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The Current Transcript for March 10, 2016

Host: Anna Maria Tremonti

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Listen to the full episode

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

[cheering and clapping]

VOICE 1: The leader of the opposition.

VOICE 2: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance has stated their government will be smarter and watch every dollar spent.

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: It is all money and politics right now in the legislature of Newfoundland and Labrador. As a former Conservative Premier, now leader of the opposition, manoeuvers to hold a new Liberal Government to account, even as the new Finance Minister is quick to blame that former government for much of the province's problems. And what problems they are. Billions of oil revenue evaporating and a potential for deficit and debt at numbers this province has never seen. In a moment, we hear from Finance Minister, Cathy Bennett. Also today, when the residents of Little Bay Islands cast their votes on whether to move the whole community to the mainland, they sealed their fate, and not in the way they expected.

SOUNDCLIP

It sucks the life out of the community whether it happens or not, it still sucks the life out of the community and kills it.

AMT: In half an hour, Mary Lynk brings us the story of the death of an outport, and they’re successful now but back in the early days, St John's indie band Hey Rosetta! relied on cultural grants to

ignite their careers.

SOUNDCLIP

TIM BAKER: We've definitely, you know, I think given back to the economy here. You know, in terms of the people that we employ and the taxes that we pay them has definitely paid for itself, that investment in us.

AMT: Hey Rosetta! front man, Tim Baker joins me in an hour to talk about the economic benefits of Newfoundland and Labrador’s cultural community. And he plays a brand new song you'll hear for the first time right here. I’m Anna Maria Tremonti in St John's. This is a special edition of The Current.

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N.L. needs $15.4B by 2020 to get out of deficit, says finance minister

Guests: Cathy Bennett

[high winds blowing, clanging metal, birds cawing]

AMT: The wind is powerful up around the provincial legislature. The flag snapping, the ropes clanging relentlessly against the aluminum

poles. We’re high above the city here. Across the way, Signal Hill rises up and the narrows of St. John's Harbour shimmer a brilliant blue. Inside, the quiet is deceptive because just to the left along a nondescript corridor, Cathy Bennett is in yet another meeting.

[voices in background]

AMT: She is the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister of Finance who entered politics just two years ago after a career creating and running a successful collection of businesses, from a string of McDonald's franchises, to a commercial real estate firm, to a construction company. But, if she has been celebrated for her business smarts, she's being watched now for her business solutions to what her government has called an unprecedented fiscal solution, which really means the rapid and frightening return of hard times. We met in her boardroom yesterday. Thank you for taking the time, I’m Anna Maria.

CATHY BENNETT: It’s been a busy couple of weeks, busy 86 days, I think I said in a meeting earlier this morning.

AMT: So, you have inherited a massive problem. How serious is it?

CATHY BENNETT: It's unprecedented. Our province has never seen this type of borrowing requirement in our history and you know, the current deficit is pushing close to two billion dollars. Left unchecked, next year it'll move to 2.4 billion. It would require borrowing between now and 2020, 2021, about 54 billion dollars and for us, we don’t believe that's sustainable, and we have to do everything we can to create a credible plan to present to the people of the province and also to the bond rating agencies as well.

AMT: So, what will you do?

CATHY BENNETT: We're doing all kinds of things which would include looking at every expense that we have and how those expenses kind of divide into two areas of the things that we know we need to do, the government services that are critical for us to do, and the wants. I mean, there are some things that you know all governments, whether they're municipal, provincial, or federal, there are things you want to do and in our case we need to be very clear as to what those are, what our needs and wants are on the expense side, and we need to look at our revenue opportunities. The situation that we're in, we have a heavy reliance on oil royalties and that reliance in the last decade with the former administration that spent every penny of it, has left us in a situation very, very vulnerable. When oil prices, and production, and the US dollar impacts our oil royalty dollars, and as a result, you know we're going to have to look at both the revenue and the expense side, as well as the costs associated with managing our debt, how we borrow, where we borrow and making sure that we have all of the integrity in our borrowing program as precise as we can have it. So, we're not wasting one single penny that needs to go into critical services like health or education.

AMT: How much of the problem that you are in is directly related to oil and other natural resources?

CATHY BENNETT: Well, I mean the former administration, when it announced its budget last year, had planned a deficit of over 900 million dollars at that time. That's on two consecutive years, you know prior to that of half a billion dollar deficits or more in those three years. And oil in those last three years, was 100 dollars, 100 hundred dollars and then last year, may have been in the sixties. The problem is that the spending and coupled with the volatility of oil has really created a circumstance that's very unique for our province. It's going to require not just quick reactions, but very thoughtful reactions because we also have an economy that is being impacted by the change in oil price because we have many Newfoundlanders who work not only in our own offshore oil and gas industry, or mining industries, who are being affected locally by changes in investment related to minerals and oil prices. But, we have many that are also being employed in Western Canada and that is certainly creating very worrisome stories, impacting people's lives, that as the Finance Minister, it's important that as we make the decisions about what we do, that we're doing it in a balanced way based on fact, based on understanding those impacts on the people in our communities.

AMT: I want to ask you a little bit more about that because almost everyone I have spoken to in the last several days, people who are hurting and people who are anticipating trouble and aren't hurting yet, have said they hope that the people with control over finances be it business or government, will be compassionate. What do you say to that?

CATHY BENNETT: I say yes. You know, from my perspective as a Finance Minister and as a mom to kids, it is critically important for us to make sure that the decisions we make are made through the lens of how they impact people. Whether we look at revenue actions or we look at expense actions, every single decision we make, every single one is going to have an impact on the people of the province, on my neighbours, on my friends, on my family, on our government’s friends, and neighbours and family, and I think is important for us as we make those decisions, we make them based on what our Premier has said very clearly, based on evidence. And based on clear review of the facts, and that we also are very open and transparent with the people of the province. Not to, as former administrations have done, spin the story of our economy to their own political gain, but be very frank with our neighbours and our friends and say this is a situation that we are faced with, and that we are committed and we believe it's fixable, then prove to our neighbours and friends that we believe that we can fix it.

AMT: You believe the last government didn't do enough?

CATHY BENNETT: Absolutely. I mean, when you have oil royalties that represent more than 30 percent of your overall revenue and you don't create a legacy fund recognizing the volatility of oil price, oil production, US exchange, impact on our royalties, I think that's a real problem. You know, some would argue that, and the former administration has argued, that they made investments. Our position would be that you can only invest what you are guaranteed. If you're going to buy a house, you'd save up the money for the down payment and then you’d go out and buy the furniture after you've built the house. You wouldn't buy the furniture at the same time as you built the house. And this government, the situation we have inherited from the former government, we believe is a result of poor management in our mandate, and one that the people of the province gave us when we were elected on November 30^th, is on the promise of stronger leadership and better management.

AMT: That really talks about looking to the future as you look to the present and if you look at resource industries, oil especially, but others as well, they are known for their fluctuations. Is this an opportunity or a time also to look at a way to truly diversify Newfoundland’s economy so that you are not as reliant on those resources, which have been really a backbone?

