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The AIH Transcript for March 8, 2017

Hosts: Susan Bonner and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

SUSAN BONNER: Hello I'm Susan Bonner, sitting in for Carol.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

SB: Variety and the spies of life. It's being called the biggest leak of CIA documents ever. And if it's real, WikiLeaks has revealed that the agency can spy on you through your TV even when it's off.

JD: They were dressed as doctors. But they were not at the hospital in Kabul to help, they were there to kill. And tonight, a journalist tells us about the deadly attack that ISIS says it orchestrated.

SB: Off target or not, she's in the bull’s-eye. To mark International Women's Day an investment firm installs a bronze statue of a girl in front of the Wall Street bull — although critics are bearish on the project.

JD: All bets are off. An important update on when exactly a certain someone will be returning to host this program. And a hint: OK, it's like the night before Christmas. So get ready for a carol.

SB: He just flew into Tampa and boy, are his firearm's tired. A video of our guest firing a submachine gun into the Gulf of Mexico from a plane has people wondering whether the sky actually is the limit.

JD: And… frying blind. Google says it takes only five minutes to caramelize onions. And when one journalist sets out to challenge that ludicrous claim, he finds a search engine is using one of his articles to justify that answer. As It Happens the Wednesday edition, radio that wonders should I sauté or should I go.

[Music: Theme]

Back To Top »

Part 1: Wikileaks CIA hacks, Wall Street statue plane gun shooters

Wikileaks CIA hacks

Guest: Matthew Green

JD: WikiLeaks is back. And this time, it has something more than campaign e-mails. The anti-secrecy organization has released thousands of what it says are secret CIA documents. The trove of secrets seems to be from the agency's Center for Cyber Intelligence and it appears to reveal tools the CIA uses to hack into phones and other devices including TVs. The documents are being treated as authentic, although the CIA is refusing to confirm their validity. Matthew Green is a cryptographer, and an assistant professor of computer science at Johns Hopkins University. We reached him in Baltimore.

SB: Matthew Green, to begin can you explain for us in simple terms what these documents reveal.

MATTHEW GREEN: Well, they're kind of an amazing leak. What these documents are is basically a set of very technical descriptions of spying tools that were developed or purchased by the CIA. And these are tools that can hack things like your phone or your smart TV, and they can turn them basically into spying devices. So that the CIA can listen in on what you're doing.

SB: And so the documents are revealing how the CIA can turn these bits of technology that we have in our everyday lives into spyware?

MB: That's correct. Yes. And by the way, from a technical point of view this isn't very surprising. We know that it's possible to hack most of these devices. Many of these devices like your phone or your TV have microphones built in. And so we've known for a long time this could happen. What's really amazing here is to see all of this secret CIA documentation about it show up on WikiLeaks.

SB: And what do we learn in this documentation about how the CIA is using these hacking tools?

MG: Well, we don't learn very much about how or who they're using them against? What we learn is what kind of devices they can compromise. We learn exact versions about what devices they can compromise for example, which version of iOS, which is the iPhone operating system, and you know we even learn how the exploits work in some cases in very deep technical detail.

SB: So if the CIA knows about these vulnerabilities in these devices, what does that tell us about who else might know about them and how they might be used?

MB: Well, we've known for a long time that most devices that have software in them are vulnerable and we see routine compromises of these devices where people hack them and you know either brag about it or sometimes feel credit card numbers and so on using these hacks. So the fact that the CIA, which has a lot of resources, is using their resources to do this shouldn't be all that surprising. And you know it tells us not to much more than we already knew. What's really worrying is that these hacks are leaking out into the general world. It's kind of like being a bunch of weapons leaking out of the military and winding up on the streets and should not be happening.

SB: As I try to get my head around some of this. For example, one of these documents reveals this code name “Weeping Angel”, which is related to the Samsung television. So are we to understand that those of us who own Samsung TVs might have our television turned against us and secretly record what we're doing in the privacy of our home is that possible?

MG: Well, I mean it certainly is possible. I mean these devices are pretty much always, they’re computers and they have microphones. So if somebody can get software into your TV that activates the microphone, they can record audio and they can stream that audio out to whoever wants to listen in on it. The good news is that in many cases this seems to require some kind of physical access to your TV to maybe come in and maybe put a USB stick into your TV to do this. But that's not always the case either. So this is definitely a pretty amazing capability.

SB: What about encryption and what do the documents reveal about the effectiveness of encryption?

MG: Well, the documents mentioned a couple of encrypted apps one of them is “Signal” and another is “WhatsApp”. These documents don't describe any way to break that encryption. What they do point out is that if I hack your phone, it really doesn't matter what kind of encryption you're using because if I can see what you're typing into the phone and I can see what's showing up on your phone screen. The encryption is irrelevant. The encryption is what happens after you type things into your phone. If I own your phone and control it, then that encryption doesn't help you at all.

SB: Now WikiLeaks has said, as it released these documents, that it that that the source wishes to initiate a public debate about, “Security creation, use proliferation and Democratic control of cyber weapons.” that's a quote. But others have suggested that the documents could have been obtained through hacking by say a foreign power. What do you make of where these documents came from?

MG: Well, I mean the biggest comparison we have right now is the Snowden Documents, which came out in 2013. In that case we had a person — a whistleblower — who had serious qualms about what the NSA was doing. Felt that there was mass spying going on and for ethical reasons decided to release these documents. Many people agree or disagree with that position. But at least we understood the position. What's different here is two things. First of all, we don't know anything about the person or persons who allegedly leaked these documents. And secondly, we don't have a very clear reason. There is no evidence in these documents of illegal behavior or mass spying or even you know lying to the public.

SB: But yet you called them amazing?

MG: Well, I mean it's amazing from a technical point of view. It's amazing in the sense that you don't run into secret CIA documents every day. I'm not convinced that it has the moral weight that the Snowden leaks did, which you know they really did reveal some very new capabilities we were not aware of. These documents don't reveal behavior that seems particularly out of the bounds of what we expected the CIA could do and we don't really understand the motivation of the person who leaked them. And that's unusual.

SB: Well, do they at least reveal that the CIA is vulnerable to having its own secrets revealed?

MG: They definitely do and I think that's a very big concern. You know this is not supposed to happen. And clearly there is something very wrong if CIA technical documents and maybe even source code are leaking out and are appearing on websites in the public domain.

SB: Fascinating stuff, Matthew Green. Thanks for helping us out with it.

MG: Thank you for having me.

JD: Matthew Green is a cryptographer, and an assistant professor of computer science at Johns Hopkins University. We reached him in Baltimore.

[Music: Ambient]

Muslim Women’s Day

JD: Today in Ottawa, young women took the place of their Members of Parliament. To celebrate International Women's Day, 338 delegates, one for every riding, took over the House of Commons. It was part of a program called “Daughters of the Vote”. And a speech by one of the delegates particularly stood out.

