prepared some solar panels for them to be able to charge their phones before I was leaving Papua New Guinea, and it is very hard for them to get used to these kind of situations, and charge their phones and all these things. But anyway, I have been trying to keep a very close contact with them, I’ve received pictures and videos from them and they send me messages that I can feel exactly what is happening. My soul, my heart, my thoughts are all there, and I know what they're going through. And the only thing I can do here for now is to make awareness and tell people please Google this, Manus Island, and see what is happening there.

CO: Mr. Taghinia, I'm glad that you're safe in Canada and I hope that your time here continues to be good. And I appreciate you telling us about these men on Manus Island, thank you.

AT: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

JD: Amir Taghinia is an Iranian refugee who was detained on Manus Island for four-and-a-half-years. Last week he arrived in Canada by way of private sponsorship. We reached Mr. Taghinia in Coquitlam, British Columbia.

[Music: Orchestra]

No-fly list: parent

Guest: Amber Cammish

JD: Alia Mohamed is only four years old. But whenever she goes to the airport to travel she needs more time, she needs more documents than the average person. And that is because Alia’s name shows up on Canada's no-fly list — and she is one of more than 100 children in a similar situation. So today, 20 families are on Parliament Hill to urge Finance Minister Bill Morneau to fund a passenger redress system in the upcoming budget. Amber Cammish is Alia Mohamed’s mother. She traveled from the B.C. to be there today. We reached Ms. Cammish in Ottawa.

CO: Ms. Cammish, when did your daughter Alia, when did she first encounter issues while traveling?

AMBER CAMMISH: Well, we have never been able to do online check-in since she's been born. We've never been able to do the kiosk at the airport since she was born. The first time that it actually became known to us that this issue was actually because of the no-fly list was on January 1st this year, when we were in Paris, B.C. and they had stopped and asked us for additional documentation in order to allow her on to the airplane.

CO: What did you finally discover was the reasons why your daughter was having these problems?

AC: The biggest problem is that they were never let us know officially if our children are on the list. We have to assume, based on all of the information and all of the previous circumstances that have happened to other children and other Canadians, that this is the reason why she is being stopped. This is a list that the government will not provide, nor is it information that the PPP, the Passenger Protection Program they set up is willing to share with us.

CO: But she is four years old.

AC: Absolutely. We have to bring her authentic birth certificate, her passport, every single time we fly. That is the secondary documentation that is required by border services in order for her to fly domestically within Canada, but even within our own province.

CO: Now her name is similar, you're presuming, to someone on the no-fly list. Do you have any idea how those names get on the list, who those people are, and who are your daughter shares a name with?

AC: No this is one of the things that they're trying to bring in on Bill C-59, which is to allow parents to be told that their children are on the list. The reason why we are asking for funding for a redress system is we know that is the solution to what our problem is for current travel.

CO: And we'll get to that in a second. This brings us to this group of families, 20 families, on Parliament Hill to try and get some kind of system in place to deal with it. All these families have kids who have a name that seems to be on the no-fly list and they also seem to have names that are Muslim sounding or Arabic sounding names. Is that right?

AC: There is probably a majority of names that are more from an ethnic origin. We're here today with David Matthews, we have met Stephen Evans, and I actually work in the office with another affected colleague of mine, and her husband's name is Richard Reid. These are three Anglo names that could be names of thousands of people within Canada.

CO: How do you propose getting this dealt with? What kind of redress system are you seeking?

AC: We want a redress system similar to what is in the U.S. The U.S. has had theirs in place for almost a decade. A redress system, or redress number, is a number that goes on your international or domestic travel ticket before you get to the airport. When you arrive to the airport or while you're doing even online checking, that is a government number that is provided to you, which means that you can then go freely throughout all of the security without any worry that they're going to ask you for secondary screening. You've been officially screened by the highest level of government and given clearance to go ahead.

CO: Now I understand the public safety minister proposed that there be a system set up like this just last year, and then that was killed by a Finance Minister Morneau’s Department. Why was that, what's the problem.?