CATHY BENNETT: Well, we've seen other provinces, for example Saskatchewan be celebrated for things that they've done to diversify their economy. In our province, while oil royalties have contributed a significant amount of money to the provincial coffers, it's about, I think it's three or four percent of the jobs, locally, that are directly derived off of the oil industry. For that type of an economy, it becomes very risky to not take advantage of opportunities like we have, and we have many. We have opportunities in the fishing industry, we have opportunities in forestry, agriculture, aquaculture, in information technology, all of those areas where we need to be more innovative in a broader sense, than focus very narrowly on an area where it can be very volatile because we don't control the price, and we'll never control the price. We have a responsibility to our kids, and to future generations to make sure that when we make decisions about what we spend as a government, we spend it responsibly looking at the future. But, we also have to understand that an economy that is built in a narrow way also puts people at a disadvantage and that's something that we can't continue to support, and we won't. We are looking to every opportunity to continue to diversify our economy with great entrepreneurs and great innovations, and I'm confident that we're going to see some things change in the next couple of years around that.

AMT: Are you also hoping that the price of oil goes up so that your royalties improve?

CATHY BENNETT: I think everybody hopes that oil royalties will go up, but hoping and dealing with reality are two different things. For me, as the Finance Minister, I feel a strong accountability to the people of province based on the reality we're facing today. To continue to have the conversations openly and frankly about the realities that we're faced with, there's no doubt that everybody hopes the oil price would go up. But even that would be a perpetuation of what got us here. To rely singularly on all of the revenue from future oil royalties, is still in denial about the problem that we're faced with today. This is a situation that was created because there was a dependency on oil realities and we can't be dependent, 100 percent dependent on 100 percent of those dollars anymore.

AMT: And there are those who also say that the days of fossil fuel reliance are limited and that is not going to be the new normal in the future, that there will be another normal and again, this might be a time to look in other places for different kinds of development.

CATHY BENNETT: Well, certainly we have developments, we have assets that we own currently in partnership with other provinces. We have Muskrat Falls that's currently under construction, we have Gull Island and other projects. Newfoundland Labrador has a vast array of resources, both natural, renewable, non-renewable, and our best resources is our people and I think there is an opportunity for us to continue to diversify not only what we sell to the global markets in oil and minerals, but also in hydro-electricity, and in innovation that comes from a population that weathers some tough stuff.

AMT: You have a reputation of being a smart, successful, businesswoman who really thought ahead with her companies in your previous life. For example, you were hiring older workers when other people were not. Are there insights that you have gleaned from your previous life that you can draw on now as you try to bring Newfoundland forward?

CATHY BENNETT: I would hope so. I mean, I've had some 30 years of experience in a wide variety of businesses, and I think for the situations that we're dealing with today, I really hope to use those skills to help my fellow Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Basic, fundamental things of how do we make sure that everybody can participate in the workforce, how can we make sure that no expense goes unreviewed, is that a reasonable expense, is it an expense that makes sense for today, and is it a dollar spent on something that's going to help somebody versus a dollar that's going to be spent and nobody's going to be accountable for it. I feel a huge sense of responsibility and accountability and I'm grateful for the experience I've had in all my businesses for the last 30 years to provide me a foundation to work with our very talented public sector employees, to be able to put a plan together which will bring us back to fiscal sustainability. That's the the hope and at the end of day I hope that's what will get done.

AMT: You've only been in politics a few years, am I right?

CATHY BENNETT: That’s right.

AMT: Did you know what you were getting into when you signed up for this?

CATHY BENNETT: I knew when I decided to enter politics, it was out of a very strong passion to give back to a community that had been very gracious and giving to me in my business enterprises and in my not-for-profit work and I thought it was important that I provide my skills in a different way. It’s a real privilege to represent the members, the people of the District of Windsor Lake and I certainly didn't anticipate that the situation would be as challenging as it is, but most people who know me very well, know that I don’t get scared off by challenges very easily.

AMT: What keeps you awake at night?

CATHY BENNETT: Oh, what keeps me awake at night is work [laughs] and trying to get as much done in a 24-hour day as I can to support the work that our government is doing and the work that we're doing to prepare for the budget. As a mom of two young boys, I worry that we must make changes to the way our provincial economy has been structured by the former administration over a decade, so that they have opportunities in real diverse ways to keep their talents here, to celebrate what living in Newfoundland Labrador is all about and I'm determined, as the Finance Minister, and as mom, to make sure that happens.

AMT: How old are your boys?

CATHY BENNETT: 17 and 12.

AMT: Do you fear that they're going to feel the need to go away the way generations before them went away and stayed away?

CATHY BENNETT: I think every parent in Newfoundland wears that worry as they tuck their kids in at night, but I'm also hugely optimistic about the opportunities for us to create opportunities for young people, and to create opportunities in a variety of ways that allow not only our own kids, but hopefully other kids, to come and live and work and raise their families in a province that, that's pretty cool for me.

AMT: Newfoundland was a have-not province for a very long time, it became a have province. How much of Newfoundland Labrador pride is caught up in what you face now?

CATHY BENNETT: I think there's a real--I'm really proud in the amount of people that have come out as part of our consultations on our governmental initiative. We have, under this initiative, we've engaged in a process that is allowing and encouraging and providing opportunities for people to participate in a large variety of ways. You know, meetings, and dialogue apps, and online emails, all kinds of ways, and we've had an unprecedented amount of engagement in that process. And I think that speaks to the commitment of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to solve our problems and to be accountable for what we're facing, and to be real, and to roll up our sleeves and work together and get things done. So, you know as much as the responsibility of the portfolios that I carry on behalf of this government, some weigh heavily on me. It is the pride and the commitment of the Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to get things done. That buoys me every single day and encourages me to you know, get up and get in and get it done. I am very confident that we will get it done. I'm looking forward to the opportunity to provide the budget in ’16-17 to the people of province with a clear path of what the target is going to be over the next couple of years, to hold ourselves accountable for that target, to communicate to our lenders and our investors, you know what our vision is around the fiscal reality of our province and how we're going to fix it. And, I'm very encouraged by the participation of my neighbours and my friends in the process. I don't expect that to change.

AMT: So, if I came back in a year, you'd be able to show me exactly what you've been doing to start to change this, it's very concrete in your mind?

CATHY BENNETT: Very much so and I would certainly welcome you to come back in a year to check in and see how we're doing.

AMT: What should I look for?

CATHY BENNETT: I think you should look for things like clear plans with targets. The fiscal situation that I deal with as the Finance Minister and present Treasury board responsible for what we spend, is one challenge. The second challenge, more importantly for us as a government, is the economy and how people's lives are being impacted not just by the decisions we make in dealing with our fiscal reality, but equally, and even more importantly, by the realities of the economy as a result of oil price. I think we can never let those two lose sight of each other. If we only focus on fixing the fiscal situation of the Treasury, then we risk not being respectful of our impact on the overall economy. So, it's a very delicate and very critical balancing act of how do we make sure that we make the decisions for Treasury in the context of making sure that we are supportive of the economic realities that we have in our economy. People need to be able to pay the bills, and they need to have jobs, and they need to have opportunities, and it's important for us to make sure that we keep those two priorities clearly in our minds.

