Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2016

The AIH Transcript for May 30, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CO: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JD: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: Son-in-law rise, son-in-law set. With new revelations about his meetings with Russian officials, Jared Kushner has gone from the centre of U.S. President Donald Trump's inner circle to the centre of controversy.

JD: The offensive, and the defenseless. The U.S. pushes to wipe out ISIS in Iraq -- but in the face of torture allegations and civilian deaths, we'll ask a colonel on the mission what's being done to protect innocent lives.

CO: Clinical detachment. Ontario considers a law that keeps protesters away from abortion clinics by establishing "safe zones," and one Ottawa city councillor says the measure is long overdue.

JD: It was weird advice that she just did take. So it's ironic that Alanis Morissette's multi-platinum album Jagged Little Pill is headed for Broadway. Okay, it's not ironic. But neither is a black fly in your Chardonnay.

CO: Targeted by a fake news website. When she opened a small Indian restaurant in London, England, our guest never imagined she'd have to repeatedly defend herself against accusations she was serving human meat.

JD: And... double-double feature. On their way to an endurance relay race in Nova Scotia, one team stops at a Tim Hortons -- and when their car won't start again, an employee volunteers herself and her minivan to ensure they're still driven to succeed.
As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio whose new motto is "Donut stop believin'".

Back To Top »

Part 1: Jared Kushner latest, abortion clinic, Nova Scotia relay team

Jared Kushner latest

Guest: Matt Zapatosky

JEFF DOUGLAS: Things just aren't getting any easier for Jared Kushner. Donald Trump's 36-year-old son-in-law has carved out an influential place for himself in the president's inner circle. But now the security of his perch on Mr. Trump's shoulder could be in doubt, after a series of revelations about his connections and contacts with Russia.
Matt Zapatosky is a national security reporter at the Washington Post. We reached him in Washington D.C.

CAROL OFF: Matt what has Jared Kushner done to bring such attention to himself?

MATT ZAPATOSKY: Well what the FBI is looking at is a series of meetings he has in December after the election with Russian officials. The first happened very early December, the first or second, with ambassador Sergey Kislyak. He's the Russian ambassador to the United States. Kushner later sends a deputy to follow up with Sergey Kislyak about what, we're not sure. And then even later in December he meets curiously with a Russian banker. Why this is all suspicious is, I think one, the FBI and others are asking why Jared Kushner is taking these meetings with Russians in the first place. We also now know that some of my colleagues reported last week that at this first meeting Jared, Kushner apparently suggests setting up a secret and secure communications channel so that the Trump transition team can communicate with the Kremlin away from the eyes of even U.S. intelligence, and that's another thing that is just of interest here to investigators.

CO: Is there any innocent explanation for this?

MZ: Well he is the he is the president's son in law. He has a key role to play in foreign policy and it's up to the incoming administration to set their own foreign policy. Certainly, even if he wanted to do something in secret, that is within his rights. I think the FBI is looking to see if there is anything more nefarious there. I think a worst case scenario, and we're certainly not there yet, but would be that our foreign policy was for sale essentially, they're looking at was there some ulterior motive. But he would be within his rights to you know, conduct diplomatic interactions with a foreign government.

CO: And this is after, this is we're talking about these meetings taking place after it's been established that it seems that the Russians were trying to meddle in the election and try to swing the vote in favor of Mr. Trump, is that right?

MZ: Yeah that's right. By this time, it's pretty well known that the Russians had done this. But these meetings being after is somewhat significant and some would argue it's significant in Mr. Kushner's favor. I mean, what would what would be another worst case scenario would be that they have pre and post-election contacts and there is some sort of arrangement that then Jared Kushner has to make good on.

CO: But if that were the case, if it was something that was a positive reason why he had to, why would he try to get these meetings to be set up in secret?

MZ: Well I think that is the million dollar question. You know, if these are just regular diplomatic interactions that all transitions go through, why would this one have to be so out of the ordinary? Why would they have to develop some channel that would be shielded even from U.S. intelligence?

CO: You know, there were though concerns that they didn't trust the people who had been in the Obama administration had been employed in Washington during Obama's time as a president. So is it possible they just said “Well look, we can't trust those people. We have perfectly innocent reasons to have these meetings but we don't want to be scrutinized by Obama.”

MZ: I suppose that is possible. I don't know that they publicly have offered that particular explanation for these particular meetings yet, but they have expressed concern about Obama administration officials and unmasking and I think you hear whispers about the quote unquote “deep state.” So that certainly could have been a concern, but it's still a little unusual if you're conducting, you know, regular foreign policy, that you would do it in the regular way. You are the incoming president no matter what, you know, President Obama would have liked.

CO: Tell us a bit about this one encounter with the Russian banker Sergei Gorkov. Who is he and what would be the possible purpose of that meeting?

MZ: Well we don't know the exact purpose of that meeting. He's the head of this Russian bank which the name I won't even try to pronounce here on the radio, but he meets with Jared Kushner in late December. This is a guy who's close to Putin and whose bank was under U.S. sanctions, which is another aspect of this meeting that is a little bit curious. You know, the reason that this could be particularly problematic is if Jared Kushner kind of uses this guy for a business purpose you know, and I think everyone's worst fear here and again I'd stress that we're not there yet, is that American foreign policy excuse me was essentially for sale. I'm not saying we're there yet, I need to stress we're definitely not there yet, but that would be one thing that the FBI might be looking at.

CO: And didn't Mr. Kushner, did he report any of the meetings that he had in December with before he got his White House security clearance?

MZ: He did not initially and that's another aspect of this that is being looked at. So when you apply for a security clearance you have to fill out an extensive questionnaire and list your contacts with foreign governments. He did not list these on his questionnaire.
His lawyer says that that was innocent mistake, that he called the FBI a day later. But it's another, I mean given the description of these meetings it's hard to see how he would just forget about these. So yes he didn't list these on his national security questionnaire.

CO: Do you know anything about how his father in law, what Donald Trump thinks of Jared Kushner’s activities.

MZ: I think the White House has intimated that they think this was all OK, that they think this was all aboveboard. And their general narrative on this, on this whole investigation is that it's a witch hunt, that you know nothing that they didn't coordinate with the Kremlin during the campaign, one, and that there's really nothing out of the ordinary about these interactions. That's generally their stance.
I don't know that since the reports have broken that the president himself has addressed it in any meaningful way. But the White House has certainly intimated those things.

CO: There does seem though to be, what we're getting from reports from your paper and from the New York Times, is that there seems to be a lot of friction within the White House staff, that there are different factions within it, and that that Jack Kushner may be sort of being pushed out by those who don't feel that he fits anymore. Is that possible?

