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The Canada Reads 2024 Day One Transcript

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Opening

ANNOUNCER: This is a CBC special presentation.

[tense Canada Reads theme]

ALI HASSAN: What is the one book that all of Canada should read? That is what we're here to find out. Five outstanding Canadians are here with me. Each of them has chosen the book they believe the entire country should read. This year, we're looking for one book to carry us forward. Which title will it be? We'll find out this week. It's the great Canadian book debate. I'm your host, Ali Hassan. This is Canada Reads.

[Heavy rock theme]

ANNOUNCER: This is Canada Reads. Canada's annual title fight.

Introducing The Panellists

ALI HASSAN: Hello and welcome. It's the 23rd edition of Canada Reads. It's a new year, a new panel. We're here to find the one book that all of Canada should read. I'm seated at the classic Canada Reads poker table with this year's panel. They each have a book that they believe will carry us forward. That's five great titles, and over the next four days, they will narrow this list of five down to one, and they will choose the one book all of Canada should read. It's a big job, but they're up for the challenge. Let's meet them now. So, on my left is our first panellist. He's a community builder, professor and leader who's known for his love of cities and urban life. His passion to serve his community is rivalled only by his passion for books and reading. Welcome to Canada Reads, Naheed Nenshi.

NAHEED NENSHI: Thanks, Ali.

ALI HASSAN: Okay, how are you doing?

NAHEED NENSHI: I'm a little nervous. These people are very smart and very literate.

ALI HASSAN: [chuckle] Well, you've been around smart people a lot in your life. You were the mayor of Calgary for three terms. How does winning those three elections compare to trying to win one Canada Reads?

NAHEED NENSHI: Well, you know, I was saying earlier that I'm good at talking to the people, but I only have to convince these four people. So, let's see how that goes.

ALI HASSAN: Good luck to you. Tell us which book you're championing.

NAHEED NENSHI: I am championing Denison Avenue. Words by Christina Wong. Illustrations by Daniel Innes.

ALI HASSAN: All right. Thank you, Naheed. Next to Naheed is our second panellist. She's an Alberta-born actor who uses her passion for storytelling to shine on stage and screen. She starred in the films Giving Hope, Love Bites and Backspot and was also named one of TIFF's Rising Stars in 2023. Welcome to Canada Reads, Kudakwashe Rutendo.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Thank you!~

ALI HASSAN: Hi. How are you feeling, Kudakwashe?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Also nervous. I am in [[chuckling] an esteemed group of individuals.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. Well, let me ask you this because you have some insider information. You starred in this buzzy film Backspot.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Okay!

ALI HASSAN: Which also starred Devery Jacobs, who won Canada Reads in 2021.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: She is amazing.

ALI HASSAN: She was amazing. Did she give you the scoop on how you can also win Canada Reads?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: [laughing] We talked! I don't know if there's a scoop to win Canada Reads. We did talk about how at any given moment -- if you've watched the show -- it can go any way. So, there's a bit of that, a lot of tips on how to work my nerves. [laughing]

ALI HASSAN: Well, tell us which book you're championing.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: I am championing Shut Up You're Pretty by Téa Mutonji, and, yeah!

ALI HASSAN: That's great. Thank you. Across from me, [game show music] across for me at the Canada Reads table is our third panellist. He is Cree/Anishinaabe from the Chippewas of Nawash and a former star player on the Canadian National Men's Volleyball Team. He's now a successful filmmaker, CBC sports broadcaster and an advocate for Indigenous athletes and students. Welcome to Canada Reads, Dallas Soonias.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

ALI HASSAN: Well, pleasure to have you. So, how are you feeling?

DALLAS SOONIAS: I was feeling great.

ALI HASSAN: Until.

DALLAS SOONIAS: About 30 seconds ago. [Ali Hassan chuckle] I reached out to Devery Jacobs. Nothing. I heard nothing back. [everyone laughs]

ALI HASSAN: You think you're part of a community, and then --

DALLAS SOONIAS: Right.

NAHEED NENSHI: I spent hours with her.

DALLAS SOONIAS: [Kudakwashe Rutendo laughs] Everybody, okay.

ALI HASSAN: Well, Dallas, you do have an edge here, too, without extra help.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Oh, tell me, please.

ALI HASSAN: You are a fierce competitor. You're used to winning on a volleyball court. How do you, how do you plan to compete in Canada Reads?

DALLAS SOONIAS: I used to be a fierce competitor. Now, I'm just this busted dad. Nothing really works. But I think once the show starts -- whenever the cameras turn on -- I'll be ready. So, whenever the show starts, I'm going to be, I'm going to turn it on.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. Somebody should probably let, let Dallas know that we have, indeed, started. [Kudakwaske Rutendo chuckles].

DALLAS SOONIAS: Are we --

ALI HASSAN: We're here. Tell us which book you're championing?

DALLAS SOONIAS: Bad Cree [hand smacks cover] by the great Jessica Johns. Bad Cree. Bad Cree. All the, all cameras see it? Perfect.

ALI HASSAN: Thank you, Dallas. Next to Dallas is our fourth panellist. [game show music] She's based in Toronto. She lives the life of a fashion model and a "creative multi-hyphenate". She uses her love for storytelling as a brand influencer and designer, and has more than 235,000 followers on TikTok to show for it. Welcome to Canada Reads, Mirian Njoh.

MIRIAN NJOH: Thank you for having me.

ALI HASSAN: Our pleasure. How are you feeling?

MIRIAN NJOH: I'm excited.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. Okay. That's an answer that we haven't heard yet. [Mirian Njoh chuckles] You are what we call a cultural tastemaker. You're known for videos that go viral. How do you plan to use your unique style to, and bring it to these book debates?

MIRIAN NJOH: You know, I think that one thing social media teaches me is to stay on my toes and be adaptable. And that is what I'm going to do today.

ALI HASSAN: Excellent. Tell us which book you're championing.

MIRIAN NJOH: Meet Me at the Lake by Carley Fortune.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. Thank you, Mirian. [game show music] Our final panellist is on my right. We've completed the Canada Reads circle. She is a Montreal poet, screenwriter and author who's no stranger to Canada Reads. Her debut novel -- Lullabies for Little Criminals -- won the great Canadian book debate back in 2007. Known for her literary, literary acumen, she is regarded as one of Canada's finest writers. Welcome to Canada Reads, Heather O'Neill.

HEATHER O'NEILL: Hi!

ALI HASSAN: How are you feeling, Heather?

HEATHER O'NEILL: I'm in a great mood. I like, I mean, I'm just always looking to talk about books. So, it's this, the only thing that would make me happier if I knew the show is eight hours a day.

ALI HASSAN: Okay.