AMT: Cathy Bennett, thank you for your time today.

CATHY BENNETT: It's a pleasure. Thank you for being here.

AMT: Cathy Bennett is the Minister of Finance. She's also the President of the Treasury Board in the Liberal Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. I spoke to her yesterday in her boardroom. If you missed our program yesterday and want to hear from Newfoundlanders who are feeling the hit of this poor economy, you can visit our website cbc.ca/thecurrent. Listen in on their stories. You can also download the current podcast cbc.ca/thecurrent. You can also weigh in by clicking the contact link right there or tweet us, we are @thecurrentcbc.

Back To Top »

Failed resettlement vote divides N.L.'s Little Bay Islands residents

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: Hello, I'm Anna Maria Tremonti in St John's, and you're listening to “The Rock and a Hard Place”, the second day of our special edition of The Current.

[Music: Theme]

AMT: Still to come, it's that time of the week when we check in on your feedback on the stories we've been following. I'll be joined by St John's morning show host Anthony Germain to help with that. Plus, it wouldn't be a trip to Newfoundland and Labrador without some music, and we have some live music on its way with Tim Baker, front man of the critically-acclaimed indie group Hey! Rosetta. But first, a community unsettled.

[Music: Theme]

AMT: Close your eyes and think of Newfoundland and Labrador, and you're likely to envisage a postcard picture of a quaint community, nestled in some coastal inlet. But compared with half-a-century ago, there are far fewer such living communities dotting the coastline here, with many long-since abandoned. The phenomenon dates back to the years between 1954 and 1975, when the government identified some 300 communities as having what it called, "no great future." Resettlement was the controversial answer to the problem, and during that period more than 28,000 people were moved. Resettlement is happening again today. The community of Little Bay Islands off the north coast of Newfoundland has voted on resettlement twice. In 2011, residents were offered compensation of $80,000 per household. More than half of them voted to leave, but they needed 90 per cent. Then the money was nearly tripled, to a minimum of $250,000 per household. Still, last November, the vote failed again, this time barely: 89.47 per cent voted for resettlement. Now, the Newfoundland and Labrador Government is reviewing its rules around resettlement, and the people of Little Bay Islands, once close, are now painfully divided. Here is our documentary, Death of an Outport, from CBC producer Mary Lynk.

[Music: Peaceful, Rustic Flute]

PERRY LOCKE: I think this place is doomed to destruction now; this just put the final nail in the coffin for me. It's just....the island was dying; this accelerated it, big time, since the relocation came to town. I've lost friends over it, I've lost close friends over it. But what can you do, you can't change it at the end of the day, as sad as it is. You can feel the tension all round. I mean, it's not everybody, but it's enough to make everything uncomfortable. It's just an uncomfortable situation, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

[Music Continues]

[Sound: indistinct announcer over boat intercom]

MARY LYNK: The Hazel McIssac Ferry makes its way through the cold Atlantic to Little Bay Islands. English Settlers first came to the Islands in the early 1800s; unable to resist its large, sheltered harbour, close to rich, fishing grounds. At its height, the once booming fishing community had a population of over 800. Today, in the dead of winter, only 47 call it home: mostly seniors. It now shares a ferry with another island community. I'm on the 9:00 boat. There's just two cars on board: mine and a truck with a sleeping young man at the wheel. I find out his name is Jason Earle. Turns out he's the island's only teacher slash principal.

JASON EARLE: I have two students over there. One's in Grade 10 and other one is in Grade 12.

MARY LYNK: I guess you don't have school dance, eh?

JASON EARLE: yeah, [laughs], no, no, no, we haven't had any school dances, we did try an assembly or a little Christmas Concert, it was just kind of a sing along thing, and I mean it gets the community out, and the kids enjoyed it, and I enjoyed it, so.

MARY LYNK: The nearly 28 million dollar ferry, shiny and well-equipped, has an almost empty ghostliness. We are the only people in the lounge that can accommodate 80.

MARY LYNK: What about this ferry, because right now, it’s just you and me on the ferry. Is it usually you by yourself at 9:00 in the morning?

JASON EARLE: Most days, yes, sometimes there's people coming over, but one or two other vehicles is the most I’ve seen on here, yeah.

MARY LYNK: For a ferry that can carry 16 cars.

JASON EARLE: Yeah, yeah, not a whole lot of traffic, no.

MARY LYNK: This is his first year teaching. He loves the job, but gave up living on the Island and now commutes from his larger hometown of Springdale. It has the nearest hospital, banking and grocery stores. About a 3 hour round trip. I'm curious what life was like when he was there full time.

JASON EARLE: It wasn't so bad when the days were a bit longer. Like, I didn't mind it in the fall. I had my dog with me, and we'd do a bit of hiking and I’d be out around, but when it started to get shorter days and everything, I just, there wasn't a whole lot to do out there,

MARY LYNK: Not an easy place to live full time when you’re only 26.

JASON EARLE: The average age out there is a fair bit, I guess, older than I am, so yah, I was really the only person my age out there, made it a bit difficult.

[Sound: ferry docking]

MARY LYNK: The ferry arrives at Little Bay, the main island. There's a further scattering of smaller ones off the coast. All undulating hills, thickly covered by green fir trees, dramatic coastlines, a landscape of staggering beauty surrounded by endless ocean. It's a rare day for this time of the year: light blue cloudless sky, bright sun, no snow falling, no wild winds, no impenetrable ice floes. It takes about five minutes, on curved roads, up and down, to arrive at the centre of town. Brightly coloured Old wooden salt boxes, next to modern vinyl-sided homes, line the hillsides looking down onto the harbour, frozen over. It looks like a vibrant community, except I see no one; a large modern crab plant to the left, one fishing boat tied up to the government wharf in the centre, but no people. And yet, despite the stillness, it feels as if my presence is known. And sure enough, within minutes a man drives up to me on his all-terrain vehicle.

[Sound: laughing]

MARY LYNK: Laughing before he speaks, he introduces himself.

LARRY LOCKE: Larry Locke.

MARY LYNK: I have come to talk to two men who live year round on the island. The man in front of me, Larry Locke, and also Perry Locke: same last name. Larry thinks they are related from way back, but not quite sure how.

LARRY LOCKE: Okay, I'm going to give you the nickel tour now of Little Bay Islands, it won't take very long. It's about five kilometres of road, maybe, five, five and a half, sometime like that. It's like an atoll, all around hills, beautiful harbour, once you get inside, your boat is safe. Lots of anchorage....

MARY LYNK: [overlapping] Larry and Perry Locke come from fisherman stock. The Lockes were among the early settlers on the islands. Larry is 57 and used to be a fisherman, but was able to get re-training during the moratorium in the early 1990s, when the cod fishery collapsed. Now, he works for Marine Atlantic - the ferry between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Two weeks on, two weeks off.

MARY LYNK: What is this place there?

LARRY LOCKE: This was, a lady tried to start an old heritage place there. [indistinct], she put a bit of money into it, and I think the government put a bit of money into it. She figured it was going to be flooded with tourists, I don't know if there's anyone who’s looked at it yet or not.