MZ: I mean it's certainly possible though, and, I'm not a political reporter I'm a national security reporter so maybe our White House people could speak more to that. But I would say that this is the president's son in law, I mean he's not just a top adviser, he is a blood relative. Certainly I think this White House has had a good degree of infighting, that's been no secret. But look, he's the president's son in law. It’s hard to imagine someone more powerful in the White House than he is.

CO: Just one last question about your paper itself, because it's been interesting watching the Washington Post in The New York Times, very competitive with each other. At the same time it seems it's almost tag team now, as each, all the reporters on both of your papers are breaking parts of this story, quoting each other as you move this story along. Is there is competition still there or do you feel a sense of collaborating a bit with other colleagues in other in other newspapers?

MZ: Oh I think absolutely the competition is still there. I don't see people at other at other newspapers as colleagues by any measure. They’re certainly in the same industry and I have immense respect for the New York Times. But I mean, there's no two ways about it. We're competitors and you know what they're going to do keeps me up at night and I hope what we're what we plan to do keeps them up at night as well.

CO: All right we'll leave it there. Matt, it’s great to talk to you. Thank you.

MZ: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

JD: Matt Zapatosky is a reporter with the Washington Post. We reached him in Washington D.C.

[Music]

Abortion clinic

Guest: Catherine McKenney

JD: Ontario may become the latest province to limit how close protesters can get to abortion clinics.
The province's attorney general says that he plans to propose a bill this fall that would create so-called "safe zones" around clinics -- so that patients and staff will not be harassed.
The push for safe zones has come mainly from Ottawa -- where the Morgentaler Clinic on Bank Street is frequently a target for anti-abortion protests.
Catherine McKenney is a City Councillor in Ottawa. She represents the ward where the clinic is located, and we reached her in Ottawa.

CO: Catherine McKenney, what have you heard from patients about what's happening to them when they tried to get to the Morgentaler clinic in Ottawa?

CATHERINE MCKENNEY: Well Carol, the stories that I'm hearing are from women across the city and staff as well who work at the clinic. And the stories include instances such as, you know being yelled that as women are trying to enter the clinic, being targeted individually, often being followed if they go into a coffee shop or try to move away from the doorway and enter another doorway or another business. Several have reported instances to me of being spat on as they're either walking into the clinic or walking away from the doorway.

CO: But there are already restrictions on where people can protest against abortion clinics, abortion providers. And in Ottawa you have bylaws that say where the demonstrations can take place, which sidewalk, how far they have to be from clinics. So what you're describing, isn't that against the law? Shouldn't that be a matter that can already be dealt with by police?

CM: The difficulty there is that our bylaw is in place to deal with larger scale demonstrations, to deal with crowds. So we ask that they stay across the street. And it's mostly for everyone's safety. But you can, as an individual protester, you can you have the right to protest anywhere you want peacefully on public space. So it's very difficult for the municipality to enforce a bylaw to keep someone, one or two individuals, across the street.

CO: What would change if this new law comes into effect, and it probably will, how will it be different for those seeking abortions are providing them?

CM: I think that what the main thing is that we will still, you will still have a right to peacefully protest and you should. And I have you know I have heard from many people, as you can imagine, who say to me, you know, you're taking away our right to peacefully protest.
I would fight for your right to peacefully protest. But you know I do argue that whether it's targeted at an individual accessing health care services, it's no longer protest. It does step over that line into harassment.
What an access zone would do is it would provide enough space so that a protester could not identify who is crossing the into that zone to access an abortion service. They may be going to work. They may be going to visit a friend, they maybe go into a coffee shop, they may be going to the abortion clinic but you will, they don't know individually who it is. So that a woman cannot be harassed as she's walking into the clinic.

CO: Does it mean that those who are protesting would not be seen by someone going into the clinic?

CM: I suppose depending on where you come from you may walk by the protesters, but the difference would be that the protesters will not be able to identify you specifically as someone who is accessing abortion services. It would be at a space far enough removed that you know, this is right in the downtown, so as you can imagine, you know, Bank Street is very busy. There's always, you know,many people walking by. So the further away you are from that doorway, the less able you are to identify who is going in there to access the services.

CO: I'm wondering how you balance out people's right to protest. I mean, they would want to be seen by those who are going into the clinic, would they not? I mean, should they not have the right to protest within view of those seeking the services?

CM: I believe that a woman's right to access healthcare services, including abortion services, in a way that's non-intimidating, that's not threatening, does trump somebody's right to protest to them individually. So yes, you know, if you are accessing the Morgentaler clinic downtown on Bank Street, you will likely still see protesters as you as you approach. They may be half a block away, they may be a block away, but they cannot they cannot target you. And I think that that's the most important thing here is that the protests today target, they don't look at someone else walking by, they're not they're not yelling at men walking to work. They're not yelling at, you know, somebody walking into another place of business. They are targeting women who are walking towards a health care clinic to access health care.

CO: Have you heard from those who are part of the anti-abortion protests. What are they saying to you in your writing as to what they think of this law?

CM: I have heard from many, and you know, some of them were not very pleasant about it. So I've not responded to them, but the ones that were, I have gone back and forth with a few. And I have explained to them, you know what my concerns are, and why I'm taking the stance that I that I am, and as a matter of fact I was asked for a meeting just yesterday and I've agreed to meet with a few residents who, you know, want to give their input into what they think is a fair compromise. And I'm more than happy to have that meeting and to sit down and to listen to everyone.

CO: We will be watching to see how this story develops. Councillor McKenney, thank you for speaking with us.

CM: Thank you very much Carol.

JD: Catherine McKenney is a city councillor in Ottawa. That's where we reached her. She represents the ward where the Morgentaler clinic is located. We reached her in Ottawa.

[Music]

Nova Scotia relay team

Guest: Melanie Landry, Lisa Richardson

JD: The Cabot Trail Relay Race is an annual event. It is a day-long event. It’s around northern Cape Breton. And this past weekend, a team called the "Dalhousie Dangerously Accelerative Ladies" participated in the race.
But some members of that team almost didn't make it to the starting line. While heading to the race, they stopped at a Tim Hortons and they ran into some car trouble.
But Melanie Landry, an employee at that Tim Hortons in Baddeck, stepped up to help them in a monumental way.
We reached Ms. Landry in Baddeck, Nova Scotia. We reached Lisa Richardson, one of the members of the "Dangerously Accelerative Ladies" in Wolfville, Nova Scotia.

CO: Lisa, I want to start with you. Take us back to this moment on the weekend when you had car troubles at Tim Hortons.

LISA RICHARDSON: Right. Well we stayed in Baddeck on Friday night as we drove down from the valley, like the area I live at Wolfville, Sheila and I, and we picked up some of our teammates in Halifax and then driven to Baddeck on the Friday. And then we woke up at 5:30 and we got in our van to go and watch the start because our other teammates were starting the leg. So we went to Tim Hortons first to get our coffee, and we went in, we went got our stuff, we got it to go, and we went back out. And then Sheila the owner of the van couldn't get her key to go into the lock to unlock the van.

