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The AIH Transcript for November 22, 2016

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

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Part 1: New fighter jets, Military class action suit, Mansplaining hotline

Prologue

CO: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JD: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: You ain't seen nothing jet. But you're about to, because the federal government is set to pick up 18 fancy new jet fighters as a stop-gap measure -- and Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan will explain why that's a great idea.

JD: Pain by numbers. Illinois congressman Danny Davis tells us about the victim of Chicago's 701st homicide… a teenage boy allegedly killed because of an argument over shoes, who happens to be Congressman Davis's grandson.

CO: Military derision. A former second lieutenant hopes to launch a class-action suit against the Canadian Forces… saying she faced discrimination and harassment just because she's a woman.

JD: A come-from-nearly-left-behind victory. Six years ago, Lionel Sanders was struggling with a serious drug addiction -- and last weekend, he set a new world record in the Iron Man Triathlon.

CO: They call him "Chicken Fingers." With nothing more than his own two hands, and a powerful love of poultry, a Missouri man captures a rogue rooster that's been waking up a Pittsburgh neighbourhood.

JD: And... interrupting the man-ifesto. Swedish women whose male co-workers suddenly start discussing which ABBA songs are best, and why, finally have a way out of the one-sided conversation: a hotline for reporting "man-splaining." As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that hopes it'll leave a superior dude sub-dued.

[Music: Theme]

New fighter jets

Guest: Harjit Sajjan

JD: "A vital contribution to Canada's partnership with the United States." That's how the Department of National Defence describes today's plan to buy 18 new Super Hornet fighter jets. And that's just the start. The Super Hornets are meant to keep the Forces flying until a more permanent replacement for the CF-18 can be identified, and built. But so far there's no word on how much all these planes will cost, or when they might actually take to the air. Harjit Sajjan is Canada's Minister of Defence. We reached him in Ottawa.

[Music]

JD: Harjit Sajjan is Canada's Miinister of Defence. We reached him in Ottawa.

CO: Mr. Sajjan, right off the top, your press release calls these jets a contribution to Canada's partnership with the United States. What message are you hoping these new jets will send to our ally to the south and to President-Elect, Donald Trump.

HARJIT SAJJAN: No I mean first of all, we have launched a process to replace our fighters. To making sure that the Canadian armed forces, our Air Force has a replacement fighter fleet moving forward. And we have committed to do this. Once the defense policy review is announced, is released early next year, the process for this competition will start. We have also announced an additional investment of the interim fleet to be able to address the capability gap as well. While we extend our current CFATs that we have into the future to making sure we have all the necessary tools to meet our operational obligations.

CO: OK, just back to my question. So what is it you want? What's the message you want to send to the United States, since you mentioned this right off the top. Obviously this is important that the United States understands that Canada is doing this, is taking this initiative. Why is that important?

HS: Because we are part of NORAD. NORAD is the only binational command in the world. It sends a message to the U.S. that we are very serious about replacing our fighters because in addition to commanding NORAD, we are responsible for the security of Canada and the US when it comes to the airspace and sending this message is a direct message. How much Canada considers… how important it is for Canada to invest into the air force and its military.

CO: It’s not just NORAD… NATO as well. These are the two agencies that Canada is supposed to contribute to and there are a lot of pressures from the United States and from other members, that Canada step up. And this is, when it comes to our NATO commitment, Canada is committed. We've just taken on the leading role, one of the four leading roles in NATO, with the forward presence, alongside the U.S., the U.K. and Germany. We are committed in supporting NATO in terms of the two percent that is talked about a lot, we have a defense policy review that we are we are completing and within the context of all that was stated, well I need to do a proper consultation, a defense policy consultation, to making sure that Canada decides on what type of Canadian Armed Forces is needed that's going to be looking 10 to 20 years from now. Now that the review is done, we’re going to be making that investment. I've always said, we needed to invest and we need predictable funding that goes into the armed forces so we can meet our obligations.

CO: OK if you're if you think the obligation is to meet that two percent obligation to NATO, we're a long way from there, we’re less than 1 percent. We have to double our contribution, our military contribution, or spending of GDP, in order to meet that two percent. Are we going to do that?

HS: It's just about how much you spend, it's what you do. Now we have lead in the coalition in Iraq. We're in NATO as well, and we're going be launching peace operations. But when it comes to the spending on defense, our government is committed to spending in defense, but we need to pick the number that we're going to be spending on defense based on our needs. That's going to meet the needs for Canada. Canada's defense, our multilateral obligations, as well, but also our international commitments. So it's the current threat but we also need to be looking at modernizing and making sure we have the right Canadian Armed Forces structure, that's going to look to 10 to 20 years from now as well. And whatever that number is going to be, we will invest into that.

CO: You said these Super Hornets that you're going to acquire, this is to fill the capability gap because of the aging CFA teams we have. How big is that capability gap?

HS: Obviously, I cannot give you the detailed answer to that because the number is classified. I would have loved to be able to just launch a competition and to be replacing our CFA teams. Now if this was done by the previous government long time ago, we wouldn't be in this situation. But I have to administer for national defense , look at all the factors, and look at what's in front of us. We have aging CFA teams, over 30 years old. We're going to have to fly them even further, in some cases 40 years, and 40 years plus, and there's a lot of uncertainty in that. So I'd rather… our government has decided that we're going to be investing into the air force and not risk manage this gap. But we want to be able to fill this gap while we go through the process of replacing the entire fleet.

CO: OK just very quickly, the money question. How much are you talking about? You've been showing numbers around that look like they're in a severe underestimation of what this is going to cost to replace this fleet. How much money you think it's going to cost?

HS: In fact actually, I've never talked about numbers because the only way we can actually put out numbers and when we give it to Canadians is once we've actually had the discussions, and once we can actually have binding information. Then only can we actually be able to talk about numbers. And that's why , even whether it's going to be for the for the interim fleet, we have a good idea based on our own analysis, but Minister Foote and her department will be starting that discussion and going through a thorough discussion to be able to find and get those numbers. And also to make sure that we… the aircraft meets all of our needs. And the full competition replacement, that will start early next year, will do just that. Once we are in a process to get real numbers, then we'll be sharing that with Canadians and to the House of Commons as well.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. Sajjan, thank you.

HS: OK thank you.

JD: Harjit Sajjan is Canada's Miinister of Defence. We reached him in Ottawa.

[Music]

Military class action suit

Guest: Glynis Rogers

JD: Glynis Rogers was in the Canadian Forces for a decade. Her memories are not fond. Ms. Rogers is proposing a class-action lawsuit against her former employer. A statement of claim she filed yesterday with the Nova Scotia Supreme Court alleges the Forces are rife with systemic gender-based discrimination. The suit comes from after a 2015 report from Supreme Court justice Marie Deschamps, which found that women in uniform are subject to rampant sexual misconduct. Glynis Rogers was discharged from the Forces in August. We reached her in Trenton, Ontario.