MARY LYNK: The last main source of employment on the islands was the crab plant. Larry Locke says there's plans now for it to be dismantled. The last shop, where you could buy a bag of chips and other small items, shut down eight years ago. Larry says the majority of homes are empty.

LARRY LOCKE: You can pass so many houses, and you can point, and most of them you're pointing at, you can say, look, there's no one lives there, there's no one lives there, there's one person who lives in this one, there's two lives in this one....

MARY LYNK: [overlapping] Larry, a town councillor, is pro-resettlement. He remembers hearing the vote results in November: just half a percent shy of the 90 per cent needed.

LARRY LOCKE: I think I was working, my wife called me and she told me how close it was. And my heart sunk. I said, well, don't like we're going to do it, but shortly after that, you know, being a member of council myself, shortly after that, council received this other letter, from municipal affairs saying they were going to revise it. And we said, well, okay then, it's not completely dead, you know, they're still looking at it. I sort of got my nerve up a little bit more then, but the first initial reaction, [sighs]...by's....I says...and I think everyone was too....I think there was people here on the island, didn't know it best to cry or what to do, because I mean that's, everything been hinging on that. There was 95 people. I believe that was eligible to vote. It probably was ten voted against it, cause Perry started calling themselves the terrible ten. [laughs] I got a chuckle out of that one, I must say.

MARY LYNK: Perry Locke is 50 years old and has one of the few island jobs working for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro.

PERRY LOCKE: Along that shore down there, there was nothing but red sheds. That's where they had their Schooneers docked, they had all their business down there, they had a store there...

MARY LYNK: While everybody knows how Perry, the former mayor, voted, many are keeping their votes to themselves. Perry is unaware of how his elderly mother voted; didn't ask, didn't want to know. But Perry is open about his vote against resettlement, which has made his life on the island very difficult at times.

PERRY LOCKE: To me, the money is what change attitudes on the community. I mean, sure, people point out now, I mean, we don’t have this, we don’t have a store, we don’t have this, we don’t have that. We haven't had that for years. Ah, the thing that got to me a little while ago, I was hearing this, 10 holding back 85 hostage. I never did agree to those terms, because I mean hostage paints a scenario that you’re holding someone against their will. You know, you’re forcibly confining somebody. But nobody's being forcibly confined here. There's four ferry trips every day from this island if somebody wants to leave. I mean, you can't say you’re being held hostage.

MARY LYNK: Larry and Perry's homes are in the centre of town, practically within spitting distance. But they haven't been spending much time together lately. Larry Locke says Perry keeps to himself these days; but on an island this small, it's hard to not have your paths cross.

LARRY LOCKE: Perry, is, there's one house between us there. You know, he knows my stand and I knows his stand, so most time when me and him talk, It's either in the woods, or we cuts a little bit of firewood, whatever, we’ll talk about the food fishery, or....anything other than that issue. I don't talk about it with hardly any of the people that are against the move. I know now, there's people thinking that there's a lot of animosity here on Little Bay Islands. Now, I'm not saying there isn't any, you know, when you comes to 90 per cent that wants to go, and those 10 per cent that don’t want to go, I’m not saying there isn’t any, but I think it's been romanticized and seem like the media would sooner accept the fact that there's a lot of conflict there. But my love, there's very little conflict there over this issue.

MARY LYNK: But for those on other side, they offer a different perspective.

PERRY LOCKE: What do you mean, no tension in the community? Maybe not in their eyes, they mighten see it. If you's on the side of the fence I'm on, you might hear it too.

MARY LYNK: Perry believes the issue is tearing people apart. Beyond people turning their heads, or not speaking to him on the ferry, Perry says there have also been threats on social media.

PERRY LOCKE: I had a print screen from Facebook that plainly showed what was said. Even though it was after been taken down, ah, there was as comment made there, and I kind of took it to be a threatening comment to anybody that was keeping the community from relocating.

MARY LYNK: Comments so upsetting he says he won't even talk about them.

PERRY LOCKE: After it got out in the media, people were all like, they never heard about it before in their life. To me, it's just not the place to live that it was one time. And to me, a lot of it is the relocation process. And it just tore away the fabric of the community, and shredded everything. And if they think that things like that is going to change the way I vote, I can't let it change the way I vote, because that’s not...I mean, if intimidation is meant for me to change the way I feel and my circumstances, is not.

MARY LYNK: Perry says he had to give up being mayor of Little Bay Islands because of the resettlement tensions.

PERRY LOCKE: People felt that I was holding up the resettlement process, here we are three years later, now since I resigned from mayor in 2013, and there we are, almost three years. And was I stalling it? I never brought my person opinion to what the council was doing. I still believe today that the council should have never gotten involved in the process, because the council should have been remained neutral and ran the community until there was nothing else to run, and then lock the doors. But council, right now, in my opinion, the council we have here now is pro-resettlement, and the only side they're looking at, is one side.

MARY LYNK: Larry Locke, who sits on council, says the community will die, whether resettlement happens or not.

LARRY LOCKE: You can't be an ostrich and bury your head in the sand; it’s not going to go away. The last thing to be said here is amen, because as far as I'm concerned it's a dead community.

MARY LYNK: There are outports who have successfully fought against relocation. Down the coast, Fogo Island said a defiant no to Joey Smallwood's resettlement plans in the 1950s. And it's survived due in part to high end tourism and fisheries innovations. Could the same have been done to save Little Bay Islands? Because, as I say to Perry…

MARY LYNK: Once this is gone, it's gone, isn't it?

PERRY LOCKE: Oh, yah, when the fish plant shut down while I was mayor, myself and another councillor, we went to government, they had a committee formed, for dealing with the situation of fish plant closures. And at that time, we sat down, and that's what we looked at: well, what can be done in your community? And we thought, well, the harbour alone can promoted as a safe harbour for, like, there was some interest I think from the marine and Lewis ports, for boats would travel here overnight here and then continue on destination. And there might have been a couple little spin off seasonal, they might have given a bit of work to the few people who were there.

MARY LYNK: But...

PERRY LOCKE: ...But before we got a chance to get anything look at, start at anything or look at anything, resettlement came to town and squashed everything. I mean, resettlement squashes everything. It takes the interest out of everything: it takes the interest out of the fire department, it takes the interest out of council, it takes the interest out of church, it takes the interest out of everything. It sucks the life out of a community, whether it happens or not, it still sucks the life out of the community and kills it.

MARY LYNK: Little Bay Islands is really made up of three groups: the full timers who live year round; former residents who come home in the summer; and well, the CFAs, the Come From Aways: Americans, people from Ontario, mainland Newfoundlanders, who summer on the island. Larry Locke.

LARRY LOCKE: ...And a lot of cabins, right? I mean, we feel like sometimes we're being held hostage for the people who want to come and enjoy their summers. You know, we got to stay here winter time, and keep the services going, and the ferry and everything running, so they can have their comfort for coming here summer time. That's how we feel sometimes, a lot of people feels that way.

MARY LYNK: While only 47 people are currently living here during the winter, 95 qualified to vote. Some wonder if it's because of the money involved: a quarter of a million for a well-looked after house or even an old trailer. Perry Locke.