HEATHER O'NEILL: For a whole month. [all laugh]

ALI HASSAN: Well, the structure of this show may not be right up your alley, [Heather O'Neill laughs] But, but the content certainly is. You have, you've won Canada Reads before as an author.

HEATHER O'NEILL: Yeah, I have.

ALI HASSAN: So, how do you plan to win now as a panellist?

HEATHER O'NEILL: I, I don't know. John K. Samson was, from The Weakerthans defended my book. And he was so elegant. And he's such a wonderful person. But we're different personalities, so I think I'm just going to try and talk from my heart about how these books affected me. And I think when one talks about literature, just unusual things come out of one's mouth, so it will always be unpredictable. That's the point of talking about books.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. Well, it's a great setup. Unusual things might come out of my mouth. Okay. Thank you, Heather. [Heather O'Neill chuckle] Tell us which book you're championing.

HEATHER O'NEILL: I chose The Future by Catherine Leroux, and translated by Susan Ouriou.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. Thank you, Heather. There you have it. Our Canada Reads 2024 contenders.

[Canada Reads theme]

Opening Arguments

ALI HASSAN: Now that we know the players, it is time to learn the game. Naheed, Kudakwashe, Dallas, Mirian and Heather, we're going to go around the room. We will play a trailer for each book, and then you will each get 60 seconds to make your opening arguments. And when your time is up, I will ring the famous [the famous bell rings] Canada Reads bell.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Oh... shutters!

ALI HASSAN: Shutters! After your opening statements, it'll be time to debate. And before the day is over, you will cast your very first vote. Let's do this. [game show music] Okay, Naheed, you are up first. You're championing the illustrated book Denison Avenue by Christina Wong and Daniel Ennis. Here's the trailer.

SOUNDCLIP

[old-timey soul]

YOUNG GIRL: Wong Cho Sum has lived in Toronto since 1958. She immigrated to join her husband. In love, full of hope, in a vibrant, changing city, they built a life together on Denison Avenue. Then, a devastating accident. [care tires screech, sirens are heard] At once, her beloved was gone. [woman cries] Alone, time passes more slowly. She notices more. Hears more.

TTC ANNOUNCER: Next stop, Denison Avenue.

YOUNG GIRL: Her favourite shops are closing. Cho Sum speaks little English. She's turned away from jobs, told that she is too old. [Asian instrumental] She begins to collect cans and bottle, returning them for refund. But she can't escape the grief or that around her. The world is moving much more quickly. Her neighbourhood keeps changing and then changing again.

MAN: Honest Ed's is up for sale.

YOUNG GIRL: But on her porch -- on Denison Avenue -- two chairs remain.

ALI HASSAN: Naheed, you have 60 seconds. Why is Denison Avenue the one book all of Canada should read? [Canada Reads bell]

NAHEED NENSHI: Cho Sum is a Torontonian. She's lived there since 1958, but she's never been up the CN tower. She has never been to a Leaf's game. She has ridden the subway once in her life. For her, Toronto and Canada is her neighbourhood, where she has food she likes to eat, stores she's comfortable shopping in, faces she recognises. But now, her neighbourhood is leaving her, and she has never been more alone. Denison Avenue is an exquisite work. It is a gem. It is an incredible piece of art. It will change you. It will change how you see your neighbours, how you live your life. Daniel Iness's pictures and Christina Wong's words show off a rare, undiscovered talents. This book is going to rip your heart out. It is going to stomp on it. It is going to hand it back to you a little bit bandaged, a little bit bruised, but full of empathy. Cho Sum has to learn how to move forward. And this book -- through her journey -- will help us all carry forward. [Canada Reads bell]

ALI HASSAN: Oooooo!

MIRIAN NJOH: Wow!

NAHEED NENSHI: My family owned motels growing up, and that --

ALI HASSAN: That bell is triggering?

NAHEED NENSHI: Is bringing a lot of triggers.

ALI HASSAN: Business, businesses is coming in. All right. Thank you, Naheed. I feel like that's a book Canadians might be drawn to.

NAHEED NENSHI: Ha!

MIRIAN NJOH: Oh!

ALI HASSAN: That's what we call a pun in the business. All right, Kudakwashe, you are up. You're championing the short story collection Shut Up You're Pretty by Téa Mutonji. Let's pray, let's play the trailer.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: [R&B] In Galloway, life can be tough. [a basketball bounces, a girl speaks indiscernible] But Loli is a survivor. Forced to grow up too fast, longing for a sense of security, a sense of self, she ventures out into the neighbourhood and the world beyond its boundaries. But chaos and uncertainty follow her. [rain and thunder] Yearning for a deep connection, she stumbles into uncharted territory. Slowly, she peels back the layers of her identity, femininity and sexuality. [a lighter flicks, as a breath is released] as the shadows of grief, violence [a man grunts, pills fall out of a bottle] and addiction creep into her life, Loli [dissonant note] turns to face the light and embraces the beauty in the struggle. [birdsong]

ALI HASSAN: Kudakwashe, 60 seconds are on the clock. Why is Shut Up You're Pretty the one book that all of Canada should read? [Canada Reads bell]

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Canadians are familiar with the term mosaic, how our identity is not comprised of one thing, but many distinct portraits of life and culture. Shut Up You're Pretty is a glance into such experience. Sometimes fraught, sometimes funny, but always polarizing. It's just a vivid look into Congolese immigrant Loli's life. And while not universalizing Black Canadian experience, it remains honest, accessible and relatable. Through Loli, we experience loss, love and searching -- all things readers crave. Many women and female-presenting folks will see in its colour glass the sheen of shared experience. But for others, this confrontation with three-dimensional life serves as a reminder of the mosaic we all contribute to. Bright and potent, Shut Up You're Pretty is a book to fall headfirst into, exploring Loli's world through the brilliant mode of interconnected short stories. Shut Up You're Pretty is one book to carry us forward through negotiating our past.

ALI HASSAN: You still had a few seconds, but I'm going to ring this anyway. [Canada Reads bell] [Kudakwashe Rutendo laughs] Thank you very much.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: I feel great!

ALI HASSAN: Good question.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Well done. Well done.

ALI HASSAN: You'll like this book. It's pretty powerful.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: It is.

ALI HASSAN: Thank you. Dallas, you are next. You are championing the novel Bad Cree by Jessica Johns. Let's check out the trailer.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: Mackenzie can't shake the nightmares. Every night, it's the same thing. [crickets] A relentless murder of crows attacking her sister Sabrina's body. [wings beat, as crows squawk] But the lines between the dreams and the waking world start to blur. [a woman wakes up with a gasp, followed by deep breaths] So Mackenzie returns to her northern Alberta hometown looking for answers. [instrumental] There -- in the embrace of her family -- she begins to heal. [birdsong] Letting go of the guilt, anger and pain isn't easy. But with dark forces threatening to swallow her whole, [tribal drum] Mackenzie must fight to reconcile with her family, her traditions, the land and herself.

