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The AIH Transcript for February 6, 2017

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

HM: Heartbreak Hotel. 18-year-old Alex Gervais died by suicide at a B.C. hotel, after years of being shuffled around the provinces child welfare system. And a new report details how that system failed him.

JD: Back at death's door. For the second time in two years, a Russian opposition activist is in hospital after suffering multiple organ failure. His wife believes he was poisoned both times.

HM: Getting in through a narrow window. When a federal judge in the U.S. offers a temporary reprieve from the travel ban, Sara Yarjani is able to return to the country where she lives and studies just a week after she was turned away.

JD: Might seem like too big for their breeches. But humpback whales have a good reason for launching their enormous bulks out of the water and into the air. And it's all about making a splash.

HM: Unmasking tapes. When they were found in a London basement, they were so damaged it looked like they'd go unheard. But an unheard of effort has restored those last live recordings of Bob Marley.

JD: And train of thoughtfulness. In New York City, strangers board a subway car that has been defaced with swastikas. And spontaneously they band together to erase every last one. As It Happens the Monday edition, radio that knows sometimes a symbolic gesture is an anti-symbolic gesture.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: BC teen report, US travel ban: visa holder, subway swastikas

BC teen report

Guest: Bernard Richard

JD: The system failed him and it failed him over and over again. Alex Gervais died in 2015, after he jumped out of a window at a Super 8 hotel in British Columbia. He was 18-years-old. He was in government care. The Metis teenager had been living in the hotel for over a month. His paid caregiver had not checked in on him in days. It is the tragic ending to a long, tragic story that is outlined today in a new report called “Broken Promises: Alex's Story.” It was issued by Bernard Richard, B.C.’s acting representative for children and youth. We reached Mr. Richard in Victoria.

HM: Mr. Richard, how was Alex Gervais let down in his final days while he was living at this hotel?

BERNARD RICHARD: Well, the final days would have been pretty awful. To end his life the way he did, I think tells us a great deal about a state of desperation, despair. He was in the care system and had a caregiver assigned to him. At fairly significant cost, but the caregiver hadn't been seen at the hotel for 10 days before his death.

HM: And this caregiver, you say significant cost. I'm seeing it was about eight thousand dollars a month?

BR: Plus a hotel room for him as well.

HM: Children and Youth in care are not supposed to live in hotels. So how did he end up in that situation?

BR: Well, the agency that was supposed to be looking after him had significant issues. It was eventually it was closed down. So a contract was given directly to an individual caregiver. The agency the Aboriginal agency or the delegated Aboriginal agency that delivers service for the ministry here, was having difficulty finding an appropriate placement for him. They ended up putting him up in a hotel; he stayed there for 49 days. Which is huge a length of time it's been something we raised immediately with the ministry here and actually worked with the ministry to change that. It's still happens, but it happens much less frequently and for much shorter periods of time. But you're right I mean it's not an appropriate placement for any child or youth in care, but at least as great an issue is that for Alex and I fear other youth in care in British Columbia. He was a challenging youth he had some significant issues obviously having spent 11 years in care bounced around between 17 different placements in those 11 years being looked after by 23 different social workers and caregivers. He had significant issues, but he was being looked after by people with very questionable qualifications. So the so the end result is the most needy, most vulnerable youth are being cared for by people with very in some cases, like most certainly not all cases, but in some cases by people with very very questionable qualifications. Final caregiver actually his experience was as a truck driver and bouncer in a bar.

HM: There were two members of Alex Gervais extended family who offered to take him in. Why didn't that happen?

BR: It's more complicated to keep kids with extended family. They require more work, more support. It's easier for the ministry to place a child into a recognized foster home even if it costs thousands of dollars more. In Alex's case his step mom was quite interested in caring for him and he was attached to her, he was quite interested. But she asked for respite support and other support, which the ministry rejected. So they were concerned with paying a few hundred dollars more to her for a connection that was dear to Alex, but rather paid thousands of dollars more for care in a foster home and then many thousands of dollars more for him to be in a hotel room.

HM: Were there are indications that Mr. Gervais's was suicidal; things that should have been noted?

BR: Yes there were. And he certainly… his texts a few days earlier to someone who had been a previous caregiver to him should have raised some red flags. He was consuming cocaine drugs at an increasing rate. Other people had noticed he had expressed stress over aging out of care, so there were signals. He had been actually during the 11 years he was in care; he was referred to mental health services five times. But never actually accessed any mental health services and this is a young man who suffered trauma early on. His parents had significant mental health issues. He was sexually assaulted by a previous caregiver after being supplied with cocaine when he was a young teenager. He was dealing with significant issues. Mental health services should have been provided to him, often the excuse was well he had changed foster homes might have moved to a different neighborhood or area. Well you know the ministry's ineptitude in providing a stable and permanent care for him should not be an excuse for not providing the mental health services he needed.

HM: The B.C. Ministry of Children and Family Development does say it accepts all your recommendations. What have you asked them to do to prevent something like this from happening to other youth in their care?

BR: Well, the first thing is respect their own laws and policies and standards. The law already requires the ministry to make every effort to find permanency for kids in care and to find family placements when that is at all possible. Certainly they missed the mark on that front. They say they're going to add resources in there in order to be able to do that. The legislation already provides that any child or youth with Indigenous heritage that these children are entitled to be connected to their culture. And that's already provided for in the legislation that they say they're adding some money to insure that care plans are available for every child and youth in care. So I think that the commitment this morning was for 2.7 million dollars. I was really pleased to read that there. They're saying as well that they will improve access to mental health services, reduce wait times and finally they say they will conduct their own review of contracted residential services. But I've met with the auditor general for British Columbia and she’s already indicated that she's going to be doing the same thing with an independent eye. So I'm pleased with the response. I couldn't could we couldn't have asked for much more. I've indicated to the ministry and briefed the minister last week in Vancouver. I've asked for clear commitments and timelines and I will be monitoring their promises. There have been enough broken promises in Alex's case. We need to make sure that these new promises are kept.