CO: Ms. Rogers, why have you decided to launch this class action suit, or try to, against your former employer?

GLYNIS ROGERS: I feel the severity of sexual harassment, sexual assault and sexual discrimination in the Canadian Forces has been continually downplayed. So I believe the suit will bring attention to these systemic issues, and incite the necessary changes to eradicate gender based discrimination from the Canadian Armed Forces.

CO: Can you tell us a bit about your own experiences in the military with this harassment, what you're what you're basing this on, from your own time in the military?

GR: There's been a number of specific incidences that I've experienced as part of my time in the military. Some examples are demeaning and offensive comments made from male members. Sometimes those comments objectify women based on their physical appearances. There is also differential treatment of women. We do have different physical fitness standards, but we're still viewed as inferior to males. It's almost like we need to prove ourselves more than male members. We have to work harder and be in better physical shape than male members in order to gain respect. There were times when comments were made about my intellectual capacity, almost as if I was treated as intellectually inferior based on my gender. And those are just some examples of what I personally went through.

CO: And was this something that was… was occasional, was it sometimes in some places where you were working in the military? Or was it… how consistent did you experience this behavior?

GR: Most of the comments I overheard would happen in a mess hall. But it did happen throughout my experiences, like while I was working on a job by peers, by superiors, by my subordinates. It almost happened on a daily basis.

CO: Your suit also claims that you were sexually assaulted while you were in the military.

GR: Yes. I was.

CO: Are you OK to tell us a little bit about that?

GR: Yes. When I was on a course and board in Ontario, I was sexually assaulted by another male member of the course. At first, it was very difficult for me to come to terms with it. I didn't want to report the incident because I feared of retaliation from the male member, from other male members, and from my superiors. I thought it would negatively impact my career. And it turns out that the court martial proceedings did have a negative impact on my career.

CO: You did eventually report it then.

GR: Yes, I did eventually report it. The man was court martialed. He was found guilty. He appealed on the basis of ineffective counsel. He won the appeal. There was a retrial, and he was found not guilty.

CO: What toll did all this take on you? In your career?

GR: The biggest hole that I had was emotionally. I felt there was a lot difficult to trust male members, especially those in uniform. When I saw males in uniform, I would get anxious. I wouldn't go to the mess hall to eat. I dropped about 30 pounds and especially once I’d lost that validation that came with the court martial when he was found not guilty, it destroyed me. I began sleeping all the time. I was severely depressed. I wouldn't eat. It had severe emotional consequences.

CO: You left the Canadian Forces in the summer. Is that right?

GR: Yes. I was medically released based on the mental health issues that I have been dealing with for the past few years.

CO: You were still in the military and the Canadian Forces when the Deschamps report came out. This is a Supreme Court justice Marie Deschamps, who investigated bad behavior in the military, said it was endemic the Canadian Forces, and said that it was there was a tendency to condone or turn a blind eye toward inappropriate sexual behavior. When you saw that report, how did you react?

GR: The report summarized what I already knew about the military. It made me feel hopeful that the military would take appropriate steps to eradicate the sexual discrimination and this misogynistic culture that is ingrained in the military. However, one of the initiatives, Operation Honor, that was intended to address sexual harassment, is now widely known in the military as a joke. They call it “hop on her.”

CO: Are you aware that after the Deschamps report came out, the Chief of Defense staff at the time, General Tom Lawson, said in an interview that he didn't condone the behavior of male members of the forces but he said that, “Men are biologically wired in a certain way and there will be those who believe it's a reasonable thing to press themselves and their desires on others.” What do you make of that comment?

GR: I believe that's one of the main issues that surround this misogynistic culture is the inaction of superiors and the turning a blind eye to the actual issues that have made this sexual discrimination such a serious issue in the military.

CO: I should add that General Lawson did say the next day that he said it was an awkward characterization to say that men are biologically wired to press themselves on women.

GR: It's more than an awkward characterization. This shouldn't feel normal. This shouldn't be the norm in the military. It shouldn’t be the norm in our culture. This widely accepted view that men can press themselves on women is backwards in my mind.

CO: Just finally, on your class action suit. How hopeful are you that the class will be certified and that you have others who will join you?

GR: I am very hopeful. The support that I've been receiving over the past two days has been overwhelming. I already have been getting messages from other women who have had similar horrible experiences, which breaks my heart but it also shows me that we're coming together and that we can actually impact the Canadian Armed Forces to change this culture.

CO: Ms. Rogers, I appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

GR: I appreciate it as well. Thank you very much.

JD: We reached Glynis Rogers in Trenton, Ontario. She was a former second lieutenant in the Canadian Armed Forces. She is seeking a class-action alleging systemic gender-based discrimination. None of the allegations has been proven in court.

[Music]

QP Trudeau Fundraiser

JD: There is another Liberal in the headlines for fronting a cash-for-access fundraiser. His name: Justin Trudeau. The Globe and Mail is reporting that the Prime Minister attended a 1500-dollar-a-head event in a private Toronto home back in May. Also in attendance: a bunch of Chinese billionaires, and a tycoon waiting for federal approval of his new bank. And with Mr. Trudeau just back in Ottawa from the APEC summit, the opposition was just waiting to pounce. Here's Interim Conservative Leader Rona Ambrose in Question Period this afternoon.

SOUNDCLIP

RONA AMBROSE: Mr. Speaker I’d like to welcome the Prime Minister back to this House.

MALE VOICE: Here here

RA: For the first time since November 2nd. We all know that the Prime Minister likes-

[Sound: sound of a rowdy crowd in the House]

MALE VOICE: Order. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition is aware that members do not draw attention to the presence or absence of other members in the House. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

RA: Again, I’d like to welcome the Prime Minister to the House.

[Sound: clapping]

RA: Mr. Speaker, we all know that the Prime Minister would rather hang out with billionaires than answer questions in Parliament.

[Sound: outcries of shock from the audience]

When he is not mingling with them in Sun Valley or Davos, he is hitting them up for Liberal Party donations back home. In May, in fact, Mr. Speaker, Chinese billionaires paid $1,500 for exclusive access to the Prime Minister at a Toronto mansion. Rubbing elbows with millionaires at these cash for access events does not pass the smell test, and the Prime Minister knows it. So why does he keep doing it?

[Sound: applause]

MALE VOICE: Right Honourable Prime Minister

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Mr. Speaker, Canadians faced a period of 10 years of lower than needed growth under the previous government. That’s why we have committed to engaging positively with the world to draw in investment. I am pleased with the representations we have made in Davos and elsewhere to demonstrate that Canada is a good place to invest. Indeed, when we talk about investments like Bell Helicopter in Mirabel with 1,000 more jobs, or the GM research in Markham, or the GE plant down in Niagara Region, we know that drawing in global investment is a great way to grow the economy and create jobs.