ALI HASSAN: Dallas, you have 60 seconds. Why is Bad Cree the one book that all of Canada should read?

[Canada Reads bell]

DALLAS SOONIAS: First of all, time is a colonial construct. How dare you! Moving on, [clears throat] Dances with Wolves, The Last of the Mohicans, Pocahontas is probably the worst offender of these sorts of things. These are all white saviour stories. And they've been fed to the general public for, like, at least 100 years. Bad Cree is the antidote to that. There was a system in place for well over 100 years to break apart the nucleus of the Indigenous family. And this book is about an a strange, estranged... that's the word, right? Indigenous family coming together to solve something horrific. The TRC call to action 84 calls for Indigenous representation in this space. And this book is exactly that. It's written by a nehiyaw in a nehiyaw way. And more of a web versus a list. So, I think it's perfect for right now to somewhat right the wrongs of the past. How much time do I got?

ALI HASSAN: Five seconds.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Should we talk about the coat? [several panellists laugh] [Canada Reads bell rings].

DALLAS SOONIAS: Okay

ALI HASSAN: Time is also a Canada Reads construct. My, my, my apologies. Bad Cree sounds all good. Thank you, Dallas. Mirian, your turn. You are championing the novel Meet Me at the Lake by Carly Fortune. Let's roll the trailer.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: It's a hot and steamy summer day in Toronto. [a bell rings] When a woman named Fern meets a man named Will. [romantic music] What happens next is 24 magical hours in the city. Something special. [a woman laughs] That night, Fern makes a request. Meet me at the lake. Fern waits. [water sloshes] And waits. But Will vanishes. [birdsong] Ten years later, a lakeside resort in northern Ontario. Fern runs the place and keeps thinking about the past. [bell] And with a twist of fate, Will reappears. That familiar spark ignites. A second chance at love beckons. [deep breaths] But should they dive in?

ALI HASSAN: Mirian, 60 seconds are on the clock. Why is Meet Me at the Lake the one book all of Canada should read? [Canada Reads bell]

MIRIAN NJOH: Meet Me at the Lake shares many of the same topics found in the other books here, from difficult mother-daughter relationships, to loss and grief, to the importance of family and community. But the key difference that separates it is that within the context of the romance genre, it explores all of these challenging themes while still giving readers the comfort, satisfaction and promise of hope and eventual happy endings. Romance novels found me at a time in my life when love, connection and passion were scarce, and transported me to worlds where these things exist in abundance. They offer not just a healthy escape but also healing. For many, they are transformative, leading us to examine ourselves and our closest relationships. They inspire us to dream and leave us with the courage, optimism and emotional bandwidth to act on those desires. They, they inspired me to change the trajectory of my life. That is how a book carries you forward. [Canada Reads bell]

ALI HASSAN: Okay. Thank you, Mirian. It sounds like a good book to dive into. [several panellists chuckle] Heather, you are on my right, making me, Dallas coming in late on that guffaw, making you the final, you're championing the novel The Future by Catherine Leroux, translated by Susan Ouriou. Here's the trailer.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: [cannon fire] The French arrived in the 18th century in what's now known as the city of Detroit. But what if they never left? In another time -- another space -- Detroit is now Fort De Trois. It once gleamed with greenery. It now whispers of darkness, drugs and despair. [people speak indiscernible] Gloria moves into the neighbourhood, grieving her lost daughter, holding out hope for her missing grandchildren. On the outskirts of town -- along the Rouge River -- the flora is alive. The fauna are alive. Here, children roam wild, run free. [bright piano] This is the future where we dream of beauty, of community, where green grows. Hope springs anew. Where wild children's laughter echoes through the trees. [children laughing]

ALI HASSAN: Heather, you have 60 seconds. Why is The Future the one book that all of Canada should read?

[Canada Reads bell]

HEATHER O'NEILL: You know -- as you saw in the trailer -- they were talking about the wild children, and Katherine Leroux creates this group of, of children who've found each other. And I responded to that so much because I had been run away from an abusive home as a child. And that was something lost children do. We just invariably look for each other because it's a human desire to create community and family. And one of the ways that Catherine Leroux illustrates this intimacy is she actually creates a dialogue -- a new dialect and language that the children speak to each other in the woods -- which is half-butchered French, half fairy tale. And that's what Leroux does. Her, her ability to just use the, the width of poetic techniques. In her book, she uses imagery, metaphor, repetition, syntax. And the point of doing that is to expand the consciousness to break down constructs. That's what writers do. And with that, she's enabling us to see what we've been trained to see as ugly as beautiful. And that the voices that were waiting from the future, they're already here, but in the margins. [Canada Reads bell]

ALI HASSAN: Thank you, Heather. The Future is definitely present on Canada Reads. There you have it. [crosstalk] We're retiring it. We're retiring it. [Heather O'Neill chuckles] But you needed to taste it out of the gate. The titles in the running for Canada Reads 2024. [game show music] Denison Avenue by Cristina Wang and Daniel Innes, chosen by Naheed Nenshi. Shut Up You're Pretty by Téa Mutonji, backed by Kudakwashe Rutendo. Bad Cree by Jessica Johns, selected by Dallas Soonias. Meet Me at the Lake by Carley Fortune, chosen by Mirian Njoh. And The Future by Catherine Leroux, translated by Susan Ouriou and championed by Heather O'Neill. There are five books on the table, each with the potential to carry us forward. And by the end of the week, one will be your winner. By the end of today, one will be eliminated. I'm your host, Ali Hassan. This is Canada Reads on CBC and Sirius XM. It's time to debate.

[hard rock theme]

Debate Round One

ALI HASSAN: Right. Panellists around the table each experienced the five books in different ways. Some turned to the pages of the physical book. Others read on an electronic device. Some listened to the audiobook versions. No matter how you read, it is all about the story. Great stories draw us in, and they hold our attention. And so the question to you panellists is this: which book does the best job of telling a great story? Naheed, I'm going to ask you first.

NAHEED NENSHI: Well, you know, the really great thing about this year's crop of books is they're completely different. You know, Meet Me at the Lake is plot and character-driven. The Future sort of is more meditative on a bunch of things as we go through. Of course, I think that Denison Avenue tells the best story, though I think all of these stories are great. You know, Bad Cree is a gripping horror story that you can't put down. Shut Up You're Pretty makes you want to fill in the blanks between the short stories on what has happened in Loli's life. But I will tell you, everyone who has read Denison Avenue has gotten a bit mad at me because the first 100 pages or so are just emotionally devastating. But what I thought was fascinating by this -- and it's really Cristina Wong's craft as a writer -- is that you don't even know these characters. You've barely met them. And yet, you are so deeply ingrained in their lives and the horrible things that are happening that you are weeping on the subway as you're reading this. And to me, that's the story that is so interesting. It moves real fast, and then it moves real slow. And at the same time, you are gripped with this person's story. And, and, to me, that's what keeps the story going.