PERRY LOCKE: I can live with the people on this island, who live here year round, exercising their right to say that they want to relocate. And if that's the way it goes, and the number is there, so be it. I have a problem with, when people that don't live here year round, which you probably saw on your drive around today, you should be dictating what happens in this community. It should be done by the permanent year round residents, or back when the process started, the permanent year round residents, whatever.

MARY LYNK: So some people who are voting, even though they didn't live here full time, I mean, these are not the people who come here for the summer who bought summer homes, these are people who used to live here, and they still somehow... what's the qualification, then?

PERRY LOCKE: According to the policy, the policy states that you only had to be ordinarily resident in the community for 183 days out of year for two consecutive years, and you can be classified as a permanent resident. I mean, permanent resident to me, is not somebody that’s here, like, half a year for two years. I mean, to me, that’s a joke.

MARY LYNK: Back in the car with Larry Locke, he points out homes owned by summer people.

LARRY LOCKE: Not very far to drive, there, and you’ll go right out, and you’ve got a really good view...

MARY LYNK: [overlapping] We drive over a small bridge to Macks Island. We stop in front a lovely bungalow belonging to Christina and Craig Pelley, nestled into Lighthouse Hill with breathtaking views of the harbour and the centre of town. The Pelleys’ year round home is in Springdale, but they wanted their kids to experience outport life, to experience its freedom. If resettlement goes through, as seasonal residents, they get no compensation and they lose their property.

CHRISTINA PELLEY: Yeah, and that's another misconception, is that we would still own our property...

MARY LYNK: [overlapping] This is Christina Pelley.

CHRISTINA PELLEY: ..If you look at the law, the law states that the government must own all properties in an evacuated community. And that you can apply to occupy, or use your property, anyone us can, full time, seasonal, whatever, if we could get there, but it's at the minister's discretion. So you can use it for a period of up to five years. To me, that's illegal expropriation. In fact, if we didn’t get that permit and went to our house, we would be breaking the law.

CRAIG PELLEY: A lot of people refer to us as just cabin owners, and we're only there for a couple days of the year to access the food fishery and what not, and... [chuckles] some more colourful people refer to us as stouts, which is a Newfoundland term for a deer fly, I believe, those terrible things that come out in the summer time.

MARY LYNK: But Craig says stouts have value.

CRAIG PELLEY: But you know, we've added a fair bit, us stouts, to the economy of Little Bay Islands over the years, being over half the taxpaying base.

MARY LYNK: Do you think that the seasonal people who do pay taxes, the same amount as the people who live there year round, should they have a vote, or a say or somehow?

CHRISTINA PELLEY: I don't think so, personally, no. I don't think it's fair, for somebody like me, who bought a home there in 2012, to have a vote and to determine the future of a community that, while I love it there, it doesn't belong to me. I feel it belongs to the residents of Little Bay Islands...

[Sound: Guitar tuning]

CHRISTINA PELLEY: ...and the people who grew up there. And it's their decision to make.

MARY LYNK: At his kitchen table overlooking the harbour, Larry Locke tunes his guitar.

LARRY LOCKE: This is a George Jones tune.

[Music: Larry singing “Choices” by George Jones]

LARRY LOCKE: It's home, but it's outlived its usefulness.

MARY LYNK: It’s not a hard choice, though?

LARRY LOCKE: No, not really, not for me, my love, no, absolutely.

MARY LYNK: How will you feel the day you pack up and leave?

LARRY LOCKE: Ah, elated. We want to go, that's it. You’re going to think about your childhood, sure you are, but you cannot live for the past, and things change, and we’ve got to change with it. Our motto is, like I noticed a lot of people that’s in favour of going, our motto is, it’s better to go now with some money, if it's available, then go the once with nothing.

[Music: Larry singing]

MARY LYNK: But if the choice is to resettle, it means Larry's neighbour will have to give up a cherished way of life, and a good paying job. Before I leave, Perry Locke and I have a final conversation next to the only remaining church. It belongs to the Salvation Army. A strong faith has long been a common value on Little Bay Islands.

MARY LYNK: what's it like at church on Sundays?

PERRY LOCKE: Don't know, don't go. Should be ashamed to say it, but....I even look at Christianity different since this process started. I don't think I’ve been to church since resettlement came to Little Bay Islands. To me, the government should have come out, and this is something that they haven’t' done, they have not come out to the people and said, if the numbers are there, we will pay out the money. Nobody has got this money yet, since they put it up to $250,000, not one community has got the money. I’d like to know if the government is sincere with the offer of money, or if they’re just blowing smoke and still keeping this process lingering because they knows it’s tearing everything apart.

MARY LYNK: People are going to be resentful, don’t you think, if they don’t get that money in the end?

PERRY LOCKE: Oh, I think so. I mean, I don’t know. I says we’re the guinea pig. I says Little Bay Islands was the guinea pig for this process.

MARY LYNK: What does that mean for Newfoundland?

PERRY LOCKE: Oh, it’s just going to speed up the death of rural Newfoundland, that’s all the relocation process is. It’s just a way, to me, it’s just a way to kill rural Newfoundland, one way or another: either we kill you by moving you, or we kill you with the promise of money that’s not going to materialize, and you kill yourself. They’ll just dangle it in front of you, dangle it in front of you, dangle it in front of you for three years and keep on dangling, and if we keep dangling this long enough, we won’t have to drop a cent.

[Music: Peaceful, Rustic Flute]

[Sound: Ferry horn blows]

MARY LYNK: I'm back on the ferry at the end of the day. This time, there's another car, beside the teacher's. It belongs to Lemuel Jones, began fishing when he was just six. He's now 73. His three sons are scattered throughout Newfoundland, his daughter has been living in Fort McMurray for more than 30 years. Lemuel says after a week's visit, she get restless to leave. He's heading to Springdale to visit his wife. Her health is too fragile to spend winters on the island anymore. Lemuel is barely hanging on.

LEMUEL JONES: I’ve got nothing there now, only just my home and a wharf, and I got a boat there and I’m just gradually taking it apart and tearing it in the dump.

MARY LYNK: You're tearing your boat apart?

LEMUEL JONES: Yeah.

MARY LYNK: What's it like to tear apart your fishing boat?

LEMUEL JONES: Well, after 30-odd years aboard a boat…[chuckles] it's sad, but that's all you can do, eh? You can’t give it away.

MARY LYNK: I ask if he feels tension in his home of Little Bay Islands.

LEMUEL JONES: Some people don't want to speak to someone else. But life is not worth it. Got no bad feelings about no one on Little Bay Islands. [chuckles] If I had a job, I’d do the same as Perry is doing, eh? I'd be foolish if I wouldn't. [chuckles]

MARY LYNK: As it is, Lemuel Jones voted to leave.

[Music: Flute continues]

[Music: Larry singing a song about Little Bay Islands with his playing guitar]

AMT: We have been listening to the documentary Death of an Outport. It was produced by CBC's Mary Lynk and Joan Webber. I’m Anna Maria Tremonti in St. John’s, this is a special edition of The Current on CBC Radio One, Sirius XM, and online at cbc.ca/thecurrent.