SOUNDCLIP

SROSH HASSAN: Madam Speaker, Islamophobia is a heavy word in today's discourse, but it is heaviest for those who are on the receiving end of it. As a Muslim woman of color, in a time of overwhelming stigma, I fear of being othered, profiled and killed in a country I call my own. My identity is challenged. And my actions are heavily scrutinized. I'm simultaneously silenced into shame while being expected to apologize for the actions of a small group of people that do not represent me. We are all shaken from acts of terrorism, but they affect our communities most because they divide us from within as well as from other Canadians. Whether we have been contributing for generations or whether we're new immigrants seeking refuge or opportunities. We are Canadians. We all have a responsibility to challenge a growing culture of ignorance rather than justifying xenophobia and prejudice under the veil of free speech. My heritage is not a political platform to campaign on. Unless cherished as complex and as rich as its people. This is my Canada and there is no seat for hate here.

[Sound: A great deal of cheering]

JD: That was Srosh Hassan, a University of Alberta student who took the place of her MP today in the House of Commons. She spoke out, as you heard her, about Islamophobia.

[Music: Piano concerto]

Wall Street statue

Guest: Brie Williams

JD: The giant, bronze bowl on Wall Street has company. To mark International Women's Day, a prominent money management group has installed a statue of a girl confronting that bull — her hands on her hips, her ponytail flying. We reached Brie Williams, Head of Practice Management at State Street Global Advisors, in Boston.

SB: Ms. Williams, What's the message you want to send with this statue of the girl?

BRIE WILLIAMS: Today, we're calling on more than 3,500 companies across the U.S., the U.K. and Australia that we invest in. So we can take intentional steps to increase the amount of women that are on their corporate boards. And I think a key contributor to effective, independent board leadership is having diversity of thought. After all if you surround yourself with everyone who thinks just like you, then you're not going to push past any means of challenging other approaches.

SB: So give us an idea of the state of play right now. How many women have a seat in boardrooms and at the top levels of management in the corporate world?

BW: So if you look at the current state of gender diversity in corporate America, I am going to be using the S&P 500 companies as our benchmark here. Women make up about 45 per cent of the workforce for the S&P 500 company index. And when you look at the top of the pyramid, which would be the CEO. Women are only 5.4 per cent represented and then 20 per cent of women are board members and only 25 per cent hold executive level positions. And despite the various and numerous corporate initiatives that we've seen of late, changes to these results have it barely budged in the last 10 years.

SB: Why is that?

BW: I think there are several factors that stymie the progress bias. Be that conscious or unconscious is partly to blame. If you add that bias to sweeping generalizations such as the notion that women prefer support roles or a perception that women are not interested in executive level positions. It becomes difficult to really move the needle on gender diversity.

SB: It's sometimes difficult to get your head around the fact that these kinds of things are still at play in the year 2017. Your title is Head of Practice Management. Have you faced some of these biases some of these roadblocks?

BW: Well, I like to look forward when I think about my career path and not backwards. And we all internalize and interpret actions that have happened to us throughout our careers and lives differently than what someone may directly tell us. I do feel fortunate that I've had a great bench of mentors and sponsors to help me along my way. I do think the road, of course, was not completely smooth and I am happy to say I really felt overtly being stymied in my path by simply being a woman.

SB: Beyond installing this very evocative statue. I understand your company is putting some financial pressure on corporations to increase the number of women in boardrooms. Your company is one of the largest asset management companies in the U.S. How does that work?

BW: So rather than wait for companies to take action themselves or simply rely on legislation to be enacted. If we look at our product example, which is State Street Global Adviser Gender Diversity Index, which is an exchange traded fund. The ticker symbol is “SHE”. That was designed to track against a proprietary index comprised of…

SB: But it's still a money making venture for your company, so it's kind of Wall Street versus Wall Street isn't it?

BW: No, “SHE” provides a way for people to invest in companies specifically through gender lens investing. And a portion of the proceeds go back to organizations that help us create future leaders from our young girls. The Gender Diversity Index is just helping create a standard that companies can all aspire to in their respective industries.

SB: And the goal is as you state to put women in in leadership and you've outlined why that's important. What do you say to critics who say what about fighting for higher minimum wage or pay equity, maternity leave, those kinds of things? Why not focus on women on the lower rungs of the corporate ladder?

BW: Well, I do believe in some times the saying seeing is believing. And to see women in positions at the top and the middle as well as in the entry ranks is inspirational for all.

SB: How do you see this unfolding? How quickly will women experience the kind of change you're pushing for?

BW: Not as fast as we would all like. Unfortunately to reach parity we're talking something further out. More like 2030 in terms of seeing some significant move on the needle when it comes to board representation. So keeping the conversation relevant and making inspirational and bold statements that help challenge us all to hold ourselves accountable. So we are looking at diversity not just in terms of gender, but age, race and even sexual orientation. And for us to achieve true parity, diversity of thought, we have to keep striving to do better.

SB: So that little girl, the symbol, that young girl in the statue is going to be all grown up before we get anywhere near 2030?

BW: Correct. But you have to keep going and when I look at that statue and I see her positioned against the bull. I see a can do spirit and I see young women through senior leaders today who are trying to make a difference and taking charge and inspiring what comes next.

SB: Brie Williams, good to talk to you. Thanks very much.

BWL: My pleasure. Thank you.

JD: Brie Williams is the Head of Practice Management at State Street Global Advisers. We reached her in Boston. Today, to mark International Women's Day. Her company installed a statue of a girl staring defiantly at the Wall Street bull.

[Music: Ambient]

Carol’s back

JD: This week the U.S. Championship Cheese Contest is being held in Wisconsin. And with twenty-three hundred entrants, the competition is intense any way you slice it. Of course, the 2015 champion was a Swiss made in Millersburg, Ohio by Guggisberg Cheese. So the question this year is whether the time is ripe for an unripened cheese to…

[Sound: Rustling in the studio]

CAROL OFF: Hi, is this a good time?

JD: Oh my… Carol Off? Carol Off, is it you?

CO: Oh, I’m sorry. You’re on the air.

JD: No, no, come in. It’s fine.

CO: Are you sure? I just wanted to say hello to people.

JD: Oh, Carol you've forgotten how to… there's a little button there that says “mic on”

CO: Oh, sorry. Hi.

JD: My gosh.

CO: Wow, it's been a long time.

JD: Has it ever. You know I'm so happy you're back. I'm going…. Yeah.

CO: I know I have to say I had so many so many messages from people, tweets, mail from listeners, from associates here and it was very touching and I appreciated it. When you have pneumonia for a long time, you need that. And so I have to thank them first of all because it was just lovely.

JD: Well, we certainly have had a lot of questions here too.

CO: And I will have questions tomorrow. But I've been gone since like beginning of January, so any news? Anything changed? Anything happened?

JD: No, not much has gone on at all.

CO: OK, so it's kind of been a slow news period?

JD: It has been really slow, yeah.

CO: OK, you'll clue me in tomorrow then?

JD: you'll be fine.

CO: OK, I can’t wait.