RA: Mr. Speaker, it’s not a coincidence that these billionaires the Prime Minister meets with actually wants something from him. One of the guests at the mansion in May wanted government approval for a new bank in Canada. So, you pay $1,500 for exclusive access to the Prime Minister and you get your final approval for a bank a few months later.
Not only does this event break the Prime Minister’s own ethics rules, it does not pass the smell test. He could stop this right away. Why doesn’t he?

[Sound: applause]

MALE VOICE: Right Honourable Prime Minister.

JT: Canadians can be reassured that the federal level has some of the toughest rules and laws around political fundraising of any level of government in this country. And indeed, we have always followed those rules and indeed the principles that underlie it. We also find it peculiar that the opposition is trying to politicize that particular issue since it was their finance minister who approved that bank before they were booted out of office.

[Sound: exclamations and applause from audience]

JD: Prime Minister Trudeau and Interim Conservative Leader Rona Ambrose in the House of Commons this afternoon.

[Music]

Mansplaining hotline

Guest: Moa Sven

JD: OK Carol, I’d like to explain something to you: mansplaining. Mansplaining is when a man explains something to a woman, usually. Often it is something that she may know as much or more about than the man who is doing the mansplaining. And I feel that I know quite a bit about this because I am… I’m what you would call, an observer, an observant person. And so because I've seen this at play in the workplace, in relationships, between friends, all over the place, I consider myself to be something of an expert in mansplaining…

CO: C–

JD: Carol, I’m sorry Carol. Just, what I'm getting to, is that it is a problem for workers all around the world to such an extent that a Swedish Workers Union opened up a hotline that you can use to report an incident of mansplaining in the works.

CO: C–

JD: Carol. In the workplace. Which is as I said…

[Sound: Carol sighing]

JD: of course, when a patronising man explains something to a woman, ignoring the likelihood that she already knows more than he does about the subject.

CO: This is so–

JD: Frequently–

CO: Jeff… I'm sorry. I'm sure you are an authority on mansplaining.

JD: I am.

CO: It’s just. We're supposed to be calling up this hotline in Sweden about mansplaining. And if you could just hold that for a moment, I'll get back. I'm sure you can clear things up for me, make it perfectly 100 percent–

JD: I will be more than happy. You go ahead.

CO: Let’s call the number.

[Sound: ring tone]

MOA SVAN: Hello.

CO: Hello. Is this the Swedish hotline to report mansplaining?

MS: Yes, yes it is. And you're talking to Moa. How are you?

CO: Hello Moa. Very well, this is Carol Off at CBC As It Happens, and I think I've just been mansplained.

MS: Oh no. Tell me what happened.

CO: It just… it was painful. And I just didn't know how to interrupt. It was my colleague. He was mansplaining “mansplaining.” He seems to be an authority on it. Is that possible?

MS: [Sound: laughing] No, it's not possible and someone should tell him that you are not an expert on everything.

Carol Off: What are some of the things, the mansplaining events, incidents that women told you about this week?

MS: Well, there was one woman who was studying philosophy. And she didn't want to complain too much. She didn't want to actually go into that. She was more like — do you have any general advice? I think that's how a lot of people are. We don't want to complain. We don't want to talk about that this happened and I'm so upset. My advice was that, you know, have a friend who helps you out and you help her out. You just sort of watch things happen together. When the class is over or the meeting is over you could just say everything: "Wasn't that really weird when he stole your idea?” “Yeah, and then everybody said it was his idea?" "Yeah! That was so weird." "Next time, what should we do? Maybe boost each other up instead, like yeah Maria your idea was great!" "No, your idea!" You know? We had generally a positive conversation. I think a lot of people want to be positive rather than complain. Especially women, because you know, nobody likes a girl complaining! [Sound: laughs] We should be happy. But I think that's good actually — that's what makes us survive.

CO: But you know Moa, I'm no shrinking violet. I don't pull back from things. Do all women accept mansplaining or how often do they push back do you think?

MS: I do think we push back all the time. I just don't think we complain too much about it. I think that a lot of us have strategies but maybe not consciously. Like, if someone steals our idea or tells us how things are, we just sort of, be stubborn about it. I don't think we take it. A lot of us don’t take it. I just don't think we even reflect on how often we deal with it. We rarely just point out like, "Hey! You stole my idea." I think we are so clever that we deal with it in so many ways. One of those ways is actually boosting other women and creating our own networks. Like if someone says… you know I work as a comedian and if someone says I'm going to be you know on a radio show or TV show and someone says, you should work with that guy. He's great. I'm like, “yeah, that’s interesting. But you know I'm going to work with this woman and she's fantastic.”

CO: There are some very famous cases of mansplaining, if you go online. Men explaining the pain of childbirth. Men explaining menstruation to women. Men explaining feminism and men often saying, "Well, I can't really explain this to you because it involves math."

MS: [Sound: laughs] Yeah, but what I like is the new thing in Sweden — it's Daddy feminists. The Dad feminists. It's like a new generation of feminists because they are Dads and they have daughters. They realize, "Oh my god, my daughter is going to grow up in a world that's not fair." What happens to these Dad feminists is, because they are men, they want to be experts in feminism all of a sudden. So what's coming is like a lot of guys telling me, especially you know, in my field, like, comedy, you know, they just come up to me not only to tell me like, “oh I heard your joke. Maybe you should do it differently. I have an advice.” And I say, “Thank you. I will not do it that way.” And then they can just sort of continue and going on, “Yeah. You know this thing about you know how tough it is to women in comedy. I think the problem is that you don't take enough space. You know you should just be out there more and I think it's the way you make your jokes, you should just write less jokes.” Sometimes it’s, you know, “you should write more jokes” or “you should improvise more,” “you should improvise less.” And so it’s like “OK great. You know what, it's actually you know, you guys are the problem because you make this into a sexist where women don't want to be, with your mansplaining.”

CO: I think that my co-host is someone who actually is a pretty good guy. And so I think I’ve just teased him into doing a mansplaining schtick. But anyway, Moa, it's great to talk to you. And thanks for your hotline.

MS: Yes. So good to talk to you and bye bye, take care.

JD: Moa Svan is a stand-up comedian who was answering phones last week for a "mansplaining" hotline in Sweden. She was in Kungsbacka.

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Part 2: Chicago violence: congress, Ironman winner

Chicago violence: congress

Guest: Danny Davis

JEFF DOUGLAS: On Friday, Javon Wilson became the seven-hundred-and-first homicide victim in Chicago this year. Among the 701 killed, an overwhelming number were shot. The majority were black, many of them were young. Javon was just fifteen years old. He was shot to death in his home. Police have charged two people in connection with his murder: a 16-year-old boy, and a 17-year-old girl. Danny Davis has been the U.S. Representative for Illinois's 7th congressional district for nearly 20 years. Javon Wilson was his grandson. We reached Congressman Davis in Chicago.