[Music: Sting]

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Come From Away musical about N.L. during 9/11 to hit Broadway

Guests: Irene Sankoff

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: Hello, I'm Anna Maria Tremonti in St John's. This is The Rock in a Hard Place, a special edition of The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: You don't want to be seen in the courtroom as the weakest link when you're supposed to be the advocate for your client.

VOICE 2: It's not easy to stand up and say look I think you're treating me differently because I'm a woman.

VOICE 3: Guidelines a very good at telling us when to start drugs, but they’re not very good about telling us when to stop drugs.

VOICE 4: It’s really important for kids to be able to see themselves in the faces of their teachers.

VOICE 5: If things go on as they are in Turkey we’re going to have very serious destabilization.

AMT: Just a taste of the week that was and is on The Current and I'm joined by Anthony Germain. He's an award-winning journalist, host of the St. John's morning show and right now he's here to help me read through all your tweets, your emails, your letters. Hello.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Hello. Good to see you again.

AMT: Well, it's nice to be here.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: It’s been awhile.

AMT: I have to tell you, I feel so welcome here. It's wonderful.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Good. That's the reputation of the place. I'd be really disappointed if it were otherwise.

AMT: Well, of course, you've got on the air and told everyone I’m a massive partier too, which I think is a good thing here, so.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Yeah, I think it enhances—gives you a lot of cred here.

AMT: Okay, well, speaking of cred, let's read.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: All right.

AMT: Okay, so, as you know this week we are in Newfoundland and Labrador. And our special is called The Rock in a Hard Place. We're looking at the economy and yesterday we looked at how local workers are coping with the shrinking job market as the oil and gas industry in Canada struggles. For many, that means family members leaving home to find work again.

SOUNDCLIP

I'm absolutely dreading it this time because I've been so used to having him home. He's a great father. He's a great hands on daddy and, not so much for me, but knowing that he's going to be waking up and asking [voice catches], asking for his father and it’s really emotional to think about that. I'm going to tell him that his daddy's gone away to work so he can provide a good life for his mommy and daddy. And that's exactly what I'm going to tell him. And I hope that when he gets older he has all that much more love and adoration for his dad because of the sacrifices that he made.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: And that was Crystal Hann from Spanish Room here on the island of Newfoundland.

AMT: Well, many of you wrote in to tell us how Newfoundland and Labrador’s shifting economy is changing your lives.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Michelle Lear writes from Calgary: “My ancestry for the past five generations is in Newfoundland. I grew up there during my high school years and I was submerged into the culture all of my life, which included having jiggs dinner every Sunday. I had this exact discussion with my parents about making the choice to move to a place where my kids could stay in the city with me once they grew up, should they chose to do so. Now that I'm in Calgary, leaving home at least will now be an option and not a necessity. I feel that I am breaking the cycle and although it's very difficult to be away from my family, I know that it will be different for my kids.”

AMT: For Kate Cornick, the story sounded really familiar. She tweets: “Today, it sounded like the life of my dad. From Port au—“ How do I say that?

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Port au Choix.

AMT: Port au Choix. “…Port au Choix, 1 of 11 kids, dad a fisherman, mom worked nights at the plant.” Lee Hammond in Montreal writes: “Please don't forget the people of Labrador City and Wabush. They are losing their homes due to foreclosure. Iron Ore is the livelihood of all that work there, but how can a one-industry town survive in today's climate?@

ANTHONY GERMAIN: And will give the final word to Keith Hillier from Pasadena, Newfoundland and Labrador. He tweets: “The Rock and the Big Land Labrador have always been a hard place. For centuries our ancestors persevered. We will too, and come out stronger.”

AMT: Okay. Well, let's move on.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: Flights bound for the US being diverted to Canadian airports today.

VOICE 2: After the attack some of our aircraft were diverted to Canada.

VOICE 3: Close to 50 international flights landed at Gander today.

VOICE 4: Which, of course, has a huge international airport.

VOICE 3: But most of the passengers are still on board the planes.

VOICE 5: One has to remember that the population of Gander is only 10,000 people.

VOICE 2: And so we owe our Canadian neighbours a debt of gratitude for helping us as we redirected flights and their passengers to airports in Canada.

AMT: Well, on September 11th, 2001 Gander, Newfoundland saw its population literally double overnight when over 6,000 passengers were stranded in the small town after their flights were diverted from the US. Their story will fly on to the Broadway stage next year in a musical by Canadian playwrights David Hine and Irene Sankoff. Irene Sankoff joins us from Toronto. Hi.

IRENE SANKOFF: Hi, Anna Maria.

AMT: You're there, I'm here. Okay.

IRENE SANKOFF: Yes.

AMT: Well, congratulations on landing on Broadway. What was going through your mind when you got the green light, that you heard you were going to Broadway?

IRENE SANKOFF: It is obviously fabulous and such a great honour and we're so glad, both of us or all of us working on the show that the story is going to be shared with so many people. It's a dream come true. I mean, the only thing better would be going back to Newfoundland, right, with the show.

AMT: Yeah. Well, put that on the list. So tell us what Come From Away is about.

IRENE SANKOFF: It's about the people who were stranded in Newfoundland over 9/11 and how the townsfolk there in Gander were just above and beyond hospitable. Not only did they let people off of the planes not knowing who was on them, but they let them into all of their community buildings, which-- You know, they stop schools for the entire time that people were there. They just devoted all of their energy to taking care of people and not only did they put them up in their schools and community buildings but then they began inviting people home for dinner. And then they began inviting them to stay the night and cleaning their clothes and giving them anything that they could ask for over the time that they were stranded.

AMT: So you have created an entire musical with characters based around that. That sounds wonderful.

IRENE SANKOFF: Thank you.

AMT: What are the sets like?

IRENE SANKOFF: It's mostly actor-driven. The set is very, very simple and just evocative of the town of Newfoundland-- the town of Gander, sorry, and the Legion and the places that people were put up.

AMT: Now, the show has been incredibly well received in the US. You've had sellout shows. You’ve won awards. Why do you think it's so popular?

IRENE SANKOFF: I think it is such a unique story in that it is such a positive showing of humanity. I mean, every day we hear about things that are negative and this is an unbelievable story in that every different piece of the puzzle that came together over those several days just is another piece of the wondrous nature of these people.

AMT: And it's so interesting, eh. It's such a dark time today that really stood out. I understand the mayor Gander saw the production.

IRENE SANKOFF: He did. He was flown out to Seattle. And the Monday that he was there was declared Gander Day and he was screeched in Seattle by having to kiss Atlantic salmon and also getting, I think, a shot of espresso.

AMT: Oh, because Seattle famous for coffee.

IRENE SANKOFF: Yes. Starbucks.

AMT: It's more fun to be screeched in in St John's, isn’t it?

IRENE SANKOFF: I think it might be.

AMT: --liquor, yeah. Okay, but still. That’s nice. What is it about Newfoundland culture, do you think, that resonates with audiences, not only on both sides of the border, but from coast to coast to coast?