[Music: Indie]

Plane gun shooter

Guest: Mark Serbu

JD: It was just like any other day at the old shooting range: just three people taking turns far in a fully automatic submachine gun. There were a couple of key differences, instead of firing at paper targets, they were firing into the Gulf of Mexico, off the coast of Florida. And instead of shooting from a standing position on the ground, they were shooting from a sitting position while flying a small plane. They made a YouTube video of their airborne water-shooting in which you can hear one of them asking, “Can this be legal?” And perhaps unsurprisingly, that video is not getting great reviews from everyone. Mark Serbu was one of the people firing at the golf from the plane that day. He is the owner of Serbu Firearms in Tampa, Florida.

SB: Mr. Serbu, can you describe what you were doing in this video?

MARK SERBU: Yeah, we were flying a plane around. And, obviously, at one point we were shooting machine gun out of the window.

SB: Why?

MS: It’s one of the questions, “why”? People have been asking me that and what can I say? You know bucket list, because we felt like, it's fun, because we can, I don't know, It was something to help Dan, the YouTuber, who came in to visit us from Georgia. It was to help him come up with some kind of you know exciting, entertaining, different video and it definitely accomplished that.

SB: What was exciting and entertaining about firing a weapon from a plane into the ocean?

MS: Have you done it? It's a thrill. I mean I can just gather by you know the fact that you're in Canada first of all, and second of all, just a little bit by your tone that you know you probably don't have a lot of familiarity with guns. But I've been a gun designer and manufacturer for over 20 years, and I find that people even those who have bad opinions of firearms. When they first encounter them, they fire them a few times and most people are kind of exhilarated and thrilled and it's something about that the concussion from the firing. It's just people like fireworks displays and the big booms that rattle your whole body. There's just something about it. And at the end of the day, we didn't hurt anything or anybody or anything. And it's beautiful to be able to do that and be allowed to do that.

SB: What do you say to the people who have seen the video and bring up the question of safety concerns about what you're doing? It might be fun it, might be exhilarating, but is it safe?

MS: Well, that's one thing I've been telling people is just like anything you watch in the movies. Don't mistake the tone of the video for what really went on behind the scenes because the two are not the same. I have a degree in mechanical engineering; I’m actually a very very cautious and careful guy. And you know while it looks like we're just out there haha you know glad handing each other and having a good old time and just goofing off. We're very very safety conscious. We were extremely careful with the handling of the firearm. There's no safety issue at all.

SB: What safety measures did you take?

MS: Well for example, the gun was never loaded in the plane. We would stick a magazine in it. But there was never around put into the chamber until the barrel is actually cleared outside of the plane. And as soon as the firing was finished, if they were still around in the chamber, which generally there wasn't. The gun would be cleared. And the magazine removed before it was brought back in. So he never had a loaded gun inside the plane. And also we trained with the gun beforehand and my daughter and I have actually been up shooting in the plane before. And so we're very careful about where with respect to the aircraft parts we were aiming.

SB: But you've described it as being fun and exhilarating but I'm trying to understand the point of just firing out of a plane towards the water? There's no target. I can understand that it would be fun to shoot at a target because you can measure your success. I don't understand the point of just firing into the air?

MS: Ask yourself, here you are on a radio show in Canada and you're calling me about it. Now do you see there's a point at all?

SB: So you were trying to get attention?

MS: I mean we made the video with Dan to make an exciting video for him. And obviously it went a little bit beyond those expectations. But there's a lot of things that people do in life that don't have to have a very very good reason. No we weren't training, we weren't trying to hit targets that were stationary in the water or anything like that. I feel blessed that we're allowed to do something like this and just have some kicks and not have any real repercussions from it.

SB: In the video Dan, the YouTuber, asks what are the legalities for doing this. And you actually said that you weren't sure. So have you learned since the video went public?

MS: come on listen, I said I don't know, I didn't ask. It was totally deadpan humor. I guess you don't you don't know me, so you don't understand. But of course, I had thoroughly researched this before and checked with all my fellow pilot friends. I have friends at the FAA, so yeah that was deadpan humor. I was like I don’t know, I didn’t ask.

SB: What about the Federal Aviation Administration? It said that it's looking into the video. Have you heard from them?

MS: Yeah, of course, and they have to because there's going to be a fair amount of people who are going to call into the FAA and say oh my God look at this! You've got to do something. So the FAA has to do something. And yeah, I'm going to be meeting with him later this week. But I'm not worried. We've already we've already certainly gone through all the regulations, the police have been called and the aviation authorities have been called and they all know there's nothing wrong here.

SB: So you think you're perfectly within your legal rights to do this?

MS: Sure. I'm a 55-year-old mechanical engineer. I'm not a dummy. I take some risks, but they’re are calculated risks.

SB: Do you ever think about the idea of putting a video out there like this might encourage people to go and do this who aren't engineers and who don't know guns the way you do?

MS: You know there's always that possibility no matter what. But the people who do knee jerk stuff like that tend to be the kind of people who couldn't really pull it off anyway I would think. I don't know. You can't live your life worried that you're going to somehow inspire somebody do something stupid. The U.S. would stopped at the Mississippi River if we all had that attitude.

SB: But as a gun expert, don't you have some responsibility to the idea of the gun culture?

MS: I don't think I'm going against that. I think it boils personal responsibility. You know you do your own thing; you make sure you're following the rules you're not going to get in trouble and you're not going to hurt anybody whatever.

SB: What do you think of the negative attention you've received? I know that “Do it with Dan” when he posted the video, had to take it down after a while because there were so many negative comments?

MS: And he took it down just because he was annoyed. He's used to putting a video up and just everybody loves it. Well, this one there's just so much crap on there. He was just like screw it, let me get rid of this. But negative attention, I mean you know I've been in the gun business for over 20 years. I'm used to negative attention. And a lot of it is just people looking for attention just trying to make a stink and a lot of it's truly people are concerned and some people just don't understand. And you know you're going to go through that with your life in just about every aspect.

SB: Would you do it again?

MS: I guess I'll have to see what the FAA says.

SB: All right. Mr. Serbu, thanks very much for talking to us.

MS: Sure thing. Thank you.

SB: Bye bye.

JD: Mark Serbu is the owner of Serbu Firearms Incorporated. We reached him in Tampa, Florida. Last month, Mr. Serbu took part in a YouTube video that went viral in which he shoots a submachine gun into the Gulf of Mexico from inside a small plane. You can watch the video and read more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Kabul hospital attack, caramelized onions,

Kabul hospital attack

Guest: Bilal Sarwary

JD: They arrived at a Kabul military hospital this morning dressed in lab coats. But it became clear almost immediately that none of them were medical staff. Afghan officials say three men with guns and hand grenades stormed the hospital. They went from floor to floor firing indiscriminately. It took six hours for Afghan security forces to gain control of the building and neutralize the attackers. And when it was all over, 30 people were dead, 50 others wounded. ISIS has claimed responsibility. And the attack has highlighted the growing threat posed by that terror organization in Afghanistan. Bilal Sarwary is an Afghan journalist, he was outside the hospital as the attack was ongoing. We reached Bilal Sarwary in Kabul.