HM: Mr. Richard, thank you so much for going over all of this these findings with us. We appreciate it.

BR: Thanks for your interest.

HM: OK. Bye bye.

BR: Bye now.

JD: Bernard Richard, British Columbia's acting representative for children and youth. We reached him in Victoria.

[Music: On the Table/ Rap]

Travel ban: visa holder

Guest: Sara Yarjani

JD: It has been a very long 10 days for Sara Yarjani, the Iranian graduate student was a mid-air on route to the U.S. when President Donald Trump signed an executive order blocking entry to people of her nationality. Ms. Yarjani has a valid student visa, but when she landed in Los Angeles, she was detained and then turned back to Austria, where she'd been visiting family. And then this weekend, a federal judge lifted the so-called travel ban temporarily at least. And Ms. Yarjani hopped on a plane once again. And we reached Sara Yarjani in Encinitas, California.

HM: Sara Yarjani, what were you thinking as your plane landed at LAX yesterday.?

SARA YARJANI: I still did not know what was going to happen because when I arrived last week, the executive order had been signed while I was on the flight. So this time I had no idea what had happened while I had been on the flight. So I really wasn't sure what was going to happen when I landed.

HM: You feared things could change that quickly?

SY: Because last time they had. Last time when I boarded in Norway, they had done passport control and everything. And 10 hours later when I landed here I was detained. So I was still very concerned and uncertain about what was going to happen when I landed yesterday because it could have gone in different ways I wasn't sure.

HM: So what's it like now to be back in the United States?

SY: I'm very grateful to be here. I'm very grateful that I can continue with my education. I never imagined that getting back to school after I went for a holiday could be such an ordeal. And such a difficult, traumatizing experience because it really was very hard last week. And it's been quite uncertain and strange since.

HM: Can you then take us through what happened to you last week as you arrived at LAX at that time. And that was just in the hours after President Trump had signed this executive order?

SY: So last week, when I arrived on Friday evening at the regular passport control. I was told that I needed to be taken to secondary and I was after waiting there in a separate section. I was interviewed briefly and then taken to a different area again to another area where I was told to take off my shoelaces, scarf, jewelry and put away all of those and my phone as well. And all of those were removed from me and I was taken to a room where I was told to put my hand on the wall, spread your legs, body search. Then waiting in a small detention room with some other people and it was all very quick quick orders “do this” and “do that.” So it was quite harsh and scary because there was no explanation of what was going on and why. And then I was taken to a room where I was interviewed by an officer and told that I'm not admissible to the U.S. and that my visa is no longer valid and that I have two options. Either I agree to sign documents saying I leave voluntarily or I will be forcibly removed and I would — if that was my choice — I would be facing a penalty of being banned for one to five years of re-entry.

HM: Which option did you take?

SY: After that he said will you comply? And I said I would. And so I after that, I was there for all together I was there for 23 hours before they put me back on a flight out.

HM: So you get put on this plane where did they send you?

SY: That flight to Copenhagen and then from Copenhagen to Oslo. I had to stay overnight in Oslo because the next flight to Vienna was the next day.

HM: How long were you in Vienna before you heard again that you might have a chance to go back to the U.S.?

SY: So it was just Friday night, when the new ruling I was in Vienna the whole week and I was uncertain I trying to figure everything out. On Friday night when the Seattle ruling had passed and I started getting messages from friends in the U.S. telling me this just happened. Does that apply to you? Can you come back? At which point I contacted the lawyers at ACLU, who had been working with me and helping me in this time and they acted very quickly, found out more information and told me to get on the next flight. And that's how I was supposed to come in because we figured that this was a window in which there was a possibility for me to get back in.

HM: Right so you rushed to get back. At that point your student visa is ok again is that right?

SY: It still says revoked and all of that. I have to sign a waiver document as I arrived yesterday. So, I'm allowed in. I don't know what else will happen. As far as I understand, it should be valid for the same amount of time that it was valid for previously.

HM: But were you fearful that that might not happen as you were arriving again? That you might once again be turned back?

SY: I was very scared and fearful when I came out of the plane and there was officers who took my passport. They told me that it was going to be OK. And they walked me through luggage and passport control and brought me out and there was some waiting in between. And I honestly did not know which way it would go for that one hour until I came out.

HM: Yesterday, President Trump tweeted quote, “Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system people pouring in bad.” What do you say to that?

SY: I don't know if I have a response to that. I just I personally feel grateful to everyone who allowed me to be back here to continue this education is what I'm saying is holistic health, which has to do with helping people with healing. So ultimately what I'm studying is that serving people and that's what I feel that I want to do with my life. That's why this study matters to me and that's why I cared about coming back to the US and finishing this study.

HM: This must have been an incredibly exhausting week?

SY: It really is. I am still so shaky and tired. I mean the night when I found out, I was up all night trying to figure out if the ruling would make a difference between me arriving. And it's been very exhausting for me and the whole family. But the Lawyers at the ACLU, who had been working with me, I don't think they had a good night’s sleep this whole time as well because they were so supportive. So it's been a quite uncertain and difficult week.

HM: Well then I especially appreciate you taking time to talk to us. Thank you very much.

SY Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

HM: All right. The best to you. Good bye.

SY: Bye.

JD: We reached Sara Yarjani in Encinitas, California.

[Music: Orchestral]

Subway swastika

Guest: Jared Nied

JD: “Nazi symbolism on a public train in New York City in 2017.” That was what Gregory Locke wrote in a Facebook post, which has since gone viral. And he was referring to anti-Semitic graffiti drawn in black marker on a New York City subway train on Saturday night. Jared Nied was on that same train, on his way home from work, when he saw the graffiti and instead of turning a blind eye he acted. We reached Jared Nied in New York.

HM: Mr. Nied, describe for us what you saw on the subway on Saturday evening.

JARED NIED: Well, I sat down and looked up at the map directly across from me and it had some really vicious anti-Semitic graffiti on it. And I sort of glanced around and noticed the entire train was I mean it was completely covered. There were swastikas on all the windows. Horrible slurs on the maps, on the ads, on the posters, just everywhere and everyone on the train was clearly uncomfortable.