IRENE SANKOFF: I think the music is so rich and we've done our best to capture that in the musical, which is part of the reason it is a musical, because you can’t talk about Newfoundland without talking about music. And I think just the people are so naturally funny and naturally open and caring and it's just wonderful to spend time in their company, both when you're watching them on the stage or when you're actually out there. As you yourself know now.

AMT: Yeah, yeah. And so you've got-- The musical features some of these stories or the ideas of some of these stories where people really reach out and go above and beyond, huh?

IRENE SANKOFF: Yes, and we've done our best to actually take stories that happened and amalgamate them into different characters and just make a one through line so anything that you see on the stage is something that actually happened.

AMT: And so can you give me an idea? Give me one story.

IRENE SANKOFF: Sure. There's the story of Captain Beverley Bass who is the first female captain for a commercial airline and she was the only female captain stranded there over 9/11 and she's trying to reach home and the people of Gander just make her wonderfully comfortable. There's Nick and Diane who are stranded there and over a couple of days, you know, got to know each other really well. And I won't give away the end of it. And there's a story of Bonnie, the local SPCA lady who went on to the planes and took all of the animals out of the holds.

AMT: Oh, it’s going to be interesting. So it's a musical, so it's going to be a lot of fun, but you’re going to make me cry, aren’t you?

IRENE SANKOFF: There's a lot of crying in the audience usually, yes.

AMT: Yeah. Okay, so it goes to Broadway next year. Define next year.

IRENE SANKOFF: We don't know yet. We're still waiting for a theatre.

AMT: Okay, but you’ll be there?

IRENE SANKOFF: Yes.

AMT: Okay. Terrific. Well, congratulations.

IRENE SANKOFF: Thank you so much.

AMT: That is Irene Sankoff. She's one of the playwrights behind the soon-to-be Broadway musical Come From Away. And she joined us in Toronto.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: It’s a great story. There's a guy from Texas, Anna Maria, who calls me every year on September 11th. He says, Anthony, on your show, make sure to thank the people of Newfoundland for what they did. So a lot of Americans remember. It’s amazing.

AMT: That’s great.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Onto the next story. Monday on the show we discussed the issues of senior citizens being overprescribed drugs. According to some health care advocates, seniors are often taking more than a dozen medications a day, many unnecessarily and sometimes the drugs are being used as an easy way to keep patients calm.

SOUNDCLIP

I've been working in our geriatric day hospital for 17 years now, and it was very clear to me early on that many of the patients who are coming to us with falls and cognitive impairment, were taking many, many medications. And we found that over time, if we reduced the doses of their medications, or even stopped a few of them, that they would actually stop falling and become less confused. And that seemed to really help people improve in terms of their quality of life.

AMT: Well, that’s Barb Farrell. She's a scientist and pharmacist, also an executive member of the Canadian Deprescribing Network. Here's what some of you had to say.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Evon Smith posted this on Facebook:” You bet they over medicate! It's about time they reassessed the whole thing. But the drug companies are a business and their job is to make money, which brings it all back to the real reason...it's money.” Susan Robbie of Sherwood Park of Alberta wrote to us about working with her mother's doctor to get her off of drugs that were causing some side effects. She writes: “We agreed that after age 90, quality of life was more important than preventive medications, so several drugs were stopped. Mum regained her mental well-being and lived several more years.”

AMT: Well, over the last few years, Darlene Mercer was guiding her late aunt's care in Victoria, BC. She writes: ”I visited any number of public/private, and wholly private care places and I heard time and again that some would rely on medication to keep clients in bed (and dead asleep) at night, and 'quieted' during the day. During the day, they are literally either parked in a wheelchair or in a 'commons room' to 'socialize', or left in their beds to 'rest'. “

ANTHONY GERMAIN: And one more thought. This is from Carolle Coulombe who spent seven years working in long term care facilities, caring for people with dementia. She writes from Ottawa to say: “Even then, 30 years ago, it was obvious to me that patience and understanding of each individual resident were key to keeping them happy and less medicated. However, providing them with opportunities to feel useful by folding laundry, for example, requires more than patience. The staff caring for these patients need to get to know them very well to come up with the right strategy for each individual.”

AMT: Okay, now. We’re going to switch gears. Tuesday we heard how the Education Facility at the University of Manitoba is making a push to attract students from five diversity categories to become teachers, but the policy did not include men in their list of minority groups. Currently, around 30 percent of teachers are male, and there are those pushing for more men in the classroom.

SOUNDCLIP

Now, the reality is that we have about one in ten primary elementary teachers who are male and less than a third in Canada as a nation who are male. Female students have been shown to decide, about 40 percent of them, that they want to become teachers when they're in elementary school. So the same would apply for Canadian boys. And if there's a dearth, an absence of male teachers at the elementary level, that can preclude them from wanting to enter the teaching profession.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: That was Douglas Gosse, professor at the Schulich School of Education at Nipissing University.

AMT: Doug Finlayson has two sons in school. He writes from Winnipeg: “The absence of male teachers, especially in elementary school, really needs to be taken more seriously. The issue has been discussed for decades, but nothing seems to be changing. I am all for increasing numbers of disabled, LGBT, and so on, but there should also be quotas introduced based on gender.”

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Ian Hedderick considered becoming an elementary teacher in the early nineties. He shares his experience from Victoria, BC: “When I applied to get the practical experience it felt very uncomfortable. All the teachers in the schools were female and I got the impression that they didn't think I would be a good fit. Then there were a number of male teachers losing their jobs because of sexual harassment claims. I was having to learn that I had to take precautions to protect myself. Things like always keep the classroom doors open, never talking to students alone. This thoroughly scared me. I didn't want to even risk the possibility of an accusation as it would be devastating. So I dropped the whole idea like a hot potato.”

And here's one more comment from Barry Johns. He is a retired Grade 1 teacher in Sylvan Lake, BC. And he writes: “During my teaching career, I was, most often, the only male on our staff of 30-plus teachers and educational assistants. As the years went by the issue never really improved. From the point-of-view of a male teacher, it was a real challenge to be the silent minority. The women on staff often saw and responded to issues in a much different way than I would.”

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Hey Rosetta!'s Tim Baker says N.L. arts need better funding

Guests: Tim Baker

AMT: Now we’re going back to Newfoundland and Labrador for this interview. It’s known for a culture rich with music and art, but today many artists say the scene is under threat. Last December, the city of St. John’s tried to slash arts funding by 50 percent but the public outcry stopped them. In Newfoundland and Labrador there are approximately 1,200 artists who earn an average of 30 percent less than the overall labour force, according to a 2014 report funded by the Canada Council for the Arts. Tim Baker is the front man for the award-winning indie rock band Hey Rosetta! And he joins me now in St. John's. Hello.

TIM BAKER: Hi.

AMT: Well, before we get to the arts cuts. Tell me a little bit more about why music is so important in a place like St. John's and Newfoundland and Labrador as a whole.

TIM BAKER: Well, certainly it has always played a very large part in our culture and in my own growing up. I think, perhaps, in some ways it maybe stems from sort of our Irish forebears, you know. And I think music was always a way to move through adversity and to and to gather together and to share stories. And it certainly has always been held up in Newfoundland as a vital part of the culture and just a thing that makes us us, you know.