SB: Bilal, you were I understand about 300 meters away from this hospital as that gunfire went on for about six hours. What did you see and what did you hear?

BILAL SARWARY: I was able to see a lot of people waving and asking to be rescued from the fourth, fifth and sixth floors. So that almost reminded me of the 9/11 attacks, those images sort of came back to me. We saw Afghan Special Forces fighting against these attackers. We saw helicopters dropping Afghan Special Forces on the roof of the building.

SB: You refer to these images that made you think of 9/11. Tell me more about some of the things you saw?

BS: What we saw was constant gun battles between Afghan Special Forces and several attackers. And as the attack went into the afternoon, everyone knew that this was quite deadly. So I could hear mothers wailing. I could hear worried family members coming down the street. I was able to speak to one Afghan lady, whose husband had got killed and she was just literally crying until she passed out on the side of a road. So it was quite tragic. Most of those killed and injured, were doctors nurses and wounded members of the Afghan National Security Forces.

SB: Can you tell us about this hospital? Its prominence and its significance?

BS: Sardar Mohammed Daud Hospital is the main military hospital of Afghanistan. This is the largest medical facility in the country. This is where the war wounded are treated — mostly members of the Afghan National Army, but also members of the police. You also have family members of the Afghan National Army. What I was able to learn today for example, from a surgeon who had just left the operation room. He said as soon as he got out, he saw two people wearing the same uniform like him. So he thought maybe their doctors maybe they are taking over the next shift. And he said that they started shooting towards him injuring this doctor. Luckily for him, he managed to survive, but many more people were not lucky. One nurse, who survived the attack, told me that he had lost at least five of his colleagues.

SB: What can you tell us about the weapons that were used? What you saw? What you heard about and how the attackers staged this?

BS: The hand grenades were actually quite surprising. The number of hand grenades that these attackers were using small arms fire. For example they had a vehicle packed with explosives that was already in the car parking lot of the hospital, which is quite a secure location. Some people are already saying that it's quite possible these attackers were there well in advance. That there were some sort of inside help or infiltration. And bear in mind that this is quite a huge building — several hundred rooms and six floors.

SB: And the fact that this could go on for six hours before commandos were able to control the situation. What does this attack tell you about ISIS's tactics in Afghanistan?

BS: I think the ISIS or ties claiming this attack is quite surprising because they are saying that the fighters who carried out this attack are from a special unit called [indiscernible] who are fighters who could pose like their enemies, in this case they were posing as doctors. Now this is a tactic that Al Qaeda has also used in Iraq in early 2000 when they were launching attacks. So if it turns out that this was the work of ISIS or the Islamic State, it will be quite worrying. Because Afghanistan right now has the Taliban, who are militant, who are brutal, who are hardliners and who have a strong military might. So if you have another layer of complication, a group like ISIS, which is very much a foreign phenomenon. Then that will only add to what is an already very confusing and complicated situation in Afghanistan.

SB: And you're talking about ISIS using a tactic that deploys a special unit within ISIS? That suggests another layer of sophistication?

BS: This is what ISIS is saying. Of course, a lot of these claims are about propaganda. And from the point of view of ISIS or any other militant group this is a huge blow. You have. At least 30 to 40 soldiers killed every day across the country. You have dozens more wounded. To suddenly not have the only hospital that could treat those war wounded. I think that in itself is quite a huge loss. And now the bigger question is what sort of impact this attack has on any future recruit in a village in a district? Because he will be saying well it's not only a front line that's dangerous. It's actually more secure locations in Kabul where I'm not safe.

SB: Do you expect then that there will be a push for accountability and someone to take responsibility and lose their job over what happened here at this hospital?

BS: Over the last few years, we have not seen that happen under the national unity government. I think that's the criticism. Already today for example, one of the debates on Facebook and social media is will we see resignations? Will we see some officials suspended? Many many of these attacks have been happening because we have had serious security and intelligence failures and lapses. It is an open secret that there's corruption within the Afghan National Security Forces. So I think there is a bigger problem that has been haunting the Afghan National Security Forces.

SB: Is there going to be do you believe any impact on the push for peace negotiations with the Taliban this spring?

BS: I think 2017 will be a very painful year for the people of Afghanistan, for the government of Afghanistan and as things stand out the Taliban are not in a rush to really come to the table and talk. At least not from a position of weakness, they have an upper hand right now as we speak. The issue of ISIS I think could complicate any future peace deal that could be possible between the Taliban and the Afghan government.

SB: Bilal Sarwary, I know it's been a long day for you. Thank you for your time.

BS: Thank you. Good to talk to you.

JD: Bilal Sarwary is a freelance Afghan journalist. We reached him in Kabul.

[Music: Electronic]

Anonymous abuse allegation

JD: By now you will have no doubt heard the story of a Halifax cab driver who was charged with sexually assaulting a woman in the back of his cab and the outrage after his acquittal. Now, a woman is telling her story publicly about a complaint she filed with police in 2012. She alleges she was sexually assaulted by the same Halifax cab driver at the center of that controversial court case. Last week, we told you that Bassam Al-Rawi was acquitted of sexually assaulting an intoxicated passenger. Now a 32-year-old woman has told the CBC that Mr. Al-Rawi assaulted her in 2012. She says she was walking alone to a friend's house from a bar in downtown Halifax, when the taxi driver pulled up. He offered to take her where she was going and she got in the cab. She said the driver sexually assaulted her and that she was too intoxicated to stop him. A few days later, she filed a police report and police say they found insufficient evidence to proceed with the charge. Here is some of what she told the CBC's Angela McIvor. We have altered the woman's voice to protect her identity.

SOUNDCLIP

GUEST: Friday was actually the first I had heard of the trial. I was sickened hearing it. The police at that time, they told me they had you know they brought Bassam in for questioning around my case. I think that indicates a pretty deep problem with the processing of sexual assault cases. You know in this case there was physical evidence and there was even a police witness and the judge still can't find that no woman in her right mind wants to be sexually assaulted by a cab driver. It was shocking.

ANGELA MCIVOR: And what would you like to say to other women when it comes to the issue of consent, especially when under the influence?

GUEST: A drunk person cannot consent. No matter what decision even if careless lead to becoming drunk, the consequence of that is not sexual assault. So unfortunately, there is no equality for women in this area. And you know we have to take extra care outside of our home.

AM: What would you like to see happen?

GUEST: You know, I had to believe at the time that the police did their due diligence in my case in telling me that it wouldn't stand in court. But at the very least what I'd like to see is GPS or cameras installed in all taxicabs in Nova Scotia. To make cabs feel like a safe place of business again. You know I'd like to see more training for judges on sexual assault because the statements made by that judge were shocking.

JD: That was the altered voice of a woman who alleges she was sexually assaulted by former taxi driver Bassam Al-Rawi in 2012. Her allegations have not been tested in court. Mr. Al-Rawi was not charged in relation to this woman's complaint in 2012. Last week, he was acquitted of sexually assaulting a woman in the back seat of his cab in 2015.