CO: And what did, how important was the van for the day? Because I know this relay is, for people who don't know, it’s–

LR: It’s 24 hours–

CO: Exactly.

LR: It's like you're sleeping in it and then you're traveling from leg to leg as it grew. Like that in the team to get people to the start and then pick them up at the finish. And the other person for the next leg, so it's a continuous, like need to have a van.

CO: Was your sense of the Dalhousie Dangerously Accelerative Ladies team was kind of toast, that you weren't going to be able to do the relay at that point?

LR: My mind didn't really go that far because I was thinking “OK what can we do to fix this problem right now?” I didn't I didn't go too far ahead sort of thing. And I’m trying to think I'm like “OK who do I know that's a mechanic?” [Unintelligible] came and they got us in the van, like they got us into it, like we could get into it start it, and it was running and everything but the alarm was going off.

CO: OK. And so you just had that moment, you’re thinking “What am I going to do?” Enter Melanie stage left. Melanie, you're there, hello?

MELANIE LANDRY: I'm here.

CO: So you were, where were you when all this was going on?

ML: I was working Drive-Thru at Tim Hortons. Yeah, and I’d seen them when they came in and waited on them, and I saw them come in and out twice looking for hot water for the... and then I asked the girls what was going on, and they said “I don't know I think they're having car trouble” and I said “Oh no, it's that they're relay runners.” And so I was watching them out the drive through window for a little bit, and finally I just yelled to them and I said somebody come here. And I said if you don't get that van started, you come in and get my keys. I have a minivan in the parking lot and I don't need it.

CO: Melanie these are complete strangers, you didn't know these women.

ML: No, I’d never met them. No, I just I knew they were runners. I didn't even know what team they were running on. I didn't even know where they were from. So, your jaw dropped and you kind of just stared at me for a minute and I said “If you don't fix it, come, don't be late for your relay. Come get my keys.”

CO: So Lisa, you went over and you, what did you think when you heard this offer?

LR: Oh my goodness. I’m like “Am I hearing correctly?” And then I like, what Melanie said, I stood there for a few seconds but yeah my jaw dropped and I and I said “What's your name? I didn't even know her name.” I'm like “Oh my goodness.” This wonderful person’s offering me a vehicle and they don't even know my name or where I'm from or anything and I couldn’t believe it.

ML: Well the way I saw it, I live right in town. I'm probably what maybe two kilometers from Tim Hortons to my house. And it's a small town. It’s Baddeck. If I need to drive, I have 15 people I can call for a drive. You guys didn’t, you guys are from out of town.

CO: But Melanie, you didn't know them at all and now, and this isn't just over a period of time where you could, did you exchange anything? Did you get phone numbers, credit cards.

ML: No, actually. They came in and they said “OK we actually need the keys. Can we have them?” And I said “Sure” and I went and got them and then we were saying goodbye, and my sister yelled at, my sister works at the same Tim Hortons, and she said “Melanie at least get somebody's phone number.” And I said “Oh, OK, can I have someone's number?” So Bree, I think, gave me a number. Yeah and that's how it happened.
And then I think you guys were halfway up around the trail by the time I said “Oh so where are you guys from by the way?”

CO: So Lisa, you carried, in this other woman’s, and you knew her name, I presume at this point.

LR: Yeah, all we knew was her first name, Melanie. Yeah, yes.

CO: And you're in her minivan, and you're and you're headed to the point that you have to be in the relay. So what happened?

LR: Well we're driving, we drove to the next leg as it was continuing on and we were driving and we're just you know all like stunned like all of us. We were chatting about like that who was who was doing what leg, and who was transporting who and Sheila who was driving she just kept saying like “I can't believe she just lent us her van.” Like it was just like every time it was unbelievable. I could not believe it.
We were telling this story all throughout the race and people like, I'm new to Nova Scotia. I've only been here since, it'll be three years in October. And people were like “Well welcome to Cape Breton.” That’s what Cape Breton’s all about. And I'm just like wow.

CO: OK you know let's go do the race itself because, can you tell us a bit about how you did Lisa?

LR: The team we were on, it was all women. And a lot of the women on the team are from Dalhousie or are going there currently, or former Dalhousie students so they’re like 20-somethings and Sheila and I are 45. So we were the moms of the team. [lv] Anyways, so we just like, I had to run my leg. I ran leg 13. And that started at 2:10 a.m. And I'm just like I don't remember the last time I saw 2:10 a.m. It was probably when my kids were younger, but I haven’t recently.
And so we were all just transporting everyone to their legs and it seemed to be going well and she and I realized that these women that were on the team with were fast because they were winning. Like first female like in their leg. And we were just like “Oh my gosh, what have we gotten ourselves into?”
But then I ran my leg and I was like second female. I don't know I think like the whole van situation and this stranger lending us a van totally made me feel like oh my goodness, like anything's possible. Yes. I was just like wow. So I'm still like in a daze. Like today I'm walking around thinking “Did that really happen or was it just a dream?”

CO: And what happened? How did the Dalhousie Dangerously Accelerative Ladies do?

LR: We were first female team.

CO: Congratulations.

LR: Yeah it's incredible. It's a wonderful event.

ML: Bragging rights.

LR: Yeah it's totally wonderful and you know, you got to go and do it. If you don't just go and drive it. Do they do the relay. Get a team of 17 and get out there and do it because it’s so well organized and people Baddeck and Cape Breton are amazing.

CO: Now Melanie you know this race right? You have you've been in the relay before.

ML: Yes, I've done it for three years. I didn't do this one but I did 2016, 15, and 14.

CO: And did they beat out your team?

ML: They did. They did.

LR: We weren't intending to. I know that was the only thing I said when you guys were leaving, I said “Just don't don't kick my team’s butt.”

LR: But yes that's right. I know, I know and we had no idea.

CO: Well Melanie I think that you might be the mascot of the Dalhousie Dangerously Accelerative Ladies and you should join that team next year it seems to me.

ML: I'm not fast enough for their team.

LR: Oh you know what? No you are. You're definitely, no. We do it all for fun. And I thought I wasn't fast enough but I don't know what happened at 2:10 am but something lit a fire behind me.

CO: Never believe them when they say they do it just for fun. They do it to win.

LR: It's amazing race. It's such a such a neat event.

CO: Melanie you got your van back?

ML: I did, yes.

CO: In good shape?

ML: I was shocked at how clean it was. I didn't expect it. I didn't expect a mess because I just didn't, but I was astonished at how clean it was. I actually thought you took it and cleaned it.

LR: Oh, well we tried our best to keep it, because it’s not ours. So you don't, like it when it's something that's not yours originally. I know in parking sometimes too, we're all like “Oh.” But it worked out well.