CAROL OFF: Congressman Davis, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

DANNY DAVIS: Well, thank you very much. The expressions of condolences and sympathy that have come from all over and all kinds of people and the display of interest. I mean I have been very pleased to know that all kinds of people from every stripe and every walk of life — Democrats, Republicans, gun-lovers, gun-haters — all kinds of people have expressed an interest. I'm hoping that the interest will generate into something that will help reduce the level of gun violence that we are experiencing in many places throughout the nation. So I'm heartened by that, although I feel miserable in terms of having lost my grandson.

CO: How’s your family dealing with this, how’s your son who was the dad?

DD: They are not doing well. I'm doing alright. But my son, Javon's mother, his sisters and brothers are not doing well because the three children were in the home at the time — the youngest being 8 years old, then a 14-year-old, and my granddaughter is 16 years old. So they're taking it pretty hard, pretty hard.

CO: When you say they were in the house, this is when these two teenagers, a boy and a girl, 16 and 17 years old, they entered your family's apartment where your grandson was with the other children, and that's where, allegedly, this shooting happened. What do police say was the motive for this boy shooting your grandson?

DD: Well the original motivation appears to have been a swapping game that they play, where I will swap you an item of clothing, for an item that you will swap me. There had been a swap of some gym shoes and a pair of slacks. And the young lady supposedly decided that she wanted her gym shoes back. And he said, OK, bring my slacks and you know, we’ll trade. So a little argument got started and the young fella ended up with a gun and as the little friction was occurring, he then shot my grandson in the neck.

CO: Your grandson was shot for a pair of running shoes...

DD: Yup… so it all happened so quickly and so out of character. All of the other family members — my son says, "you know, I was supposed to have been taking Javon to get his haircut and I didn't get there in time." His mother had just gone to the store to pick up some food and had only been gone for 10 or 15 minutes. Of course, her feeling is, "Oh, if I had not gone out of the house at that moment I would have been there." And so, all of these feelings. But they are receiving counseling through not only the Chicago Police Department but also through other social service agencies.

CO: But as a congressman who has yourself penned legislation to prevent gun violence is also if only the boy hadn’t had a gun. How did he get the gun?

DD: That, nobody seems to know, and that is obviously a big question. How does a 16-year-old get a gun? Where do they get the gun from? Who provides the gun? I mean, there seems to be so many guns on the street and just in people's possessions — many of whom should not have a gun. That's why I think we need to strengthen our gun laws so that we can reduce the numbers of guns that are just floating around in our society and especially in inner city communities.

CO: These two kids who were involved with the shooting, the boy and the girl, there are understandably shocked that this happened. The girl says she wasn’t responsible, the mother of the boy says that he told her, “Mama, I was there, I wish I wasn’t. It wasn’t even my shoes.” I know you have been, elsewhere, you have shown some empathy for the families of these two young people. What do you have to say about them?

DD: I think they are in a kind of denial, and they would hate to think or believe that their children would be engaged in such behaviour, but I think one of the big needs that we have, especially for young parents, who have not had parenting guidance and direction coming from their own parents — I mean I've been a promoter of parenting programs, but I'm going to renew my focus on parenting help for young parents who just need to have a better understanding of the time, energy and effort that it takes to bring children up and share with them certain kinds of values that I think will be helpful in this process.

CO: I just want to ask you finally, about your grandson, about Javon. How will you remember him?

DD: I’m going to remember him, and I was just thinking earlier. He was a mischievous kind of young person. For example, we might be driving in the car or something, and he and his brother and sister might be pinching each other or doing something. And often times he would be at the base of that. But also he loved basketball. He was a basketball fan, knows every player almost in the league. What they play, where they play. And he was into music. He liked rap. So he was just a solid, decent kid. Sophomore in high school. His grades began to pick up. And my son was just telling me a week or so ago how proud and pleased he was that Javon was improving. Oftentimes, you know on Sundays, is when I would usually see them just the typical kind of thing. We'd go to church we maybe stop and have something to eat. We might go shopping, and we'd spend a lot of time, he would, in the store looking at. I`d finally have to say, ``come on kids, I don't have all day. Let`s get out of and dodge. [Sound: laughs]. I got other work to do.” Well he was a fun, funny kind of kid. Everybody will miss him. I'm going to miss him. Like I say, my son is very very distraught. So it's going to take them a while. In the meantime, I'm going to try and use as much of my time, energy and effort as I can to help find solutions or at least directions to try and reduce the level of violence.

CO: Congressman Davis, I’m so sorry once again, but I appreciate you telling us about Javon. Thank you.

DD: Thank you very much, it’s a pleasure.

CO: Take care, bye bye.

DD: Bye bye.

JD: We reached Congressman Danny Davis in Chicago. On Friday, Congressman Davis’ fifteen-year-old grandson, Javon Wilson, was shot to death in his home. Two teens have been charged in his killing. They had allegedly been arguing over running shoes. Javon was the 701st homicide in Chicago this year.

[Music]

Ironman winner

Guest: Lionel Sanders

JD: It's one of the most grueling events on the planet. And last weekend, Windsor, Ontario's Lionel Sanders was crowned king of the Ironman Triathlon. He cycled, swam, and ran to a new world record at a race in Arizona. And it’s all the more incredible given what he had to overcome to get there. We reached Lionel Sanders in Tempe, Arizona.

CO: Lionel, congratulations.

LIONEL SANDERS: Thank you very much.

CO: Wow. So this is nearly eight hours of biking, swimming and running?

LS: Indeed, yes. I wanted to do it as fast as I can, so I could be done as quick as I can.

CO: Well your "fast as you can" was a world record. Seven hours, 44 minutes, and 29 seconds.

LS: Yeah. It was a pretty amazing day. Something I certainly will never forget.

CO: How did it feel when you crossed that finish line?

LS: I mean, I love the sport: the sport changed my life, and continues to change my life. So, you know, to become part of history, it's something that I will cherish for the rest of my life. And you know, the announcer got the crowd all hyped up and everything — so it was hard to hear it was so loud. And someone handed me the Canadian flag as I was coming through. So I got to fly that proudly. I had tears coming down the cheeks and shivers down the spine. It was an amazing experience.

CO: In what way did the Ironman race change your life?

LS: I mean, I got into Ironman back in 2010. I was kind of a troubled young guy, abusing drugs and alcohol. And I kind of needed something to change my life, and I found out about the Ironman. It kind of just popped into my head. So I Googled it, and I found [out] it's this very extreme race: it's a 3.8km swim, to a 180km bike ride, to a marathon — a 42.2km run. And I thought to myself, "Wow that is amazing. I can't even fathom doing that. And so I figured if I enter this thing, one of these races, if I complete it, it will change my life. There's no way, I can continue to live this way, and yet complete this race.
So I signed up for the race and I trained for it really hard for the next 10 months. It was in Louisville, Kentucky, in August of 2010. And you know, when I first crossed the finish line, I was like, "Oh my God, that was the stupidest thing I've ever done. That was insane." But then, once I got some calories in me, and I got rested up a bit, then I was like, "Wow that was amazing." I couldn't even fathom doing it, even 20 miles into the marathon, I still couldn't fathom finishing — it was just so hard. And there was just something about it that I found very very intriguing. It just felt so far removed from everyday life. That’s kind of how I got hooked on it.