ALI HASSAN: Out of respect for our radio listeners, I'm going to just say, maybe you don't slap caress your book. The listeners will write in about that.

NAHEED NENSHI: I can't pound my table while Dallas talks?! [several panellists laugh]

ALI HASSAN: Well, selectively, I suppose. Kudakwashe, let me get you in on that. What are your thoughts about what Naheed said? And the question about which book does the best job at telling a great story?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Yeah. I think Denison Avenue was very thought-provoking. And I do, one of the things I admire most about the story is how there's so many different aspects melded into it. You're getting citizen application approval letters in the story. There's a Bathurst wish list written in Robert's writing from the meeting they attended on the changes going on in the community, and I think that's very comprehensive. So, I think in that way, it's Naheed was very spot on. But, of course.

ALI HASSAN: Of course.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Of course, I'm rooting for my own book for the best, like, mode of storytelling. And just what, what's, how it was communicated. For me, I think what was most interesting and thought-provoking for Shut Up You're Pretty is it's a short story collection, but it approaches it in a different way. Typically, short stories are, they're self-completing or self-fulfilling. Within each short story, there's a beginning, an end and maybe a meaning that you derive. Shut Up You're Pretty doesn't necessarily have that in that same way because they're all interconnected. And with that, you get the, Loli's history. But also, you get the implied connection between the stories. And one of the benefits is instead of having to complete themselves within a short story, sometimes the completing moment is found throughout. The thread continues throughout. Also, readers have object permanence. We know that there's histories taking place between the gaps in the story, and I think that's very powerful. You still get the implied there's something happening. But then we also get the interconnection as well. So we can kind of map Loli's motivations, which I thought was amazing and super powerful.

ALI HASSAN: I don't mean to go around the table like this, but Dallas, you are nodding and, and it's, it's inviting. So, I'm going to ask you what, what your thoughts are on what you've heard.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Oh, I agree with everything you said, I think --

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Thank you! [chuckling]

DALLAS SOONIAS: No, the story, like, it's, it's a series of short stories, but there is a through line when you step back and look at it, it's a complete story, even though the time jumps all over the place. And I know it's non-fiction, but I thought it was. I thought it was a person's life, and it's only after I was like, oh, this, somebody made this up. But it seems like very, a wonderful book. Bad Cree [smacks book] it's told in a nehiyaw fashion. And when I say that, I mean it speeds up, slows down and it goes kind of all over the place in terms of the pacing. [clears throat] But I think that's something that's great about the book because this is how aunties tell stories. This is how a kôhkom will tell a story, having coffee around the table. So, it's not always the best thing to try to fit a book into like a colonial way of doing it. That's why it's written more like a web. And it is a horror. And it's a story of family. It's a story of coming of age. It's, it's not put into one box, and I think that's a huge strength of the book. It's a nehiyaw way of telling a story.

ALI HASSAN: Yeah. Heather, I see some flexing and rubbing of your fingers. Perhaps you'd like to weigh in?

HEATHER O'NEILL: Oh, certainly. One of the, what Dallas was talking about when he was talking about the kôhkom. There was a lot of links between when I read Bad Cree at the same time as I was reading The Future and the role of grandmothers. And what was so interesting, because one of my, because really, who's who we're following the most in this book is a character named Gloria. Who has kind of allowed her daughter to disappear from her life from an opioid addiction. And it really, I mean, it was so hard for me to read that the way that, because it illustrates the way, even families we, when, when someone succumbs to an opioid addiction, we assume they're, we can throw them away and nobody owes them anything. And they're just cast aside. So, this grandmother has to return to find her missing children after her, her grandchildren after the daughter dies. And she just rediscovers what her role is and what community is. And then, I, when I was reading Bad Cree, [smacks book] I was like, oh, it's so interesting because that role of the kôhkom and the grandmother in the Cree tradition is so strong. Like, when Jessica Johns describes her death as, like, being a tree in the forest that everybody hears. And that's very similar to Gloria coming into this story. And, I mean, the reason why The Future is just a fantastic story, it really is one of, a magnificent example of the explosion of experimental literature coming out of French Canada right now, which is one reason enough to read it. But the way that it's, it has three parts structure. And even at the beginning, it's everybody's looking for these missing children, and they almost are a legend. And you see little, they come out at times. And, but when you go to the second section within the woods, it's like the language itself becomes a, like, a garden of, of, and became so metaphorical. And you're stuck. And it's all about regrowth and this idea, like, I thought, going into it as it would be a dystopia, but it's really about how disaster can be a time for us all to look at regrowth and how to rebuild community.

ALI HASSAN: Let me ask you, Mirian, I mean, some of the themes, certainly, that Heather talks about in this book are not in Meet Me at the Lake, but what are your thoughts on what Heather said, in general, about which book tells great stories here?

MIRIAN NJOH: Yeah. And it's funny because I do love when, when the books do overlap and certain themes or we get different pieces of it. And one thing I enjoyed about The Future -- and it's kind of interesting to think about it like this -- but reading The Future, you can see that there's a mother daughter relationship that is strained between Gloria and her daughter Judith. And how -- in Judith's passing -- it's like there are so many things left unsaid that Gloria's kind of grappling with. And, and it kind of happens the inverse in Meet Me at the Lake between Maggie and Fern. When Maggie passes away and Fern -- her daughter -- is left, she's the other side of that relationship. And there's so many things that she's grappling with with the relationship, things that were left unsaid or unresolved. And so, I think that, you know, a lot of the books tell stories and have their unique way, but then there's also some beautiful overlap or different perspectives that each of the stories will bring to, back to your book that you're championing. And for me, what I love about this book and what I think is going to really keep people's attention, you know, talking about how do people stay engaged with the book. The beauty of this book is that not only is it dual timeline, it's dual setting. So you're never, you never have to stay in the same place too much. We have a present day and a 10 years ago timeline. We have Toronto, and we have Muskoka. In between, you know, those four places, we dip back and forth between, between these different aspects. And we, the, as the, as you continue to go through the, through the literature, you know, things resolve themselves, things answer themselves, things flush out and become more in depth. And through it all, we have these characters Fern, Will, Maggie, Peter. And we meet them, and we get connected to them. And we, you know, we, we get emotional responses from them. Sometimes it's positive, sometimes we want to just, ugh, but the thing is, that is, it, it evokes something from us. And that's the whole point of what makes a book good. What keeps somebody engaged? Why should we read it now? Because it's going to make you feel. And that's the thing about this book is from the beginning to the end, you're going to have reactions and, and the book is going to keep you engaged with, with all of these different timelines and, and locations and things. It's going to grab you, and it'll keep you. And then, it'll gently hug you at the end.