AC: It seems to be going back and forth between public safety and the finance department. Public safety says it's a funding issue and that didn't make the cut for 2017. Funding is saying that they're waiting for more information from public safety in order to continue. Your daughter’s four years old. And so I know she probably doesn't know what's going on, but I understand some of the older kids into their teens, they don't want to travel with their parents they don't want to go anywhere. And soon they'll be able to travel on their own, go to university whatever and they're going to be on this list. And they feel as if it's embarrassing to them, there's a stigma attached to it, is that the case?

AC: That is absolutely correct. We have families that are being pulled aside in order to do secondary screening. That alone is embarrassing at an airport, to know that people are looking at you and wondering why you can't go through the airport like everybody else. We have heard children as young as 15 or 16 years old being separated from their parents, and being questioned individually on just their personal information as well as the information of their parents. The worst part is when they're going to become 18 and 19 years old and they are going to travel on their own. They're still going to be pulled aside and asked for additional screening. At this point in time there's nothing that any of us mothers can do to help the situation.

CO: And how hopeful are you that something will come from your meeting at Parliament Hill today?

AC: We think that we've made a substantial impact today, between the press conference we've had, we have over 15 meetings with MPs on the Hill today, we believe that we're making an impact. We have letters from over 50 per cent of the MPs in the House of Commons. This means the majority of the government is in support of this, and I think the more pressure we can put on them and the more MPs we have on our side will only make this go further.

CO: We will be watching this story. I appreciate you speaking with us. Ms. Cammish, thank you.

AC: Thank you so much.

JD: Amber Cammish has a four-year-old daughter on Canada's no-fly list. We reached Ms. Cammish in Ottawa. And if you'd like to read more on this story do go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient Bass]

Tyrannosaurus Rex arms

JD: Cutting Crew with their 1986 hit, I Just Died In Your Arms, seemingly a song from the point of view of someone who has just figuratively died during an ill-advised liaison. But could it also be a song from the point of view of a dinosaur who has just literally died after misjudging the strength of a T-Rex’s useless looking little arms. We all agree that it definitely could. But, if you don't believe me, believe respected Paleontologist Steven Stanley. He didn't explicitly refer to Cutting Crew in his recent paper, but he did make it clear that back in the late Cretaceous a lot of things died in those arms, on a lot of nights. According to Dr. Stanley, the T-Rex's little arms weren't that little. They were quote “not only slightly longer than the leg of a six-foot man, but also of similar girth” unquote. Plus they were extremely powerful and they ended in sickle-shaped claws eight to 10 centimetres in length, three to four inches. In all, Steven Stanley lists six traits of those arms that prove they were not just there for comic relief. As he writes in his paper quote “It's short strong forelimbs and a large claws would have permitted T-Rex, whether mounted on a victim's back or grasping it with its jaws, to inflict four gashes a metre or more long and several centimeters deep within a few seconds. And it could have repeated this multiple times in rapid succession” unquote. And Dr. Stanley knows his stuff. So unlike the guy from Cutting Crew and countless Cretaceous creatures who became a T-Rex’s dinner, he is not going out on a limb.

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Part 3: Paradise Papers, Cape Breton multiple sclerosis patient seeks roommate

Paradise Papers

Guest: Judy Wasylycia-Leis

JD: First Panama, now paradise. Inside it's millions of pages, the Paradise Papers released this week, are exposing more details about the secret, offshore tax havens of the world's elite. These papers include some 3,000 Canadians and Canadian entities. Among the mountain of details revealed is one story about a Montreal law firm called Davies Ward. The Paradise papers show that this law firm, which has represented clients closely connected to the Federal Liberal Party, engaged in a concerted 14-year-long effort to stop legislation that would have blocked offshore tax loopholes in Canada. The effort was nicknamed the “Kill Bill” campaign. Judy Wasylycia-Leis is a former NDP member of parliament who sat on the House of Commons Finance Committee in the early 2000s. She has had a chance to take in some of the details in the Paradise Papers. We reached her in Winnipeg.