CO: It sure did. Both of you, Melanie and Lisa, it's just great to speak with you. What a great story. Thank you.

LR: Thank you.

ML: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

LR: Bye.

ML: Bye.

JD: That was Melanie Landry in Baddeck Nova Scotia, and Lisa Richardson in Wolfville, Nova Scotia. And if you'd like to see some photographs, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

Back To Top »

Part 2: ISIS US Colonel, Indian restaurant fake news

ISIS US colonel

Guest: Ryan Dillon

JEFF DOUGLAS: Iraqi forces, with support and coordination from the U.S., have launched a new offensive to defeat ISIS in the Iraqi city of Mosul. But there are some 200,000 increasingly desperate civilians living behind enemy lines in Mosul. And there are questions as to how seriously the coalition is taking the risk to their safety. Last week, the U.S. finally admitted that a bomb dropped in March targeting two snipers, killed over 100 civilians. Colonel Ryan Dillon is the U.S. coalition spokesman for Iraq and Syria. We reached him in transit near Kuwait City. And we do apologize for the quality of the line.

CAROL OFF: Colonel Dillon, U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis says the U.S. is switching to quote “annihilation tactics” to fight ISIS in Mosul. What exactly does that entail?

RYAN DILLON: What we are doing is making sure that we isolate ISIS as much, well as much as we can to isolate them to ensure that they are not able to depart from within their stronghold.

CO: OK so when you say isolate, that's not the same as annihilate. And he has gone on to say that our intention is that the foreign fighters do not survive the fight to return home to North Africa to Europe to America to Asia. We're not going to allow them to do so. Does that mean they have to be killed?

RD: In the case of the fighters that are in the West Mosul, we fully expect them to fight to their death. So yes, that does mean that they will die.

CO: And is there any policy to take prisoners?

RD: Well, we would take prisoners and we would fall into the laws of armed conflict, and we would make sure that, and when I say “we,” I mean the collective security force, they are the ones who are leading the fight into Mosul. So it will be up to the government of Iraq and their authorities to decide what they would do with the ISIS fighters. But I'm confident that they would make sure that they would not be able to get away either.

CO: There are 200,000 civilians trapped behind the lines in Mosul. And we have heard reports about shortages of everything; food, water, medicine. How could you annihilate ISIS without also killing many civilians?

RD: The Iraqi security forces have alerted those who are remaining in West Mosul to get out of the old town and the old city if they can, and if can safely. ISIS is using humans as shields. They are herding them into buildings and structures to goad the Iraqi security forces and coalition forces to then strike those areas. But the Iraqi security forces and the coalition forces who support them are doing everything that we can to mitigate civilian casualties.

CO: Last week the Pentagon released the results of its investigation into that U.S. bombing of a building in Mosul in March. You were targeting ISIS there but over 100 civilians were killed in that in that attack. How do you expect the Iraqis, the people in Mosul to trust the United States and your partners on the ground, the Iraqis, if this is what's happening to them.

RD: Well first of all the results of that investigation pointed to that it was the secondary explosion by explosives that were placed in the building by ISIS that caused catastrophic failure of that building to collapse and therefore kill those civilians.

CO: If it was the Iraqi forces who called in that strike, would they not have known there were civilians in that building?

RD: They, the civilians that were in that building were there for many days. And this is something that we came to understand through multiple interviews with people in Mosul from that district, who were familiar with what had happened in the days leading up to that.

CO: But you said they were there for several days. How could the Iraqi forces who called in the strike not know that there were civilians in the building they were calling in the strike on?

RD: Because if you have been in a very congested area in the city and you are looking at it from one perspective, your are limited to what you can see. Yes. They had eyes on the building, but they didn't have a full 360 degree view of everything around that particular area.

CO: But it's not just what ISIS is doing, planting these bombs but the monitoring site Airwars has reported that between 283 and 366 civilians have died from coalition airstrikes in Iraq and Syria just in April, just in the month of April alone. What is considered an acceptable level of civilian casualties right now by U.S. forces?

RD: Well we take all allegations of civilians actually very seriously. And we assess the evaluations and if the results of that assessment come out we are responsible, we have been very open and transparent with releasing that information every single month in our monthly civilian casualty reports.

CO: OK. I don't think you quite answered the question. If you’ve said that civilian casualties is a necessary evil in this defeat of ISIS, what is the acceptable level of civilian casualties by the United States?

RD: Our goal is to have zero civilian casualties as a result of our strikes but we are going to defeat ISIS and we must ensure that we follow when we do, the loss of our conflict, and we go through a very deliberate process to make sure that we minimize civilian casualties.

CO: Hasn't it been shown though that one of the best recruiting tools for ISIS are these civilian deaths, are these strikes on these communities that actually creates a motivation for people joining up?

RD: ISIS uses propaganda and that is another one of these things that the coalition and not just the military efforts but also the greater coalition we’ll go after to make sure this propaganda and the fights that ISIS uses are also dismantled and degraded so they cannot use them.

CO: We have seen video footage smuggled out of Iraq by a journalist and broadcast on ABC News. It appears to show Iraqi special forces, the ones that we have been speaking of who are the ground forces in Mosul, we've seen them, what appears to be they're torturing and executing of civilians in Mosul.
These are the forces that you're asking us to trust to prevent civilian casualties. Do you consider what they did to be war crimes?

RD: The coalition, as with all allegations and with this one in particular, we provided to the Iraqi security forces and the government of Iraq. We certainly and the coalition do not condone or support any violence and [unintelligible] in conflict. And we work very hard in our training of Iraqi security forces. The Prime Minister has stated that everyone will abide by the laws and he has zero tolerance policy for any improper action.

CO: Will there be consequences for the troops involved in that torture?

RD: That is something that will be decided by the government of Iraq. They are a sovereign entity and they will say, they will look into this investigation and make a recommendation. And if this soldier is held accountable, It will be up to them to decide what they must do.

CO: These are your partners on the ground. You’ve just said that you trust and rely on them and their judgment. So how can you say this just up to the Iraqi government to decide whether they did something wrong?

RD: As we've said, we do not condone or support any violation of the laws of armed conflict and they would be unacceptable and they should be investigated in a transparent manner, and those deemed responsible held accountable in due process and Iraqi law.

CO: Colonel Dillon, thank you for coming on the program.

RD: Thank you. Goodbye.