[Music: Sombre instrumental]

Rempel on Sophie Gregoire Trudea

JD: At the beginning of her Facebook post yesterday, Sophie Gregoire Trudeau asked, “Are you ready to ignite change?” Well she certainly ignited something. The post goes on quote, “As we mark International Women's Day, let's celebrate the boys and men in our lives who encourage us to be who we truly are, who treat girls and women with respect, and who aren't afraid to speak up in front of others. Take a picture. Holding hands with your male ally and share it using the hashtag #tomorrowinhand.” unquote. Ms. Trudeau then attached a photograph of her hand-in-hand with the Prime Minister. But there are those who do not think that Women's Day is necessarily the best time for a celebration of men. Here is conservative MP Michelle Rempel after she was asked about the post, earlier today in Ottawa.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHELLE REMPEL: Oh my goodness, well it was a facepalm. I think the exact wording was on International Women's Day, we celebrate men and boys. The reality is that most women's rights have been fought; I'm sorry guys, In spite of men rather by them. I admit there are so many women that have fought for the right to vote, fought for equal pay for equal work, on reproductive rights and reproductive health. I mean on one day when we're talking about all of the issues and the fact that we don't have and in in many parts of the world. We're not even close to having gender equality and certainly in Canada, we've got a ways to go. To say like OK, this is about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, I think sent the wrong message. Certainly I think that men have a role in understanding that equality of women is something that's not static. It's something that we have to fight for every day. And that men have to be a partnership in that. But on International Women's Day, I mean my personal opinion is today rather than saying we're celebrating men and boys, let's talk about public policy options or other things that we need to raise awareness on to see continued gender equality. I would have much rather seen someone with such a strong and highly public profile use that platform to address issues like the fact that there's you know rampant female genital mutilation in developing parts of the world. Speaking against early and forced marriage for girls, missing and murdered Aboriginal women, you pick the issue. There's a lot of stuff to talk about. And that didn't happen in that post and I just thought you know it looked like the PMO sat around and said how can we make international women's day about a photo of Justin Trudeau? And I think that the criticism that came across party lines on that was that was evidence of the misfire that happened there.

JD: That was Conservative Member of Parliament Michelle Rempel speaking earlier today in Ottawa.

[Music: Guitar]

Caramelized onions

Guest: Tom Scocca

JD: It would be an understatement to say that Tom Scocca cares about onions, and how they are cooked. Specifically the way they are caramelised. The tech journalist started defending caramelised onions publicly when he discovered recipe websites are telling people that the process only takes ten minutes, which is an outright lie. It takes a lot longer according to Mr. Scocca and according to anyone who has actually ever tried caramelizing onions at home. This week, Mr. Scocca decided to search that same question on Google. The result horrified him. We reached Tom Scocca in New York.

SB: Tom Scocca, when you typed in that question how long does it take to caramelize onions? What did Google tell you?

TOM SCOCCA: It told me that it took about five minutes. I was horrified not just because I knew that the information was wrong, but because when I looked I realized that it was taking the information from something I had written.

SB: Oh.

TS: Which said exactly the opposite.

SB: Explain please?

TS: So, I had I had written a post for Slate five years ago about the fact that recipes misled people about how long it would take to caramelise onions. I'd written that piece and it had actually done a pretty good job of getting the message across that their recipes lie about this fact. What I discovered was that Google has found that piece and rather than correctly extracting the debunking information, it had taken the claim was being debunked mistaking it for the message of the piece and presented that to anyone who searched it as the one true answer in their new system of bringing the most correct answer to any question to the surface.

SB: Wow! That's a head spinner. But my question is why were you Googling this in the first place when you already knew the answer?

TS: I'd been reading the stories about the problems that Google was having with its with its snippets and the way that they kept finding bad information and bring it to the top as if it were the very best information. And I knew that this question of how long you’re supposed to cook the onions was a thing where there had been a lot of bad information out there. So I was curious about whether they had successfully avoided all the bad information and found better information.

SB: Yes, we actually covered that that exact story on As It Happens earlier this week. We used the example when someone asked Is Obama planning a coup? The Google response was yes and he's in bed with the Chinese communists. Were you expecting Google to get this onion question right?

TS: I was hoping it would get it right. And it was sort of appalling to see the way in which he got it wrong. Because the other things that the snippets have been getting wrong have tended to be things where somebody very passionately wants to put forward the wrong information, so on the question of whether Obama is planning a coup. The people who do think Obama is planning a coup have a much stronger and more focused Internet presence on expressing that point than the vast majority of people who aren't thinking about the question because they know that it's not the case. There are some people who are putting out bad information and amplifying the bad information in a way that Google picks it up. In this case, it was where I had written something that was specifically designed to knock down that information and Google was instead extracting the bad information as if that were good. So there wasn't even any intention to confuse people. Google managed to make it a confusing result.

SB: Well, that brings me to the question of why do you think all of these Cooking websites — all of these recipes — are telling people that onions could be caramelised in 10 minutes?

TS: I think they are kidding themselves and trying their readers. Usually caramelised onions are just one part of the recipe. You know there are minor constituent in whatever you're doing. The fact that making this minor constituent is going to take you 45 minutes or an hour turns recipes that are otherwise very simple and quick into very time consuming ones. I think that people just developed a habit of pretending that they weren't asking people to invest all this time.

SB: Well, I know we're only talking about cooking onions here. But isn't that still an intention to mislead?

TS: It is. I mean that was what made me mad about in the first place. It's just not true and it has real consequences.

SB: It sure does, you ruin a lot of onions.

TS: And people who talked to me after I published my initial thing about this question let me know that they had blamed themselves. They thought they were bad cooks. They believed that there was something about working in the kitchen that they just couldn't understand. Here were recipes telling them that they should have a pan full of sweet brown onions and they had a pan full of white onions because 10 minutes had gone by and 10 minutes wasn't anywhere near enough to get the job done. You know I mean if a recipe tells you that something's supposed to happen and you don't know a lot about cooking, you're going to assume that you've made some kind of mistake.

SB: Have you told Google about this? And what did Google say?

TS: I didn't tell them, but the publication of the post about it brought it to their attention. And at some point between then and now, they revised what the algorithm retrieves. Whether they went in manually into that or what I'm not sure, but it now pulls up a passage from the same piece that describes the correct cooking time.

SB: Well, we can at least help the people who are listening to this program by getting you to tell us the master recipe for caramelizing onions.

TS: The perfect time is to do it the night before you really want them. You can cook them in under 45 minutes if you're doing them really hot and you're stirring them constantly. But you should give yourself 45 minutes to an hour to actually get it done.

SB: What do you say to people who say that this is a this is a lot of fuss about a humble vegetable — an onion? Why do you care so much?