CO: Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, what does it tell you that more than 3,000 Canadian individuals and Canadian companies are named in these Paradise Papers?

JUDY WASYLYCIA-LEIS: Absolutely unbelievable and shocking to hear the extent to which tax havens have become the common tax-avoidance mechanism in this country. I thought I'd see a lot of things in my 30 years in politics, but really nothing compares to what the Paradise Papers have revealed.

CO: Do you think that means that there is that many Canadians who are who are using tax shelters and ways of hiding money from the tax man?

JWL: No I think we're talking about a very small minority of wealthy individuals, three-thousand corporations and individuals is a small number in comparison to the tax burden facing Canadians on a daily basis. That means lost tax revenue for programs that Canadians desperately need and want, whether it’s in the areas of health and education, or jobs or infrastructure. Its lost revenue and that's horrific. And the Paradise Papers have revealed a problem that's been festering for a good number of years and hopefully now that it's only open something will happen.

CO: It's out in the open but it's really complex isn't it? I mean, it's so much to go through and there is one particular company that keeps coming up in these cases — a corporate law firm named Davies Ward. Can you tell us what role you understand they played in these efforts to use tax havens?

JWL: What shocked me with the release of the papers was the phrase “Kill Bill,” which came out of this law firm, which was then used to tie up a bill that was passed legitimately and democratically through the House of Commons to try to cut down on the number of tax havens in this country — it was killed

CO: And you sat on the House of Commons Finance Committee in the early 2000s, you have watched these efforts to try and pass legislation that would close loopholes so that tax havens could not be used. Tell us the story of the bill that was killed with “Kill Bill?”

JWL: What happened was the Liberals refused to do anything in the many years they were in power. Finally Jim Flaherty came in as part of the Conservative government and said in 2006 “Look we're up to 88 billion dollars in investment going out of this country. That means millions and millions of dollars lost in tax revenue, we should do something.” So we brought forward a bill, it was Bill C-33, we all agreed with the opposition parties that this had to be acted on quickly. It was passed, but then the election was called and it died. Came back into power in 2008 and introduced the same bill, went through the House democratically, went to the Senate and there it sat.

CO: So killing a bill in the Senate is something that usually Canadians are not particularly happy with because these are not elected people. How was this bill to close these tax loopholes, how was it killed in the Senate?

JWL: Interestingly, even though the House of Commons vetted the bill and agreed with its importance that it was good public policy, the Senate suddenly decide this is a bad bill and we're going to have all these witnesses and they dragged out the process and it just withered on the vine.

CO: OK. And lets is go back to the Paradise Papers with this, because there are names that keep coming up on them and this company, Davies Ward, we said that it represented the Bronfman family, the Kolber family, and the Leo Kolber was a top fundraiser for the Federal Liberal Party under two Liberal Prime Ministers, Jean Chretian and Paul Martin. He was also the chair of the Senate Committee on Banking Trade and Commerce. So what role did Leo Kolber play in killing the bill?

JWL: Well Leo would have not been in the Senate actually at that time, but he left his legacy advancing the agenda, I believe, of the Liberal Government to allow tax havens to flourish. But there were others, I mean, there was a majority of liberals in the Senate, they agreed with this memo from the law firm to kill the bill.

CO: Now Stephen Bronfman has put out — he's not agreeing to any interviews — but he put out a very categorical denial. It said Stephen Bronfman has never funded nor used offshore trusts. He's paid all his taxes, fully complied with all legal requirements, respected taxes, paid his taxes in Canada.

JWL: Well, I think he's being a bit facetious about the whole process. So I think he's just playing games by trying to distance himself, the same as the prime minister, suggesting that this issue doesn't hit him at all, when in fact he's part of a party and a government that has actually avoided closing this loophole and shutting down tax havens.