HM: And you say others were uncomfortable. How did they indicate that?

JN: Everyone was sort of glancing at each other and very tense and just clearly not happy to be on the subway car that at that moment.

HM: What did you then decide to do?

JN: Well, the woman sitting across the aisle from me directly under the map I think she had been trying to erase that already because we sort of made eye contact and she said Isn't it awful? I mean if you think there's some way you could erase it? And she offered me the tissue so you know I have a tissue here. You know I stood up and took the tissue and said you know it's a sharpie it's a permanent marker I'm not sure. Just a tissue is going to take it off you know like if it were a dry erase marker. And as I said dry erase marker it sort of clicked. So that's when I realized that hey you know hand sanitizer has alcohol in it which will work should work fantastically. So I said I anyone a bottle of hand sanitizer? Probably 15 bottles popped up and you know was like yes here. So I just I just took the closest one. And the graffiti came right off and as soon as the other people in the car saw that, three or four of them jumped up and started collecting tissues and hand sanitizer and we just cleaned off every inch of that horrible horrible graffiti.

HM: How long did it take you to get all that down?

JN: Less than five minutes. It was amazing like the way we all teamed up. So once we all came together and got into motion it took no time.

HM: What were people saying as this was going on?

JN: You know nobody was really saying much of anything other than I have some tissues. You know here's some more here's some more hand sanitizer. Oh there's a swastika on that window. Even after we finished, we all just went back to our seats and sat down and sort of looked each other and gave collective contented little sigh. But that was it. There was no real no real further speaking or interaction we just came together for that one amazing moment and then just went on with our day.

HM: Yeah it's not the atmosphere most people think of when they think of riding on the New York subway I expect?

JN: No, no. I've lived here for seven or eight years now. And when we do need to come together do something it's like nowhere else I've ever been; like we do have each other's backs as it were.

HM: There's a post of course from one of the other riders and no doubt seen Gregory Locke on Facebook it's been shared really widely. Some people say there's a bit of a backlash suggesting that it's unfair to link this to Donald Trump's presidency and some of the actions he's been taking. What do you say to that?

JN: I see both sides of that argument, especially with regards anti-Semitism. Donald Trump is a fairly pro-Israel president. But at the same time just in a more general sense the hateful rhetoric that he ran on and a lot of his supporters most definitely would be I think emboldened to carry out actions like this. And I'm sure you've seen there's a there was another Andrew Cuomo tweeted another swastika on a subway car. There were several incidents across the country over the weekend. It's just it has gotten much more much more visible and bold. And I do think there's a link there. It's not the sole cause, but it's certainly not helping.

HM: What's the message that you would like people to take from the actions that you and your fellow transit riders took?

JN: If we all come together. You know we can overcome anything. We completely erased an entire subway car’s full of hatred with a few tissues and some rubbing alcohol basically.

HM: Maybe more people are going to start carrying around bottles of hand sanitizer just in case.

JN: Yeah I hope so.

HM: Mr. Nied, thanks so much for talking to us.

JN: Thank you.

HM: OK. Bye.

JN: Bye now.

JD: Jared Nied helped lead a spontaneous community effort to erase anti-Semitic graffiti from a New York City subway train on Saturday night. We reached him in New York.

[Music: Piano]

Dateline: Piggy Smalls

JD: Dateline Forest, Grove Oregon.

[Music: Hip hop]

JD: They got Al Capone on tax evasion charges. John Dillinger was taken down by cops and federal agents in a shootout outside a Chicago movie theater and Piggy Smalls, well law enforcement tried every which way to put Piggy away. But in the end I guess that like Capone and Dillinger. Hubris was his downfall that and the fact that pot-bellied pig and natural born criminals. For months, Piggy the pig terrorized Forest, Grove Oregon. Let me dial that back a bit… for months, piggy the pig slightly irritated Forest Grove, Oregon. He first showed up in November when the police log reported quote, “police looked for a little black pig reportedly running down 16th Avenue from cedar. They were unable to find it.” And then the very next day quote, “a citizen reported a pig in the bushes near 17th Avenue likely related to the call the previous day. Officers located the pig; however, it eluded capture.” That signaled the beginning of a game of cat and mouse or pig perhaps and mouse or likely cat and pig. Anyway Piggy would appear and startle or harass someone and disappear before the cops could show up. Residents feared he would never be captured. Feared actually is probably a little strong. Residents were sort of concerned that he'd never be captured, but not very concerned. But this past Friday, the Forest Grove Police Department announced that piggy Smalls reign of VOB discomfort had ended. That pig had been apprehended by quote, “a joint task force of the FGPD code enforcement officer and a representative of Home Sweet Home Properties.” Good work by the task force there. Like Dillinger or Capone, Piggy may well be the big kahuna overseeing a crime syndicate and if he is you'll find out soon because word on the street is he's a squealer.

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Part 2: Russian activist poisoned, old Bob Marley recording

Russian activist poisoned

Guest: Evgenia Kara-Murza

JD: His symptoms are the kind you would hope to see once in a lifetime. But for one Russian activist, this is the second time Vladimir Kara-Murza, a well-known Kremlin critic is in a medically-induced coma at a Moscow hospital. He was admitted on Thursday morning, in critical condition. His family has been here before. Two years ago, Mr. Kara-Murza nearly died after a suspected poisoning. And his condition this time, according to his wife and his lawyer, is troublingly similar. Carol spoke to Mr. Kara-Murza at a protest in Pushkin Square in Moscow in March of 2012. The day after Russian President Vladimir Putin declared victory in the most recent election. Here's part of that conversation, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL OFF: Mr. Kara-Murza, can you describe what's happening where you are right now?

VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA: This is of course a historic square where in 1965 the first anti-communist dissident demonstration was held. So this is very much a symbolic place for the Russian democratic movement. And tonight, many many thousands of Muscovites have gathered here to protest the rigged election of Vladimir Putin. Many many thousands of Muscovites are here chanting Russia without Putin a Russia will be free. The Kremlin is basically surrounded by armed police and special police units. It does not look like the thing the winner of an honest election would do. Putin is afraid of his own people and he should be because people are fed up with his twelve year rule. These thousands of people who have gathered in central Moscow tonight are sending that message.

JD: That was a Russian activist Vladimir Kara-Murza speaking to Carol in March of 2012. Today, Mr. Kara-Murza is in critical condition at a Moscow hospital. We reached his wife, Evgenia Kara-Murza in Moscow.

HM: Ms. Kara-Murza, first of all, thank you very much for speaking with us right now. I know this has to be a difficult time.

EVGENIA KARA-MURZA: Sure.

HM: How is your husband doing at this point?

EKM: Well, he's doing slightly better than yesterday or the day before that. His condition has somewhat stabilized. His doctors of course are very careful about guaranteeing for recovery or anything, but his heart seems to be doing better. He’s still incubated, but they're trying to wake him up now to see how he's going to be doing.

HM: OK.

EKM: About being you know in a medically-induced coma.

HM: Can you tell us where your husband was when the symptoms first struck?

EKM: Yes, he was at my parents place in Moscow. They were supposed to leave for Washington with my mom. And instead he was taken to the intensive care. And my mom went straight to the airport because at that point, we already knew that something serious was happening and I would have to be here. So my mom flew to Washington. She has traded places with me and she's staying with our kids now. She’s taking care of them while I'm here.

HM: Your husband has had multiple organ failure. What have the doctors been able to determine about the cause of this sudden illness?

EKM: Well, unfortunately the cause is unknown. There's a show diagnosed is acute intoxication by an unidentified substance. According to the doctors, it is the same clinical picture as they saw two years ago. So it seems that my husband was poisoned both then and now.

HM: Can you describe what happened two years ago and how it compares with this instance?

EKM: The onset of his symptoms was sudden both times. The first symptoms he found was a rapid accelerated heartbeat and difficulty to breathe. Last time he was taken to the hospital where they thought it was heart failure. Then he was transported to another hospital and another. So he was you know taken from one place to another until they determined that it had nothing to do with his heart. This time however, he's being treated by the same medical team and they knew what they are dealing with. Because a couple of hours after he was admitted to the hospital, his doctor wrote to me that he thinks they are dealing with exactly the same situation.

HM: Who do you think might have poisoned him?

EKM: Well, my husband his activity I think he irritates many people. So it is hard to say who could do this exactly. But I know that the current situation in Russia is such that opposition leaders can be shot in front of the Kremlin, can be poisoned, thrown in the jail and there is no end to this. So whoever poisoned my husband enjoys this situation where you can do whatever you choose and not be held liable for that.

HM: You mentioned being shot in front of the Kremlin, your husband's friend, the opposition leader Boris Nemtsov as we know was assassinated near the Kremlin. He was, like your husband. a critic of President Putin. Given what happened to his friend. Why does your husband continue to speak out?

EKM: Because this is who Vladimir is. He is not someone who can be intimidated and even the fact itself that Boris Nemtsov was brutally assassinated two hundred yards from the Kremlin. I think it infuriated my husband. He was absolutely devastated by his death. But all things infuriated him because how can a country be led by someone who allows such a situation? It's unthinkable. A true leader will not stoop down to threatening his own citizens. He will not allow the situation in the country where opposition leaders can be brutally killed, shot, poisoned. And my husband believes in what he does he believes that Russia can be free and democratic. He believes that people are ready and he will not be intimidated.

HM: Having lived through this kind of thing with your husband once before how are you coping? You sound defiant, but this can't be easy?

EKM: Of course it doesn't come easy, I’m his wife, I'm the mother of his kids and of course they want their daddy at home playing soccer and building Legos. But at the same time, I know who my husband is and I married the guy all these years ago and he was just the same. So nothing has changed in this regard. He believes in what he does. And I truly, deeply respect and admire him for that. I am to say that I'm not frightened? No I will not say that. Of course I'm terrified every time he leaves the house to go on one of his trips. I'm terrified. But at the same time I know that this is someone who truly believes that he can make a difference and that keeps him going. And I think that keeps me fighting for him because this is the person I admire with all my heart.

HM: Ms. Kara-Murza, I hope your husband has a full recovery and I appreciate very much for talking with us today.

EKM: Thank you very much. Thank you, Helen.

JD: That was Evgenia Kara-Murza speaking to us from Moscow. Her husband Vladimir Kara-Murza is a well-known critic of Russia's government. Two years ago, he was nearly killed by a suspected poisoning last week he was rushed to the hospital with similar symptoms.

[Music: Light rock]

Sex abuse newser

JD: Four-thousand, four-hundred-and-forty-four. That is the number of people who claim to have been victimized by the Catholic Church in Australia over the last 35 years. That statistic was just one of many revealed today by the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex Abuse. The Truth, Justice and Healing Council is the body coordinating the church's response to the inquiry. Francis Sullivan is the chief executive of that council. At a press conference today, he struggled to address the numbers.

SOUNDCLIP

FRANCIS SULLIVAN: There can be no doubt. That the proportion of priests since 1950, against whom even claims of abuse have been made undermines the image and credibility of the priesthood. Likewise, the very high proportion of religious brothers with claims of abuse only further corrodes the community's trust. The data tells us that over six decades from 1950 to 2010, some one-thousand, two-hundred-and-sixty-five catholic priests and religious were the subject of a child sexual abuse claim. These numbers are shocking, they are tragic and they are indefensible. And each entry in this data for the most part, represents a child who suffered at the hands of someone who should be cared for and protected them. And let's not forget the ripples of the abuse also felt by their family, friends and carers. The secondary victims need not only to be knowledge. But to be tangibly supported and compensated for the impact on their lives. The data is an indictment on the press and religious who abused these children. It also reflects on the church leaders, who at times failed to take steps to deal with the abuses. Failed to call them to order and failed to deal with them in accordance with the law. And perhaps worse took steps which had the effect if not the intent of enabling to abuse again.