JD: Colonel Ryan Dillon is the U.S. coalition spokesperson for Iraq and Syria. We reached him in transit near Kuwait City. And for more on the story, or to share it or listen again go to our website, cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Chainsaw carver

JD: They carved, with chainsaws, from morning to evening for almost three days straight. If I did that, the end result would be basically just be a pile of sawdust. Likely blood. They did make some sawdust but they also created an award-winning work of art. Over the weekend, a team of Canadian carvers took first place at Kettensagenschnitzertreffen. That is a German chainsaw-carving competition, held in the middle of a forest.
Robbin Wenzowski is one of the carvers from Team Stihl Canada. Here, he describes the team's winning design.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBBIN WENZOWSKI: Well the theme was Lord of the Rings. But because of copyright we're not really supposed to post that it's Lord of the Rings. And I think one of the reasons why we took first place is because we changed up the theme a little. We did a tree Ent in-action where he's actually ripped a dragon apart and he's stomping on Orcs. And we called it the Orc stop.
Look, I had this concept, I really wanted to do a tree Ent. But instead of a friendly tree, one that's had enough of all this stuff going on, and just wanted to stomp the hell out of Orcs. In metric it's close to 2 meters tall overall and with its arms stretched out, it's probably two and a half meters. So in imperial, it would be about eight or nine feet tall, by probably seven feet across.

JD: That was Robbin Wenzowski, speaking from Eibau, Germany, where he and his team won first place in a chainsaw-carving competition,

[Music]

Indian restaurant

Guest: Shrina Begum

JD: Karri Twist is a small Indian restaurant on 338 New Cross Road in London. It serves Tandoori Chicken, Navratan Korma, and Lamb Chettinad, among other things. That is the real news. Not to be confused with the fake news reports that Karri Twist serves human meat.
That is absurd, obviously. But about three weeks ago, someone did publish that story using a website called Channel23news.com. And ever since, Karri Twist has been getting prank calls and fake orders -- and fewer and fewer real orders.
Shrina Begum is the owner of Karri Twist. We reached her in London.

CO: Shrina, what kind of calls have you been getting at your restaurant?

SHRINA BEGUM: Fairly abusive calls where people have been saying why are we selling human meat, we're disgusting. We should be bombed. Our restaurant should be bombed. I should be bombed. Just literally hate rhetoric all the way through.

CO: And this is based on these fake news reports that your restaurant was caught selling human meat. Is that right?

SB: Absolutely yes. It is directly in relation to this.

CO: But you didn't know that at first. What did you think was going on when you started getting these odd calls?

SB: Well, the thing is, we were completely nonplussed by it because people were calling up and some people were being fairly incoherent, where they were just saying “You’re disgusting. I hope your restaurant closes down. You should be closed down.” And we couldn't quite gather what was going on.
Obviously, after a little while, we got one person who could coherently string a sentence together and tell us that there'd been a ‘news article’ in inverted commas that our restaurant had been closed down. That nine human bodies had been found being prepared to go into the human food chain and that the owner had been arrested.

CO: And this is on a Web site called Channel23news.com and it was distributed on Facebook?

SB: Yes. When you go onto their website, it’s a prank website, but when you go into the search bar, you put in “Indian restaurant” you will see that Karri Twist, my Indian restaurant, comes out alongside several of the Indian restaurants with exactly the same news story attached to it. And Channel23news.com is literally for pranks, apparently.
The person who runs this website is based in the States, in Wisconsin, and another news organization did get in touch with them. But they've done nothing to actually take this down [unintelligible].

CO: What specifically did they say about your restaurant Karri Twist in this fake news story?

SB: Specifically, that the restaurant had been closed down, that nine human bodies had been found, that these bodies were being prepared to be cooked with our food basically. That we were serving human meat in our food tent, and that the restaurant owner had been arrested. And they gave a male name, of Rarjan Patel. Clearly you’re speaking to me now, I'm clearly a female. So I mean, they were clearly playing to sort of stereotype of sort of Indian restaurants being owned by males.

CO: There are other Indian food restaurants that were also being targeted with the same story, is that right?

SB: Absolutely there's about four or five other Indian restaurants with exactly the same story attached to them. There was also a takeaway restaurant up in Birmingham which is sort of another four or five hours out of London who also hit by the same story as well.

CO: What's happened to business since this started?

SB: It has just been dreadful. I mean, our business has completely lobbed off. [Unintelligible] We're at half or less than half our normal trading figures.

CO: And you've also had people going by taking pictures of the restaurant.

SB: Yes absolutely almost like Halloween is quite ghoulish. We've even had people coming in threatening us with brick saying you know it’s the least that they could do is brick in the restaurant and you know the windows and things. We even had a gentleman coming in to demand where the nine dead bodies were for him to see them.

CO: And so you contacted the police, you've you're trying to find out what you can do about being attacked this way and how have you been able to actually even report the incident to Facebook or to whomever?

SB: Well this is the thing. I mean this is three weeks in. And the only way one can actually get in touch with Facebook is if you are ready to report a post. Now these posts are being sent to each other with privacy settings. And I have googled, I have tried in so many different ways to figure out how to get in touch with Facebook and there is literally no way of me reporting this problem to Facebook because Facebook don't want to know about these fake news stories. They want to propagate it on their website. It would seem to me.

CO: You mentioned, whom you believe is the person behind it, this is Buzzfeed the news agency, in their research they found that this Channel23news.com is one of about 19 sites of false news that is generated through this young man, 25 year old guy in Milwaukee who does it for fun and profit. And he basically makes these sites available for people who want to make up stories and post them. What can you do to stop him? Is it possible?

SB: I think it is possible. I think it would involves social media companies actually taking responsibility for their websites and how they apply their algorithms in terms of allowing for certain uploads. They can stop these sorts of uploads almost instantly if they took enough interest and cared enough to stop the spread of fake news.

CO: So you say your restaurant is in dire straits right now because of it. Is anyone trying to help you? Your clientele your customers are they supporting you?

SB: Our regular customers all supporting us. We even had the local MP, Vicky Foxcroft come in. She is absolutely lovely. We didn't even get in touch with her. She just came of her own accord and she had a meal and then she put it on social media as well.
We’ve had other customers, who have been lovely, just come in just to give us a hug, to tell us that you know, we'll get through this.
My father opened this restaurant over 60 years ago and it could very possibly close down under my care because of this fake news story.

CO: Shrina, I'm so sorry to hear this is happening to you and it's important for the world to know this and I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

SB: Thank you so much for your time and for taking interest in my story. I really appreciate it.

CO: All right good night.

JD: Shrina Begum is the owner of the Indian restaurant Karri Twist. We reached her in London. And I misspoke on the way in. The fake news site. Was Channel23news.com, not Channel123news.com. We have posted more on this story on the As It Happens website, cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Jagged little pill musical

JD: The curtain goes up. Centre stage is a young woman in a sweater that's on backwards and inside-out -- and you say "Howowow appropriate."
If that made any sense to you whatsoever, then you might actually be in the audience in New York in May of 2018, when the musical Jagged Little Pill opens on Broadway. Although even if it did make sense to you, a staged version of Alanis Morissette's classic 1995 album may not make sense to you. At least, not right away.
It has been four years since Ms. Morissette first announced the album would be adapted for the stage. And then there were no further announcements -- until today. Turns out it's really coming together. Obviously, it will feature songs like You Oughta Know, Ironic, and You Oughta Know.
Less obviously, the book will be written by Diablo Cody -- who wrote the movies Juno and Young Adult. Even less obviously, it will apparently be about -- to quote from the Hollywood Repoter -- "a modern, multigenerational family and their complex dynamics, touching on issues of gender identity and race." That's ambitious. But so was Ms. Morissette's album. What remains to be seen is how those songs about lousy relationships, believing in yourself, and a misunderstanding of the word "ironic" will work on Broadway. I mean, we know they sound great in concert and on the radio -- but will they go down in a theatre?
The creators still have a year to figure that out. So break a leg, everyone. But not literally: that would be ironic. Or something.