CO: It is the case, is it not, that no one named in this, none of these people has broken any laws?

JWL: Well, that's true, in fact, what we're really dealing with is a government that refuses to legislate against the use of tax havens as a way to avoid paying taxes. So we've got, really, legalised tax evasion.

CO: Isn't that a contradiction, legal tax evasion?

JWL: But that's really what it amounts to by a government that refuses to actually close this loophole, which means billions of dollars leaving the country and money's going uncollected that could be going into important programs.

CO: How much money? Can you put a dollar figure on how much money you think — taxes, tax money — was not collected because of the tax havens and the loopholes?

JWL: Oh gosh, I'm not that good at math but I understand that we're probably looking at something in the neighbourhood of about 270 billion dollars leaving this country over the last 20 to 30 years.

CO: That wasn't taxed?

JWL: That wasn't taxed.

CO: Can you source those figures, where you’re getting that from?

JWL: Yes. The auditor general, and that's the other crying shame about this issue. We've had numerous auditor general reports decrying the use of these tax havens, and there is no excuse for this inaction other than trying to feather the nests of your friends and support your wealthy establishment and corporate interests in this country.

CO: And just quickly that there was some version of this, a watered down version, passed in 2013 of that Bill did. Did that not do the trick?

JWL: As far as I can tell I don't think any money was kept in this country as a result of that bill, and from the sounds of it, it sounds like Davies Ward law firm was quite happy with that bill in 2013. That tells me it was probably a toothless piece of legislation.

CO: All right, we'll leave it there. Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, thank you.

JWL: Thank you very much Carol.

JD: Judy Wasylycia-Leis is a former NDP member of parliament and former finance critic. We reached her in Winnipeg. The Paradise Papers are based on data from Appleby, a law firm founded in Bermuda and one of the largest offshore law firms in the world. Today, the BBC's Nick Robinson interviewed the premier of Bermuda David Burt about that country's reputation as a tax haven. Here's part of that exchange.

SOUNDCLIP

PREMIER DAVID BURT: Bermuda has a world class reputation of having a robust regulatory regime. We have tax information exchange agreements with 114 treaty partners, and that means that international tax authorities are able to request information on anyone doing business in Bermuda at any point in time.

NICK ROBINSON: You say that you have a world class reputation, you know there are some who refer to you as, in fact, the world's greatest tax haven. I know it’s a charge that Bermuda has always rejected. But because you have low tax Annual Register of ownership is not public it is secret.

DB: Well here's what I would say, I would say our register ownership is public not secret. The fact is that Bermuda has known who the beneficial owners of our companies have been for 70 years.

NR: Indeed you know, but the public does not know, and is not able to know under your law.

DB: The public is not able to know under many different countries laws. But I think what is most important is the fact that we have a robust regulatory regime, which ensures that the money that is coming in from you that is clean, and that robust regulatory regime has been shown effective.

NR: there is a reason, isn't there, why the rich and the powerful bank in a tiny island. The reason is that you have a zero tax rate, and because your tax affairs are very secretive, so they can get away with tax avoidance.

DB: Well, that's the way that you prefer to state it. I do not look at it that way.

NR: Which fact in that is wrong?

DB: Well, what I would say is that Bermuda's combined rate of corporate tax is about 20 per cent. So for people and individuals to say that Bermuda is a tax free jurisdiction it just doesn't match with the facts.

NR: Your corporate income tax is what?

DB: We do not have corporate or personal income tax in Bermuda.

NR: Zero per cent. What lever are your withholding taxes? Zero per cent.

DB: We have a number of taxes in Bermuda and we are an internationally recognized leader in tax transparency.

NR: Why do you think that Google chooses to book many of its profits, not where it makes them, but in Bermuda? And the answer is an obvious one isn’t it? You have unrealistically low tax levels and you have this regime of secrecy.

DB: I do believe that your statement is inaccurate, saying that Google books its taxes in Bermuda as opposed to other places. We follow the base erosion and profit shifting, which is OECD guidelines, which basically states that any multinational company that is operating from Bermuda must disclose the place of where their money is made.