TS: I haven't really heard that complaint actually. You'd be surprised how many people do care about a humble vegetable and being able to cook it correctly. And people care about being told the truth. And even on something as small a domestic as that was how to caramelise onions. It matters to people.

SB: Well, thank you for protecting the truth about onions for us.

TS: Glad to do it.

SB: Nice to talk to you Tom.

TS: Nice talking to you.

JD: Tom Scocca is the deputy editor at Gizmodo's media special projects desk. We reached him in New York City. And for more on the right and the wrong ways to cook your onions, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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Part 3: Paul Seesequasis, Garland beatings

Rhode Island State House drinking

JD: To those of us on the outside, the hallowed halls of government can seem to brim with bottled-up secrets. Especially when there's a leak. And a leak was what one Rhode Island lawmaker seemed to be issuing when she spoke on radio yesterday. Moira Walsh is a newly-elected state representative in Rhode Island and when asked by WPRO host Matt Allen what she felt was quote, “the most impressive and appalling thing about the way the government works,” unquote. It all came pouring out.

SOUNDCLIP

MOIRA WALSH: I am probably going to get in a lot of trouble for saying this, but the drinking!

MATT ALLEN: Really?

MW: It blows my… you cannot operate a motor vehicle when you've had two beers, but you can make laws that affect people's lives forever when you're half in the bag?

MA: You say there's a lot of drinking that goes on?

MW: There's a lot of drinking that goes on in the State House. There's an insane amount of drinking.

MA: During session?

MW: I plead the Fifth. I don't know.

MA: Wait a second now.

MW: I don't know. I know nothing.

MA: Drinking during the session?

MW: Like they put shots on our desk for like the Dominican Republic Day and we all just like did shots on the floor and like nobody.

MA: Well, that's one shot right?

MW: Yeah, but people have like file cabinets full of booze. Like there's a lot. And I'm not a drinker, so it doesn't bode well for me.

MA: So you're shocked by the amount of drinking that goes on at the State House?

MW: Yes, yes.

MA: [Sound: Loud laughing]

MW: And this is something that my constituents and I have had like a couple of discussions about. Is like the amount of like I feel bad saying this, but nonsense. You know like the first three weeks is just like and happy birthday to Nana and Jimmy's dog died. It feels like a lot of nothing. And like I'm lucky because I live two miles away, so I'm driving all of four minutes, but like there's Teresa Tansey driving 40 minutes to come in here and applaud for the State House dog and then drive home? That sucks.

MA: Well, at least you get a couple of drinks in between.

MW: Yes, that's the benefit. That's why we show up. It's all the booze in the filing cabinets. Oh, that will give you plenty of ammo for when I leave: drunken legislator Moria Walsh.

MA: Not you?

MW: Oh God no.

MA: Who drinks more? The Senate of the House?

MW: That's a very hard question collectively our blood is probably 90 proof at this point.

MA: Do you think we should have the state police outside the General Assembly?

MW: Oh my God, could you imagine doing a checkpoint on the way out of the parking lot? It’s like you’ve been at the State. How did you even get this hammered?

MA: Oh my. Well yeah you did just give me something.

MW: I'm sorry. Now we're going to ruin it. Now we're going to ruin it for them. I'm going to be the person that ruined drinking in the State House. They’re going to love me forever.

JD: That was Rhode Island State Representative Moira Walsh speaking to Matt Allen yesterday on WPRO about drinking at the State House. Now, Representative Walsh later walked back her description of file cabinets full of booze saying that she has not witnessed any liquor cabinets and was just making a sarcastic joke.

[Music: Blues]

Paul Seesequasis

Guest: Paul Seesequasis

JD: Few Twitter feeds can transport you to another place and another time like the Twitter feed of Paul Seesequasis. Images of First Nations men of a man playing the fiddle at a dance, a woman doing beadwork, a beaming little girl — her arms slightly blurred because she couldn't stay still next to a snow woman her father had built. For two years, the Saskatchewan Cree writer and journalist has been curating archival images of ordinary Indigenous life. But now, Penguin Random House has noticed. He recently signed a deal to turn those photographs and the stories behind them into a book.We reached Paul Seesequasis in Saskatoon.

SB: Mr. Seesequasis, what gave you this idea to start posting these archival images of Indigenous life on your Twitter?

PAUL SEESEQUASIS: It began two years ago, when my mother, who’s a residential school survivor, had mentioned that was during the time of the Murdered Missing women's Inquiry and Truth and Reconciliation was wrapping up. That we don't hear enough positive stories about Indigenous life and during that time and we're talking about anywhere from the ‘40s up to the ‘70s. And what her generation and the generations before had done to keep languages and culture alive during that period, so that is what inspired me to begin looking into old photographs. And from there just started to receive a very positive response.

SB: So were you looking for just images that depicted positive scenes of Indigenous life?

PS: I was looking for images that captured the resilience and the integrity of communities across Canada during that time. So that essence yes positive, but I was also looking for photos that captured the sense of personality of people as well as people going about their day to day lives as opposed to posed photographs that were more unnatural.

SB: Can you describe some of these for us? Are there a couple that really stand out for you as meeting the objectives?

PS: I think there are numerous ones that do. One would be by Richard Harrington, who is up in what is now in the Nunavut in the late ‘40s and early ‘50s. And he took one called “Foot Race”, which is really Inuit women doing a foot race. it just a marvelous photo because they're dressed you know just as they were dressed at that time. But it captures humor and joy and I think that one stands out as does a photo by Rosemary Eden of a boy in Saskatchewan. And he is dressed in a very beautiful beaded jacket and he has a lead dog beside him. The dog is sort of snuggling against his leg and there's something very warm in that photo. To me it’s just photos like that; they just speak to something in our heart and captures the integrity of the subject.

SB: Where do you find these images?

PS: I look all over. Now that I'm in my second year doing this, hopefully I'm getting a bit better at it. But generally they are in national archives as well as provincial archives, local libraries, historical societies and then as it's gone on, I've been in touch with several of the photographers who are still living and had access to their own personal collections.

SB: I imagine as people began to be aware of what you were doing they wanted to send you images. Is that right?

PS: Yes, I’ve also had people sending me family images from their own collection so that also brought a reciprocal kind of exchange happening on social media, which has been wonderful. And one of the other great things, Susan is that a lot of people have not seen these photos before even though they are in archives. So a lot of people have been able to name relatives or also provides stories that go along with them.

SB: Yeah, tell me about some of the responses you're getting?

PS: I'm getting responses from people saying you know that's my late father, that's my auntie, that's my uncle. Or Oh my God, that's me and I was 16 and with my dog and I've never seen this photo. So it's just you know people are you know finding a moment in time from the past which resonates with them. And I think in some ways is the process of the reclamation of people being able to reclaim their families, how their ancestors lived with the land as well of culture and tradition. So in that way it is a continuity. They’re not just sort of the past, but now I think having a second life in terms of how they resonate with people.

SB: What have you personally learned about Indigenous identity through curating these photos?