ALI HASSAN: Yeah. Heather, you want to --

HEATHER O'NEILL: I was going to say there's a similarity, too, in The Future that, that community that's out by the lake in Muskoka, and how there's, it's like such a wonderful with elderly, and it's just like, just --.

MIRIAN NJOH: The Roses! They're adorable.

HEATHER O'NEILL: Yeah! All these people trying to bring her in. And, and this idea, and I think all of the books have an extended community. And how we just, how we put out, we don't allow elderly people to fulfil their roles that are so necessary in society. And they're all kind of in the, in a lot of the margins trying to get their way in.

MIRIAN NJOH: Yes! You know, and that's the thing about all the books is that the, each of the books, they do have elderly people that play interesting roles. Like, whether it's, you know, Gloria is the protagonist, which is unexpected, whether it's people like the Roses, who are supportive, or even seeing Cho Sum's just life. The kôhkom and the aunties. Like, everybody has, has some, isn't Mrs. Broomfield in Shut Up You're Pretty the same. She's like every --

DALLAS SOONIAS: That's right. Mama.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Mama only!

ALI HASSAN: Let me ask you this, Kudakwashe.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Yes.

ALI HASSAN: You are all finding things that you can relate to between all these books. Let me ask you a little variation on this question. Which book here does a great job at exposing you to a life, or introducing you to a life that is different from your own?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Yeah. Well, I think honestly -- first and foremost -- all the books are fantastic. They're all fantastic insight to a bunch of different communities. But when I was reading Denison Avenue, I think it was because that, you know, I'm in Toronto, and I frequent Chinatown. I go to Kensington often. And, you know, you do see, like, these ladies picking up cans and, like, recycling them. So, it was a direct insight into that. And through Cho Sum, I just really got to, I felt like I was comprehensively, like, in the mind. And I really enjoyed that because I feel like, you know, that part isn't spoken about a lot. And, you know, there's not a, I don't think there's a lot of representation in literature for that. And I thought that was, that was fantastic. And I think it's going to do a lot for the community. But yeah -- again, notwithstanding -- since I'm, I'm based here in Toronto, it felt like insight to a world that I inhabit, but that I haven't peered closer at because it was just in a different, a slightly different sphere from where I'm normally just existing.

ALI HASSAN: Okay, well, that is it for this round.

[a tense theme and a bell]

Interstitial

ALI HASSAN: All right. Panellists. Every year, Canada Reads is a great debate about five great books. As I look around the table, I do see five panellists who are engaged, and who are prepared, and excited, and perhaps a bit nervous. Although, that was about 15 minutes ago. So maybe that's changed. But to calm any potential nerves, I, I suspect that you could, you could all do with some encouragement for the days ahead. So, we've asked those who know the five books best to give you a little pep talk.

SOUNDCLIP

[ambient music]

CHRISTINA WONG: Hi, Naheed. It's Christina Wong.

DANIEL INNES: Hi, Naheed. It's Daniel Innes. Being the mayor of Calgary must have been way more difficult than talking about our book.

CHRISTINA WONG: Keep in mind where we've been, where we are and where we could be. Thank you so much. And good luck.

TÉA MUTONJI: [instrumental] Hi, Kudakwashe. You are my dream reader. I wrote Shut Up Your Pretty for me, and for you, and for people who look like we do. The way you care about everything you do as an actor, as a student, as a fully-realized Black woman, you've got this. You are exactly what Loli deserves to carry Shut Up You're Pretty forward on this Canada Reads journey.

JESSICA JOHNS: [Indigenous] [speaking Cree] Dallas, thank you for choosing Bad Cree to champion. It means the world to me that you are out there defending the honour of a queer nehiyaw. You used to face whole teams of competitive volleyball players, so you got this. Now, go out there and be antie.

CARLEY FORTUNE: [pop] Hi, Mirian. This is Carly. I'm supposed to give you a pep talk. But frankly, I don't think you need one. You've got this. People have sought help because of this book. It's explained an experience some readers didn't have a name for. Its encouraged people to reach out to a loved one. This book has made a difference. And in defending it, you're helping it reach more people.

CATHERINE LEROUX: [sombre] Hi, Heather. By now, you have read the book several times. We went to Detroit. You've seen the houses, you've seen the woods and the beauty and the ugliness. You now know The Future from the outside and the inside and from all possible angles. You are ready.

HEATHER O'NEILL: [chuckling] Oh my gosh, thank you!

ALI HASSAN: Those were the voices of this year's Canada Reads authors. Christina Wong and Daniel Innes. Téa Mutonji. Jessica Johns, Carley Fortune and Catherine Leroux. I'm Ali Hassan. This is Canada Reads on CBC and Sirius XM. Let's get back to the debates.

[heavy rock theme]

Debate Round Two

ALI HASSAN: As has been mentioned, we have a wide variety of genres this year. Romance, short story, dystopian, horror, illustrated, fiction. Different genres which will appeal to different kinds of readers. But Canada Reads is a book for all book lovers. And in fact, we see this in the reaction to the list every year. People pick up books they wouldn't normally pick up because of this show. So let's talk about that. How do these books appeal to a wide audience? Mirian, your book is the first romance book to ever appear on Canada Reads. So, let's start with you. How do these books appeal to a wide audience?

MIRIAN NJOH: Well, when we're talking about the books, I mean, I have to obviously give love to Meet Me at the Lake because I think the thing about it, and it's an honour to be the first romance novel featured. But I think the thing about it is that this is a book about interpersonal relationships. It's about human connections, human experience. It is something that you can automatically connect with. You don't have to favour a specific genre to be able to connect to this. And I think that if you, I think sometimes people have reservations about the romance genre. But the truth is, the only thing you need to do to, to get into it is to just kind of relinquish and release any kind of unfounded biases or judgements that you may have about the genre, and you can find that you will connect to it because these are human experiences. And I think that one of the beauty of, honestly, of the romance drama is that -- and featuring it on Canada Reads -- is that romance is actually the biggest fiction genre, you know, that exists. It accounts for 25 per cent of all books sold. Like, if we're talking about opening up people to, to reading and to new reading, romance is the way to go. And I think that it's a, it's a beautiful story and, and it's very gripping, so.

ALI HASSAN: Heather, your thoughts on that and on the question in general?