NR: Do you think Her Majesty The Queen should be proud of having money invested in the Bermuda?

DB: I think that Her Majesty The Queen, just like any other person, should be able to invest their money where they like.

JD: That was the premier of Bermuda, David Burt, being interviewed by the BBC's Nick Robinson today about the Paradise Papers.

[Music: Electric Guitar Strums]

From Our Archives: Murray Koffler obit

JD: Every day, we Canadians head to Shoppers Drug Mart to pick up our prescriptions, to buy our snacks or other household essentials — and it is all because of the entrepreneurial spirit of Murray Koffler. Murray Koffler, founder of Shoppers Drug Mart, died today. He was 93 years old. At 17 years old, Mr. Koffler took over two Toronto pharmacies owned by his dad. He graduated from the Ontario College of Pharmacy in 1946, and 10 years later he opened Canada's first self-serve drugstore at a shopping center. By 1975 he was running the largest drugstore network in the country, with two-hundred-and-fifty stores across Canada. Mr. Koffler was also the co-founder of the Four Seasons Hotel in Toronto and he founded the Koffler Centre for the Arts. He made a lot of contributions to his alma mater the University of Toronto, to fund its pharmacy department. Mr. Koffler was a guest on CBC Radio's Morningside back in 1988, after his biography was published. Here's his conversation with Peter Gzowski.

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PETER GZOWSKI: Before you ever got involved in Israel, because your early involvement grew out of your first trip there when the whole nation and the whole idea. I think of the man who has given that country so much, and then I think of the little guy who was growing up in Toronto, and I just I don't know how accurate the picture of the young Murray, young Musch Koffler is in this book. You were something of a little brat, weren’t you?

MURRAY KOFFLER: Well, I don't think so. Others maybe do, but I think so. I thought I was an ideal child.

PG: Did you go to your father's drugstore and bring all your friends in and freeload a bit?

MK: Yes. I was quite thrilled. I used to love to work behind the soda fountain and make sundaes for all my friends and put all goo on the banana split and things. I used to be a really good soda jerk actually. you know what. And then of course the first thing I did when I took over was get rid of all the soda fountains.

[CHUCKLES]

MK: Yeah right. You know what a soda jerk is without a soda fountain?

[LAUGHTER]

PG: Not hard to figure out right? Now what was the best idea you had, out of that of all the things you did to change the way people use drugstores and what drugstores have meant. Shoppers Drug Mart was nothing, and a lot of other people contributed ideas and you helped consultants and other people. But, I mean it was a lot more than getting rid of the soda jerk. What's the best idea you had?

MK: I would say that probably the most influential thing that I ever did was to develop the system of the franchise concept, and that was before McDonald's was known as commonplace as it is now. And it really came out of happenstance. I had one drugstore and I wanted to open a second one, so I left the first one with the sort of the resident pharmacist, and gave him a piece of the deal so to speak. And out of that grew the associate concept, and I spoke last night to a very large group of our people. We have, you know, a large number of stores and they're all there, and each one literally owns and operates their own business under this formula. So that I think is the fundamental structure that blossomed.

PG: It was a business idea then more than a pharmaceutical idea?

MK: Well the pharmacy idea was that in the days of my dad's time and in the early days, pharmacies were really general stores, because they had to compete, so they brought in all sorts of odds and ends — well, the classic American drugstore as we were. And what we did and what our group did, and I guess I was instrumental in leading that movement, was to clean out all the things like toys and television tubes, remember television testers, and all sorts of things and get back to basic drug business, and really market like the food market, food stores do, really mass merchandise health and beauty,cosmetics, the over-the-counter medicaments and that kind of thing, and get back to the fundamentals and do it well, so that that was the major change.

PG: You ever get mad at yourself when you want a chocolate sundae on a Saturday afternoon or you just want to go down there and have some a banana split with a cherry on top?