Back To Top »

Part 3: Manuel Noriega obit, cemetery mystery

Jeremy Corbyn

JEFF DOUGLAS: Earlier today, U.K. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn found himself in an awkward spot on BBC Radio's Women's Hour.
Interview Emma Barnett asked him about the cost of his party's ambitious universal childcare plane. The policy proposes thirty hours of free childcare to all kids aged two to four. That sounds expensive policy. Probably very expensive. How expensive? That’s a good question. Just ask Jeremy Corbyn.

SOUNDCLIP

EMMA BARNETT: How much will it cost to provide a un-means tested childcare for 1.3 million children?

JEREMY CORBYN: It will cost ... it will obviously cost a lot to do so, we accept that.

EB: I presume you have the figures?

JC: Yes, I do. It does cost a lot to do it, the point I'm trying to make is that we're making it universal so that we are in a position to make sure that every child gets it and those that can, at the moment get free places will continue to get them, those that have to pay won't and we'll collect the money through taxation, mainly through corporate taxation.

EB: So how much will it cost?

JC: I'll give you the figure in a moment.

EB: You don't know it. You're logging into your iPad here. You've announced a major policy and you don't know how much it will cost?

JC: Can I give you the exact figure in a moment?

EB: Is this not exactly the issue with people and the Labor Party which came up under Gordon Brown, that we cannot trust you with our money?

JC: Not at all. All our–

EB: You don’t know the figure.

JC: All of our manifesto is fully costed and examined.

EB: You're holding your manifesto, you're flicking through it, you've got an iPad there, you've had a phone call while we're in here and you don't know how much it's going to cost.

JC: Can we come back to that in a moment?

EB: Well look, my point is it's quite troubling. This is a policy you’re launching today Mr. Corbyn and you don't know how much it's going to cost. Hardly inspires the voters.

JC: I think what is important for the voters to understand is that if we don't invest in our children, and we don't invest in them for the future then they do less well in primary school, less well in secondary school and less well in the future.

EB: But you don’t know the cost.

JC: I want to give you an accurate figure.

JD: That was UK Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn on BBC Radio's Women's Hour earlier today. At a campaign event after that interview, Mr. Corbyn said “I didn't have the exact figure in front of me so I was unable to answer that question for which I obviously apologize. But I don't apologize for what's in the manifesto and I will explain exactly what the cost is” unquote. The cost is 4.8 billion pounds. The U.K. election is June 8th.

[Music]

Manuel Noriega Obituary

Guest: Christopher Dickey

SOUNDCLIP

GEORGE H W BUSH: On Wednesday, December 20th. I ordered U.S. troops to Panama with four objectives: to safeguard the lives of American citizens, to help restore democracy, to protect the integrity of the Panama Canal treaties, and to bring General Manual Noriega to justice. All of these objectives have now been achieved.

JD: That was January 4 of 1990, and U.S. President George H. W. Bush had finally got his man: Manuel Noriega had surrendered.
For the infamous Panama dictator, it was an astonishing conclusion. Mr. Noriega was at one time a trusted CIA informant. Now, he was Public Enemy Number One, and the target of the biggest drug bust in U.S. history.
Manuel Noriega died yesterday, after suffering a severe brain hemorrhage. He was believed to be 83 years old.
Since that fateful day in 1990, Mr. Noriega lived out his days in prison -- in Miami, Florida, then in France, and finally in Panama.
But before that legal odyssey -- and before the U.S. turned their back on him -- he was Panama's strongman. That's how Christopher Dickey came to know him in the early 1980s. Mr. Dickey is an American journalist who interviewed Mr. Noriega several times during that period. We reached Mr. Dickey in Paris, via Skype.

CAROL OFF: Christopher, you have described my Manuel Noriega as one of those terribly transparent tyrants whose flirtations with insanity are right there on the surface for anyone to observe. And this was the Noriega that you met in the early 1980s. Can you describe what he was like?

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY: My first impressions were formed actually by getting into his office. He said a couple of his thugs to pick me up to take him to the office in the basement, really underground, in the National, Panamanian National Guard headquarters and then all of a sudden I was in a waiting room where there were little toy toads on the on shelves and pictures all painted on black velvet of children with big eyes with tears rolling out of them. Later I discovered that toads, sapos, it’s the Panamanian argo for a police informer. That's why he collected them.
Then, while his secretary was dusting around me for some reason, as I sat waiting to talk to him, I noticed that her toes through her toes through her sandals, and her fingernails, were painted quite elaborately with red spider webs, which obviously was something she did just to please him. So I thought “Aha, we are going to be dealing with a strange guy.” When we started talking he started talking about how poverty in Panama was like a wet dark mold that smelled and people suffered as a result and I frankly I didn't know exactly what to make of this except that I thought if he was the intelligence chief talking about poverty that way, probably he had political ambitions and indeed that was the case.

CO: So you're describing how Mr. Noriega had these ambitions. And what was his path to the president's office then?

CD: Well, because he was the intelligence chief. He'd been appointed by Omar Torrijos, the strong man who had negotiated the Panama Canal treaties. He knew where all the bodies were buried. And in fact, he’d probably buried quite a few of them himself. He was completely ruthless. And it was clear that he felt that he deserved somehow to be president or at least the dictator of Panama. He was also one of these people that you look at who is kind of desperately insecure, probably that was related to the fact that he came from a very poor family, but also that he’d had terrible acne as a young man and his face was really quite badly scarred by it, which is one reason that his political enemies took such a light calling him “la piña,” the face of a pineapple. So over time what he did was essentially maneuver everyone above him into positions where they could either be forced to resign or eliminated in other ways. There's always been a little bit of a question mark about what happened to the man who was his mentor, who put him in his position, Omar Torrijos, who died in a mysterious plane crash apparently because of bad weather.
And then there was a president named Aristides Royo, who resigned, he said, because he had a sore throat. And at that point, I was actually communicating fairly frequently with Noriega, and I called him up to Mexico and I said “You know, listen Colonel, I can't really say in the Washington Post that Royo resigned because he had a sore throat. This was a coup right?” And he paused for a minute and he says “Well, you know, don't quote me, but yeah you can say it's a constitutional coup a la Panamenia.”