CO: And so that was in 2010. How old were you then?

LS: I was 22.

CO: So you're 28 now, and you've done it. You`ve got yourself built up for this. Let's just go through the three stages of it. You start off with the swim. How did you do in that swim?

LS: It was my career-best swim. It was actually so good, I thought that I had taken a wrong turn, because usually I'm behind the chase pack, so I had to sort of turn around and do backstroke for a second to look, because I thought, "Where is everyone?" And interestingly as well, I know a lot of these guys who I`m racing, so I came out of the water, one of the guys took a double look at me because he`s not used to seeing me. And he actually said to me as we were running to our bikes, Wow, you had a good swim.” And so that sort of set the tone for the day, right there.

CO: So then you jumped on your bike, and the swim, we should say, is 2.4 miles [3.86 kilometres]. Then you jumped on your bike which is a 112-mile [180 kilometre] bike trek ahead of you. And you did that in four hours, four minutes, and 38 seconds.

LS: Yes. Once again, it was my career-best: power output, as well as time, as well as speed. But I knew, it’s a very long bike ride. But I knew it's a very long bike ride, and I just kept sort of repeating that in my head like, "An Ironman's a long way. Just be patient. Be patient."

CO: So you're second and then you got into the run. How long is the run that you had to do at the end of this?

LS: The run is a marathon, a full marathon. So 26 miles.

CO: Good heavens.

LS: It's a little bit unfathomable, even for myself, you know, training for this thing. You can't think about it too much, like, 'cause you'll go crazy if you actually try and sort of comprehend beforehand what you are or what you're going to achieve, the distance you’re going to cover.

CO: And so you did your full marathon — at the end of having done 112 miles on a bike, and the swim — you did the full marathon in two hours, 42 minutes, 31 seconds. That's an enviable marathon time.

LS: That's also my best marathon time as well.

CO: Was there any point in the course of all this — these eight hours — that there was a low point when you thought, ‘cause you say that you just, you don’t know until you’re in it if you’ve got it. Was there a point when you thought, “Ooh, maybe I can’t do it.”

LS: Yes very low. I got very low. I felt pretty good for the first, I would say, 15 miles of the run. And then at about 17 miles, I really started to hit the wall pretty hard, and I knew at that point that I was on pace to break the record time. But I was hurting so bad I slowed by probably about 30 seconds per mile. And I basically threw in the towel. I was like, "You know, the time's great and everything, but you're not going to be able to achieve it. Seven hours 48 minutes — that'll be a great time too. There's no shame in that. And I basically went down that pathway for four or five miles. And my fiancé ran to the 23-mile mark, and met me there, and was like, "You're still on pace, but you have to pick it up! You have to give everything you've got for the next three miles!" And I don't know what it was, but she got through to me, I said to myself, like, "You are going to regret this so much if you don't pick it up right now, and give it everything you've got for the next three miles. I actually was able to get back down those 30 seconds-per-mile faster for the next three miles. It was by far the most I’ve ever suffered in a race.

CO: It's just an absolutely remarkable story in every way — including how you got into it. If anyone wanted to do this, if they thought, OK, I think that’s what I’m going to pursue, can you give your secret? What do you have to do? What do you have to have in your psyche and in your body in order to do this?

LS: Sure. I think the biggest thing that I have had, that I have been doing rather… I really try and cultivate love for what I am doing and a passion for what I'm doing. And the day-to day-training, I don't dread it. I love every minute of it. But I always try and put into perspective of just how much of a privilege this is — just to have use of your body, so I always cultivate that and so, you know that brings a certain level of awareness and presence to my day-to-day training, which allows me to push my limits.

CO: Lionel, you're an inspiration.

LS: Well thank you, I appreciate it.

CO: Well, thank you. Nice to speak with you.

LS: Yes, you as well, thank you.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: We reached Lionel Sanders in Tempe, Arizona. And if you know anyone who might like to hear that, you can share it with them .It’s on our website, cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Rooster caught

JD: He was a fugitive, wanted by the law. His only hope was the one man… the one hero… who could bring him alive.
That hero is Frank Cantone, who runs the St. Louis Chicken Rescue. The fugitive is a rooster who had been terrorizing a Pittsburgh neighbourhood for years. And the third guy in this story is Henry Gaston, whose property the rooster lived on.
A judge told Mr. Gaston he had to do something about the rooster, which a) was illegal in Pittsburgh, and b) made loud rooster sounds all the time. Mr. Gaston said the rooster wasn't his, and also he couldn't catch it. He had done all he could, though: as he told the judge, "As soon as I go to approach him, he runs.”
Now frankly, I question Mr. Gaston's rooster-catching skills. I do not Frank Cantone's. Mr. Cantone He travelled from St. Louis, Missouri to Pittsburgh – a nine-hour drive – to save the bird. And he did it, but it wasn't easy.
He arrived in Pittsburgh on Saturday night. Checked out the scene near Mr. Gaston's property. Turned to the assembled reporters and said, "He's watching" – he meant the rooster. And the search began, and ended, when they found the rooster in the tree where he always slept. Although they couldn't actually catch him, because he kept going higher and higher. They gave up for the night.
But Rudy – the rooster is called Rudy – couldn't run forever. Here's what it sounded like when Mr. Cantone caught him the next day.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: yelling]

VOICES: Get him, get him!

[Sound: clucking, screaming]

FRANK CANTONE: OK, calm down.

JD: Horrendous. Now, Rudy the rooster has been safely transported back to the St. Louis Chicken Rescue. The Pittsburgh neighbourhood can sleep soundly. And Frank Cantone, well, his motto is "no harm – plenty of fowl."

Back To Top »

Part 3: Alberta: Jason Kenney, Turkey child sex assault bill, Idaho bridge survivor

Alberta: Jason Kenney

Guest: Stephen Carter

JD: Jason Kenney wants to unite Alberta's right. But first, he's going to have to cough up a five thousand dollar fine, payable to his own party association.
At a meeting last week in Edmonton where PC delegates were being selected, Mr. Kenney's campaign was nearby in a hospitality suite, offering up free food and drinks. And the party association says that was, "obviously meant to sway voters.” It’s also against the rules.
Earlier this month, his former leadership opponent, Sandra Jansen accused Mr. Kenney's supporters of harassing her at a PC conference in Red Deer. That, according to Ms. Jansen, is what pushed her to exit the race, and cross the floor to the NDP.
Stephen Carter ran Ms. Jansen's campaign – and before that, the campaign of former Premier Alison Redford. We reached Mr. Carter in Calgary.