HEATHER O'NEILL: It's very funny because I did go into, you know, when I, when this book was on the list, I did have a lot of prejudices against the romance genre. So, and I hadn't thought about it in so long. So I, and I really was like, how do I open myself up to this genre? Then I started thinking about it. And really, you know, I went back, and I thought about Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, which was, you know, a template for the romance novel. And that novel was so revolutionary. When she wrote it, all the men were up in arms. But it was the idea that you could write about women's issues, and you didn't need a big plot or some adventure or wars. But what a woman was thinking and considering about her day was enough for the greatest fiction. So, I went in, I started reading different romances and it's funny because I had not really read, I had read them when I was a teenager. And, you know, as a child of divorce, I was like, that's terrible they end up married. Poor people. But then, as I was reading this one, I noticed all the conventions have changed. And it's not trying to find the most wealthy man. It's not about, you know, finding Mr. Big. It has become about a woman finding her equal, someone who will support her and will be her match. And that was sort of the, the sub current through modern romance. And the fact that when we're reading, and then just to be able, there's so much about women's desire, and just to have a place where women are allowed to, like, lust and, and accept that their desire is an important thing about their identity. So, you know, I, and as far as the romance readers, what I want is I want them. I want them, and I was, I was excited it was on the list just because we're going to have that huge audience listening, and they can try out new things.

ALI HASSAN: Naheed, let me bring you into this to answer that question. How do the books appeal to a wide audience?

NAHEED NENSHI: Sure. Well, I'll say a word about Meet Me at the Lake. You know, I am a cynical, old, single man, so I thought I was not in any way --

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Perfect!

NAHEED NENSHI: The target market.

ALI HASSAN: Stroking your chin as you say it to illustrate the point.

NAHEED NENSHI: But I'm so happy it's here because, you know, this is one of the bestselling books in Canada this year. And I love that Carley Fortune is using her newfound fame to really shine a light on other Canadian authors. So, I'm super happy to have, have the book here and to have this broader conversation. And -- as Heather says -- to bring in people who might love Meet Me at the Lake and have them read other things. Similarly, I didn't think I liked horror. But I couldn't put Bad Cree down because I wanted to know what was happening in this story. I want to talk a little bit about Denison Avenue in terms of appealing to a wide audience. This is a unique book. It's very different to anything else. I don't know what to call it. It's not a graphic novel. It's not really an illustrated book. If you saw the physical book, you would see that you can open it from both sides. And one half is a novel, and the other half is what I originally thought were just really beautiful ink drawings of some of the settings in the book. And I realized after talking to Christina Wong that Daniel Innes's pictures are actually the book retold. It's sort of a little Where's Waldo? You kind of follow the whole book if you read the pictures in order. It's very clever. But with Christina's writing, I hesitate to say it, but her writing is so beautiful. Her craft is so great. There are times where it feels like a prose poem. There are times where it gets into lists of things. There are found objects like a citizenship letter or a shopping list inside the book. And when I say that, it sounds weird and inaccessible, but it's so accessible. You know, the language is so to the point. I said, when we talked on The Next Chapter that, for me, it was like the first time I read Michael Ondaatje. Where there were points where I had to put the book down and just go, that was a beautiful page. I should say the one thing, though, if you're reading this book electronically, if you're using it on the Libby app through your library or whatever, I highly recommend reading it on a bigger screen -- like a tablet screen -- because you want to see the whole page at once. To see how she uses the white space and the language on the page. But nonetheless, it is super accessible. I want to say that in relation to Kudakwashe's last comments. The one book that I had the hardest time getting into was Shut Up You're Pretty because I thought, jeez, this woman has nothing to do with me. And I don't understand her choices. And when we launched the books, and I heard Kudakwashe's first pitch on Commotion, I went, ah! I need to revisit this book and really understand more about what is happening with Loli and how she's making these choices. And I realized just how accessible it was. So, I think that even though the books are completely different, all of them people will find themselves in.

ALI HASSAN: So, Kudakwashe, let me, you know, respond to that. And also, let me put that question to you. How do the books appeal to a wide audience?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: How do the books, in general, appeal to the wide audience?

ALI HASSAN: Yeah.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Okay. And to answer Naheed, I do think, yeah, that's, I, I'm glad that you brought that up. I think for a lot of people, or not necessarily a lot of people, but I have heard that some people have trouble, like, latching on and connecting. And I think part of it is because, you know, it is a very niche experience because what Téa was not trying to do at all was universalize the Black Canadian -- especially female -- experience. But what I really love about it -- and Dallas brought it up -- is it reads and it's written such that it's so potently that often people think it's a memoir. [chuckling]

DALLAS SOONIAS: Yes. Yes.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: But it's not a memoir. It's just Téa writing fantastically, and immersive, and realistically. And it's so accessible that it feels like all these events and experiences have happened. So, I was really glad that you brought that up. But also, again, like, that's why I mentioned the mosaic. I think, as Canadians, we're familiar with the term. Often, it's used to describe the makeup of us. And I think, for me, what Shut Up You're Pretty was -- as a Black woman -- it was looking through a glass that was the lens that I see my world in. And then, I'm sure for other Black women -- other female-presenting people -- you'll feel like looking through that same glass. But also, for people who aren't in those communities, it's a part of that mosaic. You're getting a look into an experience you might not be familiar with, but that doesn't make it any less valid. So, I was very eager for that. Heather.

HEATHER O'NEILL: I just have to say, I, I related to this book as an experience of a young woman, and the idea of living in a body that's objectified, and everyone telling you you have to commodify your sexuality, everything in society. I related so much to that book.

ALI HASSAN: Well, we have two minutes left. I want to make sure, Dallas, you get in on this discussion. And --

DALLAS SOONIAS: That's all we got.

ALI HASSAN: [Kudakwashe Rutendo chuckles] I mean, let's see what we can do with it, you know?

DALLAS SOONIAS: Cool. Where to start, man? We just went around the table, talked about everything. Where do you want me to start?

ALI HASSAN: The question is, how do these books appeal to a wide audience? You can answer that. You can answer something you've, you've heard addressed in the last few minutes.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Okay. I'll try to condense things. I loved the book. It's, it reminded me not unlike growing --

ALI HASSAN: The book is Shut Up You're Pretty.

DALLAS SOONIAS: That's right. Radio! Shut Up You're Pretty. It's, I couldn't identify with the, with growing up female, but just being a marginalized person, growing up that way, I totally, I get the things that the characters were going through. Christina Wong is clearly a genius. She's a multi-faceted artist, and I told her as such. The book is beyond a novel. It's, it's a piece of art. As someone dyslexic, it's wonderful to read things that are all over the page. It kept me engaged.

NAHEED NENSHI: You listened to the audiobook. How did you find that versus the pictures?

DALLAS SOONIAS: I did not. I did not. That's the only book I read.

NAHEED NENSHI: Oh.

DALLAS SOONIAS: And I did have to put it down. Not because I couldn't read it because it's put together in a way that's good for a dyslexic person. But because the audiobook was a little slow, and I wanted to read it. I wanted to, I wanted to get it done. Bad Cree.

ALI HASSAN: Yeah.