PS: The first thing I learned I think it's respect for the hardships that people went through you know over the past 50 years. Particularly in instances where there's near starvation, residential schools and all that process that attempted to shatter the sense of community within different regions. But the same time, how despite that people were able to hold it together and without their resilience and without their determination, our languages would not be here and the culture would not be here in the way it is now. I think we're seeing now a new generation coming up that is really working for the benefit of what the previous generations were able to do. And then there’s the humor and the tall stories that come out of you come out with the photos as well. And that's also part of our oral history and a very rewarding thing to be a small part of.

SB: Tell me one of those humorous stories. I understand there's one about a boy and a cigarette?

PS: Oh yeah, there's one where they take a partridge. And Rosemary Eden, who is one of the pioneering photojournalists, happened to be there and was taking photos. And just happened to be there that day he had his first cigarette. I think he was probably having it as he said to show off to her because he was 16 at the time and you can sort of see that he's kind of playing with a camera a bit and feeling quite proud of himself. Fifty years later he's laughing about that.

SB: So I've got to ask you what your mom thinks of all this?

PS: Oh, I think she thinks it keeps me out of trouble. Maybe she thinks I spend too much time on the computer, I'm not sure. But you’ll know when the book comes out how she feels about it.

SB: Yes, your book is coming out. It's going to be called “Blanket Toss Under Midnight Sun”. Tell me about that title?

PS: The title is based on an Inuit blanket toss. One of the photos that resonates because there is the sun and then there's this woman up in the air after the toss and she's in mid-air and you can see the sun just shining through her. And it just radiates with almost awe inspiring beauty. So that became the working title for the book. In some ways I think it is a perfect vehicle because while these photos to be digitized, there's nothing permanent in the beauty of having them on paper in a book in full color. And something that can be kept by families it gives I think a permanence to them that is beyond whatever Twitter or Facebook becomes. So I'm excited by that and by the responsibility of being able to do it.

SB: Well, good luck with the project and it's been lovely looking at those images.

PS: Well, I appreciate that and thank you so much.

SB: Bye bye.

PS: Bye bye.

JD: We reached writer and journalist Paul Seesequasis in Saskatoon. Mr. Seesequasis has recently signed a deal to turn the archival images of Indigenous life on his Twitter feed into a book. And if you would like to see some of those tweets, and they are terrific photographs, you can find some on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Ambient]

Daughters of the Vote

JD: Earlier in the show, we heard an emotional speech by Srosh Hassan, a University of Alberta student who took the place of her MP in the House of Commons today. And she spoke out about Islamophobia and Ms. Hassan was just one of 338 young women who took part in the “Daughters of the Vote” program, which was created by Equal Voice to celebrate International Women's Day. So here is just a sample of what was on the minds of those young women from across this country as they voice their opinions in Ottawa today.

SOUNDCLIP

SPEAKER: Rape culture is not a new phenomenon. Yet many institutions do not have intersectional sexualized violence policies, trained staff or a designated person to report to. We need to reform a legal system that consistently de-legitimizing and dismisses survivors stories and only convicts 2 per cent of assailants. To all survivors here today, I want you to know that I support you. I stand with you, but most importantly that I believe you. Thank you.

[Sound: Clapping and cheering.]

SPEAKER 2: I mean today I stand on the traditional unseated territories of the Algonquin peoples. Just like another young girl did almost a decade before me to ask the government to equitably fund Indigenous education now.

[Sound: Cheering]

SPEAKER 3: As a Conservative and as a feminist, I'm considered an anomaly. It is imperative that Conservative parties break the stereotype as an old boys club. As Conservatives we must demonstrate open hearts and tenacity on women's issues.

[Sound: Cheering]

SPEAKER 4: Party list proportional representation systems in particular incentivize Parties to run more diverse lists of candidates and therefore the most successful at getting women's names on the ballot.

[Sound: Cheering]

SPEAKER 5: Last semester I studied the case [Indiscernible] versus Canada which asked the government for policies to ensure that Canadians have the right to adequate and affordable housing. This case resonated with me because when I was young, my family faced a precarious living situation resulting in my mother and I living in a women's shelter. I believe that this outcome of the case is endemic of a larger systemic issue in Canadian politics. We don't talk about the P word: poverty. Or the H-word: homelessness. Every federal election cycle, policy debates are directed primarily to the middle class with little to no mention of policies…

[Sound: Very loud cheering]

JD: Those were the voices of just some of the young woman who spoke in the House of Commons today as part of International Women's Day.

[Music: Cultural]

Wife and husband coffins

JD: Getting a deal always feels great doesn't it? It's always nice to find a way to avoid paying full price on an expensive purchase. But for Ron Christie instead of haggling with a sales person about to two big ticket items, he's thinking outside the box. He's thinking outside the box about boxes. The Big River, New Brunswick man is going above and beyond to save on going six feet under. He has been hard at work building a coffin for himself and one for his wife, Irene. Earlier today Ron Christie spoke with Norma Lee MacCleod, host of “Maritime Noon”. Here's part of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

RON CHRISTIE: All it is just pine board with some cloth. You know just simply made.

NORMA LEE MACLEOD: So you figure you could do this?

RC: Yeah. You know they're so expensive and we don't have any children or anything like that. So I went to a funeral home and asked them is this is all right? That we can build caskets? He says yes, no problem.

NLM: And so you did?

RC: Yes.

NLM: You went in and got all the materials, did you tell them what you were doing?

RC: Yeah, I said I’m buying some pine board and I’m going to build my own casket. And they started laughing.

NLM: I suppose they don't get people building caskets every day?

RC: Right. I told them that. I’m going to build my own casket and I’m going to build one for my wife too. I kept going back and buying more lumber. I thought it would be about $200, but they’re about $400 apiece.

NLM: Which is quite a deal compared to buying one —they can be thousands.

RC: Yeah.

NLM: How did it turn out the first one?

RC: I got a laugh. What I did is I cut six feet on the top instead of on the bottom. So I said I better get in and see if it will fit me.

NLM: You climbed in?

RC: I climbed in and had to bend my knees. I started laughing. I said Irene, this one is going to have to be yours and she started laughing.

NLM You built a six foot casket, how tall are you?

RC: Five-nine.

NLM: But it's longer on the top than the bottom?

RC: Yeah, six feet on the top instead of on the bottom.

NLM: That's good then so you had one for Irene.

RC: Yeah. So I got that one done. I put the birds and all that. She likes chickadees and blue jays. She loves nature.

NLM: So they're customized?

RC: They’re customized. It’s personal you know? Like I wanted something different.

NLM: So they're just sitting in your shed, awaiting the right moment?

RC: right now I've got one in my workshop. I just got to do the interior. And the one in the old kitchen, we have a farm house, so we have an old kitchen on the side.

NLM: The coffin is in the kitchen?

RC: Yeah, the old kitchen.

NLM: All right. Well you're prepared.

RC: I’m prepared, I’m not scared. Like I said, we're all going to go there someday.