CAROL OFF: Mr. Carter how would you describe Jason Kenney's campaign style.

STEPHEN CARTER: Well it certainly is very aggressive. It's aggressive both in its one-to-one techniques as well as kind of its overall messaging in the way that it's approaching the PC leadership.

CO: I think Sandra Jansen who's left the leadership campaign and joined the NDP now, she said extremists have taken over. Would you call him an extremist?

SC: Well I'm not sure where he is. I mean I guess in some ways you could judge the person by the type of people that are attracted to him. We certainly were accosted by a number of people who were Jason Denney’s supporters that were extremists for sure.

CO: And what did they do? This is something that happened earlier this month at the Progressive Conservative policy convention in Red Deer. What happened there?

SC: They really got into Senator Jansen’s face and pushed really hard. And at one point I actually got up out of my seat thinking that we were about to have a physical confrontation, which is something I think has never happened to me before in politics. And then even myself, I certainly had a number of people I just had to tell them to back off and to give me back my space. We were disagreeing on an issue and I'd prefer that you just go and vote for the other guy. Just a lot easier if they go away rather than try and convince me that you know, Senator Jensen’s positions on LGBTQ youth are incorrect.

CO: And do you know for a fact that they were Jason Kenney's people?

SC: Oh, in fact, one of Jason Kenney’s top organizers went out and talked to them. They were working Jason Kenney’s table. One of the top organizers went out and said, “You can't say that in public.” What the other person was saying about LGBTQ youth.

CO: Ms. Jensen said that it was bullying, harassment, intolerance and misogyny.

SC: Well I'm less equated with misogyny side of it. I think that when a person is chasing the candidate down the hall, yelling that she's a baby killer because she doesn't want to reopen the discussion on abortion, there's something wrong in Canadian politics. It is not a question that's being opened and discussed in any of our political systems right now.

CO: Well I think that her reference to misogyny might have been because apparently the C word… somebody wrote that on her nomination papers.

SC: Yeah. It was that and “I hope you die” was also written onto it. I mean it was it was extreme, Carol. I've worked in this business for a long time and never seen anything quite like that. I mean especially in a leadership where ultimately you're trying to bring people back together to all support the party. This was a situation where someone was very clearly being driven out of the party.

CO: The latest is at the delegate selection meeting. Can you tell us what happened there? Why did Mr. Kenney get fined?

SC: Well Mr. Kenney was… every candidate signs a pledge of good behavior. And as part of that pledge it says that you will not campaign in certain areas, in certain places. Much the same way that none of us go to a polling station when elections are held. We're not supposed to go to a delegate selection meeting and campaign or pressure or sway voters. And Mr. Kennedy ignored that and then played ignorant as though he hasn't been running in professional politics for 20 years, where he doesn't go to the polling station and try to influence votes. But he did at this delegate selection meaning. He broke the rules. The party fined him five thousand dollars for breaking the rules.

CO: The other thing about the fine is that there is a quote or a comment from Mr. Kenney’s organizer, who said the fine of only $5000 would not be a deterrent. They said that they could afford that. What do you make of that?

SC: There's a certain mindset that it doesn't matter what rules you break as long as you win. And there's a number of organizers that are engaged on Jason Kenney’s team that kind of exemplify that. If you break the rules a little bit and you have to pay a $5000 fine. Well, in the overall scheme of things, that's not a big deal. And you have to keep in mind that Jason Kenney has raised a lot of money. He set up a for-profit corporation to raise money before the leadership. He said that he had raised a half million dollars via that corporation. Unfortunately none of us will be able to audit it or really understand how much money he did raise.

CO: The business of having these kinds of receptions, or having a hospitality suite. I mean this isn't… he didn't invent that. That's part of politics, in Alberta, and elsewhere. That's how things get done that that's how you socialize and influence. He's trying to win and he says the rules were vague.

SC: Well the rules aren't vague, actually. He's interpreting them as vague. In fact every leadership candidate had a hospitality suite at the PC party policy convention where Ms. Jansen was harassed. Of course that was well within the rules, and that is in fact how you sway voters and win people over. Well when the rules expressly prohibit you from being in the polling station or at the meeting that's where things have gone too far.

CO: Mr. Kenney is in this to win. He has a vision, he wants to unite the right. He wants to get Wildrose and the Progressive Conservatives in the same tent. He wants to win back Alberta for conservatives. Does he have a lot of support in that?

SC: Oh he certainly has a lot of support in that. The Wildrose members, a number of them have left the party and joined the PCs to try and bring people together under the right wing party. Unfortunately I don't think he has a particularly good sense of what Alberta voters want. Alberta voters have elected the NDP in 2015, and before that they elected Alison Redford, a campaign that I was involved in. They've chosen a more centrist option for almost a decade, if not 15 years. Even Ralph Klein, he was behaving far more like a centrist than a true conservative.

CO: But if Mr. Kenney is being aggressive and being pushy, that's his style of politics. If it works, if it wins him the leadership, if it wins the conservatives, the government, is it not worth it?

SC: Well I think you’ve added an absolute salient point there, and that is if it wins the government. Politics is ultimately that the business of bringing people together not pushing people apart, and Jason Kennie's activities and tactics are pushing people apart within his own party. Forget about the voters themselves. My fear is that he's going to build a coalition that will have no ability to govern because he won't be able to get enough people to vote for him. And that seems to be the technique and tactic that he's most comfortable with at this time.

CO: Well some of the same strategies and points of view helped Mr. Trump in the United States to win.

SC: Trump played a tremendous us-versus-them game and us-versus-them is very popular. The problem is where do you draw the line on us-versus-them? If you draw the line and you're 20 percent and the other side is 80 percent, then you're not going to win. Unless, and in Trump's case, 46 percent of the population doesn't vote. Well I suppose that's the type of calculation that Jason Kenny may be making.

CO: Mr. Carter, thank you.

SC: Thank you very much.

JD: Stephen Carter is an Alberta PC strategist. He was running Sandra Jansen's leadership campaign before Sandra Jansen dropped out of the race. We reached Stephen Carter in Calgary. We did also request an interview with Alberta PC leadership candidate Jason Kenney. We did not receive a response from his campaign before we went to air.
Today, Sandra Jansen stood up in the Alberta Legislature for the first time as a member of the Alberta NDP. Here’s what she had to say. And just a head’s up, there's some strong language in what you're about to hear.