JD: Francis Sullivan is the chief executive of the Truth, Justice and Healing Council in Australia. Today, the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex Abuse released a number of disturbing statistics about the Catholic Church. In the years between 1980 and 2015, four-thousand, four-hundred-and-forty-four people alleged incidents of child sexual abuse by Catholic Church authorities. Abuse allegedly took place in more than 1,000 institutions and involved seven per cent of all Australian Catholic priests.

Old Bob Marley recording

Guest: Louis Hoover

[Music: Jammin/ Reggae]

JD: So that is of course the opening to one of Bob Marley's best-known tracks. You know it, but I am willing to bet that you have never heard this particular recording because that recording of “Jammin” along with hours and hours of other Marley classics has sat gathering dust and mold in a London basement for decades. It took a year to restore those tapes and now though there is hope that those neglected recordings will finally be released. Louis Hoover is a jazz musician who helped rescue the recordings. We reached him aboard the Queen Mary Two, somewhere in the Indian Ocean.

HM: Louis Hoover, tell us about that moment you first heard these restored tapes?

LOUIS HOOVER: Helen, it was remarkable because it’s the nature of the tape itself the fact it was a 24 track masters. So we’re listening to the artist’s paint palate if you like. It doesn’t get any purer than that. The performance goes straight to that tape as you know and then everything comes out of that. They mix it down and bounce it down. So it was remarkable to just go back 40 years, especially for my partner in this project, who was actually in the audience in London at the Lyceum on the night they recorded that famous live version of the “No Woman No Cry.” And there he was singing along as a 21-year-old and this part of the salvation process 40 years later, remarkable.

HM: What was the first song you heard?

LH: “Jammin” I think that we played through the rest of them. But it was the build-up that made it special. You know you have to wait to over a year for the results of that tape restoration. And fingers crossed hoping that it would work. And you know rescuing these 13 tapes that were destined for the refuge and destruction within hours of us intervening. So it is a remarkable story really. And the fact that the tapes were found within a mile of where I used to live I grew up in London as a kid.

HM: Why had they been lost all these years? Where had they been stashed?

LH: I think it’s fair to say they were either forgotten or left behind or just certainly neglected and the damage was caused by water damage. Now whether that was through rain or building flood that they were just they were gone. They were beyond redemption by normal standards. My friend of 28 years, Stanley he's the guy who is actually in the audience at the time. He got a call from a friend to say that a couple is clearing out this old hotel. If you could call it that it was a really down-beat place, but and that was all these refuges and rusty bikes the stuff they were cleared away and they came across these for these 13 huge tapes. Cardboard boxes with Bob Marley recorded live in London and Paris 74 to 1977. So Joe said hey wait, wait, wait. You know whatever happens you know you can't throw those away. We'll take those and eventually we found the expert in the audio industry, fantastic technician called Mark Nichols who painstakingly worked on the tapes day by day in between recording sessions literally on his hands and sometimes with his magic lotions and potions. We were called in about 14 months after leaving them with him. And then when we went along there we were you know full of trepidation still because he wasn't giving anything away. And then when he pushed the sliders up, it was remarkable just a fantastic sound. And that's where we are now.

HM: Had these tapes been known to exist? I mean were you skeptical at all they could even be out there?

LH: Well, obviously we weren't sure that you know what the tapes were labeled as having on them was actually the content on the tapes. So we didn't even know that until we got them cleaned up. So in the in the passage of time of course it's become a point of extreme interest for us and lots of information has come up for instance in Bob Marley's land or Bob Marley’s world there are a bunch of tapes that are known as “The Lost Masters.” And in fact, our music lawyer who was a young law student at the time, he also went to one of those concerts in the ‘70s and could never understand why when he eventually bought the album of Marley live in London that there was only six tracks on it. So this could be the answer. We're still looking into it really.

HM: So what's on there that we might not have heard before or not have heard in its form that you now have it?

LH: There's nothing on there that we haven't heard before, that’s to be stressed. But they are the live recordings of at the time Helen you got to remember the Bob was still pretty underground he wasn't mainstream. This was the ‘70s you know glam rock he was still covered bubbling up from underneath it and so most people didn't even know these songs. But at the time when they were recorded onto these particular tapes it was only after that in the last 40 years they become massive massive hit globally. You know that's part of the value of them. The spiritual value of them and it was remarkable. It's like someone said, it was like finding Picasso's paint palette paint and then his ghost coming out and painting two dozen of his masters just for you again. So it was remarkable really.

HM: Yeah, I was going to say why should Bob Marley fans be so excited by this do you think?

LH: In terms of the Bob Marley following these are the originals and the original sort of if you like virgin medium that the songs went on to first. You know just come through the air and through the leads on stage straight onto the 24 track. So these are all the separate ingredients that can be remixed, reused again by Universal if they so decide. And if Universal are indeed the people who decide to do that.

HM: Louis Hoover, thank you very much for talking to us.

LH: Thank you very much. It’s been a pleasure.

HM: OK. Bye bye.

LH: All right Helen, bye bye.

JD: We reached Louis Hoover aboard the Queen Mary Two, on the Indian Ocean. You can see some photographs of these restored tapes on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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Part 3: Romania protests, humpback whales

UK Trump address

JD: In British parliament today, the Speaker for the House of Commons did something unusual: he spoke up. normally of course the Speaker is studiously neutral, but President Donald Trump's planned state visit to the UK roused Speaker John Bercow to abandon that neutrality. Mr Bercow called himself one of the three “key holders” to Westminster Hall and made it very clear that the US President would not be welcome to address the House.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN BERCOW: An address by a foreign leader to both Houses of Parliament is not an automatic right. It is an earned honor. I must say to the honorable gentleman to all who signed his early day motion and to others with strong views about this matter on either side of the argument that before the imposition of the migrant ban. I would myself, have been strongly opposed to an address by President Trump in Westminster Hall. After the imposition of the migrant ban, I am even more strongly opposed to an address…

[Sound: Loud cheering and boos]

JB: To an address by President Trump. In Westminster Hall and I conclude by saying to the honorable gentleman this: we value our relationship with the United States. If a state visit takes place that he's way beyond and above the pay grade of the Speaker. However, as far as this place is concerned, I feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and to sexism. And our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary are hugely important considerations in the House of Commons.