DALLAS SOONIAS: It will, it appeals to a wider audience because it's a, it's a, it's a story that everybody goes through regardless of the culture. It's just told through the lens of an Indigenous family. And I think it's very necessary because there's been romanticized versions that have been told in white saviour stories, where this is how a nehiyaw family might deal with a situation like this. It's obviously very fictitious, but I think it's a, it's, it's a little sugar with the medicine into understanding how Indigenous people operate.

ALI HASSAN: Okay.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Specifically, the nehiyaw. It's not a pan-Indian story.

ALI HASSAN: All right. That is it for this round. [game show music] Thank you.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Sorry, ran out of time.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: It goes so fast!

ALI HASSAN: It's, it's I, I, I handcuffed you.

Final Statement

ALI HASSAN: [game show music] Well, we are almost at the end of Day One, and that means it's almost time for our very first elimination. Not just yet. I'm going to give you all a chance to respond to what's been said -- a final word before we head into the votes. And so, we'll go around the table in the same order that we did at the beginning of the show. That means, Naheed, you are up first. Your final word, you have 30 seconds. [Canada Reads bell]

NAHEED NENSHI: I just want to say that I am so excited that we found this book that only a few hundred people had looked at before Canada Reads. We went into this week with the fourth week in a row as the number one bestselling book in Canada, which I'm super excited about because I will tell you, Canada needs to read this book for all the reasons we talked about. But additionally, because you want to say that you read Christina Wong's first book. [Canada Reads bell]

DALLAS SOONIAS: My man can Sell! [Kudakwashe Rutendo chuckles]

ALI HASSAN: Thank you, Naheed. Okay, Kudakwashe, time for your last word. Thirty seconds are on the clock. [Canada Reads bell]

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Yeah, my last word is that I think art and poetry, what a lot of them have in common is that they are necessitated into making us feel something. In my mind, that's the paradigm of good art. And whether that something is a disruption, whether it is longing, whether it is hurt or happiness, none of them are base feelings in comparison to something else. And we need that disruption, that confront, confrontation with our humanity in order to grow. So sometimes, in experiences that we feel are jarring or that we feel affect us, those are the ones we need to seek the most. [Canada Reads bell]

ALI HASSAN: Very nice. Thank you, Kudakwashe. [Kudakwashe Rutendo and Mirian Njoh chuckle] Dallas, 30 seconds for your final word. [Canada Reads bell]

DALLAS SOONIAS: The theme of the show... what is it? [several panellists chuckle] One book to carry us forward. This is a book, I've talked about the collective, about the community. It's not about building I or me as the individual to go forward and conquer or whatever. It's about carrying us forward. I think it's perfect for the theme of this year's show.

ALI HASSAN: A generous amount of time left. Thank you. [Canada Reads bell] All right, Mirian, it's your turn. You have 30 seconds. [Canada Reads bell]

MIRIAN NJOH: The romance genre is the publishing industry. Romance readers are avid, and they're the most open-minded readers of all types of readers. Canada Reads should not just be about catering to the community that already reads and is already engaged with literature. It should be about converting new readers, people who haven't read since high school. How do they find reading fun and engaging? It is through romance. Romance is a gateway that creates readers and is going to cultivate readers. And that's what I think we should be doing, is, is growing the community and exposing them to new things. Meet Me at the Lake does that. [Canada Reads bell]

ALI HASSAN: Thank you, Mirian. Heather, it's your turn. You have 30 seconds. [Canada Reads bell]

HEATHER O'NEILL: I just wanted to mention that this is a book in translation. And a lot of, also, Denison Avenue and Bad Cree both use words from different languages, and I think we have to let go of this notion that Canada is just an English-speaking country. It's diverse. There's going to be not only books in French but all sorts of other books in languages that will be translated. And it's for us as Canadians to accept translated literature as our own. And also, even the way English, English moves in different ways by whichever language it touches. [Canada Reads bell]

ALI HASSAN: All right. Thank you, Heather. All right, panellists. That's it for today's debates.

The Vote

ALI HASSAN: It is time to vote. You have ballots in front of you, panellists.

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Oh no!

ALI HASSAN: Please mark an "X" beside the book that you want to eliminate from the competition. Once you have voted, Charlene from the Canada Reads team will take your ballot. I want to remind you, even though you are all students of Canada Reads, a good reminder that there are no secret ballots on Canada Reads. Which title will be the first to go?

NAHEED NENSHI: It's hard.

Will it be Denison Avenue, by Christina Wong and Daniel Innes?

HEATHER O'NEILL: I don't want to do it.

ALI HASSAN: Naheed Nenshi is championing that title. Will it be Shut Up You're Pretty by Téa Mutonji? The short story collection was selected by Kudakwashe Rutendo. Will it be Bad Cree by Jessica Johns? Dallas Soonias is supporting that novel. Will it be Meet Me at the Lake by Carley Fortune? That book is being championed by Mirian Njoh. Or will it be The Future by Catherine Leroux, translated by Susan Ouriou? That title was chosen by Heather O'Neill. I will say, for our radio audience at home, this is a highly anticipated moment, but it always comes very quickly. And you feel that at the table. And there was a variety of different breaths being taken and time being taken with the vote. Not everybody got their vote out immediately. Some of you probably knew how you were going to vote on Day One. Some of you might have had thoughts, you know, that changed over the course of this debate. I should also mention -- not to put any undue pressure on anyone -- but this moment and, and this, this show is being watched on CBC television, on CBC Gem.

DALLAS SOONIAS: How's our numbers? You got 'em? [Kudakwashe Rutendo chuckles]

ALI HASSAN: Numbers. I'm going to get that information for you very soon. By the way, we're on CBC Listen, CBC Books and, of course, the podcast version. Many watch parties happening across this country as well. Thank you, Charlene. I have the ballots in hand. [music grows more tense] Okay. Let's start with you, Naheed Nenshi. How did you vote?

NAHEED NENSHI: I voted to eliminate Meet Me at the Lake. [Kudakwashe Rutendo chuckles]

ALI HASSAN: Okay. One vote against Meet Me at the Lake. Dallas Soonias, how did you vote?

DALLAS SOONIAS: I think I voted for Meet Me at the Lake, but I just freaked out that I hit the wrong thing. Did I do it?

ALI HASSAN: Not according to this.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Okay! I'm dyslexic. [multiple panellists laugh] And I'm telling you in the pressure situations, I'm sorry Char. I'm sorry, everybody.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. That's two votes against Meet Me at the Lake. Kudakwashe Rutendo, how did you vote?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: I'm sorry to say this; I voted for Meet Me at the Lake.

MIRIAN NJOH: Okay. [chuckle]

ALI HASSAN: With three votes against it, that does mean that Meet Me at the Lake has been eliminated. [tense game show music swells] Mirian Njoh, I can ask you what you are, how did you vote?