[LAUGHTER]

MK: I do get a thrill when I go to some of the older soda fountains in the United States and there's still some drugstores, you know. We go out to Sun Valley a bit and there's a drugstore there with a long soda fountain and I go in, and I just sit there, and I just sort of reflect and enjoy it immensely.

PG: You got rid of them.

MK: I know.

JD: That was Murray Koffler, founder of Shoppers Drug Mart, speaking to Peter Gsoski back in 1988. Murray Koffler died today. He was 93 years old.

[Music: Sombre Ambient Tones]

Cape Breton multiple sclerosis patient seeks roommate

Guest: Terron Dodd

JD: Terron Dodd loves his home in rural Cape Breton, but because he lives with multiple sclerosis he needs some help around the house. So rather than pack his bags for nursing home, he's taking an unusual approach. Mr. Dodd has posted an ad online. He would like someone to move in. We reached Terron Dodd near Whycocomaghon, Cape Breton Island.

CO: Terron, how would you describe the perfect roommate for yourself?

TERRON DODD: Not a roommate, but a housemate. Someone who is interested in the kind of things that I am interested in, which is pretty wide, but I live where I do so I can look out and see wild, natural things and not buildings.

CO: I guess your objective is that you don't want to move into a nursing home, you want to be able to stay there on the land.

TD: Yes, my mind is active and my body is active insofar as I'm able to, you know, I am woodcarver and I have a shop, a workshop in my place, and I want to be able to use that.

CO: But you have multiple sclerosis is that right?

TD: I do, my legs are pretty useless.

CO: So if you can't find someone to move in with, is it your concern that you're going to have to move into some kind of a home?

TD: I would be concerned right off that one of my daughters would live here with me. But she owns a house in Chéticamp, which is near where she works in the National Park in Cape Breton Island’s National Park. And she's got two kids, and one she has put into a French language preschool there.

CO: So she can't stay with you?

TD: She would but it would be at a cost to her.

CO: I understand it was one of your daughters whose idea was to post this ad on Kijiji looking for a housemate, someone who wants to live in Cape Breton. What are you selling, what are your selling points?

TD: It’s for people like this and I kind of place and not everybody does. I mean, I look out of my window, like I'm looking at it right now, and I see nothing but trees and grass. I don't see any other buildings or lights at night. There are some not too far away, I mean, I have neighbours but they are out of sight through the woods.

CO: Who do you hope to find who wants to share that kind of a lifestyle?

TD: I would like to see young people, a young couple probably, who would like to live in a place like this and may eventually raise a family here. I don't say they would be able to stay on my property, I don't know my will says I give it to my kids, but the one that I have talked to say they would greatly love to move to Cape Breton. They live in mainland Nova Scotia right now.

CO: And I understand some of their responsibilities would be that — well you're looking for — someone who can take care of chickens and wants to grow vegetables?

TD: That's one of a selling point on this place, that if you want to have animals well you can, if you want to have a garden you can. And I have always had a big garden here, but I can't go out and do it. And so I'd be glad if somebody else will grow the garden you know.

CO: I understand you originally came to Cape Breton, you were just a young kid, probably in your 20s I guess, in the 1960s when you came from the United States?

TD: I moved here in 1969. I first came here in 1964 and I moved here in 69. I came here first because I had a roommate from college that had come here and he was going there again. I went along with him and helped him carry some of this stuff up here for summer camp. And then once I was here, I thought well gee the price of land — it’s a beautiful place and the price of land is a lot cheaper than it is where I came from, so I looked into moving. I didn’t know what it would be like to be there in the winter. I got a job teaching school

CO: And you stayed.

TD: Yeah, I stayed home and I bought this place and I have lived on here quite a lot. Sometimes I've gone and come back in the summertime, but I moved back here to stay and so I'm here now — probably not going to other places.

CO: Well maybe some of those — we're hearing about a lot of Americans who are looking at Nova Scotia and Cape Breton the people — young folks like you were who want to move, maybe one of them will want to be your housemate.