[Sound: Even more cheering and boos]

JD: That was the Speaker of the British House of Commons John Bercow, telling members of parliament today, that he would not welcome President Donald Trump to Westminster Hall to give an address and he'll likely get a lot of support for his position. A petition to prevent the U.S. President from making a state visit to the UK has been signed by more than 1.8 million Britons. On a lighter note, Mr. Bercow also said today that Colman's clerks will no longer be required to wear wigs.

[Music: Light rock]

Romania protests

Guests: Andrea Curean

JD: They have taken to the streets in the hundreds of thousands waving signs reading, “They are Hijacking Romania,” and “Making Corruption Great Again. Since the beginning of the month, protesters have loudly demanded that their government backed down from a new law that weakens anti-corruption rules. And over the weekend, the government did promise to rescind the decree, but it seems many Romanians are still not satisfied. Andrea Curean is a 25-year-old who has been out on the street almost every night since the protests began. We reached her in Cluj-Napoca, Romania.

HM: Ms. Curean, the government has agreed to go back on this law that would decriminalize some corruption offenses. But you and others are still protesting why?

ANDREA CUREAN: I think everyone is still paying attention to everything they do because after what happened, I don't think people trust them anymore. And once you lose that I think it's very hard to gain it back.

HM: Maybe you can explain to us a little bit about the bill itself and what it was supposed to do and what the government is promising to do now?

AC: So at first when they tried to publish it, it would have criminalized the abuse of power in offices where some less than forty-seven thousand U.S. dollars were involved. It would have also stopped all investigations where pending corruption offenses. It would have freed people and officials that were imprisoned now for corruption. And I actually I think the most important thing that made us find everything suspicious of it was that among those who would benefit from this was the President of the Social Democratic Party, which is now in the coalition government.

HM: Many are saying — many of the fellow protestors that are on the street with you — that they won't be satisfied until your Prime Minister Sorin Grindeanu resigns even though he's been in office for only a month. Why does he have to step down do you think?

AC: I think that people, especially I think those who are in power misunderstood the protesting or the why we were protesting. Many people say that we don't respect the vote that happened on the 11th of December. Many people say that he didn't have the time to prove that he's a good Prime Minister. The voting doesn't mean you have the power or you are free to do whatever you want for the next year if you just if you make mistakes like this right from the start. And if you try to I think people where people feel like we've been like they try to do it behind our back because they approved the decree at 10:30 p.m. So no one works like in the public system at 10:30 p.m. on a Tuesday night. So we feel like he tried to deceive us, that he was honest. This was never a part of their plan before the elections. So the people never knew that this was something they were planning one day they will win the election. So we kind of feel that he tried to deceive us along with the Social Democratic Party.

HM: You know that the images coming out of Bucharest last night were extraordinary I mean the size of the crowd. Can you tell us what it feels like on the streets of your city when you're out there with these protesters?

AC: It's been amazing. I've never took part in something this big. I've never been surrounded by so many nice people, young people. A lot of a lot of friends everything was peaceful in the city. We were happy that we didn't have any violent events. I'm 25, so I was born after the revolution. I didn't understand I didn't fully understand what it means to be with thousands of people in the streets. Everyone just had the same voice everyone is actually trying to have a better life here. So we're seeing so many people around me just convinced me that we're doing the right thing and we'll keep doing that in the days to come.

HM: So the message seems to be that Romanians are fed up with corruption. So how does it affect your daily life? Do you see corruption around you?

AC: Yeah, I think corruption has been after the revolution. It's it has been so deeply rooted into the system that you see it around you maybe on a daily basis, but you just try to find out normal or just ignore it. So if you see someone bribing a nurse let's say in a hospital and they receive better treatment everyone will start to just give money to that nurse so they can receive the same treatment or it will go the same for a doctor if you have to go. Or it happens in universities where when you don't pass an exam. Either the teacher asks you for money, but this has to be like this are usually done like in a private space, a private office. Just when the teacher or you or you and the doctor although everyone knows what's going on.

HM: Just think it's so much a part of daily life, can you sustain the kind of protests that we were seeing in recent days? You know if people just take that for granted that that's the way life is?

AC: I think some people take that for granted because it's been going on for the last 20 years at least. They're kind of like in their youth to go with something on them even if you go with flowers or with coffee or with chocolate or with anything that can be seen as a gift.

HM: Now the protests today were smaller than they've been. Do you think you movement has staying power? Are people going to keep coming out?

AC: I think so yes. I'm sure. The weather hasn't been great today. Honestly it's been raining here in Bucharest from what I've seen on TV, but from what I see on social media I think social media was a great thing for us during these protests because we managed to organize ourselves better and to just get news from all around the country. But I think I think people will definitely come in the next days or the crowds as I said will probably be smaller. I've seen that today. There were 25,000 people outside in in Bucharest. That's less than yesterday of course, but I think that people will still be out.

HM: Ms. Curean, thank you very much. Appreciate you talking with us.

AC: Thank you. Thank you so much, Helen.

HM: All right. Bye bye.

AC: Bye bye.

Andrea Curean is one of hundreds of thousands of Romanians who have taken to the streets to protest corruption in recent days. We reached her in Cluj-Napoca, Romania.

[Music: Guitar and piano]

Vice journalist appeal

JD: Reporter Ben Makuch is not about to stop fighting for his press freedoms — even if it means giving up his freedom altogether. Today Mr. Makuch was in court to appeal an order that he hand over his notes detailing his contact with a source. That source is an alleged Islamic jihadist from Alberta. And months after Mr. Makuch secured an interview with this source, the RCMP came a knocking. Mr. Makuch recalled that time with As It Happens just months before he was first ordered by a court to hand over his materials. And he outlined his reasons for resisting the RCMP request. Here's part of his conversation with Carol. This is from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

BEN MAKUCH: Strangely enough I was in Russia when it happened, but apparently two officers came in service with essentially a search warrant for all of my communications and notes having to do with my communications with Farah Muhammad Shirdon.