AMT: Tell me how arts funding how do you guys develop.

TIM BAKER: Yeah, I mean, it was extremely vital to us in the in the beginning. I was thinking about that earlier and I was thinking we definitely wouldn’t be where we are. There's no question. I mean, we started out; we got a demo grant from the Music NL, which is a provincially funded organization here. And a little grant to make a demo and then we earned another grant to make our full first record, and another grant to tour into Canada. And without those steps, I mean, there's no way we would have done that. It sounds like a lot of grants, but, I mean, it really wasn't that much money in the broad scheme of things. And we've definitely, you know, I think, given back to the economy here in terms of the people that we employ and the taxes that we pay. It’s definitely paid for itself, that investment in us.

AMT: So that that little bit of seed money at the beginning when you're struggling and you're not sure if you can actually put your stuff out there and actually go further into the rest of Canada, it really helps when governments can help a little bit like that.

TIM BAKER: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it also helps just the way people-- I mean, it helps so many things. I could go on forever, but in terms of the kind of music that people make too, you get to see-- When you go to a place that's funded well and people and the government sort of invests in there, you see much more interesting music as well, because doesn't need to be necessarily immediately broad and successful, right. You don't get the kind of like Nashville thing where everything kind of sounds the same and everybody needs to make money otherwise I can't do it at all.

AMT: So what do you think people in St. John's stand to lose if music funding continues to decline here?

TIM BAKER: I think we stand to lose-- I mean, well, let's be clear. I don't think music is ever going to die here. The Arts is never going to die. As I said, I think it comes from a place deeper than that, but it will definitely affect the quality of the arts being made and the viability of it. I think it is a diversifier in this. As we see this economy's very resource based. We've always been that way in Newfoundland from the first bucket of fish that was hauled up. It's always been that. And it really doesn't have to be that way, I don't think. And I think the Arts is such a diverse thing. It employs so many different people and it has such impacts that are hard to quantify as well, like its impact on tourism, on drawing businesses, and workers of the province, on retaining the youth. Certainly, the more the more things you have to do and the more interesting and brighter the place is, the more people will stay, you know. And certainly in terms of talented, creative talented people, I mean, it’s staggering the amount of people that go. I always make the joke that, like, every couple years I have to make a whole new group of friends because people just--

AMT: People disappear.

TIM BAKER: Like-minded arts people, they have to go. They just get fed up with it and have to go somewhere where it's easier. You know, Toronto, Montreal, basically.

AMT: I'm wondering how you think music helps people here in times of adversity.

TIM BAKER: One of the things other than other the fact that it is an economic diversifier and it does actually get people paid, even when the arse is out of it, as they say, in terms of oil. But it also, it is like a meaning maker. It's a unifier and it's a brightener, it’s an enlightener. I mean, it’s exactly like what you do as well at the CBC. Like, it makes an identity, you know. It's very important. And it brings people together. We play our shows and we see all walks of life there. I mean, it' kind of amazing - young people, old people. And it's a beautiful thing to see. And it’s almost hard to describe what it's like for a whole group of people that aren't that similar, necessarily, on the on the face. They experience the same thing and enjoy the same thing in this one moment. It's pretty - it's pretty amazing.

AMT: Pretty powerful.

TIM BAKER: Yeah.

AMT: So, Tim Baker, front man for the St. John's indie rock band Hey Rosetta! You're going to play us out today with one of the band's songs. Tell us a little bit about the song that you've got for us.

TIM BAKER: Yeah, so I've chosen a brand new song that I've actually never played for anyone, except for the soundtrack we just did here was the first time I’ve played it. [laughs] But I had to use it because I felt it really speaks to what we're talking about and what your show’s about here these days. It's a song about being a musician in St John's, essentially, and about the hardship of it and being baffled by the wind and the economy and everything, but also those times when everyone sort of gathers arm in arm and sings together and, yeah. That’s sort of about what we're talking about.

AMT: Well, I can't wait to hear it, but before you do that, and maybe as you get set up, Anthony and I have a little bit of housekeeping to do to give some credit where credit is due.

[music]

AMT: The week that was and still is on The Current was produced by: Idella Sturino, Shannon Higgins, Howard Goldenthal, Ines Colabrese, Lara O'Brien, Julian Uzielli, Sarah Grant.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Pacinthe Mattar, Sujata Berry, Marc Appollonio, Leif Zapf-Gilje, Catherine Kalbfleisch, Julia Pagel.

AMT: Shanifa Nasser, Kinsey Clark, John Chipman, Karin Marley, Rana Sowdaey, and Vanessa Greco.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: And The Current's writer is Peter Mitton. Our web producer is Lisa Ayuso. Our technicians are Carole Ito and Jennifer Rowley.

AMT: A big thank you goes to my partner in crime these last few days, producer Liz Hoath, who survived being snowed in, driving around on bald tires, having only the clothes she arrived in after Air Canada lost her luggage for the whole trip. Liz, it’s always great to work with you in the field. [laughs]

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Another happy trip to the island. The Current's senior documentary editor is Joan Webber. The senior producers are Richard Goddard in Toronto and Cathy Simon in Vancouver.

AMT: And a special thanks to our wonderful Newfoundland colleagues, Anthony Germain, of course, our producer Heather Barrett, technician – wonderful technician – Ken Cave, digital editor John Gushue, and all the great people here at CBC St. John’s who have been so helpful and welcoming. The executive producer of The Current is with us, rolled up her sleeves on this one, Kathleen Goldhar as well.

[music]

AMT: If you want to add to anything you hear on The Current, weigh in by tweeting us @TheCurrentCBC.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: And while you’re there, subscribe to the podcast or email us your thoughts by clicking on the Contact Us link or post a story on our Facebook page.

AMT: Okay. Connie Walker’s going to be here hosting tomorrow. I’m going to fly back today.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Yeah, we’ll miss you. People are really happy you guys came. So, thank you.

AMT: Well, you know, it’s always good to hear from people, to actually go some of the small towns that we talk about and really hear how people are struggling.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: And the size of the canvas of The Current really gives a chance to probe though, so I know people are really, really happy you came here to tell those stories to the rest of the country.

AMT: And I know you really have not lived in Canada until you drive that highway down the Burin Peninsula in the rain and the snow—

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Yes. Although, if you enjoy life, you might not want to. [laughs]

AMT: I’ve lived to tell about it. It’s all been fascinating.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Great to see you again.

AMT: Well, it’s good to have you here. And, of course, Tim Baker is all set up, ready to go.

ANTHONY GERMAIN: Yes. I noticed all the women swooning.

AMT: Yeah, well, there you go. Okay, and he’s got a really special song for us. So, stay with The Current. We are going to finish off with this special note. Tim Baker of the indie rock band He Rosetta! Has a song he’s just finished writing. It’s going to debut right now. So, performing solo on acoustic guitar, here in the CBC studios in St. John’s, Newfoundland, here is Tim Baker with Spirit. I’m Anna Maria Tremonti. Thank you for listening to The Current.

[Music: Spirit by Tim Baker]

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Mar. 10, 2016 Episode Transcript

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