MIRIAN NJOH: It was really hard, but I voted for The Future.

ALI HASSAN: Okay. And Heather O'Neill. Meet Me --

HEATHER O'NEILL: Meet Me at the Lake.

ALI HASSAN: At the lake as well. Okay. Well, we will discuss this in some detail. I, you know, this is, this is what Day One's all about. Not, not a great feeling. And Mirian came in with, you know, nothing but positivity as well. But, I will say that, you know, there are many past Day One eliminations that, Alice Monroe, Margaret Atwood, Mordecai Richler. You know, they, they did stuff with their career. You're a free agent. And that means something. We'll get into that momentarily. But we do say goodbye now to Meet Me at the Lake. And, we're also saying goodbye to the folks who are listening live on, on CBC Radio right now. If you're online or if you're watching us on, on television, we have a few more minutes with our panellists. But, but that is, that is, that is our Day One. [Canada Reads theme] There are four books left. Those books are: The Future, by Catherine Leroux; Shut Up You're Pretty, by Téa Mutonji; Bad Cree by Jessica Johns and Denison Avenue, by Christina Wong. We have three dates and three eliminations to go until we find the one book that all of Canada should read.

[theme continues]

ALI HASSAN: Debate is over. We're going to talk about what went down today. Mirian Njoh -- first things first -- I want to ask, you know, what are you feeling right now?

MIRIAN NJOH: I mean, everybody knew this was the underdog book coming in. I don't think that that's a surprise. I think people don't really tend to give romance the respect that it deserves -- especially considering the way that it performs out in the actual world -- the numbers it does for, for books. But I also understood that a lot, a lot of times, Canada Reads is people have certain expectations that they feel that this platform needs to, needs to provide for the books that it highlights. And I knew that that was going to be a challenge. But I think that, at the end of the day, obviously, you know, maybe this particular moment wasn't ready to, to kind of connect with the fact that romance is a dominating force in among readers and in, in publishing. And I hope that maybe in the future, we'll be having different conversations, and it'll be getting the respect and the value that it does deserve and the value that it brings to people. But you know what? Maybe, maybe I'm just a pioneer. Maybe I was too early. I understand that. And the numbers don't lie. The numbers don't lie. Romance does numbers whether we --

ALI HASSAN: Well, as you speak about numbers, Mirian, you know, I don't want to diminish how you're feeling right now in any way, but, but the numbers have already spoken. As far as Canada Reads goes this week --

MIRIAN NJOH: Yeah. Yeah.

ALI HASSAN: Launches all of these books into a bestseller status, and it is definitely a win for everybody involved -- from all of you to the authors. Is there, is something you'd like to say to Carley Fortune?

MIRIAN NJOH: I mean, I think, to me, I would just say thank you so much for creating this beautiful work. And I know that Carley is so busy. She's already on her fourth book. To me, Carley is already a winner. The fact that she's accomplished what she's accomplished in the few years that she's been writing. Like, you are already a winner. So, thank you.

ALI HASSAN: All right. Kudakwashe, let me ask you this. So we, you know, this last few minutes, there's almost like a feeling of a pile-on on the book because of the votes against it, whether it's this many or few votes, however it goes, you know, the book, it feels like there's a loss. So, typically at the, you know, in this last chunk of the show, we like to talk about something positive about the book. So you, you did mention some of this stuff. So, I'll ask you again. Meet Me at the Lake -- although you voted it off -- what did you feel that it was positive that you brought to the table?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO: Yeah! I also agree with Mirian. Romance is one of the many genres that dominates the publishing industry. So, I do also think sometimes in critique of the romance genre, it does fall a bit misogynistic. So, I want to be very careful to make sure that's not at all where it's going to. Meet Me at the Lake, it does so many fantastic things. And one of my favourite things about the romance genre is that there's this, there's this idea of possibility. Romance is a genre in which you turn around, and the person you want to see is there. Like, it's a predictability, it's a safety, it's a lulling and a softness that romance has. And that, like, just surrounds the reader. So, I really, really love that in Meet Me at the Lake. Like, you always know that when they turn around, the person that they want to see most is there, and that they're gonna find their way back to each other at the end. I think there's such a safety in that, and there's something cozy about that which I really enjoy.

ALI HASSAN: Naheed, your thoughts.

NAHEED NENSHI: You know, I asked a bunch of friends who are romance novel enthusiasts to say, okay, this is a romance novel. Is it a good romance novel? And what I really heard back was that Carley Fortune is a master at this craft. And a lot of people love this book. A lot of people loved her first book is it Every Summer After?

KUDAKWASHE RUTENDO AND MIRIAN NJOH: Yeah.

HEATHER O'NEILL: It's great.

NAHEED NENSHI: Which is next on my reading list after Canada Reads. Because I just want to say her craft is great. I'll tell you one thing I loved. One thing I loved is that she always -- Fern always -- calls Will by his full name -- Will Baxter. And to me, there's so much under that says she's not seeing him as a real person at the beginning. She's seeing him as a construct in her mind of what the perfect Will Baxter is. And that's just one example of really the incredible cleverness of this book. And I tell you, if she's working on book four, I want Peter's story. [multiple panellists laugh]

MIRIAN NJOH: Right?!

NAHEED NENSHI: I want to know why Peter decided to have that life, and what's, what's in the future for him.

MIRIAN NJOH: Peter forever.

ALI HASSAN: All right. Dallas, again, I apologize, 30 seconds, 35 seconds.

DALLAS SOONIAS: Oh good!

ALI HASSAN: Your final thoughts? Meet Me at the Lake, something positive about the book that you can take away from it.

DALLAS SOONIAS: It had a lovely ending. It's a story about the family coming together. They're going to do new things, grow together. It was a nice way to end the book. It left me going with, you know, that, that breath you, [swoony breath] when it was over. I won't cry. I won't cry. I'm, like, super tough.

MIRIAN NJOH: You got a little misty?

ALI HASSAN: Your toughness has never been called into question, except when Jessica Johns --

DALLAS SOONIAS: Except for my wife and Jessica.

ALI HASSAN: Yes, of course. Well, we all have our weak spots. Jessica knew yours. All right, well, you know, that is our day. That is Day One. And that is a wrap on Canada Reads today. [Canada Reads theme] I want to say a thank you to our panellists. Naheed Nenshi, who is defending Denison Avenue. And Dallas Soonias, who is defending Bad Cree. Kudakwashe Rutendo was defending Shut Up You're Pretty. And Heather O'Neill, who is defending The Future. You will all be back tomorrow. You are obligated to be back tomorrow. No escaping. And then, we'll see you, of course, tomorrow. When, Mirain Njoh, you are a free agent. And we'll see you all then as well. I'm Ali Hassan. Until then, read on, Canada. [theme intensifies]

Canada Reads 2024 Day One Transcript

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