CO: And who is this person?

BM: He is a suspected and alleged Islamic state jihadist. He's from Calgary and I've been in contact with him since spring 2014 and he was quite active online in terms of social media.

CO: So you didn't turn anything over. But what happened to the material that they were seeking?

BM: I am in possession of it still.

CO: And have you been able to do any more work on that story since this since the police came?

BM: Yeah, I actually have I've been in contact with him even after the police showed up at our doorstep. Obviously there was no mention of it to him or anything like that because there was a gag order on the investigation. So I couldn't actually talk about it publicly, which was something that was troubling even on a personal level because you can't talk about something and you know I’d just come back from Russia where press freedoms are not very expensive and to come back and know that you're national police force is trying to take essentially your source information from you to be part of an investigation was dismaying to say the least. I mean it's not something that's good for the public if a source in the future is afraid to talk to a journalist because any information that we have can be turned over to the police. So we will be fighting it. I have no interest thus far or in the future to be giving this up to the RCMP. We will be exhausting every legal avenue we can in order to stop that from happening.

CO: What might be the consequences for you?

BM: I mean if it went really south and I was charged with contempt of court. I could be fined or could be given jail time. Which has been something that has weighed heavily on me since I've known about this and that's why it's been important that it gets out into the public and the people know about it.

CO: So why should it be in the public interest that you protect a source that threatens to harm people?

BM: Any source that comes to me confidentially I'm going to protect in any way. But to me this isn't really about so much source protection as it is about protecting the rights of journalists and their notes and their investigative tools. Because if we start to become the investigative arm the police then that means essentially any time something comes out where the police decide that they want journalists to come to them and give them information that can be forcibly done. But more so, what we have to remember is that we're news gatherers. If sources are afraid to come to us because we'll give information that they've given us the police. It's going to seriously hinder how we do our job and how the “Fifth Estate” operates.

CO: Is there anything that the RCMP could gain in the way of security for Canada by being able to get hold of your material?

BM: I don't think so. I'm not really sure why they want all this information? It seems to me like it's a bit of a fishing expedition. I could be wrong, but there's nothing in the information that I have but I haven't made public that is in the interest the RCMP.

JD: From our archives. That was Vice reporter Ben Makuch speaking with Carol on October the 30th of 2015. Mr. Makuch appeared in Ontario Superior Court today to appeal a ruling that he hand over his notes detailing his communication with a suspected Islamic terrorist.

[Music: Classical guitar]

Humpback whale study

Guest: Ailbhe Kavanagh

JD: For whale watchers there is really nothing more exhilarating than when a humpback breeches when it launches itself into the air and then just slams back into the sea. Guess what humans though, it's not about us. Ailbhe Kavanagh is a marine biologist at University College Cork. Her new study reveals that when a humpback whale breaches it is actually a form of communication. We reached Ms. Kavanagh in Cork.

HM: Dr. Kavanagh, what is a humpback whale trying to say when it smashes its body onto the surface of the water?

AILBHE KAVANAGH: Well, that's a really complicated question. Very hard to answer in one simple answer. We don't know exactly what they're trying to say, but my work I think brought us closer to an answer. Breeching, so that when they leap out of the water and crash their whole body on the surface of the water, We think they're using that to communicate with distant whale groups of groups or maybe four or five kilometers away from them. And when they're using other surface behaviors like tails flapping or fluke flapping they're communicating in much more close range. So when other groups are joining them or when they're splitting from them.

HM: So you don't know what they're trying to say, but you know they're trying to make contact?

AK: Exactly, yes. So we don't know and they may be trying to say different things depending on whether they're male or female or a calf, but we're just really kind of cracking that you know the surface of what they're trying to do to each other.

HM: Presumably the full breach as the whale hits the water makes a bigger noise than if they're just slopping the water?

AK: Absolutely. So the whale breach is quite a loud sound particularly if you're under water. And that sound travels quite a distance maybe four or five kilometers. And that's why they're also using it more when other whale groups are further away. And they also use it more when in windier weather conditions. So windier weather is associated with more background noise under water, so you have more waves and more noise underwater, so that maybe these breaching noises are easier to hear in those kind of noisy conditions.

HM: So tell us how you came to this conclusion? How you conducted the research?

AK: I had a massive team of observers and other researchers working with me. And we had these elevated land-based platforms along the east coast of Australia at Pridgin Beach where the whales come really close on their eye for migration back to their feeding grounds. And we able to track the whales with like multiple teams of observers tracking them from land. So there's no disturbance from boats or anything else, it’s the natural behavior we're looking at. And so we'd groups following like individual groups of whales and recording their swimming speed and whether they change direction and if they were doing these behaviors or if other whales were joining them and then we had other groups of observers getting a bigger picture of what whales are around them what are the weather conditions like. What are the other whales around them doing? Is there a singing whale in the area? And we were able to then piece all this data together to try and tease out what are the patterns and try and work out when these behaviors are occurring more or less.

HM: Now in your study you call the behavior in terms of hitting the surface of the water “social sounds.” How is that different from when we hear a male humpback whale singing?

AK: So male humpbacks, they're the only ones that sing. Only the males sing and it's this long, repetitive, complex vocalization. And they think it is like a breeding display. I'm not exactly sure what they're using for, but some kind of breeding display. Whereas there's different kinds of “social sounds,” so there’s these short vocal “social sounds” and then there's theses surface active behaviors that also create a sound which we would call “social sounds” as well. And these “social sounds” are different because they're performed by females, males, calfs and they’re performed under a variety of different contexts. When other groups are joining, when their splitting and their heard like from breeding grounds right into the feeding ground. So you hear them all the time and so it's much more complex.

HM: Your study also points out that the whales are breaching during migration and not just at other times. Why is this important?