CO: And so you’re describing a ruthless, powerful, insecure dictator, but very useful at least the beginning to the United States and the CIA. What was his role with Washington?

CD: Well I think you have to look back at what was going on in Central America those days. It was, it had become sort of the fulcrum of American policy, fighting the Soviet expansionism, fighting Cuban expansionism. This was in the period right after the Sandinistas that overthrown Somoza in Nicaragua. There were fears of a huge revolution in El Salvador. All these countries that most Americans had never really heard of before. There were also central to the growing drug cartels in Colombia, the Medellín Cartel particularly was trans-shipping a lot of cocaine through Panama and it was laundering a lot of money there.
So all of a sudden had Castro, you had CIA efforts to overthrow the Sandinistas, you had the Medellín cartel, all coming together in Panama. None of them could do anything without Noriega basically working with them and he worked with all of them which made him potentially a great source of intelligence for the CIA. But there was also the feeling that he was selling information to all sides.
Finally by about 1986, the United States was fed up with this. The Reagan administration and then the Bush administration started looking for ways to get rid of Noriega. And over the Christmas holidays of 1989, they invaded Panama with about 25,000 troops and took him out.

CO: And this is of course just after four U.S. soldiers had been shot up at a checkpoint, one of them died. So the U.S. went in there pretty heavily. They were able to flush him out and arrest him and when he, can you described the scene of what we've seen of how he was taken to the United States to face justice for his drug activities?

CD: Predictably it took a couple of years to put him on trial, and in order to convict him, the U.S. government had to offer special deals to many very senior members of the Colombia cocaine cartel. So much so, that at one point Noriega's lawyer said that if any more immunities were offered, it would solve the prison population problem in the United States. But eventually of course, they were able to convict him. There was really never any doubt that they would find a way to put him away for life. And of course he died at the age of 83 in a Panamanian person.

CO: As crazy as history is and how many different angles there are on it, what do you think Manuel Noriega represents in that seething time of Latin American politics?

CD: What Noriega represented was also that particular moment in American policy when the CIA felt that it could do just about anything during the Reagan administration. This was exactly the same time, you'll remember, that the CIA was working very hard to support the so-called Afghan Arabs and the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, that later became the foundations of al-Qaida and the Taliban. In Noriega's case, it was fairly easily solved once he went off the reservation as far as the American government was concerned, he treated Panama as what Panama had long been, a dependency of the United States and it just eliminated him. In other parts of the world, the situation was much more complicated.

CO: We’ll leave it there. Chrisopher, I appreciate you sharing your insights with us. Thank you.

CD: Thank you.

JD: Christopher Dickey interviewed Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega in the 1980s. Mr. Dickey is currently an editor with The Daily Beast and we reached him this evening in Paris via Skype. Again, Manuel Noriega died yesterday. He was 83 years old.

[Music]

MMIW inquiry

JD: She was the first to tell her story.
Earlier today in Whitehorse, Frances Neumann spoke to the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. This week, public hearings began, finally, after months of criticisms from families of victims, who have been critical of the inquiry's lack of communication. Ms. Neumann told the inquiry about her sister-in-law Mary Johns -- who was found dead in Vancouver decades ago.
Ms. Johns’ death has been linked to Gilbert Paul Jordan, a man nicknamed the "Boozing Barber." He was convicted of manslaughter in a different women's case. He was said to offer his victims alchohol. Ms. Neumann said though, today in her testimony, there were never any charges in her sister-in-law's case. Here’s more of what Ms. Frances Neumann said to the inquiry today.

SOUNDCLIP

FRANCES NEUMANN: I'm not a brave woman. But I want justice done. My brother is gone. My nephew is gone. But I promised I would see it through. And every fiber in my body is shaking to my boots. Please, please see this through. We have come up and it for many years to see the results. Don't sweep it under the carpet.

JD: That was Frances Neumann speaking earlier today during public hearings in Whitehorse for the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls.

[Music]

Cemetery mystery

Guest: Bob Sterne

JD: Over a century ago, the mining town of Granite Creek, British Columbia was a boomtown. Now, it's a ghost town. But every week or so, Bob and Diane Sterne pay the place a visit, to look after the historic cemetery there.
Recently, they made an odd discovery: a number of holes had been dug in the area. Even more odd. This is not the first time they've found something like this.
Bob Sterne is the treasurer of the Granite Creek Preservation Society. We reached him in Coalmont, British Columbia.

CO: Bob, can you describe these holes you saw in the cemetery?

BOB STERNE: They're quite small, a foot to a foot and a half across. We didn't really re-excavate. So I don't know exactly how deep they are but I would imagine maybe a foot deep.
Consistent with what you often see when people are metal detecting.

CO: Metal detecting, so you think someone is scavenging through these graves for what valuables they might find in them.

BS: Well yeah or not in the graves themselves but around them. The area where this happened is the Chinese section of the cemetery. The Granite Creek cemetery is kind of divided into a pioneer area and a Chinese section. Most of the Chinese graves, or nine of them at least were exhumed in the 50s or 60s with the intention of sending the remains back to China. We understand there are still some remains there. We've been told there are six Chinese remains still in place, but there are no records for that area of the cemetery.

CO: Who do you think may have dug these holes?

BS: We have no idea. I would think probably basically a treasure hunter. The reason I say that is we've run into this situation at least twice before. First time was eight or 10 years ago. My wife and I, we’re kind of part time caretakers volunteer caretakers at the cemetery, and we were up there doing some work and some people got out of their car and went into the Chinese area and started sweeping with metal detectors. And I went over and I said you know “You realize this is a cemetery.” And their answer was “Well it's only the Chinese area.”

CO: Really?

BS: Yeah. And I went “Well you know, it's a little bit disturbing,” and they kind of looked at me funny and said “Well, if it bothers you I guess we'll leave.” And I said “Yeah, that would probably be a good idea.”
The next time was two or three years ago. We found some holes very similar to the ones we saw on Tuesday in the Chinese area, and there were also some in the pioneer section, and in fact somebody had actually moved a headstone and dug a small hole under the headstone.

CO: It’s not possible it was done by animals or something?

BS: Not a chance. Not a chance.

CO: Can you tell us a bit about why there is a Chinese section in this Pioneer Cemetery?

BS: I guess the custom of the day would have been segregation. The Chinese area, the Chinese quarter in Granite Creek was separated from the town site, not by any kind of fence or anything but it was in the downstream area of the town, and in fact when the town burned down in 1907, only three buildings were reported to have remained: the Caribou House Hotel and the jail and Judge Murphy's house. Everything upstream of those houses burned to the ground.

CO: And what nobody bothered to say was that the entire Chinese quarter survived. It was downstream of the Caribou House Hotel.