TD: People have you know sort of advertised it, made it public that it’s a good place to come because the population has been declining.

CO: And now how many, how many responses have you had?

TD: I do not know because my daughter that put out the ad, she and her husband are looking over all these and just passing on to me the ones that look most likely.

CO: And so do you think you'll find someone?

TD: I know that find someone because I have at least talked to one person that I'm impressed with already. But I should talk to the rest of them.

CO: Well Terron, I hope you find your perfect housemate and good luck with that and thanks for speaking with us.

TD: OK, bye.

CO: Bye.

JD: Terron Dodd lives near Whycocomaghon, Cape Breton, and that is where we reached him.

[Music: Industrial Pop]

From Our Archives: wild turkeys

JD: They are ornery, they will attack you and there's nothing you can do about it. Last month wild turkeys were laying siege to parts of the U.S. In Cranston, Rhode Island one broke into an orthodontist clinic, in a photograph posted by the clinic the turkey is sitting in a chair in the waiting room like — what are you going to do about it? Meanwhile in Bridgewater, Massachusetts four of the birds chased a police cruiser down the street. On Twitter the Bridgewater police said that quote “aggressive turkeys are a problem in town,” but that they are not allowed to help solve that problem. And that is what puts wild turkeys at the top of the pecking order, in most places they are protected — police cannot shoot them. They cannot arrest them. And in New England, where the bird's population has ballooned, they're lashing out. David Scarpetti, of the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife, says that's not really their fault. He told The Associated Press quote “Turkeys don't really mean to harm people. They lose perspective that humans are humans and turkeys are turkeys. They just want to assert dominance over anything” unquote. Oh the poor things, they just want to assert dominance over anything, well never mind then. An appeasement of these bullying snowflakes, this is not a new thing. In 2011 guest host Stephen Quinn spoke with John Brassard, at the time his city councillor in Barrie Ontario. His city had also been invaded by hostile wild turkeys and Councillor Brassard, himself, had suffered their misguided wrath.

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN QUINN: Mr. Brassard, I understand you've had your own run in with the turkeys. What did they do to you?

JOHN BRASSARD: Well, about week ago Friday, I was driving down around the street and there was a lineup of cars that were there and, you know, cars were getting by slowly, one at a time and they were actually turning in oncoming traffic. So when I came up to the turkeys I basically honked my horn at them and I don't know whether it was a call to arms or not, but they came at my car and started pecking at my grill, and then came around the side as if to say ‘come on you want to go’ and that's when I was able to take off. So I mentioned it to the local councillor at council last Monday night and apparently I'm not the only one dealing with this issue. There's been lots of circumstances where people have driven by, they've had their cars packed at or slow down traffic and some, I hear, have even been chased back to their vehicles by these turkeys when they get of their cars to try to shoo them away.

SQ: Is there anything you can do to get rid of them?

JB: You know what, the city staff are looking into it. They're trying to deal with the Ministry of Natural Resources on the issue. You know, nobody wants to see the turkeys harmed, I don't want to see the turkeys harmed, but the challenge is that they're a protected species and there is a turkey hunt in the spring and in the fall. But, you know, there's no hunting within the urban boundary here and Barrie, so they can't be taken care of that way, and nobody really wants that to happen.

SQ: And I understand they've also become a bit of a tourist attraction in Barrie?

JB: I drove by there Friday and this has gained some pretty intense media attention. And I saw a whole bunch of cars parked on the side of the road, with families in there, looking at our beloved turkeys. So it has — maybe we can spawn a whole new tourism industry as a result of this. I know our economic development department is already looking at a way to attract a Butterball plant up here because of this, so you know we can turn it into an economic development and a tourism thing then that will be good for the city of Barrie.

JD: Former Barrie city councillor John Brassard explaining why Barrie is now known as the city of giant angry turkeys.

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November 6, 2017 episode transcript

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