AK: Well, generally speaking humpback whales don't feed on migration, so they leave the feeding grounds and they migrate like sometimes a couple of thousand kilometers up to breeding grounds where they breed and calf. And then they migrate back down to their feeding grounds. So there’s month at a time where they're not feeding at all. So we would imagine that they would be doing their best to conserve as much energy as possible. And like we're not exactly sure how much energy say a breach or tails flap entails, but obviously repeated breaches and repeated bouts of these tails slapping must use some amount of energy. So if they're using this energy and they must be important they must be important for their communication.

HM: How do you think your research might change what is known about how whales communicate?

AK: So it's long been known that are you know it's part of their communication. So what our work did really we were lucky in that we had the opportunity and we had the large sample size to be able to tease out because the behavior is really variable. So we were able to tease out like more specific functions of these individual behaviors, which really had been difficult to do before.

HM: Do you think this is going to come as a disappointment to those of us who've been lucky enough to see whales breaching up close and thought they were just showing off for us?

AK: Well, absolutely not. I think if you've been close to a whale breaching you'll know that nothing could make that not exciting. It’s one of the most exciting things anyone could see and this is only one possible function. So you know there may be different functions depending on where you see the whale breaching or who's doing the breaching. like it's possible that maybe calves are breaching as a form of play as well. You know that's not really clear yet and it's kind of we're more research; more finds is needed to kind of tease out how important it is for individual whales.

HM: And I have to agree with you. Whale watching among my most amazing vacation experiences ever.

AK: Absolutely.

HM: Thank you very much for telling us about the research.

AK: No worries. Thank you for your interest.

HM: OK. Bye bye.

AK: OK, thanks. Bye.

JD: We reached marine biologist Ailbhe Kavanagh in Cork.

[Music: Pop]

Rob Stewart obit

Rob Stewart made fighting for sharks his life's work. And now the people he inspired say that they will continue where he left off. The Toronto biologist and filmmaker was found dead off the Florida coast on Friday. He had been diving in one of the oceans he had fought to protect. Mr. Stewart rose to fame in 2006, when his documentary “Sharkwater” began winning award after award. And then he got down to business. He spoke to anyone who would listen about the imminent extinction of the ancient predator and the appetizer that would be their end. In 2012, Rob Stewart screened his film for lawmakers on Parliament Hill and before that he spoke to Alan Neal of CBC Ottawa’s All in a Day.

SOUNDCLIP

ROB STEWART: I met my first shark when I was nine and as a kid I'd seen Jaws, I'd read the headlines, I was terrified and this shark was afraid of me. And every shark that I met after that I was afraid of me. And it sort of changed my whole perspective. You know sharks are afraid of a 9-year-old kid maybe I don't have to be afraid of them as well. And then I you know sort of studied them and tailored my life around trying to interact with them and meet them in the wild. And then ended up finding out when I was about 20 that sharks were being wiped out and then they're being left up for shark fin soup for a dish that's reserved for the uber-wealthy and because of this, their populations had dropped 90 per cent in 30 years.

ALAN NEAL: So this is what your main concern is now: the shark fin soup?

RS: Yeah, so it's a big concern. You know sharks are some of the oldest, longest lasting, most important predators the planet has. I mean evolutionarily they're the first animal on earth with a set of jaws. They predate the dinosaurs by 150 million years and in a very real way set up a framework for life in the oceans. And if we remove that framework, we're removing you know the most important ecosystems for our own survival.

AN: Is it a harder sell? Saving the sharks?

RS: Yeah, it’s like championing the plague.

AN: Right.

RS: One of reasons we started making “Sharkwater” was that we thought if we could change the public's perception of sharks, show us that they're not jaws, they're not menacing predators. Show people that they're actually phenomenal, important animals you know they’ve got two more senses than people. They are Amazing and if we can give you love them they love pandas and bears maybe they'll fight for their protection. And since the movies come out a lot has changed. You know people have been championing sharks, they’ve taken the cause and the Sharks have more protection now than ever before. But still at the same time, the fishing pressure is mounted in the fact that these animals are more scarce means that they're even more valuable. So the most endangered ones and the ones that are actually on the endangered species list. Their fins are the highest price of all the fins.

AN: you're screening your film for politicians tonight. What are you what are you hoping to see happen?

RS: We're hoping to get a ban on shark fin across Canada. And right now there's a bill that's been proposed in Canada to ban the importation of shark fins. And the over whelming sentiment from the public is that they want a world with sharks. Especially kids you know kids want the last dragons, the last dinosaurs to have on the planet to be there when they're old.

JD: That was CBC Ottawa’s Alan Neal speaking to Rob Stewart in 2012. The Toronto filmmaker’s body was found on Friday off the Florida coast following what appears to have been a diving accident. He was 37-years-old. And despite repeated attempts, MPs have not yet banned the importation of shark fins into Canada.

[Music: String ensemble and piano]

Black Sabbath final performance

JD: Forty-seven years, five months and six days, the length of time between the very first chord that roared out of a band called Black Sabbath and the last chord that echoed through Genting Arena in Birmingham, England. On August 30th of 1969, the band first played under the name Black Sabbath. It was a reinvention for Ozzy Osborne, Tony Iommi, Geezer Butler and Bill Ward, who had first played together under the terrible and not at all scary name “Polka Tulk Blues Band” and it marked the beginning of a long, loud career that finally ended on Saturday. Drummer Bill Ward was not playing for legal health and hating Ozzy reasons, but the other three original members all in their late 60s still had the strength to bury their hometown under heavy rock. The band members have suggested Black Sabbath might possibly make another album or play a show here and there. But on stage Ozzy called it the final show and the tour was called “The End”. So let's assume it actually is the end and let's hear how they ended “The end”. This was the final song in that final show.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Black Sabbath playing their song “Paranoid’]

JD: Black Sabbath with the title song from the 1970 album “Paranoid” on Saturday, in Birmingham, England Black Sabbath played its final show ever.

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Feb 6, 2017 episode transcript

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