Is Drake still a hip-hop artist?

This past weekend, Yasiin Bey — the rapper formerly known as Mos Def — gave a hot take regarding Canadian music megastar Drake on The Cutting Room Floor podcast. 

When the host asked him if Drake is hip-hop, he responded with: "Drake's pop to me. In the sense, like, if I was in Target in Houston and I heard a Drake song … it feels like a lot of his music is compatible with shopping. Commercial music."

This isn't the only hip-hop drama of 2024. A couple of weeks ago, comedian Katt Williams went viral for his appearance on ESPN correspondent Shannon Sharpe's podcast Club Shay Shay where he dragged a whole slew of celebrities, including Kanye West, Diddy and Ludacris.

Comedian Marlon Palmer and culture critics A. Harmony and David Dennis Jr. join host Elamin Abdelmahmoud to discuss Drake's status in hip-hop.

We've included some highlights below, edited for length and clarity. For the full discussion, plus conversations on Ava DuVernay's new film Origin and the J-Lo trailer that's got the internet confused, listen and follow the Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud podcast on your favourite podcast player.

LISTEN | Today's episode on YouTube:

Elamin: We're going to start with you, Marlon, on this one. What was your initial reaction when you saw what was said about Drake?

Marlon: It was very disappointing to see another old head succumb to internet clout, because that's exactly what it was. As a seasoned vet, he should have known when he was being pushed into a clouty answer, and she asked that strictly for engagement because Drake has nothing to do with him. Drake opened for the man in 2007. They haven't talked since, so it was weird to see that. 

But also it's expected these days. Drake is engagement. You say his name and everything goes up for you. All the metrics. So I understood it and I also was confused at why being played in a shopping mall is a diss.

Elamin: David, OK, there's a lot to get into this debate, but what are some of the arguments you've seen for the team that says Drake is not hip-hop? 

David: Mos Def is for the people who think that Drake is not hip-hop, but I'm not one of them. I think Drake is in a corner of hip-hop that is more poppy, but he is in the court of hip-hop. I mean, there was an argument that Drake does make music that is on a different spectrum than Mos Def. They sound like two different genres of music for a lot of people. There's an argument that Drake goes against a lot of the conventions of what we think about hip-hop.

Somebody like Drake would not have been considered welcome into a hip-hop space 20 or 30 years ago. But because of the sheer talent and the pop nature and the popularity of it, he has opened that, for better or for worse. 

Elamin: I mean, there's an argument that hip-hop or what hip-hop was has expanded into pop territory and then taken it over. And I am interested in that argument, but I am interested in what point does it stop diluting the core of hip-hop and become something else entirely. Harmony, you're a rap artist yourself. What side of this debate do you fall on?

A. Harmony: So, to me, Drake is a pop star who raps much of the time. And I want to be clear: I agree with Marlon that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being played in a shopping mall. And that's the part of the argument that's kind of peculiar to me. Like, what's wrong with being pop? I do think, though, that Drake's entire approach, even though he raps, is an element of hip-hop, he appeals to the masses on purpose, which is completely frowned upon in hip-hop culture. 

He gives just enough to people to give them the illusion, like, "I'm part of the culture. I listen to rap music, too. I listen to Drake." But really, he's not digging any deeper than just surface level rapping, surface level dancehall, surface level dance. And he gives the people what they want, which is the definition of pop.

Marlon: This is the problem. Y''all want to keep hip-hop in a basement. We fought to make this the No. 1 genre in the world, and it is now. And it has been because of one man named Drake. Without Drake, a lot of these guys do not have the platforms they do.

A. Harmony: I think Drake's Blackness is what lent him credibility in hip-hop and why we don't put him in the pop category. And why can't we expand beyond hip-hop and R&B and the few genres that they place all Black people who are making all kinds of different music in. Why can't we expand outside of those boxes? And again, it brings me to that argument: What's wrong with Drake being pop? Why doesn't he just own that? He is a pop star and he does it very well. Why not just own that with pride?

You can listen to the full discussion from today's show on CBC Listen or on our podcast, Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud, available wherever you get your podcasts.

Panel produced by Ty Callender