BS: We have pictures from before and after the fire and you can see the entire Chinese area intact after the fire.

CO: And who were the Chinese people who were there?

BS: They were mostly placer miners. There would have been a few prostitutes, storekeepers as well. At least one vegetable gardener, a chap by the name of Frenchy who is much beloved by the people of the day. In fact, he was so well-respected that after the fire, he became known as the mayor of Granite Creek. His nickname, Frenchy, two stories to that, one was the whites used to quite often jump the Chinese claims so he named himself Frenchy because nobody ever jumped the Frenchman's claim.
And the other story was that he was Vietnamese and spoke French. We have no idea which is true.

CO: And when you say jump the claims, this was gold mining I guess.

BS: This is placer mining, yeah. People using gold pens and picks and shovels and rocker boxes and sluice boxes to get the gold nuggets out of the creek, and the gravels in the bottom of the creek and everybody had to have a placer miner license. And each person was allowed to stake a 100 feet of ground. In some cases they would form companies so they could take a larger piece of ground. If you had six people, you could stick 600 feet. But it was it wasn't uncommon for people to just go in and take over a claim.

CO: How many people lived in Granite Creek in its peak?

BS: Two thousand people in 1886. It was the third largest town in British Columbia.

CO: You and your wife take care of the cemetery and you seem to have a fair bit of knowledge about it. Why is granite Creek important to you?

BS: I think all heritage sites are important. You know, we’re kind of history buffs, particularly my wife and I don't know we just kind of fell in love with the area. When we first came up here in 2003, we bought an old cabin that was built in 1912, and that's now the house we're living in. It's originally it was 360 square feet and we’ve enlarged it and added to it and added a motel to it. And we've been living here since fulltime since 2007, but we started looking after the cemetery in 2004. It was in horrible shape terrible disrepair. There were trees falling over the picket fences and underbrush everywhere and we just started cleaning it up and it took a few years and now it's quite nice up there. There are flowers starting to grow as the sunlight filters through the trees and then we find tulips and daffodils and this afternoon we're going to go put in some lilies of the valley.

CO: And we're the people who are buried there, were they all from other places? Did they did they have any connections or roots to this day in British Columbia, in that part of B.C?

BS: It would have been tremendously varied. I mean most of these gold towns were you know very opportunistic people. They would come in and you know toil for gold as well as long as it was there and then move on.
The town was at its heyday in 1886 and into the early part of 87 started to decline. 1907 it burned to the ground, partly rebuilt. The main shopkeeper there F.P. Cook, he actually had three stores, one in Granite Creek, one in Coalmont, one in Princeton. He died in 1918. He was the postmaster and they closed the post office and that was pretty much the end of the town.

CO: Back to the holes in the cemetery, what are you going to do about that?

BS: Well actually somebody came up with a really good idea and we're going to start hiding some bits of scrap metal. So if anybody goes up with a metal detector they'll get pings all over the place and we're going to put a notice on the sign. I mean we have a sign up there that says absolutely no metal detecting, digging, or treasure hunting in this heritage cemetery. And on that sign we're going to put “This area has being salted. If you're using a metal detector you're wasting your time.”

CO: Bob, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

BS: OK. Thank you very much for the call.

JD: Bob Sterne is the treasurer of the Granite Creek Preservation Society. We reached him in Coalmont, British Columbia.

Notley on B.C.

JD: There was a seismic shift yesterday in British Columbia politics. But Alberta premier Rachel Notley says that shake-up isn’t going to put a stop to the Trans Mountain pipeline project.
Yesterday, as we told you on this program, the Green and New Democrat parties in BC have agreed to work together, in what could become a minority government. Both parties are staunchly opposed to expanding the capacity of the pipeline to carry Alberta's oil to the West Coast. But Ms. Notley's opposition to that opposition is equally staunch. And today, in Edmonton, she insisted that the Trans Mountain pipeline will be built. Here is Premier Notley, for the record:

SOUNDCLIP

RACHEL NOTLEY: Our view of the matter, and one that I think will be supported ultimately in the courts, is that the decision has been taken. It's been taken by the federal government. It was taken by a federal government that was committed to balancing and driving towards two goals at the same time: environmental sustainability and economic growth on behalf of the whole country. Because that was the values that the federal government was looking at as it was considering its decisions. We were very pleased that the work that the government of Alberta has done ensured the approval of the decision to move forward with Kinder Morgan by the federal government.
So we'll going to… we will continue to advocate on behalf of all Albertans, and quite frankly all Canadians’ economic interests to get that pipeline done. And mark my words: that pipeline will be built. The decisions have been made and it is in the best interest of Albertans, Canadians, and in particular might I say, British Columbians. And you know, there may be debate but at the end of the day we're quite confident in the strength of our position.

REPORTER: And as a follow up the legalities aside how are you going to address the emerging political reality that many people in British Columbia are prepared to dig their heels in and that they just don't want it?

RN: Well there's no question that we need to continue to make our case in a number of different forums. And certainly now that the U.S. election is over, I'm quite happy to do that as often as possible in the B.C. forum. Quite honestly, the province of B.C. can't grow solely on the basis of escalating housing prices in Vancouver and Lower Mainland. They need stronger economic growth. And the reality is is that in interior B.C., they need the jobs that this pipeline will provide. And quite frankly, all Canadians need the jobs that come from being able to demonstrate to the world that we are a competitive and strategic country and nation that is able to function in a sophisticated way in an international market.

JD: Alberta premier Rachel Notley, speaking in Edmonton earlier today.

[Music]

Sound of the Day: Reformation Robot

JD: Five hundred years ago, Martin Luther posted his ninety-five theses to a church door in Wittenberg, Germany, setting in motion a Europe-wide religious and cultural upheaval. So to mark the anniversary of that historic moment, the German town is unveiling "BlessU2," a Reformation Robot.
Now, we'll probably have to wait another half-millennium to know whether "BlessU2" will hold the same place in history as the entirely human Mr. Luther. But the priestly android does recite blessings in five languages, print them out of its touchscreen stomach upon request, and simultaneously shoot light beams from its hands. None of which Martin Luther could do, as far as we know.
So here's a bit of what "BlessU2" sounds like, along with my rough translations. It is our Sound of the Day.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Beeping, whirring sounds, robotic voice speaking in German]

JD: Greetings! Would you prefer a blessing from a male or female voice?
Excellent! Which blessing do you require?
God bless you and protect you.
May his face shine upon you and show you mercy.
May God turn his face towards you and grant you peace.
Go in peace and may God bless you.
Thank you for your visit. Goodbye!

JD: That is "BlessU2" the Reformation Robot delivering a series of blessings in German. The robot is on display in Wittenberg, Germany as part of an exhibit to mark 500 years since Martin Luther wrote his ninety-five theses and set the Protestant Reformation in motion.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

May 30, 2017 episode transcript

More Stories Like This