SOUNDCLIP

SANDRA JANSEN: What a traitorous bitch.”
“You are both a disgrace to Alberta, lying bitches.”
“Now you have two blond bimbos in a party that is clueless.”
“Another useless tit goes NDP.”
“Dead meat.”
“Sandra should stay in the kitchen where she belongs.”
“Fly with the crows and get shot.”
“Dumb broad. A good place for her to be is with the rest of the queers.”
Mr. Speaker, today I rise to make a simple request of my colleagues. To all of the honourable colleagues in this house: if you are stunned by the words you have heard in the last few days, if you reject the inherent violence behind them and you know that harassment and abuse, even if it’s verbal, even if it’s online, and even if it’s directed at a political opponent is poison, let us be strong and clear in our resolve that no matter where we sit along political lines, we stand together against this.
In our words, in our actions every day from all sides if we don’t feed it, we must oppose it. Please oppose it. Don’t ignore it. Don’t look the other way. Don’t excuse it. Our daughters are watching us. They are watching the challenges facing women in politics today. Imagine if we let that poison become normalized or if our daughters forgo the political arena altogether. That scares me.
I am so proud to have joined a pragmatic centrist government which has a place for moderate women. Together we will fight for women. We will fight against this language of harassment and violence, and I hope everyone in this house fights it, too. Thank you.

[Sound: applause]

JD: That was Sandra Jansen, speaking for the first time in the Alberta Legislature today as an Alberta NDP MLA. That was from today. She crossed the floor last week.

[Music]

Iron Man obit

JD: About 15 minutes ago on the program, we spoke with Lionel Sanders' triumph in the Ironman Triathlon in Arizona over the weekend. Another certified Canadian Ironman was in the news this week, for an altogether different reason.
Colin Hackett was an Alberta triathlete who wrote a popular blog about how he used the sport to get in shape. But when his life changed, so did the theme of his writing -- from working out, to fighting and living with bowel cancer.
Colin Hackett died on Sunday. He was thirty-five years old. In 2015, he spoke with Mark Connolly, the host of CBC Radio's "Edmonton AM". Here's part of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK CONNOLLY: You started your blog out because you were a big guy, 325 pounds when you started looking to train for –

COLIN HACKETT: Yeah I was an offensive lineman with the Bears, going to university and just, you know in the search of health, got into triathlon. Through a little turn of events playing men’s league hockey, I turned my ankle, started swimming to keep in shape, and discovered I loved it, and sort of the rest is history as they say.

MC: So you lost a lot of weight a lot.

CH: Lots.

MC: But you did your triathlons at a pretty large size too, didn't you? Yeah I did my first half marathon at 300 pounds and my first Ironman at 285. That's amazing, to say the least. And then you turned your blog into, I guess more about the challenge you're facing. Now how people reacted to it? Very positively. It's really a funny… “cancer” the word is a very funny thing. It can make people shake and it drives people away, and that's one of the things I'm trying to take away is get the stigma off just the word “cancer.” Being in conversation with a really good friend, and there will be nobody else around and they’ll whisper “cancer.” It's really… it's an unfortunate thing that we can't have an open dialogue about cancer.
Honestly my wife described it best. We've been talking obviously quite a bit about this and she said we lost our innocence. I had a good friend that refereed hockey pass away after a hockey game, heart just gave up. This is not a… we're not guaranteed anything, but we sort of float through the life in happy Canada with a seventy eight year old life expectancy and we sort of, you know, don't realize how quickly can all go away. And the number of people I've talked to, that cancer is the best thing that ever happened to them, is insane. It wakes them up. They do more with their lives. And then, when they they beat it, they've done so much more than they ever would have done without cancer.

JD: That was Canadian triathlete Colin Hackett speaking to Mark Connolly, the host of Edmonton AM, in 2015. Colin Hackett died of cancer on Sunday. He was 35.

[Music]

Turkey child sex assault bill

Guest: Feyze Altun

JD: Turkey was poised to pass a law that would have given amnesty to some men convicted of raping underage girls. The bill would have suspended the sentences of men convicted of child sex assault, should their victims consent to marriage. It was put forward by the ruling Justice and Development Party. Now though, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has backed down, withdrawing the draft law. Feyza Altun is a lawyer. We reached her in Istanbul.

CO: Ms. Altun, why has the Turkish government agreed to withdraw this bill on child sexual assault?

FA: OK. Because this society has reacted too much to a dress code because it has been perceived as a remission of punishment by society and they think that the rapers, sexual abusers will be free again. So they reacted to it and Mr. President Erdogan, the government has considered the criticism. So the code is being withdrawn. And also there is an association established by Erdogan’s daughters, which is called KADEM, has also reacted to the code. So the big part of the society don't want such a code.

CO: And how much did the president's daughter influence things? She was very opposed to this law. How important was she to having this law canceled?

FA: I don't think she was an important subject. Society has reacted to this. So the other one so that the country doesn't want this. So they also started to react and Erdogan has reacted. For example yesterday we had been reacting to this like three days ago. I have been posting stuff. I have been tweeting on Twitter, Instagram. I was online, on television, that this is very dangerous because we have to prevent children marriages. In Turkey, children marriages are very common but we cannot legalize these marriages by making this kind of laws. We have to say that under 18 years old, any kids under 18 years old cannot get married. This is so simple.

CO: We understand that one in three marriages in Turkey involves someone under the age of 18.

FA: Yeah. Unfortunately our society sees this very normal but maybe a hundred years ago, maybe this was long ago, but we are in 2016 now. Everything has changed. Girls and boys are getting educated, going to universities. And 14 years old girl or boy is a kid.

CO: In this case, this bill would also have pardoned about 3000 men who are in prison because they had married the girl whom they sexually assaulted or raped and they said they had the girl's consent. So this law would have given them a pardon. Why was this?

FA: This is not every pardon, because it’s saying this. If a decision isn't made yet, there will be remission of punishment. If there was a decision, there will be stay of execution. So if they get the worse, the punishment will be executed. So if they're not pardoned actually but you know by the society, people think that abusers will be pardoned. But there are two parts of this code – remission of punishment, stay of execution.

CO: For men who have raped girls and then the family agreed to have the girl marry the man, what was this law going to do for those men?

FA: Those men are legally sexual abusers who had an intercourse with kids under 15 years old. In our country, maybe families can let their daughters marry with the religious marriage by the age of 14. When this girl gets pregnant, they go to hospital for the birth. The doctor has to report to police if they see an under-aged girl pregnant. So they say maybe she is raped. Probably she was raped, and they called the police. Police comes and it turns into a case but the families let them married. But in this situation we call this man an abuser. So they are in jail. This code is for them. So this is why our government says that so many families are in a bad situation because women with children are at home. Men are in jail. The thing is, if you say this, people think that children marriage is normal. It's not normal. But they say this is not rape. This is a real marriage, they say. But they say if this is made by a forced deception or threat they will not be released. If you have a kid that you would say that, I consent to this she would say that I consent to this.

CO: Because she is a child, she's going to say she consented because her family wants her to.

FA: Sure. And in this country if for example if there's a rape and the girl is pregnant, families make them marry. Families make these girls marry. So how can we know that she really consented to that? You never know.