JD: And until then it can be a coffee table, Ron Christie in conversation with Norma Lee MacCleod, host of CBC Radio's “Maritime Noon”. That was earlier today. The Big River, New Brunswick man is building coffins for himself and his wife, Irene.

[Music: Ambient]

UN human rights Trump

JD: Earlier today, The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid bin Ra’ad Al Hussein directed some pointed words at U.S. President Donald Trump and his first few months in office. Mr. Al Hussein was delivering his annual speech to the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva and here's part of what he said, for the record.

SOUNDCLIP

ZEID BIN RA’AD AL HUSSEIN: in the United States of America, I am concerned by the new administration's handling of a number of human rights issues. Greater and more consistent leadership is needed to address the recent surge in discrimination, anti-Semitism and violence against ethnic and religious minorities. Vilification of entire groups such as Mexicans and Muslims and false claims that migrants commit more crimes than U.S. citizens are harmful and fuel xenophobic abuses. I am dismayed at the attempts by the President to intimidate or undermine journalists and judges.

JD: For the record that was the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid bin Ra’ad Al Hussein speaking earlier today at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva.

[Music: Jazz]

Garland beatings

Guest: Kim Ross

JD: It has happened twice in three weeks. On February 17^th, Douglas Garland was given a life sentence for the murder of a five-year-old boy and his grandparents. Hours later, four inmates at a prison in Calgary attacked him. And then this past Monday, Mr. Garland was badly beaten by inmates just hours after being transferred into an Edmonton prison. In both cases Mr. Garland was hospitalized. Kim Ross is Douglas Garland's lawyer. We reached Mr. Ross in Calgary.

SB: Mr. Ross what condition is your client, Douglas Garland in right now?

KIM ROSS: I'm not sure at this point in time. The last time I spoke with the institution, he was still in the hospital and had been taken there on the day of the assault. And they were running some tests, but I'm not sure whether he's back yet or not?

SB: Your client was transferred to Edmonton a couple of days ago. What is your understanding of what happened when he arrived at the prison?

KR: What I understand is that when he arrived he was assessed as to where his placement was best suited for. And he was placed on a unit that the institution advised was what they thought would be a proper placement for him.

SB: What kinds of considerations do they make when they're deciding what is a proper placement? I mean clearly they were aware that he had been attacked in the prison in Calgary, so would they have taken precautions?

KR: Well, my understanding is they did and again in speaking to the institution, they advised me that they were aware of what had happened here at the remand Centre. Obviously they were aware of the nature of his charges. So my understanding is that they had taken proper precautions that he'd been put on a unit that he was compatible with all the other inmates.

SB: Well, what are your thoughts about the way he's being treated? Do you believe he's being targeted?

KR: Well, I think he's got a target on his back just because of the nature of the charges. You know what he was convicted of. And that's kind of wherever you go is whether he's in the remand centre or one of the institutions. But having said that, it would be really irresponsible of me right now to say a whole lot because I don't know what happened. I don't know if this was a targeted attack. I don't know if it involved one or two inmates. The last when I spoke with the institution. They were still investigating.

SB: What more do you think prison officials might have done to prevent an attack like this?

KR: Well, I think considering the nature of his background, especially when he first arrived at the institution I would have thought they would have had a better monitoring of him to ensure that something like this didn't happen.

SB: Have you spoken with him since the first attack in Calgary? What did he tell you then?

KR: I've definitely talked to him since the incident at the remand centre. Obviously, he's concerned for his safety.

SB: I understand that you're being careful because you don't know exactly what happened, but I'm trying to understand you know what's in your purview? What you can ask for? How you proceed in in a case like this where you understand that your client is a potential target. And now we've seen him be targeted twice?

KR: That's what I'm trying to be careful of because I don't know if he was targeted twice. That's what I’m saying. I don't know the circumstances of what's happened in Edmonton. It is hard for Doug to help himself. His safety is solely in the hands of Corrections Canada. And I've made that clear to them that we demand of them that they follow their mandate.

SB: Mr. Ross, you know that there will be people who will be listening to our conversation and thinking this is a man who committed a heinous crime — a triple murder. A little five-year-old boy and his grandparents. He should have thought of how difficult prison life would be before he committed the murder what would you say to them?

KR: Well I say that Doug's status in the institution the same as any other prisoner in that institution. I don't care whether what he's been charged with or where he's been convicted of. He's under the protection of Corrections Canada and it's in their mandate to make sure he's protected just like any other inmate in that institution.

SB: How worried are you about him at this point?

KR: Well I'm concerned for his safety right now, obviously, this having happened twice. I'm not very happy about that. But again, until I find out exactly what has occurred up in Edmonton. I mean it can be a different situation if this is the case as you say where he was quote, “targeted”. And so this was an attack that was allowed to happen. Obviously I’m going to be very concerned for his safety. There's going to be legal recourse, but at the end of the day, if this is an in a situation where it was an altercation between two inmates over you know something like who was going to bunk in what bunk beds or something like that then obviously that would be a different position.

SB: Well, thank you for telling us what you know so far for us Mr. Ross.

KR: You're welcome.

SB: Goodbye.

JD: Kim Ross is the lawyer for Douglas Garland. We reached him in Calgary. Earlier this week, Douglas Garland was assaulted by inmates for a second time in three weeks. In February, he was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of a five-year-old boy and his grandparents.

[Music: Ambient]

Web M.D.

JD: If you are a hypochondriac, Web MD has probably helped you diagnose yourself. If you are not a hypochondriac, you will be after visiting Web MD The medical site is renowned for providing an expert opinion to anyone with any symptoms. That expert opinion is usually that you are going to die, now. And along with prescribing unhealthy doses of fear it is also being accused of being a mouthpiece for big pharma. Still until recently, you had to go to your laptop and type in the Web MD you are l in order to self-diagnose. So you had time to think better of it. Now though, thanks to a deal between Web MD and Amazon's Alexa, one of those voice controlled personal assistant things, you will be able to have an exchange like this without lifting your aching head off the kitchen counter.

JD: Alexa, ask Web MD what it means when I feel totally gross?

ALEXA: Whatever it is, it's definitely fatal.

JD: Or let's say you ask Alexa to ask Web MD about the heartburn you have after eating nine jalapenos.

ALEXA: It's probably a terminal disease. Goodbye forever.

JD: Yeah. See? You see how efficient that is? We're going to save so much time that we can write up proper wills instead of just scrawling you can have my air miles on a napkin. Now obviously, this new partnership with Alexa may not really be helpful. What we really need is for our high tech personal assistants to be automated voices of reason like this.

JD: Alexa, my tongue feels weird.

ALEXA: Hey Einstein, how about going to an actual doctor?

JD: Or Alexa, did a spider eggs in my skull and the eggs have hatched in my cranium as full of baby spiders?

ALEXA: It's a headache. Shut up.

JD: Then when it comes to determining whether you're a little off or shuffling off this mortal coil. Some believe it's best to hear the worst immediately. And some believe online medicine is bad medicine. I'm leaning toward that second opinion.

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March 8, 2017 episode transcript

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