Meredith MacNeill and Jennifer Whalen tackle menopause with fearless humour in their new show

Breaking taboos isn't new to Meredith MacNeill and Jennifer Whalen, alums of Baroness von Sketch Show and the powerhouse duo behind the new scripted comedy Small Achievable Goals, premiering on CBC Television and CBC Gem in the winter of 2025. Dishing out truths on aging, sex and womanhood, their humour and realness rebel against societal norms. 

I caught up with the creators and stars of the show at the CBC season preview in Toronto. The first thing I wanted to know was: if "menopause" is a word that often makes people uncomfortable and a topic that many shy away from discussing openly, why make a show about "The Change"?

"Exactly, for the reasons that you just said," MacNeill explained. "If half of the world is going through it, and the other half knows someone in it, and it's a word we can barely spit out, then I think we need to do a show about it."

"I think that comedy is the best way to deal with things that are difficult," Whalen added. "The degree of difficulty involved and the danger level of doing this appealed to both of us. And I think it's just about time."

Here's more from my chat with the longtime collaborators and co-creators and stars of the new workplace comedy.

In the all-female Baroness von Sketch Show, you celebrated awkwardness, failure and truly not giving a f*ck. Can we expect more of the same?

MacNeill: I'm a big fan of going so low that other women, or people, can say, "You know what, not that low — but I did experience that." There will be a lot of that. I think we're going after shame and internal patriarchy quite a bit. Owning what it is to look or feel 50 isn't something we always grew up with. We want to celebrate and make space for that.

Whalen: While we were doing Baroness, a woman came up to me and said, "I love your show. Oh my god, it's so embarrassing. Everything you do is so embarrassing."

MacNeill: I didn't know that!

Whalen: And I was like, I have not put out my most embarrassing, that's just my day to day! I also think that both Mer and I have a higher threshold with where we can go. This masking that we all do is exhausting. But there's so much fun in both what we're trying to hide and what we'll show and I'm OK with doing something crazy embarrassing.

MacNeill: The thing that makes us look fearless actually comes from a place of great fear.

Whalen: I also really think about myself, maybe I'm not fearless. Maybe I'm dissociative? Because I'm like, "Oh, but I didn't do that. My character did that. I wouldn't do that." 

I want to talk about your characters in Small Achievable Goals, Jan and Kris. How much of them are you?

Whalen: I would say that Jan is my worst tendencies blown up and exaggerated.  And she's sort of designed to talk about some of the things that I want to talk about in an exaggerated way. 

MacNeill: I always felt Kris is really far removed from me. What does sex and shame mean when you're older and you start dating again? Kris's look is very Sarah Jessica Parker-inspired from Sex And The City, with a lot of male gaze on it. But as time has gone on, I'm starting to wonder if I created her to be in her a little bit, if that makes sense. I really wanted to create something I find fun but also a little bit sad.

It's interesting you mentioned SJP because I wanted to ask you about Sex and the City, Broad City, and Girls — shows that dismissed the idea of female characters only being dutiful mothers or just arm candy. They were really aspirational for people to have these wild lives. Do you feel there's anything like that in your show?

MacNeill: I hope so. I hope we're gonna do that. 

Whalen: Certainly, we want to elevate the look because when you hear the word "menopause," there's a certain frumpiness associated with it. It doesn't have to look like that.

MacNeill: The aspirational aspect, like you said, I think we really strive for that. But when you're talking about a subject matter that people feel embarrassed to talk about — not to say this is groundbreaking; we're part of a movement, so I'll be really clear about that — what I've learned as a writer-creator is that if I don't get diarrhea, it's not worth doing. The best job I can do is to tell the truth of an experience as best I can.

This interview had been edited and condensed for length and clarity.