CO: So this law would have helped those men. And it also would have allowed for child marriages to continue and this is… now this law is not going to be on the books. Is that right?

FA: Yeah. This is very dangerous. I hope it never passes. You know in Turkey, I love my country, I love my people, but we should stop children marriage.

CO: All right. Well we will be following what happens with this law. And Ms. Altun, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

FA: Thank you. I thank you for calling.

CO: Good night.

FA: Good night.

JD: Feyza Altun is a lawyer. She was in Istanbul.

[Music]

Idaho bridge survivor

Guest: Steven Arrasmith

JD: He got hit by a car and flung over a bridge into freezing cold water. That was the kind of Monday Steven Arrasmith had. We reached Mr. Arrasmith in a hospital bed in Boise, Idaho.

CO: Steven I understand you've had some surgery on your leg. How are you feeling now?

STEVEN ARRASMITH: I'm feeling all right. You know, surgery went great, surgery went well. They installed a metal rod in my leg, but other than that you know everything's fine and well.

CO: Can you take us back to yesterday and tell us what happened on the Snake River Bridge. Why did you stop first of all?

SA: Well first of all, traffic was slowing down and started getting over and this was on an interstate highway. I was like OK well something’s going on… there's an accident or something. Well I'm First Aid certified and I also, you know, have CPR certification so I get up to about 15 yards from this other vehicle and it’s stopped in the middle of the lane with its hazards on.

CO: So this was… you were on the bridge when this happened, is that right?

SA: Yes. Yes.

CO: What did you do in order to see if people were all right in the other vehicle?

SA: I got out of the vehicle and started walking towards it. My hazards were on. Nobody was behind me. Then all of a sudden I heard a car walk up their brakes and saw them slam into the back of my vehicle.

CO: We should just tell people it was it was pretty icy on that bridge, was it not?

SA: You know I didn't slip when I got out, but there was ice in spots. Yes.

CO: And then what happened?

SA: Well when they slammed into the back of that vehicle, the vehicle shot into the cement barrier, bounced off the cement barrier, and then hit me in the left side. And it caused me to go over the bridge.

CO: Over the side of the bridge.

SA: Yes.

CO: And right down? Where did you land?

SA: Basically I kind of flipped over the barrier was the way it happened. I tried to catch you know the barrier and hold the barrier for about five ten seconds, and when it slipped, I lost, you know, I couldn't… I lost my grip. I couldn't keep my grip. I ended up falling into the river below.

CO: Let's just sum up what was going on at that point. You've been hurt. How badly had you been hurt when the vehicle ran into you?

SA: By this time, by the time I'm already in the water, I think I've broken my leg, because my leg was broken by the time I was in the water.

CO: And so you've gone… but you've gone over into the water, and how far is that fall?

SA: You know the papers down here say 50 ft. I've heard between 30 ft. But I tend to believe what law enforcement, you know their estimation is, and they estimated it at 50 feet.

CO: OK. And what was the condition of the water? What's the temperature out there?

SA: Well the temperature when I got out of the vehicle was 36° Fahrenheit, which that's one degree Celsius Canadian?

CO: Yeah it’s just above zero, just above freezing.

SA: Yeah just about freezing. I think the water in the river was actually warmer than it was on the outside.

CO: What did you do?

SA: Well at that point, you know as I fell, I kept looking to the east, oh not the east to the west, which is towards Ontario Oregon. So I kept I kept a bearing on which side of the river is which. And then I started to swim towards the Oregon side. ‘Cause I was closer to the Oregon side.

CO: Did anyone know you were in the water at that point, the people on the bridge?

SA: I don't think anybody knew I was in the water at that point. But law enforcement ended up showing up they showed up within five minutes of the accident. By the time they showed up, I was already on shore, and I called for them, and as I called out “Help,” they started communicating back with me because they were trying to find me.

CO: How difficult was it to swim with your leg in that condition?

SA: The funny thing is, you know, when I got closer to shore, you know, where I could actually like grab and touch, you know, I looked at my leg, you know, ‘cause I kind of did almost like a backstroke. I looked at my leg and you know I kicked my legs. The tops of my legs were moving. But the bottom of my left leg wasn't, it was just kind of dangling. So I knew it was broken.

CO: But you still were able to kick enough to get to shore.

SA: Well I had to ditch… I was wearing an army field jacket. I had to ditch that because it was so heavy and it was slowing me down in the river. You know I held on to it but I used it to kind of pull me in towards shore you know, get extra momentum.

CO: Boy it sounds like you really… you kept your cool or at least kept your head during all of this and you were pretty cool already but you figured out how you had to do this, even though you must have… someone else might have panicked.

SA: Yes, I kept my cool the whole time. And I kept my cool because, you know, I have a seven month old son at home. That's what… that's what the most important thing was, is going home to my son.

CO: Were you thinking about that little boy the whole time?

SA: Yes.

CO: What's his name.

SA: Asher.

CO: Asher. And so now so the police found you, got to hospital, and you've had your surgery.

SA: Well it doesn't exactly roll out like that either. So meanwhile, come to find out when I got back for shore. I ended up swimming to an island one of the police officers after about 15 minutes finally found a way out to me and came across, you know, where he could, and got a wool blanket on me. My lips were turning blue. My face was turning blue, but that stopped it.

CO: You were out there on that little island for 15 minutes in the freezing weather after just having been in the water before you had any help.

SA: Yes.

CO: Wow.

SA: Well and that's not even the worst part about this. So for the first five minutes the only thing that was above water was my head. And that's from the time I fell to the bridge to the time I got to the island. But when I got to the island, I pulled as much of myself out of the body as I could because it was slick and it was wet. I ended up pulling myself on the shore where I couldn't get my feet and ankles out of the water so my feet ankles stayed in the water even after the officer got there, for an hour it took an hour to get me off the island.

CO: And you were conscious through the whole thing. You never lost consciousness. So you think that that one day you'll have a story to tell that seven month old when he's a bit older, when you can tell him what happened that day?

SA: Oh yeah you'll know because you'll find out how dad got a rod in his leg. That's something I'm not going to hold from him.

CO: He’ll also know what got you through, which was thinking about him.

SA: Exactly. Exactly.

CO: Steven I'm glad you're OK, and thank you for telling us this story.

SA: Well you're welcome, anytime. And thank you guys. You guys are awesome.

CO: Take care of yourself.

SA: I will. Thank you. Go Blue Jays.

[Sound: Carol laughs]

CO: Thank you.

SA: All right, bye bye.

CO: Bye.

JD: We reached Steven Arrasmith at the hospital in Boise, Idaho. Yesterday, Mr. Arrasmith was struck by a car, dangled from a bridge, then fell from the bridge fifteen metres – that's fifty feet – into a frigid river.

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Nov. 22, 2016 episode transcript

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