Kaveh Akbar's search for meaning in sobriety led to writing his bestselling novel, Martyr!
The Iranian American writer is the very first guest on Bookends with Mattea Roach
WARNING: This audio contains discussion of suicide.
Kaveh Akbar is an Iranian American writer who has taken the literary scene by storm with his debut novel, Martyr! And now he's the very first guest on Bookends with Mattea Roach, CBC's new author interview show.
Martyr! follows a 20-something Iranian American poet named Cyrus in his early years of sobriety. When he becomes fascinated with the stories of historical martyrs, he finds himself on his way to interview a terminally ill artist in Brooklyn — a journey and conversation that changes the course of his life.
"Cyrus felt to me like a compilation of several people I know and love. They're all dealing with common mid-to-late '20s problems. But his are more poetic ... and more intense," Roach said in their introduction.
"Martyr! hasn't made its way back onto my bookshelf since I finished reading it because I immediately lent it to several people in quick succession."
Previously known for his poetry, Akbar's foray into fiction draws partially on his own experiences and has changed the course of his own life, making him a New York Times bestselling author and garnering rave reviews.
Kaveh, your debut novel is called Martyr! with an exclamation point. Why the exclamation?
I really love the exclamation in the title. First of all, I think it communicates something about tone. I think if the book were just called Martyr, it might seem like it was dour, it was quite self-serious, self-important, quite relentless. I hope that's not the book that I've written.
This is a book that deals with serious subjects and treats its material seriously. But there are also long conversations with Lisa Simpson and Kareem Abdul Jabbar, so hopefully it's not a joyless slog.
I also think that the martyr's death is quite staccato — it imbues a life retroactively with this great meaning and purpose, whereas most of us are driving toward creating meaning very atomically in these tiny, granular moments — a phone call with a beloved, an interaction with a stranger. Over a lifetime, hopefully, we accrue meaning.
The martyr's death is quite staccato — it imbues a life retroactively with this great meaning and purpose- Kaveh Akbar
So the exclamation point seemed to fit that tonally as well — the idea of the martyr, the exclamatory death of a martyr, versus the sort of rolling ellipses of the rest of us mortals.
Your novel is about this young man, Cyrus, who's searching for purpose in life and he's writing a book about historical martyrs. What drew you to this topic?
I am a person who is in recovery. I've been sober for 10-and-a-half, almost 11 years and early in my recovery, I spent a lot of time struggling with this idea that I had experienced negative 11 on the Richter scale — just like, obliterating, pulverizing, agonizing, mental anguish — and I had experienced 11 — narcotic ecstatic rapture. Anything in between was kind of muddy. It took quite a lot in either extreme to really register.
So when I got sober, I found that the spectrum, the aperture, had narrowed so much to maybe negative five to three, or something like that. I was like, 'Well, what's the point?' Not to sound too glum, but I figured that if I had already experienced the best and the most extreme of what life had to offer to me, then I didn't really need to remain alive anymore, right?
As I was thinking about that, I was trying to think about suicidality and the ethics of suicidality. I started reading a lot about that. I was thinking a lot about how, if I wasn't committed to remaining alive anymore, then what would be the most ethical way for me to exit the world?
I was also aware that those things were fraught by my subject position as an Iranian Muslim in America. Certain things wouldn't be read as, 'a principled American leftist made a measured decision for the good of his species,' right? They would be read as, 'an extremist Iranian terrorist,' so on and so forth. So I was thinking a lot about that and writing a lot about that and studying other people who had sacrificed, which led to my creating a character who was interested in these questions and running down these same rabbit holes.
Cyrus has these dreams where he creates dialogues between, in some cases, fictional characters, in some cases, famous people or historical figures, in some cases, members of his family — or he even has this imaginary brother that never existed. How did you come up with these scenarios?
I'm aware that you're not supposed to put dream sequences in literary fiction. I'm aware that people roll their eyes when you start talking to them about dreams. But also, I'm fascinated by dreams. I start each day by asking my spouse if they dreamt, because if they have, I get to start the day with my best friend telling me a story. What could be better than that?
So Cyrus has this game that he plays where he sort of imagines these dream dialogues between people that he admires or people that he's interested in. People that he misses, or people that he loves. Sometimes he'll fall asleep playing this game, and then his brain will take over and start staging these conversations for him. This is literally something that I have done my whole life.
Ever since I was a kid I've been a bad sleeper. My dad worked really, really early hours, so it was important that I was quiet, that I wasn't stirring around and whining about not being able to sleep.
I'm fascinated by dreams- Kaveh Akbar
I realized it was a good way to get to know these characters. And some of the central mysteries in the book are being contemplated in the dreams. As with dreams in the real world, sometimes the dreams get out a little bit ahead of the character who's having them in terms of unraveling these mysteries. That was a fun and rewarding game to play, to figure out how to honour the importance of dream in my life in a way that felt narratively satisfying to a contemporary reader.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity. It was produced by Katy Swailes.
If you are thinking of suicide or know someone who is, here are ways you can get help:
- Canada Suicide Prevention Service: 1-833-456-4566 (Phone) | 45645 (Text) | crisisservicescanada.ca (Chat)
- In Quebec (French): Association québécoise de prévention du suicide: 1-866-APPELLE (1-866-277-3553)
- Kids Help Phone: 1-800-668-6868 (Phone), Live Chat counselling at www.kidshelpphone.ca
- Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention: Find a crisis centre
If you feel your mental health or the mental health of a loved one is at risk of an immediate crisis, call 911.
